[Congressional Record Volume 148, Number 125 (Monday, September 30, 2002)]
[House]
[Pages H6780-H6782]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                             SPECIAL ORDERS

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              FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOR RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of 
January 3, 2001, the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) is 
recognized for 60 minutes as the designee of the majority leader.
  Mr. JONES of North Carolina. Mr. Speaker, I will not take more than 5 
or 6 minutes, but I am back on the floor

[[Page H6781]]

again to talk about an issue of freedom, freedom of speech in our 
churches, synagogues, and mosques throughout this country.
  Most people do not realize that in 1954, Lyndon Baines Johnson, 
United States Senator, put an amendment on a revenue bill going through 
the Senate without any debate, no debate at all; and that amendment 
basically put the Internal Revenue Service into the churches and 
synagogues throughout this country.
  Prior to 1954 and the beginning of this great Nation that we all know 
and love, the preachers and the priests and the rabbis at that time, 
all the way up until 1954, had no restriction of speech. If they wanted 
to talk about a cultural issue that maybe became a political issue of 
the day, they did so.
  What happened was that with the Johnson amendment, because he was 
being attacked, so to speak, by the H.L. Hunt family in Texas, they 
were opposed to his reelection to the United States Senate, he put an 
amendment on a revenue bill going through the Senate that basically, 
again, was never debated. So the Internal Revenue Service has the 
authority to make judgments over what certain churches, meaning the 
preachers, the priests, the rabbis, might say that might be in their 
opinion of a political nature.
  Mr. Speaker, this, in my opinion, is not what this great Nation 
stands for. This great Nation stands for the first amendment rights of 
its people, and I support that first amendment right, and that includes 
the churches and the houses of worship throughout this Nation.
  Let me also say that this bill is known as H.R. 2357, and in just a 
very few minutes I am going to show my colleagues some myths that the 
opposition is saying about this legislation. We had people like Dr. D. 
James Kennedy, who is a wonderful man of our Lord from Florida, to come 
up to testify on May 14; also, a Baptist minister here in Washington, 
D.C. who used to be a Member of the House, and his name is Pastor 
Walter Fauntroy. Pastor Fauntroy came to testify on behalf of this 
legislation; and the young man that helped me draft this legislation, 
an attorney with the American Center for Law and Justice, Kobe May, 
also testified.
  Mr. Speaker, at that testimony, the IRS basically said they cannot 
even enforce this legislation. I want to read just a couple of comments 
very quickly that came out during the hearing. This one really probably 
is one that bothers me greatly, which is that in answer to a question 
from the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis), the Internal Revenue 
Service acknowledged that they were not able to enforce this law; that 
they were dependent on a third party to enforce the law. In other 
words, Mr. Speaker, that kind of reminds me of the late 1930s in 
Germany when somebody reported somebody for saying something or doing 
something.
  Again, let me remind my colleagues in the House that this was only an 
amendment offered by Johnson in 1954 that was never debated and 
accepted, that put the Internal Revenue Service into the churches. Let 
me also say, if I might read it at this time, a quote by Martin Luther, 
and Martin Luther said: ``The church must be reminded that it is 
neither the master nor the servant of the State, but rather the 
conscience of the State.'' I believe that quote is so true.
  Mr. Speaker, let me also make a couple of other points. We have over 
700,000 houses of worship in this Nation. How in the world can the 
Internal Revenue Service, during the months of September and October 
and November, how in the world can they send a person to be at the 
churches and synagogues and mosques to see what they are saying?
  Let me give an example very quickly. In the third district of North 
Carolina, which I represent, down in eastern North Carolina, a priest, 
Father Rudy at St. Paul's in New Bern, North Carolina, was asked by one 
of his parishioners, Jerry Schill, Jerry Schill asked, would you, 
Father Rudy, just say at the closing of the sermon, at the homily, just 
say that George Bush is pro-life. That is all he asked him to do, to 
say that George Bush is pro-life. He said no, I cannot do that. If I 
make that statement, it will violate the 501(c)(3) status of this 
church, and again, that is because of the Johnson amendment. If that 
had been in 1953 or 1945, the priest could have said whatever he wanted 
to say. He had the right to do so. The first amendment guarantees it.
  Let me give another example on the other side of the fence. We have 
strong support, Mr. Speaker, from another former Member of Congress, 
Pastor Floyd Flake, Dr. Floyd Flake of one of the largest Baptist 
churches in New York; and what Dr. Flake did in the 2000 election, he 
had Presidential candidate Al Gore in his church, and when Mr. Gore 
finished his comments, Pastor Flake went up, put his arm on his 
shoulder and said to his congregation, I think this is the right man to 
lead this Nation.
  Well, Dr. Flake, just like the priest down in my district, they would 
be saying this because they believe spiritually it is the right thing 
to do in their mind, and they should have the right to do it. It should 
not have been taken away from them by Lyndon Johnson.
  Mr. Speaker, let me now very quickly run through a chart. The other 
side on this issue is saying that this bill is not needed. They say 
that houses of worship can already comment on political issues. I have 
just given two examples, and I can give more examples than that. In 
fact, let me give another example. One of the groups that is opposed to 
this opposition is the Americans for Separation of Church and State, 
and this one I always have a great deal of interest in for this reason. 
I am not going to read a page and a half, but just make a couple of 
points. He sends this out to 285,000 churches. That is what he said in 
a press release. He did not send it to 700,000, but 285,000. I wonder 
how he selected those 285,000, by the way.
  But this is what he says; it is really kind of contradictory. The 
first sentence says: ``The first amendment of the U.S. Constitution 
protects the rights of pastors and church leaders to speak out on 
religious, moral, and political issues.'' Mr. Speaker, I actually agree 
with him on that sentence. But he comes back with, ``However, it is 
because of the Johnson amendment that churches and synagogues and 
mosques are barred from endorsing or opposing candidates for any 
political office and may not intervene directly or indirectly in 
partisan campaigns.''
  Mr. Speaker, this is not an effort by those of us who believe in the 
first amendment to say that churches and preachers and priests and 
rabbis should get involved in political activity. We do not believe 
that. Only if they believe there are certain topics that they want to 
talk about. If that priest in New Bern wanted to say that George Bush 
is pro-life, that is educational, Mr. Speaker. If Floyd Flake in New 
York wants to say Al Gore is the right man, if he believes that and he 
says it, that is also educational. The spiritual leaders in this 
country have got to have the freedom.
  So that first myth that the other side is saying is absolutely wrong. 
The churches and the preachers and the priests, I have talked to many 
of them throughout this Nation, do not understand this law that Johnson 
passed; and they are concerned about violating the law so, therefore, 
they just would rather not say anything.
  I want to make it perfectly clear again that should this bill become 
law, the preacher, the priest, the rabbi would have a choice. He would 
not have to talk about moral, political, or cultural issues if they did 
not want to. He can choose to do so. But the way it is now, he is 
restricted by the Federal Government.
  That in itself brings up the second myth. Anyone who believes in 
separation of church and State cannot support this legislation. Well, 
my suggestion to those people is this, if you believe there should be a 
separation, then why should the Federal Government be able to have any 
influence or any chilling effect on what a preacher, priest, or rabbi 
should say in this Nation? So, therefore, that one is bogus also.
  Then they say, they come right back, the houses of worship bill would 
compromise the integrity of houses of worship. Let me tell my 
colleagues that in itself is laughable, because I am going to give a 
quote now from a former Member of Congress whose name is George 
Hansen from Idaho; he served for 12 years. Mr. Speaker, to myth

[[Page H6782]]

number three I would say, let me read the quote from George Hansen. Mr. 
Hansen said on the floor of this House: ``It is impossible to have 
religious freedom in any Nation where churches are licensed to the 
government. That is the point.'' That is the point. When the churches 
and synagogues in this country were given a 501(c)3 status, there was 
no restriction at all. I have researched this issue, no restriction at 
all on speech; nothing. It was Lyndon Baines Johnson that put the 
Federal Government into our churches and synagogues.

  Myth number four is H.R. 2357 is not constitutional. Let me say to 
those again that raise that bogus argument, this is constitutional. 
Everything that I have ever read from being a student in high school to 
a college student to being an older man, that the first amendment 
applies to each and everyone and that means our preachers, our priests, 
and rabbis. In fact, in 1830, when Alex De Toqueville came to America 
and he was so impressed with this great, beautiful country that God had 
blessed with natural beauty, and he was excited about the New Republic 
and this freedom we would have in this country, what he said, Mr. 
Speaker, when he traveled America was, what impressed him the most was 
the flame in the pulpit. Mr. Speaker, we know for sure that until the 
Johnson amendment that the churches, synagogues, and mosques had no 
restrictions of speech.
  So, Mr. Speaker, I close this way with a couple of comments. Mr. 
Hansen was right. It is impossible to have religious freedom in any 
Nation where churches are licensed to the government. The IRS testified 
on May 14 they cannot even enforce this law; and yet we have certain 
groups in this country that intentionally send out letters to 
intimidate a lot of our pastors, priests, and rabbis. I believe, Mr. 
Speaker, with our men and women in uniform fighting today and at this 
very moment for this country, trying to protect our national security 
and protect our constitutional rights, and one of those is the freedom 
of speech and the freedom of participation, then our spiritual leaders 
should not be handcuffed. If this Nation is going to remain morally 
strong, Mr. Speaker, our spiritual leaders must talk about the issues 
of the day that they think are important, whether they be cultural 
issues or moral issues or political issues; and sometimes they 
intertwine, quite frankly.
  So, Mr. Speaker, I am very hopeful that this bill will be debated 
sometime this week, and I certainly hope that the House will join me in 
passing this legislation. That will be the first step of restoring the 
First Amendment right to our spiritual leaders.
  I close this way because I close this way every time I speak, whether 
it be in my district, here on the floor, or anywhere throughout, 
because I feel that this time that we are in as a Nation that, first of 
all, I have three military bases in my district. I have Camp LeJeune, I 
have Cherry Point Marine Air Station, New River Marine Base, and also 
Seymour Johnson Air Force Base. So I close, Mr. Speaker, by asking God 
to please bless our men and women in uniform. I ask God to please bless 
the families of our men and women in uniform. I ask God to please bless 
the American citizen. I ask God to please bless the men and women who 
serve in the House and the Senate, that we might do what is right in 
God's eyes. I ask God to please bless the President of the United 
States as he has many tough days and many tough decisions to make.
  I close finally this way, Mr. Speaker, by saying three times, please, 
God, please, God, please God, continue to bless America.

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