[Congressional Record Volume 157, Number 2 (Thursday, January 6, 2011)]
[House]
[Pages H75-H82]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
SPENDING CUTS IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of
January 5, 2011, the gentleman from Missouri (Mr. Akin) is recognized
for 60 minutes as the designee of the majority leader.
Mr. AKIN. Madam Speaker, I appreciate an opportunity to talk about a
subject that I think has been on a lot of Americans' minds over
particularly the last couple of years, and it's the subject of spending
cuts in the Federal Government.
Now, unless people are perhaps tuned in to some other planet, they
realize that the Federal Government is spending more money than we take
in, and so we're running all of these deficits. Therefore, the idea is
that we need to do some spending cuts. So that's what we wanted to talk
about here for a little while, and I'm joined by some good friends and
some very trusted Congressmen on this subject.
Just to try to frame what we're talking about a little bit--and I
usually have some charts to go along with this, but the charts haven't
been printed yet--if you take a look, these are pretty simple numbers.
If you take a look at the spending projection for 2011, it's $3.834
trillion, and the income projection is $2.567 trillion. The two numbers
aren't the same, as you notice, and basically we're spending more than
a trillion, close to a trillion, trillion and a half dollars that we
don't have. And that suggests, for most Americans that have some level
of common sense, that we're going to have to make some cuts in
spending. So that's the overall subject, and I think it's one that gets
everybody's attention and that we need to give some thought to.
Now, obviously, right off the beginning of the bat, the new party,
the Republicans, are running the House, and we're trying to start off
setting a good note in being fiscally responsible. There's a fund
that's allocated to each Congressman for them to run their office, to
make their airplane flights, to pay phone bills, and things like that.
We cut that 5 percent just as, in the sense, an indication of the fact
that we're serious about doing this spending cut. That certainly
doesn't get us to where we have to go, but at least it's a start.
There are a number of different ways we can approach this subject,
but one of the other things that we'll be voting on this week, aside
from the 5 percent cut in congressional budgets, is the fact that we
want to get rid of this tremendously expensive government takeover of
the health care in America. It's known as ObamaCare, I suppose. And I'm
joined by good friend who has joined me on the floor many times in the
past 2 years, a medical doctor from Georgia, Dr. Gingrey, and he is
somebody who knows, inside and out, not only the medical profession but
this bill which has the government taking over all of health care.
Now, as you can imagine, that would be expensive. It would be
expensive to American citizens. It would be expensive to businesses and
expensive to the Federal Government. So, one place we can start talking
about spending cuts is what we'll be voting on before too long, which
is to get rid of this government takeover of health care, and for that
reason, I would like to recognize my good friend, Dr.--Congressman--
Gingrey from Georgia.
Mr. GINGREY of Georgia. Madam Speaker, I appreciate the gentleman
from Missouri yielding, and I know that when he was referring to my
medical expertise in regard to knowing that subject inside and out, no
pun was intended when he mentioned that.
I do know a lot more about health care, probably, than I do about
government spending, but one thing's for sure, Madam Speaker, as the
gentleman pointed out: We are spending way too much money. And I think
the figures today, this year, last year, we spent a third more than we
took in. I mean, you know, we have a revenue stream from taxation of
the American people, and yet we went beyond that by $1 trillion of
borrowed money; and, of course, of the nondomestic creditors, the
largest one is China. They hold a lot of our debt. They happen to be,
now, the second largest economy in the world at $9 trillion GDP.
We had about a $15 trillion GDP, but the thing that is so scary and
frightening about that is we owe $14 trillion. So our debt to GDP ratio
is approaching 100 percent. So, you know, when we stand up, Madam
Speaker, as we're doing right now and talk about this issue, we're
almost in panic, and we should be because we're right on the precipice,
right on the edge of becoming part of the PIGS acronym--Portugal,
Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain.
{time} 1440
And, you know, we point the finger at them. But goodness gracious,
it's like the Bible scripture that I'm sure the Representative from
Missouri probably knows by heart. But it goes something like, If you've
got a plank in your own eye, you shouldn't be pointing out the speck in
somebody else's. We've got a plank in our own eye. And this is why in
this 112th Congress, we have a huge challenge, don't we, my colleagues?
We have a huge challenge. We're up to it. We're up to it, and I hope
that we are going to be up to it on both sides of the aisle.
Mr. AKIN. So let's say that we get what you've been working for, and
let's just say by some great miracle that we were able to stop that
ObamaCare. Now that would save a whole, whole lot of money, wouldn't
it, in terms of--
Mr. GINGREY of Georgia. Well, reclaiming the time that the gentleman
yielded to me, Madam Speaker. Absolutely. The gentleman from
Washington, our esteemed colleague, a physician, Mr. McDermott was on
the floor a little earlier talking about, well, what we were trying to
do in repealing ObamaCare, or the formal recognition of that bill,
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
Mr. AKIN. I call it socialized medicine. That's easier, but go ahead.
Mr. GINGREY of Georgia. That's a lot easier, socialized medicine,
Madam Speaker; but that's essentially what it is. That is essentially
what the former majority party was pushing towards.
But the gentleman who spoke said, Well, it's a stunt. These
Republicans know they can't repeal ObamaCare. And, furthermore, even if
they did, it would be at a cost of $200 billion. And what I pointed out
to him, Madam Speaker, as he was leaving the floor was, You know,
that's really interesting. It's going to cost us $200 billion, if
that's accurate, to repeal while it cost us $1.1 trillion to enact. So
you can literally go broke saving money, can't you. And by golly, we're
going to repeal it because that's what the American people want.
If we fall short in our efforts, despite 110 percent on this side of
the aisle or, well, in this body and in the other body, then we have a
backup plan B. And I know my colleagues would like to talk about that.
So I will yield back to the gentleman from Missouri, and let's
continue the discussion.
Mr. AKIN. Well, I appreciate your medical expertise and your
overview. Obviously, if the Federal Government isn't jumping into
taking over all of health care, there is going to be a lot more in the
private sector. We will maybe get into that a little bit about what
really should the Federal Government be doing, and what should we allow
States to do, and what should we allow the free market economy to do.
It seems like the way things are working today, we've got Georgia
very well represented. And Congressman Tom Graves from Georgia has
joined us before on the floor. You always have an interesting and
articulate perspective. This is kind of a pet topic for a lot of us
that think that government isn't a servant anymore, but it's the
master. So if you say, Hey, let's start cutting government, that's kind
of an interesting topic. I would like you to join us, please, Tom.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. Well, I thank the gentleman from Missouri. And
you're right. I mean, today, what a breath of fresh air to hear the
syllables of the Constitution recited from Members all throughout this
body, leading into this topic and this discussion because we really
want to address
[[Page H76]]
spending cuts and the proper role of government. What better way to
start it than reciting the Constitution today. And hopefully Members of
this body listened and heard. They didn't get up and just read a
sentence or two or an amendment. They actually consumed it in their
mind and are starting to understand what it means. Because for too
long, the Federal Government has been kicking the can down the road on
spending. Saying, Oh, elect me; elect me, and we will cut spending.
When you look at the data, it's clear: deficit spending has occurred at
an average, just in the last fiscal year, of probably $110 billion a
month deficit spending.
Mr. AKIN. Oh, wait. And $110 billion a month. That used to be the
deficit in a whole year.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. Right.
Mr. AKIN. Wow, we are setting all kinds of records in the wrong
direction.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. You are right. And that leads up to this
discussion that we are hearing now in the media which I don't know
where they've been over the last several months talking about the debt
ceiling. Well, the reason we're approaching and about to pierce the
debt ceiling is this deficit spending that has occurred from the
previous leadership here in the House as well as the administration who
is still there.
And as we approach this debt ceiling, we have got to push spending
cuts more and more and more. And I'm thankful that I just was sworn in
for the second time yesterday--
Mr. AKIN. We're glad to have you back again, and we thank the good
people of Georgia for making a good decision there.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. Well, thank you. But being appointed to the
Appropriations Committee, it is clear, and I have made it clear to my
constituents, that I am not going on as a spender. I'm going on as a
saver. It seems for far too long Members would seek to be on
appropriations because they wanted to spend money. Well, guess what.
It's a new day, a new era. And it's a just fresh day when you have
Members going on to say, Here is how we are going to save money. So
what a great debate we are going to have in the next several weeks.
Mr. AKIN. That's good. Now, let's get on to this just a little bit
more. Let's try to get into the details in terms of procedurally. Okay,
now you've got a new Congress. Republicans are in the majority, and
we've got the problem. When you take a look at the numbers and we're
spending a third more than what we're taking in, we know we've got to
do some cutting. But yet one of the things that people want to pin us
down on, okay, you guys are such big mouths about cutting spending,
what are you not going to fund? Because there is going to be some group
that is going to get mad at you. So how are you going to it approach
it?
And one thing that I know in State governments they do sometimes is
they say, Well, what we've got to do is, we're 10 percent over budget,
so we need to cut 10 percent off of everything. That makes it seem to
be fair. And that would be one way you might approach what we've got
going on.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. Oh, you are absolutely right. I think what
we've heard about repealing ObamaCare--yesterday I introduced the
legislation again to defund it, to take away all authorizing funds
going to the legislation as well, which is another step forward. You
know, why don't we defund some czars. That's a whole other discussion
that we've all seen.
And then as we move back to those 2008 levels, and we might need to
go even just a little bit further and begin cutting more and more and
more, I mean, are the decisions going to be difficult? Sure, they are.
But that's why your constituents and mine elected us to come here and
make those tough decisions.
Mr. AKIN. Congressman Graves, let me lay out two ways you could
approach it. If you've got just a little bit you've got to cut, you
could maybe take a little bit from everything. But there's another way
you could take a look at it when you've got to cut one-third. One way
you could do it would be to say, What are the essential functions that
the Federal Government has to do, and what are things that we really
don't have to do because a State could do it or the private sector
could do it?
I yield to the Chair.
Swearing in of Members
The SPEAKER. If Representative Sessions of Texas and Representative
Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania would present themselves in the well.
Messrs. Sessions and Fitzpatrick appeared at the bar of the House,
and the Speaker administered the oath of office to them as follows:
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will support and defend the
Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and
domestic; that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;
that you take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or
purpose of evasion; and that you will well and faithfully discharge the
duties of the office on which you are about to enter, so help you God.
Congratulations. You are now officially Members.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Ms. Herrera Beutler). The gentleman from
Missouri may resume.
Mr. AKIN. So we were just talking about now you've got the situation
with the Federal Government spending a third more than it takes in. So
we've got to figure out some way of how we're going to skin this cat.
And one way is to just try to take a certain 10 percent or whatever
the percentage is. Actually, it would be 33 percent off of everything
or whatever. Or what you could say would be, what are the things that
we have to do, and what are the things that maybe are nice but we can't
afford it, and what are the things that may be actually
unconstitutional. And I suspect when you're one-third over budget, it's
going to be hard to just do a set percentage across the board. I
suspect we're going to get into, I think, some very interesting
questions about what's really constitutional and does the Federal
Government really have to do that function? Maybe it's an important
thing to get done, but maybe the Federal Government shouldn't do it. So
I just wondered if you wanted to jump in on that subject.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. Yes, I would be happy to just add a little bit
more to that.
I think a few approaches you could take when you ask the question, Is
it duplicative? Is it occurring somewhere else? Is another agency or
Department doing it? And that is after you've cleared the hurdle. Is it
a role of the Federal Government in general itself? Then you could also
ask, is it something you could devolve back to the States? Have we
usurped the States in which I would think many Members of our
conference here would probably agree. In some cases, the Federal
Government has overstepped its bounds, and it's time to remove
ourselves from the States and allow the States to take over.
But you know, from a business owner's perspective, what if you looked
at the Department heads or the agency heads, and you said, You go back
and you cut 25 percent and you bring back your recommendations; and
then you show us a budget estimate with 20 percent cuts and then one
with 10 percent, empower those agency heads to make those decisions, to
analyze their Departments and come back.
{time} 1450
While we're also on the theme of physicians, we're taking a surgical
approach as well as pulling out those unnecessary programs. So that
would be some approaches I would take.
Mr. AKIN. Well, those are some great recommendations here. To
reinforce what you've said, I didn't have time to get some of the
charts that we normally have printed, but here's some examples.
We've got 342 economic development programs. Do you think we really
need 342 of them? Talk about duplicative. That seems to make your
point.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. With unemployment at what?
Mr. AKIN. 10 percent or whatever. 130 programs serving the disabled.
Do we need 130? Maybe it would be better to consolidate, just do a
couple of good ones.
And then 130 programs serving at-risk youth. And so these are all of
these things where you say it doesn't even make common sense. We have
to really start getting into analyzing, first of all, should we even be
doing it, and then, if we should, do we need hundreds of programs doing
something that should be done with one or two.
[[Page H77]]
I see that Dr. Gingrey is back at it again. He just couldn't sit
still when we talk about cutting things. So just welcome to the
discussion.
Mr. GINGREY of Georgia. Madam Speaker, I appreciate the gentleman
yielding back to me. And I know we've got two other colleagues on the
floor that want to speak. I can only stay for a few more minutes
because of a prior engagement, so thank you for giving me an
opportunity kind of in front of the queue, if you will.
But I'll tell you, one of the things in regard to how you cut, is it
by picking and choosing, or in one fell swoop across the board?
You know, we just passed a bill, last vote of the day, in regard to
our own budgets. And that was a 5 percent across-the-board cut, Madam
Speaker, in our member representational account, our expense account
that we're allotted each year to pay the salaries of our staff members,
and to have a round trip flight back to our districts once a week. And
those budgets vary a little bit, depending on, obviously somebody from
California is going to have more travel expense than somebody like
myself and Representative Graves from Georgia. But we just basically
voted to cut 5 percent.
And I, quite honestly, and this question that has come up, Madam
Speaker, my colleagues talk about, well, how do you do it? I just think
we more and more need to look at this thing and say there are no sacred
cows. And let these Departments make their case for why maybe there
shouldn't be an across-the-board, 2 percent, 3 percent, 4 percent cut.
I know I voted in favor of that every time it comes up on these
appropriations bills. We didn't get to vote on any in the 111th
Congress because our Democratic colleagues didn't get their work done.
But this is something we need to really look at carefully.
I know that most people, Madam Speaker, are reluctant to talk about
cutting Homeland Security and cutting national defense, particularly
when we have two wars going on and certainly not wanting to cut the
veterans benefits. But there's waste, fraud and abuse and duplication
of things across every spectrum of this Federal Government. If we're
going to get serious about it, we need to have an adult conversation.
And, Madam Speaker and my colleagues, that includes entitlements as
well, because if we don't address entitlements, we're looking at one-
sixth of the budget; and we're never going to get there just addressing
that small portion of the budget.
With that, I yield back and continue to listen to my colleagues.
Mr. AKIN. Hey, Doctor, it's a treat to have you on the floor. And I'm
going to run over to, moving a little bit from Georgia to the West, to
the great State of Utah, and Congressman Bishop, you've joined us on
the floor a number of times. And one of the questions that--let's say
that you were on the Budget Committee or something, and you're trying
to prioritize, how are you going to--guns and butter, how are you going
to prioritize defense versus endowment for the arts or whatever it is?
How do we crack this nut about trying to reduce Federal spending? I
would appreciate your perspective.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. Let me try and hit, for just one moment, two
potential areas to address that particular question, and it goes back
to the fact that we did read the Constitution on the floor today.
You know it's amazing, as P.J. O'Rourke once said, that the
Constitution is 16 pages, which is the operator's manual for 300
million people. The operator's manual for the Toyota Camry, in
contrast, is four times as large, and it only seats five.
But you also contrast that with what we have done in the lame duck
session when the Senate's omnibus spending bill, it's not 16 pages, it
was 1,924 pages. Those are the kinds of issues we're talking about. And
I think if we really want an answer of how we make those decisions, we
go back to the document that was read this morning.
The general welfare clause today usually puts the emphasis on the
word ``welfare.'' When they wrote that thing, they put the emphasis on
the word ``general.'' What the Federal Government should do is that
which affects all of us.
Monroe, Madison, Jackson vetoed road projects because they said those
road projects didn't meet the general welfare. When Savannah burned to
the ground, Congress had a great deal of empathy for Savannah, but it
did not actually appropriate any money for Savannah because they said
giving money to Savannah to rebuild would simply help Savannah and was
not general welfare.
Now, I made this speech once on the floor a couple of years ago, and
I got a nice letter, kind of, from a lady in Alabama who took me to
task and listed all the programs that she thought were viable and good
and she wanted continued. And I said, ma'am, you actually missed the
ultimate point. The point is not should these programs be available for
citizens. The point is, who should be responsible for providing those
programs?
Not every idea has to germinate, be funded, be appropriated, be
regulated from Washington. The States are equally competent. And if,
indeed, we divided our responsibilities together, we could provide
better services for the people for a cheaper price.
Now, Mr. Akin, if I could just give one second of a simple example.
David Walker has written a great book called ``The Rebirth of
Federalism,'' where he simply made the effect that dangling money we
don't have in front of cash-starved States does not necessarily help
out the States or us, or the taxpayers who have to foot the bill for
both levels of government.
For example, he said when we put conditional grants to States with
strings attached that eventually become regulations and mandates, it
undercuts both the inter-level cooperation between those two bodies,
and it is a term he invented called ``creeping conditionalism,'' which
means the cost to the taxpayer actually increases.
By doing his estimates, the Safe Drinking Water Act of 1986 cost the
States $2 billion to $3 billion more than the States would have spent
to provide their own safe drinking water. From '83 to '90 he estimated
that the regulations imposed by the Federal Government was $9 billion
to $13 billion more in local taxes that did not provide a benefit to
the citizens. It was just the creeping cost to them.
So our mandates, supposedly with free money given to States, end up
costing the taxpayer not only for the free money we don't have, but
costs the States to do more than they would have done or needed to do
to actually address the problem.
Mr. AKIN. To meet the mandates. You know, interestingly, and I can't
help but piggy back just a little bit on your point, gentleman, it used
to be a very boring place to be a Congressman down here because there
were almost no laws on the books. Do you know the Federal laws, to
begin with, in terms of laws about right and wrong, were, one of them
was a law against piracy on the high seas. Another one was against
counterfeiting. Another one was a law against espionage. Those three
laws were the main laws on the books federally. And what did they have
in common? Well, just exactly your point. Piracy, counterfeiting and
espionage against our country were against the general welfare. They
were laws that affected everything. So laws against murder and rape and
stealing and all that kind of stuff were all State laws because the
States made all those laws. So you had a very limited jurisdiction
federally.
And now, as you say, we've got all of these different sorts of
creeping red tape which keep costing. In an insidious way, everybody's
cost of living keeps slipping up, but you don't really know why, who's
nibbling all the money out of your wallet. But it's because of a lot of
those things that you're talking about. And I appreciate that
perspective you shared with us.
I promised my good friend from Louisiana, Congressman Scalise, he has
become, this last year or two, an expert on oil rigs and oil spills and
everything, but good on many other topics as well. And when we start
talking about government, I've got to let you have a piece of the
action, my friend.
{time} 1500
Mr. SCALISE. I want to thank my friend from up the Mississippi River
in Missouri, Madam Speaker, for yielding to me and talking about this
important issue, because there seems to be a lot of energy as we are
talking about energy in this House.
I think yesterday was so exciting to see not only the gavel
ceremoniously
[[Page H78]]
passed from Nancy Pelosi to now Speaker Boehner, but also that these
principles that are in the Constitution be restored to the people.
This is the people's House, and it should operate as the people's
House. And I think now it's starting to get back to those principles
that we articulated today when we read the Constitution, a real
uplifting experience. It is sad, unfortunately, to note as we look
through history that this was the first time that the entire U.S.
Constitution was read on the House floor. I think this should be an
event that occurs every new Congress so that we reestablish and remind
ourselves just what we are up here to uphold.
As we talk about the spending issues of the country, I think one area
that shows you where spending has gotten out of control is, if you go
to the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, as I know my friend from
Utah is such a proud proponent: ``The powers not delegated to the
United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States,
are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.''
And yet, if you look, so many of the things that we are doing up here
in Washington, that this Federal Government has gotten so expansive in
doing, have absolutely nothing to do with powers that were delegated in
the Constitution.
In fact, one of the big debates we are going to have here this week,
our first week here under this new Congress, is about this government
takeover of health care that a Federal court just ruled is not
constitutional. The Federal Government, under Federal court ruling now,
does not have the authority to mandate that American citizens have to
buy a private product as a condition of citizenship.
So I think the fact that not only today did we put our money where
our mouths are by voting to cut our own budgets, because as we are
talking about cutting all throughout government where there is
duplication, where there are departments that shouldn't even exist,
these czars, these 30 or so shadow government figures that are running
their own, almost, cabinets, like a secret cabinet that is running out
there, and every one of them has multimillion dollar budgets and
staffs, and they are not accountable to anybody except the President--
not to the people, not to the Senate, that the Constitution says they
should be doing. We are going to be going and looking at all of those
areas to make serious cuts.
But then we also have to look--and of course tomorrow we will be
voting on the start of the process--to repeal ObamaCare and do what the
courts have already said--this isn't constitutional; it shouldn't be on
the books--and get rid of that constitutional mandate with all the bad
taxes and other things that go with it.
But then we have got to look at creating jobs. And I think that's
where you get into an area where, while we are cutting spending, which
we need to do aggressively, we also need to unleash the potential of
the individual.
It is not government here in Washington that makes this a great
country, and really the greatest country in the history of the world.
It's the power of our people back home--the small business owner, the
stay-at-home mom who is raising a family--the people that actually make
this country work. And there is no place I don't think any more evident
of what is wrong with Washington and hurting that opportunity than in
my home State where you have got this permitorium going on since after
the BP disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. It's the President's policies,
not the actions and failures of BP. It's the President's policies that,
according to the White House, have put 12,000 people out of work
through what is called a permitorium.
The government has said all of the companies that didn't do anything
wrong, the companies that played by the rules, that follow all the best
safety guidelines in the world and had no problems, now the government
has shut them down, put them out of work, and they are not even issuing
permits.
Mr. AKIN. I can't help but just jump in a little bit.
It just keeps coming back to my mind, as you talk about the
particular situation of the job-killing mandates that are coming from
the administration, I keep thinking an awful lot of Americans must be
starting to feel the same way I do: that the government is not a
servant anymore; that it's a fearful master.
We were warned by the forefathers that if you let your government,
your Federal Government get out of control, it will become a fearful
master. It seems to me that that's kind of what is starting to happen.
And I think the last election was an understanding across the whole
country that this government needs to be put back in its proper place,
being a servant of the people and doing programs that are
constitutional instead of things that people just think of, wow, it
would be a great idea if we mandate this or mandate that.
And here you have an example of an area that's already had a tough
hit from the oil spill, and we are going to take businesses that have
done nothing wrong and we're going to basically shut them down because
of some mandate. Somehow or another, I just don't see that as being
government of the servant. Do you?
Mr. SCALISE. In fact, it's exactly the opposite of the government
being the servant. It's the government being the oppressor. And as I
mentioned, 12,000 jobs have already been lost in south Louisiana alone.
And these aren't my numbers; this is the White House. And the White
House and the President's response to that was, well, they could just
go get unemployment.
These aren't people who want to get on unemployment rolls. They are
hardworking people who love and have a great, strong work ethic. They
want to be contributing to America's energy security. But it's this
administration that has shut them down and not allowed them to go back
to work drilling safely.
And I'm not talking about BP. I'm talking about the companies who
have played by the rules all along, who have never had any safety
problems because they follow a higher standard. They are the ones that
have been shut down and put out of work.
And not only is it affecting Louisiana in terms of the 12,000 jobs;
it has now affected America's energy security, because right now,
nationally, this is a time, once you get out of the summer, where gas
prices typically start falling again. But what are we seeing? We are
seeing the opposite of that. Now gas prices are breaking over the $3-a-
gallon mark in many States because, in part, this administration has
changed our energy policies where we have shut off more areas of energy
production in America, which means these Middle Eastern countries, many
of whom don't like us, other foreign countries are now producing the
energy that we need, which reverses our trade balance. It sends
billions of dollars and thousands of jobs to foreign countries out of
America, and then it makes our country less secure, which is why we are
approaching $100-a-barrel gasoline now, because the Americans have
basically said through President Obama's policies: We are going to shut
off most of our sources of known energy. But, of course, our demand for
energy hasn't dropped in the country, so that means we are now going to
have to be more reliant on many of these foreign countries who don't
like us.
So it has not only devastating consequences in terms of 12,000 lost
jobs in south Louisiana, but also devastating effects on America's
energy security which now we are seeing reflected in these gas prices
that are now breaking $3 a gallon.
Mr. AKIN. Congressman, you have talked about Louisiana, and I
appreciate that perspective, and that's the specifics.
If we sort of back up a little bit from what you have said and take a
look, and the subject here that we are talking about today is cutting
government. If you take a look at the Department of Energy, the
Department of Energy was founded years and years ago with the purpose
of making sure that we were not dependent on foreign oil.
Now, that department has grown with more and more and more buildings
and bureaucrats and people in it I'm sure with well-meaning intention.
But as the Department has grown, we have become more dependent on
foreign oil. Now, there is something in that equation that's
fundamentally nuts, so we have to take a really good look at this
subject.
I am interested, too, and sometimes I point out to my constituents, I
think
[[Page H79]]
people don't understand this, but our opinions in this Chamber are
pretty divided. If I were to say to some of my constituents that there
is a big difference between Republicans and Democrats on the abortion
issue, they would go, Gee, whiz, no big surprise. But they may be
surprised to know that if you look at voting records, there is a bigger
difference on development of American energy between Republicans and
Democrats than there is on the abortion issue. So there is a difference
of opinion as to whether or not we need to become energy independent in
this country.
And I'm glad you've got the common sense to say we need to be energy
independent; we need to develop all of our resources for energy. And
the fact that you have taken a strong stand on that, Steve, I think you
are doing a great job for Louisiana, and it's a treat to have you
joining us here today and bringing that expertise.
I am going to run back over to Georgia in a little bit and jump over
here to Representative Graves. Jump in, please.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. Well, thank you for yielding some time. And,
Madam Speaker, this should be the final few minutes of my discussion as
I am going to leave and yield to the gentleman from Utah. I sort of
want to follow up on what he said. But before I do, I want to point out
that the Republican Study Committee, which I believe all of us are
members of and actively a part of, is putting together a rescissions
plan which has $2.6 trillion in cuts identified already that would
occur over the next 10 years and an amazing set of proposals that, to
me, as we stand here today in the majority, John Boehner as our Speaker
that we nominated, we elected, and we are still talking about spending
being the number one issue. That's how committed we are.
Going back to the gentleman's statement, he was referring to the
Constitution and the general welfare clause in the Preamble there. I
thought I would bring up an interesting point, because it says to
``promote the general welfare,'' not ``provide the general welfare.''
An interesting distinction there. And what a notion we have taken from
a central government role to want to provide for everyone.
But if you go one clause prior to that, it says, ``provide for the
common defense.'' Not ``promote,'' but ``provide'' common defense and
``promote'' general welfare. Two distinct differences and clauses. And
we have certainly mistaken that second clause there.
{time} 1510
Mr. AKIN. That is such a good point. I don't think it does any harm
to repeat that. Let's go back to it again. We are talking about the
preamble to the U.S. Constitution, it sets the whole framework for what
this country rests on, and you've got two words that are loaded with
meaning. The first one is the general defense. That's national
security. The general defense is general. It's security for every
State, for every American, rich or poor, black or white, male or
female. When Americans are secure, Americans are secure; and we use
Federal money to do something that is general. And it's not to
encourage it; it's to provide for that defense.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. Clearly the word is provide for common
defense.
The next phrase or clause is then promote general welfare. Not
provide. Promote the general welfare.
Mr. AKIN. Now I think there were Federalist papers that were written
to help make that point and to define the fact that to promote general
welfare is not a clause big enough to run tanks through and say that
anything that seems like a nice thing to do for somebody is
constitutional.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. You're right. I will wrap up with this, two
quotes from two very different Presidents. Ronald Reagan once said:
``Revenue is not the problem; spending is the problem.'' We all know
that. But then another quote is this: ``Increasing America's debt
weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means the buck
stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices
today onto the backs of our children and our grandchildren. America has
a debt problem and a failure of leadership.''
Mr. AKIN. Now who was it who said that? Was that Ronald Reagan?
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. ``Americans deserve better.'' End quote. That
was then-Senator Barack Obama on the Senate floor.
Mr. AKIN. So there's a big difference between Senate and Presidency
apparently.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. A big difference.
But he is absolutely correct that America has a debt problem and a
failure of leadership. Mr. President, here is your opportunity.
Mr. AKIN. And the interesting thing is that if you take George Bush's
biggest deficit year, which was when Speaker Pelosi was here in
Congress, 2009, his biggest deficit was one-third of the first Obama,
which was $1.4 trillion. So what is the connection between the quote
and the action? I think what we need to do is to take a very, very good
look at what really is constitutional.
Mr. GRAVES of Georgia. I think the connection is in his quote--a
failure of leadership.
Mr. AKIN. A failure of leadership. His own words.
Thank you, Congressman. It has been a treat to have you joining us
here this afternoon.
I want to run back over to Utah to my good friend, Congressman
Bishop.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. Thank you.
I do appreciate the Congressman from Georgia talking about the
difference between ``provide'' and ``promote.''
Let me just go with one historical example of how that works, because
I think in one of your earlier questions it was said, How are we
actually going to handle this spending problem? Part of it is we have
to think outside the box and make some things that have been common
assumptions not necessarily have to survive.
And instead of going with some issues that we're funding right now,
which may be too close to people, let me just go back to history. In
most of the history books that I do, that I have seen, when we taught
high school history, they always talk about how this nation came
together with the uniting of the railroads, the UP and the Central
Pacific joining together and how the Federal Government subsidized that
process and was the only viable way of getting that done. We provided
the railroad system.
One of the concepts, though, as I was reading another book that took
a closer look on this issue is that not only did the Federal Government
help with this railroad building craze but the idea that the Federal
Government became involved changed the mechanism in which railroads
were built and the kinds of ways they were built.
We paid railroads for every mile of track that was laid, which meant
you gave them more money if they went to a mountainous route than on
flat land. So many of those routes took a very circuitous route going
through some elevated terrain because they got more money than if they
had just taken a simpler flat route. One of the, I won't mention which
one but they refused to put up masonry supports. They put up wooden
culverts only for their train tracks. In the winter they laid track
over ice which meant as soon as the thaw came, the tracks disappeared.
Much of our railway system had to be rebuilt within 2 years of its
actual completion.
I live in the State of Utah and my only national monument is the
Golden Spike National Monument in my district in which both the Union
Pacific and the Central Pacific came and they passed one another
continuing to lay track because they were paid for it by the Federal
Government, until Congress finally told them not to track off and link
up somewhere; and they picked Promontory Summit which is in the State
of Utah in my county to finally link up.
Ironically enough, in 1893 James Hill built--maybe the Madam Speaker
has the name of this railroad--Northern Railroad that went from Chicago
to Seattle. He did that without any government subsidies whatsoever. He
paid private property for renting his lines even during the panic. It
survived. It was functional. It was profitable.
Sometimes we make assumptions that only the Federal Government has
the ability of doing things when in reality we don't. And we forget
that once again if we were to make States a true partner with us in
projects, States
[[Page H80]]
have the ability of being creative, much more than we do; they have the
ability of providing justice for its circumstances much more than we
do; and more importantly if the States make a mistake, it doesn't harm
the entire country. I think ObamaCare may be one of those particular
examples, where State creativity was going on a proper road with some
wonderful ideas that were stopped dead in their tracks, no pun
intended, by ObamaCare.
Mr. AKIN. It is interesting that you talk about, there was a great
little short book, and I don't remember the title of it, gentleman,
that came out with some of the very facts that you just mentioned, and
it was a study of how the government in the 1800s got involved in the
six major industries in America because the assumption was that the
Federal Government has to get involved in these big industries to make
us competitive in an industrial world. They got involved in the oil
industry, the steamship industry, the steel industry; of course the
railroad industry.
The example you're talking about, again the government created this
incentive that you're paid by the mile. So among other things they did,
they used cheap steel rails which wore out right away and wooden ties
that were not treated, and also they wouldn't blast which was expensive
to go up a steep grade but they would make these long grades back and
forth. The result was the company that used all the government money
had a rail line that you couldn't maintain it. And, as you said, the
northern route was done totally with private money. They had to scrimp
and borrow. They built a little piece at a time. At the end of what
they could built, they would form a little town and they would give
them free shipping to encourage the trade and they built the railroad
in pieces that way using the cash that they had. And that, like the
other industries, the steamship, steel and the oil industries, the same
pattern occurred where the Federal Government got involved, the
businesses that were using Federal money all went bankrupt.
So there was an example where again you think the government's got to
get involved. The answer was every time the government got involved,
the companies went bankrupt. That's a good principle.
Let's get over, though, to take a look at this big picture of how in
the world do we deal with the budget. One of the big things that
everybody has been taking a look at, and I know you know this,
gentleman, and that is that we have this new category that are called
entitlements. That is, we passed some law; the law then runs like a
machine and spits out money to people. If you get enough of those
machines going spending money, pretty soon you've spent a lot of money.
We've gotten to the point now where Medicare and Medicaid, Social
Security, are spending almost half of the revenue that the government
is taking in.
So when you deal with that, as we take a look at overspending, people
have projected that if you let Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid
continue as they are, there will come a time when there will be no
money for anything else in the budget at all. These are some of the
hard choices that we have to face.
It seems to me, gentleman, as we have made an emphasis on the
Constitution; in fact, in the rules package that was passed yesterday,
we have created a new mandate that every bill that comes to this floor
has to have a constitutional justification. I think that's the start of
where we really have to get at this problem, and that is, what really
is the job of the Federal Government and can we afford to be all things
to all people.
I just wanted to let you piggyback on that.
{time} 1520
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. I appreciate that very well, because, to be very
honest, this is not an easy task which this Congress faces. We have
spent probably eight or nine decades digging the hole which we are in.
To think that there is a simple way of getting out of it is naive. To
think that in one year we could get out of this is maybe also naive. We
have to think in terms of moving forward in a general direction that
would go there.
I am very proud that the rules that were passed yesterday will enable
this body, if we decide to do it, to take the time to think outside the
box with new ideas. The idea that for the first time since the 1960s we
have set aside a specific time during the day so that the committees
could function will allow every Member on this floor to sit and work in
a committee to come up with ideas to reach this goal of how we can
control or at least limit the runaway spending that we have had.
Mr. AKIN. I need to stop and interrupt just a minute here, because
you will never say this, but, Congressman Bishop, you were one of the
main people that helped put that rule in place and I think the whole
country needs to say a big ``thank you'' to you, because what you are
doing is trying to make Congress just a little more efficient and do a
few commonsense things.
A lot of people might not say this thinking outside the box, but the
box is small down here sometimes, and you have provided us with the
idea that we are actually going to get into some of these questions and
we are going to approach them in a systematic kind of way. We are going
to take time and not have votes running all day long so people can't
focus on their work, and say now, systematically, what do we have to do
to deal this problem?
I congratulate you on the first step, and also the rules package that
says you have got to have a constitutional justification for everything
you bring to the floor. I think we are starting on the right spot.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. You make me embarrassed right here. I wish I
could take full credit for the time management plans that we are
implementing here. I may have said it, but somebody else had to make
the decision to go forward with it. I think it was the right thing to
do because it requires us, instead of running around in circles like a
bunch of squirrels on a treadmill or chipmunks on a treadmill wasting a
lot of time, we try to focus our energies so that when we are on the
floor it makes some kind of difference.
Let me just give one other historical example of what I think we need
to be doing and dedicate ourselves, since I have been throwing out too
many already.
I believe it was in the first Congress that the issue came up of
postal roads, where to draw the line, where would the postal roads for
the new Post Office go. There is some kind of economic benefit of
having actually mail dropped along a route.
But Congress, eager to get out, said let's just allow the President,
the executive branch, to decide where the postal routes will be, which
seems to be a logical thing to do. And I believe it was Congressman
Paige, I hope from Virginia, who stood up and said, no, our job of
Congress is to legislate, which includes taking the time to agree on
where those postal routes will go. It is not our responsibility to give
it to an executive branch or a bureaucracy or some other group to come
up with all the details. And he forced Congress to stay there, and they
did their job.
Too often we as Members simply have the tendency of coming up with a
grand and noble idea, and they say all right, we will empower. I think
the language in the TARP bill is a perfect example of where we
empowered the Secretary of the Treasury to make all kinds of decisions
which were legislative decisions by their very nature.
Well, I hope what this schedule allows us to do and what you were
talking about is to say we have a great deal of work to be done here.
We are still looking at ideas. I am sure there are great ideas that are
out there that will be coming from the people as time goes on, but we
have to make sure we dedicate the time to not simply running around in
circles playing silly games, but coming here and zeroing in on our
task.
It was said by you, it was said by the gentleman from Georgia as well
as the gentleman from Louisiana, it is the spending. That is our
problem. That is what is hurting jobs, that is what is hurting
Americans, that is what is bloating our budget. We need to zero in on
that, and until we do that, we will never come close to meeting what
the American people expect the Congress to do, nor what we really
morally need to do.
I yield back to the gentleman.
Mr. AKIN. Well, I think that Ronald Reagan, you know, he had a way of
[[Page H81]]
putting complicated things in simple words. He said we are buying more
government than we can afford. That is not a bad summary of the
situation. And it hasn't gotten better since Ronald Reagan was here--we
are buying more government than we can afford.
I appreciate your historic examples. Of course, there is no way
Congress can do the example of the postal roads that you made out when
we are trying to basically do everything under the sun, be all things
to all people. We are going to have to make some decisions saying this
is a nice thing to do, but it could be done by a State government or it
could be done by the private sector.
We are going to have to make some of those choices and just say,
look, there are some things that the private sector and the States
cannot do and we better fund that first. Certainly, providing for the
common defense is one that has to be up at the front end, because the
other governments can't do that, and the individual citizens can't do
that. Whereas when it comes to some of the other kinds of things, such
as in the energy areas or education or insurance or a lot of those
things, they could be done by other governments.
When we start to get into this, hey, let's start to do something that
feels good about this subject and turn it over to a bunch of
administration bureaucrats, we have really lost control of where we
are, and I appreciate your bringing us back to ground zero.
Now, there have been some shifts. Here is one that is kind of
interesting, and it is the tradeoff. They always talk about the
tradeoff between guns and butter, between defense and basically welfare
programs.
If you go back to 1965, the entitlement spending was 2.5 percent of
GDP of the overall budget, 2.5 percent in 1965 was entitlement. Defense
was 7.4 percent. Now we have shifted to 2010, the estimate is 4.9
percent is national defense. We have gone from 7.4 down to 4.9 percent,
while entitlements has gone from 2.5 percent to 9.9 percent in
entitlements.
That is getting to that area where if the entitlements continue to
climb, if you just look at demographics, there will be no money for
defense or anything else and the budget will be dominated by just
simply Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
So we are going to have to ask ourselves what are the top priorities.
We are going to have to fund those and do a good job at those. That is
what I was getting at. I don't think we can have the mentality of just
saying we are going to take 10 percent out of everything or 30 percent
out of everything. I think we are going to have to make some decisions.
Some we may not want to cut, we just want to make them more efficient
and leave that amount of money in it, and other ones we may say it is
not a matter of cutting it, we don't even need the thing at all. Let's
just get rid of that entire functional area. That is where we have to
be going.
But, again, where we started today is the right place, with the U.S.
Constitution, and making the key distinctions that the Constitution
makes so clear. There is a difference for providing for defense and
then basically encouraging general welfare.
I appreciate your very specific historic examples. If you remember
the name of the book, there was a book, I don't know if it was the same
one you were quoting from, but it had examples of those six industries.
All of them where the government was in subsidizing the corporations,
there was all kinds of corruption and the companies all failed, and the
ones that stayed away from government funding were the ones that stayed
in business. Just a fascinating study.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. If I could just add one comment to that as well.
I think it is very clear that we need to say it is not that the Federal
Government will always be bad and is incompetent at doing things. The
problem the Federal Government has is the size of the Federal
Government.
Any big industry has waste, fraud, and abuse, and that is one of the
reasons why if we could coordinate and work with local governments--
that is why the old cliche that the government that is best is the one
that is closest to the people. It is not necessarily that they are
smarter or better; it is because they don't have the problem of size in
a one-size-fits-all issue and they have the freedom to be creative.
As you were talking about, especially with the entitlements, this is
an area in which creativity is going to be the most important element.
And some things, especially with the cost of Medicare, are driven by
one-size-fits-all Federal mandates and Federal decisions, when allowing
creativity could help us solve this problem.
I also want to say one other thing too when your comment about the
general defense is so significant. It is not because we are funding for
the defense of the America today. The decisions we make, the plans we
make for defense today will not come to fruition for another 10 to 15
years, and indeed, the ability for us to have diplomacy in the future
depends on wise decisions that we make today.
I appreciate the gentleman from Missouri coming with this issue. This
is something that the people care about, something that the Congress
cares about. I think the fact that we just passed a 5 percent cut on
ourselves with overwhelming bipartisan support says that this is the
direction we should be taking, and we should continue to talk about
this over and over and over again. I appreciate you allowing me to be
part of this.
{time} 1530
Mr. AKIN. It's just a treat, Congressman Bishop, to have you here
with us today talking about a very important subject, something that is
on the front of the minds, I think, of many Americans, understanding
that we are buying way too much government than we can afford.
Certainly, the guiding compass and the guiding light for us has got to
be the U.S. Constitution. And the fact is that we had hundreds of years
of history, or at least a hundred of years of history, where the
Constitution has stood us in very good stead. And when we get away from
our foundational documents and principles, that's when we really start
to get into trouble.
The principle on defense that was just made--I have to underscore,
I'm on the Armed Services Committee. We deal with defense issues day in
and day out. And the problem in defense is that the things that are on
the drawing board today won't be fielded for probably 10 years in the
future. So decisions that we're making today are going to have their
effect a long way out. And that's why we have to be particularly
careful. The situation in defense is one that, as you take a look
around the world, we are rapidly being challenged by China and Russia,
and we are not keeping up in those arms situations where we do not have
the capability diplomatically to have options that were otherwise
available before when we had put enough funding into defense.
And so as we see entitlements increasing way, way, way up and defense
being cut down as a percentage of GDP, we are risking not doing the
most fundamental principle in the preamble of the U.S. Constitution,
which is providing for the national defense. And our objective, of
course, is not parity. We're not trying to be equal with other nations.
Our objective is to be overwhelmingly superior. That's why we don't
have wars, because of the fact that people say, We don't want to take
on the United States. And it's why we can be a great Nation of
peacekeeping, because of the fact that we have been strong and
successful and set a good example for other nations.
So what we have before us is a very difficult question. It is the
question of politics in America. If you take a look at all of the
fights, the debates, the discussions that go on in politics in America,
most of it revolves around this question, and that is: What should the
Federal Government be doing? Should it be spending more or less? Should
it be doing that at all? Or, are we doing a good enough job? That's
what the discussion and debate is about. And until we get back to the
Constitution, until we start asking the question, ``Is it necessary for
the Federal Government to do this function?'' we will never solve this
problem of overspending.
The current Congress--and this is my opinion, but one that I think
other Congressmen that I have discussed this with share, and that is we
have another problem, and that is the House and the Congress is a
product of a lot of time. There are various fiefdoms and ways that we
have gotten accustomed to doing things which may not be very logical or
practical.
[[Page H82]]
I've been here 10 years. I have learned about authorization and
appropriations and about the Budget Committee and the way we do things.
But if we're going to seriously get at this problem, other than shaving
a few percent here or there, if we're going to seriously get at the
problem of having to radically reduce our appetite for spending, it's
going to require changes in the structure of this Congress. And that
will be one of the things that you can see we've already started on and
are continuing and pledging to continue to do--to take a look at our
rules and how the organization is set up so that we can make those hard
choices and decisions.
There has been a commitment that those decisions will be made in a
transparent way; in a way that everybody who is elected to be a
Congressman, so that every district in this country will have somebody
that can stand up and have an opportunity to weigh in and have an
opinion. You won't see, as we had in the last Congress, bills that are
being written in the Speaker's office and brought to the floor and
rammed through in the dead of night. You're going to hear open debate,
a lot of discussion, and a lot of ideas being discussed. I think that's
a good thing and a proper thing. But, ultimately, we have to deal with
the question: What are the essential functions that must happen in
Federal Government?
Now, I've just heard that there are going to be some very significant
cuts in defense. That's very concerning to me. Why would we be taking
the Defense Department and doing major cuts there and no other
department in government is being looked at? This is something that
some of us will probably react to some because we believe we have to
control spending, but why do you single out the Department of Defense?
We're fighting two wars. Why are you going to whack that budget when
you have all these other budgets that have never been touched
whatsoever? And so we have to take a look at those percentages. When
you see entitlements going very, very high, defense budget going low,
that signals that we've got to be careful about the choices we're
making, because the choices we make today, 10 years from now, your sons
or daughters or my grandsons and my granddaughters may be affected by
those choices.
So we start out a new Congress, I think, on the right foot. Emphasis
on the U.S. Constitution; emphasis on the fact that we have to be
responsible; emphasis on the fact that everybody in every congressional
district is going to have a piece of the action; and the fact that
we're going to have to be responsible, we're going to have to be
cutting Federal spending. You cannot run, as we have in the first 2
years of the Obama administration, with $1.4 trillion deficit. And that
will stop.
____________________