[Congressional Record Volume 167, Number 113 (Tuesday, June 29, 2021)]
[House]
[Pages H3292-H3298]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                              {time}  1945

  Now, I yield to my friend from California (Mrs. Kim), who has taken a 
leadership role from the other side of the aisle to talk to us about 
SALT.

[[Page H3293]]

  

  Mrs. KIM of California. Madam Speaker, I thank my friend, 
Representative Suozzi from New York, for yielding. And I want to thank 
him for working with me in a bipartisan push to repeal the cap on SALT 
deductions that is hurting American workers and families.
  Californians in the 39th District--which I represent--and across our 
State, have been burdened enough by high State and local taxes in 
addition to high cost of living and housing. The last thing they need 
is to be hurt even more because of these State and local taxes at the 
Federal level.
  I have heard from many of my constituents about the burdensome taxes 
they have to pay as a result of the SALT cap. These are workers, 
business owners, and families who are struggling to survive due to the 
COVID-19 pandemic. It is estimated that in the 2022 tax year, 
California's 39th District will pay on average $600 million more in 
taxes.
  In 2018 alone, Californians paid an additional $11.2 billion in 
Federal taxes because of the SALT cap. That translated into 55,000 
fewer jobs and a loss of $3.4 billion in wages.
  Assuming a middle-of-the-road rate of 25 percent, an average taxpayer 
who claimed itemized deductions would have saved $6,521 in taxes if the 
SALT deduction were not capped at $10,000. These high tax rates are on 
top of the skyrocketing housing prices across the State. In fact, 
according to the National Association of Realtors, the median price for 
a single-family home in California has increased by more than 39 
percent in the past year alone, surpassing the $800,000 threshold for 
the first time in April of this year.
  That is why it is a top priority of mine in Congress to make life 
more affordable for Californians and repeal the SALT cap. This is 
hurting my constituents and many middle-class Americans across the 
Nation.
  I was proud to join my friend, Representative Suozzi, as an original 
cosponsor of the SALT Deductibility Act. This bill would simply repeal 
the cap on SALT deductions and send a message: No more to burdensome 
taxes, and yes to our families keeping more money in their hands.
  I am also proud to serve as co-chair of the bipartisan SALT Caucus as 
we continue to work together to repeal this cap and help lower taxes 
for my constituents and businesses.
  I will continue to do all I can to deliver results for California's 
39th District. I thank Representative Suozzi for organizing this 
Special Order and for his leadership to repeal the SALT cap.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, I appreciate Congresswoman Kim so much and 
thank her for being here this evening.
  You have been hearing about the SALT cap and the effect on your 
constituents. Have they been talking to you about this a great deal?
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentlewoman from California (Mrs. Kim) 
for the purpose of a colloquy.
  Mrs. KIM of California. Madam Speaker, on a regular basis we have had 
townhalls and we have had regular meetings throughout my business 
roundtable discussions, and they brought this issue up over and over.
  Mr. SUOZZI. And are people talking about leaving the region because 
of the effect of the taxes? I yield to the gentlewoman.
  Mrs. KIM of California. In the last several years we have had many 
thousands of Californians leaving to other States like Texas, and I 
have to literally go over there to meet my friends and listen to these 
problems. So, yes, this is a major issue, and I will continue to work 
with the gentleman to repeal the SALT cap.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, I thank Congresswoman Kim for her 
comments.
  At this time, I yield to the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. 
Pascrell), who has been a real leader on the issue of SALT, and who has 
been outspoken ever since 2017 on this issue. We are grateful to him.
  Mr. PASCRELL. Madam Speaker, I thank Mr. Suozzi for yielding.
  When talking about the SALT deduction, we are not griping about 
something that came about yesterday. The SALT deduction goes back to 
the Civil War. We are talking about 150 years of history when President 
Lincoln had to fund a brand-new army to crush the traitor States in the 
South. So we must use the 150-year history as a baseline for our tax 
policy when discussing reform.
  It is not low-hanging fruit as it was in 2017 when they looked for 
the money for the false tax cuts and they got slammed out of office in 
2018. Go to the facts.
  Abe knew what he was doing, how it took money away from the States. 
They couldn't build hospitals. They couldn't build schools. They 
couldn't build roads. He knew what he was doing. The States needed 
money, too.
  Republicans targeted blue States. They bragged about it. I couldn't 
believe it. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard them on the floor 
of the House openly admitting it. They made no qualms about it. They 
targeted these blue States when passing their 2017 tax scam. Talk about 
a hoax. They bragged about it.
  Its motivations alone are disqualifying, but its impacts are worse. 
SALT was a lifeline to the middle class. Despite half-truths and 
outright falsehoods, SALT is about the middle class, and if you can't 
stand up for the middle class, you shouldn't be here.
  In 2017, 42 percent of the Jersey taxpayers, nearly 2 million people, 
deducted their State and local taxes, averaging over $19,000 per 
household. That is a $9,000 increase in taxes. Those phonies did it. 
That is why they got smashed in 2018.
  More than 81 percent of those who deducted SALT earned less than 
$200,000. Naysayers claim this deduction only benefits the well-off. 
They do not recognize the cost of living in our States. The same people 
who voted for the tax cuts that helped the 1 percent, the 1.5 percent, 
they felt badly about the rich people who--one clown who went to jail 
in New York State, before he went, he said that we had to take care of 
our donors. He said it. I didn't. I mean, he didn't go to jail for 
saying that. He played the stocks.

  Middle income in New Jersey is not the same as Oklahoma or South 
Dakota. Housing, food, childcare, and transportation costs are much 
lower there. Our middle-class taxpayers are the pack mules of the U.S. 
tax system, and as one of our brothers from New Jersey would say, we 
are tired of being the lackeys for these other States. Look who is 
paying Federal taxes.
  Our middle-class taxpayers will no longer sit idly by. This cap 
dumped even more weight on the backs of my constituents in my district, 
the Ninth District of New Jersey. I appreciate the growing recognition 
that relief is needed.
  Senator Sanders' budget draft is an important step in the right 
direction. But we have got to think big. We demand relief now for our 
States and our middle-class constituents. They are the backbone of the 
Biden administration's coalition. Just last week, we stood shoulder to 
shoulder with working-class firefighters, police officers, and teachers 
who support our SALT demands. Our urgency is absolute.
  We won't allow our neighbors' pay to be taken for granted. I will 
close with just four words: No SALT, no deals. And I will close by 
saying that Abraham Lincoln, one of the greatest Presidents in the 
history of the country, a true patriot, he stood behind the middle 
class. He knew what the States went through.
  This is the oldest deduction on the books, and they have criminalized 
it. And if anything I reported here is not right, I hope they stand up 
and say that it is not right. I have got the other facts here. What 
other facts are you talking about?
  Mr. SUOZZI. Well, I thank Mr. Pascrell very much for his comments. I 
wanted to mention that the gentleman served as the mayor of his 
hometown. I yield to the gentleman.
  Mr. PASCRELL. Yes, I did.
  Mr. SUOZZI. And you talk about President Lincoln when the Federal Tax 
Code was first adopted, and the idea was that we didn't want the 
Federal Government stopping local governments and State governments 
from being the laboratories of democracy.
  Mr. PASCRELL. That is right. It is a fact of life, yes.
  Mr. SUOZZI. And so they put a deduction in place for State and local 
taxes so that State and local governments could govern the way they 
wish.
  Mr. PASCRELL. And they could build the hospitals and the schools and

[[Page H3294]]

the roads. Where were they going to get the money if the Federal 
Government took all of the money to fight the war?
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, I know that the gentleman has always been 
a strong proponent for law enforcement, for the firefighters, and 
public safety officials, and they are very dramatically negatively 
affected by this. Is that right?
  Mr. PASCRELL. Yes. And many of the first responders came out and 
supported this bill last week.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, I thank Mr. Pascrell very much for his 
comments.
  I yield to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Eshoo), a good friend 
and a leader, not just on this issue but in Congress.
  Ms. ESHOO. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding to me 
and certainly for his wonderful leadership on this issue.
  Anyone that is tuned in this evening from across the country is 
hearing a lot of passion spilling over at the podiums here, and for 
very good reason. In 2017, despite the opposition of every single 
Democrat in the United States House of Representatives and some 
Republicans, Congress passed a tax law that bulldozed the State and 
local tax deductibility. This hurts a lot of people.
  Now, that was close to a $5 trillion package and so why was this 
bulldozed? They went through the Tax Code looking for things that were 
deductible to lower the price tag of a highly inequitable tax package. 
And the SALT deduction, as it is known, was then capped at $10,000 for 
both individuals and then for married couples filing jointly.
  I viewed this then, as I do today, as an assault on the middle class 
of our country. It was one of the main reasons that I voted against the 
2017 tax law. Now I think that if you ask the question of 435 Members 
of the House: Do you support the middle class? They would all say 
``yes.'' But the Record shows something else.
  We know that everyone aspires to get into the middle class, and we 
know that the middle class, as my father always used to say, is made up 
of extraordinary, ordinary people who are the backbone of this country. 
And that is why this policy is so wrong and it is so hurtful.
  This is a very important deduction for the middle class. Middle 
class, you file long term, and you have four areas that you can deduct: 
mortgage interest deduction, charitable contributions, healthcare 
expenses, and State and local taxes. And they wiped that out.
  Now, you tell me whether that is fair or not. I don't think so. And I 
don't think people across the country do either. Capping the SALT 
deduction affects nearly 200,000 families in my congressional district.
  I am not talking about the whole State of California. I am talking 
about California's 18th Congressional District, and it has raised taxes 
on over a million households in the State of California. Prior to this 
harmful cap, my constituents--hold on to your seats, hold on to your 
hats--deducted an average of $63,083 in State and local taxes. Wiped it 
out.
  Some have unfairly, I think, maligned the SALT deduction as a benefit 
for the wealthy. I think it is an essential deduction for taxpayers in 
high-cost, high-tax States like California. And that has been spoken to 
earlier. That is a very important legitimate case to be made. In the 
bay area, the beautiful bay area of California, northern California, 
the cost of living is really very expensive, and it keeps going up.

                              {time}  2000

  And it is so high that the Economic Policy Institute estimates that a 
family of four needs to earn more than $100,000 to earn a modest but 
adequate standard of living. That is simply a fact.
  So prior to the law, more than 3 million households in California 
with an income of less than that annually claimed this deduction, as 
did nearly one-third of taxpayers nationwide.
  This evening, I think each one of us can outline why this is wrong; 
why the deductibility needs to be restored. Congress needs to reform 
our tax code. And when we do, so should the restoration of this 
deductibility be restored.
  Why?
  Because, again, the middle class is the backbone of America. We 
should not be assaulting them. We should be assisting them.
  Madam Speaker, I thank the gentleman for leading this effort this 
evening. It is a worthy one.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentlewoman for her leadership 
on this and for being such a fierce advocate for the middle class.
  I now introduce a good friend of mine from California, who really had 
a district that was devastated by COVID. People lost their jobs at one 
of the greatest entertainment facilities in the country, and now he 
wants to tell us about how SALT is affecting his district.
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from California (Mr. 
Carbajal).
  Mr. CARBAJAL. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding.
  The gentleman is right, Madam Speaker, COVID really devastated my 
community, but, more importantly, SALT also landed a devastating punch.
  This issue is about proud Californians who pay more than their fair 
share of Federal taxes. It is about equity for fellow Americans, like 
Californians, and other States like California.
  California today is still the largest State in the United States in 
terms of population and economic activity. For years and years, 
California has been a net donor State to the United States. Let me 
repeat. For years and years, California has paid more Federal dollars 
than it gets back from the Federal Government.
  We Californians work hard. We live in a State that generates 
tremendous economic activity, and we have a very high cost of living. 
And we pay more--we pay more than our fair share of taxes proudly. As 
Americans, we pay our Federal taxes proudly.
  So I ask why? Why is the Federal Government not being fair to States 
like California?
  So why do we randomly have a law that arbitrarily caps our State and 
local tax deductibility on our Federal taxes?
  This SALT cap hurts. It hurts my friends and neighbors. It hurts 
middle-class families in California. In my State, the average price of 
a home, a used house, middle class, is now close to $800,000.
  So why would we make it more difficult, more expensive for a middle-
class family to buy a home?
  I say to all of you, both sides of the aisle, let's be fair and let's 
be equitable to the middle class in this country. Join me in thanking 
States like California for paying more than their fair share of Federal 
taxes. Join me by eliminating the SALT cap, that is deductibility of 
local taxes on the Federal return.
  And I say to you: No SALT deductible, no deal.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, I just want to--some people, when they 
hear you talk about this, and they hear a home worth $500,000, 
$600,000, $700,000, $800,000, they think, boy, that person must be 
really rich.
  What they don't seem to understand is that in my State, in your 
State, and many of the States represented here, those are actually 
middle-class home values.
  Mr. CARBAJAL. That is a starter home.
  Mr. SUOZZI. So we have to recognize that the country is not the same 
all over. If you make $150,000 in your household, you are in the top 20 
percent of the income earners of the country.
  However, if you make $150,000 in your district or my district, you 
are not a rich person. If you make $150,000 in Oklahoma or in Iowa or 
North Dakota, you may be a wealthy person. So we have to recognize 
these regional differences.
  People say: Well, why should we be subsidizing what you are doing?
  And the gentleman points out so clearly in what he just spoke about 
that we are, in fact, in our States, subsidizing the rest of the 
country. We are net donors and they are net takers.
  Mr. CARBAJAL. We pay more than our fair share of Federal taxes year 
after year.
  Mr. SUOZZI. I thank the gentleman for being such a fierce advocate.
  Madam Speaker, I want to travel across the country from California 
now

[[Page H3295]]

to New Jersey, to another fierce advocate; someone who served in the 
U.S. military as a Navy helicopter pilot for 5 years both in the Middle 
East and in Europe; someone who has been one of the fiercest advocates 
for the reinstatement of the SALT deduction.
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentlewoman from New Jersey (Ms. 
Sherrill).
  Ms. SHERRILL. Madam Speaker, I am proud to be rising today alongside 
so many of my colleagues to declare loudly that the time has come to 
finally address the State and local tax deduction cap for families that 
have been slapped with this double tax for 4 long years.
  In States like New Jersey, we pride ourselves on making the 
investments necessary to sustain our top-tier public schools, invest in 
infrastructure and open spaces, and support a prevailing wage for our 
unions. That is why people move to my State. That is why families stay 
for generations.
  But when the SALT deduction cap imposed by the 2017 Trump tax bill 
instituted, our ability to keep making those key investments was 
threatened.
  The SALT deduction cap affects residents in every corner of my 
district. It impacts families made up of teachers, first responders, 
and public servants.
  For my constituents and millions of taxpayers throughout the country, 
the bottom line is you don't have to be a millionaire to be impacted by 
SALT. The simple fact is that it has imposed a harmful double tax and 
has created one of the largest marriage penalties in the Federal tax 
code.
  With the SALT cap in place, States and localities face increased 
pressure to cut back on important investments in priorities like 
education, prevailing wages, infrastructure, environmental protections, 
and services for seniors. Those investments became harder to make when 
the Federal Government decided to tax New Jersey families twice. This 
means that more New Jerseyans' money is going to the Federal 
Government, instead of being invested in our local communities.
  The result will be less spending over time on these priorities, which 
would be a detriment to ensuring our economy works for everyone.
  I have been fighting since my first day in office to repeal the SALT 
deduction cap. I have helped secure passage of a repeal twice in this 
very Chamber. And I feel confident that so many of my colleagues 
understand this issue and why it is critical that we repeal it; largely 
because of the work and advocacy of the Members who are speaking here 
tonight.
  But we need to keep up this fight for our constituents. As we head 
into crunch time on infrastructure negotiations in Congress, now is the 
time to deliver relief for families across New Jersey and States around 
the country that are disproportionately impacted by this harmful double 
tax.
  Last week, I launched an initiative back in New Jersey, declaring it 
the Summer of SALT, to make it clear that we will do everything in our 
power to make it happen. There simply isn't another option for New 
Jersey families.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Congresswoman, you have been an amazing advocate. You 
mentioned in your remarks at the end there about this being a double 
tax. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
  Ms. SHERRILL. Sure. So as you know, the people in my district pay 
State and local taxes, and that is what funds our great public school 
system. New Jersey has the best public school system for 2 years 
running in the Nation; types of things like that, services that our New 
Jersey families care so much about. And now the Federal Government is 
taxing that money. So you are getting taxed twice in New Jersey, to 
really put downward pressure on our ability to fund those great public 
services.
  Mr. SUOZZI. So you are getting taxed on the taxes you have already 
paid.
  Ms. SHERRILL. Exactly.
  Mr. SUOZZI. So if a family makes $100,000 in your State, and they 
have to pay $20,000 in taxes, between their property taxes and their 
income taxes, that leaves them with $80,000 of that income.
  However, if they are in a low tax State where they don't have as good 
services, they start with $100,000, but they only pay $5,000 in State 
and local taxes, they have got $95,000 left in income.
  Ms. SHERRILL. Yep. Exactly.
  Mr. SUOZZI. But they are being taxed the same at the Federal level.
  Ms. SHERRILL. And now not able to deduct that.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, now I want to go across the aisle again to 
Congresswoman Michelle Steel from California, who is also being 
accosted by her constituents. They are talking to her about the fact 
that they need the SALT deduction back.
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentlewoman from California (Mrs. 
Steel).
  Mrs. STEEL. Madam Speaker, I thank Congressman Suozzi for leading 
this important tax matter. It is very important to our constituents.
  Taxpayers in California's 48th Congressional District, which I am 
proud to represent, were responsible for 19.8 percent of all SALT 
deductions in 2018.
  The average SALT deduction lost in my district was $28,532. In a 
place like Orange County, where we already pay some of the highest 
taxes in the country, this cap takes more money from hardworking 
families.
  There were great improvements made in the 2017 tax reform law, like 
simplifying the tax code and making the corporate tax rate more on par 
with other nations. But it also chose winners and losers; and, 
unfortunately, those in high-cost-of-living States, like in New York 
and California, are paying the price.
  This is a bipartisan issue because we know how much this affects 
hardworking families in these high-cost States. I do think we can make 
progress on this, but not at the cost of raising taxes on Americans and 
American businesses, especially at a time when we are working to 
rebuild our local economies and get businesses back open.
  This is a bipartisan issue. We can't muddy the water by adding it to 
partisan legislation that will pass on party line only. I don't want to 
see additional tax gimmicks come before Congress. I want the deduction 
back on the table.
  I am proud to support two pieces of legislation that would fully 
repeal the SALT cap. One bill by my fellow Californian,  Mike Garcia; 
and the other one by New York Congressman   Thomas Suozzi.
  Our constituents should keep more of their hard-earned money. It 
belongs to them, not the Federal Government.
  I am proud to join my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to 
continue calling for a repeal of the SALT cap.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here tonight 
and for speaking out on this very important issue. We are grateful for 
your presence here tonight.
  Madam Speaker, at this time I would like to go to the middle of the 
country, to the State of Illinois, where my good friend who serves on 
the Ways and Means Committee really is one of the brightest minds in 
Congress today, who wants to speak to us about the SALT deduction and 
its effect on his district.
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. 
Schneider).

  Mr. SCHNEIDER. Congressman Suozzi, I am grateful for you holding this 
Special Order. I am grateful for your friendship in Congress and the 
work we do together on many things, but, in particular, on our efforts 
to repeal the onerous cap on the SALT deduction.
  In 2017, the Trump administration raised taxes for middle-class 
families in Illinois and across the country by capping the State and 
Local Tax deduction at $10,000.
  The decision was both bad policy and bad politics. Capping the SALT 
deduction raised the tax burden for Illinois working families and small 
business owners.
  In the 10th District, my district, 42 percent of families rely on the 
SALT deduction. Statewide in Illinois, one in three taxpayers file 
using the SALT deduction affected by this cap.
  And this deduction is not a tax break on the wealthy. Eighty-five 
percent of Illinois filers who take the SALT deduction are middle-
income individuals and families.
  I have heard from constituents, and some of them want to move out of 
Illinois because their taxes are simply too expensive. I see everything 
our communities have to offer, from our schools, our parks, our public 
places, communities that make a difference and make a great place to 
raise family; and it

[[Page H3296]]

breaks my heart that someone would choose not to live in the 10th 
District just because of an unfair decision made to increase the tax 
burden to punish States like Illinois.
  The SALT cap also makes it harder for our cities to provide essential 
services, like police departments, fire services, fire protection 
services, libraries and public health. These services and the workers 
performing them are the backbones of our community. The pandemic has 
already strained their budgets, and we do not need to strain them any 
further.
  Finally, it is no accident which States are most affected by the SALT 
cap. These are the States most affected: Illinois, New York, New 
Jersey, and California.
  These States have made the decision to invest in their communities, 
to invest in their people. They have invested in their children, their 
schools, their infrastructure. We should not be double-taxed just 
because we have decided that we want to continue to pay to make our 
communities stronger.
  Reinstating the full SALT deduction is a decision about fairness and 
responsibility. A Federal tax on income already paid to State and local 
governments is, quite simply, double taxation. We have the 
responsibility to stand up for our families, our small businesses, and 
our communities.

                              {time}  2015

  We need a tax system that is fair, lifts our Nation, and gives our 
children the future that we all want them to have. It is critical that 
we reinstate the full SALT deduction and reduce the tax burden for 
middle-class families across the country.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Congressman, I want to thank you so much. You hit on the 
topic of fairness so many times. Many of our States and our local 
governments have relied on this deduction for literally a hundred 
years, and it was suddenly taken away in 2017. It has had a dramatic 
effect.
  Can you briefly touch on fairness one more time?
  Mr. SCHNEIDER. Absolutely. As you know, when the income tax was put 
in place more than 100 years ago, it was a decision that communities, 
that States that decided to invest in their people, would not be double 
taxed.
  Yet, in 2017, the decision of the Republicans was to specifically 
attack these States, these blue States like Illinois and New York. It 
is unfair to these communities that are investing in schools, public 
services, fire departments, police departments, making the decision to 
responsibly pay for them, and then have their residents told they have 
to pay a second time with the Federal tax.
  To add on top of that, these are the States, like New York and 
Illinois, who pay more to the Federal Government than they get back. So 
not only are we getting double taxed, we have a burden of subsidizing 
the States that are attacking us now.
  So this is absolutely unfair. It is unfair to the States. But, more 
importantly, it is unfair to the families we represent.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Thank you, Congressman. It really galls me sometimes when 
I hear people boasting about the fact that they are leaving our States 
and moving to other States, when, in fact, we are subsidizing the rest 
of the country with our tax dollars. Thank you so much for your 
leadership on this issue. We are very grateful.
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. 
Porter), one of the most progressive Members of the United States 
Congress, and also one of the great intellects who has been so 
passionate about this issue and has some very interesting things to 
share with us.
  Ms. PORTER. Madam Speaker, I am here today to champion tax fairness 
for every American across the country, across parties, and across the 
aisle. We are here tonight to talk about what does it mean to have a 
fair tax system.
  Since coming to Congress, I have repeatedly heard from my 
constituents about how the Trump tax bill doubled the taxes they owe 
due to an arbitrary cap on allowable State and local tax deductions, 
often called SALT.
  In the last year before this arbitrary $10,000 cap was imposed, 
nearly two in five taxpayers in my district claimed the SALT deduction, 
and their average deduction was $22,000 per household. They were paying 
an average of $22,000 in State and local taxes.
  Capping the SALT deduction created double taxation on those families, 
and it penalized millions of middle-class families--Republicans, 
Democrats, and Independents alike--based solely on the State where they 
live.
  It is an unfair Federal tax system to penalize people based solely on 
their State of residence, yet that is what this arbitrary SALT tax cap 
does.
  Given the rising cost of housing, prescription drugs, college, and 
childcare, every dollar counts for American families and families in 
Orange County. This is especially true after a year of financial 
hardship during which millions of families across the country are 
struggling to stay afloat.
  Madam Speaker, I urge my colleagues across the country and across the 
aisle to restore the State and local tax deduction to create a fairer 
tax system for every American.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Congresswoman, I ask you, please go into it a little bit 
further about this concept of double taxation. We have heard it several 
times here tonight. Just explain what you mean by double taxation.
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the Congresswoman for a colloquy.
  Ms. PORTER. The basic principle of an income tax is that you are 
taxed on the money that you have available to purchase things, to 
purchase goods and services, to invest, to save. You are taxed on that. 
That is what a progressive system of taxation means.
  When you are having taxes taken out of your paycheck, or you owe 
taxes to your State and local government, you do not have that income 
left over.
  So let's use an example. If someone earns $100,000 and they pay, as 
is typical in my district, $20,000 in State and local tax, that is not 
optional. They must pay that $20,000 under the law. What they have left 
to provide for their family, to save for college, to pay for housing, 
to do other things, is $80,000. That is the amount of income that the 
Federal Government should tax.
  What the SALT cap does is say to the family earning $100,000: You can 
only deduct $10,000, a completely arbitrary number.
  What that does is say to a family that only has $80,000 left because 
they had to pay the county, they had to pay the city, they had to pay 
for fire services and school services. And they pay that money because 
they are proud of their community and they want our communities to 
thrive. But then they are taxed as if they have $90,000 available to 
them, but they don't. They only have $80,000.
  So this whole idea of capping the State and local tax deduction is 
completely contrary to the entire basic theory of an income tax, which 
is you pay tax on your available income. If you owe money to the State 
and county government, whether it is for property tax or State or city 
taxes, you do not have that money left.
  In effect, these families are being asked to pay money and find money 
they do not have relative to their peers in other parts of the country. 
That is simply an unfair tax system.
  Mr. SUOZZI. It is very important, Congresswoman, what you point out. 
This is a mandatory payment. You are not spending the money to go on 
vacation; you are not spending money to go out to dinner; you are not 
building an addition onto your home. This is a mandatory expense that 
you must pay, as you said, to your county, to your village, or to your 
State. That is no longer available to you.

  In other States where the overall income is exactly the same, but the 
mandatory taking is much smaller, the tax bill is not as burdensome.
  Ms. PORTER. That is right. So the State and local tax deduction is 
really about saying that two families in two different States, trying 
to support themselves on the identical amount of income, ought to owe 
the same amount of Federal tax. That is what we are here to champion 
today.
  I am proud to be doing it with colleagues from across the country and 
across the aisle.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Congresswoman, I want to thank you so much for being 
here. We have had some Republicans across the aisle here tonight. We 
have had some moderate Democrats here tonight. And we have progressive 
Democrats, such as yourself, here.
  I think it is important that we point out that actually the SALT 
deduction

[[Page H3297]]

is in keeping with progressive policy, because it supports those States 
that want to promote progressive policies within their States.
  Ms. PORTER. That is right. Because cities and counties depend on the 
resources from State and local taxes to be able to pay for schools, to 
do a good job educating every single child, to make investments in 
roads and bridges, to pay first responders fair wages for putting their 
lives on the line to protect us.
  These are the kinds of policies that progressives champion, and we 
cannot ask our cities and our States and, most importantly, our fellow 
Americans to make those kinds of investments on the city, county, 
village, and local level, and then have the Federal Government treat 
them unfairly solely because they are trying to do right by each other 
in their community.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Congresswoman, thank you so much. We really appreciate 
you being here this evening to talk about this.
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. 
Gottheimer), back across to the other side of the country, one of my 
neighbors and good friends who serves as the chair of the Problem 
Solvers Caucus. He has been one of the strongest advocates for the 
reinstatement of the SALT deduction and the repeal of the SALT cap.
  Mr. GOTTHEIMER. Madam Speaker, we are here today representing tens of 
thousands of middle-class families, like those back in my home district 
in northern New Jersey, who got whacked with the 2017 tax hike bill, 
which gutted our State and local tax deduction with the disastrous 
$10,000 cap.
  It is high time that Congress and the rest of the country heard just 
how badly these hardworking families have been hurt by the SALT cap. It 
is something I know we heard about a lot tonight, and I really want to 
thank my dear friend  Tom Suozzi for his excellent leadership on this 
issue.
  The usual naysayers continue to try to undermine our efforts to 
reinstate the State and local tax deduction, or SALT, by claiming it is 
just a giveaway to the wealthiest Americans. But anyone who actually 
lives in my district in northern New Jersey knows that the $10,000 cap 
has hit middle-class families hard, many of whom are already struggling 
with high costs.
  It has also caused residents and jobs to leave our State. And now, 
with a declining tax base, it's threatening our best-in-class schools, 
teachers, law enforcement, firefighters, and our State's services for 
hard-pressed families.
  The cap on the State and local tax deduction does not solely impact 
the highest earners. It has also increased taxes on scores of middle-
class families, as I said. It is a very important point to understand.
  In Bergen County, which is the largest county I represent, for 
instance, before the cap was put in place, the average SALT deduction 
was above $24,000 a year. Put another way, a married couple in Bergen 
County, a teacher and a law enforcement officer making a typical 
salary, could have had a SALT deduction of more than $17,000.
  According to reporting from New Jersey's Star-Ledger, if we 
reinstated the State and local tax deduction, nearly one-third of New 
Jersey residents, almost 3 million people, would get tax relief. Yes, 
they would get a tax cut they so desperately need. As many as 80 
percent of them had incomes of $216,000 or less.
  Again, that is a firefighter and a teacher. That is hardly the 1 
percent, especially in a high-cost-of-living area like New Jersey. I 
know the same thing is true of California, like we heard about from 
Katie Porter, or  Tom Suozzi's district in New York.
  We know that when taxes goes up, it leads to an exodus of middle 
class and higher earners in State likes ours. In fact, according to 
United Van Lines, ever since the SALT cap, New Jersey has been the 
number one out-migration State in the entire country. New Jersey is 
losing its highest earners, and the disproportionate taxes they pay, to 
States like Florida, North Carolina, and Texas. That has only been 
exacerbated during the pandemic.
  The SALT cap is literally draining the tax base out of States like 
New Jersey that offer far better schools and government-supported 
services to middle- and lower-income families than our counterparts in 
other parts of the Nation.
  For instance, I mentioned $15,000 is the median property tax in 
Bergen County, New Jersey. If you go to Mississippi, their median 
property tax is $550 a year.
  The New York Times editorial board even once reiterated this point 
that I am trying to make, where we have good services for hard-pressed 
families in States like mine and other State I mentioned, like 
Mississippi or Alabama, don't have the resources to offer those kinds 
of services.
  So The New York Times editorial board made this point when they said 
that States like New Jersey and New York ``generally do a better job of 
providing for the health and welfare of their citizens, and are more 
willing to pay for institutions that are good for society as a whole.''

  This is the difference between States like ours and moocher States 
like Mississippi and Alabama that tend not to give back to the people 
they represent.
  Thankfully, there is real bipartisan work taking place here in 
Congress to reinstate the SALT deduction, to get more money back in the 
pockets of Jersey middle-class families, and to help stop residents 
from moving out and eroding our State's tax base.
  Along with Congressman Suozzi, I have helped introduce the SALT 
Deductibility Act, a bipartisan bill to fully restore the deduction.
  In the SALT Caucus, with Congressman Bill Pascrell, who spoke 
earlier, we are working in a bipartisan way with more than 30 Members 
to find a way to get this done in Congress and to actually get tax 
relief for the middle-class families we represent. I am very proud to 
co-chair that bipartisan caucus.
  This tax cut of reinstating SALT can be a win-win for everyone. Let's 
get the SALT deduction fully reinstated so that millions of Americans 
and families nationwide can finally get some relief.
  Working together in a bipartisan way, I believe we really can get 
this done so that our best days are always ahead of us.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Congressman Gottheimer, thank you so much for pointing 
out all of those important points.
  I want to go back to one thing that you have mentioned here tonight. 
We have heard from Senator McConnell and from others the concept of a 
blue State bailout, the idea that the SALT deduction is some sort of 
advantage for blue States. But you talked about how your State is 
actually a net donor to the Federal Government.
  Could you tell us a little bit more about that?
  Madam Speaker, I yield to the gentleman for a colloquy.

                              {time}  2030

  Mr. GOTTHEIMER. Madam Speaker, I would be happy to.
  One of the biggest challenges people don't realize for States like 
New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and California is how much our 
taxpayers pay into the Federal Government and, historically, how we get 
back less in return than some of the other States in the country do.
  For instance, for every dollar that Mississippi sends to the Federal 
Government, they get $4.38 back. Alabama, I believe, receives $4.32 
back. The State of Louisiana starts its budget every year with half 
coming from the Federal Government.
  States like Jersey, we get back 67 cents, historically, on the 
dollar.
  What does that mean? It means that we pay lots of money to 
Washington. People like me are fighting to claw more back to Jersey, 
but we know that other States benefit more.
  When the tax hike bill passed in 2017, and the red States gutted the 
State and local tax deduction, capping it at $10,000, what they did was 
shift actually even more of the tax burden over to blue States like 
ours, and the red States benefited even more.
  It just reiterates, even more, the importance of actually reinstating 
the State and local tax deduction, not only because, as Katie Porter 
said, it is double taxation and not only because it has been around 
since 1913 or even before for exactly this purpose. It is because we 
recognize that some States pay more than others, and we have to find 
ways to balance that out. Otherwise, we are going to keep losing people 
from States like ours to States like Florida and other red States.

[[Page H3298]]

  Frankly, that is why it is so important that we fight back to get tax 
relief for the people that we represent, to make sure they can afford 
to live in our States and that we have a good tax base to be able to 
have great schools and stand by law enforcement, firefighters, and 
others.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, Mr. Gottheimer has been a great champion 
on this issue. I am grateful to him for pointing that out.
  I know, in the case of my State of New York, in the past 5 years, New 
York has sent $150 billion more to the Federal Government than they 
have received back in Federal services or Federal contracts, whereas 
Mitch McConnell's State in the past 5 years, this same period, they 
have received $150 billion more in services and contracts than they 
have put back into the system.
  The gentleman's advocacy on this issue has been stellar. I am 
grateful to him for being here tonight.
  Mr. GOTTHEIMER. Madam Speaker, I thank Congressman Suozzi for putting 
together this Special Order hour.
  Mr. SUOZZI. Madam Speaker, I appreciate the time that my colleagues 
and I have had tonight to make these different points.
  I want to close by saying this is about fairness. It is not fair.
  It is not fair that the State and local tax deduction has been in 
place for over 100 years so State and local governments have relied on 
this deduction in order to fund the programs that we have.
  It is not fair that people are being taxed on taxes that they have 
already paid.
  It is not fair that the taxes that are being paid in these States are 
no longer deductible on people's income tax returns.
  It is not fair that, after all these years of relying on this 
deduction, it is no longer in place, and my colleagues on the other 
side of the aisle have been boasting about people leaving my State and 
going to their States while we are, in fact, subsidizing those very 
States.
  This is a battle that is going to continue. Hopefully, over the next 
few months, we will be able to build a coalition, together, of 
Democrats and Republicans who recognize that this unfairness has to be 
addressed and that we need to restore the State and local tax deduction 
for the benefit of the residents of my State and people throughout the 
United States of America who are relying on basic fairness.
  Madam Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Mr. CICILLINE. Madam Speaker, I rise today in support of ending the 
cap on State and Local Tax deductions--better known as the SALT 
deduction.
  For more than 100 years, an idea dating back to Abraham Lincoln, the 
SALT deduction has allowed families to deduct taxes already paid to 
state and local government from their federal tax returns.
  Many middle-class Americans benefit from this commonsense tax policy 
every year. In past years, almost a third of Rhode Islanders have 
claimed the SALT deductions, including almost 60 percent of people in 
my district who make between $75-100,000 per year.
  The destructive 2017 Trump tax cuts, however, imposed a $10,000 cap 
on SALT deductions, meaning that if a family pays more than $10,000 in 
state and local taxes, the taxes paid in excess of that $10,000 can no 
longer be deducted from federal returns raising those families' tax 
liability significantly.
  It just doesn't make sense to have Americans, especially middle-class 
families living in states with high tax rates, pay extra taxes on the 
taxes they have already paid.
  Most middle-class Americans living in high tax areas are there so 
their children can go to high caliber public schools or receive better 
programs.
  Many of them made 10, 20, and 30-year investments in home ownership 
in these high tax areas, relying on the SALT deduction that had been in 
place for more than 100 years when budgeting for this big expense.
  Then they had the rug pulled out from under them and were told they 
were suddenly liable for thousands of dollars more in taxes per year. 
For many of these people, that extra tax is a significant portion of 
their annual income.
  These Americans are working hard to give their families the best life 
possible. Putting a secondary tax on the taxes they have already paid 
will force many middle-class Americans to struggle.
  In fact, middle-class Americans have said that the SALT Cap will, 
quote: ``wipe them out'' by forcing them to pay those extra federal 
taxes in addition to state and local.
  This is why I cosponsored H.R. 613, the SALT Deductibility Act, this 
Congress.
  This bipartisan bill would reverse the 2017 law and allow Americans 
to use the SALT deductions when paying federal taxes without a $10,000 
cap, keeping money in the hands of American working families.
  I applaud Congressman Suozzi for introducing this important 
legislation. It will have a significant impact to help American 
families, which is especially important after the devastating economic 
effect of COVID-19 that has left so many middle-class Americans 
struggling financially, including many Rhode Islanders.
  The 2017 law was more than a mistake, it was bad policy, and I hope 
that this body does the right thing by taking action to correct it.

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