[Congressional Record Volume 153, Number 162 (Wednesday, October 24, 2007)]
[House]
[Pages H12001-H12008]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
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MANAGING PUBLIC LANDS
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. McNerney). Under the Speaker's announced
policy of January 18, 2007, the gentleman from Utah (Mr. Bishop) is
recognized for 60 minutes as the designee of the minority leader.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity you
have given us to speak for awhile about public lands and about how the
public lands are treated and how the future will and will not deal with
those public lands.
One of the facts that we have to deal with is how a government deals
with property, whether personal property or public property, is a
window to the soul of that government. Personal property is tangible
and civil liberties are intangible, but both of them are at the center
of the historic purpose of this American government, and the
preservation of one is indeed the precondition for the preservation of
the other.
Sir Henry Maine once wrote a book called ``The Village Communities''
in which he said: Nobody is at liberty to attack several property and
to say at the same time he values civilization. The history of the two
cannot be disentangled. The desire, the use of property, whether it is
on land or whether it is the use of public property, that desire is
what raises mankind from political slavery.
One of the things that we do not often enough around this place is to
consider why we are doing what we are doing. Indeed, one of the
concepts that is there is that we do what we do because we have done
what we always did; and sometimes when you take a moment to look back
and reflect on that, in this particular Congress we have been inundated
with laws and proposals which have huge and significant impact on
personal and public property in the United States.
Mr. Speaker, one of the things I would like to do is try to go
through with several Members who are in the West, public land States
who understand firsthand the responsibility and relationship of this,
specifically what we are doing in these particular areas.
One of the people I would like to address some of these issues deals
with the public property in our forests. As you know, we are having
major fires in this country, and the Speaker on this floor said now is
the time we need to do what is right.
I would like to yield some time to the gentleman from Oregon (Mr.
Walden) and simply ask him to address that, of what can this Congress
do to make it right, especially when we deal with our forests and our
processes for the future of our forests to make them healthier or
better.
Mr. WALDEN of Oregon. Thank you, Mr. Bishop. I appreciate your work
on
[[Page H12002]]
the issues we have worked on in the past.
The California fires are tragic in what is happening to the people
who live there, the loss of life, the loss of habitat, the pollution
that is going into the air. I have been told that the California
wildfires have burned the equivalent of 10 times the square mileage of
the District of Columbia. Ten times the size of the District of
Columbia has gone up in smoke in California so far.
In my district in Oregon this year, 11 times the size of the District
of Columbia has gone up in fire. Now fortunately we have not seen the
loss of life and we haven't seen the loss of homes. But what we have
seen is the loss of land for grazing and habitat and clean water as our
watersheds have gone up in smoke.
This picture here I brought down to the floor for my colleagues to
see. It is of two young children who are from Harney County, Oregon.
This is the Egley fire which burned in my district 140,000 acres;
140,000 acres, the Egley fire burned in Harney County. America's forest
lands going up in smoke.
There are 192 million acres of national forest system lands.
According to the Forest Service, 52 million of those acres are at high
risk to catastrophic wildfires. Twelve million acres in Oregon are
considered high risk; 26 million acres, or just under the size of the
State of Kentucky, are at risk to insect infestation.
You have to understand that our forests are not static. They continue
to grow and suffer bug infestation, drought devastation, and ultimately
fire. The total net national forest growth in the United States is
currently about 20 billion board feet a year. Total mortality is about
10 billion board feet. So our forests are expanding at 20 billion board
feet a year, America's federally owned forests, and 10 billion board
feet die. We harvest less than 2 billion board feet.
That is part of our topic today, the lack of active management in our
Federal forests. I want to show you what happens on a watershed. This
is up in northeastern Oregon. In 1989, the Tanner Gulch fire wiped out
the spring Chinook salmon run in Oregon's Upper Grand Ronde River. This
used to be habitat for salmon. There was a creek that ran along here.
Unfortunately, it is just mud and sludge and debris and blackened trees
and ashen slopes.
Now in an extreme fire, scientists tell us that the most catastrophic
fire that occurs in our forests emits about 100 tons of carbon and
greenhouse gases. For those concerned about trying to do something
about carbon emissions in our atmosphere and trying to reduce other
pollutants in our atmosphere, we need to do something to manage our
forests better to prevent these catastrophic fires. That is on the
extreme, the 100 tons per acre.
A healthy green forest will sequester between 4 and 6 tons of carbon
per acre. So these are the choices we are facing: How do you manage the
forests for better forest health, for reduced fire and reduced fire
intensity, and get them back into balance with nature. My colleague
from Utah said what do you do about that.
Well, a few years ago we passed the Healthy Forest Restoration Act.
It was bipartisan in its nature and scope. It was designed to allow
Federal agencies, the Forest Service, and the Bureau of Land
Management, to more rapidly, while still involving the public, go in
and do the kind of thinning and debris removal to address this issue of
the overgrown forests you heard me mention, the 20 billion board feet a
year that grows in our forests and the 10 billion that dies, so we can
go in, especially in the wildland-urban interface, near communities
where homes are, the kind of homes we see burning today, although they
are not necessarily in a Federal forest, but it is a similar concept.
So to be able to go in quickly and have scientifically proven plans,
based on community wildfire plans, in many cases, to go in and remove
that debris and reduce that fire hazard.
That legislation which I coauthored with former Representative Scott
McInnis from Colorado and Senator Feinstein and Senator Wyden were both
very much involved, has worked in many cases, especially the community
wildfire planning piece because that piece brought diverse groups
together, environmentalists, community leaders, firefighters. We have a
group here from Bend who have been on the forefront of this very
effort, firefighters from my own district. They came together and
developed plans on how do we safeguard the communities and the things
we really want to protect, our watersheds and habitat. They came
together, and now they can even more quickly implement those community
wildfire plans.
The problem we face in this Congress is virtually every Member of the
leadership of this Congress voted ``no'' on the final conference report
that passed the Senate unanimously, and that includes the Speaker,
majority leader, the caucus chairman, the Resources Committee chairman,
the subcommittee chairman, and the Rules Committee chairwoman all voted
against the Healthy Forest Restoration Act conference report. This is
what we worked out with the Senate. It passed and became law. We now
have these community wildfire plans in place. We need to continue to
work and expand them elsewhere. It is so important.
So far this year in America's forests and grasslands on Federal land,
more than 8 million acres have burned. We are setting records. This is
down a little bit from last year, but over the last few years, we are
at record levels. American taxpayers have spent $1.22 billion fighting
fires, and that is before these awful fires in California have broken
out. So it is very expensive when we don't manage properly and have
fires break out.
Let me tell you what has happened. In my district, it is 70,000
square miles of eastern Oregon. It is beautiful. We have nine national
forests there. We have national grasslands. We have wilderness areas.
We have Crater Lake National Park and high desert plateaus, wheat land,
and we have had all these fires. They have destroyed communities and
many homes in the past. They have inflicted death. They have burned,
and it takes years to recover. In fact, we have cattle ranchers in
central and eastern Oregon who may be off their allotments for 2 years
because it will take that long for the range to recover from fires
that, frankly, shouldn't have gotten so out of hand if we had done the
right management to begin with.
In the meantime, the infrastructure that needs to be there for our
scientists and professional forest managers to conduct this forest
thinning is going away because, you see, the allowable harvest of
timber off Federal land has declined in my part of the world by 80
percent, 80 percent reduction. And with it, the timber receipts to
these communities.
So this chart going back to 1976 shows the various timber receipt
levels. And you get out here, and you see there is virtually no revenue
coming off our Federal land, revenue that used to help pay for
restoration work, that used to help pay for conservation efforts, that
used to help pay for parks and other things, the activities people like
to do when they recreate. And, most importantly, revenues that used to
be shared with the local counties to fund their schools and their
roads.
In the largest county in my district, Jackson County, this year
because timber receipts are virtually eliminated, and because the
county replacement program was stalled in its reauthorization, which is
fundamentally flawed in my opinion, they had to close all the
libraries. This is not some thousand-person county. This is largest
populated county in my district. Every library had to close.
Another county down on the south Oregon coast, they were looking at
declaring bankruptcy. Another was going to have to lay off all their
sheriff's deputies except those mandated by State law to run the jail
to provide security because this Congress hasn't passed the Secure
Rural Schools Reauthorization. I would hope that could be brought to
the floor and passed so that those of us in the West, and the gentleman
from Utah (Mr. Bishop) has a wonderful map showing Federal land
ownership, but where most of the Federal lands are in the West, my
district is over half Federal land. And it is important.
When Teddy Roosevelt created the national forest reserves in 1905, he
said it needs to be a partnership with the communities in the
management of these lands and in the revenues that are shared, and
these lands need to be
[[Page H12003]]
properly managed. I think he would roll over in his grave today if he
knew what had happened in terms of the disassociation with the
communities, in terms of the bug-infested nature of our forests, the
droughts that have occurred that have left them distressed, and the
disease that has come in, and then how they burn. And then we leave
them.
In the last Congress, I wrote, and many of my colleagues on both
sides of the aisle, including the gentleman from Washington (Mr.
Baird), a Democrat, former Sierra Club chapter president, helped me
write the Forest Emergency Recovery and Research Act.
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So we, like private forest landowners and State forest landowners and
county forest landowners and others, could get in right after a fire,
take out where appropriate, where environmentally appropriate, in
sensitive ways the dead trees that still have value, create the jobs,
recover the wood, and replant sooner. We passed it in this House, big
bipartisan margin to pass it. It went up on the rocks in the great
graveyard we call the Senate, where all good ideas go to founder and
die, and it did.
The fires in California, fires in my district, the fact that forests
continue to grow exponentially, global climate change means they're
going to be more under threat from higher temperature and, therefore,
more drought and more bug infestation, more disease and more fire. This
Congress, this country needs to adopt new policies.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. I appreciate the gentleman from Oregon who's been
a leader in trying to make sure that we have a healthy forest
environment, and it means that we have to change some of the policies
that we've had in the past, and I appreciate his leadership in those
areas. I would like him to address just maybe one element.
Because of mistakes, I think, that we have made in the past on how we
have decided to handle the forests in the future, those counties, those
areas where citizens live next to the forest and where the forest
becomes an integral part of their lifestyle, are facing a huge and
significant problem, and especially their kids in secure rural schools.
I wonder if the gentleman for just one second would take a moment to
explain what we should be doing right now with relationship to secure
rural schools, forest area schools.
Mr. WALDEN of Oregon. Well, we need to pass the legislation that's
just come out of the Natural Resources Committee that would reauthorize
the program that shared receipts or made up for the receipts that no
longer are being generated with the county roads and schools. That
legislation, and you are the ranking member on the subcommittee, worked
very hard to make sure it's properly crafted, would provide for
replacement revenue because, you see, that partnership shouldn't be
broken, that promise shouldn't be shattered.
Communities where there are Federal lands, especially timbered
communities, that have no real other ability to have an economic base
in some cases, and yet, and I diverge a little here, but yet are still
responsible when somebody's lost. Who's out there doing the recovery?
The sheriff, out of the county. We've seen that tragically in my
district, in my State, with the Kim family that was lost in southern
Oregon. Family went out for a drive, got snowed in on a road, and the
father died, and I believe the child and mother survived after several
days. A number of climbers on Mt. Hood fell to their death. Their
bodies have yet to be recovered from last year.
I was down in central Oregon and southern Oregon where sheriffs are
out in the forests dealing with organized crime elements that have
moved in to grow marijuana in highly sophisticated, generally Mexican,
drug trafficking organizations, highly armed, very sophisticated. It's
our sheriffs that are going in and trying and their deputies to deal
with these issues.
So these costs of recovery, of rescue, of dealing with law
enforcement issues on Federal ground are borne in large measure by the
counties. And yet when you stop doing productive work on our national
forests and they continue to grow and die at the same time, you don't
have the revenue; yet, you still have greater and greater demand,
people moving in to the wild land urban interface.
So this Congress gave us a 1-year reprieve in the emergency
supplemental this spring. We need to reauthorize the county payments
program for another 5 years, at a minimum, and we need to keep the
Federal Government's commitment. If we're not going to do that, then we
need to. And we probably need to do this anyway, frankly, get in with a
new strategy on how to manage forests.
Now, I'm told in Canada where bugs have wiped out the lodgepole pine,
the Canadian Government has come in and said actively get in there,
take out the dead trees and let's get new forests going quickly. And
they are rapidly clearing out the dead trees and starting new forests.
Our alternative here appears to be let it burn, let it rot, and 100
years from now we'll come back and take a look. I don't think that's
the kind of stewardship Teddy Roosevelt had in mind when he talked
about the great forest reserves and their use for water, for
agriculture, and wood for home building. If you go back and read his
speeches when he was creating these reserves; he wanted this long-term
look at management of this wonderful resource we have.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. You have long been involved in bipartisan efforts
to solve this problem for your constituents, especially with their
schools. I wonder if you would just take a couple more minutes before
we segue into the next speaker, next area, simply talking about what we
practically can do for secure rural schools right now, as well as what
we should probably ask our leadership to do that we should be
practically doing right now in the long term for healthy forests in the
future.
Mr. WALDEN of Oregon. Well, there are two things. One on the forest
side. Let me take that first, and then I'll talk about county payments.
You're right. I always figured people sent us back here not because
of our party label and we're only supposed to use that; they sent us
back here to solve problems. And that's how I've tried to approach
this, and that's why on the Healthy Forest Restoration Act, it was
bipartisan when it passed this House, although the leadership in place
today, from the Speaker all the way to the subcommittee chairman,
opposed that bill, the bill that passed bipartisanly, unanimously in
the Senate in its final form. They voted against it. But that's law and
that's worked.
We need to pass a version similar to the Forest Emergency Recovery
and Research Act so that we can go in and clean up after these fires
and use the burned, dead trees while they still have value; create jobs
in our community. Then we won't need these Federal payments after all
if we better manage the forests. We need to increase the allowable cut
in our forests so that we can generate jobs and so that we can harvest
wood here legally for our uses rather than buy our wood products
manufactured overseas from illegally logged forests that are being
wiped out in places like Burma and Malaysia and Indonesia and Russia
and China where they may have laws on the books and they're completely
unenforced.
So, as a result, we all gleefully go to the local furniture store and
buy this furniture that's made from wood that was illegally harvested,
while our forests burned, and we don't even recover the burned, dead
trees. So we need to deal with that issue.
And we need to take into account some terrific research out of the
forest service about the change in temperature that's occurring and how
the forests are going to move north, but it will take them 10,000 years
to catch up with the temperature that should change in about 100 years,
if all their data is correct, and I know some of that still needs to be
worked out.
So, finally, on the issue of county payments, first I think the first
day of this session my colleague Peter DeFazio, a Democrat from Oregon,
and I, as we did the prior session, introduced legislation with you and
others to reauthorize the county payments law. That partnership needs
to be kept. That promise needs to be kept, regardless of who carries
the gavels around here. And it's taken until just a week or so ago to
get it out of the first committee. It still has an Ag Committee
referral on it, and it's yet to come to this floor. We should be
bringing that to the floor and voting it up and down
[[Page H12004]]
and moving it to the Senate or they should be sending us a bill. But
right now, it appears to be, I don't know, held up, and that's not good
for our children. It's not good for our libraries, not good for our
first responders. It's not good for our county roads.
These school districts in some States have to send their layout
notices out in March to tell teachers whether or not they're going to
have the money for the following year. As you know, this year that
happened in some school districts.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. I appreciate the comments from the gentleman from
Oregon. I especially appreciate his comments about our bipartisan bill
that has been referred out of Resources. The Speaker of the House does
have the ability of helping to move that bill along and can change the
referral process to bring this one to the floor. And how significant
this is, with these particular counties for the so-called secure rural
schools, schools that are impacted by our policies in the passed-over
forestlands. We need to have that on the floor now, and it has a
funding source. It can be moved right now. I think I would probably
join you in asking the Speaker publicly to bring that bill to the
floor, let us vote on it, let us move the process forward, get it over
to the Senate so we can solve that problem.
Mr. WALDEN of Oregon. As the gentleman knows, the clock is running.
Time is running out, not just on our Special Order tonight but on the
school kids and the counties and the services that our citizens rely
upon in these forested areas, because that funding stream we got that
1-year extension on is running out, as is the time in this Congress
running out.
We'll be off 2 weeks after Thanksgiving, a week. We're going to be in
for a day and a half or 2 days, couple of weeks in December. Then we're
into January and maybe in 1 week there. You know, it's the way Congress
works, but we're running out of time, and we shouldn't run out on the
promise that this Congress should uphold to the school kids and the
communities in America's rural counties.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. I appreciate the gentleman from Oregon for
specifically and very eloquently stating what the problems are in our
national forests.
He, as well as I and many of those who will be speaking this evening,
come from what are called public lands States. You see the map that I
have to my left. Everything that is blue in those States is the amount
of that State which is owned and controlled by the National Government,
and you can obviously see that there's a unique difference between the
States in the West and the States in the East.
Now, a big chunk of this blue in the West is national forests, which
Representative Walden understands very definitely, very clearly, and
needs to deal with that particular issue. And he's given us some
directions on what we need to do to do it right.
The other part of this blue deals with land that's owned by the
Bureau of Land Management, BLM land, and all of these lands, whether
they be forestlands or BLM lands or parklands, have an impact on the
States in which we find this particular land.
I'd ask my colleague from Utah, Mr. Cannon, if you'd maybe take a
moment and talk about how we try to help these Western States that
don't have control over their lands but still have the responsibility
of providing services not just for the westerners but also the
easterners that are coming directly on these lands with a program known
as PILT, payment in lieu of taxes.
I yield to Mr. Cannon.
Mr. CANNON. I thank the gentleman from Utah, my colleague, for
recognizing me and organizing this event, and you've seen his blue
chart. I grew up thinking that blue meant Republicans. We had this
anomaly here recently, because red normally meant the Soviets. I have
here a map of the United States, and when Ronald Reagan saw this map it
was in red, that is, the public lands that you see mostly in the
western part of the United States were in red. He looked at that and he
compared that to a Soviet state, and he said he'd never seen so much
government domination as is expressed by that since the Soviet Union.
So, not being partisan about these issues, which are really in fact
not partisan, let me just suggest that there is something terrifically
wrong with the Federal Government owning so much of these States. You
can see that in Nevada, 93 percent of the State is owned by the Federal
Government. In Utah, it's over 70 percent. In California, it's about 50
percent. This is a huge amount of public ownership of our lands.
As a result, you can see also that the ownership by the Federal
Government is spread around the whole United States. In fact, there are
about 19,000 counties in the United States that have public lands of
some sort in them, and in those counties the Federal Government pays to
those counties money that substitutes for the taxes that those counties
would otherwise receive. We call this payment in lieu of taxes, and
it's fair.
It's fair in the East where we have small amounts of land and the
payments are substantial, but it's not fair in the West where we've
taken a vast amount of public lands out of the system, and therefore,
States can't actually have any kind of revenue stream from those public
lands.
Now, the blue map that you saw that represented how much of the
Western States is owned by the Federal Government is interesting, and
Mr. Bishop I think is going to come back and talk about this startling
fact, but it is clear that all of the people in the Western part of the
country pay more in the way of taxes per family, per capita and
otherwise, than in the eastern part of the country.
It's also clear that in the western part of the country, where we
have this domination of Federal lands, that we pay less per pupil for
schools than people in the East do. So we tax more and we pay less, and
the reason we do that is because of the ownership of public lands by
the Federal Government.
This leaves us in a difficult circumstance where it's just plain
harder to grow in the West. Now, I've got to count my State, which is
by many measures the best place in the country to do business, and I
don't want to suggest there's a problem there. In fact, we love our
public lands because people can go out and recreate, and that's why
people who are high-tech and others want to come to Utah. It's a great
place to live and to work and be. But you have to buy into the fact
that if the Federal Government owns that property, you have to pay more
in the way of taxes.
I have many friends who live in the Northeast who have said to me
over time, these are America's lands. And if you look at the map, you
have got a little bit of New Hampshire and Maine and there's a
sprinkling around here in the eastern part of the country. But when
they talk about America's lands, they're talking about the public lands
in the West.
I spent some time at Disneyland one day with my wife and kids, and
that can be very long and painful. We finally got into the ``Honey, I
Shrunk the Kids'' exhibit, and I thought as we got to the door that we
were almost ready to get on the ride, but then we got through the door
and we had a long, long, half-an-hour-long line to wait through to get
into the exhibit.
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I was uptight, irritated. They had to pass by people like me. They
had pictures of America flashing on the walls, and I noticed a picture
from my district. I thought, well, that's nice. Two pictures later
there is another picture from my district. Three pictures later there
was another. The fact is, we have beautiful, beautiful lands in the
West, and we welcome everyone to come out and join us on those lands.
But if they are America's lands, then we have a responsibility as
Americans to pay the costs of those lands. If we are not going to use
them productively, if we are not going to tax them for productive use,
then we have an obligation in America to pay for those lands.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. One of the things I have been hearing so many
times, you may have said this already earlier, that PILT, payment for
all these lands, is nothing more than a handout for the poor western
counties.
Is this a handout or is this a responsibility that we have for these
lands?
Mr. CANNON. Is that a handout or a hand in our pockets by the Federal
Government? This is, in fact, not a handout at all.
Every county in the country taxes its public lands. Every county
does. Every
[[Page H12005]]
State has a regime for taxing public lands. But we can't, because the
Federal Government is sovereign, we can't tax lands that are owned by
the Federal Government.
So if you want people to be there for search-and-rescue when you get
lost in some of the beautiful parts of my county or my State, we expect
to be paid for that. It's not an expectation that's vacuous or whiny,
it's an expectation based upon what we are giving up in these western
States and in Utah, in particular.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. We are talking about what these lands can do and
how we can benefit the constituents that are out there in these western
lands as well. One of it deals with the bounties that have been placed
in there in these western lands, what we can do if we actually bring
them about.
I am often amazed how we sit under this quotation from Daniel Webster
saying that in actuality if we want this country to move, we need to
take the resources that are here and develop them. That's where
progress comes.
The gentleman represents a State in an area that has a significant
amount of natural resources that have yet to be developed, and I am
talking specifically about oil shale. I notice that he has been joined
here on the floor by Representative Peterson of Pennsylvania, two
people who understand our energy policy specifically and who realize
some of the energy policies that we have been talking about passing on
this floor are going to have a negative effect on people, on real
people.
I wonder if he could spend some time talking about the potential of
oil shale and what it can do. I guess the basic question is, is it
really possible to remove ourselves from a dependency on foreign
sources of energy?
Mr. CANNON. I thank the gentleman. In fact, I paid, I think, $3.09
the last time I bought gas. When I took my daughter, one of my
daughters up to school about 5 years ago, there was a gas war. We had
low prices. It may have been 6 years ago. I paid 75 cents a gallon for
gas and of that 75 cents, 42 cents was tax. We are not paying 42 cents
on a gallon of gas that is over $3.
These are amazing numbers. Why we are there? Well, we are there
because we have had policies that have restricted the development of
oil and gas. There are two things I want to comment on just quickly in
response to that question.
The first is that we have 250 billion tons of coal in America
representing about 6 or 800 billion barrels of gasoline if we did coal-
to-liquids. A lot of people know that we are the Saudi Arabia of the
world for coal, but very few people understand that we have more oil in
our shale that's easily recoverable in Colorado, Wyoming and Utah than
exists in all of Saudi Arabia.
If you look at the more difficult or more expensive to recover from
shale, it's two or three times everything that you have in the Middle
East. If we could just develop the oil that's in our shale, we would do
remarkably well for America.
Let me just give you a sense of this. In other words, think of all
the oil that comes out of Saudi Arabia, all the oil that comes out of
Venezuela, all the oil that comes out of Mexico. We could easily
replace that at a teeny fraction of the oil we have available in shale
in this country. By the way, you asked the question, Mr. Bishop, is it
possible to actually get the oil out of that shale?
Well, the Estonians have been doing it for 60 years. They have been
producing oil out of shale for 60 years. The shale that we have in Utah
is better, has much more oil, and, in fact, in 60 years, we have made
massive progress technologically. The answer is unequivocal. We can do
it.
The Federal Government owns the bulk of this shale. We need to assure
that we can do it quickly without the kind of burdens. Let me just take
a moment to tell you, we have a mine in Utah, it cost $330 million to
develop that mine in 1977. The first thing I did when I came to
Congress was to stop the BLM from spending $50 million to shut that
mine up so it would be, as they said, safe.
We have now released that mine, but it has taken almost 2 years in a
mine that's already developed to get to the point of licensing that so
the people that lease the mine can produce. Their production is based
on a very narrow, limited set of circumstances. We are in the way. The
Federal Government is in the way of energy self-sufficiency for the
United States. The people of America ought to say we want to get out of
the way.
By the way, for the people of America, this body is actually an
interesting place. People do what Americans want us to do. If you want
cheaper oil, tell your Congressman to get with it and help us change
the policies so we can develop our oil, particularly the oil and gas in
the shale in the United States.
I know that Mr. Peterson is going to talk about oil and gas.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. I appreciate it. I hope Mr. Cannon may have a
chance to join us a little bit later.
We are talking about energy policies. It has an impact on people. We
all like alternative forms of energy. That's important. But for the
short term, we have to make life bearable for people. We have some
options without having to rely simply on foreign sources.
Mr. Cannon understands oil shale very well, and he explained how that
is one of our options. Another option we have is natural gas, which is
a forte of Mr. Peterson at the same time. I guess the question has to
be, we understand how high natural gas prices terribly impact citizens
trying to live their lives, heat their homes. They impact the job
market as well. They impact farmers when it comes time for fertilizer.
I guess the question is, can we make domestic natural gas reserves
available so it improves the lives of people?
If I could ask Mr. Peterson to spend a few minutes, 5 minutes or so,
maybe explaining how that part of the energy puzzle can be dealt.
Mr. PETERSON of Pennsylvania. Yes. Natural gas, I call it America's
clean, green energy, no NOX, no SOX, a third of
the CO2. It's almost the perfect fuel. Now, a lot of people
don't realize what all we do with natural gas, but natural gas is the
basic ingredient of many of our products, polymers, plastics,
petrochemical. Everything we manufacture has some form of natural gas
in it or we have used natural gas to do it.
Natural gas is America's hope for the future. I call it the bridge
fuel.
Now, just a few years ago, in fact, 6 years ago, we had $2 natural
gas, and we had $16 oil. Just 6 years later we now have $7 natural gas,
but we haven't had a storm in the gulf yet, we haven't started our
winter heating yet. We know those prices will skyrocket much higher.
Well, it amazes me. I am going to speak a little bit about oil.
$87.50 was the price of oil, that it just closed at. Not a crisis in
this Congress. I haven't heard any rustling of activity. We have a
Senate bill and a House bill not conferenced on yet. I haven't seen
where the House and the Senate have agreed to have their conference
committee and move forward with their bill.
Now, maybe it's a good thing they don't, because let's just look at
it. With the natural gas prices we have today, highest in the world,
here is what their bill does. Their bill locks up 9 trillion feet of
natural gas in the Roan Plateau. The Roan Plateau is a huge, clean
natural gas field in Colorado that was once set aside as the Naval Oil
Shale Reserve in 1912 because of its rich energy resources. That means
that 9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, more than all the natural
gas from the OCS bill that passed last Congress in the gulf, will be
put off-limits.
The Roan Plateau is ready to go. It has already gone through NEPA.
It's ready for lease sale. This provision was not in the original
Resources Committee bill and was added without any hearings in the 11th
hour. That's the kind of legislation this Congress is putting forth to
cause natural gas prices to continue to increase, locks up 18 percent
more by policy changes.
I had some amendments in the energy bill in 2005. This guts the
categoric exclusions if we stop allowing redundant NEPAs to stop the
process. We had leases in the West where they had leased the land for
oil and gas production, and 5, 6 and 7 years later, they are doing
redundant NEPAs.
They had to do a NEPA for the whole layout. Then they had to do a
NEPA for the road construction. Then they had to do a NEPA for every
location. A NEPA study takes about a year. There is no reason that an
overall NEPA on
[[Page H12006]]
the project couldn't cover all those aspects in a year's time and make
sure we do it right. No, we are going to take away that, and that will
lock up more natural gas. Of course, we just heard from our friend
about the 2 trillion barrels of oil from western oil shale.
Well, it's similar to tar sands in Canada. Everybody thought that
wasn't a good thing. Well, they are now producing 1.5 million barrels a
day. Their goal is 4 million a day. They are increasing every month,
because they figured out how to release the tar sand oil, and we need
to be working at releasing the oil shale oil because we have trillions
of barrels there.
Should we have policy? Should we have legislation going that's going
to take oil and gas? Then we go on down here a little further, we are
going to have a $15 billion tax increase on the production of energy
and the processing of it. Does that make sense? That means it is going
to cost American taxpayers $15 billion more for energy somewhere down
the road. Should we be taxing the production of oil and gas? I don't
think so.
There is nothing in the bills before us about coal-to-liquids. We are
the Saudi Arabia of coal. It's a tragedy in America that we are not
moving forward with coal-to-liquid and coal-to-gas, because, you know,
today we are 66 percent dependent on foreign oil, and we are growing 2
percent a year, and we have $87.50, today's closing price. We hit $90 a
few days ago. And just 6 years ago, it was $16. How much can the
American economy absorb without a recession?
I was told by someone from the Department of State that they thought
$75 oil for any length of time would put America in a recession. It
didn't. What some figure is a figure that the American economy can no
longer absorb. Now we are approaching the heating season. Sixty-two
percent of Americans heat their homes with natural gas.
What do we have? We have it locked up. These are all areas that are
locked up. Clean, green natural gas. A natural gas well has never
contaminated a beach. It has never really done major environmental
harm. But, no, America has a policy that we are not going to use the
cleanest, greenest fossil fuel there is, natural gas. We're just not
going to produce it.
I don't understand that, but that's where we are, folks. High gas and
high oil prices are because this Congress, not just this current
Congress, but historically, 26 years ago Presidents and Congress locked
up the outer continental shelf. We are the only country in the world
not to produce it, the only country in the world not to produce.
This is the greatest energy reserves we have. Eleven miles offshore
you don't even know they are there. You don't see it. I have
legislation that says the first 25 miles will not even be open for
drilling. The second 25 miles would be controlled by the State. The
second 50 miles would be open, but States would still have the right to
pass a bill to not produce if they don't want to. That gives States
rights. Then the second 100 miles would be open.
Folks, when we make these decisions to open these up, when we make
the decisions to make any major coal-to-liquid, coal-to-gas, when we
make decisions to reopen nuclear and get it moving again, you are
talking 8 to 10 years before you have any energy.
America is in a crisis today. I think $87.50 oil is a crisis. We have
$7 gas, and we know it's going to spike as soon as we start using our
winter supply. When American homeowners find out the price of home
heating oil, they are going to be pretty angry at Congress, and they
ought to be.
Now, the gas prices that are out today, I heard the gentleman say
$3.09. In my State it's $2.89. But gasoline prices have not caught up
with $80 oil. $80 oil means $3.29, $3.39 gasoline. There is still a
glut of gasoline in the marketplace. This spring we had $3 something
gasoline with $60 oil because there was a shortage of gasoline in the
world.
We buy 20 percent of our gasoline now from Europe. We don't produce
enough in this country. Europe didn't have any to sell us because they
were using more than normal. There was a world shortage and so our
price was much higher than it ought to have been, because it's a
separate marketplace.
Now, just wait till gasoline catches up, the summer fuel burns off.
Our refineries are now making home heating oil, and those on home
heating oil are going to pay a tremendous price because there is none
of that in the system. Those heating with propane are going to pay a
much higher price. Those heating with natural gas are going to pay 10
to 15 percent more. Home heating this winter is going to be very
expensive.
Do you know who even feels the pain worse, small businesses who use a
lot of energy. There are no programs to help them. There is no LIHEAP
funding to help them.
{time} 1715
Small businesses in America are going to struggle to make a profit
because of energy prices. And natural gas, being one of the highest
prices in the world, and we have lots of countries with very cheap
natural gas, we're going to continue to export petrochemical jobs,
polymer and plastic jobs, fertilizer. You know, here we're using
ethanol now, it's big. We have to grow a lot of corn to make ethanol.
We have to use a lot of fertilizer. Seventy percent of the cost of
fertilizer is natural gas. If we make a hydrogen car, it's going to use
natural gas. Natural gas is the feedstock for most of our
manufacturing. It's what we heat our homes with.
We need energy policy here in Congress. We don't want a bill that
takes energy away from Americans. This bill takes energy away from
Americans. This bill makes energy more expensive. The bill before us
does nothing to produce energy and to bring down gasoline prices, to
bring down home heating prices and to keep American jobs here. And
there's no reason that America cannot be in charge of its future
destiny with natural gas.
We can't control the oil market. We can control our natural gas
market. We can be self-dependent. We now import 17 percent of our
natural gas. We wouldn't have to import any of it. America is rich in
natural gas, the clean, green fuel.
And I impose this Congress, natural gas could actually fuel a third
of the auto fleet. It would save a lot more than CAFE standards. And
I'm for better CAFE standards. But it would immediately take all
construction vehicles, school buses, taxicabs could all be on natural
gas. That's a known technology. It's just a conversion.
Folks, clean natural gas is what America needs to be about as we
build our renewable future. All the renewables are built off of natural
gas. Natural gas is the feedstock. Folks, we need clean, natural gas so
Americans can afford to heat their homes and can afford to drive their
cars.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. I appreciate the gentleman from Pennsylvania, who
understands this issue.
Let me see if I can borrow that one you have in your left hand. I'm
not all that hot on a lot of the details of energy and mining, but I am
a school teacher, and I just noticed on the back of this chart is a
chart which goes through the salaries of teachers comparing Wyoming and
Montana. And you find that a step one teacher in Wyoming is
significantly higher than a step four teacher in Montana. And I want to
tell you, there's only one reason for that disparity. Wyoming does more
with their resources to develop them and use them to help fund their
education system. It has all sorts of spin-off effects.
I appreciate the gentleman from Pennsylvania who understands this
concept so significantly and has spoken so eloquently about it.
I'd also like to welcome the gentleman from New Mexico who is here,
who clearly understands the issue of energy significantly.
We will have a potential energy bill before us. We will have next
week a potential mining bill before us, both of which could have some
difficult situations especially as they deal with Americans. So I'd
like to yield to the gentleman from New Mexico to have a chance to talk
for a moment especially on what we are doing, once again, as to our
constituents.
Mr. PEARCE. I thank the gentleman for yielding and appreciate his
leadership on this.
We are discussing extremely important things. For instance, in the
mining bill, which will be coming to the floor, a heated debate really
arises
[[Page H12007]]
about what does it matter. What does it matter if we add an 8 percent
royalty on to the price of minerals?
At one point yesterday in the debate, the chairman of our Resources
Committee, Mr. Rahall of West Virginia, said, I see no reason, no
reason whatsoever why good public land law should be linked to the
gross national product. Now that is, to me, a stunning statement
because I think policy should always consider the jobs in America. It
should consider our standard of living, and it should consider the
ramifications for our communities.
Communities in the West, where mining occurs on public lands, will be
affected most by this new royalty that is being suggested by the
majority party.
Now, we had comments at a field hearing, and we find the comments are
very similar from the Democratic witnesses to the Republican; in other
words, both sides agree. There's a James Otto, ``8 percent is
excessive,'' he says.
``I'm only aware of a single royalty that is as high as the royalty
proposed in the bill, just one in my 20 years of practice. An 8 percent
royalty would really be ruinous,'' says James Cress of Washington on
10/2/07.
``I am particularly concerned about the potential impacts of the 8
percent net smelter return royalty called for in the last legislation.
All the royalty costs will be absorbed by the mining companies, and
this will be a direct adverse impact on the amount of mining tax
revenues that flows into the State and to the counties.''
We had testimony from one country, and I think it was British
Columbia, that increased their royalties and saw a tremendous decrease
in their net tax revenues because companies simply moved out.
Today, companies can move their mining assets; they can move their
mining investments by simply a flick of the computer. If it's that
easy, then we should be very cautious. We should be concerned about the
gross domestic product before we jump into these very significant
arguments.
One of the letters that I have, and I would like, Mr. Speaker, to
submit this as a part of the Record.
House of Representatives,
Committee on Natural Resources,
Washington, DC, October 16, 2007.
Hon. Nick J. Rahall, II,
Chairman, Committee on Natural Resources, House of
Representatives, Washington, DC.
Dear Chairman Rahall: This is to request that the Committee
hold additional hearings regarding our country's mineral
policy as it relates to military and economic security before
we convene a mark-up of H.R. 2262. Notwithstanding the
amendment in the nature of a substitute discussion draft
circulated late last week, we are very concerned that H.R.
2262 moves our country's mineral policy in the very opposite
direction of recommendations outlined in the two recent
National Research Council (``NRC'') reports:
(1) Managing Materials for a 21st Century Military and
(2) Minerals, Critical Minerals and the US. Economy.
We are entering a challenging time for our nation which is
only now beginning to become clear. China and India are
consuming huge amounts of energy and minerals which they are
willing to secure from parts around the globe and with which
they are fueling unprecedented economic growth. At current
rates of relative economic growth, one or both of them will
surpass the United States in economic output within two
decades. We are in a race. Now is not the time to rest. We
must examine closely the consequences. . . . intended and
unintended . . . of our actions. We owe nothing less to our
children's future.
I. Mineral Policy and America's Military Security
One of the most fundamental functions of the Federal
government is to provide for the common defense and our
national minerals policy is inextricably linked to providing
for that defense. It was America's natural resources--and the
ingenuity and strong backs of American workers--that made us
``The Arsenal of Democracy'' that supplied the tools of
victory in World War II. In many ways, minerals are the
foundation to a strong modern military.
Requiring our military to import the strategic and critical
minerals it needs from hostile foreign nations puts our
military on its knees before the battle begins. It will make
the United States military the ``paper tiger'' China's Mao
Zedong wished for in 1956 when he coined the phrase.
Attachment 1 provides examples of strategic and critical
military materials upon which our military already relies on
foreign sources for. If we rush to create a minerals policy
that further discourages a domestic minerals industry that is
already shrinking because of the existing regulatory
constraints, we will have left a grave legacy that is
threatening to our long term stability.
As discussed in the NRC's report, restarting or jump-
starting a U.S. mining operation in response to supply
interruptions would be very time consuming, expensive and in
all probability, impossible. Consequently, the mineral policy
moved by this Committee must take into account military
needs. To this end, we request joint hearings with the House
Armed Services Committee so that this issue can be fully
understood by the Committee.
II. Mineral Policy and America's Economic Security
Mineral availability is a cornerstone to robust economic
activity because minerals support the broadest range of
manufacturing and industrial businesses, including
transportation, defense, aerospace, electronics, energy,
agriculture, communication, construction, and health care.
According to the NRC's report, ``current lifestyles in the
United States require per capita annual consumption of over
25,000 pounds . . . of new minerals . . . to make the items
that we use every day.''
While our reliance on foreign sources of minerals may be
less visible than petroleum, Attachment 2 illuminates the
gravity of America's exposure in this regard. Our country is
rich with minerals; however, the ``political availability''
compromises our independence on foreign sources of minerals.
The NRC's report describes ``political availability'' as a
significant part of mineral availability. The concept of
``political availability'' encompasses (a) legislation, rules
and regulations that influence investment in mineral
exploration and development and (b) the risks and results of
change in these policies. While God has blessed our Nation
with a rich natural resource base, it appears that the common
sense with which He endowed our policy makers has not been
used by its recipients.
We are concerned that H.R. 2262 will adversely affect both
of these ``political availability'' components. We are
unaware of any witness in the three legislative hearings held
by Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources thus far who
testified that H.R. 2262 will increase domestic mining
activity. Rather, several witnesses testified that H.R. 2262,
as drafted, will be devastating to our domestic production of
minerals, will be crippling our economy and will send more
jobs overseas. We believe that moving H.R. 2262 out of this
Committee in advance of an analysis of its impact on the
overall U.S. economy is premature.
ATTACHMENT 1.--EXAMPLE STRATEGIC AND CRITICAL MILITARY MATERIALS AND
FOREIGN IMPORT RELIANCE
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Import
Material metal Uses (percent)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aluminum......................... Aluminum alloys in 44
airplanes, aerospace,
marine applications,
food cans.
Arsenic.......................... Semiconductors, 100
pyrotechnics,
insecticides.
Bismuth.......................... Magnets, nuclear 96
reactors,
thermoelectrics,
ceramic glazes.
Chromium......................... Steels, catalyst, 75
magnetic tape, plating.
Cobalt........................... Specialty steels; medium 81
or high temperature
fuel cells.
Columbium........................ Specialty steels........ 100
Copper........................... Wire, electromagnets, 40
circuit boards,
switches, magnetrons.
Gallium.......................... Optoelectronics, 99
integrated circuits,
dopant, photovoltaics.
Indium........................... Semiconductors, 100
metalorganics, light-
emitting diodes.
Lithium.......................... Batteries............... >50
Magnesium........................ Airplanes, missiles, 54
autos, photography,
pharmaceuticals.
Manganese........................ Specialty steels........ 100
Nickel........................... Specialty steels; 60
superalloys for jet
engine parts.
Platinum......................... Catalytic converters.... 80
Quartz Crystals.................. Electronic and photonic 100
devices (high purity).
Rhenium.......................... Specialty steels; high 87
temperature alloys &
coatings.
Scandium......................... Refractory ceramics, 100
aluminum alloys.
Silicon.......................... Photovoltaics, <50
semiconductors,
microprocessors,
alloys, electronic and
photonic devices.
Strontium........................ Medium or high 100
temperature fuel cells.
Tantalum......................... Specialty steels; 87
electronic capacitors.
Tin.............................. Superconducting magnets, 79
solder, alloys,
electronic circuits.
Tungsten......................... Specialty steels........ 71
[[Page H12008]]
Yttrium.......................... Laser rods, superalloys. 100
Zinc............................. Batteries, galvanizing, 63
paints, metalorganics,
pharmaceuticals.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ National Research Council, Managing Material for a 21st Century
Military and Minerals, Table 4-3.
On page 1 we're referring to two recent National Research Council,
NRC, reports. And one quote is, ``We are entering a challenging time
for our Nation which is only now beginning to become clear. China and
India are consuming huge amounts of energy and minerals which they are
willing to secure from parts around the globe and with which they are
fueling unprecedented economic growth. At current rates of relative
economic growth, one or both of them will surpass the United States in
economic output within 2 decades. We are in a race. Now is not the time
to rest. We must examine closely the consequences, intended and
unintended, of our actions. We owe nothing less to our children's
future.''
In light of this worry by the National Research Council, yesterday I
had an amendment which would have simply required that if we ever are
passed by any country and become the second largest economy in the
world, that the implications of this bill simply be done away with;
that is, that we would begin to do the things that would heal our
economy.
I accept the fact that we could be overestimating the impacts of this
bill that is coming to the floor, the mining legislation. But what I
will not accept is that we have consequences in our economy without
having some way to reverse those impacts.
The Chinese economy doubled gross domestic product in 5 short years.
The combined economies of China and India have tripled in size over the
last decade, and some predict that, at the current rate, the U.S. could
very well become the second largest economy in the world. That's what I
mentioned when we very first started, that the consequences of too
hasty an action here could place our children into a position where
they no longer have the standard of living to where we, as Americans,
begin in a steep decline economically, so that we do not have the hope
and the opportunity for the future which we currently have.
The National Research Council pointed out three ways in which they
are very concerned about the potential ruinous effects. They're
concerned about how much of the minerals that we are going to import.
And again, I would show a chart to my left, that all of these elements
in this picture get minerals that are currently mined in the U.S. Some
are strategic, some are not, but our daily life revolves around
minerals that we get from deep inside the ground. When we acknowledge
that and when we understand where these minerals come from, we might
have a different opinion than just trying to regulate the companies out
of existence. We're going to use these elements whether or not they
come from U.S. mines or not.
My recommendation is that we continue to mine these minerals inside
the United States. Don't transport our jobs. Don't transport our
national security to firms outside. Don't make us subject to another
country to get the minerals which are required for national security
considerations. Please, let's take time before we pass this
legislation. Let's send it back to committee. Let's contemplate the
effects of it.
And I would yield back to the gentleman and thank him greatly.
Mr. BISHOP of Utah. I appreciate the gentleman from New Mexico coming
and talking about these issues, and I think people can realize we feel
very strong and deeply about these particular issues. This is what
happens in our States. We live with this issue all together.
You've heard today about the nature of our forests and what we must
do to have healthy forests in the future. You heard about the impact it
has on school children in those forest counties. But there is a
proposal; it needs to come to the floor that we can debate about that
as well.
You've heard about the significance of payment in lieu of taxes and
what it means to Western States, about oil shale development, natural
gas development, mining development, all of these which have an impact.
Now, I said earlier on, but once again I'm just an old school
teacher. And it does have impacts beyond what we naturally think about.
And I'm thinking specifically about my kids, about my salary, my
retirement as a school teacher and what we do in the future in our
Western States.
We noticed before, this is the chart, the amount of blue is how many,
how much land is owned by the Federal Government in each State. I'd
like you to contrast that, if you would, with this chart. The States in
red are the States that have the most difficult time increasing the
amount of money and paying for their education. The States that are red
have the growth in education but they also have the most difficult time
in adjusting for that growth. And if you look at that and then compare
it once again with the public land States, you'll find an amazing
correlation. The public land States are having the most difficult time
funding their education, and I think there is a relationship to it
which we have yet to fully investigate, and we ought to. It's a subject
for a future time, but it's also one of those things that are important
because there are collateral impacts that are extremely important on
how we actually follow the advice of Daniel Webster up there, which
told us to develop our resources so that we can move this Nation
forward. And this is the time we have to do it. And there are right
ways of doing it and there are probably imprudent ways of doing it.
It's important that we do it the right ways, and we in the West clearly
understand the significance of that.
With that, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate your patience.
____________________