[Congressional Record Volume 156, Number 111 (Tuesday, July 27, 2010)]
[House]
[Pages H6106-H6112]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
PROVIDING FOR CONSIDERATION OF HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 301,
PAKISTAN WAR POWERS RESOLUTION
Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. Speaker, by direction of the Committee on Rules, I
call up House Resolution 1556 and ask for its immediate consideration.
The Clerk read the resolution, as follows:
H. Res. 1556
Resolved, That upon the adoption of this resolution it
shall be in order without intervention of any point of order
to consider in the House the concurrent resolution (H. Con.
Res. 301) directing the President, pursuant to section 5(c)
of the War Powers Resolution, to remove the United States
Armed Forces from Pakistan, if called up by Representative
Kucinich of Ohio or his designee. The concurrent resolution
shall be considered as read. The concurrent resolution shall
be debatable for one hour, with 30 minutes controlled by
Representative Kucinich of Ohio or his designee and 30
minutes equally divided and controlled by the chair and
ranking minority member of the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
The previous question shall be considered as ordered on the
concurrent resolution to final adoption without intervening
motion.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Massachusetts is
recognized for 1 hour.
Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. Speaker, for the purpose of debate only, I yield
the customary 30 minutes to the gentleman from California (Mr. Dreier).
All time yielded during consideration of the rule is for debate only.
General Leave
Mr. McGOVERN. I ask unanimous consent that all Members be given 5
legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks on House
Resolution 1556.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the
gentleman from Massachusetts?
There was no objection.
Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, House Resolution 1556 provides for the consideration of
H. Con. Res. 301, directing the President, pursuant to section 5(c) of
the War Powers Resolution to remove the United States Armed Forces from
Pakistan. The rule provides 1 hour of general debate in the House, with
30 minutes controlled by Representative Kucinich and 30 minutes
controlled by the Committee on Foreign Affairs. The rule waives all
points of order against consideration of the concurrent resolution, and
provides that the concurrent resolution shall be considered as read.
Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the gentleman from Ohio for pressing for
greater scrutiny on our involvement in Pakistan. By introducing this
resolution, Representative Kucinich triggered an expedited process for
consideration that can be modified only by a special rule. This is why
we are doing this concurrent resolution today.
I'm sure my good friends on the other side of the aisle will remember
that this is the exact same process used in 1998 and 1999, when the
House Republican majority introduced resolutions to withdraw U.S.
troops from Bosnia and the Republic of Yugoslavia while our American
men and women were stationed in those countries.
As Democrats, we welcome a vigorous debate on this resolution. Just
like the debates we have had over U.S. policy and military operations
in Iraq and Afghanistan, and countless other places around the world,
debate has never jeopardized the safety of our troops in the field.
American troops are never endangered by Congress doing its job, looking
closely at and debating the merits of where we send our troops and the
price they might pay for our putting them in harm's way.
There are many reasons, Mr. Speaker, why we should have a broader
debate about U.S. military involvement in Pakistan. Over the past 9
years, the United States has provided $18.6 billion to Pakistan, with
about $12.5 billion of that in security-related aid. The administration
has asked for $3 billion for fiscal year 2011, with over half of those
funds going to security assistance.
There are currently about 120 U.S. military trainers, mainly Special
Operations personnel, in Pakistan according to a July 11 New York Times
article. Pakistan has set that cap on the number of U.S. military
personnel, although other statements from the Defense Department
indicate that the number of total U.S. military personnel may be as
high as 200.
The New York Times also reported on July 13 that the Pakistan
intelligence agency exerts great sway over the Afghan Taliban and a
wide range of other militant groups that operate from inside Pakistan.
Yesterday's revelations in the documents published by WikiLeaks echoed
these disturbing conclusions.
There have been a rising number of terrorist plots in the United
States with links to militant groups in Pakistan, most recently the
failed car bombing in Times Square. A recent study by the Rand
Corporation concluded that this might be due in part to continued
support by Pakistani leaders for these groups so that Pakistan may
continue to influence events in Afghanistan, as well as a U.S.-Pakistan
counterinsurgency effort that has not yet proven to be effective, and
fails to protect the local population.
In addition, Mr. Speaker, there is Pakistan's continuing development
of nuclear weapons and purchase of nuclear reactors from China.
Having said all this, at the same time there are many things the U.S.
is doing right in Pakistan: supporting the strengthening of democratic
institutions; providing substantial support for primary, middle,
technical, and higher education; supporting agricultural development;
and providing substantial aid for populations displaced by violence.
Mr. Speaker, I support the privilege of the gentleman from Ohio to
bring
[[Page H6107]]
this matter before the House and present his arguments on the need to
remove all U.S. military personnel from Pakistan.
I reserve the balance of my time.
{time} 1450
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
(Mr. DREIER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, let me begin by expressing my appreciation
to my very good friend from Worcester for yielding me the customary 30
minutes.
Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely no question whatsoever that Pakistan
is ground zero in our struggle against violent extremism. The porous
border with Afghanistan allowed the Taliban to retreat into Pakistan,
regroup, and launch new offenses against our troops. Homegrown
insurgents within Pakistan have perpetrated countless attacks killing
thousands, including targeting their attacks against our fellow
Americans.
And recent news reports that we've just had over this past weekend
have only underscored how critically important it is that civilian
control--again, Mr. Speaker, civilian control--of the Pakistani
military and intelligence services is fully exercised. Again, these
reports that we've had just this past weekend underscore the fact that
we cannot entrust, we cannot see these other entities within the ISI
empowered without having civilian oversight within that structure of
democracy that they have.
Mr. Speaker, the democratically elected Government of Pakistan is
working to eradicate the terrorist threat on their own soil, to secure
the border with Afghanistan, and ensure accountability for the
military. Working with the Pakistani Government to ensure that they're
successful in doing this is vital to our national security interests.
For the sake of our troops in Afghanistan and for the sake of stability
and security in a critical region, we must remain engaged with the
democratically elected government in Islamabad.
This engagement takes a number of different forms. While we have no
combat troops in Pakistan, our military commanders have been building
relationships with their Pakistani counterparts. Particularly, as
Pakistan continues to go on the offensive against insurgent groups in
the tribal border region, the technical advisory role of our military
is a very limited yet a very important one.
Mr. Speaker, our national security leaders--Secretary of Defense
Gates; Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mullen; Secretary
of State Clinton; and the Special Envoy, Ambassador Holbrooke--all
agree the democratic and economic development in Pakistan is at the
heart of our national security interests. Building strong institutions
will ultimately ensure that Pakistan is able to fully eradicate the
violent extremism that threatens both our troops in Afghanistan and
stability for the entire region. That's why Secretary Clinton along
with Ambassador Holbrooke and USAID Administrator Shah have put such a
heavy emphasis on development during their visits just this past week.
There can be no long-term solution to the security challenges we face
in South Central Asia without Democratic and economic capacity
building. We have a number of ongoing programs, including, I'm very
happy to say, our 20-member House Democracy Partnership, on which I
have the privilege of serving with our great chairman, David Price. We
are currently working, Mr. Speaker, with the Pakistani legislature. And
I underscore the House Democracy Partnership because, sadly, not many
Members of this institution or among the American people are aware of
the work of the House Democracy Partnership.
We have partnered with 15 legislatures in new and reemerging
democracies around the world to help build up their parliament. We have
one of these programs going with the Pakistani Parliament. Through this
partnership, Members of the United States House of Representatives have
the opportunity to engage with our counterparts in Islamabad. We've
been sharing our experiences as a democracy, providing support and
technical assistance in their efforts to strengthen their legislative
institutions.
Now, Mr. Speaker, in the case of civilian control of the military,
this has a very clear and direct tie to our national security issues,
to the overall national security issues, and to our national security
interests. But the connections go well beyond the most obvious arenas.
By improving the capacity of the legislature overall, making the
government more responsive and accountable to the Pakistani people,
support for democracy can be solidified.
Now, as we look at this issue, as Democratic institutions strengthen,
so does the economic environment, providing new opportunity and
prosperity. There is this interdependence between political and
economic liberalization. That's why I also introduced a resolution that
will call for us to begin embarking on negotiations for an FTA with
Pakistan.
We know very well that democracy and economic opportunity, as I say,
are the only effective bulwarks against extremism in the long run.
Through greater trade engagement, we can help build the capacity that
enables economic growth, which will help to create a more secure,
stable, free, and open Pakistan. This is clearly in our own strategic
interest.
The resolution before us today is one that is likely motivated by
frustrations that many of us share. My very good friend from Cleveland
and I, Mr. Kucinich and I, share a high level of frustration,
especially, as I said earlier, with the reports that just came out this
past weekend, the WikiLeaks report that has been carried widely in The
New York Times and in other media outlets.
We see the very difficult challenges that our troops are facing in
the region, and we know that we must do everything we can to address
them. But, frankly, it's a little puzzling why we would attempt to
address these challenges through a resolution calling for the
withdrawal of combat troops from a country where none are deployed. We
should be focusing our efforts, instead, on the kinds of programs that
I have described that focus on building of those democratic
institutions and creating greater, greater economic liberalization.
As we look at this challenge, we all seek peace and prosperity around
the world, but in this most troubled spot in South Central Asia, we
have redoubled our efforts to ensure that that happens.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I know that I speak for every single one of my
colleagues, Democrat and Republican alike, when I say that we want our
troops in Afghanistan to come home safely, successfully, and soon, as
soon as possible, and we want to ensure that we will not have to deploy
them again.
Now, Mr. Speaker, we all know, repeatedly, as we look at nations
around the world where we have focused in on crises that they have gone
through jeopardizing our national security interests, we've chosen to
deal with them often quickly but we have failed to recognize how
important it is in the long term for us to do the kinds of things that
will build up democratic institutions and ensure greater economic
opportunity for these people in these regions. I believe that's a goal
that we all share and we're all committed to.
With that, Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from
Ohio (Mr. Kucinich).
Mr. KUCINICH. I thank Mr. McGovern and Mr. Dreier for enabling me to
participate in this debate. A little bit later we're going to get into
the substance of the War Powers Resolution.
But I think it's very important for the record to state, as the Wall
Street Journal in an article last week stated, that the United States
is stepping up a ground presence in Pakistan, and as part of that
ground presence, three United States troops were killed in Pakistan.
This, according to the Wall Street Journal. And I will put this in the
Record.
[From The Wall Street Journal, July 20, 2010]
U.S. Forces Step Up Pakistan Presence
(By Julian E. Barnes)
Washington--U.S. Special Operations Forces have begun
venturing out with Pakistani forces on aid projects,
deepening the American role in the effort to defeat Islamist
militants in Pakistani territory that has been off limits to
U.S. ground troops.
The expansion of U.S. cooperation is significant given
Pakistan's deep aversion to
[[Page H6108]]
allowing foreign military forces on its territory. The
Special Operations teams join the aid missions only when
commanders determine there is relatively little security
risk, a senior U.S. military official said, in an effort to
avoid direct engagement that would call attention to U.S.
participation.
The U.S. troops are allowed to defend themselves and return
fire if attacked. But the official emphasized the joint
missions aren't supposed to be combat operations, and the
Americans often participate in civilian garb.
Pakistan has told the U.S. that troops need to keep a low
profile. ``Going out in the open, that has negative optics,
that is something we have to work out,'' said a Pakistani
official. ``This whole exercise could be counterproductive if
people see U.S. boots on the ground.''
Because of Pakistan's sensitivities, the U.S. role has
developed slowly. In June 2008, top U.S. military officials
announced 30 American troops would begin a military training
program in Pakistan, but it took four months for Pakistan to
allow the program to begin.
The first U.S. Special Operations Forces were restricted to
military classrooms and training bases. Pakistan has
gradually allowed more trainers into the country and allowed
the mission's scope to expand. Today, the U.S. has about 120
trainers in the country, and the program is set to expand
again with new joint missions to oversee small-scale
development projects aimed at winning over tribal leaders,
according to officials familiar with the plan.
Such aid projects are a pillar of the U.S.
counterinsurgency strategy, which the U.S. hopes to pass on
to the Pakistanis through the training missions.
U.S. military officials say if U.S. forces are able to help
projects such as repairing infrastructure, distributing seeds
and providing generators or solar panels, they can build
trust with the Pakistani military, and encourage them to
accept more training in the field.
``You have to bring something to the dance,'' said the
senior military official. ``And the way to do it is to have
cash ready to do everything from force protection to other
things that will protect the population.''
Congressional leaders last month approved $10 million in
funding for the aid missions, which will focus reconstruction
projects in poor tribal areas that are off-limits to foreign
civilian aid workers.
The Pakistani government has warned the Pentagon that a
more visible U.S. military presence could undermine the
mission of pacifying the border region, which has provided a
haven for militants staging attacks in Pakistan as well as
Afghanistan.
The U.S. has already aroused local animosity with drone
strikes targeting militants in the tribal areas, though the
missile strikes have the tacit support of the Pakistani
government and often aid the Pakistani army's campaign
against the militants.
Providing money to U.S. troops to spend in communities they
are trying to protect has been a tactic used for years to
fight insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The move to accompany Pakistani forces in the field is even
more significant, and repeats a pattern seen in the
Philippines during the Bush administration, when Army Green
Berets took a gradually more expansive role in Manila's fight
against the terrorist group Abu Sayyaf in the southern
islands of Mindanao.
There, the Green Berets started in a limited training role,
and their initial deployment unleashed a political backlash
against the Philippine president. But as the Philippine
military began to improve their counterinsurgency skills,
Special Operations Forces accompanied them on major
offensives throughout the southern part of the archipelago.
In Pakistan, the U.S. military helps train both the regular
military and the Frontier Corps, a force drawn from residents
of the tribal regions but led by Pakistani Army officers.
The senior military official said the U.S. Special
Operations Forces have developed a closer relationship with
the Frontier Corps, and go out into the field more frequently
with those units. ``The Frontier Corps are more accepting
partners,'' said the official.
For years the Frontier Corps was underfunded and struggled
to provide basic equipment for its soldiers. A U.S. effort to
help equip the force has made them more accepting of outside
help.
Traveling with the Frontier Corps is dangerous. In
February, three Army soldiers were killed in Pakistan's
Northwest Frontier Province when a roadside bomb detonated
near their convoy. The soldiers, assigned to train the
Frontier Corps, were traveling out of uniform to the opening
of a school that had been renovated with U.S. money.
The regular Pakistani military also operates in the tribal
areas of Pakistan, but they are less willing to go on
missions with U.S. forces off the base, in part because they
believe appearing to accept U.S. help will make them look
weak, the senior U.S. military official said. The Pakistani
official said the military simply doesn't need foreign help.
During the past two years, Pakistan has stepped up military
operations against the militant groups that operate in the
tribal areas. Although Washington has praised the Pakistani
offensives, Pentagon officials have said Pakistan's military
needs help winning support among tribal elders. If
successful, More interactive graphics and photos the joint
missions and projects may help the Pakistani military retain
control of areas in South Waziristan, the Swat valley and
other border regions they have cleared of militants.
In Pakistan, the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad will retain
final approval for all projects, according to Defense
officials. But congressional staffers briefed on the program
said the intent is to have Pakistani military forces hand out
any of the goods bought with the funding or pay any local
workers hired.
``The goal is never to have a U.S. footprint on any of
these efforts,'' said a congressional staffer.
Now, the War Powers Resolution requires the President to report to
Congress when he introduces U.S. Armed Forces abroad in certain
situations. And section 4(a) requires reporting within 48 hours
whenever, and in the absence of a declaration of war or congressional
authorization, the introduction of U.S. Armed Forces ``into hostilities
or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly
indicated by the circumstances.''
{time} 1500
This is a report from the Congressional Research Service which
indicates that, since we have had troops involved in hostilities,
otherwise they would not have been killed by roadside bombs, that in
effect the War Powers Act is triggered.
So this debate is in order and the purpose of the debate, to remove
us from Pakistan, becomes urgent in light of the WikiLeaks expose,
which has indicated that the intelligence agency in Pakistan has been
collaborating with the Taliban in Afghanistan against our troops.
Pakistan wants us in Pakistan to help the Pakistan Government resist
the Taliban in Pakistan, but they want to play a double game, as the
New York Times pointed out in an editorial today, with the United
States by aiding the Taliban against our troops in Afghanistan. How can
we advance our national interests when a country which is supposed to
be our partner is duplicitous?
I insert the New York Times editorial in the Record.
[From the New York Times, July 26, 2010]
Pakistan's Double Game
There is a lot to be disturbed by in the battlefield
reports from Afghanistan released Sunday by WikiLeaks. The
close-up details of war are always unsettling, even more so
with this war, which was so badly neglected and bungled by
President George W. Bush.
But the most alarming of the reports were the ones that
described the cynical collusion between Pakistan's military
intelligence service and the Taliban. Despite the billions of
dollars the United States has sent in aid to Pakistan since
Sept. 11, they offer powerful new evidence that crucial
elements of Islamabad's power structure have been actively
helping to direct and support the forces attacking the
American-led military coalition.
The time line of the documents from WikiLeaks, an
organization devoted to exposing secrets, stops before
President Obama put his own military and political strategy
into effect last December. Administration officials say they
have made progress with Pakistan since, but it is hard to see
much evidence of that so far.
Most of the WikiLeaks documents, which were the subject of
in-depth coverage in The Times on Monday, cannot be verified.
However, they confirm a picture of Pakistani double-dealing
that has been building for years.
On a trip to Pakistan last October, Secretary of State
Hillary Rodham Clinton suggested that officials in the
Pakistani government knew where Al Qaeda leaders were hiding.
Gen. David Petraeus, the new top military commander in
Afghanistan, recently acknowledged longstanding ties between
Pakistan's Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, known
as the ISI, and the ``bad guys.''
The Times's report of the new documents suggests the
collusion goes even deeper, that representatives of the ISI
have worked with the Taliban to organize networks of
militants to fight American soldiers in Afghanistan and hatch
plots to assassinate Afghan leaders.
The article painted a chilling picture of the activities of
Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul of Pakistan, who ran the ISI from 1987 to
1989, when the agency and the C.I.A. were together arming the
Afghan militias fighting Soviet troops. General Gul kept
working with those forces, which eventually formed the
Taliban.
Pakistan's ambassador to the United States said the reports
were unsubstantiated and ``do not reflect the current on-
ground realities.'' But at this point, denials about links
with the militants are simply not credible.
Why would Pakistan play this dangerous game? The ISI has
long seen the Afghan Taliban as a proxy force, a way to
ensure its influence on the other side of the border and keep
India's influence at bay.
[[Page H6109]]
Pakistani officials also privately insist that they have
little choice but to hedge their bets given their suspicions
that Washington will once again lose interest as it did after
the Soviets were ousted from Afghanistan in 1989. And until
last year, when the Pakistani Taliban came within 60 miles of
Islamabad, the country's military and intelligence
establishment continued to believe it could control the
extremists when it needed to.
In recent months, the Obama administration has said and
done many of the right things toward building a long-term
relationship with Pakistan. It has committed to long-term
economic aid. It is encouraging better relations between
Afghanistan and Pakistan. It is constantly reminding
Pakistani leaders that the extremists, on both sides of the
border, pose a mortal threat to Pakistan's fragile
democracy--and their own survival. We don't know if they're
getting through. We know they have to.
It has been only seven months since Mr. Obama announced his
new strategy for Afghanistan, and a few weeks since General
Petraeus took command. But Americans are increasingly weary
of this costly war. If Mr. Obama cannot persuade Islamabad to
cut its ties to, and then aggressively fight, the extremists
in Pakistan, there is no hope of defeating the Taliban in
Afghanistan.
Mr. DREIER. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. KUCINICH. If I could get an extra minute.
Mr. McGOVERN. I yield the gentleman 1 additional minute.
Mr. KUCINICH. I yield to Mr. Dreier.
Mr. DREIER. I thank my friend for yielding.
Let me just say very quickly that obviously I'm very sympathetic with
the concern and I argue that the revelation of this WikiLeaks, you
know, thousands and thousands of documents that came forward, is
evidence that we need to work to continue to build the democratic
institutions and greater economic opportunity and civilian control.
Now it is no secret over the past several decades the relationship
between the ISI and problems in Afghanistan; everyone has been aware of
that. These documents have underscored the importance of it, but I
would argue, Mr. Speaker, that it is essential for us to make sure we
build up greater civilian control, and I think that's what we are
trying to do.
Mr. KUCINICH. I thank the gentleman, my friend.
I want to quote from The New York Times. You can understand how
serious this debate is. The Times said, ``But the most alarming of the
reports'' relating to WikiLeaks ``were the ones that described the
cynical collusion between Pakistan's military intelligence service and
the Taliban. Despite the billions of dollars the United States has sent
in aid to Pakistan since September 11, they offer powerful new evidence
that crucial elements of Islamabad's power structure have been actively
helping to direct and support the forces attacking the American-led
military coalition.''
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The time of the gentleman has expired.
Mr. McGOVERN. I yield the gentleman an additional 1 minute.
Mr. KUCINICH. I appreciate that.
So we have special forces now at least 20 miles inside the border of
Pakistan by news accounts, and they want us to help them there, while
Pakistan at the same time is helping those who are shooting at our
troops in Afghanistan.
Now, who are our allies? Who are our enemies here? That's the danger
of getting increasingly involved on the ground in Pakistan. That is why
I brought this resolution forward with the help of Mr. Paul. We have to
have this debate.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The time of the gentleman has again expired.
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I would like to yield my friend an
additional minute.
Mr. KUCINICH. The Times quotes General Petraeus as acknowledging
``longstanding ties between Pakistan's Directorate for Inter-Services
Intelligence'' and what he calls the ``bad guys.''
And the Times goes on to say in this editorial, ``The Times's report
of the new documents suggests the collusion goes even deeper, that
representatives of the ISI''--that's their spy agency in Pakistan--
``have worked with the Taliban to organize networks of militants to
fight American soldiers in Afghanistan and hatch plots to assassinate
Afghan leaders.''
I'm saying, do we want these people to be our partners, people who
are playing a double game with us? This is why we've got to get out of
Pakistan. We have to take a different approach here, and in the debate
that will ensue in the next, you know, few hours, whenever it's
scheduled, I hope to be able to get to some of the specifics of why
this resolution is important at this time.
Thank you, Mr. McGovern. Thank you, Mr. Dreier, for the opportunity.
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I am happy to yield 3 minutes to my good
friend from Lake Jackson, Texas (Mr. Paul).
Mr. PAUL. I thank the gentleman from California for yielding, and I
thank you both for bringing this rule to the floor. Even though it is a
privileged resolution, a privileged resolution has to qualify under the
law, and under the War Powers Resolution, this does qualify.
The question is, why are we doing it at this time? It seems like
Pakistan is a minor problem compared to what's going on in Afghanistan
as well as Iraq, but I think people have to realize that we go into war
differently these days. We don't make declarations of war and the
people get behind it. We slip into war. We fall into war. We get into
these messes, and it seems to me like it's so much easier to get into
these problems than getting out. We debate endlessly about getting out
of Afghanistan. We've debated for years about how and when it's ever
going to end in Iraq, and we bring this up now because this is an
appropriate time. It is escalating. The war is spreading, and we're
trying to stop this. We're trying to let the people know and let the
Congress know that this war is getting bigger. It is not getting
smaller. A lot of people thought with this administration war would get
smaller and we would end some of this.
It has been said that we need to be in Pakistan for national security
reasons. I disagree with that. I think the fact that we're in there
makes me feel more threatened because Pakistan is not about to attack
us. We talk about the few troops there and that they're insignificant
and we shouldn't worry about it, it's not significant, but that's the
way we started in Vietnam. People were training soldiers, and before
you knew it, we lost 60,000 people.
But you know, in this day and age, with the type of wars that we
fight, occupation with combat troops is not exactly how we get
involved, and I believe the way I read the War Powers Resolution, it
does involve attacks on countries with bombs. This is what we're doing.
We're attacking this country. The people of Pakistan don't like it. The
number of drone attacks in Pakistan now has doubled the number that it
was under the Bush administration. So it is escalating. There have been
14 al Qaeda leaders killed by these drone attacks, but there were also
687 civilians killed. So, therefore, the efficiency of this isn't all
that good, and now there's reports coming out that these drones don't
always come back, and a lot of times they crash, and a lot of times we
have to go out and find them. So there's a lot of activity going on.
There is another reason we bring this up at this time. It is
financial. We can't afford to expand the war. We can't afford the wars
we have already. We can't afford to take care of our people at home.
This costs money, and since we see this as an escalation and more
provocation and a greater danger to us, because people are going to get
upset. The people don't like this. There has actually already been a
court ruling in Pakistan.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I yield my friend an additional 2 minutes.
Mr. PAUL. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
But the finances are certainly important. In the Congress, because
we're slipping into this war, we have just recently granted $7.5
billion of aid to Pakistan. And what did they do with this money?
{time} 1510
Well, it's supposed to not be military. It's supposed to help rebuild
their country, help their infrastructure. Well, we need a couple of
dollars here for our infrastructure. But they can take that money; it's
fungible. It goes into their intelligence. Their intelligence
observations are being used for
[[Page H6110]]
the Taliban, and we are fighting the Taliban.
So it's totally inconsistent that we are on both sides of so many
wars and what's going on. The mujahedin, they were our allies and we
were fighting the occupation of the Soviets. It's the occupation that
is the issue, and we were on their side and the Soviets were run out.
But now that same group, who are called the Taliban now, the Taliban,
we have to remember, had nothing to do with 9/11. It was the al Qaeda,
not the Taliban. The Taliban are people who are unified with one issue,
one concern they have, foreign occupation or foreign bombings of those
countries.
We need to make sure the American people know what's going on and
that there are sometimes revelations that we don't hear about. Too
often our government is involved in secret wars. There was secret
bombing of Cambodia back in the 1960s, and here we are slipping and
sliding once more into the escalation of this war which, unfortunately,
is going to cost us a lot of money; it's going to cost us a lot of
lives, a lot of innocent lives.
Unfortunately, I wish I could believe that we are going to be more
secure for this. I think we are going to be less secure because of this
activity, and we will finally someday have to meet up to the question
of why do they want to come here to kill us? Do they want to do it
because of their religion? Do they want to do it because we are rich
and because we are free? No. They want to come here because we occupy
their territory.
Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. Speaker, I would like to yield 2 minutes to the
gentleman from Colorado, a member of the Committee on Rules, Mr. Polis.
Mr. POLIS. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in support of the rule and in
opposition to the supplemental funding to escalate the war in
Afghanistan.
This Nation does face a very real terrorist threat, but the terrorist
threat is a stateless menace, a menace that is not rooted in any one
location or has any dominion in one particular area and is, in fact,
mobile. In fact, the two countries that our Nation continues to occupy,
namely, Iraq and Afghanistan are not significant bases of operation for
al Qaeda.
This discussion should absolutely include Pakistan and the border
area, particularly between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We have in
Pakistan a better partner than we have in Afghanistan with regard to
the war on terror. It is not an ideal partner, but it is a better
partner than we have found, and I hope our Nation continues to work
with the good people of Pakistan and the good forces within the
Government of Pakistan to help keep the American people safe and the
Pakistani people safe.
We need to continue our efforts to battle terrorists wherever they
are. How to focus on this stateless menace? We need to use intelligence
gathering, targeted special operations, and a refocused emphasis on
homeland security. All these are very costly and expensive and are
ongoing and an indefinite occupation of Afghanistan reduces our ability
to do the things we need to do to keep the American people safe.
That's why I have consistently opposed the escalation of troops in
Afghanistan and will continue to do so today by voting against the
supplemental funding. There is a real threat, but the answer is not to
continue to indefinitely occupy countries where we only breed more
sympathy with those who would do us harm. We must bring the war in
Afghanistan to a responsible end. That's why I will vote against the
war supplemental, and I call upon my colleagues to join me in helping
to protect Americans with a new foreign policy in the region.
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
I have to say it's fascinating to see my two very good friends, our
former Presidential candidates, Mr. Paul and Mr. Kucinich, who have
obviously come together working very thoughtfully on this. I think, Mr.
Speaker, they are both making some very interesting arguments about the
cost, about the challenges that exist, and I do concur with that.
I would simply say that we are where we are today. It's very
unfortunate that we are where we are today. Where we are, we are; but
fact of the matter is, that is what we do face.
There are a number of people who, as leaders on this issue within the
Obama administration, are working overtime to seek to address this. I
mentioned Secretary Gates, Admiral Mullen, Secretary Clinton and
Ambassador Holbrooke. I have spent time with virtually all of them
talking about the challenge of this issue.
As I mentioned earlier, I am very privileged to work closely with
David Price and the other 18 members of our House Democracy Partnership
because we concur, the notion of anything other than civilian control
of the military and the intelligence services in Pakistan or any other
country for that matter is not acceptable. And that's why I believe
that while we look at the cost of both lives, as well as the financial
burden that is imposed on us, we need to ensure that we are not going
to face the kind of threat that we have before.
Now, we know that al Qaeda and those al Qaeda-inspired terrorists,
not necessarily tied to al Qaeda, but inspired, exist all over the
world. We recognize that; but we also have to, Mr. Speaker, realize
that Pakistan to this day continues to be ground zero.
As I said, the porous border with Afghanistan has provided an
invitation for al Qaeda in Afghanistan to move into Pakistan. As we
look at the difficulty that exists, for decades, there have been
problems with the ISI. I just mentioned in a private discussion I had
with my friend from Cleveland that I remember very vividly in the
1980s, in 1987, to be exact, when I had the opportunity to travel with
our former colleague, the late Charlie Wilson, who took me to Pakistan
and at that time we witnessed problems within the ISI.
But the fact that there are problems within the ISI, appropriately or
inappropriately, I mean the leaks that came out, I know that there are
more than a few who believe this could jeopardize the lives of our
fellow Americans who are over there. But the fact of the matter is, it
is not a completely new revelation.
That's why doing everything within our power to strengthen democratic
institutions and opportunities for greater economic liberalization so
that we can see the economy of this country of 140 million people in
South Central Asia grow to the point where we will diminish the kind of
threat that we faced on September 11. I mean, it's hard to believe that
here it is now, almost August, and we will be marking the ninth
anniversary of one of the most tragic days in our Nation's history.
I mean, that is the reason that we are doing what we are in Pakistan
and Afghanistan. Has it gone perfectly? Absolutely not. No one can
point to a war that has gone absolutely perfectly. Maybe Grenada, the
invasion that Ronald Reagan had in the 1980s; but it is very rare that
one can point to a conflict, the likes of which we have never seen
before, and come to the conclusion that this has been handled
perfectly.
Confirmation hearings are going on right now for the new CENTCOM
leader. We have a new general who is leading the effort in Afghanistan,
the highly, highly acclaimed General David Petraeus, who successfully
oversaw the surge in Iraq. We are all very gratified that we are seeing
the democratic institutions build up in Iraq. Still problems: just the
news this morning of an al Qaeda attack in Mosul in Iraq.
So we are continuing to see problems, but I believe that if we were
to take this action that we would undermine the ability for us to
continue our quest to strengthen both the democratic institutions and
the opportunity for greater economic opportunity to exist in this very,
very critically important country.
With that, Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. McGOVERN. I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Texas (Mr.
Paul).
Mr. PAUL. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
I have one question about the rule: How will the time be divided?
Mr. McGOVERN. The time will be 30 minutes for Mr. Kucinich, and 30
minutes for the Committee on Foreign Affairs.
{time} 1520
Mr. PAUL. So it will be a total of 1 hour?
Mr. McGOVERN. That's correct.
Mr. PAUL. Thank you.
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume to
[[Page H6111]]
simply use this opportunity to again talk about the very important work
that is taking place in Pakistan today.
We all know that it is among the most troubled regions in the world.
We just had the resolution read from the desk. As we look, 1 year from
this coming September will mark the 10th anniversary of September 11.
And it was, as I said a moment ago, one of the most tragic days in our
Nation's history. We all can, those of us who were privileged to be
serving in the Congress, recount the time here in the Capitol on
September 11. And of course I'm immediately thinking about what a
horrible, horrible day it was. Like many people, I knew people who were
killed on September 11, and it changed our world forever.
We are dealing with a difficult and absolutely unprecedented
situation. And I have to say that I am troubled with the notion of this
resolution, respecting my colleagues, and actually agreeing with a
number of the arguments that they make. But I believe that the
resolution that will be made in order under this rule--as was said, we
don't actually need a rule to do it, but the structure that has been
put in place under this rule that will allow for consideration of the
gentleman's resolution--is one that I think could create the potential
to undermine something that I believe we all want to achieve, and that
is we want to make sure that Pakistan, as it's developing its sea
legs--and I was just thinking about a meeting that Mr. Price and I and
other members of our House Democracy Partnership had with Prime
Minister Gilani not long ago and with the Speaker of the Pakistani
Parliament.
And as we look at these democratically elected leaders there who, on
a daily basis, are striving to make sure that they can have adequate
oversight of both the military and the intelligence agencies--I
remember seeing General Musharraf, who was President at the same time.
I was with him the day that he gave up his military uniform and became
a civilian leader. So they are continuing to work through this. And the
support that we are providing, which is in our national security
interest, is very important.
And I mentioned, Mr. Speaker, the notion of a free trade agreement
with Pakistan. I think that creating an opportunity for the greater
free flow of goods and services will strengthen, again, the economies
of both the United States of America and Pakistan as well. So these are
the kinds of things that need to be done in our national security
interest.
If I've said this once, I've said it 100 times here on the House
floor. The five most important words in the preamble of our U.S.
Constitution--that inspired document authored by the great Virginian,
James Madison--the five most important words are ``provide for the
common defense.'' Virtually everything else that's done can be done by
other levels of government, whether it be individuals, families,
churches or synagogues or mosques, cities, counties, States, but
national security can only be handled by the United States of America's
Federal Government. That is why I believe that we need to do what we
can to ensure that we are successful and, as I said, that our men and
women come home as quickly as possible and safely.
So I will say that my colleagues are working diligently on this, but
I do believe that, at the end of the day, this resolution is not worthy
of our support.
Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time.
Let me, first of all, begin by saying I'm not sure whether the
underlying resolution introduced by Mr. Kucinich is necessarily the
right way to approach this issue, but he and Mr. Paul are reflecting
the anxiety, the growing anxiety, the growing fear of a lot of Members
of Congress and a lot of people throughout this country that the United
States of America is continuously getting sucked into wars that have no
end, wars that are costing us dearly in terms of the lives of our brave
men and women who serve in uniform, and it is costing us dearly in
terms of our treasury. We're going bankrupt.
People talk about the deficit all the time around here, but the
reality is that these wars, by and large, are not paid for--the war in
Afghanistan, the war in Iraq. It's all going onto our credit card, and
it's going to be paid for by my kids and my grandkids and my great-
grandkids. We are going bankrupt by the wars that we are fighting.
And I think they also reflect this feeling that we seem unable to
make the necessary adjustments to our policy when they appear to not be
working in the way we would like them to work. In Afghanistan, for
example, we've been there for nearly 10 years. And the WikiLeaks
documents that were published all over the world yesterday remind us
that, notwithstanding all the sacrifices of the American soldiers and
their families and all the money we have poured into that country, that
we don't have any reliable partners.
The Afghan Government is corrupt and incompetent. The President of
that country oversaw an election where they stuffed the ballot boxes,
and our men and women are sacrificing their lives to prop that
government up. We don't have a reliable partner in the Afghan police or
in the Afghan military. And as we learned from these documents--again,
it isn't new, but it was emphasized by the release of these documents--
that we don't have a reliable partner, by and large, with certain
elements of Pakistan. That does not mean that we should walk away from
Pakistan, and I want to agree with much of what my colleague from
California (Mr. Dreier) said.
I believe it is important for the United States to support civilian
institutions and to support democratic movements in Pakistan. I want
the civilian government in Pakistan to be able to have control over the
security forces and the military forces in a way that we believe that
they are actually in control.
So I think this debate that we are going to have here today on the
Pakistan War Powers Act is important. I'm not quite sure that this is
the way we should deal with Pakistan with the underlying resolution,
but I will conclude by making reference to another measure we are going
to be voting on here today, and that is the supplemental war funding
bill.
In light of what was released yesterday, in light of all the
questions that have been raised, it seems to me that it is
inappropriate for us to vote ``yes'' on a blank check for this
administration to do whatever they want in Afghanistan. I have great
respect for the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State and the
President of the United States, but I have to tell you I am deeply
troubled that, with all that is coming out, that we are not doing
hearings, we're not doing our oversight. We're basically going to be
asked to vote for a $33 billion package--all borrowed money--and kick
the can down the road and let's hope when we come back in September
that maybe things will get better.
We were told almost 1 year ago that we would never have another
supplemental. Well, here we are doing another supplemental and we have
a policy in Afghanistan that is not clearly defined. And so I
understand the anxiety and the frustration of Mr. Paul and Mr.
Kucinich. I share that anxiety and frustration as well. But it seems to
me that we in Congress have a responsibility, too. These wars are not
just the administration's wars. They are our wars, too. We fund them.
We're the ones who go along with it. We're the ones who decide whether
we're going to condition aid or whether we're going to withhold aid,
and I think we should be doing a better job.
We have known for a long time that the Pakistan intelligence agencies
have been undercutting our efforts in Afghanistan. They have put our
soldiers at risk. We have known that for a long time, yet what have we
done? So this may be a time for us to raise some of these issues, raise
some of these questions, hopefully prompt more Members of this body to
get involved in this debate, but also to send a signal to the
administration that we really need to reevaluate what we're doing. We
need to rethink some of these strategies. And if we are going in the
wrong direction, we need to have the courage to change course if
necessary.
{time} 1530
With that, Mr. Speaker, I would urge a ``yes'' vote on the previous
question and on the rule.
I yield back the balance of my time, and I move the previous question
on the resolution.
[[Page H6112]]
The previous question was ordered.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the resolution.
The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that
the ayes appeared to have it.
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 8 of rule XX, further
proceedings on this question will be postponed.
____________________