[Congressional Record Volume 148, Number 149 (Monday, November 18, 2002)]
[Senate]
[Pages S11239-S11240]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                           ORDER OF PROCEDURE

  Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I have a series of parliamentary inquiries. 
As I understand the situation on tomorrow, Tuesday, there will be 90 
minutes of debate before a vote occurs at 10:30; during that 90 minutes 
of debate there will be 30 minutes under the control of Mr. Lott, 30 
minutes under the control of Mr. Daschle, and 30 minutes under the 
control of Mr. Byrd; is that correct?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator is correct.
  Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, at 10:30 it is my understanding--and I would 
like to inquire if I am correct in my understanding--the first vote 
will occur on the Daschle-Lieberman second-degree amendment No. 4953; a 
second vote will occur on the Daschle-Lieberman first-degree amendment 
No. 4911; a third vote will occur on the Thompson substitute, House 
bill No. 4901; the fourth vote will occur on cloture on H.R. 5005; am I 
correct?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator is correct.
  Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, I thank the Chair but let me continue.
  As I understand it, the Thompson substitute, House bill No. 4901, 
that is

[[Page S11240]]

the substitute which was passed by the House of Representatives, sent 
to the Senate, and called up and laid before the Senate. That is the 
bill which first saw the light of day in the Senate, as I understand 
it, on or about the early morning hours of this last Wednesday, this 
past Wednesday of last week. Is that the amendment, the Thompson 
substitute amendment, that is the House bill which I, on a number of 
occasions, have referred to as being a bill of 484 pages?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment does contain that number of 
pages.
  Mr. BYRD. I just wanted to be sure to establish in my own mind and 
call to the Senate's attention that that will be the third vote, then, 
on that bill as we come to tomorrow morning, Tuesday of this week.
  Now, Mr. President, a further parliamentary inquiry: Am I correct in 
stating that cloture on the bill, H.R. 5005, is not vitiated by 
question of the adoption of the substitute?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Cloture on the bill is not vitiated by that 
action.
  Mr. BYRD. I thank the Chair.
  Further parliamentary inquiry: Is it not a fact that if cloture is 
invoked on H.R. 5005, under the rule, 30 hours then will ensue under 
that cloture measure?
  If cloture is invoked, there will be 30 hours on H.R. 5005, am I 
correct?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Cloture under this consideration is 30 hours.
  Mr. BYRD. I thank the Chair. In this instance, if the Thompson 
substitute, the House bill No. 4901, if that substitute is adopted and 
cloture then is invoked on H.R. 5005, will amendments be in order 
during those 30 hours?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The adoption of the Thompson substitute 
precludes amendments.
  Mr. BYRD. I thought that was the case.
  The adoption of the Thompson substitute means as far as further 
amendments are concerned, the ball game is over; am I correct in 
putting it in that form?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator is correct.
  Mr. BYRD. I say all that, Mr. President, to say this: On last Friday 
when the Senate invoked cloture, what was cloture invoked on, may I ask 
of the Chair? On what did the Senate then invoke cloture?
  I see my loss of memory is not too bad after all. It seems to be 
shared by others. Of course, I am 85--almost.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. We are checking the record.
  Mr. BYRD. I say that with all respect, due respect and ample respect 
to the Chair, the Parliamentarian, and others.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Cloture has been invoked on amendment No. 
4901, the Thompson amendment.
  Mr. BYRD. I thank the Chair.
  Now, Mr. President, the point I am trying to make here is--and I 
wanted it in the Record, and I wanted Senators to be aware of what they 
did when they voted to invoke cloture on last Friday. The distinguished 
occupant of the chair did not vote to invoke cloture, nor did this 
Senator, who now is speaking.
  There were 29 Democrats who voted against cloture last Friday. There 
were 17 Democrats who voted for cloture last Friday. As I note--and 
this may have been a cursory examination I have made--but I have noted, 
in a cursory examination, I believe two Republicans who were absent 
would have voted with me against cloture and I believe four Democrats 
who were absent would have voted with me against cloture.
  In any event, had 6 of the 17 Democrats who voted for cloture voted 
against cloture last Friday, we would not be under cloture at this 
point because the number of Senators voting for cloture on last Friday 
would have been only 59 and the number, therefore, would have fallen 1 
vote short of cloture.
  Now, I tried to get my fellow Democrats to vote against cloture 
because I felt that we ought to have more time to discuss this homeland 
security bill, which had been dropped on our desks virtually out of the 
shades of the early morning as they were lifting and the golden fingers 
of dawn were streaking across the land. I tried to get several Senators 
to vote against cloture, my plea being: ``Don't vote for cloture today. 
Give us a little more time. If we don't vote for cloture today, it will 
be voted next week ``--meaning this week, which we have now started. 
``Don't vote for cloture today.''
  One or two Senators listened to my importunings and voted against 
cloture.
  Mr. President, I ask for an additional 3 minutes.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, the Senator is granted an 
additional 3 minutes.
  Mr. BYRD. Mr. President, one or two Senators listened and voted 
against cloture. Some others listened and didn't vote against cloture 
but voted for cloture, which was their right to do. But let me just 
show what happened there.
  They voted for cloture. Cloture was invoked. Some of those Senators 
with whom I talked said: ``You have 30 hours in which amendments can be 
offered, and some of the problems that you outlined, you can get a vote 
on them, and possibly those can be amended and corrected.''
  As we have seen, only one amendment--one amendment--was offered. It 
filled up that particular tree, so that no other amendments could be 
offered while that amendment was pending. But our good friends on the 
other side said: This far, no farther. You have offered an amendment--
meaning Mr. Daschle had offered an amendment on behalf of Mr. 
Lieberman; that amendment was pending--you have offered this amendment. 
That's the amendment we are going to vote on. You are not going to get 
to to offer any more amendments. The 30 hours will be run on that one 
amendment.

  So I hope Senators in the future will remember. Of course, I knew 
that could be done. But I have to say I think that is the first time in 
my memory--and I have been here during the great civil rights debates 
of the 1960s--I believe that is the first time--and I don't say it 
critically of the Republicans; they had that right, they played by the 
rules. Our problem is we don't all know the rules. But they played by 
the rules. We have one amendment. The 30 hours will be gone Tuesday 
morning, and that one amendment is it, and I mean ``it.''
  Now, when cloture is invoked on H.R. 5005, as amended, if amended, we 
won't be able to offer any amendments. We can talk, but the ball game 
is over when we adopt the Thompson substitute. That substitute wipes 
out everything. It wipes out H.R. 5005, as far as that is concerned.
  So the point is, we voted cloture on ourselves. We did it to 
ourselves on this side. I knew every Republican would vote for cloture, 
but I hoped that at least enough Democrats would vote against cloture--
we only needed six more votes in opposition. But we did it. We did it 
to ourselves. We have had a chance to offer only one amendment. That is 
it. The Republicans say: That is it, no more amendments, and we will 
vote on Tuesday.
  I just say this so that our friends on my side of the aisle in 
particular will know what their vote for cloture on Friday has done to 
defeat our chances to have other amendments voted on.
  I thank the Chair and I yield the floor.
  Mr. REID. Mr. President, I have spoken to the two leaders. There will 
be no cloture vote this afternoon, and likely no other votes this 
afternoon. Members will have all the opportunity they want to debate 
the Shedd nomination or, of course, the homeland security matter.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Levin). The Senator from Texas.
  Mr. GRAMM. Mr. President, what is the pending business?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. We have 1 minute and a half left in morning 
business.
  Mr. GRAMM. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that I might have 
10 additional minutes in morning business.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.

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