[Congressional Record Volume 169, Number 63 (Monday, April 17, 2023)]
[House]
[Pages H1755-H1757]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                      THE MYSTERIOUS DEBT CEILING

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of 
January 9, 2023, the Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. 
Biggs) for 30 minutes.


                             General Leave

  Mr. BIGGS. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all Members may 
have 5 legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Arizona?
  There was no objection.
  Mr. BIGGS. Mr. Speaker, we are going to talk tonight about this debt 
ceiling, this mysterious debt ceiling that we hear so much about. I am 
joined by two of my colleagues who have strong ideas about this, as 
well.
  I want to just relate something to America, so you can hear this.
  We had a meeting several weeks back talking about the debt ceiling. I 
don't think anybody had ever asked this question, and I started asking 
it at every meeting. I said: How much does the Biden administration 
want to raise the debt?
  We stand at $34.1 trillion now. We spend $6.1 trillion a year, but we 
raise $4.9 trillion. Every month, we fall short by about $100 billion.
  I said: How much do they want?
  Well, when I first started asking the question, everybody says: I 
don't know. We don't know.
  Now, it is $4 trillion. That is what I am hearing, $4 trillion. 
Tonight, we heard $3.5 trillion. In any event, it is $3.5 trillion to 
$4 trillion.
  I asked the next question. I said: Look, I really want to know what 
happens if we don't lift the debt ceiling. I don't know. These guys 
might have been there.
  The fellow was nonplussed. This former deputy at the OMB, the Office 
of Management and Budget, an economist, stood there for probably 2 
minutes. Nobody had ever asked him that question before. He says: 
Nothing. Nothing will happen.
  I said: How can that be? I am hearing that it is collapse city. Tell 
me, how can that be?
  He said: All the bills go to OMB. They get forwarded on to the Fed, 
and they all get paid as they come due. They just keep paying them.
  I am here to tell you that the debt ceiling is mysterious. It is a 
black box. It is the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. And it is time 
for us to face the facts.
  If they are going to try to leverage us, then we have to do something 
to make this more responsible, this spending more responsible, and get 
our budget back together.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Montana (Mr. Rosendale).
  Mr. ROSENDALE. Mr. Speaker, I thank Representative Biggs, my good 
friend from Arizona, for yielding.
  Mr. Speaker, President Joe Biden wants to raise the national debt by 
more than $3 trillion over the next 2 years. Washington is bleeding 
American taxpayers dry with their addiction to spending, with no end in 
sight to this endless financial disaster.
  The U.S. already has roughly $31.6 trillion in debt, with no concrete 
plan to pay it back. Most folks cannot even fathom how much money that 
truly is.
  Congress can avoid raising the debt ceiling almost indefinitely by 
returning spending to pre-COVID levels and practicing fiscal 
responsibility.
  On March 28, my colleagues and I proposed targeted cuts to nondefense 
discretionary spending that would reduce the deficit by $100 billion 
over the next year and reduce the total spending by more than $1 
trillion over the next decade.
  I am proud to cosponsor over 500 bills that were introduced by 
Representative   Andy Biggs to achieve this. These are concrete, 
commonsense proposals to eliminate woke and wasteful spending from our 
Federal Government.
  We must rescind unspent COVID-19 money and stop funding the radical 
left's wish list, like the IRS expansion, wasteful green energy 
projects, and student loan bailout.
  Congress can still pass a strong budget that protects Social Security 
and Medicare benefits without having to raise the debt ceiling at all. 
Yet, Democrat leaders have yet to respond to this proposal, and the 
President has made it clear that he is unwilling to work with any 
Republicans.
  Biden's proposed budget of $6.8 trillion represents a nearly 32 
percent increase in spending since the COVID-19 pandemic began.
  Mr. Speaker, Mr. President, my fellow colleagues, the pandemic is 
over. The Federal Government was big in 2019. The American people were 
taxed enough already in 2019.
  When the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act passed, it lowered Federal taxes for 
all Americans and led to the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. It 
has generated nearly $1 trillion a year more in Federal revenue.
  It is inappropriate for the President to ask the American people for 
even more of their hard-earned money when there is still over $100 
billion in unspent COVID relief money lying on the table.
  There are too many wasteful organizations and woke government 
programs that do almost nothing for the American people while costing 
them billions each year in increased spending and increased regulatory 
burdens.
  In fact, the Congressional Budget Office produces a long list of 
Federal departments, programs, and agencies

[[Page H1756]]

that are no longer authorized, but many of these programs still receive 
funding.
  This is just one example of the countless ways that Congress could 
address our spending addiction.
  Mr. Speaker, our deficit is getting worse every year. Congress has 
failed in its duty to provide sound stewardship of the American 
finances, and we are all facing the consequences of this failure.

                              {time}  2130

  Worse yet, the consequences of our decisions will fall on the future 
generations of Americans.
  We all need to come together and find a solution to this problem and 
shrink Washington and grow America.
  Mr. BIGGS. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman from Montana. He 
mentioned unauthorized programs that we are continuing to fund. There 
are more than 1,200 Federal programs that are unauthorized right now. 
$500 billion. That is what we spend every year for those 1,200 
unauthorized programs. Congress hasn't authorized them. They have 
expired. We haven't reauthorized, but we are still spending $500 
billion a year. People wonder what is crazy about D.C. Well, let me 
give you one more datapoint.
  That same meeting that we were talking about, the gentleman was 
getting ready to leave, this economist, and then we had a former head 
of OMB there with us. I asked them: Can you tell me how many agencies 
there are in the Federal Government?
  The answer was ``no.''
  I said: What?
  He said: Nobody knows. That is hard to believe. I couldn't believe 
it. I did some more digging. Nobody can tell me. Nobody can tell me how 
many Federal agencies there are. We can tell you how much we are 
spending. We are spending over $100 billion every month more than we 
bring in.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Good).
  Mr. GOOD of Virginia. Mr. Speaker, I thank Chairman Biggs, my friend 
from Arizona for his leadership on this all-important issue. I also 
thank my friend from Montana and his remarks just a moment ago.
  Mr. Speaker, the Founders gave, in the Constitution, the authority 
for spending to the House of Representatives. It is the House of 
Representatives that most directly reflects where the American people 
are, what the American people's wishes are on a Federal level. It is 
not the White House. It is not the Senate. It certainly is not the 
Supreme Court. It is the people's House, the House of Representatives, 
which proportionally represents everyone across the country equally 
with some 800,000 citizens per representative.
  It is the House of Representatives that has the responsibility to 
ensure our ability to pay our Nation's debts and to protect the credit 
or the borrowing capacity for when it is necessary of the United States 
Federal Government.
  We talk often about what are the greatest threats to the country. 
There are numerous existential threats to our country right now, I 
would submit like never before in the history of the United States, 
brought on by the policies of this administration, Mr. Speaker, and 
those who had the majority of both Houses for the previous 2 years.
  Whether it is the open border where some 6 to 7 million illegals have 
swarmed into our country, facilitated and helped by this 
administration's policies. Whether it is our broken education system, 
our indoctrination on our college campuses, our K-12. Whether it is the 
weakening of our military, our failures on the national stage. Whether 
it is the threat of China. Whether it is our national debt and our 
spending.
  As we address tonight and discuss the national debt and the spending 
and the debt ceiling issue, the spending piece of this, the 
responsibility of the House is not just addressing that issue, but how 
we manage the United States' spending. The Federal spending addresses 
all of the other issues: to utilize the power of the purse, to stop 
funding the harmful policies. Not just the wasteful reckless spending, 
but the literal harmful spending that is making our country less safe, 
less secure, less prosperous, and less free.
  As we talked specifically about the national debt, it has been said 
already tonight, over $31 trillion. I happen to serve on the Budget 
Committee. A couple of weeks ago we brought before our committee, once 
again, OMB Director Shalanda Young, the Biden administration's budget 
director--funny term to apply budget director to anybody in this 
administration, Mr. Speaker--as we were having a chance to question the 
budget director for the Biden administration, I asked Ms. Young: What 
is the national debt? She could not tell me. She said it was somewhere 
around maybe $24 trillion. I corrected her that it was over $31 
trillion.
  I asked her: How much does that equate to per American citizen? She 
did not know. I helped her with the fact that it is nearly $100,000 for 
330 million American citizens. $100,000 per citizen. That means about 
$300,000 per taxpayer or per family.
  Mr. Speaker, I then asked her what is the percentage of debt to GDP? 
She did not know, Mr. Speaker. She thought it might be 90-some percent. 
I helped her with the information that it is about 125 percent debt to 
GDP ratio.
  I asked: When was the last time it was that high in the history of 
our country? She did not know. I helped her to realize that it was 
World War II.
  To follow up on what my friend from Arizona (Mr. Biggs) was saying a 
moment ago. We also had--another committee that I serve on, another 
caucus I am a part of, the Republican Study Committee--Federal Reserve 
Chairman Powell--he spoke to us about interest rates and about trying 
to bring down inflation. He shared his remarks. Once again, he did not 
deal with the issue of the national debt. He didn't even bring it up. 
He didn't bring up the Federal spending.
  I said to him: What is the number one cause of inflation?
  Historically, when we raise interest rates, we are trying to what?
  Cool a hot economy to ward off a recession. Instead, we have caused 
the inflation with the spending, and now we are making it worse on the 
American people by raising the interest rates in a futile attempt to 
reduce inflation in a weak economy and making things worse for the 
American people.
  Mr. Speaker, with respect to the remarks a few moments ago from my 
colleague from Arizona (Mr. Biggs), I led a letter to Treasury 
Secretary Janet Yellan asking her about what Mr. Biggs was speaking 
about a moment ago.

  What is her plan to ensure we do not have a default when we reach the 
debt ceiling limit?
  How will she prioritize spending to ensure we don't result in a 
default when we reach that debt limit?
  We have not gotten satisfactory answers to that.
  Mr. Biggs is exactly right, Mr. Speaker. When we exhaust these so-
called extraordinary measures, which part of my letter also asked: When 
will we exhaust those? How is that determined? We have not gotten 
satisfactory answers to that.
  But the fact is, when we reach the debt limit and we can no longer 
utilize gimmicks and clever tactics to try to extend that, we will 
simply have to prioritize our spending. We have got a record $5 
trillion coming into the Treasury. Never happened before in the history 
of the country. Frankly, because of the Trump Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, 
which has done what always happens in history when you cut taxes, you 
get more income and more revenue.
  Don't let the Democrats or the administration lie to us, Mr. Speaker, 
and tell us we have a deficit because of the tax cuts. That is simply 
not true, with $5 trillion in revenue coming into the Treasury for the 
first time in history.
  However, as Mr. Biggs said, we are spending over $6 trillion if we 
reach the debt limit, and we can no longer delay through these 
extraordinary measures. We will simply have to prioritize spending. 
That is why they don't want to do it. That is why they want your $3 or 
$4 trillion, as Mr. Rosendale and Mr. Biggs stated a few moments ago, 
because they don't want to prioritize spending.
  There is more than enough revenue coming in to fund Social Security 
and Medicare. There is more than enough revenue to pay the interest on 
the debt. We would simply be forced to cut discretionary spending.

[[Page H1757]]

  We have a plan that we in the House Freedom Caucus have put forward 
to cut somewhere in the range of $1.5 trillion immediately out of the 
gate. Mr. Biggs led the way on this with 500 bills with 500 specific 
target cuts toward those 1,200 unauthorized, but still appropriated in 
the previous Congress' programs. That would save us another $500 
billion so that we would never have to raise the debt ceiling again if 
we have the immediate $1.5 trillion in cuts now, and we use the 
appropriations process this fall to cut even further.

                              {time}  2140

  Mr. BIGGS. I thank the gentleman for his remarks.
  May I inquire of the Speaker how much time I have remaining?
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Arizona has 14 minutes 
remaining.
  Mr. BIGGS. Mr. Speaker, HFC put in a proposal just recently. I think 
this is really important. The idea is to shrink Washington and grow the 
country again. We proposed it in early March.
  The first thing is we cancel the student loan forgiveness plan which 
totals $609 billion. We cut the wasteful, woke, weaponized spending 
programs and get the Nation back on track. We eliminate Green New Deal 
tax credits and subsidies.
  I recently scored it at 350. I am told now it is $400 billion. 
Between those two items alone, Mr. Speaker, we are moving towards $1 
trillion.
  We cut the IRS expansion. We already passed that out of the House. 
That is $80 billion. We take into account the 500 targeted reductions 
that we have made. Maybe we don't do all of them. Maybe we just do half 
of them. Maybe we do 50, 70, $85 billion worth.
  Then I will tell you something else, Mr. Speaker, that you have to 
do. You take back the COVID money that we sent out. There is about $80 
billion of that that hasn't been spent. Bring that back.
  All of that is in the first year, and I haven't even talked about 
reductions. That is the rescissions.
  Then we start reducing, and we can make it targeted. We can do the 
discretionary.
  Guess what?
  We start getting to a place where we are not in the hole $100 billion 
per month.
  How about doing that for a year?
  How about doing that for a year?
  I am told that a lot of these folks don't really want to do that, and 
I find that hard to believe.
  So in fiscal year 2024 alone, if we add to what I just outlined, what 
we proposed, what we cosponsored, those 500 bills, we just want you to 
look at them for mercy's sake.
  If we took all of them, then we would be a little over $100 billion 
in savings in fiscal year 2024 alone.
  There are ways out of this, aren't there?
  But it is going to take some courage and some discipline. Quite 
frankly, part of the reason that I wanted to do this tonight is I am 
hearing all the time that we don't know where you guys are.
  I say: How can you not know where I am?
  I have been so explicit, and I am transparent. Everybody knows where 
Biggs is because Biggs doesn't keep his mouth shut.
  This is where we need to be. We need to be telling the truth. The 
American people need to understand clearly what is about to happen to 
them. What is about to happen to them is they are going to raise that 
debt ceiling. Somebody is going to raise the debt ceiling.
  The idea that they are talking about now--just so people know--is 
anywhere from 1.5 to $4 trillion. That is what they are talking about.
  They are going to trade it for 10 years with maybe $3.5 to $4 
trillion in reductions in savings, net savings--not even net savings, 
I'm sorry to say that, gross savings.
  So over here on that ledger, Mr. Speaker, you have to get $4 trillion 
over 10 years. But if you raise the debt ceiling by $1.5 to $4 trillion 
over that year, 18 to 24 months, now extend that out for the rest of 
that 10-year cycle.
  We are not raising the national debt by $24 trillion. We are raising 
it by $19 trillion.
  So we are still hitting 50-plus trillion dollars because we didn't 
have the courage to make the reductions and the hard choices this year.
  My favorite thing to hear around here is that we are going to have a 
10-year plan to balance the budget. Mr. Speaker, I could go back and 
show you from 15 years ago. They still relive that first year over and 
over again because it is like deja vu.
  So this year they are telling everybody: We are going to do a 10-year 
plan. It is going to be great. We think we can get balanced in 10 
years. We are going to have to make some tough decisions.
  But next year they will come back and say: We have got a 10-year 
plan. You have to make some tough decisions.
  Two years they will come back and say: We have a 10-year plan.
  Do it now. Do it now.
  People tell me: You are conflating the budget with the debt ceiling.
  Do you know why, Mr. Speaker?
  Because I can tell you that if we don't do it now in the debt 
ceiling, when that budget comes around, you are going to have an 
omnibus bill. You are going to have an omnibus bill. That is what is 
going to happen. That may not work, so you get a CR.
  Part of the package that HFC put out is that if you end up with a 
mandatory CR, then you start reducing funding on that. So you never 
have a government shutdown, which is in some ways too bad, quite 
frankly.
  Then we have also proposed adding the REINS Act. The REINS Act says 
that before a bureaucratic agency can impose rules on anything that 
will impact more than--it is $100 million--I think that is way too 
high. It should be like $10 million, but they are telling me it is $100 
million--then we have to bring it back to Congress.
  I think that is a great place to start.
  Do you know why, Mr. Speaker?
  We have delegated our authority to bureaucracy. So we have the 
bureaucracy out there, and they are making rules. That is the same 
thing as legislating. They are enforcing the rules. That is the 
executive branch power. They are adjudicating whether you have 
committed a violation of the rules and fining you.
  In some cases most of the 40,000 crimes that are Federal in nature 
were created under the rulemaking process.
  Mr. Speaker, I am just telling you: Our government is out of control, 
and our spending is out of control.
  Guess what, Mr. Speaker?
  If we went back to 2019 levels--which is what we have proposed--if 
you go back to 2019 levels which nobody would say: Oh, we had too 
little government in 2019. If you go back to those levels, Mr. Speaker, 
guess what?
  You can pay it because we were spending about $5 trillion, and now we 
are bringing in about $5 trillion. So let's go back to the 2019 levels, 
for Pete's sake, and then let's do the rescissions to boot, and let's 
stop the seemingly endless cycle of a national debt increase.
  If we do that, then we stop the imminent bankruptcy of this country, 
we stop the devaluation of our currency around the world, and we stop 
the inflationary pressures. Then once we do things like reduce some 
more taxes, reduce some more regulations, and get some better energy 
production, then we will, again, be the world's economic leader.
  I am just here to tell you, Mr. Speaker, we have got a plan. We 
presented our plan. I don't think anybody should ever say that Mr. 
Good, Mr. Rosendale, Mr. Biggs, and the half dozen others or so, that 
they don't know where we are. I have never voted to raise the debt 
ceiling. I don't think that is what I was sent here to do, and I am 
finding it awfully hard to believe that there is any justification for 
raising it $2 to $4 trillion.
  I encourage everyone to understand that we can put an end to this 
cycle of self-immolation.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.

                          ____________________