[Congressional Record Volume 149, Number 145 (Thursday, October 16, 2003)]
[House]
[Pages H9489-H9491]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




EXPRESSING SENSE OF HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES THAT FRANCE, GERMANY, AND 
RUSSIA CAN BEST CONTRIBUTE TO RECONSTRUCTION OF IRAQ BY FORGIVENESS OF 
                            OUTSTANDING DEBT

  Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the 
Committee on International Relations be discharged from further 
consideration of the resolution (H. Res. 198) expressing the sense of 
the House of Representatives that France, Germany, and Russia can 
initially best contribute to the reconstruction of Iraq by the 
forgiveness of outstanding debt between both Iraq and France, Iraq and 
Germany, and Iraq and Russia, and ask for its immediate consideration 
in the House.
  The Clerk read the title of the resolution.

                              {time}  1030

  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Thornberry). Is there objection to the 
request of the gentlewoman from Florida?
  Mr. COLE. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object, and I shall not 
object, I rise to support this important resolution, H. Res. 198.
  (Mr. COLE asked and was given permission to revise and extend his 
remarks.)
  Mr. COLE. Mr. Speaker, this resolution encourages France, Germany, 
Russia and other countries to forgive the debt owed to them by Saddam 
Hussein's regime; to make generous pledges for Iraq's reconstruction at 
the forthcoming Madrid donor conference; to work with the Paris Club on 
debt forgiveness issues for Iraq; to acknowledge the role that Iraq's 
current debt has in hindering reconstruction efforts; and to educate 
their populace about the importance of debt forgiveness in Iraq's 
reconstruction.
  France, Germany, Russia and other countries have all been vocal about 
opening up Iraq's reconstruction contracts. If they wish to participate 
in this process, they should have the generosity and decency to 
contribute positively to the reconstruction effort by forgiving the 
debts.
  Mr. Speaker, it is unconscionable for nations to expect the Iraqi 
people to repay the debts contracted by the terrorist and despotic 
regime of Saddam Hussein, particularly when those people were in part 
the victims of that regime and had no say in the loans in question. H. 
Res. 198 will assist the public debate in these issues going into the 
Madrid conference of donors and will put this House on record for 
supporting debt forgiveness on this significant issue.
  Mr. Speaker, America's given its most sacred resource, the lives and 
blood of its soldiers, as well as billions of dollars, in order to rid 
Iraq of Saddam Hussein and begin the difficult task of reconstruction. 
It is only right that other nations should forgive their debt and begin 
to participate in the process.
  Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my reservation of objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentlewoman from Florida?
  Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the right to object. This is a 
good bill if it came up at any other time, but today, it serves a 
unique purpose, and that is, to deal with the great debate that is the 
big issue that will come up today as the gentleman from California (Mr. 
Rohrabacher) pointed out. That issue is whether the $18 billion, not to 
rebuild Iraq but to build Iraq as it has never been built before, 
whether that money will go in the form of a loan or some other 
collateralized instrument, perhaps an advance payment on the purchase 
of oil, or whether, instead, it will go as a gift.
  What are we told? We are told that we cannot make it a loan because 
the Iraqi balance sheet is already in such terrible shape. I would 
first point out that the American balance sheet is not in great shape 
either, and we will be adding $500 billion to the debt side of that 
just this year.
  But why is the Iraqi balance sheet in bad shape? It is in bad shape 
because Saddam borrowed $100 billion, and the people who hold the 
promissory notes signed by Saddam want to be paid, and for reasons I 
cannot figure out, the administration feels it is a critical national 
priority that those who lent money to Saddam get repaid. Promissory 
notes were signed by Adolf Hitler; they were not repaid. Promissory 
notes were signed by the Imperial Government of Japan; they were not 
repaid. Why is it that this administration believes that we cannot 
burden Iraq with $18 billion in debt because we must preserve their 
ability to pay the $100 billion of debt that Saddam Hussein borrowed?
  Follow the money. Because in 2008 and 2010 and 2012, Iraq, a country 
with the second largest oil reserves in the world, will be exporting 
more oil than it needs, the revenue to finance its ongoing operations. 
It will be able to pay debt service. It has collateral. That is why 
these folks lent Saddam $100 billion. It will have that money.
  Where will that money go? If none of it comes to us, the first 
claimant for $25 billion is Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are not content 
with the revenue from their own oil. They want $25 billion to be paid 
by the new Iraq because they have a loan made to the old Iraq. Who is 
second? Kuwait is in for only $17 billion, except they claim that they 
are also owed reparations for the invasion. Okay. That is interesting. 
The new Iraq should pay for the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam.
  So we are told by the Kuwaitis that not only, not only did we have to 
spend our treasure and our blood to liberate them, not only do they 
have more oil than one can imagine per capita, but that they should 
have a high claim on Iraqi oil and that the American taxpayer should be 
at the back of the line.
  I would say that we must do more today than give $18 billion to Iraq 
and then have this resolution saying, oh, please, pretty please, these 
other creditors should forgive their debts. First of all, the 
resolution identifies as the main creditors France and Germany and 
Russia when, in fact, the major creditors of Saddam are Saudi Arabia 
and Kuwait.
  Second, they do not have to forgive the loan. What incentive do they 
have? It is not like we are saying forgive your loan and this will 
happen or we will make our efforts contingent upon yours, but rather, 
today, we are going to be asked to give $18 billion to Iraq to 
eliminate any possibility of adding an incentive for others to forgive 
their debt to enshrine the debt signed by Saddam while denigrating the 
American taxpayer.
  We will be talking about more of this in the rest of today, but no 
one should believe that the passage of H. Res. 198, a mere plea to the 
wrong people that they forgive debt that they have no intention of 
forgiving so that we can give away American taxpayer dollars, that we 
do not have to give away, this is the smallest fig leaf for the biggest 
problem.
  Mrs. MALONEY. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. SHERMAN. I yield to the gentlewoman from New York.
  (Mrs. MALONEY asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Mrs. MALONEY. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding, and I 
rise in support of the resolution and thank the gentleman from Oklahoma 
(Mr. Cole) for his work.
  This resolution is a good start but I believe the House must do more 
to promote debt relief for Iraq. The sense of Congress states that 
France, Germany and Russia should recognize the role that Iraq's 
current debt could play in hindering its reconstruction. I strongly 
agree with this language but we should move beyond France, Germany and 
Russia on this issue.
  While total debt figures are difficult to gather, Representative 
Coalition Director Paul Bremer has put the number at roughly $200 
billion, and actually, the debt of France, Germany and Russia is just a 
fraction of the total debt. Russia's estimated to be owed between $9 
and $12 billion. The amount of Iraq's debt to France ranges from $1.7 
to $4 billion and Germany is owed $4 billion. Iraq owes its neighboring 
countries far, far more money than it does Germany and Russia and over 
$4 billion is owed to the United States.

[[Page H9490]]

  Together with the gentleman from Iowa (Mr. Leach) I have introduced a 
bill, the Iraq Freedom from Debt Act, and this legislation would 
require the U.S. representatives at the IMF and World Bank to vote 
within these highly influential international financial institutions to 
reduce the debt owed to Iraq.
  The IMF and World Bank are owed roughly $150 million, and together 
with the U.S., these institutions are working with the international 
community on the donor conference to reduce Iraq's debt.
  As my colleague pointed out, the neighboring countries of Saudi 
Arabia and Kuwait owe much much more. Just this past weekend in Qatar, 
the foreign minister indicated the $1.5 billion owed to Qatar, they 
would negotiate relief in that debt. Much of this debt was odious debt 
to build palaces for Saddam Hussein, and certainly the people of Iraq 
should not be saddled with having to repay it.
  I will put the balance of my remarks in the record in the interest of 
time.
  Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. Speaker, further reserving the right to object, I am 
going to yield to my colleague from Texas, but let me point out one use 
of this $18 billion.
  Two billion dollars of it is going to go to build new oil wells and 
oil facilities in Iraq. This will be the first time in history that we 
invest $2 billion in oil drilling, hit oil and get nothing. Why do we 
need these $2 billion of additional oil wells and oil facilities? So 
that Iraq can produce more oil, so they can sell that oil, so it can 
give the money to Saudi Arabia. What a great deal for the American 
taxpayer.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. SHERMAN. I yield to the gentlewoman from Texas.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I will take just a brief 
moment to bring this point to the table.
  This is a meritorious resolution if we had had a consensus and a 
collaboration with France and Germany and Russia on how they would 
participate in the overall rebuilding of Iraq, but I do believe, as my 
colleague from California has indicated, that this is only sort of a 
stopgap or sort of a distraction from the overall massive debate of how 
outrageous the $87 billion is, and I will just say this, Mr. Speaker, 
and then I will yield back.
  Right now, the $87 billion in comparison to the Marshall Plan will 
generate about $900 per Iraqi, per Iraqi, if we were to give that 
amount of money. That is a far cry from the amount of money that was 
generated on behalf of those during the Marshall Plan when there were 
16 countries involved, and even though it was in those dollars, it was 
somewhere around $200 per capita.
  This would be a good resolution if we had had a cooperation or 
collaboration or agreement with our allies on how they would 
participate in the rebuild, but right now we are sort of making a 
statement to those who are actually not going to listen.
  Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my reservation of objection, 
noting that another gentleman from California may also wish to object.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentlewoman from Florida?
  Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object, let me 
note that I support H. Res. 198, and I commend the author for trying to 
do something.
  I would note to the gentleman from California (Mr. Sherman) that a 
fig leaf is better than no leaf at all, and this is a step, a very 
small step in the right direction that focuses on the debt forgiveness 
and how important that is that we do not keep a mill stone around 
Iraq's neck, and the people of Iraq, they are going to be democratic.
  If they are going to have the stable society, they cannot have this 
massive debt hanging around their neck that was left them by Saddam 
Hussein. These are debts that were given to Saddam Hussein, loans that 
were given to him by these major financial international partners, for 
example, the Saudis and certainly German and French banks. We should 
not be saying that they have to repay these loans because no matter how 
much money we give them or how much is in the donor's conference, they 
will never prosper with these loans around their neck.
  We tried this with Russia and we tried this with Eastern Europe. We 
insisted that they repay the debts of the Communist-era debts, and it 
created chaos and undercut progress in that part of the world for 10 
years. We cannot afford that with Iraq.
  So I support H. Res. 198, but the gentleman from California (Mr. 
Sherman) was absolutely correct when he said this is only part of the 
major debate which is should the $18.6 billion that we are going to 
provide as reconstruction money go to Iraq as loans or go to Iraq as a 
gift. The reason why they are saying it must be a gift is because of 
these loans that these big bankers made to Saddam Hussein when he was 
in power. That is no excuse at all. We should not be protecting the 
validity of $100 billion for the loans to Saddam Hussein from these 
heavy international financial institutions by giving our money away. We 
are borrowing this money, this reconstruction money, $18.6 billion 
because we are in deficit spending, and we are expecting our children 
to pay it back rather than to have the Iraqi children pay it back when 
they are on their feet 10 or 20 years from now, when they are the 
biggest oil producer in the world. We are going to end up paying it 
back rather than them paying it back. It makes no sense at all.
  So I would ask my colleagues to make sure that they pay close 
attention to the Rohrabacher amendment which makes sure that this will 
be a loan to Iraq and not a grant and a gift or a giveaway. With that, 
I support H. Res. 198.
  Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Mr. Speaker, on a day when we are posed to debate 
the Emergency Supplemental for Iraq and Afghanistan, it is critical 
that we call on France, Germany, Russia and other nations, to 
contribute to Iraq's reconstruction, including by making generous 
pledges at the Madrid Donors' Conference.
  It is a matter of fairness and equity. Many of these nations are 
starting to benefit from a free, liberated Iraq. Their companies will 
reap financial windfalls from reconstruction efforts. Yet, they expect 
the U.S. and a small group of nations, to bear the financial burden.
  France, Germany, and Russia, in particular, should be called upon to 
match the generous commitment from countries such as Japan which, 
despite suffering from a severe fiscal situation, has pledged more than 
$1.5 billion for the immediate reconstruction needs of Iraq.
  These countries and all of the creditor nations to Iraq should 
provide debt relief, that will enable the Iraqi people and a future 
freely-elected government, to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure and 
industries which deteriorated so severely during the brutal regime of 
Saddam Hussein.
  Were it not for the ongoing commercial relations and close links 
between the governments and companies of France, Germany, and Russia 
and the Hussein regime, the Iraqi people would not be confronted with 
$21 billion in debt to 19 creditor nations. The Iraqi people and their 
new leaders should not be held responsible for the corruption and 
mismanagement of the Hussein regime.
  The Iraqi people did not have a say in any of the policies or 
decisions of the Hussein regime. They were victims in their own 
homeland. Therefore, it is critical that they not be punished or made 
to pay for the actions of their oppressor.
  We call upon France, Germany, and Russia to acknowledge this reality 
and make amends for the role they played in prolonging the existence of 
the Hussein regime and, in turn, the suffering of the Iraqi people.
  Through the resolution we are considering today, we call upon these 
three nations to make a public commitment to debt reduction in the 
meeting of Paris Club creditors. We further ask them, and all nations, 
to make generous pledges for Iraq's reconstruction.
  We hope they will answer this call.
  I urge my colleagues to support the resolution.
  Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Gentlewoman for bringing 
this important resolution to the floor.
  I would have preferred to see this resolution considered by the 
Committee on International Relations so that we could debate and 
discuss its provisions. It is unfortunate that a resolution like this 
was taken directly to the floor rather than first being considered by 
the committee of jurisdiction as House Rules provide.
  In calling on Russia, France, Germany, and other nations to forgive 
Iraqi debt, this resolution focuses on one of the issues most important 
to Iraq's future development.
  Because of Saddam Hussein's profligate and murderous ways, Iraq is 
saddled with an international debt estimated to be as high as $200 
billion. That means an inordinate amount of Iraq's resources will be 
devoted to debt repayment, unless something is done such as

[[Page H9491]]

this resolution suggests. Unless that debt is dealt with soon, Iraq 
will be unable to develop as its resources and the skills of its people 
would otherwise allow. This is an absurd situation and an affront to 
any reasonable standard of justice.
  The Iraqi people had absolutely nothing to do with the acquiring of 
this debt. Creditor nations supplied Saddam resources to build up his 
army to invade his neighbors and attack his own citizens; for his 
effort to develop weapons of mass destruction; and for his building of 
palaces and monuments for self-aggrandizement.
  This money did not serve the needs of the Iraqi people. These loans 
were not used to develop the infrastructure and resources of the 
country. The Iraqis not only failed to benefit from this policy of 
relentless borrowing; they were its primary victims.
  Without debt forgiveness, we are now asking the Iraqis literally to 
pay for Saddam Hussein's crimes for generations to come. By way of 
illustration, let me boil this absurd situation down to a simple truth: 
Without debt forgiveness, generations of Iraqi Kurds will be asked to 
pay the bills for developing the chemical weapons that were used to 
kill and maim their brethren at Halabja.
  As a further absurdity: If the Iraqi people are forced to repay 
Saddam's debts, most of these repayment funds would be directed to 
creditor nations that actually opposed Iraq's liberation.
  Mr. Speaker, our nation not only liberated Iraq. It has also already 
donated--I repeat, donated--approximately $3 billion to provide for 
Iraq's humanitarian needs and rebuild its crumbling infrastructure. And 
now it has been asked to give more. It is time for Iraq's creditors to 
step up to the plate and at last do something for the Iraqi people, 
instead of for Saddam Hussein. As both direction to Administration 
policy-makers and to strengthen their hand, it is important that this 
body go on record with a clear demand for international debt 
forgiveness for Iraq.
  Mr. COLE. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in support of House Resolution 
198. This is a resolution which I introduced several months go to 
address the inadequacies of France's, Germany's, and Russia's efforts 
in participating in the reconstruction effort. In doing so, I believe 
it best to highlight the outstanding debt owed to them by Saddam 
Hussein's regime in Iraq.
  Mr. Speaker, the time has come for the consideration of its 
resolution. In the past year, the United States has committed its most 
precious commodity, the lives of our men and women, for the liberation 
of an oppressed people. It is not an action which we took lightly as a 
Congress, and one which we took after much consideration. Now we must 
win the peace, and in doing so, call upon the very nations who have 
indicated they would like to see the successful reconstruction of Iraq 
to forgive its debt.
  The odious debt which the regime of Saddam Hussein contracted with 
numerous countries is not one which would be foisted upon the innocent 
people of Iraq. Now is the time for debt forgiveness and now is the 
time for the community of nations to come together and assist in 
solving this problem. In particular, France, Germany, and Russia must 
bear special responsibility for this because they represent the 
countries most vocal in supporting the illegitimate regime of Saddam 
Hussein.
  The Speaker, the past policies of these countries were particularly 
helpful to Saddam Hussein's regime when United Nations Resolutions 
prohibited such relationships. They have requested that they be allowed 
to assist in reconstruction, and this is a first step.
  Furthermore, because of their particular role over the last decade, 
it would be particularly helpful if they were to pledge greater amounts 
of money to aid in Iraq's reconstruction at the upcoming Madrid Donors' 
Conference. Thus, we have amended this legislation to reflect that 
fact.
  Mr. Speaker, we are about to enter into a great debate over the 
substance of a Supplemental that will directly aid Iraq in its 
reconstruction. While there are a variety of opinions on the 
Supplemental, there is little doubt that America will keep her word to 
the Iraqi people and directly aid her in reconsideration. There is 
absolutely no question that we will not hold the innocent people of 
Iraq responsible for the actions of Saddam Hussein.
  Vote ``yes'' on House Resolution 198.
  Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw my reservation of objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentlewoman from Florida?
  There was no objection.
  The Clerk read the resolution, as follows:

                              H. Res. 198

       Whereas France, Germany, Russia, and other nations have 
     expressed an interest in assisting in the reconstruction of 
     Iraq;
       Whereas France, Germany, Russia, and other nations have 
     previously encouraged and provided debt relief as a way to 
     assist other nations;
       Whereas France, Germany, Russia, and other nations had 
     extensive trade relationships with Iraq;
       Whereas loans and other support from France, Germany, 
     Russia, and other nations were used by the Saddam Hussein 
     regime to support the development of its weapons of mass 
     destruction programs, the expansion of the Iraqi Army that 
     the regime used to invade its neighbors, and the building of 
     palaces, monuments, and other means of aggrandizing Saddam 
     Hussein;
       Whereas the United States has already provided 
     approximately $3,000,000,000 in the form of grants to provide 
     for the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi people and to rebuild 
     Iraq's crumbling infrastructure; and
       Whereas France, Germany, Russia, and other nations are 
     capable of making generous pledges for the reconstruction of 
     Iraq at the International Conference on Reconstruction in 
     Iraq to be held in Madrid: Now, therefore, be it
       Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of 
     Representatives that France, Germany, Russia, and other 
     nations--
       (1) should work with multilateral institutions and with 
     creditor nations in the ``Paris Club'' to establish a debt 
     forgiveness program for Iraq to aid its reconstruction;
       (2) should make generous pledges for the reconstruction of 
     Iraq at the International Conference on Reconstruction in 
     Iraq to be held in Madrid; and
       (3) should acknowledge the role that Iraq's current debt 
     plays in hindering its reconstruction.

  Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute Offered by Ms. Ros-Lehtinen

  Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Mr. Speaker, I offer an amendment in the nature of 
a substitute.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute offered by Ms. Ros-
     Lehtinen:

       Strike all after the resolving clause and insert in lieu 
     thereof the following:
       That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that 
     France, Germany, Russia, and other nations--
       (1) should work with multilateral institutions and with 
     creditor nations in the ``Paris Club'' to establish a debt 
     forgiveness program for Iraq to aid its reconstruction;
       (2) should make generous pledges for the reconstruction of 
     Iraq at the International Conference on Reconstruction in 
     Iraq to be held in Madrid; and
       (3) should acknowledge the role that Iraq's current debt 
     plays in hindering its reconstruction.

  Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN (during the reading). Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous 
consent that the amendment in the nature of a substitute be considered 
as read and printed in the Record.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentlewoman from Florida?
  There was no objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the amendment in the 
nature of a substitute offered by the gentlewoman from Florida (Ms. 
Ros-Lehtinen).
  The amendment in the nature of a substitute was agreed to.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the resolution, as 
amended.
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the ayes appeared to have it.

                              {time}  1045

  Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.
  The yeas and nays were ordered.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Thornberry). Pursuant to clause 8 of 
rule XX, and the Chair's prior announcement, further proceedings on 
this question will be postponed.

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