[Congressional Record Volume 151, Number 80 (Thursday, June 16, 2005)]
[Senate]
[Pages S6718-S6721]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
STATEMENTS REGARDING GUANTANAMO
Mr. KYL. Madam President, one of the things I remember that my father
taught me--and it has stood me in good stead, though I have not always
followed the advice--is to have strong convictions but always to deal
in moderation and be reasonable in your approach, to listen to other
people and try to be responsible in what you say. In all things,
moderation would have applied to the advice he gave me frequently.
Again, not to say one should not have strong views, but you can be more
effective in communicating those views if you treat people decently, if
you listen to what they have to say, and if you express your own views
with a degree of humility and moderation. That is something that, sad
to say, even in my relatively short time in the Congress, I have seen
adhered to, sadly, less and less.
Certainly, the Senator from West Virginia sets a standard for all of
us in the way that he treats this body, the revere he has for the
institution and, therefore, the care he takes to deal in this body in
an appropriate and responsible way, in the great tradition of the body.
I mention that because the coarsening of our language, I suppose, can
be expected to be manifested first in the political environment. It
certainly has occurred with increasing intensity over the years,
though, not just in political campaigns but even on the floor of the
Senate and engaged in by colleagues in the Congress as well as pundits
and others.
Strong subjects sometimes evoke strong emotions, and perhaps that
explains why some of the rhetoric surrounding the discussion of our
detention of enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay has reached such a
high-pitched level, to such a high degree of hyperbole and
exaggeration--I daresay, in some cases, irresponsible
characterizations.
If this were simply a matter of political rhetoric and partisan
politics, I suppose that in some senses it could be excused, though it
is not helpful. But here the consequences of such language, this over-
the-top kind of rhetoric, can actually be detrimental to the effort of
the United States that all of us support--certainly to the people we
put in harm's way, our men and women in the military, and the other
services that are helping us to fight the war on terror.
This is why it distresses me to hear the characterizations of
American activities and Americans as being equated with some of the
worst actors in the history of mankind--phrases thrown around,
apparently, somewhat thoughtlessly, without due regard for the
consequences, when enemies of the United States seize on the flimsiest
of things to take to the streets and riot and kill each other.
The unfortunate reporting of Newsweek Magazine--which turned out not
to be true--regarding desecration of the Holy Koran caused Muslims in
the world--thousands and thousands--to riot and cause harm to each
other. I believe there were at least three deaths that resulted, if I
am not mistaken. Words have consequences, and when Americans speak in
irresponsible terms about the actions of Americans who are simply
trying to do their best in trying circumstances, in ways that denigrate
their motives, denigrate their actions, and that call into question the
entire character of America, because of these actions, it is
irresponsible. And it should not be engaged in, especially it should
not be countenanced by Members of this body or the Congress, certainly
not engaged in by leaders in this body. Yet, sad to say, we all have
heard in the last few days this kind of language.
I will get back to that in a moment. Let me go back and try to
provide some perspective about this entire debate about Guantanamo Bay.
Guantanamo Bay is a place where the United States Government has had
a lease from the Cuban Government for a long time and spent about $150
million to build a prison facility to house many of the people who had
been detained in the war on terrorism, primarily people who were on the
battlefield in Afghanistan, there being no facilities adequate in
Afghanistan.
It is a place that was designed to be able to accommodate people of
different cultures. It is significantly managed by Americans who have a
significant degree of medical background and training in the culture of
Islam in order to ensure that the people there are treated as humanely
as possible under the circumstances and with due regard for not only
their human rights but their faith as well.
This country need apologize to no one in the way that over the years
we have tried to adhere to human rights standards and treat people of
faith appropriately. Certainly the stories--and I say ``stories''
because in most cases, they are mere allegations that are untrue--of
treatment of people at Guantanamo Bay have raised the interest of
Americans because we are a people who instinctively pull back from such
kind of conduct. We do not want to be even against terrorists engaged
in inhumane activity. That is why these stories have such resonance.
Yet this facility, which takes care of these people in some respects
even better than the troops there--in terms of the sleeping quarters,
meals, and so on--this facility is as good, I think, as any prisoner of
war facility in recent memory and certainly with the attention of the
media, the International Red Cross, visits by American officials--there
have been thousands of visits. It is a very wide open facility in that
sense.
[[Page S6719]]
With all of this attention, I think the very small number of specific
complaints that have been investigated and found to have any merit at
all--something like five in number--is a testament to the commitment of
the United States to adhere to standards of decency and humanity when
dealing with people.
Who are these people? These are the worst of the worst. We do not
have the time or the ability to round up people and hold them for the
sake of it. It is too costly. Over 10,000 people have been captured in
this war against the terrorists. Something like 520 are at Guantanamo
Bay. These are the people who are the bombmakers, the bodyguards of
Osama bin Laden, the financiers, the plotters, the people who have been
sent out to be assassins, to be suicide bombers. These are the worst of
the worst, the killers who, if let go, will return to their killing.
Since the detentions at Guantanamo Bay, the United States Supreme
Court has said there is one right that these detainees have, and that
is a right to have their status determined, even through a habeas
corpus petition, which in the United States means a right to have
questioned the appropriateness of your being detained. The Supreme
Court did not hold they have a right to a trial, that they have a right
to be charged with anything, that they have a right to a particular
kind of legal proceeding. Simply, they have a right to have their
status reviewed by an appropriate tribunal.
And since then, their status has been reviewed, every one of them.
There is a process by which it is reviewed annually to determine
whether they not only are still appropriately held, but whether they
need to be held, whether they pose a threat.
In this period of time, a dozen of these detainees--many were
released, something like 200, as I recall--a dozen have already been
recaptured on the battlefield. They went right back to killing
Americans.
This is why prisoners of war are detained when captured, and it has
thus been throughout modern history. In World War II, for example, we
have all seen the movies and read about the internment camps of Germans
and Japanese and, of course, the way Americans were held as POWs as
well. With the rare exception of the people at the very top of the Nazi
Government and a few of the Nazi generals, the German POWs were not
charged with crimes or tried for those crimes. They were simply held in
these camps until the end of the war.
A couple of these camps were in Arizona. I know an Arizona physician
who went through one of these camps, I believe in Nebraska. When he got
out, he decided he liked America a whole lot and became a renowned
physician in Phoenix. These were places that people were held until the
end of the war so they could not go back to fighting against Americans.
That is precisely the primary purpose of Guantanamo Bay.
For the worst of the worst, the people we do not want to go back
fighting against us or committing terror against anyone else, we have
to have a place to detain them.
I must say, in a debate with the senior Senator from Vermont last
night on television--and he and I disagreed generally about this
issue--he acknowledged this is not about Guantanamo Bay. As he said, we
have to have a place to hold these people, and I agree with that
proposition. Some have even suggested we close this brand-new facility.
If you close it, where are you going to put them? Would you like to
take one of the military bases that is being closed in your State and
make it available for these detainees? Maybe that is the place to
detain them. I do not think so.
The issue is not closing Guantanamo Bay. I think it is, frankly,
criticism of the American Government and leaders of the American
Government. Some people do it for partisan political purposes. Others
do it, to bring down certain people. Others, frankly, have a disregard
for this country and are quick to criticize almost anything we do.
But look at some of the specific charges. One of them is these people
are being held in limbo. They are not being held in limbo any more than
any other prisoner of war or enemy combatant has been held in the past.
They are being held until the conflict is over so they do not go back
to fighting us again.
Then they demand to know of the general and admiral who were before
the Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday when we held a hearing on
this: Well, how long are they going to be detained? We demand to know.
We do not know how long the war is going to last, Senator. I demand to
know. Will it be forever? What if the war lasts for forever, will they
be detained forever?
These are pretty silly questions, if you ask me. We do not want to
detain these people. We would like not to have to do it. We would like
to bring the war to a close, but until it is safe to release them, they
are not going to be released, not unless we are going to jeopardize the
service people and others who are subject to terrorism. So let's get
back to reason and solid logic here.
Another question is, Why are we treating these people possibly a
little bit differently than other prisoners of wars have been treated?
The answer is they are not prisoners of war. That does not mean we do
not treat them humanely and in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.
That is another charge, that we violated the Geneva Conventions. No,
we have not. No, we have not. The United States adheres to the Geneva
Conventions, and we have not violated them, and we do not intend to.
Enemy combatants are not entitled to the protection of the Geneva
accords to which prisoners of war are entitled.
The reason for the Geneva accords for the POWs is we want to reward
people who adhere to the laws of war. What does that mean? They fight
for a country, they wear the uniform of that country, they adhere
themselves to the rules of war. In the case of terrorists, that does
not apply. They do not fight for a country, they fight for a cause.
They do not wear a uniform. They do not fight by the rules of war. They
kill innocent people indiscriminately. That is their modus operandi.
That is their preferred action.
That is why they are enemy combatants, not prisoners of war. So we
would not have to accord them any standards of treatment except that we
are the United States of America and we say, and the President has said
and Secretary Rumsfeld and everyone else in the Government has said,
for the United States of America it is inappropriate to do anything
less than treat people humanely, and we will not violate the Geneva
accords.
So even though they are not entitled to all of the rights of
prisoners of war, there are standards of treatment that have been
established and have been adhered to. In the few situations in which
there is an allegation that maybe those standards might have been
violated in some small way, the people have been held responsible who
have violated the standards. I think there have been five cases of
dealing inappropriately with the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, not having
both hands on it at once or not having a white glove when dealing with
a prisoner. It is that kind of violation.
This kind of thing has been compared by some to Pol Pot and Nazi
Germany and the Soviet gulag and the human rights abuses that the
United Nations complains about each year. These comparisons are not
apt. They are not responsible. They are not appropriate. They do not
even begin to appropriately describe the kind of conduct that our
people have engaged in and the crimes against humanity that were
referred to. To even think of them in the same sense is unthinkable.
What about the question about charging them? There is a suggestion
they should either be charged or released. Well, this is not a fishing
contest. This is not catch and release. This is serious. This is war.
When somebody is trying to kill you and you can detain them, you do it.
The alternative is, obviously, you kill them. But hopefully you do not
have to kill them; you can detain them, and you can put them in a place
that, until the end of the war, is safe for them and safe for you.
For those who have committed war crimes, we have the option of
charging them with such crimes, and there is a special tribunal set up
to try them for those crimes, and they can be tried. Now, there are
cases in the courts of appeal right now that are helping to define the
parameters of those trials and until that is very clear those will not
proceed, but that is the way we will deal with those cases.
[[Page S6720]]
So for those that can be tried, obviously we will do that, but that
is a very small percentage. There is no point in charging prisoners of
war or enemy combatants with anything because the whole point of their
being held is to prevent them from going back to war against you.
The final purpose for this detention is intelligence gathering. We
have found that human intelligence is the best intelligence and that
the highest percentage of human intelligence is the interrogation that
has occurred here and elsewhere that has led us to learn a lot about
the techniques of the terrorists, their plans, the names of others, and
other important information that has helped us save lives. So the point
of this detention is to save lives, to keep people from killing us, and
to get information that will help us to prevent future killing. That is
an appropriate purpose of Guantanamo.
So when people use irresponsible language, when they seem to leap to
conclude that the United States must have done wrong simply because a
lawyer or some group or a prisoner has alleged abuse--and by the way,
remember that the al-Qaida training includes a manual instruction on
how to allege that they are being abused as a prisoner, as a detainee.
They are supposed to allege abuse, and they do. So let us not jump to
the conclusion that any al-Qaida terrorist who alleges abuse at
Guantanamo Bay must be right and all of the Americans, from the
President on down, must be wrong. I like to put my chances on Americans
trying to do the right thing. We will make mistakes, but we will try to
correct those mistakes and punish those responsible. In the meantime, I
think the benefit of the doubt goes to those people whom we have given
a very hard job to do.
To get back to my original point, the use of irresponsible language,
irresponsible charges, has consequences. It can hurt those people that
we put in harm's way by turning international public opinion against
the United States. When responsible American officials make
irresponsible charges, all the world listens. When they listen,
sometimes they react very badly. It does our cause no good when--as
some of my colleagues have said, this is all about winning the hearts
and minds of the Muslim world. There is a great deal of truth in that.
It does no good in that battle to denigrate our own actions in a way
that is calculated to or one must know will inflame the passions of
terrorists and others around the world that support the terrorists. It
does no good to this ultimate goal of winning hearts and minds to
unduly criticize America, Americans and American leaders for actions
that are nothing more than what any Nation has the right to do when it
captures people who have been engaged in combat or terrorism against
it.
I urge my colleagues to keep this issue in perspective, to understand
the reason we detain people, to understand the impact of irresponsible
language, to tone down the rhetoric, understand that the President and
all acting on his behalf are trying their very best to do what we want
them to do, and at the end of the day, this is all about winning the
war on terror, saving American lives and moving on to a more peaceful
world.
Mr. FRIST. Madam President, in the past few weeks a number of
allegations have been leveled against the Guantanamo Bay detention
center.
There have been some legitimate questions about the treatment of
detainees, which is fair and responsible. The United States is governed
by the rule of law. And it is proper for the Congress, in its oversight
role, to ask the executive branch about such matters and make sure the
interests of our constituents and the Nation are being properly
addressed.
That being said, in many cases, the allegations that have been made
recently have been false, distorted or misreported.
Newsweek, as we are all too familiar, erroneously reported that an
American guard flushed a Koran down a toilet. That report, which was
later withdrawn, resulted in widespread protests and the deaths of
several individuals.
When the facts came out, we learned that, in the 3 years that Gitmo
has been in operation, there have only been 5 cases of ``mishandling''
of the Koran by our military staff.
In those few instances where mistakes were made--and people do make
mistakes--they were corrected and persons were held accountable.
We also learned that the prisoners themselves had abused the Koran 15
times, in some cases, reportedly, to implicate our soldiers in a
religious crime.
Multiple inquiries have found that the detainees at Guantanamo are
being treated in accordance with the Geneva Conventions and U.S. law.
They are well fed and well housed. They have access to clean showers,
Muslim chaplains, and even psychological counseling if they request it.
Some might say they are living in more luxury and safety than our
soldiers and marines fighting the terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Our service men and women in the field usually eat cold, packaged
meals; sleep in crude living areas without beds; and often wonder if
they will live to see the next day, all in the cause of promoting
freedom and democracy and defending our country.
One thing is for sure, the detainees are enemy combatants who were
picked up off the battlefields of Afghanistan and elsewhere. They are
hardened terrorists and have pledged their lives to jihad, the death of
Americans, and the destruction of our country.
They are being held at Guantanamo so they don't kill more Americans,
either at home or abroad.
They are being held at Guantanamo so that we can question them, so
that we can prevent their colleagues from committing more terrorist
acts.
The intelligence we have learned about the terrorists, their
networks, their plans, and so on, has been a treasure trove that has
saved lives and is helping us win the war on terror.
Personally, I am convinced that Guantanamo is humanely and fairly
serving its much needed purpose. And I am also convinced that if we
closed the camp, it wouldn't make one bit of difference to the
terrorists who hate us and murdered 3,000 innocent American citizens
before Guantanamo or the war on terror was ever conceived of.
And it will make no difference to those who have agitated and
protested against American policy from the very start.
We can debate whether Guantanamo helps us save lives and win the war
on terror. But what I can't stomach are the comparisons being made
between Guantanamo and some of the most egregious symbols in the
history of mankind.
I am referring to the remarks of Amnesty International officials that
compared the U.S.-run Guantanamo to the Soviet gulag.
I am referring to the International Committee of the Red Cross
official who reportedly compared U.S. soldiers to Nazis.
And, regrettably, I am referring to a Senate colleague who, this
week, called Guantanamo a ``death camp'' and drew parallels to Hitler's
Germany, Stalin's gulags, and Pol Pot's killing fields.
This was a heinous slander against our country, and against the brave
men and women who have taken great care to treat the captured
terrorists with more respect than they would ever have received in any
point in human history.
It is reported that nearly 9 million people were killed by Adolf
Hitler; about 20.7 million were killed in the soviet gulags from 1929-
1953; and over 1.5 million people were killed in Cambodia from 1975 to
1979.
And there is no need to recount the brutal torture and manner in
which many of these people died, most of whom, if not all, were
innocent people.
Do we know how many people have been killed at Guantanamo? Zero.
That's right: zero people.
And yet we have members of this body who have come to the Senate
floor to level the most egregious charges, compare our troops to Nazis,
and charge the United States with crimes against humanity. To accuse
our sons and daughters, who are serving proudly to keep killers from
the battlefield, with committing genocide and war crimes is beyond the
pale.
It is wrong to make these comparisons; it is wrong to suggest such
things. It is unfair to our military; it is unfair to the American
people; and it is unfair to this body. This is wrong and it is the
worst form of demagoguery.
It is anti-American and only fuels the animus of our enemies who are
constantly searching for ways to portray
[[Page S6721]]
our great country and our people as anti-Muslim, anti-Arab. It is this
type of language that they use to recruit others to be car bombers;
suicide attackers; hostage takers, and full-fledged jihadists.
It is darkly ironic that those who want to close Guantanamo for the
sake of public diplomacy are themselves wreaking great damage to our
public diplomacy by floating outlandish and slanderous allegations.
It has to stop. We can, and should, have serious debates about
legitimate policy questions. But comparing our Nation, our Government
and our military to the regimes of Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Soviet
Russia, and Pol Pot's Cambodia is the height of irresponsibility.
Frankly, I think it demands an apology to our service men and women,
and to all others in our Government who are working hard every day to
stop the terrorists, prevent attacks on our homeland, and to win the
war on terrorism.
We are fighting a war. And young men and women are out in the field,
risking their lives. For their sake, the toxic rhetoric must stop.
____________________