[Congressional Record Volume 165, Number 13 (Tuesday, January 22, 2019)]
[House]
[Pages H989-H995]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                           ISSUES OF THE DAY

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of 
January 3, 2019, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Gohmert) is recognized 
for 60 minutes as the designee of the minority leader.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, it is an honor to be here tonight, with so 
much going on, but it seems, other than some people rushing to judgment 
to beat up on a smiling high school kid with a sweet disposition, 
people are still concerned about the border.
  In talking to some TSA agents, some Border Patrol, some of those who 
are not getting checks--we are still getting some calls--I am still 
hearing from people, personally, saying: Look, it is really hurting not 
to have gotten a check; and if we don't get a check, our next check 
here in the next week, it is going to hurt. But we also know how many 
American people are hurting because of an insecure border.
  How many people have to die, how many people have to have their homes 
broken into, how many people have to be hit by drivers that should not 
be driving without insurance, without a driver's license, without fully 
understanding the laws?
  It shouldn't have to be said, but because there are so many people 
who are quite dense in the liberal media, we know that everybody who 
comes into this country illegally is not out to hurt America. But what 
they don't understand and what some in this country--thank God, 
literally, that it is a minority--don't understand is that, if you keep 
the border as open as it is, then this country will continue to be more 
and more overwhelmed, and we will

[[Page H990]]

lose that great light on the hill that has helped illuminate so much of 
the world through our being the most generous country in the history of 
the world, helping others that couldn't help themselves.
  But when you do enough damage to a country, this country--the 
greatest, I would continue to submit, in the history of the world, and 
that is because of all races, creed, color, gender. I mean, we have 
blessed the world. God has blessed this world through us.
  But as we weaken ourselves by having more and more people without 
regard to the law and we give more and more of our cities over to being 
used by the drug cartels in Mexico, and as we continue to use Homeland 
Security--thank goodness it is to a much, much lesser extent than 
during the Obama administration. But during the Obama administration, I 
have said here before, the Border Patrol says: The drug cartels call us 
at Homeland Security, and also HHS, their logistics. They get people 
illegally into the country who still owe more money to the drug 
cartels, and they provide them with a piece of paper with an address, a 
name sometimes, sometimes a phone number, but mainly that address.

                              {time}  2015

  And Homeland Security, sometimes HHS, they ship them where the drug 
cartels need them to be to help finish out their network through the 
United States that will continue to poison our young people with drugs, 
70,000 or so a year, to their deaths. At some point it has got to stop.
  I was fortunate to be on a trip to the border. Actually, we all just 
met there, down in southern Arizona. I have spent a tremendous amount 
of time, all hours of the day and night, on our Texas-Mexico border, 
but I had not spent time, like I should have, on the Arizona border. It 
was quite eye-opening.
  They have areas where they do have some border fence that is making a 
world of difference. Like Secretary Nielsen testified, when we add a 
wall barrier, it cuts down illegal immigration by 90 to 95 percent. 
They have seen it in San Diego, El Paso, and some places in Arizona 
where there is a massive fence or barrier. So it was interesting.
  Here is something we put up down by Douglas, Arizona, and we have got 
this fence here, and you can see between these big metal poles--and 
those go deep into the ground. These metal, hollow pipes are filled 
with concrete. So it is not easy to get through those. And then even if 
you do, you get over it--and there is some razor wire. But if you get 
over it, then at least to this point you still have another barrier.
  When there are heavy rains, there is water in there, but then you 
have got that to get over, and then you have a road here that the 
border patrol drives. They can see--and I was there--you can see for a 
long way. They can come zipping up, just like we watched them do near 
Nogales, Arizona, yesterday.
  So it does make a difference. Talking to the border patrolmen that 
were patrolling this area, they said: Oh, you wouldn't believe what a 
help this is. It is a huge help.
  Here is another area. This barrier, it is hard to tell, it looks 
solid, but you can see through the wall. Border patrolmen say they 
actually like to see through the wall or the fence so they can see what 
is on the other side, and, you know, see what is coming, and it is very 
helpful. And this is a great fence--a great barrier. You can tell a 
little better here that, you know, it has got razor wire.
  And they were telling us that that is something that the National 
Guard, that President Trump had sent down--or not National Guard--our 
military. The military has been sent down. Just in the last 90 days, 
they put up a tremendous amount of concertina wire that has made it 
much more difficult for people to get over.
  So this has been a terrific barrier until you get up here to the end, 
and that is the end of the barrier. They say: Well, then we have got 
this Normandy barrier for vehicles. Well, most of them aren't coming in 
vehicles into the United States, unless they have real serious drugs. 
But anyway, this is a major, major problem.
  So I now recognize my friend, who was down there on the border with 
me on this trip that   Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar helped put together. I 
yield to Morgan Griffith.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Mr. Speaker, I really want to ask a question. So I 
guess I should ask if the gentleman would yield for a question.
  Because if he would put up that slide where they had the barrier that 
would stop the vehicles, I wonder if he had time yet--because we just 
got back to--in fact, I think that might be me in the picture.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, it looks like--no, it is him because that 
is his--nobody else had binoculars that good. I yield to Congressman 
Griffith.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that. We were able to--maybe 
not here, but that's fine.
  But just on the other side of that, do we have a picture of the rope?
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, funny he should ask. Yes, we just happen to 
have the rope. So here is the end of the barrier right here. It is an 
impressive barrier till you get to the end, and then you have got the 
rope he was referring to, and then they have got this barbwire fence--
pretty sad barbwire, four-strand, and it is anything but tight. The 
only thing that keeps somebody from crossing our border, you have got 
the massive barrier, the concertina wire, and then you have this little 
quarter-inch cord here and kind of a slipknot that you can undo, and 
then pull the gate open and come right through.
  That is one of our brave border patrolmen right there. I won't give 
Art's full name. But anyway, and the other thing we saw, there is a 
trail that goes right down there. That trail--and I know Mr. Griffith 
noticed this--but that trail doesn't come down all the way to the 
barrier. It leads--and you can follow it all the way through this area 
for miles. It comes right here to where the cord is instead of where 
the big barrier is.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to my friend.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Mr. Speaker, shocking. I mean, you know, it was 
shocking. And then the trail, if I remember correctly, and Mr. Gohmert 
can correct me if I am wrong, but the trail then goes on up into the 
hills.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, it absolutely does.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Where it makes it much harder for the border patrol 
agents, we heard, to track them down. So where there is a wall, even if 
they get over it somehow, it slows them down.
  The border patrol folks can then spot them, using some of that 
electronic equipment we have talked about, maybe using their pony 
patrols, you know, where they are out on horseback, but they can then 
have a better chance of catching a substantial number of these folks.
  But where you don't have that wall/fence barrier, and you just have a 
rope or a little fence--in fact, I know a picture was taken of it, 
too--we saw a rancher, who may not want his picture out there--but we 
saw a rancher who has to be in his seventies, and probably is in his 
eighties, who had climbed under the fence to show that even he, in his 
advanced age, could get under the fence. It was just remarkable.
  I mean, did you have the same reaction I did that this was just 
outrageous, and that, clearly, we just have a line that demarks it, so 
that if you are law-abiding, you know that is where to stop. But the 
people we are dealing with are not law-abiders, are they, sir?
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, it was interesting to hear from the 
landowners down there that, you know, even up to the 1990s, the people 
that came were, you know, mainly people looking for jobs, and they 
would put out food and stuff. The border patrolmen had confirmed this. 
We were hearing it from the landowners, and we were hearing it from the 
border patrol. It used to be that when they caught people, it was the 
first time they had been caught. They probably were just looking for a 
job in the U.S.
  But now, most of the people coming, other than family units, most of 
them have records, criminal records. Not just in Mexico. Like one that 
we were being told about is wanted for murder in Mexico, but for all 
kinds of crimes, including murder in the United States. And that this 
has become a common event. You catch them, you do the fingerprints, and 
then here comes this big criminal history, and that that is what they 
are getting so much of. That used

[[Page H991]]

to be an anomaly, and now it is regular course of business.
  I yield to Mr. Griffith.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. I would say to the gentleman that one of the things 
that really struck me that I probably didn't know or hadn't heard 
stories of--a lot of this was just confirming what I believed might be 
going on and bringing it visually home.
  But one of the things that I was astounded with was the residents in 
the area who were talking about it--we had a number of residents we met 
with--that the drug runners are bringing the drugs in, sometimes they 
are just dropping them off at a GPS site, sometimes they are handing 
them off and getting cash and bringing the cash back, but they also 
were looters. So all those properties along the border have to worry 
about home invasions and burglaries and thieving; because there is 
nothing to stop them, whatever they can carry, they are carrying out 
and carrying south as well.
  You know, if it was folks, that would be one issue--and I understand 
that issue is a big part of it--but if it was just folks coming north 
to look for a better way of life, that would be one thing. But a huge 
number of these people are coming north with methamphetamine that comes 
into my district, and probably into Mr. Gohmert's as well, with 
fentanyl, with heroin, and with marijuana, and they are coming in with 
that. They are taking the cash and anything they can steal back with 
them.
  And so it is a two-way street, so to speak. We have got illegal 
commerce going both ways through a rope as our defense for our country, 
a mere rope, an inch of cotton thread.
  Mr. GOHMERT. It is amazing.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Amazing.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, he brings up a matter that touched a memory 
of what was being said by my friend--and sometimes people say that 
sarcastically--John Garamendi is a friend. He is a good man.
  But there were people talking before us about the drugs and that 90 
percent of the drugs are coming through our legal ports of entry.
  I have been contending for some time, having spent so much time on 
the Texas-Mexico border, we cannot know how much drugs is coming where. 
They are catching more drugs coming through the legal port of entries. 
But there have been all hours--virtually every night down on that 
border south of McAllen, southwest there, where the border patrol tell 
us: We know. They send a group of people across in the middle of the 
night; they know we have to all come to start processing them, asking 
the questions, and we know that is when the big drug shipments come 
across, and they know we are tied up.
  And how do we know how much drugs? Nobody can say there is a 
percentage.
  I now yield to my good friend, Ralph Norman.
  Mr. NORMAN. Mr. Speaker, I was there along with him, and I just 
wanted to emphasize the statement--I don't think I will ever forget--
from an angel mom who said: Congressman Norman, a wall won't stop 
everyone. No wall will stop no one.
  And put that picture up right there. What we found on the border 
was--particularly where the wall ended where Mr. Gohmert showed the 
rope was.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, this is a different spot where the wall 
ended from the one that we are talking about a moment ago.
  Mr. NORMAN. Mr. Speaker, right. All along were bottles of water. We 
walked up on a sleeping bag. We walked up on all types of----
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, he pulled that sleeping bag out, and that 
was in the area where the wall stopped, was it not?
  Mr. NORMAN. Mr. Speaker, exactly. That is where it stopped. You know, 
and in talking with these agents, who are drastically understaffed, 
they can't do--they can't chase down everybody that comes.
  I will tell you, every agent we talked with had no hesitation to run 
after one person or run after a group of 10 or more. And my question to 
him was: How do you handle that type? That is how dedicated they are. 
That is how diligent they are. They are sacrificing their safety.
  The other thing I would point out that you and I saw to show you how 
deceptive these drug runners are, they use carpet; they have stitched 
together a carpet-type that wraps their feet so that you can't tell 
where they go. You can't track them. And that is all along. You can see 
where they are going, but you can't see the actual footprint that they 
are leaving.
  The other thing that stuck out to me that I thought was just amazing 
were to talk to the ranchers. That one rancher had had four home 
invasions. Now, think about it. How would you like to wake up, as he 
did, in the middle of the night, with a person dressed in black staring 
at his wife? How would you like, what the sheriff told us--I am not 
going to name his name--when his home--a bounty was put on his head. He 
woke up, because he had surveillance, to see four people coming in to 
kill him.

                              {time}  2030

  How would you like to see the rape trees that you and I saw? 
Children's underwear, clothing, it really is a humanitarian crisis. It 
is a crisis, as Congressman Griffith mentioned, the drugs in this 
country, the photo you showed where the ropes were, 60 percent of the 
heroin comes in there, 40 to 60 percent.
  So anybody, once you go down there--and what was sad is when they 
said we were some of the few who had. Our nine were some of the few who 
have ever visited the border.
  When you put a face with a situation like we saw with the ranchers, 
like we saw with the Border Patrol agents, like we saw with the Angel 
Moms--and the Angel Mom is the one who made the comment about the wall:
  A wall's not going to stop everyone. No wall stops no one.
  Her husband or her son was killed.
  The other Angel Mom we talked to, an illegal alien came in a store. 
The illegal asked for cigarettes. He gave it. While he was counting 
change, he shot him in the face. These are the type of real-life 
stories.
  Anybody who says that this thing isn't real, go down to the border. 
You look at what we saw and I think you will change your mind. And I 
think that now, if we don't do it now, it will never happen.
  Mr. GOHMERT. If my friend will yield for a question.
  Did you go in the Sasabe little store there where we stopped?
  Mr. NORMAN. I did, Congressman Gohmert. And to see what they sell, 
bullets for the drug-runners to carry out.
  Mr. GOHMERT. How were those bullets packaged? I had not seen them in 
a store like that.
  Mr. NORMAN. The bullets were packaged in a small plastic bag.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Have you ever seen bullets for sale in a plastic bag 
like that before?
  Mr. NORMAN. I have never seen bullets sold like that, and this is 
what we are dealing with. This is what we are dealing with.
  Mr. GOHMERT. What was the other big thing you don't normally see, but 
it took up a whole row there?
  Mr. NORMAN. The rations, the Army MREs.
  Mr. GOHMERT. MREs, Meals, Ready-to-Eat.
  Mr. NORMAN. MREs, which was food that would last for weeks.
  And I guess the other thing is these are professionals. They are 
armed. The rations that they carry out, they are planning to stay there 
for a long time, until they get the drugs over, and then they come 
back.
  It is our duty--we are not doing our duty to not stop this or make 
the effort to stop it.
  So, Congressman, I want to thank you for showing the pictures. What 
makes it real is to go down there and see it. And there is no way you 
can make the case that this is not a crisis, this is not a safety 
issue, this is not a--we are in it for the sovereignty of the country.
  Mr. GOHMERT. I hope the gentleman can stick around and we can talk 
some more.
  But we have been joined by our friend from northern California, 
Congressman Doug LaMalfa. I know his friends and families have endured 
quite a tragedy this past year with the fire, but I yield to the 
gentleman for such comments as he might have about our border.
  Mr. LaMALFA. Thank you, Mr. Gohmert, for leading this tonight and for 
allowing me and some of my colleagues some time on this.

[[Page H992]]

  Yes, coming from California, you know, we feel the brunt, as any 
border State does, especially. But we know it is pervasive through all 
50 States of this Nation.
  What are the ideals of this country, its founding? We welcome legal 
immigration. What is so hard about that concept?
  Instead, we get into these euphemisms of just immigration or 
immigrants or migrants. And that is the disservice that is being done 
by people out there who are listening and watching what we are arguing 
about here, that we are somehow all against immigration or against 
migrants or evacuees or refugees, and that couldn't be further of from 
the truth.
  You don't have a sovereign nation if you don't have defined borders 
that we as a nation set the policy, set what is going to happen with 
who is going to enter, and so it is chaos.
  So, Mr. Gohmert, we could do DACA after DACA, amnesty after amnesty. 
Ronald Reagan, in good faith, back in 1986, sat down and hammered 
something out, and the other side did not adhere to it.
  Mr. GOHMERT. What was that something? He signed off on the amnesty. 
What was it that the other side didn't provide that they had promised 
in that law?
  Mr. LaMALFA. A continued effort at establishing a solid border, a 
barrier. Mr. Norman talked about this as well.
  We are not talking about a solid fence for all 2,000 miles. We are 
talking about a system. We are talking about a system where the fence 
makes sense, where there would be patrols where you have the type of 
terrain where you don't need to do a whole lot.
  So it is a combination, like any other aspect of--whether it is a 
sports team, you know, a football offense, you have got linemen, 
quarterback, running backs, split ends, or even in the military 
situation.
  An Army tank by itself is a good piece of equipment, but you have got 
to have people in it. You have to have people surrounding it. You have 
to have air support. It is not that much different an analogy that you 
have to have an overall system that is tailored to each piece of region 
there.
  So when we have seen our colleagues on the other side of the aisle, 
in previous years, Bill Clinton, right on this floor, talking about the 
scourge of illegal immigration in this country--Barack Obama, Senator 
Schumer down the hall here, Senator Hillary Clinton, they have all 
talked about this, and others that I am not naming, they have all 
talked about the need to do this.
  So the question is: What has changed? What has changed in the last 2 
years, 4 years, 5 years, when we, just as recently as 2013, had funding 
put in place in a bipartisan fashion to put stronger and more border 
barrier up? What has changed?

  Is it merely because of the election of Donald J. Trump, and we are 
all in for resistance from here till whenever that Presidency ends, 
that we have to hold hostage the entire country to this concept of 
merely resistance instead of doing what is right for the border?
  This shouldn't be a partisan issue at all, and, in the past, it has 
proven not to be partisan. It has proven to be what makes sense for our 
sovereign border. And it is so sad and maddening, I think, for a lot of 
American people because here we are right now. The line has been drawn 
on this, and we need to get this done.
  Nobody wants to get the government operations open once again that 
are closed, that are being hampered right now, but there is a 
combination of things that need to happen here.
  What is so appalling is that this President has put a lot of 
different ideas on the table: a year ago, the four pillars, and 
recently, with different ideas, different combinations. He has invited 
every Member of this body to come down to the White House at one time 
or another and sit and talk about this.
  And when the other side roundly rejects the opportunity to have a 
conversation, that is what we are supposed to always try and do, have a 
conversation in this body, in this place, where we are duly elected, to 
hammer out our differences.
  We come from such diverse backgrounds and diverse States and diverse 
districts. Just California alone, 53 different Members of the House, 
very diverse viewpoints and ideas and geography. It is our job to 
hammer this stuff out.
  Why are Members of this House and over in the Senate getting away 
with roundly rejecting a conversation about our sovereign borders here, 
about the need to have a good steel barrier and the other combination, 
the other system, parts of the system that make the whole thing work? 
It is appalling, and we need to do better.
  Mr. Gohmert, you were speaking with Mr. Norman and others about your 
recent visit. I have also spent time on the California border, San 
Ysidro, and a little bit of time in Arizona as well.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Has the gentleman been there where the fence is or where 
the barrier is, like San Diego?
  Mr. LaMALFA. The San Diego portion, yes, but not currently, as 
additional pieces have been done. I need to go back again and see how 
the newest design is working and such.
  But we have had experience at this, and we see that the stations 
where people are coming through, we have got an incredible amount of 
volume being done, an incredible job by our personnel there to vet 
people and vet their vehicles and make sure that stuff is not getting 
through that should not get through, whether it is drugs or guns or 
what have you, and they are doing an incredible job.
  But we are also doing them a disservice by making it so overwhelming 
for them by not giving them the whole system and the whole amount of 
funding as the President laid out. He wants to put extra border 
security personnel, I think 2,750, as well as the facilities for those 
who are coming to meet that border for medical attention and for 
speeding up the process for those who are seeking asylum.
  What is wrong with this package? Or what is wrong with at least the 
conversation that could be had about well, if it is a little short in 
some area, then talk to the President, talk to all of us about what 
needs to be boosted up in it.
  Instead, it is a nonconversation, and that is what is so appalling 
for the American public who are watching this, who are depending on us 
to uphold our oath for the security of this Nation and of its people.
  Mr. GOHMERT. All three of you, Mr. Norman, Mr. LaMalfa, and Mr. 
Griffin, you guys are caring guys, and the Republicans are often 
castigated as being hard-hearted and not caring. But the stories we 
have heard from Angel Families and Angel Moms, I know it has affected 
you guys. We have talked about it.
  How anybody can work so hard to get elected to come to this body and 
not be deeply moved by these stories of families that are ripped apart 
because someone came in illegally and killed a family member--and I 
know it is a serious issue.
  We don't normally abide separating children from families, even 
though it is temporary, but there is a point to make sure that children 
are not handed over to sex traffickers.
  But it broke my heart as a felony judge, and it happens in this 
country over and over every single day of the year, that someone 
commits a crime and they are taken away; their children are separated 
from the parent--the parent goes to jail--because we don't believe in 
incarcerating the children for the father's sins or illegal activity or 
the mom's. It happens every day.
  So it rings kind of hollow to me when people start screaming about 
that and yet have no compassion whatsoever. We heard from a lot of 
Angel Moms, so many of those who are so derogatory about Republicans 
wanting to secure our borders, but they will not even give these moms 
who have lost precious children a minute of their time to hear these 
tragic stories.
  One of the stories we heard this weekend was there was a group of 
people who were being smuggled into the country, and as we have talked 
about before, nowadays, the drug cartels control every inch of our 
border from the south side--and, some might argue, from our side as 
well.
  There was a wife who was the only female with the group, and they got 
to the border and they spent, I believe it was, 7 days where the wife 
was raped by all the other men; and they would hold the husband hostage 
while the men, for

[[Page H993]]

several nights in a row, raped his wife, and there was nothing he could 
do about it.
  I mean, how hard-hearted do you have to be to not want to stop the 
invitations of the drug cartels to contribute to that kind of activity?
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Griffith) 
for his comments.

  I hope my friend from California won't have to go far because we have 
got enough microphones for everybody here.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Mr. Speaker, that was a horrible story. And what was so 
interesting was that the people who we were talking to in that group, 
some of them had helped these folks out when they were found and helped 
them recover as best they could in that situation. It was just a 
horrible situation, and it was just one of many stories.
  My colleague referenced the rape trees. We heard one of the ranchers 
tell us that he was out on his property and he saw all this women's 
underwear, and he picked up three trash bags full of women's underwear. 
That represents somebody, each one of those, somebody who had been 
raped.
  This is a crisis, as you know. It is a crisis, and it is a crisis of 
so many dimensions that we are not going to be able to talk about all 
the different aspects.
  One of the ranchers said to me: Why isn't anybody talking about the 
environment?
  It was really interesting. He pointed up to the mountains, and he 
said: Those mountains used to be filled with Douglas firs.
  Whether intentionally or unintentionally, whether it was somebody 
building a campfire and was negligent or whether it was a diversion by 
the cartels to pull all the first responders to one end of the county 
while they ran drugs into the other end of the county, he didn't know, 
but they burned down that mountain, all the trees on the whole range of 
mountains.
  Mr. GOHMERT. It was over 200,000 acres in one of the fires.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. It was.
  And he said, you know: That wasn't just old growth. That was virgin 
forest. Where are the folks who normally care about the environment? 
Why aren't they saying anything?
  And what I found really interesting, he talked about some of the 
other environmental problems with all the trash and so forth.
  Well, the next day, we were talking to border security, and the 
fellow who was in our car started talking about how once they put the 
wall up and made it more secure, it was amazing. It just took a few 
years for the wildlife to come back.

                              {time}  2045

  Apparently, where they cross on a regular basis and are having lay-
bys--that is where they hang out until they move on to the next camp, 
and they leave all their trash and stuff there--a lot of the wildlife 
had just disappeared. But once they started having a fence like this or 
the ability to have a road into certain areas and they cut that off, 
all of a sudden, the wildlife started coming back.
  He showed me a picture on his phone that he had taken of a bear. He 
said: That wasn't here 5, 6, 10 years ago. Now they are back. We have 
big cats. We have bear. It really is amazing.
  He didn't know that, the day before, I had been talking to a rancher 
about similar issues, that it is a real detriment to the environment.
  Then the other thing that probably won't get a lot of attention is 
that, even if we are not able to build the wall everywhere we want, it 
channels the folks. Just like we saw on the end of each wall, we saw 
several segments and you could see the paths. What happens is that you 
are then channeling the illegal immigrants into a particular area, 
which makes it easier for the electronic devices and the agents to get 
in there.
  If you have the electronic surveillance, you have the walls, or the 
wall fence, and you have the border agents with the supplies and the 
equipment, including dogs and horses, et cetera, that they need, then 
they know where there are pinch points where they can cut off a lot of 
this. But it will be an ongoing problem that we will have to deal with 
as a Nation.
  This year is just a part of it. As we close in and close off some 
areas, we will see other areas where they start going in, in greater 
numbers. But we will start concentrating on where we can catch more of 
the drugs coming in.
  As my colleague said, the lady had said you won't catch them all, but 
without a wall, you will not catch any of them. I think that those are 
two important points.
  Mr. Speaker, I don't know how the gentleman felt about that, but I 
would love to hear his opinion on that as well.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, I was going to ask Congressman Norman if he 
would reflect. We heard from a lot of landowners. Individually, we 
talked to a number of folks on a separate basis.
  But, yes, we see here the end of that barrier, all you have to do is 
just go to the end.
  Mr. Speaker, after all the folks we talked to in the last few days, I 
would like to ask Mr. Norman his thoughts about what needs to be done. 
We have some of our friends across the aisle who say we don't need any 
kind of barrier. We just need the technical equipment, the cameras, the 
drones. We don't need a wall.
  After what he has seen and heard, I would like to hear his thoughts 
regarding that.
  Mr. NORMAN. Mr. Speaker, specifically about the drones, we were 
talking to one of the agents, and he said: Tell me one drone that has 
ever run down an illegal alien and put him in handcuffs? Drones don't 
do that.
  Electronic devices alert you. Like the illegals that we saw at the 
end of the day who were near us, the cameras picked it up. But you have 
to have a body, somebody like these brave agents, to go catch them. 
That is what they do.
  But it is just words, as far as I can tell, to anybody who ever 
witnesses this.
  To hear the ranchers, we asked about vacations, with all of the 
crime. When you see their truck chained in the carport, as we saw, 
because somebody tried to steal it, we asked how they take a vacation. 
He said: Well, we have to stagger it.
  These are older people. They were 70 and up. At this stage of their 
life, for them to have to worry about their life, worry about their 
property being destroyed? How many waterlines did we see that were cut? 
How many fires did he point to on the mountaintops that were set fire?
  So these people are trying to make an honest living. Ranchers are 
some of the most honest, hardworking people I know. It is in their DNA. 
For them to have to worry about their safety, about their life, as was 
described when one of the ranchers went up to the person who was 
hobbling and he got shot and killed, you know, to hear----
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, that was a family member of some of the 
folks we were with.
  Mr. NORMAN. Mr. Speaker, that was his sister, who could talk about 
him.
  So that is why there is urgency to this thing. And, you know, go down 
there. Like Congressman Griffith mentioned, this is just a start. The 
$5.7 billion, it is a start to really get the job done and add enough 
fence to help these agents. If you do it for nothing else, help these 
agents so that at least it is quarantined where they come in.
  I compare it to a football game. I think I mentioned I had a friend 
of mine who is deathly opposed to the wall. I knew he went to the 
Clemson-Alabama game, and I knew he had tickets. I said: Did you have a 
problem?
  He said: With what?
  I said: Getting into the game.
  He said: Oh, no. I had a ticket.
  I said: Did you go in at one place?
  He said: Yeah, I went in at one place. We were in line, not for long.
  I said: You couldn't just walk in?
  Then he got it. He said: That is different.
  I said: Well, wait a minute. If you go to a football game and have it 
walled off where you had to go to a point of entry, you tell me how 
that is different than what we are talking about on this wall.
  He said, and this astounded me: Well, it wasn't a concrete wall.
  I said: Okay. It was a combination of metal. It was a combination of 
posts, concrete. It was a barrier. How would you feel if people had 
just walked in there and taken your seat and hadn't paid for it? What 
is the difference?
  He couldn't tell me. He could not tell me, because he couldn't.

[[Page H994]]

  That is what we are talking about here, but we are talking about 
human lives.
  Back on that story about the husband who watched the rape, what they 
did to him is stabbed him. They stabbed him in the side as to make a 
point that he was to bring the drug money back and watch his wife get 
raped over a 3-day period.
  So if anybody can watch that and see these people, I mean, really.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, that is right. It was seven people raping 
his wife 3 days in a row.
  Mr. NORMAN. Three days in a row.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Right. That is it.
  Mr. NORMAN. Mr. Speaker, it is the right thing to do. Now is the 
time. I applaud the gentleman for having these pictures. This brings it 
to life.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, we were all taking pictures down there.
  I want to go to a point about the caravans. We all heard about the 
caravans. We knew that this was a serious invasion coming. The 
mainstream, or lame stream, media was trying to say it was a 
manufactured crisis. These were thousands and thousands of people 
coming to try to invade this country.

  From news reports, it sounded like they were originally heading to 
Texas, but our Governor made it clear he was going to work with the 
Federal Government and anybody the President would send, and we were 
going to do all within Texas' power with Federal help and the military 
that was there, to keep them from coming in. Then we hear they are 
heading toward California, Congressman LaMalfa's State.
  It sounds like this new caravan that is ginned up may be heading to 
California, too. I would appreciate the Congressman's comments and 
thoughts about people heading toward California. People elected him. 
Surely, they can't be thrilled about an invasion coming like that.
  Mr. LaMALFA. Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that even Mexico is 
catching on to this, because, yes, it is about twice as many miles to 
come from those Central American countries just to gain entrance to the 
U.S. If you are doing it legally at a point of entry, why wouldn't you 
go to Texas and go through the process?
  It is almost double the mileage to come over toward the California 
border from Central America, because California has a sanctuary-state 
and a defy-the-Federal-Government-on-this-work attitude, and so it is a 
magnet for that.
  We are seeing, in Tijuana on the Mexican side of the border there, 
those folks are fed up with what is going on there.
  We are doing a disservice. The other side wants to talk about 
compassion. Where is the compassion when you are basically fooling 
people into saying: Oh, I guess we have an open door up there. Let's 
all go do it. Let's all head that way and get an opportunity.
  You are teasing people, basically.
  When we talk about compassion, as my colleagues mentioned, as a 
family, we were talking about this over the weekend. Rape trees? 
Articles of women's clothing there that are basically trophies for 
these people, showing who is in charge. It is the gangs at the border? 
Who are we helping?
  Then we talk about the individual names. I can name some Californians 
here. I will go back to Kate Steinle; Jamiel Shaw; and, more recently, 
a police officer from central California, Ronil Singh, serving 
honorably, cut down unnecessarily by people who shouldn't be having 
access to be able to commit crime in our country.
  So where are we? There are a lot of things we need to do.
  California, being very heavily involved in agriculture, high-value 
crops that really don't grow anywhere else in this country, we need a 
labor force. We need a legal labor force. All this goes hand-in-hand 
here.
  You do the workers a much better service by having them come here 
with legal documentation, with numbers that we decide as a country, and 
allow them to take part in what we see fit. They have documents; they 
are safer.
  We have so much more we can do by having a comprehensive approach to 
legally enforcing our borders and who comes across. It is better for 
the people and better for those who we ask to come in, and not have 
them break in.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, it is a great point, just a great point.
  We have heard from angel moms, angel families here, and they complain 
that they have tried to talk to our Speaker and others on the other 
side of the aisle, and they are not given time.
  But we heard from additional angel moms and families down in southern 
Arizona in the last few days. They didn't seem to me to be bitter. They 
were just heartbroken, seemed like, not only for losing their loved 
one, but there will continue to be people who were separated from their 
children forever, not just for the pendency of a hearing, but forever, 
because we weren't doing our job that we took an oath to do.
  Congressman Griffith, what about those meetings struck you?
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Mr. Speaker, I mean, we heard from so many people, and 
the ones who had lost loved ones really just wanted to try to make a 
difference. They just wanted to make a difference to make their 
communities safer, to make it safer for everybody. They are not going 
to bring back their family member, but they want to make the whole area 
safer.
  They believe that it is a crisis. Every one of them believed it was a 
crisis.
  One night, we were having dinner, and a lady who didn't know we were 
from the United States Congress walked over because she recognized one 
of the local officials and said we have to do something on the border--
spontaneously. We are just in town having dinner.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, she didn't know who we were.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Mr. Speaker, she had no idea who we were until she 
walked over and said that and then was invited to address us: Well, you 
have some Members of the United States Congress here. Why don't you 
tell them what you think we need to do?
  There wasn't any question. These folks who live right down there on 
the border, they believe that the wall, fence, whatever you want to 
call that structure there in your picture, they believe that that 
helps, that it is not the whole equation, but that it is a big help and 
that we have to do it.
  They were very encouraging to us, to a person, to continue to work 
hard to try to secure that border, to stop this humanitarian crisis, to 
stop our security crisis, to stop the environmental crisis.
  That one person was adamant that this is devastating. He was an 
environmentalist person who really was very, very concerned about what 
had happened to the ecology in his area and to the environment. He 
attributes that directly to the flood of not a handful of people, but 
tens of thousands coming across.
  One of the ranchers that we talked to, their ranch is looking at 
10,000 or more people coming across there every year.
  We are not talking about a trickle. We are talking about a flood. We 
are talking about a crisis.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, I know some on the left try to say, oh, 
this is because you are a xenophobe or afraid of Hispanics. I know this 
is a generalization, but personally, in my opinion, I think the three 
things that helped make America the greatest country in history were a 
love of God, a love of family, and a hard-work ethic.
  Generally speaking, when I look at the Hispanic culture, all my 
friends, they have a love of God, tremendous devotion to family, kind 
of like a lot of people in my hometown used to have, but don't have.

                              {time}  2100

  I think the Hispanic culture can help reinvigorate what made America 
the greatest country in the world. I want those folks coming. But like 
Congressman LaMalfa was saying: Legally. I know Congressman LaMalfa has 
got a lot of agriculture, and it takes a lot of workers who are willing 
to get out there and sweat. I hear it is harder and harder to find 
those folks. We know it. Hispanic folks are some of the hardest working 
folks I have ever been around. But, as Congressman LaMalfa said, it has 
got to be legal.
  Some people are saying: Well, so what is it going to take? Why don't 
you throw out there on the table so many more visas? And my contention 
is: We have been through this in `86, again when Clinton was President; 
how many times do we have to be fooled?
  I keep contending: We secure the border and we can work this out. We 
are

[[Page H995]]

already the most generous country in the history of the world when it 
comes to legally allowing people to come into this country. Nobody 
gives a million visas like we do--over a million. But, even then, we 
can still get the workers we need, we can do what we need.
  But as long as that border is porous--it is silly to keep luring more 
people in with the hope that they will be given amnesty before we 
secure the border, because then we will see more and more of the human 
tragedy that both gentlemen have been talking about.
  California has had its share of human tragedy at the hands of illegal 
aliens, but so has the whole country.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to my friend from California (Mr. LaMalfa) one 
more time, and then I would like to hear from my friend, Congressman 
Griffith, before we wrap this up.
  Mr. LaMALFA. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman again for yielding.
  Mr. Speaker, the bottom line, for our personnel on the border, our 
Border Patrol folks: this infrastructure helps them to do their job 
much easier, with much less risk. We are talking about the stadium 
analogy. Having a focused effort where they don't have to run every 
mile. They can put one every 10 miles, one officer every 10 miles.
  Mr. GOHMERT. By the way, we saw, last week, a big photograph of a 
massive metal barrier around the perimeter of the 2016 Democratic 
National Convention. Somebody there knows that walls or fences work 
when they are combined with security.
  I yield to my friend.
  Mr. LaMALFA. Of course they do. They have worked for millennia. The 
argument these days is really very specious on this.
  I throw it right back: How is it compassionate to put people at risk 
with the magnet this country is, the opportunity it is, when we are 
making people take horrendous risk, whether it is the men in the 
family, their wives, their children, the separation, and all the things 
that happen. That is not compassion at all. It, indeed, is a horrendous 
crime against them, by giving them these mixed signals.
  We need to have a legal process for people who want to come here to 
work, who want to come here for education, whatever it is. I do not see 
the downside of anything they have argued about here tonight: Mr. 
Griffith on the environmental side of it, the wildlife and all that. 
There is no downside to what we are talking about. Once we put this 
barrier in place and that infrastructure is paid for, it will pay for 
itself many, many, many times over, not just in tax dollars, but in 
people's lives, in people's quality of life, in this country and those 
that would approach it.
  There is no negative argument to this, other than the rhetoric out 
there in this resistance movement that is seeming trying to cash out, I 
guess, in terms of elections.
  When we are talking about the census that is coming up here, the 
number of illegal immigrants that are in California is probably untold.
  But here is a distortion that happens in California: We may have up 
to three or more Members of Congress in the State who are representing 
a population that is not legal here, which is unfair to the other 49 
States and their representation because they should be counting 
citizens and not illegal aliens in this country in that State.
  Mr. GOHMERT. So you are going on the record as saying, you believe 
the question of citizen or noncitizen should be on the census?
  Mr. LaMALFA. Absolutely. I think anybody with common sense would look 
at it that way.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Well, that would exclude some of our Federal judges, 
apparently.
  Mr. LaMALFA. I can't speak for everything.
  Yeah, the common sense seems to be lost because of this obfuscation, 
the resistance, and what have you that is a political end.
  Normal people sitting around their kitchen table would say: Yeah, 
that is right, we should count citizens.
  We treat people, otherwise, humanely in this country, we help them. 
We need to help people where they come from. Whether we are talking 
about the refugee situation, whether it is in the Middle East, or in 
Central America, help them to thrive where they are, help them to beat 
back the things that are causing the problems there, whether it is the 
drug cartel. We shouldn't have the magnet of drug use in this country, 
but that is a whole other discussion and battle. But let's help them 
where they are. We are that compassionate country that will do so. We 
can't be a magnet for, basically, an erased border and think that is 
going to provide a solution.
  Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for the time tonight, and my 
colleagues for bringing this argument forward. I hope the American 
people can hear that we care about all human life. We do. But address 
it in a way that works as a sovereign nation and for other nations as 
well.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, I thank Congressman LaMalfa, and I thank my 
friend, Congressman Norman, who was here earlier, for their comments.

  Mr. Speaker, we ought to be able to extend that barrier just a little 
further. It is too easy to walk around the end. Where it is there, it 
does a lot of good.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Griffith) 
for his comments.
  Mr. GRIFFITH. Mr. Speaker, I thank Congressman Biggs and Congressman 
Gosar for inviting us out there to see this, making the arrangements 
for us to meet with people who live on the border, people who work on 
the border, people who are trying to secure America's border and are 
putting their lives on the line, and they know that. They have had 
friends and family members who have died. I appreciate them inviting us 
down. And I appreciate Congressman Gohmert for having this time this 
evening and giving me an opportunity to talk about some of the things I 
saw. This discussion will continue because there is a crisis on the 
American border.
  I yield back.
  Mr. GOHMERT. Mr. Speaker, I thank Congressman Griffith. I appreciate 
his wisdom. I always have and always will.
  I, again, echo the comments he made about thanking Congressman   Andy 
Biggs, for arranging this, and Paul Gosar for his help. They are both 
fantastic Members of Congress from Arizona.
  I thank Arizona for sending   Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar here. They 
are invaluable.
  I hope we are going to be able to help Arizona finish--look, the 
President has already backed off of the $25 billion requested. I 
thought that was an exceedingly reasonable request when you look at the 
damage occurring to families all over America, and especially to the 
families of people who are being lured in here to their death or 
detriment.
  Let's move that fence a little further along. Let's get an agreement 
done so that we can help out these landowners and the people who are 
suffering, so no more people will be stabbed, even though they were not 
American citizens, stabbed and forced to watch your wife be repeatedly 
raped. I mean, how callous do you have to be to say: No, we don't want 
to deal with that problem; we are going to allow that to keep going? 
How callous do you have to be?
  As we understand it, the family member--we have talked to his 
sister--he went out there and always provided water and food to people 
who were illegally crossing into the United States and were illegally 
on their property, and yet he ends up being shot dead in the head.
  It is time to start doing more to protect Americans. It is time to 
start doing more out of compassion for the people of Mexico to dry up 
the tens of billions of dollars every year going to the drug cartels. 
Let's extend the barriers where we need it. Let's do the humane thing 
for our friends south of the border, and especially those people to 
whom we have taken an oath to protect their constitution, including 
them.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would remind Members to properly 
yield and reclaim time in debate.

                          ____________________