[Congressional Record Volume 147, Number 156 (Tuesday, November 13, 2001)]
[House]
[Pages H8113-H8118]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




SENSE OF CONGRESS THAT SCHOOLS SHOULD SET ASIDE TIME TO ALLOW CHILDREN 
  TO PRAY FOR, OR QUIETLY REFLECT ON BEHALF OF THE NATION DURING THIS 
                            TIME OF STRUGGLE

  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I move to suspend the rules and agree to 
the concurrent resolution (H. Con. Res. 239) expressing the sense of 
Congress that schools in the United States should set aside a 
sufficient period of time to allow children to pray for, or quietly 
reflect on behalf of, the Nation during this time of struggle against 
the forces of international terrorism.
  The Clerk read as follows:

                            H. Con. Res. 239

       Whereas section 4 of title 4, United States Code, 
     establishes the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and 
     describes such Pledge as including the phrase ``one Nation 
     under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all'';
       Whereas in 1954 President Dwight D. Eisenhower, referring 
     to the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance to the 
     Flag, said that the Nation had reaffirmed ``the transcendence 
     of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this 
     way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons 
     which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in 
     peace and war''; and
       Whereas President George W. Bush has asked the people of 
     the United States to pray for those who suffered as a result 
     of the atrocities committed against the United States on 
     September 11, 2001: Now, therefore, be it
       Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate 
     concurring), That it is the sense of Congress that schools in 
     the United States should set aside a sufficient period of 
     time to allow children to pray for, or quietly reflect on 
     behalf of, the Nation during this time of struggle against 
     the forces of international terrorism.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to the rule, the gentleman from 
Georgia (Mr. Isakson) and the gentleman from California (Mr. George 
Miller) each will control 20 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Isakson).


                             General Leave

  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all Members 
may have 5 legislative days within which to revise and extend their 
remarks on House Concurrent Resolution 239.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Georgia?
  There was no objection.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, this resolution encourages and does not require the 
schools of

[[Page H8114]]

America to set aside a sufficient period of time for children in 
America to pray for or reflect on our Nation in this time of battle and 
tribulation because of the terrorist acts.
  Mr. Speaker, I am confident that there will be those who express 
concern that prayer and schools might be mentioned in the same 
resolution, but at the outset of this debate it should be quite clear 
that this is clearly an option and not a mandate.
  A lot of things have become quite clear in the United States of 
America since September 11. It has become politically correct to sing 
God Bless America rather than fight songs at athletic events. All of us 
have reflected passionately and quietly and, many times, sadly on the 
blessings we have individually received and the blessings of this 
Nation. But we should be vigilant, even in the most terrible trying 
times possible, to recognize and preserve the constitutional freedoms 
that make this country great.
  Our Constitution prohibits us in this government from establishing 
religion, but it preserves forever the right of Americans to practice 
their religion.

                              {time}  2100

  Mr. Speaker, there have been many great enemies to the citizens of 
America in our history. From 1950 through the early 1990s the Soviet 
Union was one. That was a government that believed that prayer and 
religion should be nonexistent, and it was basically a cornerstone of 
that nation. They built an Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe. They 
preserved themselves for 40 years or a little over, but eventually they 
died.
  On the other extreme there is America's enemy today, the Taliban, 
that not only establish a religion but force its practice, and only its 
practice, with the most horrible of retribution to anybody that thinks 
or meditates differently.
  Mr. Speaker, the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) has 
brought to this House a resolution which falls clearly in between those 
two extremes and precisely why the United States of America was founded 
in the first place. The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) has 
asked and is asking this house to adopt a resolution that says to our 
schools, it is appropriate if you choose to establish a period of time, 
if you will, for those who would pray for our Nation in this time of 
trouble, to do so in the way they see fit, voluntarily, and for others 
to reflect on this Nation in our time of peril and distress.
  It mandates nothing. It requires nothing. But it recognizes as the 
motto above the chair of the Speaker which states that in the America 
we founded, we place the trust in our people, that they could freely 
worship in the way they saw fit, pay tribute to the God of their 
choice, and enjoy living in a nation where they had sufficient time to 
practice their faith their way.
  Mr. Speaker, I encourage the Members of this House to adopt this 
concurrent resolution.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such 
time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, while no one can quarrel with what the supporters of 
this resolution suggest they want, and that is for reflection and time 
for children to consider what is going on in this country, once we 
suggest that the school is going to set aside time for the children to 
pray or reflect quietly, it does not say that they shall pray quietly, 
it does not say they shall pray silently, I believe we are now treading 
into the question of the school setting the content of that prayer.
  There is nothing today that prevents schoolchildren from praying 
voluntarily at their own time on behalf of this Nation or people in 
harm or the victims of terrorism; but what we should not do is, we 
should not have the school dictating that should take place at an 
appointed time and place.
  If the schools want to have a moment of silence, the child may then 
pick that moment of silence to reflect in any manner or pray in any 
manner that they want, but this resolution goes beyond that. I am 
afraid that this resolution is really about, once again, trying to 
introduce some form of content or prayer into the schools under the 
guise of the tragedies of September 11 and the events that have 
occurred since then. We should really not do that.
  We should really understand that we are very clear about the rights 
of children to pray in school. If the student groups meet on student 
property, then religious groups have an equal right to meet on school 
property and to pray; and the courts have protected students' 
individual rights to pray in a nondisruptive manner and have approved 
attempts by school districts to accommodate students in this 
resolution.
  But this resolution is different than that, because while it is 
voluntary from the Congress and it is voluntary for the school to do 
it, but once the school sets aside time to pray for the country in that 
manner, then I believe they have crossed the line.
  I wish that we would understand that we have every right to call for 
people to reflect and to pray in the interest in this country; and they 
will or they will not. Hopefully they have, and millions and millions 
of Americans and their children and their families have made that 
decision to pray in their places of worship, to pray around the dinner 
table, to pray in their homes before they go to sleep at night or when 
they first wake up in the morning or whatever suits them. I hope that 
that would continue.
  But I think that this resolution is mistaken. And I think that this 
resolution is ill-considered and I would hope that the Congress would 
not pass it.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from New 
Jersey (Mr. Smith).
  Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. Mr. Speaker, I rise in very strong support 
of H. Con. Res. 239, a timely and very necessary call for prayer and/or 
spiritual reflection during this time of extreme challenge.
  Mr. Speaker, as the father of four, I know that kids have vexing 
questions and myriad doubts and concerns over the recent spate of 
horrific terrorist acts. In the minds of many of our young people and 
in the minds of the old alike, cruelty, mass murder, terrorism defy 
easy answers. It seems to me that prayer or spiritual reflection in all 
venues, not just in the church, not just at home, but in all venues, 
including school, fosters healing and fosters reconciliation.
  The why of it, the questions concerning the essence of good and evil 
defy simply logic. To understand the depravity of September 11 requires 
all of us to look deeply at the hearts and at matters spiritual.
  The gentleman from North Carolina's (Mr. Jones) modest call for 
prayer or, and I emphasize the word ``or,'' quiet reflection is a 
positive, constructive, liberating and very necessary thing. Our young 
people need encouragement to pray and they need encouragement to 
reflect.
  Frankly, I find it bewildering and disappointing that this modest 
proposal should engender any opposition at all. There is nothing 
dangerous or risky about encouraging and even admonishing children to 
pray and to reflect. The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) does 
not prescribe any specific prayer, nor is there anything in this 
resolution concerning specific content.
  I would hope that our children would be inspired not only to pray, 
but to pray for wisdom and understanding and strength, and also to pray 
for the victims and their families and their friends. There are a lot 
of hurting people out there. They need prayer. And I think we should 
encourage our kids to pray.
  I would hope America's young people would pray for reconciliations 
among people of disparate and often conflicting perspectives, and to 
pray for justice for those who perpetrate these crimes and cruelty.
  Mr. Speaker, prayer and spiritual reflection are as necessary as food 
and oxygen, and without it, our kids are deprived of the most essential 
element in building character. This is an excellent resolution and I 
hope we get a unanimous vote.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield 4 minutes to 
the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott).
  Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me time.
  Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in the wake of September 11 and we are 
using the tragedy to pass controversial legislation. It is not the 
first time, of

[[Page H8115]]

course. Just a few days ago we repealed the alternative minimum tax, a 
tax on corporations who have loopholes and deductions and were paying 
no tax at all. We had an alternative minimum tax for them to pay, and 
under the name of economic stimulus, this House voted to repeal that 
tax.
  In the name of airline security in the wake of September 11, we had a 
bill that included tort reform that had been defeated year after year. 
In the name of antiterrorist crime legislation, we had wiretap 
authority that applied to cases that had nothing to do with terrorism, 
in fact, in some cases had nothing to do with any alleged crime. And we 
passed excessive wiretap authority in the wake of September 11.
  Now we are using September 11 to try to pass prayer in public school. 
The last time we had hearings on the issue of prayer in public school, 
we had deliberations, subcommittee and committee, and when it came to 
the floor, it was defeated. It was defeated because we know that 
children can already pray in public school today. They have that 
option. They do not need the bill. They can pray. If the teacher passes 
out a math test, they can pray. Before the meal, they can say grace. 
That is okay. That is allowed today.
  What we cannot do is instruct the children to pray whether they want 
to or not. This resolution not only tells them to pray, but tells them 
what to pray for, and reserves, according to the resolution, a 
sufficient period of time during the day for prayer or quiet 
reflection, whatever that sufficient period of time during the day 
means. I mean, some religions require prayers several times a day. Some 
religions have prayers that are relatively long, others relatively 
short. I do not know who decides.
  I received a letter today from Reverend Barry Lynn, the Executive 
Director of Americans United, who said in his letter, ``Students 
already have an individual right to pray voluntarily in school as long 
as they are not disruptive. This resolution, however, is a radical 
departure from constitutional standards because it calls for a 
mandatory time of classroom prayer on a specific topic. This resolution 
instructs children specifically what to pray for. Under our 
constitutional separation of church and state, it is the job of parents 
and clergy, not the government, to tell children when to pray, how to 
pray and what to pray for.''
  He cites Justice Anthony Kennedy who explained in Lee v. Weisman, a 
1992 case, ``The First Amendment's religious clauses mean that 
religious beliefs and religious expression are too precious to either 
be proscribed or prescribed by the state.''
  Mr. Speaker, because we know that children can already pray and 
because this resolution has not gone through the regular process, it 
encourages school districts to violate the Constitution. It is 
ambiguous, and it uses the September 11 tragedy as an excuse to pass 
legislation which has failed in the past when subjected to the regular 
process.
  I would urge my colleagues to defeat this resolution.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the 
distinguished gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones), the author of 
this resolution.
  Mr. JONES of North Carolina. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for 
yielding me time.
  Mr. Speaker, let me say to my liberal friends on the other side, we 
very seldom agree, but I respect you. I always have and I always will. 
On this subject, I am a little bit disappointed. It is not a nonbinding 
resolution.
  We come on this floor every day and we pray. And all we are saying to 
children who are hurting badly because of September 11, because of evil 
people who have come to this country and killed their fellow Americans, 
all we are saying to fifth graders, sixth graders, seventh graders, 
that we as a Congress encourage.
  This Nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Whether people 
like it or not, before Madelyn Murray, they prayed in the schools. If 
you look at recent rulings that I am going to make reference to in just 
a moment on a Virginia case, it is coming back whether we like it or 
not.
  In a country that respects different religions, whether you are 
Muslim, whether you are Catholic, whether you are a Jew, whether you 
are Protestant, we cannot pass a nonbinding resolution to say we as a 
Congress, who pray every day, are saying to the children of America in 
a nonbinding way that America needs your prayers. Whether you are 
young, whether you are old, America is hurting and hurting badly.
  Mr. Speaker, I go back to my district like everybody on that side and 
on this side and I go into the school rooms and I listen to the 
children. At times, like my good friends on the other side who oppose 
this nonbinding resolution, I listen to the children. Whether they are 
in the high school, the elementary school or the middle school, they 
are constantly asking what is happening. The terrorists, where are they 
in this country? What will happen next? And for this body to be able to 
say to the young people, we are not telling you that you must reflect, 
we are not telling you that you must pray, but we as a Congress pray.
  The President of the United States has asked that we pray. The 
governors of the States, both liberal and conservative, have asked that 
we pray. And to have this resolution on the floor just to show support 
and encouragement to the children of America to reflect or pray, I just 
respect, again, but I do not understand the opposition to this, but I 
respect it because that is what makes America great, that we can 
disagree. I do respect that.

                              {time}  2115

  I also want to read, if I might, just a moment from the Washington 
Post, says Virginia minute of silence survives test in high court. 
Fourth circuit ruling allowed to stand without comment. Virginia's 
requirement that public school children start their day with a minute 
of silence passed constitutional muster yesterday when U.S. Supreme 
Court let stand a lower court ruling that the law does not violate the 
First Amendment. The law, which took effect last year, requires that 
all students observe a minute of quiet during which they may meditate, 
pray or engage in other silent activity.
  The law has been challenged by seven Virginia families backed by the 
volunteer lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union. They argue 
that including prayer among the approved activities violated the 
constitutional ban on State-sponsored religion and conflicted with a 
1985 ruling in an Alabama case that struck down a moment of silent law 
that also included prayer.
  The ACLU argument was rejected at every court level, and public 
schools have been observing the moment of silence since July of the 
year 2000.
  Let me say to the gentleman from California (Mr. George Miller), with 
whom I have served on the Committee on Resources and have great respect 
for his intellectual ability, as well as the other gentleman that has 
spoken, this is from a news article. It has got firemen around a flag, 
a moment of silence at ground zero. A moment of silent at ground zero.
  It says: Students pray at school events, this is 2 weeks ago, despite 
restrictions. Search for spiritual solace continues. God has made a 
comeback at the Nation's public schools as students and educators look 
for spiritual solace in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks. 
At a high school in Texas, athletes and cheerleaders and members of the 
band broke into an open recitation of the Lord's prayer as they 
gathered in the end zone before a football game last week.
  I do not know, and if I mispronounce this, please forgive me, Rancho 
Carmel, California, and the gentleman from California (Mr. George 
Miller) can tell me if I did or did not, I want to read from a minister 
named David Overstreet of the National Network of Youth Ministries in 
Rancho Carmel, California. I do not know if that is the gentleman from 
California's (Mr. George Miller) district or someone else's. Let me 
tell my colleague what he said: Our kids today are reaching out for 
something and the reality is that these kids are seeking peace, the 
real peace that is provided by God, observed Reverend David Overstreet.
  Again, I respect each and everyone that will speak in opposition to 
this nonbinding resolution, but I will say from the bottom of my heart 
that a Nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles, if America's 
future, which is the children of America, cannot be encouraged in this 
time of war and the death of over 6,000 fellow Americans to have a 
moment to reflect or a moment

[[Page H8116]]

of prayer and all we are talking about is passing a resolution, the 
sense of the Congress, it is nonbinding; but I do again respect those 
who are in opposition, and I am sure I might have another opportunity 
before we conclude.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself 1 
minute.
  Let me just say these two points. One, I have supported for a long 
time a moment of silence, and I think it is quite proper and quite 
helpful to young children. Two, this Nation was founded on Christian-
Judeo principles. It was also founded on constitutional principles; and 
we live under the Constitution, and there is a clash from time to time.
  What my colleagues do not get to do is to have the State organize the 
prayer. A moment of silence could not be more important than at this 
time, and more and more schools can do it; and as my colleague pointed 
out, the court clearly has said that that is, in fact, allowable. But 
what the schools do not get to do is they do not get to organize the 
times and conditions of that prayer as called for, and this may be 
nonbinding, but the Congress on a binding or nonbinding, they ought not 
to be calling for unconstitutional acts. That is not meeting our charge 
under our responsibilities in this office.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield 8 minutes to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. 
Edwards).
  Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Speaker, as a person of faith, I believe in the 
power of prayer. Like millions of Americans, I have prayed often for 
the victims of the terrorist attacks of September 11, and my prayers 
tonight are also with America's servicemen and -women now in harm's way 
in our war against terrorism.
  What makes our Nation different, what makes our Nation different from 
Afghanistan is that in America citizens do not need their government to 
tell them when and how to pray. The millions and millions of prayers 
offered up by Americans since September 11 did not occur because the 
Federal Government dictated or suggested them to do so in legislation. 
Rather, those prayers occurred because of citizens' personal faith and 
choice to pray. That is as it should be in a free society.
  One might ask, well, what could be wrong with a congressional 
resolution suggesting that public schools should set aside time for 
prayer or quiet reflection for our Nation? I would suggest there are 
several things wrong with this resolution.
  First, in the first amendment to our Constitution, our Founding 
Fathers made it clear that government involvement in religion should be 
considered with the utmost care. In fact, they dedicated the first 16 
words of the Bill of Rights to the principle that religion is a private 
matter, not a government responsibility.
  Whether one supports or opposes this resolution, to bring legislation 
to this House floor that deals with the fundamental matter of religion 
and prayer, without a single committee hearing, without any testimony, 
is wrong. In my opinion, such a frivolous handling of the issue of 
prayer demeans the sanctity of religious faith.
  Second, this resolution may or may not be constitutional. The 
gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) does not know for sure. This 
resolution is worded differently from the Virginia law. Would it not be 
better to discuss those vital questions in a committee hearing of 
constitutional scholars before we vote on this matter on the floor of 
the House rather than after?
  Third, this resolution sets a dangerous precedent by suggesting what 
the subject should be of school children's prayers. As a parent, I want 
my children to pray for our Nation in this time of need; but as a 
citizen, I will say here and everywhere, that the U.S. Congress has 
absolutely no right telling my children how to pray. The Federal 
Government and this House has no business telling any citizen, much 
less children, what the subject of their prayers should be.
  If the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones), President Bush or I 
want to encourage others to pray for our Nation, there is nothing wrong 
with that; but there is something terribly wrong with the United States 
Congress passing legislation that tells my children what they should 
pray about in a public, tax-supported school. The gentleman from North 
Carolina (Mr. Jones) has no right to tell my children or anyone else's 
children how, when or about what they should pray.
  In addition, this resolution refers to former President Eisenhower's 
description of religion and prayers as ``spiritual weapons.'' I have 
great respect for President Eisenhower, but millions of Americans of 
deep faith might not agree that religion and prayer should be thought 
of as ``weapons.''
  Does this Congress really have the wisdom and the constitutional 
authority to start dictating or suggesting the subject of school 
children's private prayers? If so, are we then to set up a 
congressional committee, vote on what subjects are and are not 
appropriate for prayer in public schools? It seems to me that process 
would be more appropriate in the Taliban's Afghanistan than in the 
United States.
  The fourth problem is that this resolution says ``a sufficient period 
of time'' should be allowed for prayer or quiet reflection in our 
schools. Does this resolution envision Federal, State or local 
governments having debates on what is ``sufficient time to pray"? To 
someone, a 1-minute prayer might be appropriate. In many religions, a 
1-minute prayer would be considered superficial. To Muslim children, 
only one prayer a day would be considered sacrilegious.
  Under the recent Supreme Court decision the gentleman from North 
Carolina (Mr. Jones) addressed, schools will face complex and difficult 
decisions in determining whether or how to establish time for prayer 
and meditation. Congress should not complicate that matter tonight for 
local schools by getting into the debate of defining what is 
``sufficient'' time to pray and what the subject of children's prayers, 
however well intentioned, should be.
  Mr. Speaker, it is already legal for children to pray in school. No 
law, no government body has the power to outlaw private prayer. 
Children may already pray quietly in the classroom or out loud before 
and after school. They may pray out loud during their lunch periods 
during school. The only prohibition, and rightly so, is against 
government-organized, government-sanctioned prayers in our public 
schools.
  Mr. Speaker, another serious objection I have to this legislation is 
that it frankly implies that congressional action is needed to 
encourage American citizens to pray. Nothing could be further from the 
truth.
  All of human history, including the world today, has proven that 
religion and prayer flourish best when politicians and government stay 
out of our matters of personal faith. It was wrong when House 
Republicans in the last Congress tried to pass a similar resolution 
dictating that it was the ``necessary duty'' of Americans to pray. 
Fortunately, that measure failed.
  My hope is that Members of this House will recognize that it is just 
as wrong to dictate to school children or to even suggest to school 
children through legislative action of this Congress the subject of 
their prayers.
  Mr. Speaker, this legislation is unnecessary at best. At worst it 
raises serious constitutional questions and sets the dangerous 
precedent of Congress suggesting the subject of our children's prayers.
  As an individual, I hope that American citizens will continue to pray 
for our Nation; but as a matter of conscience, those prayers should be 
their choice, not Congress', not the gentleman from North Carolina's 
(Mr. Jones), and not mine.
  Americans do not want and Americans do not need government getting 
involved in our prayers or our personal faith. Vote ``no'' on this 
resolution.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, could the Chair advise both sides of the 
remaining time, please.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Forbes). The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. 
Isakson) has 6 minutes remaining. The gentleman from California (Mr. 
George Miller) has 5 minutes remaining.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to yield 3 minutes to the 
gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones).
  Mr. JONES of North Carolina. Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the 
gentleman from Texas (Mr. Edwards) that, again, whether my colleague 
agrees or disagrees, this is nonbinding. It does not have the power of 
the law behind it. It is just for the Congress to make a statement to 
the children of America.

[[Page H8117]]

  I have three military bases in my district. I have Camp Lejeune 
Marine Base in Jacksonville, I have Cherry Point Marine Air Station, 
and Seymour Air Force Base; and I go to a lot of the schools where kids 
have parents in uniform; and I know the questions and concerns they 
have been asking since September 11. If by chance, whether this 
resolution passes or not, if by chance the children will have that 
moment to reflect or whatever they might do, I am telling my colleague 
it is just extremely important.
  Let me share one thing with my colleagues that Billy Graham, who is a 
well-known man of our Lord and Savior, his daughter Ann was on the CBS 
Early Morning Show, and Jane Clayson asked her and I will read this, 
Mr. Speaker, how could God let something like this happen. Ann Graham 
gave an extremely profound and insightful response, and I would like to 
read her response.
  She said, I believe that God is deeply saddened by this just as we 
but for years we have been telling God to get out of the schools, to 
get out of the government and to get out of our lives. She further 
stated, In being the gentleman that He is, meaning God, I believe that 
He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His 
blessings and His protections if we demand that He leaves us alone. 
That is one person's opinion.

                              {time}  2130

  The point I am trying to make, Mr. Speaker, is that again, I am just 
one Member of 435. I think it is important that this Congress in a 
nonbinding way say that we understand that the children of America are 
hurting, and if the children of America would like to have a moment of 
prayer or a moment to reflect, then God bless the children of America.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to 
the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Edwards).
  Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Speaker, let me first respond to the statement of 
the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones). He said, ``God has made 
a comeback in our schools.'' Frankly, the God I pray to never left the 
schools. And the God I pray to is so powerful that no government body 
in any nation has the ability to take God or prayers out of our 
schools.
  The gentleman, it is interesting, talks about the importance of this 
resolution and says it is a nonbinding resolution. Well, the gentleman 
needs to make up his mind. If it has no impact, perhaps we should not 
be taking the time of the Congress tonight to debate it. But if it does 
have impact, I would argue the case, with which many religious 
conservative organizations, including many Christian organizations in 
this country, that would agree with my position that government ought 
not to be suggesting or dictating prayers; and especially should not be 
dictating what the content of American citizens and school children's 
prayers should be.
  The fact is, if Members read the resolution, it does not just say 
schools should consider as one option possible prayers. Schools should, 
should set aside a sufficient period of time. That word is with all of 
the authority and respect that the institution and the United States 
Congress might have in this country.
  It also, by the way, talks about what to pray for. It does not 
mention, as the gentleman from California (Mr. George Miller) 
mentioned, silent prayers or out-loud prayers. If silent, that is not 
what this resolution says. If these prayers are out loud, my question 
is, who is going to decide in the classroom whose prayer is heard and 
what prayer is given. Are we going to have third graders deciding who 
is going to give the prayer on the subject that Congress has suggested 
they should pray about?
  It would be helpful before the end of the debate if the gentleman 
could answer the question raised by the gentleman from California (Mr. 
George Miller) as to whether his resolution contemplates prayers being 
given out loud in our classrooms. If so, I would suggest that raises 
use constitutional questions. If not, then the gentleman needs to 
rewrite his resolution, which is exactly why we should have had a 
committee hearing on an issue of such great importance.
  This resolution should not be on the floor of the House tonight.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes 
to the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott).
  Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to say I do not question 
the sincerity of the gentleman from North Carolina. He is a man of 
principle. We are talking about the resolution, not talking about the 
distinguished gentleman from North Carolina.
  This is a controversial resolution. It might be constitutional; it 
might not. If we worked on it consistent with the Virginia supreme 
court case, we might make it constitutional, but it is very 
controversial. It prescribes what the prayer is. Therefore, it ought 
not, without any hearings at all, be adopted.
  Mr. Speaker, if we want to help our children, we might help them by 
having school psychologists in the school. Child health care with 
mental health parity, I think that would help the children. Smaller 
class sizes, that would help the children. There are a lot of ways we 
can help the children rather than spending time on the floor of the 
House debating a resolution such as this.
  I would hope that we defeat the resolution and not suspend the rules.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such 
time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I grew up as a Catholic believing that God was all-
knowing and ever-present; and it was not until I came to Congress and 
listened to these debates that I thought anybody would ever believe 
that a superintendent of schools or a teacher or a congressman could 
separate me from my God.
  My God was always present. I could reach out and converse with God, 
rely on God, pray to God. Then I came to the Congress, and there were 
Members saying people could drive God out of school, drive God out of 
Congress, drive God out of here, drive God out of there. Maybe, I do 
not know; but it was never the God I understood that would travel with 
me throughout my life, that would always be there for me.
  I find it interesting that somehow people believe children's faith is 
so weak that it can be dismissed like that by some school official, 
despite the teachings of their families, church and peers. I find it 
interesting that somehow God just disappears. It is an incredible 
statement that I do not understand regarding the underestimation of the 
American people's faith in their God.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time.
  Mr. Speaker, I commend the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) 
for bringing this resolution, I commend the gentleman from Virginia, 
the gentleman from Texas, the gentleman from New Jersey, and the 
gentleman from California.
  I am not a religious philosopher by any stretch, and I would not 
stretch to say I am a constitutional expert. But I am reminded, as I 
listen to this debate, that it is one of the reasons I am most proud to 
be an American. Both the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) and 
the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Smith) and the gentlemen on the 
other side have raised the consciousness of our country in this debate. 
Their arguments are not based on grounds that are against religion. 
They are based on the fundamentals and protection of religion, as our 
Constitution intends it to be, and I respect that.
  I am somewhat reminded of a quote from Floyd Patterson shortly before 
he went into the ring to fight a title bout for the heavyweight 
championship of the world. Known to be a religious man, he was asked by 
a sportswriter, ``Mr. Patterson, is God on your side?'' And he said, 
``I only hope God knows I am on his side.''
  Regardless of the opinions in this debate, it is my conclusive belief 
that every Member of Congress falls in that same category as Mr. 
Patterson. While we may have differences on the intent of this 
legislation, it is patently clear it is permissive, not mandatory; 
respectful, not dictatorial; and it recognizes that at a time and place 
of tragedy in our country, it is only appropriate that America's 
children have the opportunity in their own way to reflect or to pray.
  Mr. Speaker, I commend the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) 
and those on both sides of the

[[Page H8118]]

debate. I urge Members to adopt the resolution.
  Mr. BOEHNER. Mr. Speaker, I am proud to support House Concurrent 
Resolution 239.
  The atrocities committed against the United States on September 11, 
the ongoing threats to our national security, and the realization that 
ordinary Americans can be targets in the struggle against the forces of 
domestic and international terrorism have left our Nation searching for 
comfort. They have also led many of us to pray and reflect on behalf of 
the Nation, each in our own way, and according to our own understanding 
of God. When events occur that confound and enrage and hurt us so 
deeply, it is natural for humankind, and Americans especially, to take 
time to seek wisdom and consolation from the Creator. I believe such 
times of spirituality are something to be encouraged, especially among 
our children.
  This House Concurrent Resolution makes clear Congress's support that 
America's schools should set aside a sufficient period of time to allow 
children to pray for, or quietly reflect on behalf of, the Nation 
during the difficult days we now face. I believe such ``moments of 
silence'' merely given students a choice--not a mandate--to pray and 
reflect, and are not only constitutional, but also consistent with this 
Nation's heritage of recognizing that America is indeed ``one Nation 
under God,'' as so many students around this great land recite each 
school day.
  As President Eisenhower once said, referring to the reference to God 
in the Pledge of Allegiance, our Nation is one that reaffirms ``the 
transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in 
this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which 
forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and 
war.'' It is appropriate that our schools encourage their students to 
seek comfort and answers--and strength--in their faith.
  I urge my colleagues to support House Concurrent Resolution 239.
  Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Forbes). The question is on the motion 
offered by the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Isakson) that the House 
suspend the rules and agree to the concurrent resolution, H. Con. Res. 
239.
  The question was taken.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. In the opinion of the Chair, two-thirds of 
those present have voted in the affirmative.
  Mr. JONES of North Carolina. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas 
and nays.
  The yeas and nays were ordered.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 8 of rule XX and the 
Chair's prior announcement, further proceedings on this motion will be 
postponed.

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