[Congressional Record (Bound Edition), Volume 147 (2001), Part 20]
[House]
[Pages 27001-27006]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]



        TERRORIST BOMBINGS CONVENTION IMPLEMENTATION ACT OF 2001

  Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I move to suspend the rules and pass 
the bill (H.R. 3275) to implement the International Convention for the 
Suppression of Terrorist Bombings to strengthen criminal laws relating 
to attacks on places of public use, to implement the International 
Convention of the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism, to combat 
terrorism and defend the Nation against terrorist acts, and for other 
purposes, as amended.
  The Clerk read as follows:

                               H.R. 3275

       Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of 
     the United States of America in Congress assembled,

               TITLE I--SUPPRESSION OF TERRORIST BOMBINGS

     SEC. 101. SHORT TITLE.

       This title may be cited as the ``Terrorist Bombings 
     Convention Implementation Act of 2001''.

     SEC. 102. BOMBING STATUTE.

       (a) Offense.--Chapter 113B of title 18, United States Code, 
     relating to terrorism, is amended by inserting after section 
     2332e the following new section:

     ``Sec. 2332f. Bombings of places of public use, government 
       facilities, public transportation systems and 
       infrastructure facilities

       ``(a) Offenses.--
       ``(1) In general.--Whoever unlawfully delivers, places, 
     discharges, or detonates an explosive or other lethal device 
     in, into, or against a place of public use, a state or 
     government facility, a public transportation system, or an 
     infrastructure facility--
       ``(A) with the intent to cause death or serious bodily 
     injury, or
       ``(B) with the intent to cause extensive destruction of 
     such a place, facility, or system, where such destruction 
     results in or is likely to result in major economic loss,

     shall be punished as prescribed in subsection (c).
       ``(2) Attempts and conspiracies.--Whoever attempts or 
     conspires to commit an offense under paragraph (1) shall be 
     punished as prescribed in subsection (c).
       ``(b) Jurisdiction.--There is jurisdiction over the 
     offenses in subsection (a) if--
       ``(1) the offense takes place in the United States and--
       ``(A) the offense is committed against another state or a 
     government facility of such state, including its embassy or 
     other diplomatic or consular premises of that state;
       ``(B) the offense is committed in an attempt to compel 
     another state or the United States to do or abstain from 
     doing any act;
       ``(C) at the time the offense is committed, it is 
     committed--
       ``(i) on board a vessel flying the flag of another state;
       ``(ii) on board an aircraft which is registered under the 
     laws of another state; or
       ``(iii) on board an aircraft which is operated by the 
     government of another state;
       ``(D) a perpetrator is found outside the United States;
       ``(E) a perpetrator is a national of another state or a 
     stateless person; or
       ``(F) a victim is a national of another state or a 
     stateless person;
       ``(2) the offense takes place outside the United States 
     and--
       ``(A) a perpetrator is a national of the United States or 
     is a stateless person whose habitual residence is in the 
     United States;
       ``(B) a victim is a national of the United States;
       ``(C) a perpetrator is found in the United States;
       ``(D) the offense is committed in an attempt to compel the 
     United States to do or abstain from doing any act;
       ``(E) the offense is committed against a state or 
     government facility of the United States, including an 
     embassy or other diplomatic or consular premises of the 
     United States;
       ``(F) the offense is committed on board a vessel flying the 
     flag of the United States or an aircraft which is registered 
     under the laws of the United States at the time the offense 
     is committed; or
       ``(G) the offense is committed on board an aircraft which 
     is operated by the United States.
       ``(c) Penalties.--Whoever violates this section shall be 
     imprisoned for any term of years or for life, and if death 
     results from the violation, shall be punished by death or 
     imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
       ``(d) Exemptions to Jurisdiction.--This section does not 
     apply to--
       ``(1) the activities of armed forces during an armed 
     conflict, as those terms are understood under the law of war, 
     which are governed by that law,
       ``(2) activities undertaken by military forces of a state 
     in the exercise of their official duties; or
       ``(3) offenses committed within the United States, where 
     the alleged offender and the victims are United States 
     citizens and the alleged offender is found in the United 
     States, or where jurisdiction is predicated solely on the 
     nationality of the victims or the alleged offender and the 
     offense has no substantial effect on interstate or foreign 
     commerce.
       ``(e) Definitions.--As used in this section, the term--
       ``(1) `serious bodily injury' has the meaning given that 
     term in section 1365(g)(3) of this title;
       ``(2) `national of the United States' has the meaning given 
     that term in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and 
     Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22));
       ``(3) `state or government facility' includes any permanent 
     or temporary facility or conveyance that is used or occupied 
     by representatives of a state, members of Government, the 
     legislature or the judiciary or by officials or employees of 
     a state or any other public authority or entity or by 
     employees or officials of an intergovernmental organization 
     in connection with their official duties;
       ``(4) `intergovernmental organization' includes 
     international organization (as defined in section 1116(b)(5) 
     of this title);
       ``(5) `infrastructure facility' means any publicly or 
     privately owned facility providing or distributing services 
     for the benefit of the public, such as water, sewage, energy, 
     fuel, or communications;
       ``(6) `place of public use' means those parts of any 
     building, land, street, waterway, or other location that are 
     accessible or open to

[[Page 27002]]

     members of the public, whether continuously, periodically, or 
     occasionally, and encompasses any commercial, business, 
     cultural, historical, educational, religious, governmental, 
     entertainment, recreational, or similar place that is so 
     accessible or open to the public;
       ``(7) `public transportation system' means all facilities, 
     conveyances, and instrumentalities, whether publicly or 
     privately owned, that are used in or for publicly available 
     services for the transportation of persons or cargo;
       ``(8) `explosive' has the meaning given in section 844(j) 
     of this title insofar that it is designed, or has the 
     capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury, or 
     substantial material damage;
       ``(9) `other lethal device' means any weapon or device that 
     is designed or has the capability to cause death, serious 
     bodily injury, or substantial damage to property through the 
     release, dissemination, or impact of toxic chemicals, 
     biological agents or toxins (as those terms are defined in 
     section 178 of this title), or radiation or radioactive 
     material;
       ``(10) `military forces of a state' means the armed forces 
     of a state which are organized, trained, and equipped under 
     its internal law for the primary purpose of national defense 
     or security, and persons acting in support of those armed 
     forces who are under their formal command, control, and 
     responsibility;
       ``(11) `armed conflict' does not include internal 
     disturbances and tensions, such as riots, isolated and 
     sporadic acts of violence, and other acts of a similar 
     nature; and
       ``(12) `state' has the same meaning as that term has under 
     international law, and includes all political subdivisions 
     thereof.''.
       (b) Clerical Amendment.--The table of sections at the 
     beginning of chapter 113B of title 18, United States Code, is 
     amended by adding after the item relating to section 2332e 
     the following:

``2332f. Bombings of places of public use, government facilities, 
              public transportation systems and infrastructure 
              facilities.''.
       (c) Disclaimer.--Nothing contained in this section is 
     intended to affect the applicability of any other Federal or 
     State law which might pertain to the underlying conduct.

     SEC. 103. EFFECTIVE DATE.

       Section 102 of this title shall become effective on the 
     date that the International Convention for the Suppression of 
     Terrorist Bombings enters into force for the United States.

          TITLE II--SUPPRESSION OF THE FINANCING OF TERRORISM

     SEC. 201. SHORT TITLE.

       This title may be cited as the ``Suppression of the 
     Financing of Terrorism Convention Implementation Act of 
     2001''.

     SEC. 202. TERRORISM FINANCING STATUTE.

       (a) In General.--Chapter 113B of title 18, United States 
     Code, relating to terrorism, is amended by adding at the end 
     thereof the following new section:

     ``Sec. 2339C. Prohibitions against the financing of terrorism

       ``(a) Offenses.--
       ``(1) In general.--Whoever, in a circumstance described in 
     subsection (c), by any means, directly or indirectly, 
     unlawfully and willfully provides or collects funds with the 
     intention that such funds be used, or with the knowledge that 
     such funds are to be used, in full or in part, in order to 
     carry out--
       ``(A) an act which constitutes an offense within the scope 
     of a treaty specified in subsection (e)(7), as implemented by 
     the United States, or
       ``(B) any other act intended to cause death or serious 
     bodily injury to a civilian, or to any other person not 
     taking an active part in the hostilities in a situation of 
     armed conflict, when the purpose of such act, by its nature 
     or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a 
     government or an international organization to do or to 
     abstain from doing any act,

     shall be punished as prescribed in subsection (d)(1).
       ``(2) Attempts and conspiracies.--Whoever attempts or 
     conspires to commit an offense under paragraph (1) shall be 
     punished as prescribed in subsection (d)(1).
       ``(3) Relationship to predicate act.--For an act to 
     constitute an offense set forth in this subsection, it shall 
     not be necessary that the funds were actually used to carry 
     out a predicate act.
       ``(b) Concealment.--
       ``(1) In General.--Whoever, in the United States, or 
     outside the United States and a national of the United States 
     or a legal entity organized under the laws of the United 
     States (including any of its States, districts, 
     commonwealths, territories, or possessions), knowingly 
     conceals or disguises the nature, the location, the source, 
     or the ownership or control of any material support or 
     resources provided in violation of section 2339B of this 
     chapter, or of any funds provided or collected in violation 
     of subsection (a) or any proceeds of such funds, shall be 
     punished as prescribed in subsection (d)(2).
       ``(2) Attempts and conspiracies.--Whoever attempts or 
     conspires to commit an offense under paragraph (1) shall be 
     punished as prescribed in subsection (d)(2).
       ``(c) Jurisdiction.--There is jurisdiction over the 
     offenses in subsection (a) in the following circumstances--
       ``(1) the offense takes place in the United States and--
       ``(A) a perpetrator was a national of another state or a 
     stateless person;
       ``(B) on board a vessel flying the flag of another state or 
     an aircraft which is registered under the laws of another 
     state at the time the offense is committed;
       ``(C) on board an aircraft which is operated by the 
     government of another state;
       ``(D) a perpetrator is found outside the United States;
       ``(E) was directed toward or resulted in the carrying out 
     of a predicate act against--
       ``(i) a national of another state; or
       ``(ii) another state or a government facility of such 
     state, including its embassy or other diplomatic or consular 
     premises of that state;
       ``(F) was directed toward or resulted in the carrying out 
     of a predicate act committed in an attempt to compel another 
     state or international organization to do or abstain from 
     doing any act; or
       ``(G) was directed toward or resulted in the carrying out 
     of a predicate act--
       ``(i) outside the United States; or
       ``(ii) within the United States, and either the offense or 
     the predicate act was conducted in, or the results thereof 
     affected, interstate or foreign commerce;
       ``(2) the offense takes place outside the United States 
     and--
       ``(A) a perpetrator is a national of the United States or 
     is a stateless person whose habitual residence is in the 
     United States;
       ``(B) a perpetrator is found in the United States; or
       ``(C) was directed toward or resulted in the carrying out 
     of a predicate act against--
       ``(i) any property that is owned, leased, or used by the 
     United States or by any department or agency of the United 
     States, including an embassy or other diplomatic or consular 
     premises of the United States;
       ``(ii) any person or property within the United States;
       ``(iii) any national of the United States or the property 
     of such national; or
       ``(iv) any property of any legal entity organized under the 
     laws of the United States, including any of its States, 
     districts, commonwealths, territories, or possessions;
       ``(3) the offense is committed on board a vessel flying the 
     flag of the United States or an aircraft which is registered 
     under the laws of the United States at the time the offense 
     is committed;
       ``(4) the offense is committed on board an aircraft which 
     is operated by the United States; or
       ``(5) the offense was directed toward or resulted in the 
     carrying out of a predicate act committed in an attempt to 
     compel the United States to do or abstain from doing any act.
       ``(d) Penalties.--
       ``(1) Whoever violates subsection (a) shall be fined under 
     this title, imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both.
       ``(2) Whoever violates subsection (b) shall be fined under 
     this title, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both.
       ``(e) Definitions.--As used in this section--
       ``(1) the term `funds' means assets of every kind, whether 
     tangible or intangible, movable or immovable, however 
     acquired, and legal documents or instruments in any form, 
     including electronic or digital, evidencing title to, or 
     interest in, such assets, including coin, currency, bank 
     credits, travelers checks, bank checks, money orders, shares, 
     securities, bonds, drafts, and letters of credit;
       ``(2) the term `government facility' means any permanent or 
     temporary facility or conveyance that is used or occupied by 
     representatives of a state, members of a government, the 
     legislature, or the judiciary, or by officials or employees 
     of a state or any other public authority or entity or by 
     employees or officials of an intergovernmental organization 
     in connection with their official duties;
       ``(3) the term `proceeds' means any funds derived from or 
     obtained, directly or indirectly, through the commission of 
     an offense set forth in subsection (a);
       ``(4) the term `provides' includes giving, donating, and 
     transmitting;
       ``(5) the term `collects' includes raising and receiving;
       ``(6) the term `predicate act' means any act referred to in 
     subparagraph (A) or (B) of subsection (a)(1);
       ``(7) the term `treaty' means--
       ``(A) the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful 
     Seizure of Aircraft, done at The Hague on December 16, 1970;
       ``(B) the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts 
     against the Safety of Civil Aviation, done at Montreal on 
     September 23, 1971;
       ``(C) the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of 
     Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons, including 
     Diplomatic Agents, adopted by the General Assembly of the 
     United Nations on December 14, 1973;
       ``(D) the International Convention against the Taking of 
     Hostages, adopted by the General Assembly of the United 
     Nations on December 17, 1979;
       ``(E) the Convention on the Physical Protection of Nuclear 
     Material, adopted at Vienna on March 3, 1980;

[[Page 27003]]

       ``(F) the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of 
     Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation, 
     supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of 
     Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation, done at 
     Montreal on February 24, 1988;
       ``(G) the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts 
     against the Safety of Maritime Navigation, done at Rome on 
     March 10, 1988;
       ``(H) the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts 
     against the Safety of Fixed Platforms located on the 
     Continental Shelf, done at Rome on March 10, 1988; or
       ``(I) the International Convention for the Suppression of 
     Terrorist Bombings, adopted by the General Assembly of the 
     United Nations on December 15, 1997;
       ``(8) the term `intergovernmental organization' includes 
     international organizations;
       ``(9) the term `international organization' has the same 
     meaning as in section 1116(b)(5) of this title;
       ``(10) the term `armed conflict' does not include internal 
     disturbances and tensions, such as riots, isolated and 
     sporadic acts of violence, and other acts of a similar 
     nature;
       ``(11) the term `serious bodily injury' has the same 
     meaning as in section 1365(g)(3) of this title;
       ``(12) the term `national of the United States' has the 
     meaning given that term in section 101(a)(22) of the 
     Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22)); and
       ``(13) the term `state' has the same meaning as that term 
     has under international law, and includes all political 
     subdivisions thereof.
       ``(f) Civil Penalty.--In addition to any other criminal, 
     civil, or administrative liability or penalty, any legal 
     entity located within the United States or organized under 
     the laws of the United States, including any of the laws of 
     its States, districts, commonwealths, territories, or 
     possessions, shall be liable to the United States for the sum 
     of at least $10,000, if a person responsible for the 
     management or control of that legal entity has, in that 
     capacity, committed an offense set forth in subsection 
     (a).''.
       (b) Clerical Amendment.--The table of sections at the 
     beginning of chapter 113B of title 18, United States Code, is 
     amended by adding at the end thereof the following:

``2339C. Prohibitions against the financing of terrorism.''.
       (c) Disclaimer.--Nothing contained in this section is 
     intended to affect the scope or applicability of any other 
     Federal or State law.

     SEC. 203. EFFECTIVE DATE.

       Except for sections 2339C(c)(1)(D) and (2)(B) of title 18, 
     United States Code, which shall become effective on the date 
     that the International Convention for the Suppression of the 
     Financing of Terrorism enters into force for the United 
     States, and for the provisions of section 2339C(e)(7)(I) of 
     title 18, United States Code, which shall become effective on 
     the date that the International Convention for the 
     Suppression of Terrorist Bombing enters into force for the 
     United States, section 202 of this title shall be effective 
     upon enactment.

                     TITLE III--ANCILLARY MEASURES

     SEC. 301. ANCILLARY MEASURES.

       (a) Wiretap Predicates.--Section 2516(1)(q) of title 18, 
     United States Code, is amended by--
       (1) inserting ``2332f,'' after ``2332d,''; and
       (2) striking ``or 2339B'' and inserting ``2339B, or 
     2339C''.
       (b) Federal Crime of Terrorism.--Section 2332b(g)(5)(B) of 
     title 18, United States Code, is amended by--
       (1) inserting ``2332f (relating to bombing of public places 
     and facilities),'' after ``2332b (relating to acts of 
     terrorism transcending national boundaries),''; and
       (2) inserting ``2339C (relating to financing of 
     terrorism),'' before ``or 2340A (relating to torture)''.
       (c) Providing Material Support to Terrorists Predicate.--
     Section 2339A of title 18, United States Code, is amended by 
     inserting ``2332f,'' before ``or 2340A''.
       (d) Forfeiture of Funds, Proceeds, and Instrumentalities.--
     Section 981(a)(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended 
     by adding at the end thereof the following new subparagraph:
       ``(H) Any property, real or personal, involved in a 
     violation or attempted violation, or which constitutes or is 
     derived from proceeds traceable to a violation, of section 
     2339C of this title.''.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to the rule, the gentleman from 
Wisconsin, (Mr. Sensenbrenner), and the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. 
Scott) each will control 20 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. 
Sensenbrenner).


                             General Leave

  Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all 
Members may have 5 legislative days within which to revise and extend 
their remarks and to include extraneous material on H.R. 3275, the bill 
under consideration.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Wisconsin?
  There was no objection.
  Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, as we have learned in recent months, the only effective 
way to fight terrorism is to fight it on a global scale. In order to 
accomplish this, it is important that we build an international 
framework for combating terrorism in all its forms. The first and most 
important piece of this framework is international cooperation. Passage 
of the bill before us today will allow the United States to reinforce 
the international community's intolerance for and condemnation of 
terrorist acts and their financing.
  Mr. Speaker, on December 5, 2001, the Senate gave its advice and 
consent to ratify the International Convention for the Suppression of 
Terrorist Bombings and the International Convention for the Suppression 
of Financing of Terrorism. H.R. 3275 makes appropriate changes to Title 
18 of the United States Code in order to implement these treaties so 
that they can be ratified by the President.
  The Terrorist Bombings Convention addresses the most utilized form of 
terrorism, the bombings of public places, State or government 
facilities, public transportation systems or infrastructure facilities, 
with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury. H.R. 3275 
enacts a new statute which would criminalize these acts if they have an 
international nexus, such as the bombing of a foreign embassy located 
in the United States. Nations who are a party to this treaty agree to 
extradite or prosecute persons accused of such offenses, and also agree 
to provide assistance in connection with the investigation of such 
crimes.
  I am sure everyone is aware that there are already State and Federal 
laws that criminalize terrorist bombings. This legislation will 
supplement those laws and close any loopholes that an accused terrorist 
may try to exploit in a court of law. Furthermore, the legislation 
covers biological, chemical, and radiological weapons, as well as 
conventional explosives.
  The Terrorist Financing Convention addresses a common element of 
every terrorist act, financing and other support. This treaty 
recognizes that the financial backers of terrorism are just as 
responsible as those who commit the terrorist acts themselves. H.R. 
3275 makes it a crime to unlawfully and willingly provide or collect 
funds with the intention or knowledge that such funds are to be used to 
carry out any act intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to a 
civilian. As with the Terrorist Bombing Convention, there must be some 
international nexus with the terrorist financing, such as someone 
operating outside of the United States. Likewise, nations who are a 
party to this treaty also agree to extradite or prosecute and assist in 
criminal investigations.
  The Terrorist Bombing and Terrorist Financing Conventions follow the 
general model of prior terrorism conventions negotiated by the United 
States. These conventions will significantly strengthen the network of 
anti-terrorism treaties built over the last 30 years by requiring 
nations to criminalize terrorist conduct identified in the treaties and 
to cooperate in the investigation and prosecution of the offenses. 
Given the global way that terrorists operate, it is imperative that we 
make sure that as many countries as possible have comparable laws 
against terrorism for an effective framework of investigation, 
extradition, and prosecution.

                              {time}  1015

  Mr. Speaker, I urge all Members to support this bill.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to H.R. 3275 which would implement 
the international convention for the suppression of terrorist bombings, 
and the international convention for the suppression of the financing 
of terrorism. I am not opposed to the bill because of the treaties, but 
because of the extraneous items that are in the treaties. These 
treaties have been pending for

[[Page 27004]]

some time, and I applaud the President for his present resolve in 
having the treaties ratified.
  There are many extraneous provisions in the bills that are not 
necessary, however, to ratify either of the treaties. The treaties 
require that we have such laws on the books which would do such things 
like criminalize terrorist bombings and the financing of terrorist 
activities.
  A few weeks ago, we passed legislation which was represented by the 
administration as a comprehensive anti-terrorism bill designed to cover 
the full gamut terrorist threats in this country, as well as the 
support of terrorist activities. Upon that representation, we provided 
unprecedented extensions of wiretap, RICO asset forfeitures, and 
additional punishments were enacted into law. Now we are told that 
additional laws have to be passed.
  One of the provisions that requires us to have a law prohibiting 
bombing of foreign embassies in the United States cannot possibly be 
necessary. It is obviously against the law in the United States to bomb 
any building, much less a foreign embassy. A lot of these statutes are 
not needed.
  The provisions before us do not constitute the treaties. The treaties 
are embodied in other documents. There are provisions, for example, 
that are actually counterproductive. This bill includes certain death 
penalties. The death penalty actually works against us because many of 
our allies will not extradite their criminals to the United States 
because we have the death penalty. There are other provisions that are 
not necessary. We were told by the administration that the death 
penalty provisions were, in fact, not needed to implement the treaties, 
and yet here they are in the bill.
  Given this situation, Mr. Speaker, and other provisions in the bill 
that are not necessary to implement the treaties, I would hope that we 
would defeat the bill and reconsider the bill just providing the 
provisions that are necessary to implement the treaty.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I have no further requests for time, 
and am prepared to close if the gentleman from Virginia has no further 
speakers.
  Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as she may consume to the 
gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee).
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I thank the ranking member for 
his kindness in yielding me this time, and I would also like to thank 
the gentleman from Wisconsin (Chairman Sensenbrenner). I know that the 
chairman is working on a number of legislative initiatives that are 
coming to the floor of the House, and that the gentleman is being 
required to move these legislative initiatives rather quickly. In fact, 
I also know that the gentleman has been working to help us move some 
legislation forward dealing with the access to legalization of 
immigrants, and I know that we have had some difficulties with that, 
but I thank him for his leadership and concern on those issues.
  I say that because I do not think any Member has opposition to an 
international convention that deals with the suppression of terrorist 
bombings, and that we recognize the key importance of the international 
convention of the suppression of the financing of terrorism. There is 
not one iota of difference, I believe, with Members on both sides of 
the aisle on the importance of moving forward on finding terrorists, 
bringing terrorists to justice, and ensuring that our international 
colleagues, our friends around the world, the nations that are our 
allies and others around the world, should have a convention and treaty 
that puts us on the same page in fighting terrorism.
  At the same time, I think it is important to note as we move forward 
on this legislation, and I raise a number of caution flags, for me to 
again offer my concerns about the existence of military tribunals 
without any set criteria and regulations upon which they are utilized. 
Members might ask the question where goes the relationship in 
connection with this legislation, but I think if we refuse to bring 
this up and continue in silence to accept the existence of military 
tribunals with what the other body has annunciated is not in place, 
meaning the other body asked the questions what kind of regulation, 
what kind of requirements, what kind of criteria do you use to try 
people at military tribunals? If we do not raise that issue even as we 
bring to the floor of the House this legislation, then we have a 
problem.
  I acknowledge my concern with the quiet violation of the 6th 
Amendment, and that is individuals who are being listened to as their 
attorney is providing them counsel. If we do not raise these issues on 
the floor of the House, my concern about those policies is they have no 
criteria, they have no regulation, they have no governance.
  Mr. Speaker, how can we claim to want to fairly deal with laws and 
pass an international convention on terrorism where we want everyone to 
join in around consistent rules and regulations, when we have these 
provisions in the United States with seemingly no basis and no need.
  It is interesting that we are now going to try one of the terrorists 
found in the United States by a civil court, a judiciary system under 
the laws of the United States. I think that is commendable. It says 
that we are unsure of the reasons for the military tribunal, and 
whether or not we need to use them. And we have found that our judicial 
system, the third branch of government, is more than adequate to be 
able to try one of the alleged horrific terrorists that was involved in 
the September 11 attacks.
  As it relates to this legislation, I would add my concerns to the 
passage of this legislation, without any commentary pro or con on the 
death penalty. I think it is important that we make the point that many 
of those who would be adhering to this treaty have great concern that 
we have language dealing with the death penalty, and that we could have 
cleaned this particular legislation up by accepting the amendment 
offered by the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Delahunt) and the 
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott) to delete the language, leaving in 
place the provision authorizing a maximum sentence of life 
imprisonment. That, I think, would have made this a more legitimate 
piece of legislation, in recognition of the fact that many of those who 
would join in on this treaty are absolutely opposed to the death 
penalty.
  One of our known allies, France, in dealing with bringing people to 
justice who find themselves in France, is the refusal of that country 
to deport individuals for trial here in the United States because of 
the death penalty.
  It is also worthy of noting that the administration acknowledged that 
capital punishment is not required to implement the conventions. For 
those Members listening to this debate and saying, here we go again on 
the debate of the death penalty, that is not the debate we are speaking 
about. We are talking about making an effective legislative initiative 
that deals with having a convention that will stand up.
  Right now we have an Achilles heel. We have a failing in this 
legislation because we know that there are many who have argued that 
they will not participate or not join in or that there will be a 
problem because of the death penalty provision, and at the same time, 
we have an administration that says this is not necessary.
  I am hoping as this legislation moves along, that we will take into 
consideration the point of view of some of our closest allies who have 
routinely refused to honor extradition requests by the United States 
unless their judicial authorities can be assured that the defendants 
will not face execution.
  We have faced heinous acts against the people of the United States, 
and I offer my deepest sympathy to those who lost loved ones on 
September 11. Whether this legislation with the death penalty helps 
solve our problems, I think not, particularly if those who are 
harboring criminals would not extradite them because of the death 
penalty.
  Mr. Speaker, in closing, tomorrow I will be holding a briefing 
dealing with the terrible atrocities or how the children of Afghanistan 
are being treated

[[Page 27005]]

because I believe all Americans are concerned about two sides of the 
coin, the humanitarian side and the fighting terrorism side. This is 
good legislation, but I think it could have been better legislation if 
we had taken into consideration the viewpoints of those who we seek to 
convene or seek to engage in the treaty, and that is that we would have 
a life imprisonment provision as opposed to a death penalty provision 
which undermines our relationship with our allies who have opposition 
to this point of view.
  Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe what I just heard. We are told that we 
should not put a death penalty in this bill that relates to 
implementing a convention against terrorist bombings where a death or 
serious injury occur because the French do not like it. Well, the last 
time I read the United States Constitution, the elected representatives 
of the American people legislate for America, not the elected 
representatives of the French people. This is an issue of our national 
sovereignty and whether or not we believe that the death penalty is an 
appropriate option for those who are accused of crimes under the 
convention designed to combat terrorist bombings.
  The overwhelming majority of the American people support the death 
penalty, particularly when it is with respect to a terrorist act. We 
should not let the parliament of any other country in the world make a 
determination on what the appropriate penalty is for those who are 
accused of these heinous crimes and are convicted by a unanimous 
verdict of 12 jurors who believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the 
defendant committed the crimes that are mentioned.
  We already have provisions in the United States code providing for 
the death penalty for terrorist act that result in somebody's death. 
Without making this law parallel to the other penalties in the United 
States code, we are setting up a dual system of justice. If a defendant 
is indicted for violating one section, the defendant is subject to the 
death penalty. If a defendant is indicted for violating another section 
of the code as created by this bill, the defendant is not. That, I 
think, is the wrong message that we ought to send both domestically and 
internationally with respect to this issue.
  I remind Members, Mr. Speaker, that since 1972, the death penalty is 
not automatic upon conviction of a crime. The same jury that has 
convicted someone of a capital defense is reimpaneled and hears 
aggravating and mitigating evidence, and makes a determination whether 
or not the death penalty should be imposed. Who is better equipped to 
do that but the jurors that listened to the trial on the merits, saw 
the demeanor of the defendant in court, whether or not the defendant 
testified in his or her own behalf, decided which witnesses were 
telling the truth and which witnesses were not, and were able to see 
the demeanor of every other participant in that trial.
  I think that the message that we ought to send, purely and simply, is 
that the elected representatives of the American people will decide 
what these penalties are, not people in France or in Italy or in Sweden 
or Germany or anyplace else. I think that the American people want the 
death penalty for these types of crimes as an option when a defendant 
is indicted.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.

                              {time}  1030

  Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, this bill is designed to facilitate the fight against 
terrorism and working with our allies in that fight, and it is, 
frankly, not helpful in that process to have situations where our 
allies will not cooperate with us because of the death penalty.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the gentleman 
from Massachusetts (Mr. Delahunt).
  Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me 
time.
  Mr. Speaker, I have to respectfully disagree with the chairman of the 
committee for the same reasons that were articulated by both the 
gentlewoman from Texas and the ranking member of the subcommittee. I 
think we have to put this in context and understand exactly what is 
required in terms of the Convention. The administration itself has 
acknowledged that this death penalty provision is not required to 
implement the Convention.
  I have no disagreement with the gentleman's premise that it is the 
United States Congress that imposes or reflects, if you will, the will 
of the majority of the American people. At the same time, this 
provision is going to cause serious problems. In fact, not only is it 
not required under the Convention, but, as the gentleman from Virginia 
(Mr. Scott) indicated, it will actually impair the fight against 
international terrorism by making it harder for the Justice Department 
to secure extradition in these kinds of cases.
  Our continued resort to the death penalty has brought condemnation 
from nations across the globe. Even some of our closest allies 
routinely refuse to honor extradition requests by the United States 
unless their judicial authorities can be assured that the defendants 
will not face execution. It has become a serious problem in terms of 
our legal relationships with our most steadfast allies, some of which 
were enumerated by the chairman of the committee.
  Earlier this year, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the 
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms precludes extradition to the 
United States unless U.S. authorities give assurances that the death 
penalty will not be imposed. Similar rulings have been made by 
governments and courts in France, South Africa and elsewhere.
  I do not see how it serves American interests to enact additional 
provisions that do not exist currently in the law that will further 
complicate our ability to prosecute terrorists and further marginalize 
the U.S. within the family of nations.
  Now, the administration justifies the new death penalty provision by 
claiming that it merely tracks current law with respect to comparable 
domestic crimes. That, I am sure, is accurate. But the fact that the 
current law presents an obstacle to our law enforcement objectives is 
hardly a persuasive argument for compounding the problem.
  Reasonable people may continue to disagree with whether the death 
penalty serves as a deterrent to some categories of crimes, but I am at 
a loss to see how anyone can seriously believe that the prospect of the 
death penalty will deter suicide missions of the kind that this Nation 
witnessed on September 11. I dare say it will have no effect 
whatsoever, and I believe the administration implicitly concedes as 
much when it says that this new provision merely replicates existing 
death penalty provisions, provisions which did nothing to prevent those 
attacks from occurring.
  Now, again, I support the Convention. I believe it should be ratified 
and implemented with all reasonable dispatch. But we have a 
responsibility to achieve that goal in a way that generally advances 
our national interests. I hope the Senate will fix this legislation so 
that that can happen.
  Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, this bill is designed to implement a treaty. In order to 
be limited to that purpose, the bill goes well beyond what needs to be 
done, and, in fact, contains provisions that may be counterproductive. 
I therefore urge my colleagues to oppose the legislation.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, we have now heard the proposition that passing this bill 
as it is with the death penalty provisions contained in it is somehow 
going to render ineffective the foreign policy of the United States.
  I would draw the attention of the gentleman from Massachusetts, in 
particular, to House document 107-139, which is a legislative proposal 
transmitted by the President of the United

[[Page 27006]]

States to Congress on October 25, 2001, containing the death penalty. 
Now, under the Constitution, it is the President that conducts the 
foreign policy of the United States, and if he believed that the death 
penalty features in this legislation which involved terrorist bombings 
would somehow hamper his ability to put together an international 
coalition to fight the al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization, I 
am sure he would have said so in this message that he sent to the 
Congress. But he did not.
  Giving prosecutors the opportunity to ask for the death penalty when 
there is a particularly heinous crime I think is something that should 
be an arrow in the quiver of the Justice Department. I regret that the 
opponents of this legislation have made their philosophical opposition 
to the death penalty a reason to vote down the implementation of a 
treaty designed to combat international terrorism such as bombing of 
public facilities that we have seen occur at our embassies in Africa 
and which, unfortunately, occur on an almost daily basis in Israel, but 
I think that the President is right that we should have the option of 
having a death penalty as one of the penalties, should someone be 
indicted, tried and convicted.
  I would urge the membership to support this bill overwhelmingly.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Isakson). The question is on the motion 
offered by the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Sensenbrenner) that the 
House suspend the rules and pass the bill, H.R. 3275, as amended.
  The question was taken.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. In the opinion of the Chair, two-thirds of 
those present have voted in the affirmative.
  Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.
  The yeas and nays were ordered.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 8 of rule XX and the 
Chair's prior announcement, further proceedings on this motion will be 
postponed.

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