[Congressional Record Volume 170, Number 96 (Wednesday, June 5, 2024)]
[House]
[Pages H3661-H3664]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




     MILITARY CONSTRUCTION, VETERANS AFFAIRS, AND RELATED AGENCIES 
                        APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2025

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to House Resolution 1269 and rule 
XVIII, the Chair declares the House in the Committee of the Whole House 
on the state of the Union for the further consideration of the bill, 
H.R. 8580.
  Will the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. Yakym) kindly take the chair.

                              {time}  0915


                     In the Committee of the Whole

  Accordingly, the House resolved itself into the Committee of the 
Whole House on the state of the Union for the further consideration of 
the bill (H.R. 8580) making appropriations for military construction, 
the Department of Veterans Affairs, and related agencies for the fiscal 
year ending September 30, 2025, and for other purposes, with Mr. Yakym 
(Acting Chair) in the chair.
  The Clerk read the title of the bill.
  The Acting CHAIR. When the Committee of the Whole rose on Tuesday, 
June 4, 2024, amendment No. 42, printed in part B of House Report 118-
535, offered by the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Self), had been disposed 
of.


               Amendment No. 43 Offered by Mr. Schweikert

  The Acting CHAIR. It is now in order to consider amendment No. 43 
printed in part B of House Report 118-535.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mr. Chair, I have an amendment at the desk.
  The Acting CHAIR. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
  The text of the amendment is as follows:

       Page 26, line 24, after the dollar amount, insert 
     ``(increased by $1,000,000)''.
       Page 35, line 23, after the dollar amount, insert 
     ``(reduced by $1,000,000)''.

  The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to House Resolution 1269, the gentleman 
from Arizona (Mr. Schweikert) and a Member opposed each will control 5 
minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mr. Chair, I thank the Chairmen, and one of my 
favorite ranking members.
  Mr. Chairman, part of what we are trying to accomplish here--we are 
going to have two amendments basically in different categories doing 
this--is if we look over some of the GAO reports from the last couple 
of years, some of the issues we have had in claims payment processing, 
if we actually look at the last GAO line items, long-term services 
support, GAO thought there was about $38 billion in questionable 
issues. If we come down on even some of the pension processing, there 
is about $10 billion in questions.
  We are in the age of sort of a miracle of technology.
  We also know, when we read over some of the reports coming out of the 
VA, there are issues on trying to hire staff, trying to hire staff that 
is qualified, to handle the amount of claims and data and those things 
that come in. All we are trying to do here is sort of push in the 
direction of using the technology that is now amongst us.
  Many of us will refer to AI, but, in some ways, it is bigger than 
that. It is an algorithm. It is AI, but it is the ability to use data 
to mine through to see that this is where things aren't working the way 
they should, here is where we are missing, and here is where there is 
fraud.
  The first amendment is on expediting claims. If you have claims and 
they are fitting certain formats, the fact of the matter is you should 
be able to go through them at an incredibly rapid rate with an 
incredibly high level of accuracy if you adopt the technology.
  Our argument is that getting the technology right is moral. It is 
also fiscally really sensible.
  Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the 
amendment, even though I am not opposed to it.
  The Acting CHAIR. Without objection, the gentlewoman from Florida is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
  There was no objection.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, this amendment is 
noncontroversial, and I appreciate the kind words of the gentleman from 
Arizona (Mr. Schweikert), and I feel the same.
  I am not opposed to it. It supports artificial intelligence 
technologies to expedite VA claims, and anything we can do to expedite 
VA claims efficiently and effectively is worthwhile.
  Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gentlewoman from Florida 
(Ms. Wasserman Schultz) for the purpose of a colloquy.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chair, I would be happy to engage in a 
colloquy.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. You have a much higher degree of expertise. Both of 
you do in regard to VA issues. I do taxes and Medicare financing.
  One of the reasons we were hopeful about this is because it is sort 
of a closed ecosystem. It gives us the chance, as we have learned with 
a number of pilot programs, to use this because we know the rules here, 
and we are saying: Here is a chance to do a test, a pilot program, and 
if it works with the VA, then, hopefully, our future is being able to 
move it into other parts of the government.
  Am I being unrealistic?
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Using artificial intelligence and anything we 
can do to efficiently and effectively make sure that we can assist the 
VA in processing claims is a good thing. We are likely at the nascent 
stage of being able to use that kind of technology.
  As this is an increase-decrease amendment, essentially it gives you 
an opportunity to come here and talk about the importance of 
highlighting the need to expedite claims, which are improving. 
Thankfully, we are in a much better place in terms of the backlog. I 
know Secretary McDonough is very focused on making sure that we can 
continue to do that. Having your advocacy on the floor today is helpful 
in spotlighting the issue and making sure that we can advance at a more 
rapid rate.
  Mr. Chair, I yield back to the gentleman.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the gentlewoman being 
willing to tolerate me and engage in that.
  Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The Acting CHAIR. The question is on the amendment offered by the 
gentleman from Arizona (Mr. Schweikert).
  The question was taken; and the Acting Chair announced that the ayes 
appeared to have it.
  Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr. Chair, I demand a recorded vote.
  The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to clause 6 of rule XVIII, further 
proceedings on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Arizona will 
be postponed.


               Amendment No. 44 Offered by Mr. Schweikert

  The Acting CHAIR. It is now in order to consider amendment No. 44 
printed in part B of House Report 118-535.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mr. Chair, I have an amendment at the desk.
  The Acting CHAIR. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
  The text of the amendment is as follows:


[[Page H3662]]


  

       Page 36, line 18, after the dollar amount, insert 
     ``(reduced by $10,000,000) (increased by $10,000,000)''.

  The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to House Resolution 1269, the gentleman 
from Arizona (Mr. Schweikert) and a Member opposed each will control 5 
minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mr. Chair, this is sort of a derivative of the 
previous amendment. The previous amendment was to speed up and expedite 
claims. This one is actually now to crawl through, and if my colleagues 
geek out like I do on how the artificial intelligence crawls through 
data stacks and can identify outliers or patterns, this one actually 
utilizes that same sort of data to streamline oversight, to reduce 
fraud, to basically identify where you have areas that are saying: This 
doesn't look right. Why is there a difference between different parts 
of the VA or different parts of the country?
  The amendment is specifically focused on financial management. Where 
one is moving claims and helping veterans be able to see what their 
benefits are and moving it faster, this one actually looks at the books 
because we have to have a moment of honesty.
  If Members basically take the number of veterans that use the VA and 
divide it by the spending, you are somewhere around $38,000 per veteran 
that use the facilities. That is an outlier in any category of 
healthcare.
  Could this help us understand what we are doing well, but also where 
there are outliers? In some ways, this was a way to help me deal with 
my discomfort with the costs per delivery. I couldn't identify what was 
wrong. This should help GAO and other experts simply identify that the 
VA is doing this great, but we have an issue here.
  I am hoping this technology brings that to the surface.
  Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I claim time in opposition to 
the amendment, even though I am not opposed to it.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without objection, the gentlewoman from 
Florida is recognized for 5 minutes.
  There was no objection.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, this amendment is 
noncontroversial. I am not opposed to it.
  It supports artificial intelligence to assist the VA with its audits 
and financial management systems. It is an increase-decrease amendment, 
and I do not oppose it.
  Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mr. Chairman, to the Members here: I appreciate the 
kind words.
  Mr. Chairman, we are on the edge of a revolution of being able to 
understand these massive data sets. If we do this well, maybe the 
constant conversation we have here between the left and the right of 
government, the spending and lack of money issues--are we about to step 
up and start to embrace the technology that may make what we do, what 
we are responsible for, better, faster, cheaper, and maybe in some ways 
because of that efficiency, more moral?
  Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The Acting CHAIR. The question is on the amendment offered by the 
gentleman from Arizona (Mr. Schweikert).
  The question was taken; and the Acting Chair announced that the ayes 
appeared to have it.
  Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr. Chair, I demand a recorded vote.
  The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to clause 6 of rule XVIII, further 
proceedings on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Arizona will 
be postponed.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I rise as the designee of the 
gentlewoman from Connecticut (Ms. DeLauro).
  Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word.
  The Acting CHAIR. The gentlewoman is recognized for 5 minutes.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gentlewoman from 
Massachusetts (Ms. Clark), the distinguished minority whip.
  Ms. CLARK of Massachusetts. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentlewoman for 
yielding.
  This month marks 2 years since extreme MAGA Republicans dismantled 
Roe v. Wade, subjecting American women to reproductive oppression not 
seen for half a century. For the other side of the aisle, it is still 
not enough.
  In Texas, Republican Members unleashed bounty hunters on pregnant 
women. In Ohio, my Republican colleagues prosecuted a woman for having 
a miscarriage. In Alabama, the majority shut down fertility treatments. 
Today, in the United States Capitol, Republicans have chosen their next 
target: Our veterans.
  Today, Republicans are telling 2 million women veterans that, if they 
need an abortion to save their life, the VA should turn them away. That 
MAGA ideology matters more than our veterans' health, their freedom, 
even their survival.
  There was a time in this Chamber when we would unite behind our 
country's flag and the patriots who serve under it, but in this version 
of the Republican Party, extremism has displaced patriotism. The 
majority is so consumed by fanaticism that my colleagues on the other 
side of the aisle would hijack our VA budget and threaten the very 
women who defended their freedom to speak in this Chamber.
  My colleagues should be ashamed to play a part in this attack on our 
Nation's heroes. What a craven abandonment of oath and country.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my 
time.


                 Amendment No. 45 Offered by Mr. Steube

  The Acting CHAIR. It is now in order to consider amendment No. 45 
printed in part B of House Report 118-535.
  Mr. STEUBE. Mr. Chair, I rise as the designee of the gentleman from 
Texas (Mr. Self), and I have an amendment at the desk.
  The Acting CHAIR. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
  The text of the amendment is as follows:

       At the end of the bill (before the spending reduction 
     account) insert the following:
       Sec. __.  None of the funds made available by this Act may 
     be used to pay to an individual employed in a Senior 
     Executive Service position (as such term is defined in 
     section 3132(a) of title 5, United States Code) at the 
     Department of Veterans Affairs a critical skills incentive 
     under section 706(d) of title 38, United States Code.

  The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to House Resolution 1269, the gentleman 
from Florida (Mr. Steube) and a Member opposed each will control 5 
minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida.
  Mr. STEUBE. Mr. Chairman, I rise to urge support for Congressman 
Self's amendment, which will prohibit the funds from this bill to be 
used to give critical skills incentive, or CSI, bonuses to senior 
executives at the VA Central Office.
  Recently, the VA Office of Inspector General released a report that 
found that the VHA and the VBA improperly awarded over $10 million of 
these bonuses to senior bureaucrats in the VA Central Office. What is 
worse is that this was no technical glitch or error. This was a 
strategic move by the Under Secretaries of Health and Benefits to line 
the pockets of D.C. bureaucrats.
  Just this week, we held a hearing in the House Veterans' Affairs 
Committee where Secretary McDonough tried to explain their actions. 
However, their actions are inexcusable. Meanwhile, this is a slap in 
the face to rank-and-file VA employees, such as the nurse making sure a 
veteran has a quality visit to a VA hospital or the caseworker 
assisting a veteran with a claim, who will work their tails off day in 
and day out to serve our heroes.
  I served in the U.S. military, and one of the guiding principles is 
that leaders eat last. Clearly, in this instance, the bureaucrats at 
the VA ate first.

                              {time}  0930

  This is why I have sponsored this amendment, which would prohibit the 
VA from using these bonuses to pad the pockets of their bureaucratic 
friends, and I urge my colleagues to support this amendment.
  Mr. Chair, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chair, I claim the time in opposition to 
the amendment.
  The Acting CHAIR. The gentlewoman from Florida is recognized for 5 
minutes.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chair, I believe the gentleman from

[[Page H3663]]

Florida misspoke, so let me make clear that this amendment prohibits 
incentive bonus payments to anyone in the senior executive service in 
the entire VA, not just the central office.
  Let's be clear what this amendment does. It goes much further than 
the gentleman described. The VA has acknowledged that they made a 
mistake in issuing bonus payments to certain employees in the VA 
central office and they have taken steps to address this error and 
recoup these funds.
  In fact, 92 percent of these funds have already been recouped and the 
remaining will likely be recovered soon.
  This issue is on its way to being resolved. It is an administrative 
mistake, and this amendment is completely unnecessary and takes a 
sledgehammer where a chisel would be more appropriate. This amendment 
would go further by disincentivizing dedicated public servants from 
serving the VA by preventing any merit-based bonuses, not just from the 
central office as the gentleman from Florida described.
  We should be investing in ways to attract talent to the VA and this 
amendment takes us backward. Humans make mistakes. That is the reality, 
and I think all of us would acknowledge that we have made some mistakes 
in our lives. Sometimes big ones, but we shouldn't be cutting off our 
nose to spite our faces by taking away merit-based bonuses for the 
entire senior executive service at the VA going forward.
  We already have a recruitment and retention problem, and we have 
trouble attracting top-quality talent to devote their lives to public 
service and their careers to public service. Do we think that taking 
away any opportunity for a merit-based bonus is going to improve that 
situation?
  This is outrageous overkill when the VA has already addressed this. 
This is an irresponsible amendment that I urge Members to oppose 
because we would be hurting our own ability to retain and recruit top-
quality talent at the VA.
  People make mistakes. This is administratively being taken care of, 
and we need to just make sure that we can move on and not seek out a 
solution in search of a problem.
  Mr. Chair, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. STEUBE. Mr. Chair, VA money and the money that is appropriated by 
this body from taxpayers should go to the service of our veterans and 
not to millions of dollars in bonuses for senior bureaucrats.
  Mr. Chair, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chair, I think if you take a look at the 
expenditures made by many Members of Congress in our offices, you would 
see that we responsibly use some of our funding to provide bonuses for 
the service of our own employees. That happens all across the Federal 
Government, just like it does across the private sector. It happens a 
lot less significantly understandably because public service is a noble 
profession, one that people choose to engage in; however, we want to 
make sure that we attract top talent to public service.
  Eliminating the ability for the entire VA to provide that kind of 
merit-based bonus is irresponsible, and it will make it less likely 
that we have the top-quality talent willing to make the sacrifice to 
come and serve our veterans at the VA.
  Why would we do that? That makes no sense. This was an error. It is 
being corrected. It is almost completely corrected. Unfortunately, the 
gentleman from Florida and the sponsor of this amendment are going way 
too far and hurting our ability to make sure that we can take care of 
our veterans with the top talent that they deserve.
  Mr. Chair, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The Acting CHAIR. The question is on the amendment offered by the 
gentleman from Florida (Mr. Steube).
  The question was taken; and the Acting Chair announced that the ayes 
appeared to have it.
  Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr. Chair, I demand a recorded vote.
  The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to clause 6 of rule XVIII, further 
proceedings on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Florida will 
be postponed.


                 Amendment No. 46 Offered by Mr. Steube

  The Acting CHAIR. It is now in order to consider amendment No. 46 
printed in part B of House Report 118-535.
  Mr. STEUBE. Mr. Chair, I have an amendment at the desk.
  The Acting CHAIR. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
  The text of the amendment is as follows:

       At the end of the bill (before the short title) insert the 
     following:
       Sec. __.  None of the funds appropriated by this Act may be 
     used by the Department of Veterans Affairs to process medical 
     claims for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Health 
     Service Corps at the Department of Homeland Security.

  The Acting CHAIR. Pursuant to House Resolution 1269, the gentleman 
from Florida (Mr. Steube) and a Member opposed each will control 5 
minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida.
  Mr. STEUBE. Mr. Chair, I rise today in support of my amendment that 
would prohibit the Department of Veterans Affairs from using any funds 
under this bill to process medical claims for Immigration and Customs 
Enforcement.
  In December of last year, I led a letter to the VA, along with 23 
other Republican Members, after receiving reports that the VA had 
contracted with ICE to process medical claims for illegal aliens in ICE 
custody.
  Considering the record numbers of illegal aliens streaming across our 
border, thanks to the Biden administration's reckless policies, we were 
concerned that the VA personnel were being taken away from their 
mission to serve our veterans.
  I am pleased that the underlying bill prohibits the VA from providing 
benefits directly to illegal aliens; however, my amendment is still 
necessary to ensure that the VA resources are focused solely on 
veterans since the current interagency arrangement allows the VA to 
provide this service to ICE.
  The VA exists to serve American veterans who risked their lives to 
protect our great country. For far too long, the VA has fallen short in 
its mission: ``To fulfill President Lincoln's promise `To care for him 
who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan' by 
serving and honoring the men and women who are America's veterans.''
  Unfortunately, veterans continue to experience unacceptable wait 
times in receiving medical care and disability benefits. In particular, 
the VA's disability claim backlog has been a source of significant 
frustration in the veteran community.
  After several years under the Trump administration in which the VA 
disability claims backlog was consistently under 100,000 claims, the 
backlog has nearly tripled under the Biden administration to 278,000 as 
of last week. This is an abject failure, and our veterans deserve 
better from the VA.
  Despite the longstanding issues with its claims backlog and customer 
service issues, VA personnel are being tasked with serving claims for 
government-funded healthcare for illegal immigrants, not veterans.
  VA resources should be used solely for veterans and their survivors. 
Congress appropriates funds to the VA to provide services to our 
veterans, not illegal immigrants. Our veterans serve our country, and 
it is high time that our government starts serving them.
  Mr. Chair, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chair, I claim the time in opposition to 
the amendment.
  The Acting CHAIR. The gentlewoman from Florida is recognized for 5 
minutes.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chair, the VA provides a purely 
administrative function for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to 
process medical claims.
  Moreover, ICE pays for these services, not the VA. There are no funds 
in this bill to prohibit being spent. ICE pays VA to process their 
medical claims. This is an amendment that doesn't even apply to funding 
in our bill.
  This amendment is misplaced, and it conflates the services that the 
VA actually provides with the larger issue of immigration because our 
friends on the other side of the aisle never miss an opportunity to 
bash immigrants who are simply trying to come to this country and make 
a better way of life for themselves and their families. It is, once

[[Page H3664]]

again, injecting unnecessary policy debates into a historically 
bipartisan bill. It is another poison pill, culture war rider.
  Whatever your position is on immigration, this amendment does not 
belong in the MILCON-VA bill and does nothing to move us forward toward 
better healthcare and services for our veterans.
  The reality is, if the gentleman's amendment passes, then ICE would 
have to stand up an entirely separate process that would have to be set 
up to process these claims because the claims have to get processed if 
VA didn't manage it for them.
  That would be incredibly expensive, fiscally irresponsible, and makes 
no sense, but, again, we shouldn't miss an opportunity to bash 
immigrants.
  Mr. Chair, I urge my colleagues to oppose the amendment, particularly 
because this amendment purports to prohibit funds from being spent that 
you can't spend because they are not in this bill.
  Mr. Chair, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. STEUBE. Mr. Chair, the gentlewoman just admitted that the VA is 
administratively using resources to help illegal immigrants. I think 
the VA's mission, being a veteran myself, should be to support 
veterans, not illegal immigrants.
  In my first Congress, I served on the VA Committee, and you heard 
time and time again, despite adding more and more money to the VA, they 
can't deal with the backlogs. If they need more funds to do that, then 
why are we using resources that are at the VA to assist illegal 
immigrants and the processing at ICE?
  I think that is completely unconscionable, not only as a veteran and 
somebody that served this country, but I think if the people in my 
district certainly knew that money and resources that was appropriated 
to the VA are being used to help illegal immigrants through ICE, would 
be completely objectionable to everybody in my district.
  Mr. Chair, I ask all of the Members of this body to support this 
great amendment, and I yield back the balance of my time.
  Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ. Mr. Chair, perhaps the gentleman has selective 
hearing because there are no funds being spent by the VA to process 
these claims because ICE pays the VA from their budget to process the 
claims.
  There are no resources that are expended by the VA because the 
funding comes from ICE's budget. This amendment is inapplicable to our 
bill and is just a culture war opportunity to bash immigrants. It is 
irresponsible. It is also fiscally irresponsible because the claims 
from ICE have to get processed, and they would have to stand up an 
entirely separate claims processing system in order to get those claims 
processed.

  This saves money and does not take any funding away from processing 
claims for our veterans.
  Mr. Chair, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The Acting CHAIR. The question is on the amendment offered by the 
gentleman from Florida (Mr. Steube).
  The amendment was agreed to.
  Mr. RUTHERFORD. Mr. Chair, I move that the Committee do now rise.
  The motion was agreed to.
  Accordingly, the Committee rose; and the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. 
Steube) having assumed the chair, Mr. Yakym, Acting Chair of the 
Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that 
that Committee, having had under consideration the bill (H.R. 8580) 
making appropriations for military construction, the Department of 
Veterans Affairs, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending 
September 30, 2025, and for other purposes, had come to no resolution 
thereon.

                          ____________________