[Congressional Record Volume 147, Number 166 (Tuesday, December 4, 2001)]
[Senate]
[Pages S12350-S12351]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
COMPREHENSIVE RETIREMENT SECURITY AND PENSION REFORM ACT OF 2001--
Continued
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from New Mexico is recognized.
Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, parliamentary inquiry: What bill is
pending before the Senate? What are the agreements regarding it?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The pending bill is H.R. 10, to which pending
is the Daschle substitute amendment, and an amendment to that is the
amendment by the Senator from New Mexico with time for debate evenly
divided.
Mr. DOMENICI. Has a vote been ordered?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The yeas and nays have not been ordered.
Mr. DOMENICI. I ask for the yeas and nays on final passage.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there a sufficient second?
There is a sufficient second.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I yield myself the 2\1/2\ minutes that I
have.
First, I thank the chairman of the Budget Committee for cosponsoring
this amendment.
Second, for those--they are numerous in the Senate--who are for the
railroad retirement bill, this amendment is not a poison pill for the
railroad retirement bill. It does not impact how this bill will be
implemented. It simply will make sure the costs are recorded correctly.
If you record them correctly rather than direct how they will be
scored, you have no impact on whether the bill proceeds.
There is no additional point of order or anything that is an
impediment to the bill. It is just that we very seldom, if ever, let a
bill go through that costs money where we direct how it should be
scored. In this case, the Congressional Budget Office was asked how
much it will cost. They told us. Instead of scoring it as we would
normally in almost every single bill that affects spending, the House,
in the final moments as this bill was getting ready to be passed, put
in language saying it shouldn't be scored as it is; we want to score it
another way; we direct it not be scored costing $15.3 billion.
All I ask is that provision be stricken. The bill does not have
language in it, if the Domenici amendment is agreed to, that directs
how you score it, but rather the costs will be scored as estimated by
the Congressional Budget Office, which does the same thing for every
bill that goes through. Bills do not have language telling you that you
must score it differently than you score all the other bills and
differently than the Congressional Budget Office indicates.
I reserve whatever time I have and yield the floor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who yields time in opposition?
The Senator from Montana.
Mr. BAUCUS. Mr. President, I yield myself a minute and a half.
Mr. President, I have the highest regard for the Senator from New
Mexico and also for Senator Conrad, chairman of the Budget Committee.
They do an excellent job in a very difficult situation trying to keep
us on track with
[[Page S12351]]
the budget matters. They are very good Senators. I think people from
their home States know that. But I just wanted to state that.
The question here is, does this cost any money? If you assume it does
cost money, then there is an argument against directed scorekeeping;
that is, there is an argument we do have outlays of maybe $15, $17
billion.
What is it we are addressing? We are addressing that the tier 2
retirement trust fund buys securities; that is, stocks and bonds,
rather than buying Treasury bills. The question is, Is buying equity
securities the same or different from buying Treasury notes? Under the
rules, they are different; that is, one is an outlay and the other is
not. So it will be a $15 billion outlay cost under the budget rules if
the trust fund invests in securities; that is, equity securities, and
no outlay, no cost when the trust fund buys Treasury bonds.
I yield myself an additional 30 seconds.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Montana.
Mr. BAUCUS. Mr. President, technically, the chairman and the Senator
from New Mexico are right because that is the way the budget rules have
been applied. And this is a gray area. This is not similar to buying a
truck or a gold mine or buying another physical asset. Rather, it is
buying securities instead of Treasury bonds.
I yield myself an additional 30 seconds.
So I am saying to my friends, the Government is no better off or
worse off whatsoever if the trust fund buys securities rather than
buying Treasury notes, as all pension funds do. They invest in both
Treasury securities as well as equity securities.
So I urge my colleagues to not apply this rule at this time because
the Government is no better or worse off; second, if the Senator's
amendment were to be adopted, that would be the end of the railroad
retirement bill this year because we would have to go back to the House
and it would not survive this session or maybe even this Congress.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time for the Senator from Montana has
expired.
The Senator from New Mexico.
Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I yield whatever time I have to Senator
Conrad and thank him for cosponsoring the amendment.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from North Dakota.
Mr. CONRAD. Mr. President, I favor the railroad retirement
legislation. I strongly favor it. But I just as strongly support this
amendment to knock out directed scorekeeping because I think it
misleads our colleagues and our countrymen.
Directed scorekeeping would suggest this legislation costs $250
million this year to implement. That simply is not correct. The cost is
$15.6 billion. The hard reality is, that is what the Federal Government
is going to have to borrow to fund this legislation, $15.6 billion, not
$250 million. We should not say otherwise.
We can support this legislation but be direct and clear with respect
to its cost.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator's time has expired.
The question is on agreeing to amendment No. 2202. The yeas and nays
have been ordered. The clerk will call the roll.
The assistant legislative clerk called the roll.
Mr. NICKLES. I announce that the Senator from Texas (Mrs. Hutchison)
is necessarily absent.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Are there any other Senators in the Chamber
desiring to vote?
The result was announced--yeas 40, nays 59, as follows:
[Rollcall Vote No. 347 Leg.]
YEAS--40
Allard
Bennett
Bond
Brownback
Bunning
Burns
Campbell
Cochran
Conrad
Craig
Crapo
DeWine
Domenici
Ensign
Feingold
Fitzgerald
Frist
Gramm
Grassley
Gregg
Helms
Inhofe
Kyl
Levin
Lott
Lugar
McCain
McConnell
Murkowski
Nelson (FL)
Nickles
Roberts
Santorum
Sessions
Smith (NH)
Stevens
Thomas
Thompson
Thurmond
Voinovich
NAYS--59
Akaka
Allen
Baucus
Bayh
Biden
Bingaman
Boxer
Breaux
Byrd
Cantwell
Carnahan
Carper
Chafee
Cleland
Clinton
Collins
Corzine
Daschle
Dayton
Dodd
Dorgan
Durbin
Edwards
Enzi
Feinstein
Graham
Hagel
Harkin
Hatch
Hollings
Hutchinson
Inouye
Jeffords
Johnson
Kennedy
Kerry
Kohl
Landrieu
Leahy
Lieberman
Lincoln
Mikulski
Miller
Murray
Nelson (NE)
Reed
Reid
Rockefeller
Sarbanes
Schumer
Shelby
Smith (OR)
Snowe
Specter
Stabenow
Torricelli
Warner
Wellstone
Wyden
NOT VOTING--1
Hutchison
The amendment (No. 2202) was rejected.
Mr. REID. Mr. President, I move to reconsider the vote.
Mr. BAUCUS. I move to lay that motion on the table.
The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Minnesota.
____________________