[Congressional Record Volume 168, Number 195 (Thursday, December 15, 2022)]
[House]
[Pages H9863-H9867]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                    VA EMPLOYEE FAIRNESS ACT OF 2021

  Mr. TAKANO. Madam Speaker, pursuant to House Resolution 1518, I call 
up the bill (H.R. 1948) to amend title 38, United States Code, to 
modify authorities relating to the collective bargaining of employees 
in the Veterans Health Administration, and ask for its immediate 
consideration in the House.
  The Clerk read the title of the bill.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to House Resolution 1518, an 
amendment in the nature of a substitute consisting of the text of Rules 
Committee Print 117-71 is adopted, and the bill, as amended, is 
considered read.
  The text of the bill, as amended, is as follows:

                               H.R. 1948

       Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of 
     the United States of America

     SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

       This Act may be cited as the ``VA Employee Fairness Act of 
     2021''.

     SEC. 2. MODIFICATION OF AUTHORITIES ON COLLECTIVE BARGAINING 
                   OF EMPLOYEES OF THE VETERANS HEALTH 
                   ADMINISTRATION.

       (a) In General.--Section 7422 of title 38, United States 
     Code, is amended--
       (1) by striking subsections (b), (c), and (d); and
       (2) by redesignating subsection (e) as subsection (b).
       (b) Rule of Construction.--The amendments made by 
     subsection (a) may not be construed to affect the authorities 
     of the Secretary of Veterans Affairs regarding incentive pay 
     and expedited hiring under section 706 of title 38, United 
     States Code, or other similar provisions of law.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The bill, as amended, shall be debatable for 
1 hour equally divided and controlled by the chair and ranking minority 
member of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs or their respective 
designees.
  The gentleman from California (Mr. Takano) and the gentleman from 
Illinois (Mr. Bost) each will control 30 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California.


                             General Leave

  Mr. TAKANO. Madam Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all Members 
may have 5 legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks 
and to insert extraneous material on H.R. 1948, as amended.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from California?
  There was no objection.
  Mr. TAKANO. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Madam Speaker, I rise in support of my bill, H.R. 1948, as amended, 
the bipartisan VA Employee Fairness Act. This legislation ensures 
important collective bargaining rights for all frontline healthcare 
workers who care for our veterans.
  As chairman of the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs, I have made 
veterans' healthcare one of my top priorities. I know my colleagues on 
both sides of the aisle strongly support our veterans and the benefits 
they earn.
  This bill presents an opportunity to match words with action. The VA 
Employee Fairness Act will ensure critical protections for the 
healthcare workers serving our veterans.
  As a Nation, we must invest in these frontline workers at VA 
hospitals. Our veterans need modern, well-designed hospital and 
clinical buildings equipped with the latest, most advanced medical 
devices and equipment and stocked with adequate medical supplies.

                              {time}  1030

  However, all this means little without a well-trained workforce ready 
to serve our veterans. That is why collective bargaining is vital.
  Frontline healthcare workers deserve the right to organize 
themselves. They deserve to have a voice. VA nurses or technicians 
should be able to point out wrongdoing without fear of losing their job 
or other forms of retaliation.
  All of this sounds like common sense, and it is, and this is what 
collective bargaining is all about.

[[Page H9864]]

  My bill will bring parity to the Federal workforce by ensuring full 
collective bargaining rights for all VA employees.
  Under current law, almost all Federal employees have basic worker 
protections through collective bargaining. They can become members of a 
labor union. They have a way to raise grievances and seek redress. They 
are allowed to have the support of union representatives. This has long 
been part of the fabric of the Federal workforce.
  But there is one glaring exception. Many of the frontline healthcare 
workers within VA hospitals and clinics are barred from collective 
bargaining.
  Title 38 healthcare professionals, such as registered nurses, 
physicians, dentists, and physician assistants, do not have the same 
rights as the psychologists, social workers, pharmacists, and licensed 
practical nurses who work side by side with them.
  I will note that the same professionals at Department of Defense 
hospitals have collective bargaining rights. You heard that right. A 
registered nurse has collective bargaining rights at DOD but not a 
registered nurse at VA. This is the kind of legal contortion that 
should be fixed.
  This probably sounds arbitrary, and it is. A list was written up by 
Congress years ago and depending on your specialty of nursing care or 
other occupation, someone taking care of veterans is either able to 
have full rights as an employee or not, and this only happens at VA 
healthcare facilities.
  The bill is cosponsored by 218 of our congressional colleagues, and 
it has the support from those who represent frontline VA healthcare 
workers, including the American Federation of Labor and Congress of 
Industrial Organizations, National Nurses United, National Federation 
of Federal Employees, National Association of Government Employees, 
Service Employees International Union, the National Veterans Affairs 
Council, and a dozen other national labor unions. Further, this bill 
has the endorsement of Vietnam Veterans of America and The American 
Legion.
  I wish to point out what VA said in its testimony when my committee 
held a legislative hearing on it last year. ``Secretary McDonough has 
stated publicly and to our workforce that a unionized workforce is a 
strong workforce. Collective bargaining is a powerful means for a 
strong workforce which is VA's number one asset as we work toward 
increasing access and outcomes for veterans, their families, 
caregivers, and survivors. VA supports organized labor and values in 
the collective bargaining process with our labor partners.''
  I agree. This is about building and maintaining a strong workforce, a 
workforce dedicated to serving our veterans. I will share a real-world 
example of the importance of collective bargaining at VA.
  In an issue that rose to U.S. District Court, the Central Texas VA 
Healthcare System failed to pay nurse practitioners and physician 
assistants overtime. When the healthcare workers demanded what was due 
to them, VA resisted.
  The case was arbitrated in favor of the employees, but VA then used 
its authority under title 38 to argue that the grievance should not be 
addressed.
  There is nothing fair about that.
  This outdated provision in Federal law has become an excuse for VA to 
deny workers the benefits they have rightfully earned. Stories like 
these hardly represent an incentive for nurses to remain in the 
Department.
  H.R. 1948, as amended, will ensure that VA employees have the ability 
to seek redress when VA does not follow its own rules and policies.
  Some of my colleagues will argue that this means labor unions will 
start making veteran healthcare decisions, but this is, quite simply, 
not the case. Under Federal law, VA healthcare workers do not have this 
power. No Federal healthcare worker with collective bargaining rights 
has this power. Nor do their labor unions.
  In fact, the current law stipulates that Federal employees with 
collective bargaining rights are limited in what they can bargain for.
  Unlike in the private sector, Federal workers who have collective 
bargaining rights cannot strike, and they cannot bargain over their 
level of pay. Pay levels are set by the civil service pay grades each 
year and are not subject to collective bargaining.
  Title 38 employees should have the same rights as those governed by 
title 5. Title 38 employees should have the same rights as their 
colleagues with whom they work side by side serving our veterans. H.R. 
1948, as amended, is all about fairness for VA's frontline workers.
  VA is going to be ramping up hiring over the next 5 years as it 
welcomes 3.5 million more veterans into the VA healthcare system after 
the passage of the Honoring our PACT Act. In order to attract the most 
qualified workforce to serve our veterans, we need to ensure that VA is 
a great place to work.
  The employees who are on the front lines of our Nation's veterans' 
healthcare deserve and need basic worker protections. A VA nurse needs 
to be able to ask that their pay errors will be resolved. A doctor must 
feel empowered to raise medical safety concerns without fear of 
reprisal or retaliation. Without these protections, VA will continue to 
struggle to recruit and retain the best and brightest medical 
professionals that our country has to offer, and I fear that veterans' 
health and well-being will suffer as a result.
  This is about fairness, and I am pleased that the administration 
agrees and has issued a statement in support of this legislation.
  Madam Speaker, I include in the Record the Statement of 
Administration Policy.

                   Statement of Administration Policy


H.R. 1948--VA Employee Fairness Act of 2022--Rep. Takano, D-CA, and 218 
                               cosponsors

       The Administration supports House passage of H.R. 1948, the 
     VA Employee Fairness, Act of 2022, to expand collective 
     bargaining opportunities for covered Federal employees.
       The Biden-Harris Administration supports worker organizing 
     and empowerment as critical tools to grow the middle class 
     and build an inclusive economy. The Federal government, 
     consistent with its obligations to serve the public, can be a 
     model employer in this regard.
       The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is responsible for 
     the delivery of safe, effective, and timely patient care for 
     our veterans, and dedicated VA employees work tirelessly to 
     support our veterans' health needs, including in combating 
     COVID-19.
       The Administration is committed to continuing to work with 
     Congress to support hard-working employees while protecting 
     veterans' access to the care and services that they have 
     earned through service to the Nation.

  Mr. TAKANO. Madam Speaker, in closing, I urge my colleagues to 
support H.R. 1948, as amended, the VA Employee Fairness Act. It 
represents the right thing to do for those who care about our Nation's 
veterans. I wholeheartedly support this bill, and I urge my colleagues 
to vote for its passage. I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. BOST. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Madam Speaker, I rise today in opposition to H.R. 1948 and the VA 
Employee Fairness Act.
  First, I really think that we need to take a moment to clear up some 
very confusing things on what this bill does.
  Some have said that the VA medical staff are not allowed to unionize. 
That is not true. That is not true. Today, VA doctors, nurses, and 
dentists are allowed to collective bargain. Hundreds of thousands of 
medical staff are unionized.
  But they are not specifically allowed to use union grievances 
procedures for matters of, and I will quote the law, direct patient 
care, clinical competence, peer review, and pay. These very specific 
exceptions were made for a reason.
  The Secretary is responsible for ensuring veterans receive high-
quality and timely healthcare. To do that, he or she must have the 
authority to make difficult decisions to keep hospitals running safely 
and to put veterans first. That is the Secretary's first mission, and 
he or she must continue to provide care even in the worst of times.
  However, H.R. 1948 will tie the Secretary's hands, and I worry 
enactment of this legislation would put patients at risk. Let me say 
that again. Put patients at risk. The main goal of the VA is to take 
care of our veterans.
  Now, for example, the Secretary may remove a provider from direct 
patient care because the care they are performing is substandard. I 
fear this bill would allow a third-party arbitrator to second guess--to 
second guess from a position that they are not trained in

[[Page H9865]]

the field that they are trying to second guess--the Secretary's 
decision to remove that provider from direct patient care.
  My colleagues on the other side of the aisle will argue that this is 
not going to happen, yet not one of them can say with 100 percent 
confidence that that is not the case. In fact, it may happen. 
Unfortunately, bad actors and subpar providers do exist, and when they 
harm veterans or pose a risk, they need to be removed from patient care 
quickly.
  It is also not hard to believe that the expanded grievance process 
envisioned by this bill could paralyze hospitals over the issue of 
patient care, clinical competence, and pay.
  In that scenario, care would be delayed; wait times would increase; 
critical illnesses would go undiagnosed; costs would go up; most 
importantly, veterans would suffer.
  And the Secretary would fail to carry out the VA's first mission and 
responsibility to our veterans.
  This is exactly why medical staff at major healthcare systems like 
Mayo Clinic, Kaiser, Intermountain Healthcare, and the Cleveland Clinic 
are generally not unionized and do not allow arbitration to be used 
over patient care.
  Neither should VA. The care of my fellow veterans must come before 
everything else.
  Now, I am going to tell you this because you need to know. I, myself, 
was a union firefighter, and I come from a union family, so I believe 
in our unions, and my concerns about H.R. 1948 do not mean I am blind 
to issues raised by unions at the VA.
  Allegations that the Secretary is abusing his authority are something 
that I take very seriously. It is the job of this committee to conduct 
aggressive oversight to ensure veterans get the care that they need, 
and the VA workforce is treated fairly.
  Unfortunately, my friends on the other side of the aisle did not take 
a critical look at the Secretary's use of his authority; there was no 
oversight hearing, there were no public investigations, no work to 
address the allegations made by the unions. Instead, my colleagues have 
moved forward to pass sweeping legislation to turn over Congress' 
responsibility to arbitrators. I can't support that.
  Madam Speaker, I urge my colleagues to put veterans first and oppose 
this legislation. I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. TAKANO. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume. 
Before I yield to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Green), I would like to 
rebut some of the points that the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Bost), 
my good friend, has made.
  I believe that the gentleman from Illinois is misreading the law. 
H.R. 1948 will not allow the types of impacts that he has described. 
H.R. 1948 amends section 7422 of title 38. This is true. However, it is 
title 5 statutes overall that define the scope of collective bargaining 
for Federal workers.

  Most importantly, title 5 states that collective bargaining does not 
include policies, practices, and matters ``to the extent that such 
matters are specifically provided by Federal statute.''
  There are many laws which define the scope of collective bargaining. 
For example, if H.R. 1948 were enacted, title 38 section 7464 of the 
United States Code is still on the books. This law controls 
disciplinary appeals boards. I remind my colleagues that H.R. 1948 
would only allow unions to grieve items under its contract with the 
department, and if it is not in the contract, a grievance cannot occur.
  Furthermore, my colleague from Illinois (Mr. Bost) has made the 
assertion that doctors and nurses don't have collective bargaining 
rights outside of VA, or he pointed out a specific example of the Mayo 
Clinic. There are many, many wonderful, great, effective medical 
organizations that do have employee unions as part of their workforce, 
and so what he is stating is simply not true.
  Hundreds of thousands of registered nurses and advanced practice 
registered nurses, including nurse practitioners, are represented by 
labor unions and have full collective bargaining rights. Full 
collective bargaining rights. We are not talking about full collective 
bargaining rights in this particular instance of H.R. 1948.
  There are whole unions for physicians and dentists that have existed 
for more than 50 years, and this includes many hospitals in New York 
and California. At UC San Francisco, over 5,000 nurses are represented 
by National Nurses United, and doctors are represented by Committee of 
Interns and Residents, which is part of SEIU.

                              {time}  1045

  Furthermore, DOD healthcare clinicians have collective bargaining 
rights, including nurses and physicians.
  Madam Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. 
Green), my good friend and cosponsor of H.R. 1948, a member of the 
Committee on Financial Services, chairman of the Subcommittee on 
Oversight and Investigations. He also serves on the Homeland Security 
Committee.
  Mr. GREEN of Texas. Madam Speaker, I greatly appreciate the gentleman 
according me the time. I thank the ranking member for being here, a 
dear friend, as well.
  Madam Speaker, and still I rise. I rise today as the Representative 
of those persons who work in the VA hospital in Houston, Texas, known 
as the Michael E. DeBakey hospital, one of the finest, in my opinion, 
because it is in my Congressional district, the finest VA hospital in 
the world.
  I go there quite regularly. In fact, annually, we go into that 
hospital and we deliver flags to every veteran that is in the hospital. 
We will order a thousand flags this year to deliver to the hospital.
  We give them a copy of the Constitution. We work with not only the 
administration but also the nurses and the doctors at the hospital. We 
are there for celebrations. We are actively involved with the VA.
  This is one of the reasons why I believe I have some insight as to 
H.R. 1948. I support it fully, and I do so because it is the thing that 
every employee here has in our offices.
  I shouldn't say every. If you are in management, I think you may be 
excluded.
  But I voted for that to give them the right to organize, and I am 
talking about here in Congress. I also am a member of a labor union, 
Local 1550. I am a dues checkoff member. So it would be completely 
anathema to my philosophy for me to conclude that these nurses and 
these physicians should be denied rights that I have, when I'm a part 
of a labor union, or others do--and right here in Congress we have 
people with these rights--it would just be out of character for me.
  That is just not all of it. I understand the importance and the value 
of the right to organize and to bring to the attention of people who 
can make a difference some of the issues that are impacting patients 
that the administration won't be aware of. And there are many people 
who won't want to speak up simply because they fear retribution.
  The right to organize is the right to speak up and understand that 
you can do so without retribution.
  I would also add that this right to organize does not accord the 
workers the right to strike. They are not going to go on strike. They 
are not going to shut down a VA hospital. They are not going to have 
the ability to cause the management to have to take some extreme 
measures. This is just to give people the opportunity to talk about the 
things that are important to the patients.
  We are really doing something for the patients today. We are giving 
them more power by allowing the workers to organize.
  Madam Speaker, I stand by what I have said, and I support H.R. 1948.
  Mr. BOST. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Madam Speaker, in response, as we have talked about the concerns we 
have heard from the employees, how do we really know the bill is 
needed? Because the Democrats have never, in nearly 2 years of working 
on this bill, they did not hold one oversight hearing. Not one.
  They did not call the Secretary and answer the allegations that the 
group pushing for this legislation is asking for. They didn't conduct 
public investigations into those allegations. They simply passed a bill 
out of committee, on a party-line vote, over a year ago.
  Madam Speaker, it is our committee's job to hold the Secretary 
accountable, and all of the administration,

[[Page H9866]]

over these employees. I would have gladly worked with the Democrats to 
do that. Sadly, that is not what happened.
  Now, we are coming out here on the 11th hour of our last week or two 
of being here, and we are jamming through an 11th-hour bill with no 
clear idea that it does what my colleague says it does.
  How can we support legislation like this in the last hour? That is 
why they call this lameduck. It is because we try to shove things 
through right at the last.
  This has not been vetted. It did not have more hearings. We did not 
do our job when it came to what our job is on oversight. We could have 
handled this a different way.
  Madam Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. TAKANO. Madam Speaker, I would remind my colleague from the State 
of Illinois that this bill more than adequately went through regular 
order.
  We held a legislative hearing in April of 2021. The bill has garnered 
218 cosponsors of our colleagues, each of whom has presumably reviewed 
the bill before they joined as cosponsors. We put the bill through a 
regular markup, and I have been in regular consultation with the 
Secretary of the VA about this bill. And most recently, the White House 
has issued a Statement of Administration Policy in support of the bill.
  So to say that this bill is being rammed through at the 11th hour is 
patently untrue and not accurate.
  Madam Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from New York (Mr. 
Higgins), my good friend and cosponsor of this bill. He serves on the 
Budget Committee and is a member of the House Committee on Ways and 
Means.
  Mr. HIGGINS of New York. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentleman for 
yielding.
  Madam Speaker, I rise today in support of the VA Employee Fairness 
Act. We rely on the work of dedicated healthcare professionals to care 
for our veterans who risk their lives for our country. Yet, our laws do 
not provide an adequate voice for those workers to ensure care is of 
the highest quality.
  The COVID-19 pandemic showed us why that voice is necessary.
  This bill changes that by granting all VA healthcare providers the 
same collective bargaining rights. It means that healthcare workers can 
have a greater say in protecting patients, ensuring clinical 
competence, and setting wages and benefits.
  It would provide rights for over 100,000 VA doctors, nurses, 
dentists, and chiropractors, including more than 350 nurses at the 
Buffalo VA Medical Center.
  I am proud to be one of 218 cosponsors of this bill on the floor 
today, and I urge my colleagues to please support it.
  Mr. BOST. Madam Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time.
  Madam Speaker, in closing, there are several things I will say about 
this bill. One of the most important things to realize is that these 
employees have something that other medical employees around this 
Nation don't have. They have the Committee on Veterans' Affairs to 
argue on their behalf, if problems occur; that we would give oversight 
and give guidance and direction to our Secretary.
  Now, there are far too many questions that remain unanswered about 
H.R. 1948:
  We can't say for certain this bill won't jeopardize veterans' care--
the primary mission of the VA.
  We can't say the Secretary is abusing his authority because the 
Democrats did not have an oversight hearing on this issue.
  We can't say that the bill will really do what my colleagues say it 
will do.
  If Congress can't answer those questions, we are not doing our job. 
We can't in good faith pass H.R. 1948 without knowing these answers. We 
owe our veterans and taxpayers that much.
  Madam Speaker, I encourage all my colleagues to oppose H.R. 1948, and 
I yield back the balance of my time.
  Mr. TAKANO. Madam Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time to 
close.
  Madam Speaker, I just remind the gentleman from Illinois that I did 
cite an egregious example of the VA ignoring the conclusions of an 
arbitrator in a patently unfair way.
  Giving our title 38 employees the right to organize and the right to 
be represented by unions in such cases where a very legitimate 
grievance arises, I think is a basic principle of fairness, in 
fairness.
  Let us think about what our veterans sacrificed. Let us think about 
what they put the uniform of their country on to fight for. They fought 
for our freedoms. They fought for our rights. They fought for basic 
fairness.
  I have often said on this floor, that supporting our veterans is 
neither about being red or blue, but red, white, and blue. And I say to 
you that it is red, white, and blue to support the very principles that 
our veterans fought for. They fought for fairness. They fought for 
dignity. If you look at authoritarian countries around the world, they 
not only close the churches down, they not only close civil society 
down, but they close down real, independent unions, as well.
  So if we are faithful to the principles of our Republic, we will 
stand up not only for religious institutions, not only for civil 
society, not only for your right and my right to say what is on our 
mind, but we will also fight for the right and defend the right of 
employees to organize and to unionize.
  In this case, it is a very limited circumscribed form of collective 
bargaining, far more circumscribed than the very union that my 
colleague, who is a firefighter, I am willing to bet that his union had 
a far more robust ability to exercise collective bargaining than the 
very employees that we are trying to empower today.
  Madam Speaker, I urge my colleagues to support H.R. 1948, and I stand 
squarely behind it.
  Madam Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Ms. JACKSON LEE. Madam Speaker, I rise in support of H.R. 1948, the 
VA Employee Fairness Act of 2021. Throughout my career in Congress, I 
have always supported our veterans as well as those at the VA who 
serve, assist, and treat our veterans, especially those who have health 
care needs, so that they can optimally enjoy their post-service life.


 =========================== NOTE =========================== 

  
  December 15, 2022, on page H9866, in the third column, the 
following appeared: Madam Speaker, I yield back the balance of my 
time. Mr. JACKSON LEE. Madam Speaker, I rise in support of H.R. 
1948, the VA Employee Fairness Act of 2021. Throughout my career 
in
  
  The online version has been corrected to read: Madam Speaker, I 
yield back the balance of my time. Ms. JACKSON LEE. Madam Speaker, 
I rise in support of H.R. 1948, the VA Employee Fairness Act of 
2021. Throughout my career in


 ========================= END NOTE ========================= 


  Thus, I strongly support the VA Employee Fairness Act, which would 
repeal provisions that exclude matters concerning professional conduct 
or competence, peer review, or adjustment of employee compensation from 
the applicability of collective bargaining rights for Veterans Health 
Administration employees.
  Specifically, H.R. 1948 restores full collective bargaining rights to 
VA healthcare professionals including nurses, physicians, dentists, and 
physician assistants.
  This long overdue legislation grants millions of VA hospital 
employees the same collective bargaining rights that are already 
afforded to all other federal healthcare workers.
  The ability to negotiate better working conditions and better wages 
is a fundamental right to all Americans in the workforce.
  When this bill passes, it will give a voice to the nurses and doctors 
who work long and treacherous hours to treat and care for our veterans 
when they return home from service.
  Millions of veterans will live the rest of their lives with 
disabilities due to service-incurred injuries and physical impairments 
that resulted after they made the decision to protect our nation and 
safeguard our freedom.
  Our courageous service members have pledged that, on the battlefield, 
they will leave no soldier behind. In carrying out this sacred 
obligation, we must not forget those who treat them when they return 
from service.
  I urge all of my colleagues to vote in favor of H.R. 1948, and 
resolve together that just as we will always support our veterans, so 
too, we must and will always support those who compassionately treat, 
serve, and restore them so that they can rejoin civilian life as fully 
as possible.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. All time for debate has expired.
  Pursuant to House Resolution 1518, the previous question is ordered 
on the bill, as amended.
  The question is on the engrossment and third reading of the bill.
  The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time, and was 
read the third time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on passage of the bill.
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the ayes appeared to have it.
  Mr. BOST. Madam Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.
  The yeas and nays were ordered.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 8 of rule XX, further 
proceedings on this question will be postponed.

[[Page H9867]]

  

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