[Congressional Record Volume 170, Number 168 (Thursday, November 14, 2024)]
[House]
[Pages H5994-H5998]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                HARNESSING ENERGY AT THERMAL SOURCES ACT

  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, pursuant to House Resolution 1568, I call 
up the bill (H.R. 7409) to amend the Geothermal Steam Act of 1970 to 
waive the requirement for a Federal drilling permit for certain 
activities, to exempt certain activities from the requirements of the 
National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, and for other purposes, and 
ask for its immediate consideration in the House.
  The Clerk read the title of the bill.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to House Resolution 1568, the bill 
is considered read.
  The text of the bill is as follows:

                               H.R. 7409

       Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of 
     the United States of America in Congress assembled,

     SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

       This Act may be cited as the ``Harnessing Energy At Thermal 
     Sources Act'' or the ``HEATS Act''.

     SEC. 2. NO FEDERAL PERMIT REQUIRED FOR GEOTHERMAL ACTIVITIES 
                   ON CERTAIN LAND.

       The Geothermal Steam Act of 1970 (30 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.) 
     is amended by adding at the end the following:

     ``SEC. 30. NO FEDERAL PERMIT REQUIRED FOR GEOTHERMAL 
                   ACTIVITIES ON CERTAIN LAND.

       ``(a) In General.--The Secretary shall not require an 
     operator to obtain a Federal drilling permit for geothermal 
     exploration and production activities conducted on a non-
     Federal surface estate, provided that--
       ``(1) the United States holds an ownership interest of less 
     than 50 percent of the subsurface geothermal estate to be 
     accessed by the proposed action; and
       ``(2) the operator submits to the Secretary a State permit 
     to conduct geothermal exploration and production activities 
     on the non-Federal surface estate.
       ``(b) No Federal Action.--A geothermal exploration and 
     production activity carried out under subsection (a)--
       ``(1) shall not be considered a major Federal action for 
     the purposes of section 102(2)(C) of the National 
     Environmental Policy Act of 1969;
       ``(2) shall require no additional Federal action;
       ``(3) may commence 30 days after submission of the State 
     permit to the Secretary;
       ``(4) shall not be subject to section 7 of the Endangered 
     Species Act of 1973; and
       ``(5) shall only be considered an undertaking under 
     division A of subtitle III of title 54, United States Code 
     (commonly referred to as the `National Historic Preservation 
     Act'), if, with respect to the State in which the activity 
     occurs, there is no State law in effect that addresses the 
     preservation of historic properties in such State.
       ``(c) Royalties and Production Accountability.--(1) Nothing 
     in this section shall affect the amount of royalties due to 
     the United States under this Act from the production of 
     electricity using geothermal resources (other than direct use 
     of geothermal resources) or the production of any byproducts.
       ``(2) The Secretary may conduct onsite reviews and 
     inspections to ensure proper accountability, measurement, and 
     reporting of the production described in subsection (a), and 
     payment of royalties.
       ``(d) Exceptions.--This section shall not apply to actions 
     on Indian lands or resources managed in trust for the benefit 
     of Indian Tribes.
       ``(e) Indian Land.--In this section, the term `Indian land' 
     means--
       ``(1) any land located within the boundaries of an Indian 
     reservation, pueblo, or rancheria; and
       ``(2) any land not located within the boundaries of an 
     Indian reservation, pueblo, or rancheria, the title to which 
     is held--
       ``(A) in trust by the United States for the benefit of an 
     Indian tribe or an individual Indian;
       ``(B) by an Indian tribe or an individual Indian, subject 
     to restriction against alienation under laws of the United 
     States; or
       ``(C) by a dependent Indian community.''.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The bill shall be debatable for 1 hour 
equally divided and controlled by the chair and ranking minority member 
of the Committee on Natural Resources or their respective designees.
  The gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. Westerman) and the gentlewoman from 
New Mexico (Ms. Stansbury) each will control 30 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. Westerman).


                             General Leave

  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all Members 
may have 5 legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks 
and include extraneous material on H.R. 7409.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Arkansas?
  There was no objection.
  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I rise today in support of H.R. 7409, the Harnessing 
Energy At Thermal Sources Act, or the HEATS Act.
  First, I thank the gentlewoman from California (Mrs. Kim), my friend, 
for being a leader on this issue and working with my staff and me to 
bring this bipartisan bill to the floor.
  H.R. 7409, the HEATS Act, is a commonsense bill that would expedite 
the development of geothermal energy on non-Federal lands containing 
Federal minerals.
  Currently, geothermal operators on non-Federal land producing any 
amount of Federal resources must abide by all Federal laws and 
permitting processes, even if the share of Federal minerals is 
minuscule.
  Under this bill, such projects would still undergo a rigorous State 
permitting process but would not be bogged down by duplicative and 
burdensome Federal permitting processes.
  H.R. 7409 stipulates that geothermal wells on non-Federal lands are 
not subject to NEPA, ESA, or NHPA if the United States holds an 
ownership interest of less than 50 percent of the geothermal estate and 
the operator receives a drilling permit from the respective State.
  Notably, the bill would not impact the royalty paid to the Federal 
Government. Therefore, it would not reduce the Federal revenues 
generated by geothermal production. In fact, it would actually increase 
Federal revenues by reducing the administrative responsibilities of 
Federal agencies and expediting the permitting process for geothermal 
development.

[[Page H5995]]

  Enhanced geothermal systems, or EGS, are created by injecting fluid 
deep underground in carefully controlled conditions to create new 
fractures and causing preexisting fractures to open, increasing 
permeability below the surface. The process employs established 
technology already commonly utilized in the energy sector, and the DOE 
estimates that EGS could generate 60 gigawatts of electricity by 2050, 
which represents 8.5 percent of the U.S. generation capacity.
  The best geothermal reservoirs suitable for EGS are located in States 
with Federal minerals, including Colorado, California, Utah, Nevada, 
Idaho, New Mexico, and Oregon.

                              {time}  1315

  Mr. Speaker, Federal streamlining efforts like this bill will be 
necessary to realize EGS' full potential. Federal minerals, however, 
come with red tape.
  This bill provides a rational approach to streamlining the 
development of a proven renewable energy source. This commonsense bill 
will help spur geothermal energy development and promote American 
energy independence as part of an all-of-the-above energy strategy. I 
urge my colleagues to join me in supporting this bill.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. STANSBURY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I rise once again in opposition to another Natural 
Resources bill which, much to my dismay, I would love to have the 
opportunity to work on, on a bipartisan basis. Unfortunately, this bill 
is another technical bill that is masquerading as an effort to support 
energy development on public lands but is another assault on permitting 
processes, and, specifically, on the National Environmental Policy Act, 
or NEPA.
  Under this bill, a geothermal project that starts on non-Federal 
surface lands and drills into Federal subsurface would not need a 
Federal drilling permit if the subsurface makes up less than 50 percent 
of the total area drilled.
  If your eyes crossed when you heard me describe that technical 
language, let me explain. The Federal Government manages our Federal 
lands on the surface. That is where the soil, the trees, and all of 
that is. There is a separate permitting process for the subsurface. 
That is where we find oil and gas, other valuable minerals, and, in 
this case, geothermal resources that we may want to develop for energy 
sources. They are two different permitting processes.
  What this says is if you have a power plant or some other energy 
source on a piece of private land that is adjacent to or nearby Federal 
lands, you don't have to go through the permitting process to figure 
out whether or not the drilling from here down, across, and under our 
Federal lands would be harmful. That is crazy.
  Mr. Speaker, wouldn't we want to know as a scientific basis and a 
community basis whether or not the drilling under our Federal lands 
would be harmful for our communities? Of course we would. That is why 
we have Federal permitting laws. That is why we conduct scientific 
assessments on whether or not drilling or permitting of resource 
extraction in the subsurface is a good or bad idea.
  As we have seen in some cases, it can cause seismic activity with 
certain oil and gas operations. In other cases, it can cause 
contamination of groundwater. In other cases, it can cause subsidence 
of the surface which could damage a national park or some sort of 
sacred site for a community or just your viewshed.
  Taking away the permitting process means that folks can do things on 
private lands, using our Federal resources, without having to ask the 
public if they think it is a good idea. I am a fan of geothermal. It is 
a great energy resource. There is nothing wrong with geothermal, but 
all of our energy resources have a footprint. They all look like 
something.
  In this case, as you can see in this picture, geothermal is also an 
industrial activity. So what we are talking about is building these 
kinds of facilities which might be an energy facility on a piece of 
private land, next to your favorite national park, next to your 
favorite BLM lands where you like to go fishing, next to Tribal lands 
that are sacred and important to our Tribal communities.
  Don't you want the ability to weigh in with the Federal Government 
about whether or not you want this to be happening in your backyard? 
Again, it is just common sense. Why are we running bills that are 
trying to take away commonsense protections for our public and for the 
communities that would be impacted by them?
  Mr. Speaker, I have great respect for Representative Kim. We have 
worked on a bipartisan basis on many issues including fire and science. 
Like I said, I am a fan of geothermal. In fact, we have been working on 
a bipartisan basis with our Republican colleagues on a number of 
geothermal permitting bills. In fact, there are two of them that passed 
by voice vote here on the House floor.
  Representative Curtis' GEO Act supports efficient approval of 
geothermal permit applications without sacrificing environmental and 
community review. A lot of Members on this side of the aisle think that 
is a good idea. Why are we not trying to pass that bill? Maybe it has 
something to do with what was said during the last debate about what 
happens on January 20.
  Representative Steel's H.R. 6474 would create a narrow categorical 
exclusion--again, more technical language--for geothermal exploration 
and development in recently studied or developed areas, giving 
geothermal parity with oil and gas development. Again, going back to 
the science, if we have already done an assessment of subsurface and we 
know it is not going to have impacts, maybe it makes sense to have some 
sort of streamlined purpose.
  Mr. Speaker, to give carte blanche to private entities that might 
want to use Federal resources without creating a process to look at the 
scientific integrity, the potential environmental impacts, the 
potential community impacts, to not provide a legal process for 
communities to weigh in and potentially hold them accountable just 
doesn't make sense.
  We do have a problem with this particular approach. We would support 
responsible, well-balanced stewardship of our geothermal resources that 
do protect the public interest and do protect our Federal lands. This 
bill is not really about that.
  Mr. Speaker, while I have great respect for the intent, which I hope 
is good, behind this bill, we do need to protect the public interest as 
we develop these large-scale projects, big or small, that are adjacent 
to and that would impact the Federal subsurface.
  No matter what, we are seeing time and time again in the final waning 
hours of this Congress that our friends are trying to advance bills 
that we know are really a setup for the next administration. I urge my 
colleagues to oppose this bill. We have other bills that would address 
the needs of this industry.

  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, if we lived in a place called Utopia, a lot of this 
might be possible. I come from an engineering background. Some of the 
things I remember from those classes long ago, laws like energy can't 
be created or destroyed, it just changes form.
  It would be nice if we could get electricity in the wire without a 
geothermal plant or to mine coal or to mine gas or to build the solar 
farm. We haven't figured out how to do that yet.
  If we want energy, we are going to have to use the sources that we 
have got where they are. If we want minerals, we are going to have to 
get them out of the ground. That can be a good thing because that can 
create jobs, that can create economic growth. We can do it in a 
responsible way.
  Mr. Speaker, this bill does not remove all permitting. It requires 
landowners to still get permits from States. It has protections built 
in for the environment. It gives States and local communities a bigger 
seat at the table than to rely on some permit coming out of Washington, 
D.C., to develop a project that has a slight interest in Federal 
minerals.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentlewoman from California 
(Mrs. Kim) and commend her for bringing this bill forward.

[[Page H5996]]

  

  Mrs. KIM of California. Mr. Speaker, I thank Chairman Westerman for 
yielding and for his leadership in moving this bill forward.
  Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong support of my bipartisan bill, H.R. 
7409, Harnessing Energy At Thermal Sources Act, or the HEATS Act.
  Geothermal energy is a clean, renewable source of energy that can 
generate electricity, heat homes and buildings, and power industrial 
processes. More geothermal energy production will lower our 
environmental footprint and benefit the climate.
  Despite having a similar extraction process to that of oil and gas, 
geothermal energy is constrained by Federal permitting restrictions. 
Currently geothermal operators on nonFederal land that produce any 
Federal resources are subject to all Federal laws and permitting 
processes, even if minimal amounts of Federal minerals are present.
  My State of California is a major producer of geothermal energy and 
has ample energy resources below the earth ready to be tapped into. The 
current Federal permitting process and State regulations have hurt 
progress in harnessing this clean energy source.
  The HEATS Act would waive Federal drilling permit requirements for 
geothermal wells that are on State and private lands. This means 
geothermal operators would not need a Federal drilling permit for wells 
that are on State and private lands on which the subsurface geothermal 
estate is less than 50 percent Federal.
  Operators must still go through a rigorous permitting process at the 
State level. They will, however, no longer be burdened by the Federal 
process, allowing us to harness this untapped energy source faster.
  Mr. Speaker, H.R. 7409 is a commonsense measure that will lower costs 
for Americans, reduce emissions, protect our national security, and 
expand our energy portfolio. The Natural Resources Committee passed the 
HEATS Act by a bipartisan vote, and I look forward to this bill passing 
out of the House in a timely bipartisan manner.
  I thank my colleague Representative Duarte for co-leading the HEATS 
Act with me and, also, House Committee on Natural Resources Chairman 
Westerman for his commitment to accelerating geothermal production and 
promoting energy independence.
  Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to vote ``yes'' on H.R. 7409.
  Ms. STANSBURY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I will start by agreeing with my colleague across the 
aisle. We do not live in a Utopia where energy just magically appears.
  I completely agree that we are in a massive transition where we have 
to explore all options to produce and to supply the energy needs that 
our Nation needs in order for people to survive and to thrive, as long 
as it is done in a way that informs the community, it is done in a 
responsible, environmentally friendly way, and a way that does not 
affect climate. Of course we want our communities to have a say in what 
we do.
  I want to address what we heard: Well, it will be protected under the 
States. We are not talking about State resources. We are talking about 
Federal resources. The United States public lands belong to all of us. 
The surface, our national parks, our favorite streams on BLM lands and 
in our national forests, the subsurface belongs to the American people.

  All of the things that we have been talking about today are the 
American people's resources. The minerals that will be mined are the 
American people's minerals. The geothermal resources are the American 
people's resources. Even the oil and gas are the American people's 
resources.
  The reason why we have permitting processes is because the American 
people get to decide: Do we want to give the great riches of this 
Nation over to private companies who want to provide a good or service 
to the American people? The American people get to decide because those 
are our resources.
  Mr. Speaker, that is why we have Federal processes to determine, one, 
if it is a good idea from a scientific and engineering standpoint; and 
two, to decide if it is going to impact our communities adversely.
  Imagine going to your favorite stream to go fishing and find out that 
a permit for subsurface materials had caused the bottom to drop out and 
a land subsidence that destroyed your favorite fishing spot and nobody 
ever told you because the geothermal plant had gone in a few miles away 
and drilled underneath it.
  That is why we have Federal permitting processes. It is so that the 
American people can decide if this is what we want to do with our 
precious lands, our precious resources, and the things that belong to 
all of us.
  Mr. Speaker, there are solutions here in Congress. There are 
solutions that are supported by the vast majority of Members across the 
aisle that would protect the public interest, that would protect the 
environment, and would protect American interests in our resources.
  Unfortunately, permit streamlining that does away with subsurface 
permit authority and public comment of our democratically owned natural 
resources is not the solution. For these reasons, I oppose this bill.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.

                              {time}  1330

  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I guess things depend on the perspective 
from which you look at them. They took the geothermal plant picture 
down that was up on the other side of the aisle, but I will point out 
that if that plant were to be built on Federal lands, it would go fully 
under Federal permitting process.
  We are talking about facilities that are built on State or private 
lands that are close to Federal lands. What we are really talking about 
is not what is on the surface; it is what is below the surface.
  If the geothermal energy that is going to this facility, if 50 
percent or less of that is coming off of the Federal estate, then the 
developer would not have to go through the Federal permitting process 
but would go through the State permitting process.
  They would still pay the Federal Government the royalty for the 
geothermal energy that is coming off of the Federal estate, but they 
just wouldn't have to go through the Federal permitting process.
  You can look at that and say, oh, they are being exempted from the 
Federal permitting process, but if you look at it from the other 
perspective, why should a State or private landowner be subject to the 
Federal permitting process on their private or State land just because 
less than half of the energy that is going into this facility is coming 
off of the Federal Government?
  Should the Federal Government be dictating to States and private 
businesses and private landowners what gets developed on their land?
  Again, I guess it is just the perspective of how you look at it, but 
the one thing we know is, you can't harvest and harness this renewable 
geothermal energy that could make up 8\1/2\ percent of our electricity 
generation without getting it out of the ground and having a facility 
to utilize that.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Minnesota (Mr. 
Stauber).
  Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in support of H.R. 7409, the 
HEATS Act, introduced by my good friend from California, Mrs. Kim.
  This is an important piece of legislation that will increase our 
energy security and reliability and help lower energy costs for 
Americans across this great Nation.
  As is the case with much of our domestic energy production, 
geothermal energy is often developed on checkerboard parcels of land. 
Such a project often has a footprint encompassing Federal, State, and 
private lands.
  When that is the case, it is a headache for our energy producers as 
it often means more red tape and more regulatory hoops for energy 
developers to jump through.
  These duplicative regulatory requirements increase the time it takes 
to get projects online, along with price tags for these projects to get 
moving. Ultimately, that means higher energy costs for the American 
people.
  Mr. Speaker, the bill before us today will help fix this project for 
geothermal projects by cutting down on the number of duplicative 
regulatory reviews a project developer needs to go through.

[[Page H5997]]

  This bill would prevent the BLM from having to permit geothermal 
wells on State and private lands where the Federal Government holds an 
ownership interest of less than 50 percent of the geothermal estate. 
These projects, which have already gone through a rigorous State 
permitting process, would not be bogged down by the duplicative and 
burdensome Federal process.
  Contrary to what some may argue, this bill doesn't waive the 
permitting process; it simply reduces the redundancy.
  It is a commonsense fix. It will bring much-needed geothermal energy 
production online, providing much-needed energy to the American people 
at a much lower cost.
  Mr. Speaker, I urge all of my colleagues to join me in supporting 
this legislation.
  Ms. STANSBURY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume. While I appreciate that part of the debate has been framed as 
a difference in perspective, it is actually a difference in the actual 
facts on the page of what the bill says.
  Let me read to you from the bill that is being proposed to be passed 
right now.
  In General, the Secretary--they are talking about the Department of 
the Interior--shall not require an operator to obtain a Federal 
drilling permit for geothermal exploration and production activities 
conducted on non-Federal subsurface estates.
  I know this is confusing. They are talking about those lands that the 
Feds manage for the American people. The claim that was just made was 
that, oh, this isn't about exempting Federal permitting, that is what 
the bill says. Mr. Speaker, I am reading from their bill.
  Now, it has the specific reasons under which the permit would be 
allowed to be excluded, and, as was stated, it says: ``The United 
States holds an ownership interest of less than 50 percent of the 
subsurface estate. . . .''
  Now, I love when my colleagues across the aisle claim that industry 
is so confused and that is why we have to streamline these bills.
  I ask the American people: When you hear this language, does it sound 
streamlined? I don't think so.
  Mr. Speaker, I have a very high-tech drawing I will use to help the 
American people understand what they are talking about here.
  You have got this geothermal energy producer. Here is a good example 
of a power plant using geothermal. If they are taking subsurface 
geothermal resources from private lands, let's say this side, and over 
50 percent of their geothermal resources are coming from the private 
side, they are saying, if you drill down underneath this plant and go 
under your favorite national park, your favorite stream on BLM lands, 
your favorite place to go fishing on public lands, they don't have to 
get a permit. They can just do it. That is what the bill says.
  This isn't a difference of perspective, it is literally what the bill 
is trying to do, and that is to exempt Federal permit requirements on 
the Federal subsurface estate adjacent to private lands.
  The claim that State permitting would apply is not true. State 
permitting only applies to private lands. State permitting requirements 
do not apply to Federal lands. Even if you have a State permitting 
regime like States that protect the environment, it is not going to 
help you over here on the Federal estate.
  If you live in a State where there are not State environmental 
protections for the environment, then guess what? You are screwed.
  That is why we are trying to protect the Federal estate and the 
community and environmental interests here. We are not trying to stop 
geothermal. As I said, we are fans. Let's do this, but let's do it in 
an environmentally responsible and community-informed way.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume. I appreciate the gentlewoman pointing out the language on page 
3 of the bill. I will point that out too because it says, ``The 
Secretary shall not require an operator to obtain a Federal drilling 
permit for geothermal exploration and production activities conducted 
on a non-Federal surface estate. . . .''
  I think most people would agree that we don't want the Federal 
Government telling States and private landowners that they have to 
obtain a Federal permit to extract energy off of their land. That is 
exactly why we are proposing this bill, and it is not coming from the 
standpoint that the government knows best, that somebody sitting here 
in D.C. in a nondescript cubicle should be telling somebody thousands 
of miles away how to develop their land. No.
  We shouldn't require Federal permitting on State and private land, 
which is what we are talking about. That is what this bill would do. It 
is only in the case where when you get below the surface, if more than 
50 percent of the geothermal energy is coming off of Federal land, then 
you still have to go through the Federal permitting.
  If it is less than 50 percent, then the State permitting would rule. 
It is a commonsense bill. It would promote economic development. It 
would promote renewable energy development. It is a bill that needs to 
be passed.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from California (Mr. 
Duarte), who also worked closely on this bill.
  Mr. DUARTE. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to support H.R. 7409, the HEATS 
Act.
  This bill will assist working families, small businesses, and the 
geothermal energy producers streamline the permitting process for one 
of the cheapest and cleanest energy sources. We are talking about steam 
coming out of the ground and creating electricity. That is what we are 
talking about today.
  Geothermal is a big word. Let's not miss that. This is simply turning 
steam out of the ground into electricity.
  One of the cheapest and cleanest energy sources in the United States 
is prioritized and supported by the Federal Government. During a 
Natural Resources hearing earlier this year, I asked Federal regulators 
what we, the people, gain by requiring a Federal permitting process on 
geothermal energy, one of the cleanest, cheapest energy sources in the 
world.
  There was no coherent answer. Instead of restricting geothermal 
energy, we should be supporting and encouraging advancements in this 
field. Currently, the Bureau of Land Management is practicing 
regulation by imagination, with no real instances of negatives of 
geothermal energy production.
  I am proud to work with Representative Kim to take the necessary 
steps to make it easier to produce clean, affordable geothermal energy 
in California.
  California produces more geothermal energy than any other State, but 
the Bureau of Land Management is preventing California from growing our 
clean energy to our fullest potential. This bill ensures that 
geothermal energy producers do not need to obtain a Federal permit if 
they are drilling on land that is not owned by the Federal Government.
  With this commonsense change, we can grow our geothermal energy 
production. This would provide cheaper energy to working families, 
create good-paying jobs in California, and cement California and the 
United States as a global clean energy leader.
  Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to support H.R. 7409. It is a 
commonsense bill that will lower energy costs for working families.
  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to close, and I reserve the 
balance of my time.
  Ms. STANSBURY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume. I will go back to the language of the text. As I read the text 
as it appears on the page as introduced, it is seeking to exempt 
Federal permitting requirements for the subsurface estate, so that 
means Federal resources.
  They are saying, if it is private land on top but public on the 
bottom, you don't have to get a permit. That is what they are saying.

  Now, I know that boggles the mind for some folks, but that is 
essentially an American resource. The people of this country should 
have a say as to whether or not they want an energy plant to go in, for 
drilling to happen under their lands, for resources to be extracted. It 
is just common sense.
  Mr. Speaker, I will also make the point that there were some comments

[[Page H5998]]

made about the administration trying to restrict geothermal. That is 
just patently untrue.
  This is not about trying to restrict or trying to stop geothermal; 
this is just about maintaining the existing requirements that we have 
in protecting American resources in the subsurface so that the 
taxpayers get a fair shake and that the American public can say whether 
or not they think it is a good idea to have a private company drilling 
and removing resources under our feet. It is common sense.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. STANSBURY. Mr. Speaker, H.R. 7409 is another loophole disguised 
as permitting reform and streamlining. It would create a path for 
geothermal projects to bypass critical environmental and community 
reviews based on arbitrary line drawings and new convoluted, not 
streamlined, language regarding the Federal subsurface estate.
  It sets a dangerous precedent. I know they keep saying this is about 
streamlining and making it easier. This bill is not common sense when 
you read it. It would allow more energy projects to move forward 
without community input and oversight.
  We have already worked on bipartisan solutions. We already have some 
bills that we all agree on, but here we are debating, in the final 
hours of this Congress, a bill that would do away with just basic, 
commonsense public input through the process.

                              {time}  1345

  We didn't spend a lot of time talking about it today, but the Federal 
agency that manages our subsurface, the Bureau of Land Management, has 
raised legitimate concerns about this bill, opposes this bill, and has 
warned that it would undermine our ability to enforce safety 
regulations, to uphold environmental laws, to do Tribal consultation, 
and to ensure that these projects are aligned with our multiple-use 
mandate, meaning we can protect our public lands for other uses.
  As experts on the process, we have to listen to these folks. This is 
what they do every day.
  We understand that there are opportunities to improve permitting. It 
is part of why we passed the Inflation Reduction Act. It is part of why 
we are making an over $1 billion investment in expediting the 
permitting process and helping to get energy projects on the ground.
  We are in the middle of a major energy transition, but we can't do 
that in an irresponsible manner by fast-tracking projects that need 
public input.
  All energy projects have impacts, and this bill takes away the 
opportunity to just take a look and give the opportunity for the public 
to weigh in.
  We have to keep this in mind as we move forward and work to build a 
more just and sustainable future where our communities continue to have 
a say in what we do with the Federal estate, whether it is on the top 
or it is underneath our feet.
  For these reasons I urge a ``no'' vote on H.R. 7409, and I yield back 
the balance of my time.
  Mr. WESTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time.
  In closing, I would like to urge my colleagues to vote in support of 
H.R. 7409. The HEATS Act would expedite geothermal energy production by 
removing the requirement that geothermal operators receive a Federal 
drilling permit for wells on State and private lands where the 
subsurface geothermal estate is less than 50 percent Federal.
  Operators would still be required to receive State permits and 
approval but would be exempt from Federal permitting regulations like 
NEPA, the ESA, and section 106 of the National Historic Preservation 
Act. That is a mouthful of words, but let's look at in practicality.
  We are talking about a geothermal production facility that is going 
to have a footprint on the surface of the land. It is going to be on 
the surface of State or private land. Then we are going drill a hole 
thousands of feet into the ground, an 8- to 12-inch in diameter hole 
that is going to go a mile or so deeper, maybe 2 miles deep into the 
ground. Then it is going to turn horizontal, and it is going to start 
picking up geothermal energy from a large area.
  What my friends across the aisle seem to want to do is to invoke a 
NEPA permit on a hole in the ground 2 miles deep. They want to be able 
to implement the ESA because of a hole in the ground 2 miles deep. They 
want to do a National Historic Preservation assessment because of a 
hole in the ground 2 miles deep.
  What they really want to do is be able to link this private facility 
on State or private land back to the Federal Government so they can use 
these laws that are well-intentioned, well-meaning laws to stop that 
facility from being built on State or private land.
  There is no environmental benefit of doing an ESA analysis on a hole 
in the ground 2 miles deep. There is no historical preservation that is 
going to be improved by permitting a hole 2 miles deep, not when this 
has already been through a robust State permitting process and these 
States have requirements and regulations for developing energy 
resources within their borders. What this does is it eliminates 
duplicative bureaucracy at the Federal level that has no intent or 
purpose other than to impede geothermal energy development.
  This bill will lower emissions and energy costs for American families 
and strengthen U.S. energy independence. Accelerating renewable 
geothermal production and deployment is a win for our economy, our 
national security, and the environment.
  Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to 
support this bill, and I yield back the balance of my time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. All time for debate has expired.
  Pursuant to House Resolution 1568, the previous question is ordered 
on the bill.
  The question is on the engrossment and third reading of the bill.
  The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time, and was 
read the third time.


                           Motion to Recommit

  Ms. STANSBURY. Mr. Speaker, I have a motion to recommit at the desk.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will report the motion to 
recommit.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Ms. Stansbury of New Mexico moves to recommit the bill H.R. 
     7409 to the Committee on Natural Resources.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 2(b) of rule XIX, the 
previous question is ordered on the motion to recommit.
  The question is on the motion to recommit.
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the noes appeared to have it.
  Ms. STANSBURY. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.
  The yeas and nays were ordered.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 8 of rule XX, further 
proceedings on this question are postponed.

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