[Congressional Record (Bound Edition), Volume 147 (2001), Part 4]
[Senate]
[Page 5078]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]



                       SURVIVING SCHOOL VIOLENCE

  Mr. LEVIN. Mr. President, earlier this week, a Today Show reporter 
interviewed Mr. Bob Stuber, a former police officer from California, 
who maintains a website called Escapeschool.com. Mr. Stuber's website 
gives advice to students who may one day find themselves caught in the 
crossfire of a shooting at school. The former police officer offers 
practical information in this day and age, such as what gunfire sounds 
like, what to do when a student hears gunfire, and what a student 
should look for in a hiding place.
  It is simply heart breaking that this type of advice is even 
necessary. Yet, students in school are increasingly worried for their 
safety. Escapeschool.com is a valuable resource because in addition to 
giving advice to students, it also gives advice to schools and 
communities to try to prevent such shootings, and information for 
parents who want to communicate with their children about these events.
  I encourage students and parents to look at this website and talk to 
each other about some of the dangers associated with guns. I also 
encourage my colleagues to look at the website with the hope that we in 
Congress can restart a dialogue about how to limit youth access to guns 
and reduce such shootings in American schools.
  I ask consent to print in the Record excerpts from the transcript of 
the interview with Mr. Bob Stuber.
  There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in 
the Record, as follows:

  Bob Stuber Discusses His Escapeschool.com Program to Teach Children 
                  What To Do During a School Shooting

  (Soledad O'Brien, co-host)
       O'Brien. You give very specific advice. I want to get into 
     some of it. If there is a shooting at a school, what should a 
     student do?
       Mr. Stuber. One of the very first things a student needs to 
     know is that it's very hard to tell the difference between 
     firecrackers and gunfire. Lots of times when you hear about 
     these reports, you hear people say, `I thought it was 
     firecrackers. I went to see, and then I saw a shooter.' If 
     you hear a sound, and you're not sure what it is, assume it 
     could be gunfire and begin to take that defensive posture. It 
     doesn't mean you have to jump under a table, just start 
     thinking that way. That's the very first thing they need to 
     know.
       O'Brien. If it becomes clear that it is gunfire, should a 
     student run?
       Mr. Stuber. Absolutely! There are certain policies in place 
     in some of the schools where under the best case scenario, 
     they want them to go to a certain room and hide, and if you 
     can do that, that's fine. But most of the time, you can't. 
     Then we start talking about running. You want to keep this 
     thing logical. Kids need to know how to run. For instance. . 
     .
       O'Brien. Where to run.
       Mr. Stuber. Right. Where you--you don't want to run in a 
     straight line. You want to either run in a zigzag fashion or 
     you want to turn a corner because bullets don't turn corners. 
     If you're going to hide and you pick a car, you want to hide 
     at the front of the car where the engine block is, because 
     that can stop a bullet. The middle of the car, the back of 
     the car can't. Those little tips, and they're not 
     frightening, those little tips are the things that make a 
     difference.
       O'Brien. Do you think a student should hide in a--in a 
     shooting?
       Mr. Stuber. Yeah, absolutely. What we think students should 
     do first of all is--is, know the difference between cover and 
     concealment. What they want to find is cover. For instance, a 
     big tree with a giant trunk, that's cover. That will hide you 
     and protect you. A hedge is concealment. It will hide you, 
     but it won't protect you. Students have to find a place to 
     hide where they can be safe. So the very first thing you 
     begin to teach them, what to look for in a hiding spot.
       O'Brien. If students are inside the classroom, is the best 
     advice to stay inside the classroom? Or is the best advice to 
     leave that classroom as soon as possible?
       Mr. Stuber. It really--it really depends. There is no 
     absolutes. If you can stay in that classroom, the teacher can 
     lock the door. You can line up against the--the opposite 
     wall, and--and you're going to be safe, that's fine. But if 
     this action is coming down the hall, and it's coming to your 
     classroom, you have to get out of there. So then you have to 
     know, how should I get out? Should I go down the hall or 
     should I go to the window, try to escape through the window? 
     You know, we work with kids all the time. We--we set 
     scenarios up. In one case I remember, we had kids go to the 
     window to make an exit and because the windows wouldn't open, 
     they naturally said, `Well, we have to go down the hall.' 
     They didn't think they could break the window and make an 
     exit. You have to tell them that.
       O'Brien. In one recent school shooting, there was an armed 
     officer inside the school which managed to bring the shooting 
     to a close pretty quickly.
       Mr. Stuber. Right.
       O'Brien. Do you think then that that's an indication that 
     that's the way to go? Schools should have armed officers in 
     the hallways?
       Mr. Stuber. Well, you know, in the last two shootings, it 
     kind of helped out, but there is no strong evidence that says 
     it's a preventive tool. It was good that they were there. I'm 
     not so sure schools have to go in that direction. There's so 
     little data right now, you can't make a conclusive 
     observation. So right now what we're trying to center on is 
     the techniques that the students themselves can practice 
     while all the data is being collected to make definitive 
     prevention prognosis.
       O'Brien. It seems critical that students report any threats 
     that they hear. And yet time and time again, we hear that 
     they don't. Oh, there were threats. They didn't think it was 
     important.
       Mr. Stuber. Right.
       O'Brien. They didn't believe them. How do you make the 
     threats actually get to the notice of the teachers?
       Mr. Stuber. That is a big deal. You know, in almost every 
     one of these shootings there has been threats, rumors or 
     jokes. And some students haven't reported them. One of the 
     reasons some students give is that there was no system for 
     reporting anonymously. Schools have to provide a system where 
     the student can report anonymously. It--because if the person 
     finds out that you're the one that reported him, you're--you 
     may end up getting in more trouble. So students are reluctant 
     to report. They're also thinking, `Well, I'm going to get my 
     friend in trouble.' Look, it's like being at the airport. No 
     jokes allowed in this area. Parents and schools have to tell 
     them, report. Even a joke, you have to report.
       O'Brien. Some good advice.

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