[Congressional Record Volume 157, Number 109 (Wednesday, July 20, 2011)]
[Senate]
[Pages S4695-S4699]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
TAXING AND SPENDING
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. President, many of our good colleagues like to
suggest our Nation has historic deficits because the American people
are not taxed enough. Some claim the so-called Bush tax cuts are the
culprit, but the numbers tell a different story. In fact, these tax
cuts were fully implemented in 2003. Annual revenues have increased
steadily from $1.782 trillion to $2.524 trillion in 2008, and they
increase every year, for an increase of more than 40 percent. That is
double the rate of inflation after the tax cuts took effect.
In fact, since the recession of 2008 and the weakest economic
recovery in modern history, revenue has now declined. That makes sense.
With high unemployment there are fewer taxpayers and, naturally,
revenue declines.
Going forward, however, the CBO projects revenue as a share of the
GDP will rise to 18.4 percentage points of GDP by 2021. That is
assuming extension, not elimination, of the 2001 and 2003 tax
reductions. Revenue is therefore projected to return to its historic
18.4 percent average.
It would seem, then, that the American people are already taxed
enough to finance a government whose spending has grown wildly out of
control. The real problem is, while revenue will return to its historic
average, if nothing is done to slow spending, annual outlays will
increase from $3.7 trillion today to $5.7 trillion by 2021, for an
increase of more than 50 percent. As a share of GDP, spending will
remain, on average, above 23 percent of GDP. That is nearly 3
percentage points above the historic average.
Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, I could not agree more with the Senator's
point on the real driver of our deficit and debt. We have this debt
because government is spending too much. But this is not a matter of
personal preference; this is an indisputable and empirically verifiable
fact. The systemic
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problem this country faces is too much spending, not too little tax
revenue.
I understand our friends on the other side of the aisle are in a
tough spot. They know this, but their left wing base refuses any
changes to the spending programs driving these deficits and debt. They
don't want to scare off middle-class Americans by recommending the tax
increases necessary to close the gap without major changes for spending
programs.
When it comes to offering any real plans, they have resorted to
burying their heads in the sand, as indicated on this photo. They
choose to ignore the real problem. They hope their friends in the media
do the same thing--ignore the fact that they are ignoring the problem.
As you can see from this chart, the problem is spending.
Mr. SESSIONS. Our friends on the other side of the aisle are almost
exclusively focused on hitting up the taxpayer for more revenue.
Mr. HATCH. That is right. They are talking about revenue, but the tax
increases they are recommending are more distracting than illuminating.
I think it is fair to say that all of the talk by the President and his
congressional allies about corporate jets and yachts is a classic red
herring. On this chart, it indicates this:
The name of this fallacy comes from the sport of fox
hunting in which a dried, smoked herring, which is red in
color, is dragged across the trail of the fox to throw the
hounds off the scent. Thus, a ``red herring'' argument is one
which distracts the audience from the issue in question
through the introduction of some irrelevancy.
Mr. SESSIONS. Well, we use this turn of phrase all the time, but I am
afraid it is worth discussing how politicians use it.
Mr. HATCH. As you can see, that is what they are doing. I am glad the
Senator brought this up. As I just read, my research found that the
term ``red herring'' comes from the sport of fox hunting. Again, a red
herring argument is one that distracts the audience from the issue in
question through the introduction of some relevancy.
In my view, all of these tax issues that President Obama and those on
the other side of the aisle are discussing are red herrings. They want
to distract Americans from the real driver of our deficits and debt and
the real choices Democrats have to but are refusing to make.
Let me walk through some examples. If we were to raise the
depreciable life on corporate Jets from 5 years to 7 years, as the
Democrats propose, it would yield us $3.1 billion over 10 years.
Mr. SESSIONS. How many days of debt reduction over that 10-year
period would a $3 billion savings or increase in taxes amount to?
Mr. HATCH. To hear the President talk, you would think this is the
key to balancing our budget. We all know he is overstating the case. It
would provide only a month of debt reduction is about all it would do?
Given its essential role in his deficit reduction proposals, you would
hope so. But I am sorry to disappoint my friend from Alabama, because,
according to our calculations, that amount equates to only 20 hours and
23 minutes of the debt over the next 10 years. Unfortunately, that
doesn't even begin to solve the problem. Of course, as you can see
here, $13 trillion, the Obama debt; there would be $3.1 billion over
time with the corporate jet taxes; and remaining above the debt--
assuming they didn't spend more, which is an assumption you can't
make--would be $12.9 trillion. Is the problem solved? Of course not.
Mr. SESSIONS. Well, let me say I appreciate the work of the ranking
member of the Finance Committee, a long-time member of that committee.
It seems to me pretty clear that the President's budget he submitted
earlier this year--which I have to say was voted down 97 to 0 in the
Senate--would have increased the deficit over 10 years by $13 trillion.
He has also suggested his plan to increase taxes on corporate jets by
$3 billion would somehow make a difference in that. I think Senator
Hatch is right, that is not accurate.
How about other proposals we hear from the Democratic side, such as
cutting back mortgage interest deduction for yachts used for second
homes?
Mr. HATCH. Well, in other words, by our calculations, the savings
from this proposal would be even more meager. If Congress enacted this
change, we could cover the debt from the Obama budget for all of 15
hours and 47 minutes. Again, this is not solving the problems of the
burdensome debt the President is piling on.
Mr. SESSIONS. It is shocking to see how small those numbers are, and
we aren't hearing that in the press and in the national discussions.
From the talk we have heard about these proposals, you would think they
would yield more than 2 days of debt reduction over 10 years.
Mr. HATCH. You would think so. But the other 3,651 days of debt under
the 10-year Obama budget would not even be touched.
There is a third red herring that has been thrown out there. Maybe
that one closes the gap. We have all heard the President talk about
hitting American oil companies by reducing or eliminating domestic
energy incentives. This is a real priority of his and of congressional
Democrats.
We had a cloture vote on a bill by our friend from New Jersey to
extract $21 billion in revenue from U.S. oil companies. The Finance
Committee had a hearing where the other side touted the benefits of
this tax increase by grilling the CEOs of the top five oil companies.
If you listened to my friends on the other side, one would think an
additional $21 billion would solve all our fiscal problems. Their
rhetoric suggests this is the only thing standing between more money to
send kids to college and provide school lunches.
But I wonder if my friend from Alabama might put into perspective how
much of the 10 years of debt under the President's budget this proposal
would cover.
Mr. SESSIONS. Well, with $13 trillion--that is 13 thousand billion--
$21 billion won't amount to much.
Mr. HATCH. Well, here is how many days of the 10-year debt of the
Obama budget that would be covered. Keep in mind, this proposal
originated from our friend from New Jersey, the head of the Senate
Democratic campaign operation, and his tag teammate, the head of the
Senate Democratic message operation--the so-called war room--the senior
Senator from New York. I will let others decide whether this proposal
was more political than substantive, but people should at least know
the facts about this proposal before deciding.
As a deficit reduction proposal, this is very weak tea. This is a
much ballyhooed proposal, and it would cover the deficit for, in
actuality, 5 days 18 hours and 47 minutes.
As you can see, here is the oil rig proposal. We have a $13 trillion
debt--actually it is about a $13.5 trillion debt right now--and you
would save $21 billion from the extra taxes on oil and gas. Even at
that, we would have a remaining debt of $12.9 trillion. So is the
problem solved? Of course not.
Mr. SESSIONS. The Senator has served on the Finance Committee for a
number of years and is now the senior ranking Republican there. If you
listen to our friends on the other side of the aisle, it would appear
that all fiscal problems could be resolved by taxing millionaires. Is
that an argument that the Senator is familiar with?
Mr. HATCH. Well, I sure am. Anyone watching C-SPAN will see our
friends on the other side making the argument day in and day out. When
I hear this argument, I often think of a saying from the distinguished
former chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Russell Long.
When talking about tax reform, Senator Long said: Some might reduce the
politics to this: ``Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind
the tree.''
And since there are a lot more folks who aren't millionaires than
are, the Democrats have calculated the politics of class warfare works.
All of our problems could be solved if the rich paid their fair share,
according to the Democrats. As politics, this might sound--I don't even
think it sounds good, but as tax policy and its proposal to reduce our
deficits and debt, this is the fourth red herring. It does not come
close to fixing the deficit from the Obama budget.
Our friends on the other side frequently cite the Tax Policy Center--
or TPC--for tax data. That makes some sense. TPC is a professional
think tank that is a joint venture of two center-left think tanks, the
Urban Institute
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and the Brookings Institution. With the exception of its director,
Donald Marron, TPC is largely staffed by highly qualified tax
professionals who worked in Democratic Treasury Departments and
Democratic Hill offices. TPC is a solid professional outfit, but you
can't ignore its institutional perspective. To be fair, I would say the
same thing about the Heritage Foundation. Their institutional
perspective is more likely to line up with folks on my side of the
aisle. Nevertheless, I am drawing from TPC data, some of the
assumptions with which I might not agree.
According to TPC models and estimates, for 2011, American households
earning more than $1 million account for 12 percent of the Nation's
pretax income, they pay 19 percent of Federal taxes and carry an
average tax rate of 29 percent.
Even more critical from my perspective, these taxpayers also account
for 38 percent of all flow-through income. Flow-through income is
predominantly earnings from the ownership of small businesses. So
raising rates on the rich will squarely hit those who create and expand
the small businesses that need to be the engine of our economic
recovery.
But let us be clear about something: Higher taxes on these wealthy
individuals will not only have adverse economic consequences, it will
not even provide the deficit and debt reduction suggested by the left.
Even if all the income--every dime they earned, of those earning more
than $1 million--were confiscated with a 100-percent rate--with the
unlikely assumption of no taxpayer behavioral response--for the year of
confiscation, these higher taxes would yield about $893 billion. That
would be a one-time confiscation. Surely none of these folks would
continue to work, save, or invest in the future if the government were
to confiscate all their income. They would have to cover all their
other expenses, including State and local taxes, from savings. After
taking everything from the folks behind the tree--in this case, the
folks earning more than $1 million--how many days of the 10-year Obama
budget debt would be eliminated?
Mr. SESSIONS. Well, not many, is my answer to that. But as often as
the President talks about taxing the rich or spreading the wealth
around as a cure for our fiscal problems, you would think it would
balance the budget. But would he get us there?
Mr. HATCH. I say to my friend from Alabama, confiscating all the
income from those earning over $1 million does not even fix 1 year of
the 10 years of projected Obama debt. It would cover 244 days, 16 hours
and 34 minutes. That is it. Not even 1 year.
Look at this. Federal policymakers could kiss that revenue source
goodbye after an event such as confiscation. So there you are: $13
trillion. Take the $893 billion. If we took every dime that
millionaires make this next year, the $893 billion, we would be down to
$12.1 trillion in remaining debt. Is the problem solved? Of course not.
Mr. SESSIONS. Going back to the other chart on taxation and spending
under the Obama budget, I would note President Obama's budget raised
taxes significantly, increased spending even more, and as a result,
over 10 years, created more debt projected than if he had made no
budget at all.
Mr. HATCH. That is right.
Mr. SESSIONS. That is a stunning thing. You can talk about raising
taxes on American workers, on families, on small businesses and on the
wealthy and investors all you want, but this talk is easy. It ignores
the root causes of the deficit and debt problem here in Washington:
out-of- control spending.
It may sound like a cliche to the American people that Republicans
are always talking about out-of-control spending. We wish it were a
joke, but sadly, it is true.
Mr. HATCH. I wish it were too. I am surprised about this debate. The
press is not pushing Democrats on what a joke their proposals about
jets and yachts are, but the American people--the people I represent in
Utah--understand these are red herrings. These proposals deal with the
President's legacy of debt for less than 2 days--less than 2 days--over
the next 10 years. Add in the much-publicized tax hit on the hated oil
companies and you get another 5 days.
So after all the demagoguery on jets and yachts and oil companies,
you get about 1 week of deficit reduction. And even throwing in a one-
time confiscation of all the income for taxpayers earning above $1
million, you can only add 244 days. Add it all up and there is still
less than 1 year. All those tax increases don't even get to one-tenth
of the debt President Obama will add over the next 10 years.
It is class warfare. We all know that. All the talk from the White
House and from our friends on the other side is on behalf of proposals
that would address, at best, less than 10 percent of the debt forced on
American families by the President's budget.
I ask my friend from Alabama if he might conclude with the classic
definition of a red herring.
Mr. SESSIONS. Let's take another look at the definition of red
herring on the chart. It says: The name of this fallacy comes from the
sport of fox hunting in which a dried, smoked herring, which is red in
color, is dragged across the trail of the fox to throw the hounds off
the scent. Thus, a ``red herring'' argument is one which distracts the
audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some
irrelevancy.
Our friends on the other side, using White House talking points,
sophisticatedly prepared, appear to have resorted to red herrings with
their deficit reduction proposals. They want the American people to
think a few easy tax increases on the rich or yacht owners or corporate
jet users or oil companies--the people behind the tree--can solve our
debt crisis without spending reforms. They hope these red herrings will
hide a serious Democratic vulnerability. If they are not going to
address spending in a serious way, then massive tax increases on the
middle class will be a necessity.
These red herrings are designed to throw those citizens who care
deeply about reducing the $13 trillion debt that the President's budget
will incur off the trail.
The trail of deficit reduction leads to one of two places:
restraining out-of-control spending; or crushing tax relief increases
on middle-class families.
Restraining spending is not a red herring. It cuts to the heart of
our fiscal problems. It goes to the root of the problem.
The President and his allies need to come clean with the American
people. The President so far has refused to present a deficit reduction
plan in these negotiations that are going on. He says he has one, but
we never see it so it can be scored and analyzed. The White House seems
content to produce cheap talking points justifying these red herrings,
rather than meaningfully addressing our debt crisis. As I have said
before, and will again, this shows a disrespect for the American
people.
Our people deserve better. They need honest, fair analyses of the
problems we face. I expect they will reward those who talk straight
with them and offer serious grown-up efforts to reduce our debt with
their support; and I think they will be unhappy once it is realized how
little these proposals would impact the huge debt crisis we are now
facing.
Mr. HATCH. I thank my colleague for his kind remarks.
I have to say that not only would it not impact it, but it would
impact a lot of jobs.
I remember when we did the so-called yacht tax back in the early
1990s, the left thought that was a wonderful thing. We got after all
these rich yacht owners. When they found out that thousands and
thousands of jobs were lost because of that bill, they immediately
turned tail and got rid of the bill pretty quickly.
What we haven't said is we are assuming the $13 trillion is going to
stay the same. Actually, in the next 10 years there is a good chance it
will double to over $20 trillion and possibly as high as $25 trillion
or $26 trillion the way this administration is spending. Frankly, we
are going to have a very difficult time ever coming out of this hole we
are in right now.
All I can say is I like the President personally, but he hasn't
presented a program. He is calling on Congress to do it all, and we
have our various problems here in getting together, but he hasn't led
out on these programs, and neither have the other people down at the
White House.
In fact, one of the problems is I can't name one person at the White
House
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who has ever created a private-sector job. And let's face it, they are
good at creating public-sector jobs, but they are not very good at
creating private-sector jobs.
The real answer is to work our way out of them, and instead of
talking about shared sacrifice, let's talk about shared prosperity by
allowing the engine of this economy, the small business community, to
pull us out.
Even so, we haven't even talked about the fact that the deficit this
year, in 1 year, is $1.5 trillion, $1.6 trillion. I might add that we
are going to have at least probably close to $1 trillion deficit every
year under the President's own actuarial program, every year up through
2020. You can imagine how we are going to continue to increase the debt
without doing anything about it. Frankly, that is if his actuaries are
right, and they are usually always wrong on the low side. That includes
actuaries on both sides, to be honest with you. The expenses have
always been more.
I think what is important here is that we get real about working
together and coming up with a way of resolving these tremendous debt
problems. The future of our young people in this country depend on
that, and I don't want to let them down.
I want to thank my colleague for his colloquy with me and I
appreciate it very much.
Mr. President, I yield the floor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from South Dakota.
Mr. JOHNSON of South Dakota. Mr. President, I suggest the absence of
a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will call the roll.
The legislative clerk proceeded to call the roll.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from New Jersey.
Mr. MENENDEZ. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the order
for the quorum call be rescinded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. MENENDEZ. Mr. President, I came to the floor. I heard an
interesting colloquy going on between my colleagues, my friend from
Utah and my friend from Alabama, and I saw that my name was invoked, so
I thought I would come to the floor and maybe elucidate for them and
set the record a little bit straight.
No. 1 is I am no longer the chairman of the Democratic Senatorial
Campaign Committee, so my focus in ending the tax breaks that the big
five oil companies in this country get to the tune of $21 billion that
the taxpayers of this country give in essence to big five oil companies
that will make $144 billion in profits this year I simply think don't
need it in order to be able to achieve what the marketplace has allowed
them to do. And I am happy for them. I am happy for all their
stockholders and shareholders and everyone else, but they don't need
$21 billion of the taxpayers' money and tax break--which, by the way,
they describe them as these poor oil companies that, wow, we are going
to stop domestic production.
One of the breaks I want to finish actually says you can't be doing
what you are doing. Here in the United States, when you get access to
the lands and waters to drill for oil and gas, you pay a royalty.
Basically, a royalty is a license fee.
The oil companies figured out, Well, when I do this in other
countries in the world, instead of paying a license fee, let me ask
them to pay a tax for the same amount that it would have cost to pay a
license fee. Because then I get the tax and I get to deduct it totally
against my obligations here in the United States, which means that for
those poor oil companies that I just heard about, we are, in essence,
as taxpayers, subsidizing the exploration of foreign oil which goes on
a world marketplace--does not come back to the United States--to the
tune of $21 billion.
If we want to talk about the poor, I want to talk about poor people
whom Republicans, it seems, want to go after. They want to go after in
their budget the things people need to get through every day. It is
called Medicare for seniors and the disabled. I know it from my
mother's own life. She worked in the factories of New Jersey, worked a
lifetime to help build family and community. She had a terrible
disease, Alzheimer's, and she would not have lived with the dignity she
deserved in the twilight of her life but for what my sister and I were
able to do for her and Medicare as her baseline of retirement security.
That is what I call poor.
I call poor, young children who, under Medicaid, are getting money
for specific health care that through no fault of their own they
desperately need in order to have the quality of life--to even be able
to breathe, children with respiratory ailments--so they can fulfill
their God-given potential in school. That is poor.
But oil companies that are going to make $144 billion in profits,
they are poor? Give me a break. I know we belittle the fact that it is
only $21 billion that we would put directly to deficit reduction, but
if we start putting in those $21 billion and then put in the billions
in ethanol subsidies and then the horse racing industry and the
corporate jets and we start adding it all up, maybe if, instead of
working-class and middle-class working families whom our Republican
colleagues in the Congress seem to want to put all the emphasis on, if
we talked about the wealthiest people in the country and said to them:
We need you to help the country get out of this difficult time, they, I
think, would be incredibly patriotic.
I have talked to a lot of wealthy people who told me if it is to help
the country and if we are going to get our house in order, I am willing
to help the country. I am willing to pay a little bit more.
But, no, that is not possible to even talk about. It is not possible
to talk about big oil companies that are going to make record profits.
It is not possible to talk about ethanol. It is not possible to talk
about the wealthiest in the country, millionaires, multimillionaires,
and billionaires. Yet I did not hear any of these voices when Ronald
Reagan raised the debt ceiling 17 times for the equivalent of $4
trillion in today's money. I never heard any of these voices say how
irresponsible it was when George Bush raised it seven times, for $5
trillion--basically, the same amount of money he used to give tax cuts
to the wealthiest people in the country but which became the collective
debt of the United States. No, I did not hear any of it then.
I had no intention of coming to the floor. But when the facts are
wrong and my name is invoked, I intend to come and set the record
straight. I am happy to debate my colleagues. We need to make sure
working-class, middle-class families in this country do not bear the
overwhelming consequences of our effort to end our deficits and meet
our obligations. We cannot continue to hear we cannot close the
loopholes in the Tax Code for the poor oil companies, poor corporate
jets, poor multimillionaires and billionaires, all because that would
somehow be a tax increase, but we can take it right out of the pockets
of middle-class and poor families by virtue of the services we deny
them--so they will not have the money to be able to produce or scrounge
or keep what little they have been able to acquire--and say that
somehow is not a tax increase.
I hear about entitlements all the time. I have a new sense of what my
Republican colleagues mean by entitlements. The oil companies are
entitled to their $21 billion. Those are just two provisions. I could
come up with a whole bunch of others for which they get tax breaks. The
oil companies are entitled. The ethanol producers, they are entitled.
The large agribusinesses in the country, they are entitled. But
families who struggle every day to make ends meet? No, they are not
entitled. We have to cut their entitlements.
Something is wrong with that equation. A nation, at the end of the
day, in its budget, talks about its values as a country. We all have a
budget. We may not think about it as a budget in our personal lives,
but it is income, however we derive it, through gainful employment, the
job we have, maybe some investments we make, maybe some interests we
get from our savings. That is our revenue. Then there are our
expenditures. The house we keep for our family, the insurance we
provide for their health care, the education, the tuition we pay for
the education we want them to achieve, the church or synagogue we tithe
to, the charitable contribution we make to an organization that we
believe is worthy of the
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work we do, that is an expression of our personal values.
The Nation's budget, which is both revenues and expenditures, is an
expression of our collective values as a country. I cannot understand,
in that expression of collective values, how it is that the very
wealthy, that the very influential, that Big Oil is entitled but
working-class families and the poorest among us are not entitled to
realize their hopes, dreams, and aspirations in the greatest country on
the face of the Earth.
Anyhow, I wanted to come, since I heard my name invoked before. I
think the facts were not quite up to par. There is, obviously, a
different view.
Having had the opportunity to set the record straight, I yield the
floor.
I suggest the absence of a quorum.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Cardin). The clerk will call the roll.
The assistant bill clerk proceeded to call the roll.
Mr. TOOMEY. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the order for
the quorum call be rescinded.
The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Merkley). Without objection, it is so
ordered.
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