[Congressional Record Volume 151, Number 148 (Wednesday, November 9, 2005)]
[Senate]
[Pages S12602-S12603]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




              FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE BUSINESS MEETING

  Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, on November 1, the Committee on Foreign 
Relations conducted a business meeting to consider several matters.
  The motion to report the nomination of Roland Arnall to be U.S. 
Ambassador to the Netherlands failed on a 9-to-9 tie. The chairman then 
ruled that the nomination was ordered reported by an 8-to-2 vote, which 
reflected the vote of those physically present.
  With all respect to my friend and chairman, Senator Lugar, I disagree 
with his ruling, which negated the proxy votes cast by me and several 
of my colleagues; I believe it to be inconsistent with the rules of the 
Committee on Foreign Relations. So that the record of the proceedings 
at the meeting will be available to all members, I ask unanimous 
consent that the relevant portion of the transcript of that meeting be 
printed in the Record.
  There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in 
the Record, as follows:

  Business Meeting of the Committee on Foreign Relations, U.S. Senate 
                            November 1, 2005

       The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:32 p.m. in Room 
     S-116, The Capitol, Hon. Richard G. Lugar [chairman] 
     presiding.
       Present: Senators Lugar [presiding], Hagel, Chafee, Allen, 
     Coleman, Voinovich, Alexander, Sununu, Murkowski, and 
     Sarbanes.
       Senator Sarbanes. First of all, on the point about filing 
     lawsuits to delay the nomination, there are a number of 
     individual suits that have been brought regarding some of 
     these matters. I don't premise the position I'm taking on 
     that.
       I think in effect a screening process has been done by the 
     State attorneys general, and therefore I think it raises the 
     issue to a much higher level, that these State attorney 
     generals are considering bringing charges in this instance.
       Mr. Arnall asserts that his motto is to do the right thing. 
     That's what we're trying to get him to do in this instance. 
     He owns this company. It's privately held. We had testimony 
     from people that were at the company telling about how 
     intimately he was in its activities, how much he's essential 
     to the sort of direction and the drive, the vitality of the 
     company.
       He does have an impressive life story and I alluded to that 
     in the course of the hearing and said as much.
       But you've got a real problem here in terms of these 
     practices, and Mr. Arnall ought to resolve this matter in my 
     opinion before he goes off to the Netherlands in order to 
     assume this ambassadorship.
       The Chairman. Well, the committee will now vote on the 
     nomination. I will ask the Clerk to call the roll.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Hagel.
       Senator Hagel. No.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Chafee.
       Senator Chafee. Aye.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Allen.
       Senator Chafee. Aye.

[[Page S12603]]

       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Coleman.
       Senator Coleman. Aye.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Voinovich.
       Senator Voinovich. Aye.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Alexander.
       Senator Alexander. Aye
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Sununu.
       Senator Sununu. Aye.
       Ms. Oursler. Ms. Murkowski.
       Senator Murkowski. Aye.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Martinez.
       The Chairman. Votes aye by proxy.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Biden.
       Senator Sarbanes. No by proxy.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Sarbanes.
       Senator Sarbanes. No.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Dodd.
       Senator Sarbanes. No by proxy.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Kerry.
       Senator Sarbanes. No by proxy.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Feingold.
       Senator Sarbanes. No by proxy.
       Ms. Oursler. Mrs. Boxer.
       Senator Sarbanes. No by--I'll pass for the moment.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Nelson.
       Senator Sarbanes. No by proxy.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Obama.
       Senator Sarbanes. No by proxy.
       Ms. Oursler. Mr. Chairman.
       The Chairman. Aye.
       Senator Sarbanes. Boxer, no by proxy.
       The Chairman. The Clerk will please report the vote.
       Ms. Oursler. The vote is nine to nine.
       The Chairman. Now let me make certain that the committee 
     knows what the reporting requirement is, because I'll ask the 
     Clerk then to give the report on members physically present. 
     Our rule says ``No nomination can be reported unless a 
     majority of the committee members are physically present. The 
     vote of the committee to report a measure or matter shall 
     require the concurrence of a majority of those members who 
     are physically present at the time the vote is taken.''
       Now, what is the vote among those who are physically 
     present?
       Ms. Oursler. Of those physically present, eight voted in 
     favor of the nomination and two voted against.
       The Chairman. Now, the chair believes that Rule 4[c] on 
     reporting would indicate that in this particular instance the 
     nomination be forwarded to the full Senate. But that is--I 
     ask those who may have question about that to refer to Rule 4 
     on quorums and [c] on reporting.
       Senator Sarbanes. Mr. Chairman, as I read this rule, in 
     order to report it out you will need a majority physically 
     present, but that doesn't vitiate the proxies voted against. 
     The rule makes no reference to that and those proxies are 
     valid, and therefore we wouldn't--the vote is not carried. 
     This applies of you to try to use proxies to constitute the 
     majority for reporting it out, but it doesn't apply to the 
     use of proxies to negate reporting it out, I respectfully 
     submit to you, and I think that's a fair reading of the rule. 
     And that's the way we've done it here in the past.
       The Chairman. Well, that is an important reading, but the 
     chair believes that the reading at least gives credence at 
     least to my interpretation, which is that a majority of those 
     voting and physically present, given the fact a majority was 
     here to create the quorum, would lead to a favorable 
     decision.
       Senator Sarbanes. Well, I think we need to sort this out. I 
     make the point of order a quorum is not present.
       The Chairman. Well, a quorum is not present, but the quorum 
     was present at the time of the vote and that is what is 
     required, and the chair declared that the vote was in favor 
     of reporting this nomination to the Senate floor.
       Senator Sarbanes. On what basis is the chairman reaching 
     that conclusion?
       The Chairman. On the basis that we had a quorum and that a 
     majority of those physically present voted in favor of the 
     nominee.
       Senator Sarbanes. But the majority of the committee didn't 
     do that. In fact the vote here was a tie vote.
       The Chairman. Counting in the proxies.
       Senator Sarbanes. It was a tie vote. Yes, it was a tie 
     vote.
       You can't bring it out with proxies. The chairman--what 
     this rule is designed to do is the chairman can't come in 
     with a bunch of proxies in his hands and then on the basis of 
     that bring a measure out of the committee. You can be called 
     on that in terms of having a majority.
       The Chairman. I appreciate the point the chair is making--
     rather, the Senator is making. I believe that my 
     interpretation is correct and I would just indicate that that 
     at least is what is going to occur. Now, the member may think 
     of a means for appealing that in some fashion.
       Senator Sarbanes. Think what?
       The Chairman. Of a means of appealing my decision. But for 
     the time being, my decision is that we had a vote and we have 
     reported the nominee.
       Senator Sarbanes. Well, I think it's an abuse of the rules 
     and I want to state that to the chairman.
       The Chairman. I understand.
       Senator Sarbanes. Absolutely.
       The Chairman. I thank the members of the committee.
       [Whereupon, at 3.07 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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