[Congressional Record Volume 147, Number 156 (Tuesday, November 13, 2001)]
[House]
[Pages H8113-H8118]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
SENSE OF CONGRESS THAT SCHOOLS SHOULD SET ASIDE TIME TO ALLOW CHILDREN
TO PRAY FOR, OR QUIETLY REFLECT ON BEHALF OF THE NATION DURING THIS
TIME OF STRUGGLE
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I move to suspend the rules and agree to
the concurrent resolution (H. Con. Res. 239) expressing the sense of
Congress that schools in the United States should set aside a
sufficient period of time to allow children to pray for, or quietly
reflect on behalf of, the Nation during this time of struggle against
the forces of international terrorism.
The Clerk read as follows:
H. Con. Res. 239
Whereas section 4 of title 4, United States Code,
establishes the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and
describes such Pledge as including the phrase ``one Nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all'';
Whereas in 1954 President Dwight D. Eisenhower, referring
to the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance to the
Flag, said that the Nation had reaffirmed ``the transcendence
of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this
way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons
which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in
peace and war''; and
Whereas President George W. Bush has asked the people of
the United States to pray for those who suffered as a result
of the atrocities committed against the United States on
September 11, 2001: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate
concurring), That it is the sense of Congress that schools in
the United States should set aside a sufficient period of
time to allow children to pray for, or quietly reflect on
behalf of, the Nation during this time of struggle against
the forces of international terrorism.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to the rule, the gentleman from
Georgia (Mr. Isakson) and the gentleman from California (Mr. George
Miller) each will control 20 minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Isakson).
General Leave
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all Members
may have 5 legislative days within which to revise and extend their
remarks on House Concurrent Resolution 239.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the
gentleman from Georgia?
There was no objection.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, this resolution encourages and does not require the
schools of
[[Page H8114]]
America to set aside a sufficient period of time for children in
America to pray for or reflect on our Nation in this time of battle and
tribulation because of the terrorist acts.
Mr. Speaker, I am confident that there will be those who express
concern that prayer and schools might be mentioned in the same
resolution, but at the outset of this debate it should be quite clear
that this is clearly an option and not a mandate.
A lot of things have become quite clear in the United States of
America since September 11. It has become politically correct to sing
God Bless America rather than fight songs at athletic events. All of us
have reflected passionately and quietly and, many times, sadly on the
blessings we have individually received and the blessings of this
Nation. But we should be vigilant, even in the most terrible trying
times possible, to recognize and preserve the constitutional freedoms
that make this country great.
Our Constitution prohibits us in this government from establishing
religion, but it preserves forever the right of Americans to practice
their religion.
{time} 2100
Mr. Speaker, there have been many great enemies to the citizens of
America in our history. From 1950 through the early 1990s the Soviet
Union was one. That was a government that believed that prayer and
religion should be nonexistent, and it was basically a cornerstone of
that nation. They built an Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe. They
preserved themselves for 40 years or a little over, but eventually they
died.
On the other extreme there is America's enemy today, the Taliban,
that not only establish a religion but force its practice, and only its
practice, with the most horrible of retribution to anybody that thinks
or meditates differently.
Mr. Speaker, the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) has
brought to this House a resolution which falls clearly in between those
two extremes and precisely why the United States of America was founded
in the first place. The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) has
asked and is asking this house to adopt a resolution that says to our
schools, it is appropriate if you choose to establish a period of time,
if you will, for those who would pray for our Nation in this time of
trouble, to do so in the way they see fit, voluntarily, and for others
to reflect on this Nation in our time of peril and distress.
It mandates nothing. It requires nothing. But it recognizes as the
motto above the chair of the Speaker which states that in the America
we founded, we place the trust in our people, that they could freely
worship in the way they saw fit, pay tribute to the God of their
choice, and enjoy living in a nation where they had sufficient time to
practice their faith their way.
Mr. Speaker, I encourage the Members of this House to adopt this
concurrent resolution.
Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such
time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, while no one can quarrel with what the supporters of
this resolution suggest they want, and that is for reflection and time
for children to consider what is going on in this country, once we
suggest that the school is going to set aside time for the children to
pray or reflect quietly, it does not say that they shall pray quietly,
it does not say they shall pray silently, I believe we are now treading
into the question of the school setting the content of that prayer.
There is nothing today that prevents schoolchildren from praying
voluntarily at their own time on behalf of this Nation or people in
harm or the victims of terrorism; but what we should not do is, we
should not have the school dictating that should take place at an
appointed time and place.
If the schools want to have a moment of silence, the child may then
pick that moment of silence to reflect in any manner or pray in any
manner that they want, but this resolution goes beyond that. I am
afraid that this resolution is really about, once again, trying to
introduce some form of content or prayer into the schools under the
guise of the tragedies of September 11 and the events that have
occurred since then. We should really not do that.
We should really understand that we are very clear about the rights
of children to pray in school. If the student groups meet on student
property, then religious groups have an equal right to meet on school
property and to pray; and the courts have protected students'
individual rights to pray in a nondisruptive manner and have approved
attempts by school districts to accommodate students in this
resolution.
But this resolution is different than that, because while it is
voluntary from the Congress and it is voluntary for the school to do
it, but once the school sets aside time to pray for the country in that
manner, then I believe they have crossed the line.
I wish that we would understand that we have every right to call for
people to reflect and to pray in the interest in this country; and they
will or they will not. Hopefully they have, and millions and millions
of Americans and their children and their families have made that
decision to pray in their places of worship, to pray around the dinner
table, to pray in their homes before they go to sleep at night or when
they first wake up in the morning or whatever suits them. I hope that
that would continue.
But I think that this resolution is mistaken. And I think that this
resolution is ill-considered and I would hope that the Congress would
not pass it.
Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from New
Jersey (Mr. Smith).
Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. Mr. Speaker, I rise in very strong support
of H. Con. Res. 239, a timely and very necessary call for prayer and/or
spiritual reflection during this time of extreme challenge.
Mr. Speaker, as the father of four, I know that kids have vexing
questions and myriad doubts and concerns over the recent spate of
horrific terrorist acts. In the minds of many of our young people and
in the minds of the old alike, cruelty, mass murder, terrorism defy
easy answers. It seems to me that prayer or spiritual reflection in all
venues, not just in the church, not just at home, but in all venues,
including school, fosters healing and fosters reconciliation.
The why of it, the questions concerning the essence of good and evil
defy simply logic. To understand the depravity of September 11 requires
all of us to look deeply at the hearts and at matters spiritual.
The gentleman from North Carolina's (Mr. Jones) modest call for
prayer or, and I emphasize the word ``or,'' quiet reflection is a
positive, constructive, liberating and very necessary thing. Our young
people need encouragement to pray and they need encouragement to
reflect.
Frankly, I find it bewildering and disappointing that this modest
proposal should engender any opposition at all. There is nothing
dangerous or risky about encouraging and even admonishing children to
pray and to reflect. The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) does
not prescribe any specific prayer, nor is there anything in this
resolution concerning specific content.
I would hope that our children would be inspired not only to pray,
but to pray for wisdom and understanding and strength, and also to pray
for the victims and their families and their friends. There are a lot
of hurting people out there. They need prayer. And I think we should
encourage our kids to pray.
I would hope America's young people would pray for reconciliations
among people of disparate and often conflicting perspectives, and to
pray for justice for those who perpetrate these crimes and cruelty.
Mr. Speaker, prayer and spiritual reflection are as necessary as food
and oxygen, and without it, our kids are deprived of the most essential
element in building character. This is an excellent resolution and I
hope we get a unanimous vote.
Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield 4 minutes to
the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott).
Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me time.
Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in the wake of September 11 and we are
using the tragedy to pass controversial legislation. It is not the
first time, of
[[Page H8115]]
course. Just a few days ago we repealed the alternative minimum tax, a
tax on corporations who have loopholes and deductions and were paying
no tax at all. We had an alternative minimum tax for them to pay, and
under the name of economic stimulus, this House voted to repeal that
tax.
In the name of airline security in the wake of September 11, we had a
bill that included tort reform that had been defeated year after year.
In the name of antiterrorist crime legislation, we had wiretap
authority that applied to cases that had nothing to do with terrorism,
in fact, in some cases had nothing to do with any alleged crime. And we
passed excessive wiretap authority in the wake of September 11.
Now we are using September 11 to try to pass prayer in public school.
The last time we had hearings on the issue of prayer in public school,
we had deliberations, subcommittee and committee, and when it came to
the floor, it was defeated. It was defeated because we know that
children can already pray in public school today. They have that
option. They do not need the bill. They can pray. If the teacher passes
out a math test, they can pray. Before the meal, they can say grace.
That is okay. That is allowed today.
What we cannot do is instruct the children to pray whether they want
to or not. This resolution not only tells them to pray, but tells them
what to pray for, and reserves, according to the resolution, a
sufficient period of time during the day for prayer or quiet
reflection, whatever that sufficient period of time during the day
means. I mean, some religions require prayers several times a day. Some
religions have prayers that are relatively long, others relatively
short. I do not know who decides.
I received a letter today from Reverend Barry Lynn, the Executive
Director of Americans United, who said in his letter, ``Students
already have an individual right to pray voluntarily in school as long
as they are not disruptive. This resolution, however, is a radical
departure from constitutional standards because it calls for a
mandatory time of classroom prayer on a specific topic. This resolution
instructs children specifically what to pray for. Under our
constitutional separation of church and state, it is the job of parents
and clergy, not the government, to tell children when to pray, how to
pray and what to pray for.''
He cites Justice Anthony Kennedy who explained in Lee v. Weisman, a
1992 case, ``The First Amendment's religious clauses mean that
religious beliefs and religious expression are too precious to either
be proscribed or prescribed by the state.''
Mr. Speaker, because we know that children can already pray and
because this resolution has not gone through the regular process, it
encourages school districts to violate the Constitution. It is
ambiguous, and it uses the September 11 tragedy as an excuse to pass
legislation which has failed in the past when subjected to the regular
process.
I would urge my colleagues to defeat this resolution.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the
distinguished gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones), the author of
this resolution.
Mr. JONES of North Carolina. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for
yielding me time.
Mr. Speaker, let me say to my liberal friends on the other side, we
very seldom agree, but I respect you. I always have and I always will.
On this subject, I am a little bit disappointed. It is not a nonbinding
resolution.
We come on this floor every day and we pray. And all we are saying to
children who are hurting badly because of September 11, because of evil
people who have come to this country and killed their fellow Americans,
all we are saying to fifth graders, sixth graders, seventh graders,
that we as a Congress encourage.
This Nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Whether people
like it or not, before Madelyn Murray, they prayed in the schools. If
you look at recent rulings that I am going to make reference to in just
a moment on a Virginia case, it is coming back whether we like it or
not.
In a country that respects different religions, whether you are
Muslim, whether you are Catholic, whether you are a Jew, whether you
are Protestant, we cannot pass a nonbinding resolution to say we as a
Congress, who pray every day, are saying to the children of America in
a nonbinding way that America needs your prayers. Whether you are
young, whether you are old, America is hurting and hurting badly.
Mr. Speaker, I go back to my district like everybody on that side and
on this side and I go into the school rooms and I listen to the
children. At times, like my good friends on the other side who oppose
this nonbinding resolution, I listen to the children. Whether they are
in the high school, the elementary school or the middle school, they
are constantly asking what is happening. The terrorists, where are they
in this country? What will happen next? And for this body to be able to
say to the young people, we are not telling you that you must reflect,
we are not telling you that you must pray, but we as a Congress pray.
The President of the United States has asked that we pray. The
governors of the States, both liberal and conservative, have asked that
we pray. And to have this resolution on the floor just to show support
and encouragement to the children of America to reflect or pray, I just
respect, again, but I do not understand the opposition to this, but I
respect it because that is what makes America great, that we can
disagree. I do respect that.
{time} 2115
I also want to read, if I might, just a moment from the Washington
Post, says Virginia minute of silence survives test in high court.
Fourth circuit ruling allowed to stand without comment. Virginia's
requirement that public school children start their day with a minute
of silence passed constitutional muster yesterday when U.S. Supreme
Court let stand a lower court ruling that the law does not violate the
First Amendment. The law, which took effect last year, requires that
all students observe a minute of quiet during which they may meditate,
pray or engage in other silent activity.
The law has been challenged by seven Virginia families backed by the
volunteer lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union. They argue
that including prayer among the approved activities violated the
constitutional ban on State-sponsored religion and conflicted with a
1985 ruling in an Alabama case that struck down a moment of silent law
that also included prayer.
The ACLU argument was rejected at every court level, and public
schools have been observing the moment of silence since July of the
year 2000.
Let me say to the gentleman from California (Mr. George Miller), with
whom I have served on the Committee on Resources and have great respect
for his intellectual ability, as well as the other gentleman that has
spoken, this is from a news article. It has got firemen around a flag,
a moment of silence at ground zero. A moment of silent at ground zero.
It says: Students pray at school events, this is 2 weeks ago, despite
restrictions. Search for spiritual solace continues. God has made a
comeback at the Nation's public schools as students and educators look
for spiritual solace in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks.
At a high school in Texas, athletes and cheerleaders and members of the
band broke into an open recitation of the Lord's prayer as they
gathered in the end zone before a football game last week.
I do not know, and if I mispronounce this, please forgive me, Rancho
Carmel, California, and the gentleman from California (Mr. George
Miller) can tell me if I did or did not, I want to read from a minister
named David Overstreet of the National Network of Youth Ministries in
Rancho Carmel, California. I do not know if that is the gentleman from
California's (Mr. George Miller) district or someone else's. Let me
tell my colleague what he said: Our kids today are reaching out for
something and the reality is that these kids are seeking peace, the
real peace that is provided by God, observed Reverend David Overstreet.
Again, I respect each and everyone that will speak in opposition to
this nonbinding resolution, but I will say from the bottom of my heart
that a Nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles, if America's
future, which is the children of America, cannot be encouraged in this
time of war and the death of over 6,000 fellow Americans to have a
moment to reflect or a moment
[[Page H8116]]
of prayer and all we are talking about is passing a resolution, the
sense of the Congress, it is nonbinding; but I do again respect those
who are in opposition, and I am sure I might have another opportunity
before we conclude.
Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself 1
minute.
Let me just say these two points. One, I have supported for a long
time a moment of silence, and I think it is quite proper and quite
helpful to young children. Two, this Nation was founded on Christian-
Judeo principles. It was also founded on constitutional principles; and
we live under the Constitution, and there is a clash from time to time.
What my colleagues do not get to do is to have the State organize the
prayer. A moment of silence could not be more important than at this
time, and more and more schools can do it; and as my colleague pointed
out, the court clearly has said that that is, in fact, allowable. But
what the schools do not get to do is they do not get to organize the
times and conditions of that prayer as called for, and this may be
nonbinding, but the Congress on a binding or nonbinding, they ought not
to be calling for unconstitutional acts. That is not meeting our charge
under our responsibilities in this office.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 8 minutes to the gentleman from Texas (Mr.
Edwards).
Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Speaker, as a person of faith, I believe in the
power of prayer. Like millions of Americans, I have prayed often for
the victims of the terrorist attacks of September 11, and my prayers
tonight are also with America's servicemen and -women now in harm's way
in our war against terrorism.
What makes our Nation different, what makes our Nation different from
Afghanistan is that in America citizens do not need their government to
tell them when and how to pray. The millions and millions of prayers
offered up by Americans since September 11 did not occur because the
Federal Government dictated or suggested them to do so in legislation.
Rather, those prayers occurred because of citizens' personal faith and
choice to pray. That is as it should be in a free society.
One might ask, well, what could be wrong with a congressional
resolution suggesting that public schools should set aside time for
prayer or quiet reflection for our Nation? I would suggest there are
several things wrong with this resolution.
First, in the first amendment to our Constitution, our Founding
Fathers made it clear that government involvement in religion should be
considered with the utmost care. In fact, they dedicated the first 16
words of the Bill of Rights to the principle that religion is a private
matter, not a government responsibility.
Whether one supports or opposes this resolution, to bring legislation
to this House floor that deals with the fundamental matter of religion
and prayer, without a single committee hearing, without any testimony,
is wrong. In my opinion, such a frivolous handling of the issue of
prayer demeans the sanctity of religious faith.
Second, this resolution may or may not be constitutional. The
gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) does not know for sure. This
resolution is worded differently from the Virginia law. Would it not be
better to discuss those vital questions in a committee hearing of
constitutional scholars before we vote on this matter on the floor of
the House rather than after?
Third, this resolution sets a dangerous precedent by suggesting what
the subject should be of school children's prayers. As a parent, I want
my children to pray for our Nation in this time of need; but as a
citizen, I will say here and everywhere, that the U.S. Congress has
absolutely no right telling my children how to pray. The Federal
Government and this House has no business telling any citizen, much
less children, what the subject of their prayers should be.
If the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones), President Bush or I
want to encourage others to pray for our Nation, there is nothing wrong
with that; but there is something terribly wrong with the United States
Congress passing legislation that tells my children what they should
pray about in a public, tax-supported school. The gentleman from North
Carolina (Mr. Jones) has no right to tell my children or anyone else's
children how, when or about what they should pray.
In addition, this resolution refers to former President Eisenhower's
description of religion and prayers as ``spiritual weapons.'' I have
great respect for President Eisenhower, but millions of Americans of
deep faith might not agree that religion and prayer should be thought
of as ``weapons.''
Does this Congress really have the wisdom and the constitutional
authority to start dictating or suggesting the subject of school
children's private prayers? If so, are we then to set up a
congressional committee, vote on what subjects are and are not
appropriate for prayer in public schools? It seems to me that process
would be more appropriate in the Taliban's Afghanistan than in the
United States.
The fourth problem is that this resolution says ``a sufficient period
of time'' should be allowed for prayer or quiet reflection in our
schools. Does this resolution envision Federal, State or local
governments having debates on what is ``sufficient time to pray"? To
someone, a 1-minute prayer might be appropriate. In many religions, a
1-minute prayer would be considered superficial. To Muslim children,
only one prayer a day would be considered sacrilegious.
Under the recent Supreme Court decision the gentleman from North
Carolina (Mr. Jones) addressed, schools will face complex and difficult
decisions in determining whether or how to establish time for prayer
and meditation. Congress should not complicate that matter tonight for
local schools by getting into the debate of defining what is
``sufficient'' time to pray and what the subject of children's prayers,
however well intentioned, should be.
Mr. Speaker, it is already legal for children to pray in school. No
law, no government body has the power to outlaw private prayer.
Children may already pray quietly in the classroom or out loud before
and after school. They may pray out loud during their lunch periods
during school. The only prohibition, and rightly so, is against
government-organized, government-sanctioned prayers in our public
schools.
Mr. Speaker, another serious objection I have to this legislation is
that it frankly implies that congressional action is needed to
encourage American citizens to pray. Nothing could be further from the
truth.
All of human history, including the world today, has proven that
religion and prayer flourish best when politicians and government stay
out of our matters of personal faith. It was wrong when House
Republicans in the last Congress tried to pass a similar resolution
dictating that it was the ``necessary duty'' of Americans to pray.
Fortunately, that measure failed.
My hope is that Members of this House will recognize that it is just
as wrong to dictate to school children or to even suggest to school
children through legislative action of this Congress the subject of
their prayers.
Mr. Speaker, this legislation is unnecessary at best. At worst it
raises serious constitutional questions and sets the dangerous
precedent of Congress suggesting the subject of our children's prayers.
As an individual, I hope that American citizens will continue to pray
for our Nation; but as a matter of conscience, those prayers should be
their choice, not Congress', not the gentleman from North Carolina's
(Mr. Jones), and not mine.
Americans do not want and Americans do not need government getting
involved in our prayers or our personal faith. Vote ``no'' on this
resolution.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, could the Chair advise both sides of the
remaining time, please.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Forbes). The gentleman from Georgia (Mr.
Isakson) has 6 minutes remaining. The gentleman from California (Mr.
George Miller) has 5 minutes remaining.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to yield 3 minutes to the
gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones).
Mr. JONES of North Carolina. Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the
gentleman from Texas (Mr. Edwards) that, again, whether my colleague
agrees or disagrees, this is nonbinding. It does not have the power of
the law behind it. It is just for the Congress to make a statement to
the children of America.
[[Page H8117]]
I have three military bases in my district. I have Camp Lejeune
Marine Base in Jacksonville, I have Cherry Point Marine Air Station,
and Seymour Air Force Base; and I go to a lot of the schools where kids
have parents in uniform; and I know the questions and concerns they
have been asking since September 11. If by chance, whether this
resolution passes or not, if by chance the children will have that
moment to reflect or whatever they might do, I am telling my colleague
it is just extremely important.
Let me share one thing with my colleagues that Billy Graham, who is a
well-known man of our Lord and Savior, his daughter Ann was on the CBS
Early Morning Show, and Jane Clayson asked her and I will read this,
Mr. Speaker, how could God let something like this happen. Ann Graham
gave an extremely profound and insightful response, and I would like to
read her response.
She said, I believe that God is deeply saddened by this just as we
but for years we have been telling God to get out of the schools, to
get out of the government and to get out of our lives. She further
stated, In being the gentleman that He is, meaning God, I believe that
He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His
blessings and His protections if we demand that He leaves us alone.
That is one person's opinion.
{time} 2130
The point I am trying to make, Mr. Speaker, is that again, I am just
one Member of 435. I think it is important that this Congress in a
nonbinding way say that we understand that the children of America are
hurting, and if the children of America would like to have a moment of
prayer or a moment to reflect, then God bless the children of America.
Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to
the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Edwards).
Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Speaker, let me first respond to the statement of
the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones). He said, ``God has made
a comeback in our schools.'' Frankly, the God I pray to never left the
schools. And the God I pray to is so powerful that no government body
in any nation has the ability to take God or prayers out of our
schools.
The gentleman, it is interesting, talks about the importance of this
resolution and says it is a nonbinding resolution. Well, the gentleman
needs to make up his mind. If it has no impact, perhaps we should not
be taking the time of the Congress tonight to debate it. But if it does
have impact, I would argue the case, with which many religious
conservative organizations, including many Christian organizations in
this country, that would agree with my position that government ought
not to be suggesting or dictating prayers; and especially should not be
dictating what the content of American citizens and school children's
prayers should be.
The fact is, if Members read the resolution, it does not just say
schools should consider as one option possible prayers. Schools should,
should set aside a sufficient period of time. That word is with all of
the authority and respect that the institution and the United States
Congress might have in this country.
It also, by the way, talks about what to pray for. It does not
mention, as the gentleman from California (Mr. George Miller)
mentioned, silent prayers or out-loud prayers. If silent, that is not
what this resolution says. If these prayers are out loud, my question
is, who is going to decide in the classroom whose prayer is heard and
what prayer is given. Are we going to have third graders deciding who
is going to give the prayer on the subject that Congress has suggested
they should pray about?
It would be helpful before the end of the debate if the gentleman
could answer the question raised by the gentleman from California (Mr.
George Miller) as to whether his resolution contemplates prayers being
given out loud in our classrooms. If so, I would suggest that raises
use constitutional questions. If not, then the gentleman needs to
rewrite his resolution, which is exactly why we should have had a
committee hearing on an issue of such great importance.
This resolution should not be on the floor of the House tonight.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes
to the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott).
Mr. SCOTT. Mr. Speaker, first of all, I want to say I do not question
the sincerity of the gentleman from North Carolina. He is a man of
principle. We are talking about the resolution, not talking about the
distinguished gentleman from North Carolina.
This is a controversial resolution. It might be constitutional; it
might not. If we worked on it consistent with the Virginia supreme
court case, we might make it constitutional, but it is very
controversial. It prescribes what the prayer is. Therefore, it ought
not, without any hearings at all, be adopted.
Mr. Speaker, if we want to help our children, we might help them by
having school psychologists in the school. Child health care with
mental health parity, I think that would help the children. Smaller
class sizes, that would help the children. There are a lot of ways we
can help the children rather than spending time on the floor of the
House debating a resolution such as this.
I would hope that we defeat the resolution and not suspend the rules.
Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such
time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, I grew up as a Catholic believing that God was all-
knowing and ever-present; and it was not until I came to Congress and
listened to these debates that I thought anybody would ever believe
that a superintendent of schools or a teacher or a congressman could
separate me from my God.
My God was always present. I could reach out and converse with God,
rely on God, pray to God. Then I came to the Congress, and there were
Members saying people could drive God out of school, drive God out of
Congress, drive God out of here, drive God out of there. Maybe, I do
not know; but it was never the God I understood that would travel with
me throughout my life, that would always be there for me.
I find it interesting that somehow people believe children's faith is
so weak that it can be dismissed like that by some school official,
despite the teachings of their families, church and peers. I find it
interesting that somehow God just disappears. It is an incredible
statement that I do not understand regarding the underestimation of the
American people's faith in their God.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time.
Mr. Speaker, I commend the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones)
for bringing this resolution, I commend the gentleman from Virginia,
the gentleman from Texas, the gentleman from New Jersey, and the
gentleman from California.
I am not a religious philosopher by any stretch, and I would not
stretch to say I am a constitutional expert. But I am reminded, as I
listen to this debate, that it is one of the reasons I am most proud to
be an American. Both the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones) and
the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Smith) and the gentlemen on the
other side have raised the consciousness of our country in this debate.
Their arguments are not based on grounds that are against religion.
They are based on the fundamentals and protection of religion, as our
Constitution intends it to be, and I respect that.
I am somewhat reminded of a quote from Floyd Patterson shortly before
he went into the ring to fight a title bout for the heavyweight
championship of the world. Known to be a religious man, he was asked by
a sportswriter, ``Mr. Patterson, is God on your side?'' And he said,
``I only hope God knows I am on his side.''
Regardless of the opinions in this debate, it is my conclusive belief
that every Member of Congress falls in that same category as Mr.
Patterson. While we may have differences on the intent of this
legislation, it is patently clear it is permissive, not mandatory;
respectful, not dictatorial; and it recognizes that at a time and place
of tragedy in our country, it is only appropriate that America's
children have the opportunity in their own way to reflect or to pray.
Mr. Speaker, I commend the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Jones)
and those on both sides of the
[[Page H8118]]
debate. I urge Members to adopt the resolution.
Mr. BOEHNER. Mr. Speaker, I am proud to support House Concurrent
Resolution 239.
The atrocities committed against the United States on September 11,
the ongoing threats to our national security, and the realization that
ordinary Americans can be targets in the struggle against the forces of
domestic and international terrorism have left our Nation searching for
comfort. They have also led many of us to pray and reflect on behalf of
the Nation, each in our own way, and according to our own understanding
of God. When events occur that confound and enrage and hurt us so
deeply, it is natural for humankind, and Americans especially, to take
time to seek wisdom and consolation from the Creator. I believe such
times of spirituality are something to be encouraged, especially among
our children.
This House Concurrent Resolution makes clear Congress's support that
America's schools should set aside a sufficient period of time to allow
children to pray for, or quietly reflect on behalf of, the Nation
during the difficult days we now face. I believe such ``moments of
silence'' merely given students a choice--not a mandate--to pray and
reflect, and are not only constitutional, but also consistent with this
Nation's heritage of recognizing that America is indeed ``one Nation
under God,'' as so many students around this great land recite each
school day.
As President Eisenhower once said, referring to the reference to God
in the Pledge of Allegiance, our Nation is one that reaffirms ``the
transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in
this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which
forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and
war.'' It is appropriate that our schools encourage their students to
seek comfort and answers--and strength--in their faith.
I urge my colleagues to support House Concurrent Resolution 239.
Mr. ISAKSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Forbes). The question is on the motion
offered by the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Isakson) that the House
suspend the rules and agree to the concurrent resolution, H. Con. Res.
239.
The question was taken.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. In the opinion of the Chair, two-thirds of
those present have voted in the affirmative.
Mr. JONES of North Carolina. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas
and nays.
The yeas and nays were ordered.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 8 of rule XX and the
Chair's prior announcement, further proceedings on this motion will be
postponed.
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