[Congressional Record Volume 171, Number 29 (Wednesday, February 12, 2025)]
[Senate]
[Pages S877-S881]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]


                           EXECUTIVE CALENDAR

  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will report the nomination.

[[Page S878]]

  The senior assistant legislative clerk read the nomination of Robert 
F. Kennedy, Jr., of California, to be Secretary of Health and Human 
Services.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Oregon.


                  Nomination of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

  Mr. WYDEN. Mr. President, as we begin this discussion that is so 
important to America, I thought I would just mention the conversation I 
had recently with a couple of young medical students who came up to me 
and said: We know you are interested in healthcare and have been 
involved in this.
  I am so appreciative of Senator Murray, who is going to pick up on 
the healthcare issue--an area where she has very substantial experience 
and expertise.
  I thought these medical students summed up this debate, because they 
said: The way we see this Kennedy nomination, it is not just a vote for 
next week or even next year; this is a vote with enormous impact for 
decades.
  Because Mr. Kennedy, according to these young medical students, has a 
long record of essentially being anti-science.
  What we are going to do in our discussion of his nomination is go 
into that and other issues.
  Suffice it to say, during his confirmation hearings--and they have 
been in multiple committees now--he was given ample opportunity from 
members on both sides of the dais to clarify his views on science and 
vaccines and our Nation's biggest Federal health programs. We are going 
to, in the hours ahead, touch on each of these and why Mr. Kennedy's 
failure to demonstrate a basic understanding of these important issues 
that impact America's health make him a uniquely unqualified nominee to 
become our Nation's chief healthcare officer.
  In beginning my remarks, I wanted to say that ever since my days with 
the Gray Panthers, I have always felt that healthcare is the most 
important issue. If you and your loved ones don't have your health, 
everything just goes by the board. So that just reinforces what these 
young medical students were saying about the decision we are going to 
make in future hours with respect to Mr. Kennedy.
  I am going to start with perhaps the most dangerous aspect of his 
long history, and that is his embrace and amplification of vaccine 
conspiracy theories. He has made a lucrative career out of sowing doubt 
in the minds of parents when it comes to vaccinating their kids. His 
nonprofit, the Children's Health Defense, is solely dedicated to 
peddling these conspiracies. You can even get merch. There are baby 
onesies, apparently, that read ``Unvaxxed, Unafraid,'' ``No Vax, No 
Problem.''
  He has been the attorney of record on at least five cases against 
drug companies for their vaccines, which he didn't disclose to ethics 
officials and refused to answer questions about. He also refused to 
give up his 10 percent stake in any settlement agreements--instead, 
passing them off to his son. He refused to recuse himself from taking 
any actions that might affect his family's financial interests.
  A vaccine that became routine for young people about 20 years ago is 
involved here, and since then, it has successfully cut cervical cancer 
rates into just a fraction of what they were before the drug came out 
to market. All of this adds up to a future HHS Secretary who stands to 
profit off of undermining this vaccine and, as a result, raise cervical 
cancer rates.
  To quote my Republican colleague Senator Cassidy, a physician, Mr. 
Kennedy is ``financially vested in finding fault with vaccines.''
  He also played a big role in one of the most deadly measles outbreaks 
in recent history. In 2019, he traveled to Samoa and used his platform 
to promote his anti-vax agenda, taking aim at the measles vaccine. The 
vaccine rate in Samoa plummeted. By 2019, measles had torn through the 
population, making more than 5,700 people sick, and 80 people were 
killed, most of them young kids.
  During his confirmation hearing at the Senate Finance Committee, Mr. 
Kennedy told me, ``We don't know what was killing them,'' speaking 
about those 83 deaths. But just last week, the Director General of 
Health for Samoa called this claim by Mr. Kennedy ``a total 
fabrication.''
  So, Mr. President and colleagues, just put that in your thinking 
about this consideration--Mr. Kennedy saying that he didn't know what 
was killing these young people in Samoa and the Director General of 
Health of Samoa calling Mr. Kennedy's claim ``a total fabrication.''
  A recent analysis showed that Mr. Kennedy has made 114 separate 
appearances in the last 4 years where he took anti-vaccine views or 
spread misinformation about the efficacy of vaccines. In 36 of these 
instances, Mr. Kennedy directly linked vaccines to autism.
  Instead of providing the committee with clarity or reassurances about 
his decades-long career peddling vaccine conspiracies, what did Mr. 
Kennedy do? He dodged, he weaved, he bobbed and gave no indication that 
as Health and Human Services Secretary, he would stand by settled 
science that surrounds vaccines.
  As HHS Secretary, Mr. Kennedy would have a huge amount of control 
over how vaccines are promoted and administered in our country. He 
could issue orders that discourage doctors from sharing information 
with parents and patients about lifesaving vaccines. He could issue an 
order that discourages schools from talking about or even requiring 
vaccines. He could rubberstamp an Executive order from Donald Trump 
that defunds the Centers for Disease Control, which is essentially the 
Agency in charge of getting Americans up-to-date information about 
vaccines and when to get them.
  Just imagine you are a parent scrolling on Instagram or listening to 
a podcast. You hear this gentleman speaking passionately about the 
danger of vaccines. Maybe you do a bit of research, and lo and behold, 
you find this is the Secretary of Health and Human Services, America's 
chief healthcare guy. You think to yourself: Huh, this guy must know 
what he is talking about. Maybe he is right in his questioning of 
whether vaccines are safe and effective.
  So the seed of doubt on vaccines gets planted. Then, at your kid's 
next wellness exam, you decide not to get them their next round of 
vaccinations. A few months later, you are taking them on a trip to 
Disneyland, say for spring break, where countless other parents like 
you have heard the same medical advice from the same person and they, 
too, decided against vaccinating their kids.
  It only takes one of those kids carrying a deadly disease like 
measles for an outbreak to begin, and pretty soon, after what was 
supposed to be the spring break trip of your dreams, your kid, sadly, 
is showing symptoms.
  What follows then is a slew of doctor's appointments, maybe even a 
stay in the hospital, sleepless nights, missed days of work and school, 
not to mention dread and fear for your child's very well-being. 
Meanwhile, countless other parents around the country that went on the 
same trip to Disneyland are now experiencing the same exact nightmare 
you are.
  Sowing the seed of doubt in the minds of just a few people can have 
massive consequences for communities across the country, and it is not 
hypothetical. Right now, there is a measles outbreak in Texas that has 
sickened more than a dozen kids. The number of kindergartners showing 
up with an exemption for required vaccinations jumped to a record high 
last fall. The two facts are connected, and Mr. Kennedy and his allies 
can take the credit for it.
  Now, Mr. Kennedy is fond of saying he is not making recommendations 
about whether parents should vaccinate their kids; he is just asking 
questions and giving people choices. That is a slippery tactic used by 
conspiracy theorists to dodge any real responsibility for their words 
and actions, and it is absurd coming from somebody who is about to be 
confirmed for a job that is entirely about making recommendations.
  Mr. Kennedy is also fond of saying that if somebody shows him the 
science to prove he is wrong, well, then he will apologize and retract 
his statements, but when somebody does show him the science proves him 
wrong, he just brushes it aside and basically will not accept it as 
fact.
  Once again, to quote my Republican colleague Bill Cassidy directly: 
``to

[[Page S879]]

improve the health of Americans, or undermine it, always asking for 
more evidence and never accepting the evidence that is there''--that is 
why, Bill Cassidy told Mr. Kennedy, he was struggling with his 
nomination.
  Even Republicans like Senator Cassidy--someone I work with frequently 
on the Finance Committee and respect his opinion--he notes how 
dangerous this guy is.
  It is not hyperbole to say that when Mr. Kennedy becomes Health and 
Human Services Secretary, if he does, and has control over how our 
government rolls out vaccines or makes them available, I believe kids 
in America will die.
  When disease rates for illnesses that have effective vaccines start 
to rise in States across the country and hospitalizations and death 
tolls mount, my Republican colleagues are going to regret voting, if 
they do, for Mr. Kennedy today or early tomorrow.
  When disease rates for illnesses that have effective vaccines start 
to rise in States across the country and death tolls mount, again, we 
will see Republicans say: This is something that could have been 
prevented. What else should we have done?
  Republicans will be responsible for every child that dies as a result 
of not being vaccinated because it seems they care more about staying 
in the good graces of Donald Trump than they do about protecting the 
lives of kids. Again, this is something they will regret for years to 
come.
  Now, before we turn to Senator Murray's remarks, I would just like to 
touch on Mr. Kennedy's stance on reproductive choice--an area where 
Senator Murray has been our leader for years and years in the Senate.
  In the lead up to and during his failed Presidential campaign, Mr. 
Kennedy repeatedly claimed he supported a woman's right to make her own 
healthcare decisions. Less than a year ago, in an Instagram post on 
June 14 last year, he stated that he supports the emerging consensus in 
this country that abortion should be legal up to a certain number of 
weeks.
  Fast-forward to his confirmation again at the Senate Finance 
Committee a few weeks ago. He was pressed repeatedly by Democrats about 
his stance on abortion. Instead of clarifying, Mr. Kennedy defaulted to 
a clearly rehearsed talking point that he repeated over and over again:

       I agree with President Trump. Every abortion is a tragedy.

  While that answer doesn't give us much clarity, it is certainly 
telling. Mr. Kennedy has a long history of changing his stance on 
healthcare issue after healthcare issue to whatever position benefits 
him at the moment. As long as it earns him power or it earns him a 
paycheck, as far as I can tell, Mr. Kennedy will believe--or at least 
pretend to believe--whatever you want him to. He is willing to give up 
his principles and all his beliefs that women and mothers are better 
equipped to make their own healthcare decisions than politicians, and 
it is all about, as we have talked about on this floor, staying in 
Donald Trump's orbit of power.
  While Mr. Kennedy recites rehearsed talking points on the subject, 
this is an issue that has had real, deadly consequences for women, as 
Senator Murray has said again and again.
  Donald Trump spent his first term packing the Supreme Court with 
rightwing extremists willing to rip away the reproductive freedoms 
guaranteed to us under Roe v. Wade. In the wake of the Supreme Court's 
gutting Roe, millions of women living in red States have had their 
reproductive freedoms ripped away from them, all due to Donald Trump.
  In the years since the overturn of Roe, there have been countless 
headlines about the consequences of these abortion bans: women bleeding 
out in parking lots or in emergency rooms because they were denied 
care; women becoming infertile and losing their ability to have kids in 
the future because they couldn't get care; and, in the very worst 
cases, women dying.
  So it should horrify every American that we don't actually know where 
Mr. Kennedy stands. The man who could become our Nation's chief 
healthcare officer--we don't know where he stands on reproductive 
health, short of perhaps just saying he is a ``yes'' man for anything 
Donald Trump tells him to do.
  So I think at this point, Mr. President, I want to yield the floor to 
my friend and colleague from Washington State because she knows so much 
about the challenge of ensuring that women's reproductive health 
services are being protected. As Secretary of Health and Human 
Services, Mr. Kennedy could do so much damage to the well-being and 
health of women.
  I am very pleased to be able to yield the floor to Senator Murray to 
discuss that and other pressing issues.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Washington.
  Mrs. MURRAY. Mr. President, thank you to my colleague from Oregon, 
who has very clearly stated why this nominee is not someone who should 
be holding the title of Secretary of Health and Human Services, and I 
appreciate all of his work on this, and his wife's work. I hope 
everyone heeds them.
  The American people are watching now with alarm because the vast 
majority of people know vaccines are safe, they are effective, and they 
are lifesaving. But we are now on the verge of confirming as our 
Nation's highest health official a man who has spent considerable time, 
money, and effort undermining that basic fact; a man who has abused his 
platform by refusing to acknowledge the well-established science that 
shows that vaccines are not linked to autism.
  Fear about that point--fueled by RFK, Jr., and others peddling 
misinformation--is a leading reason that parents do not get their kids 
vaccinated against preventable, dangerous diseases. That is why 
elevating a man like RFK, Jr., to lead HHS would be so dangerous. Just 
giving him any platform to spread vaccine doubt is dangerous. But to 
give him one of the biggest megaphones in the world?
  It is truly shameful that we even are debating this. My colleagues 
should know better. They actually do know better. They are looking the 
other way. They are choosing to pretend like it is in any way 
believable that RFK, Jr., won't use his new power to do exactly the 
thing he has been trying to do for decades: undermine vaccines.
  Never mind the fact that CDC has already modified web pages with 
information about vaccines and other vital public health information, 
which a Federal judge has now ordered the Trump administration to 
restore. Never mind that the Trump administration is also reportedly 
planning widespread and significant layoffs--layoffs--at CDC and across 
HHS. This is how RFK, Jr., substitutes his own beliefs for science.
  So when the vaccine conspiracies start swirling, and RFK, Jr., turns 
HHS into ground zero for misinformation, ``I had no idea'' is not going 
to be an excuse for confirming him, because at the HELP Committee 
hearing, the chair pressed him repeatedly about the debunked claims 
that vaccines cause autism. And when RFK, Jr., said he needed to ``see 
the evidence,'' he was shown the evidence, but to no one's surprise, he 
did not keep his word, admit he had been wrong, and spread the good 
news that vaccines do not cause autism.
  He has had 2 weeks since that hearing to look at the same settled 
science as everyone else--crickets. But he won't hesitate to quote the 
latest anti-vax conspiracy. He is totally up to speed on that front.
  Are my colleagues really buying that this guy will take an impartial 
look at the science?
  If you think RFK, Jr., will change who he is, you are lying to 
yourself. He has given no evidence to suggest that and all the evidence 
in the world to the contrary.
  Given his long and growing track record, we cannot just pretend, if 
RFK, Jr., finally gets power to undermine vaccines--a cause he has 
dedicated a considerable amount of time and effort to--that he will 
just give up. That is not believable.
  And I know I have been talking a lot about vaccines because it is so 
obviously alarming, but the responsibility he would have goes far 
beyond that.
  So let's break some of this down, both the ways he could undermine 
vaccines as HHS Secretary and the other responsibilities that would be 
at stake.
  To start with, the CDC is under HHS. That means that the Secretary 
directly appoints people to CDC's vaccine advisory board. That board is 
responsible for making recommendations about

[[Page S880]]

vaccines, and it is those recommendations that determine whether or not 
certain vaccines have to be covered by insurance.
  So simply put, changing those recommendations will change what 
vaccines millions of Americans--including kids--will be able to get 
from their healthcare provider. If he is confirmed, there would be 
nothing stopping RFK, Jr., from firing the entire board and replacing 
them all with vaccine skeptics. After all, he has said many times and 
in many ways that he thinks CDC is corrupt and bought by Pharma--as 
usual, by the way, without any evidence.
  RFK, Jr., would also oversee the Food and Drug Administration--that 
is another Agency he has repeatedly tried to discredit and attack--
where he says he plans to fire--fire--hundreds of scientists on day 
one, at an Agency that plays the crucial role of making sure our drugs 
and our treatments, including vaccines, are safe and effective when we 
purchase them.
  Not only would Mr. Kennedy have a key perch from which he would 
undermine vaccines, on a scale like never seen before, he could also 
use that platform to peddle quack treatments with no basis in science.
  RFK, Jr., would also have jurisdiction over NIH. That alone means 
influence over billions of dollars in medical research--research that 
is responsible for a significant portion of our economy and, more 
importantly, research that patients are desperately hoping will help 
them find cures. But RFK, Jr., could redirect those funds to promote 
his favorite pet conspiracies instead of promising cures, or he could 
make good on his plans to fire hundreds of researchers and pause 
infectious disease research for 8 years.
  It should go without saying that viruses aren't going to take a 
break.
  And here is the thing: The attacks on medical research are now 
already happening under Trump. From his day one Executive orders, 
President Trump has already been threatening medical research. 
Suddenly, all of our grants are at risk because they are looking at 
addressing barriers to care or understanding why Black and Native 
American women have higher maternal death rates.
  And now President Trump is also trying to illegally, arbitrarily, and 
suddenly change NIH guidelines to set an unrealistic low cap on 
indirect cost rates. That will mean researchers laid off, studies 
canceled--including lifesaving clinical trials--and kids not able to 
get the treatment they need, all because President Trump and Elon Musk 
don't seem to understand how we actually fund important research and 
couldn't even be bothered to find out before taking an ax to our 
medical research labs.

  At a time when lifesaving research like this is already under attack 
by the President and the richest man in the world, no one who truly 
values medical research should vote to install one of the biggest 
attackers of medical science as the Secretary of HHS.
  Insurance is another huge portfolio for HHS. Last time Trump was in 
office, we saw millions of people lose their healthcare coverage. The 
uninsured rate went up after years of hard-won progress. And we all 
know he still wants to rip up the Affordable Care Act, which will drive 
up costs and kick people off their coverage.
  There is no reason to think Mr. Kennedy will stand up to that effort. 
Indeed, there is no reason to think he has the experience and 
understanding of the system to actually do so.
  During his committee hearings, RFK, Jr., confused Medicare and 
Medicaid. This is basic stuff. He failed to describe the components of 
Medicare.
  And, yes, Mr. President, I do absolutely have to talk about abortion 
care. This is of grave importance right now.
  In his hearings, not only did RFK, Jr., confess to having no real 
understanding of EMTALA--that is a law which requires patients have 
access to lifesaving, emergency care, including, in some cases, 
abortion care--he also showed that he will be totally open to 
Republicans' fact-free efforts to rip away access to medication 
abortion.
  Like so many other issues that RFK, Jr., is simply wrong about, the 
science on that has been settled for many years now. Mr. Kennedy made 
clear, though, he is very open to revisiting access to the abortion 
pill, based on a Republican argument against the science that basically 
boils down to ``nuh uh''--``nuh uh.''
  Putting up barriers to accessing the abortion pill or ripping it off 
the market completely, as Republicans have made very clear they want to 
do, would be absolutely devastating.
  And let's not forget about pandemic threats. The lies that RFK, Jr., 
spread during the last pandemic already made clear he is not the man to 
do this job. But if that weren't enough, when there was a pandemic 
threat response planning session for this new administration, he 
skipped it. He didn't go. It would be almost comical if this wasn't so 
serious.
  Everywhere you look, everything about this nominee is so concerning. 
We cannot take this man at his word--something he has changed and gone 
back and forth on time and time again. But we can take him on his 
record, which is that he has consistently undermined vaccine 
confidence, and, by the way--note--he profited from that. And we can 
take the threat of what he might do seriously, especially given the 
alarming things that are already happening.
  If RFK, Jr., gives you his word of honor that he won't freeze 
research, guess what. We are already seeing the Trump administration 
totally upend medical research. Thanks to the Trump funding freeze, NIH 
hasn't issued any grant awards in weeks.
  If RFK, Jr., swears he is not going to take down information about 
vaccines, he is not going to silence experts, well, don't look now, but 
the Trump administration has already taken down or changed CDC pages 
about vaccines. They have already silenced public health experts.
  If RFK, Jr., pinky-promises you that he won't undermine medical 
science or studies and he won't ignore global health threats, well, you 
might want to sit down for this, but President Trump has completely 
demolished our global health aid work. He has already completely 
demolished it.
  The fallout is utterly heart-wrenching. Already we know of a woman 
who died because the USAID-supported hospital she went to for oxygen 
was forced to discharge her because they got a ``stop work'' order from 
the Trump administration.
  It is not clear if she was the first death caused by Trump's complete 
freeze, but there is no question she will not be the last.
  Let me make a really important point here: It is not just people 
across the world who will be affected by this. There was a study being 
done on a new HIV treatment with thousands of volunteers--a study being 
done, already having thousands of volunteers doing the treatment--but 
now, without their regular injections, which are cut off by Trump's 
move, there is going to be too little of the drug in their system to 
protect those people from HIV, but enough of the drug that, if they 
contract HIV, it could mutate to become drug resistant.
  So for all of the absolutely unhinged conspiracies we have heard 
about medical research from RFK, Jr., and the like, where is the 
concern of this actual risk in this actual study happening right now, 
all because President Trump cut off foreign assistance?
  RFK, Jr., has been silent about that risk, silent about how wrong 
that is. And so even as he is making these empty promises on one hand 
to some of our colleagues, he is already standing by as President Trump 
breaks them on the other hand.
  Oh, and here is one more: If RFK, Jr., says he is going to consult 
you on healthcare personnel, please do not be fooled.
  Look, I don't know why my colleagues need me to tell them this. I 
like to think we have some pretty smart people around here. But this 
vote--RFK, Jr.'s own nomination--this is your consultation on 
healthcare personnel, not some made-up promise for later. This is the 
point when you have the most power.
  Whatever he might say, you don't get to choose who RFK, Jr., will 
appoint to this or that. Heck, he doesn't get to choose who President 
Trump appoints. The decision you get to make--that all of us on this 
floor get to make--is the decision before us right now.
  You get to choose whom you vote to confirm, and you will have to live 
with

[[Page S881]]

that decision. And if you ignore the warning signs and confirm RFK, 
Jr., then, when the wheels fall off the wagon, you may try to tell 
yourself you were lied to. But you knew who you were dealing with. You 
knew who you were dealing with. You knew what he said before and what 
he has refused to say. You had all the knowledge you needed to do the 
right thing.
  I cannot tell my colleagues enough: This is not a game. This is not a 
political role without consequence. The Health Secretary has real power 
over whether Americans can get basic information and care that impacts 
whether they live or die. As I have tried to drive home throughout this 
process: Vaccines save lives. That is not a question. It is not a 
slogan. It is a fact.

  If, when parents look to you worried about their newborn, wanting to 
do what is best for their baby and trusting your advice as a public 
health leader, if you cannot tell them the same truth that centuries of 
science and experience tells us, which is that vaccines are safe and 
effective and lifesaving, then you have absolutely no business leading 
the Department of Health and Human Services--none.
  And so just as I did at the hearing, I want to warn all of my 
colleagues. By merely voting to confirm Mr. Kennedy, we would be 
telling our constituents: He is worth listening to on vaccines. That 
alone will get people killed before he even lifts a finger, because he 
does not even need the levers of power to get people killed, all he 
needs is that megaphone to affirm his views by voting to confirm him as 
our highest health official.
  Let's not mince words about what that will mean. When babies die from 
whooping cough because parents weren't sure if the vaccine was safe, 
will you be able to look them in the eye? when the flu sweeps our 
nursing homes? when measles sweep through our communities? Will it be 
worth it?
  I will end on this: I am sure there are plenty of Members who know 
perfectly well just how dangerous it would be to confirm RFK, Jr. They 
don't need to hear it from me. In fact, some of them even know the 
danger better than I do.
  Here is what I do know: Conscience is a muscle. Courage is a muscle. 
The less you use them, the more they fade away. So if my colleagues are 
feeling the pressure from President Trump or if they are feeling the 
weight of the richest man in the world on their backs on this vote, I 
would warn them: This will certainly not be the last test we face here 
in the Senate. Giving in to this pressure now won't make it go away. It 
won't soften the pressure you face later, and it will not strengthen 
your resolve when the stakes are higher. It will just show pressure 
works.
  If you do not draw a line somewhere, you will cross every line you 
could ever imagine. You will be pushed further and further into 
accepting things you thought you never would, things you thought you 
never could.
  I think most of my colleagues know what is really at stake here. I 
think most of my colleagues know what sort of man RFK, Jr., is and what 
sort of damage he could do if he is confirmed.
  There are political realities. We all get that. But there is also 
right and wrong. There is fact and fiction. There is people staying 
healthy, and people dying pointlessly, kids dying pointlessly from 
diseases that we can prevent because they thought Congress took its job 
of vetting our healthcare Secretary seriously.
  So I urge my colleagues to show some courage. I urge them to show 
some conscience. I urge them to vote no on RFK, Jr.'s, nomination.
  Mr. President, I yield 3 minutes of postcloture debate time to the 
Democratic leader, and I yield the floor.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Sheehy). The Senator has that right.
  The Senator from Tennessee.