[Congressional Record Volume 147, Number 166 (Tuesday, December 4, 2001)]
[Senate]
[Pages S12350-S12351]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




   COMPREHENSIVE RETIREMENT SECURITY AND PENSION REFORM ACT OF 2001--
                               Continued

  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from New Mexico is recognized.
  Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, parliamentary inquiry: What bill is 
pending before the Senate? What are the agreements regarding it?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The pending bill is H.R. 10, to which pending 
is the Daschle substitute amendment, and an amendment to that is the 
amendment by the Senator from New Mexico with time for debate evenly 
divided.
  Mr. DOMENICI. Has a vote been ordered?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The yeas and nays have not been ordered.
  Mr. DOMENICI. I ask for the yeas and nays on final passage.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there a sufficient second?
  There is a sufficient second.
  The yeas and nays were ordered.
  Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I yield myself the 2\1/2\ minutes that I 
have.
  First, I thank the chairman of the Budget Committee for cosponsoring 
this amendment.
  Second, for those--they are numerous in the Senate--who are for the 
railroad retirement bill, this amendment is not a poison pill for the 
railroad retirement bill. It does not impact how this bill will be 
implemented. It simply will make sure the costs are recorded correctly. 
If you record them correctly rather than direct how they will be 
scored, you have no impact on whether the bill proceeds.
  There is no additional point of order or anything that is an 
impediment to the bill. It is just that we very seldom, if ever, let a 
bill go through that costs money where we direct how it should be 
scored. In this case, the Congressional Budget Office was asked how 
much it will cost. They told us. Instead of scoring it as we would 
normally in almost every single bill that affects spending, the House, 
in the final moments as this bill was getting ready to be passed, put 
in language saying it shouldn't be scored as it is; we want to score it 
another way; we direct it not be scored costing $15.3 billion.
  All I ask is that provision be stricken. The bill does not have 
language in it, if the Domenici amendment is agreed to, that directs 
how you score it, but rather the costs will be scored as estimated by 
the Congressional Budget Office, which does the same thing for every 
bill that goes through. Bills do not have language telling you that you 
must score it differently than you score all the other bills and 
differently than the Congressional Budget Office indicates.
  I reserve whatever time I have and yield the floor.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Who yields time in opposition?
  The Senator from Montana.
  Mr. BAUCUS. Mr. President, I yield myself a minute and a half.
  Mr. President, I have the highest regard for the Senator from New 
Mexico and also for Senator Conrad, chairman of the Budget Committee. 
They do an excellent job in a very difficult situation trying to keep 
us on track with

[[Page S12351]]

the budget matters. They are very good Senators. I think people from 
their home States know that. But I just wanted to state that.
  The question here is, does this cost any money? If you assume it does 
cost money, then there is an argument against directed scorekeeping; 
that is, there is an argument we do have outlays of maybe $15, $17 
billion.
  What is it we are addressing? We are addressing that the tier 2 
retirement trust fund buys securities; that is, stocks and bonds, 
rather than buying Treasury bills. The question is, Is buying equity 
securities the same or different from buying Treasury notes? Under the 
rules, they are different; that is, one is an outlay and the other is 
not. So it will be a $15 billion outlay cost under the budget rules if 
the trust fund invests in securities; that is, equity securities, and 
no outlay, no cost when the trust fund buys Treasury bonds.
  I yield myself an additional 30 seconds.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Montana.
  Mr. BAUCUS. Mr. President, technically, the chairman and the Senator 
from New Mexico are right because that is the way the budget rules have 
been applied. And this is a gray area. This is not similar to buying a 
truck or a gold mine or buying another physical asset. Rather, it is 
buying securities instead of Treasury bonds.
  I yield myself an additional 30 seconds.
  So I am saying to my friends, the Government is no better off or 
worse off whatsoever if the trust fund buys securities rather than 
buying Treasury notes, as all pension funds do. They invest in both 
Treasury securities as well as equity securities.
  So I urge my colleagues to not apply this rule at this time because 
the Government is no better or worse off; second, if the Senator's 
amendment were to be adopted, that would be the end of the railroad 
retirement bill this year because we would have to go back to the House 
and it would not survive this session or maybe even this Congress.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time for the Senator from Montana has 
expired.
  The Senator from New Mexico.
  Mr. DOMENICI. Mr. President, I yield whatever time I have to Senator 
Conrad and thank him for cosponsoring the amendment.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from North Dakota.
  Mr. CONRAD. Mr. President, I favor the railroad retirement 
legislation. I strongly favor it. But I just as strongly support this 
amendment to knock out directed scorekeeping because I think it 
misleads our colleagues and our countrymen.
  Directed scorekeeping would suggest this legislation costs $250 
million this year to implement. That simply is not correct. The cost is 
$15.6 billion. The hard reality is, that is what the Federal Government 
is going to have to borrow to fund this legislation, $15.6 billion, not 
$250 million. We should not say otherwise.
  We can support this legislation but be direct and clear with respect 
to its cost.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator's time has expired.
  The question is on agreeing to amendment No. 2202. The yeas and nays 
have been ordered. The clerk will call the roll.
  The assistant legislative clerk called the roll.
  Mr. NICKLES. I announce that the Senator from Texas (Mrs. Hutchison) 
is necessarily absent.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Are there any other Senators in the Chamber 
desiring to vote?
  The result was announced--yeas 40, nays 59, as follows:

                      [Rollcall Vote No. 347 Leg.]

                                YEAS--40

     Allard
     Bennett
     Bond
     Brownback
     Bunning
     Burns
     Campbell
     Cochran
     Conrad
     Craig
     Crapo
     DeWine
     Domenici
     Ensign
     Feingold
     Fitzgerald
     Frist
     Gramm
     Grassley
     Gregg
     Helms
     Inhofe
     Kyl
     Levin
     Lott
     Lugar
     McCain
     McConnell
     Murkowski
     Nelson (FL)
     Nickles
     Roberts
     Santorum
     Sessions
     Smith (NH)
     Stevens
     Thomas
     Thompson
     Thurmond
     Voinovich

                                NAYS--59

     Akaka
     Allen
     Baucus
     Bayh
     Biden
     Bingaman
     Boxer
     Breaux
     Byrd
     Cantwell
     Carnahan
     Carper
     Chafee
     Cleland
     Clinton
     Collins
     Corzine
     Daschle
     Dayton
     Dodd
     Dorgan
     Durbin
     Edwards
     Enzi
     Feinstein
     Graham
     Hagel
     Harkin
     Hatch
     Hollings
     Hutchinson
     Inouye
     Jeffords
     Johnson
     Kennedy
     Kerry
     Kohl
     Landrieu
     Leahy
     Lieberman
     Lincoln
     Mikulski
     Miller
     Murray
     Nelson (NE)
     Reed
     Reid
     Rockefeller
     Sarbanes
     Schumer
     Shelby
     Smith (OR)
     Snowe
     Specter
     Stabenow
     Torricelli
     Warner
     Wellstone
     Wyden

                             NOT VOTING--1

       
     Hutchison
       
  The amendment (No. 2202) was rejected.
  Mr. REID. Mr. President, I move to reconsider the vote.
  Mr. BAUCUS. I move to lay that motion on the table.
  The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Minnesota.

                          ____________________