[Congressional Record Volume 147, Number 152 (Tuesday, November 6, 2001)]
[Extensions of Remarks]
[Pages E2010-E2014]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




  PAPERS OF MISCONDUCT, U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT OF OHIO

                                 ______
                                 

                      HON. JAMES A. TRAFICANT, JR.

                                of ohio

                    in the house of representatives

                       Tuesday, November 6, 2001

  Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Speaker, these pages are hereby memorialized in 
the Record to document prosecutorial misconduct in the U.S. Attorney's 
Office of the Northern District of Ohio.

                                                 January 24, 2000.
     Congressman James A. Traficant, Jr.,
     Overhill Rd.
     Youngstown, OH.
       Dear Jim: On November 1, 1999 I reached my 70th birthday. 
     As you know, I retired for good on January 2, 1999, after 
     practicing law for almost 47 years. Also, after having been 
     one of your staff members for 14 years.
       My relationship with you was a most rewarding experience in 
     my life. I found the work I did interesting and profoundly 
     exciting because I was able to do something good for people 
     and our community of Youngstown-Mahoning Valley, Ohio.
       It took me the most part of last year to try to relax and 
     try to enjoy life without the workaholic tendencies I had for 
     most of my adult life. The arrival of our gorgeous 
     granddaughter, Lara, certainly helped me to be able to sit 
     back and start ``smelling the roses.''
       A most disconcerting event took place on Thursday, January 
     13, 2000. I thought that I should call it to your attention 
     because you appear to be the ``main target'' and I was 
     obviously contacted in their attempt coerce me to agree to 
     certain allegations that are absolutely not true. The 
     following is what happened.
       On Thursday morning at about 8:30 AM someone called me on 
     the downstairs phone--I live in a high-rise condominium here 
     on Singer Island, Florida. I was informed that I should let 
     him in because they had to talk to me about you. He would not 
     tell me what it was all about. At this point, I felt coerced 
     and compelled to let them come up to our apartment and I did.
       Three gentlemen came in and showed me their credentials and 
     then gave me their cards. Two of them were real bruisers, or 
     maybe I should say ``big''. The two FBI persons were, Michael 
     S. Pikunas of Youngstown, Ohio and John E. Stoll, also of 
     Youngstown, Ohio. The other fellow was Charles L. Perkins, 
     Special Agent for the Internal Revenue Service, Criminal 
     Investigations. At this point I really felt intimidated. They 
     made it clear that they were out to find information that 
     could or would be used against you. In fact, they made it 
     clear that if I admitted what they brought up they would 
     protect me.
       At my age, and in my poor health condition, I am surprised 
     I did not collapse. They said that others in your office and 
     elsewhere had said certain things about me that violated 
     Federal Laws. I was absolutely astonished. By the way, they 
     never read me my rights but they just kept on pressing me to 
     admit to things that I not only did not do but I could never 
     have thought of doing.
       They said they had evidence of my not working enough to 
     justify being paid. They said that I should have filed a 
     disclosure statement each year as required. They said I gave 
     you back some rental that had been paid for your space at 11 
     Overhill Rd. They said that I gave you part of what I 
     received for my pay. They also said I earned more money than 
     I should have while on your staff. In general, they said that 
     I was in violation of many laws and that if I admitted to 
     these violations so they could ``get you'' they would really 
     ``protect me.''
       Jim, as you know, I am not a criminal lawyer, I was 
     absolutely puzzled and certainly felt intimidated. I have 
     never been accused of violating the law or even violating 
     ethics as a lawyer. I really pondered over whether I should 
     contact you because I know how busy you are and how many 
     things are on your mind at all times. But, the other day, I 
     really received a shock.
       A local FBI agent, Jeff Danik, called me and informed me 
     that the Youngstown fellows had asked him to serve a subpoena 
     on me. We finally got together on January 20, 2000. To my 
     continued amazement, the subpoena requested that I appear in 
     Cleveland, Ohio on February 1, 2000 to testify regarding John 
     Doe. Of course, I know they are referring to you as ``John 
     Doe''.
       First of all, they did not give me much notice. Also, I 
     live in Florida and am retired. Why should I pay my own 
     expenses to travel to Cleveland? In winter to boot. I have 
     had to hire legal counsel to protect myself. How can the 
     Government do this and get away with it?
       Jim, I certainly did deny and am denying that I have 
     violated any laws anywhere. The office building, as you know, 
     was transferred out of my name when I discovered during your 
     orientation as a new Congressman that I could not keep the 
     building in my name. I was informed by the appropriate 
     Congressional Committee that I did not have to be the one who 
     was designated to report my assets etc.
       I also was informed that I did not surpass the earnings 
     where I could not still practice law. I also don't see how I 
     could have shared my pay with you or anyone when I know I was 
     losing income by being with you. Also, I know I don't have to 
     tell you what I did and how many hours I worked while on your 
     staff. All of this is nonsense.
       I wish that all of this would go away but as a lawyer of 
     many years I guess I should know better. Since I have known 
     you, I have learned that your intellect and judgment would 
     surpass anyone I have ever met--and I mean that it just 
     doesn't seem fair that I can be intimidated, coerced and 
     whatever else during my retirement and at this time of my 
     life.
       I hope it is not some desperate political maneuver on 
     someone's part. If it is, I shall really lose my faith in our 
     system.
       I am very sorry that I must discombobulate your mind with 
     all of this. I am trying to ease my discomfort a bit but I 
     also feel compelled to let you know what is happening.
       Please let me know if you have some words of comfort and 
     maybe some advice. I really am confused and agitated at this 
     point.
           Sincerely,
                                                Henry A. DiBlasio.

                                  ____
                                  

      State of Ohio, County of Mahoning--Affidavit of John Innella

       After being duly cautioned on my oath in accordance with 
     the law, I, John Innella, hereby depose and say:
       At approximately 1:00 p.m. on Monday, April 30, 2001, I was 
     in the company of James A. Traficant, Jr., and was 
     unexpectedly interrupted by Henry Nemenz.
       1. Henry Nemenz voluntarily told James Traficant in my 
     company, that ``Morford was trying to put words in his 
     mouth''.

[[Page E2011]]

       2. His (Nemenz) attorney told him to ``tell Morford what 
     they wanted to hear so that he would not be indicted''.
       3. In my presence, James Traficant and Henry Nemenz talked 
     about their original deal which was $17,000.00 for the barn 
     and additions because Jim Traficant already had the poles and 
     metal for the building.
       4. In my presence, they discussed that the construction man 
     said he would bring in twenty (20) Amish and they would get 
     the job done in a week.
       5. Nemenz said that he eventually got rid of his 
     construction man because of faulty construction and poor 
     management.
       6. Nemenz and Traficant discussed the fact they 
     legitimately came to a reasonable business settlement that 
     Nemenz would have made with anyone under similar 
     circumstances.
       7. Nemenz told Traficant that he was told by Morford ``not 
     to talk to Traficant''.
       8. Nemenz told Traficant that all money that Traficant 
     owed, was paid in full, including the truck.
       9. In my presence, Traficant and Nemenz agreed that the 
     stretching out of the work to be performed was the cause of 
     the cost overruns, and that it was not the fault of James 
     Traficant, which they had mutually agreed to be $17,000.00 in 
     addition to the truck.
       10. Traficant and Nemenz agreed in my presence that 
     Traficant-had settled the accounts in full.
       11. Nemenz stated in my presence that when Morford 
     interviewed him, he had four assistants, and the situation 
     was intimidating. He said that they did not want to hear what 
     he was saying. He said that he basically ``told them what 
     they wanted to hear''.
       12 In my presence, Nemenz also said that the conversation 
     was ``bull shit''.
       13. Nemenz said that he has agreed to sell Traficant a 
     black corvette. He said that he had realized that Traficant 
     had invested money in the car to make repairs because it had 
     sat so long unused. He further stated that he realized 
     Traficant put hardly any miles on the corvette. But when flap 
     developed over the barn, Nemenz decided that he wanted the 
     car back, saying that he would give credit for any of the 
     expenses. The real reason he wanted the car back was that it 
     was purchased as a graduation present for his son, and his 
     son was upset because Henry had sold it. Henry also said he 
     was also upset over the problems that had developed 
     concerning the construction work at the farm. Nemenz admitted 
     that he agreed to sell the car to Traficant, and thanked 
     Traficant for returning the car.
       14. I was present during this entire conversation at 
     Bruno's Restaurant in Poland, Ohio.
       Further Affiant Sayeth Naught.
       Sworn to and Subscribed before me on this 13th day of June, 
     2001.
                                                     John Innella.

                                  ____
                                  

 State of Ohio, County of Mahoning--Affidavit of Pat Naples, Jr., June 
                                1, 2001

       This affidavit is being freely made and recalled to the 
     best of my recollection.
       This affidavit concerns the phone conversation between 
     myself and Assistant Attorney General Craig Morford.
       This conversation took place after the 30 federal 
     indictments were handed down. The phone conversation lasted 
     the better part of an hour, if not more, and was tape 
     recorded.
       The conversation started out by me telling Craig Morford 
     that he had a name missing from his indictments. I mentioned 
     the name and then he became very quiet. Morford asked how I 
     knew him and I proceeded to tell him that in the early 80's I 
     was a Lieutenant with the Mahoning County Sheriff's Dept. in 
     liquor and vice, and I was in charge of investigating this 
     person. We would conduct investigations on establishments 
     that were involved with organized crime within the city of 
     Youngstown that were not being investigated by Chief 
     Wellington, and this person was one of those. Morford stated 
     that he did know this person but didn't have enough to indict 
     him.
       I also told Morford that this conversation had to stay 
     strictly confidential for how high up in the crime family 
     this person was, I did not need any retribution because the 
     last time that I got close to Altshler and Strollo I had a 
     fire bomb threat at my parent's home and my windows broken 
     out of my car.
       (It was later found out that Morford did not keep this 
     conversation confidential. He did let a criminal defense 
     attorney know that there may still be a pending investigation 
     on this subject. This criminal defense attorney was defending 
     another person for murder and one of his subordinates for a 
     gambling charge, putting myself and my family in jeopardy.)
       My main purpose in calling Morford was to look into 
     improprieties in a local municipal court. As the conversation 
     went on I told him about a drug distributor in Youngstown 
     with connections with law enforcement. I mentioned that I 
     really didn't want to give this information out to just 
     anybody because of the quantity that this person deals with. 
     Craig Morford stated I would have to get together with his 
     FBI agent Jeff Sedlack, I told him that I really don't trust 
     the FBI office in Youngstown because of my past experiences 
     with them. Morford tried to assure me that those agents were 
     no longer there, and that you can trust Sedlack, because 
     Morford didn't trust the other FBI agents either. He stated 
     Sedlack was assigned there to help clean that office up or 
     help to clean its image up, or something along that line.
       Mr. Morford's further comments and the way he presented the 
     FBI here in Youngstown was not to be trusted, but you can 
     trust Sedlack.
                                                   Pat Naples, Jr.

                                  ____
                                  

      [Re. U.S. vs. James A Traficant, Jr., Case No. 4:01 CR 207]

 Transcript of Tape-Recorded Conversation Between Congressman James A. 
 Traficant, Jr., and Richard Detor, Former Employee of U.S. Aerospace, 
                 Manassas, Virginia, on August 1, 2001

       (Tape prepared by Lisa C. Nagy-Baker, a notary public 
     within and for the State of Ohio on this date, August 28, 
     2001, from a tape supplied by Congressman Traficant.)
       Mr. Traficant. Hello.
       Mr. Detor. Returning the page.
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah. How you doing?
       Mr. Detor. Well, having fun.
       Mr. Traficant. I know. I got some information to give you. 
     I got it straight from Chance's son that J.J. did perjure 
     himself in the Chance trial, and that's what they did. He 
     went ahead and lied on me to save his ass.
       Mr. Detor. Yeah.
       Mr. Traficant. So I don't know. What's happening with you? 
     What did you hear?
       Mr. Detor. I have been threatened, intimidated, essentially 
     tried to mold into being forced to lie. If I speak to 
     anybody, they'll come arrest me immediately. He told me that 
     he had me on perjury, although I've never provided a 
     statement to him. They said that I'm wearing Union pants 
     [unintelligible], and I either need to become wise and tell 
     them what they want to hear, or they're going to name me 
     August 15 as a co-conspirator.
       Mr. Traficant. Okay. They want you in essence to lie, don't 
     they?
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. All right. Let me ask you; the reason why 
     is, this is the good news. I've got two people now that were 
     both told the same thing, and I've got one of them who said 
     it in front of a witness; and I'm going to make a motion for 
     prosecutorial misconduct on their threatening and 
     intimidation; and I'm going to do that, and they may call you 
     as a witness.
       Mr. Detor. I've been threatened with the IRS. They told me 
     that the IRS was immediately going to investigate me and that 
     they were holding the IRS off, and I've been threatened with 
     going and being six weeks in a trial. They realize that I 
     would lose my security licenses and I would lose my 
     [unintelligible] licenses if there were any kind of a Federal 
     charge if found guilty, which would reasonably come, in all 
     likelihood. And they have called and been on me and tried 
     every threat, and they've gone all through my wife, what kind 
     of salary, why I bought the house I bought, why I drive the 
     kind of car I drive, you know, what my background is.
       It has just been a nightmare of unbelievable proportions. I 
     really feel that I'm living in Red China.
       Mr. Traficant. Okay. Let me ask you this. They more or less 
     said to you that they wanted you to lie, didn't they?
       Mr. Detor. What they did is when they asked the question, 
     they say, well, this is what you're saying; and they change 
     what you're saying; and you stop and you go, no, that is not 
     what I am saying.
       Traficant. They want you to more or less admit to the way 
     they're interpreting it, which would be a lie, wouldn't it?
       Detor. Yes.
       Traficant. But they give you the impression that if you 
     more or less accept their version, you'll have no more 
     problems.
       Mr. Detor. Give immunity. They won't get the IRS. No 
     questions. No ifs and or buts. I'm dealing with an attorney 
     named Plato Cacberis, right there in Washington; and I was 
     dealing with one law firm. I said this is not acceptable. 
     This is not the United States. They can't sit there and try 
     to ask me to lie. They can't even suggest it. They told me 
     they subpoenaed all my bank records in the blind and all my 
     IRS stuff. You know, I mean I've listened to one story after 
     another from the Assistant U.S. Attorney.
       Mr. Traficant. What was his name?
       Mr. Detor. Morford.
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah. He's the one doing the threatening?
       Mr. Detor. Yeah.
       Mr. Traficant. And he basically wants to lie, and he'll let 
     you alone, won't he?
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. Let me ask you something. I'm having a 
     hearing because I am going to call and give notice of the 
     courts to call Morford as a witness; and I have to have a 
     hearing on his behavior, and I will have three people that 
     will be testifying to the same thing you will testify to; and 
     if you were an attorney you'd lose your license, wouldn't 
     you?
       Mr. Detor. Oh, absolutely. This is not ethical. I've gone 
     through hell. I have literally gone through hell.
       Mr. Traficant. What I'm going to tell you is I am going to 
     subpoena you in this process against Morford; and all I want 
     you to do is tell the truth that if you would lie, they would 
     lay off you; and that's the bottom message they gave you. 
     Isn't that a fact?
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. Are you going to show up if I subpoena you 
     for such a hearing?
       Mr. Detor. You have to handle it through the attorney's 
     name is Plato Cacberis.
       Mr. Traficant. Could you give me that so I can write it 
     down. Hold a minute. Spell that.

[[Page E2012]]

       Mr. Detor. It's C-A-C-B-E-R-I-S.
       Mr. Traficant. Plato?
       Mr. Detor. Yeah, Plato Cacberis. ***/***--hold on a second. 
     I got to find his card here in my pocket. I forget the last 
     four digits. They said if I talked to anybody, they'd come 
     arrest me immediately. If I did this--it's just been 
     unbelievable. It's ***/****.
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah, but I'm my own attorney, and I have a 
     right to talk to individuals that are being investigated.
       Mr. Detor. That's correct.
       Mr. Traficant. Did they say you couldn't talk to me?
       Mr. Detor. Yeah, well, nobody. What they've done is 
     violated my Constitutional rights. I've gone to Plato and 
     asked Plato to go up to the public ethics group to bring this 
     to their attention.
       Mr. Traficant. Did he?
       Mr. Detor. He's doing it now. He's in the process of doing 
     it.
       Mr. Traficant. Let me ask you this; if you would do this, 
     if you would file a lawsuit against them--I can't advise 
     you--I'm not an attorney; but here's what happened with 
     another guy who comes out, and I'm having lunch with the 
     guy--I think I gold you this, Richard--he comes out and he 
     was in a Rotary meeting. He sat down and said, Jim, I love 
     you; I apologize for what's happening. I said, well, tell the 
     truth. What did you tell the Grand Jury? He said, I told the 
     Grand Jury the truth; that we really didn't do anything 
     wrong.
       Mr. Detor. All right. You need----
       Mr. Traficant. But the bottom line was my attorney told me 
     that if I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear in the 
     words they wanted it said, they were going to indict me. My 
     attorney said you don't need this shit. He was a businessman; 
     you understand?
       Mr. Detor. My attorney told me the same thing. Do you want 
     to spend $200,000 defending yourself, or is this person 
     susceptible? And I said I cannot lie. I cannot place myself 
     in any situation that I heard anybody ask or request for 
     papers or anything. And the attorney reviewed it; he looked 
     at it and he said the meals, they're all below $6; there's 
     not even ethics violations. There's nothing wrong with it.
       Mr. Traficant. I paid for some of those meals.
       Mr. Detor. That's what he said.
       Mr. Traficant. It showed, didn't I? I paid for a lot of 
     meals.
       Mr. Detor. Yes, and even the purchase of the boat. The 
     boat, there is no issue; there is no problem.
       Mr. Traficant. I'll call the ethics committee about it. And 
     you remember when J.J. was so happy he wanted to buy the 
     boat, and I said J.J. you don't need this boat; but Al does 
     want this boat, and I don't want your money; do you remember?
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. How about contract; did you ever get the 
     contract on that boat? I never got it.
       Mr. Detor. Yep, I got it.
       Mr. Traficant. Could you send me a copy of it?
       Mr. Detor. Yes, I'll do it through the attorney.
       Mr. Traficant. Do that and do that fast. Here's what I'm 
     telling you. You let your attorney know that I'm going to 
     move for a hearing for Morford, on Morford, that he has done 
     this now; and if you come up and testify to that, this son of 
     a bitch may go to jail because what they're doing, this 
     Gestapo shit.
       Mr. Detor. It is. And I never thought it could exist, and I 
     would never have been able to be convinced. I would never 
     have believed it in a million years. But it's exactly what 
     they're doing. It's exactly what they've been doing to me. I 
     mean, they have just ruined my life.
       Mr. Traficant. How about Al Lang?
       Mr. Detor. Haven't heard a peep from him.
       Mr. Traficant. But you know that's what they did to him; 
     and, shit, he don't have the balls; he'd have probably said 
     anything, wouldn't he?
       Mr. Detor. I have no idea, but the thing is I've talked to 
     other people, and they've all looked at me and they've said 
     you can only tell the facts. you can't stand before a judge 
     and lie to him. You can't do it. We know the type of person 
     you are. They said we also know the type of person you are; 
     if you thought there was anything unethical or anything 
     wrong, you would have had nothing to do with it. I said there 
     was not even a question of anything wrong or any improper 
     actions at any time in my mind in any way, shape or form, nor 
     did I ever hear anybody ask for anything in any way, shape or 
     form for anything.
       Mr. Traficant. And you were there at everything we did, 
     weren't you?
       Mr. Detor. Well, everything I know of.
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah, I never met with Cafaro; and when I 
     did, you know, this business about him giving money, he was 
     such a damned liar; he lied to everybody; but to save his 
     ass, he would lie and say anything, wouldn't he?
       Mr. Detor. Well, when they asked me, I said I'm not even 
     aware of him getting any money from the boat at all. I said I 
     thought Al sunk the boat, ruined it and he's stuck with it 
     with no value on it now.
       Mr. Traficant. That's exactly what he did.
       Mr. Detor. I said the boat was professionally appraised. It 
     had a value. I said he was buying it for less than that 
     value. I said he ruined it. He damaged it and just walked 
     from the deal. I said, I'm not aware of dollar one that went 
     to anybody other than the money that he spent on doing the 
     repairs and then decided to go ahead and he was out of it. I 
     said if there had been any kind of a fee for favors or 
     anything else, somebody would have bought it; it would have 
     been all the way; it would have been a done deal. They 
     wouldn't have spent a year----
       Mr. Traficant. I would have taken the $26,000 check from 
     J.J., wouldn't I?
       Mr. Detor. Yep.
       Mr. Traficant. God damned right; he was so happy; but 
     that's the bottom line, what they have on J.J. is he perjured 
     himself with the Chance gate, and you've got that impression 
     when he was going through that period of time, didn't you?
       Mr. Detor. I was told that.
       Mr. Traficant. Who told you?
       Mr. Detor. Came through an attorney.
       Mr. Traficant. Do you remember the name of the attorney?
       Mr. Detor. It was one of the attorneys--oh, you know who it 
     was? The attorney's name was J. [unintelligible], and he was 
     advised of that by Al Lang.
       Mr. Traficant. I see. And evidently Al Lang had known that 
     J.J. had perjured himself?
       Mr. Detor. Yeah.
       Mr. Traficant. While the guy sits in jail, Chance had told 
     his son and his son had told me that the attorneys had set 
     him up to get J.J. to lie. He didn't know until after he saw 
     my national TV show and talk show that, in fact, that 
     Leonardo [phonetic spelling], his attorney, was working with 
     the Feds and they set Chance up. Chance said he never got the 
     $13,000 from Strollo; but his attorney is the one that 
     convinced him he had to find somebody that was a legitimate 
     rich businessman and recommended Cafaro. Could you imagine 
     that?
       Mr. Detor. Unbelievable.
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah, so anyway. I think you're on good 
     grounds. If they indict you, you're not going to lie for 
     these bastards, are you?
       Mr. Detor. No.
       Mr. Traficant. I think we're going to have a hell of a 
     fight here, but anyway, I'm going to have a hearing, and I'm 
     going to call you as a witness in that hearing.
       Mr. Detor. Yep. That's fine. I'll grab the attorneys that 
     were, you know, present with me.
       Mr. Traficant. But having known this and having known now 
     that there are others that I could call, you should sue them; 
     believe me, Richard.
       Mr. Detor. We're going up to talk to public ethics to talk 
     to everybody we can because it's out of control. write a 
     letter to the U.S. Attorney General.
       Mr. Detor. [Unintelligible.]
       Mr. Traficant. You should also write a letter to the U.S. 
     Attorney General about what they're doing because this speaks 
     to what they've done with everybody in this case. You've got 
     people lying. They either have something to gain or something 
     to lose, and they've made mountains out of molehills. They've 
     made half truths into felonies. They've made loans into 
     kickbacks, and I've had it.
       Mr. Detor. Yep.
       Mr. Traficant. And you know I wouldn't accept any money. 
     You personally know that?
       Mr. Detor. No.
       Mr. Traficant. I mean, J.J. wanted to give me money over 
     that car deal; remember that 6,000? And I wouldn't take no 
     money from J.J., and I told him I wouldn't; remember?
       Mr. Detor. And I guess the stuff that Al Lang handled it in 
     that corner of it, I don't really have any knowledge of. They 
     jumped all over me trying to ask about the $12,000. I said 
     this is ridiculous. I've got witnesses of where I returned it 
     to [unintelligible].
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah, I know that; but I mean, you do know 
     that after that car we thought was only going to be 1,000 
     that I rented to go to Louisiana which turned out to be 
     6,000, that J.J. wanted to give me money and I would not 
     accept it. You knew that?
       Mr. Detor. Well, I knew you wouldn't accept anything.
       Mr. Traficant.  Yeah, I told you to tell them I don't want 
     their money.
       Mr. Detor. Yeah, you wouldn't accept anything on anything. 
     All you wanted J.J. is to do what he agreed to do.
       Mr. Traficant. And that was to do what?
       Mr. Detor. To purchase the vehicle.
       Mr. Traficant. He wanted to purchase the vehicle. You have 
     those papers, don't you?
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. I want a copy sent to me of those; and 
     second of all, the only thing I wanted from J.J. was he would 
     move not only the company but the headquarters up to 
     Youngstown.
       Mr. Detor. Correct.
       Mr. Traficant. That's about where it is. So anyway, I'm 
     going to have this hearing and, Richard, I'm going to be 
     calling you. Give me your address. I don't have your address.
       Mr. Detor. You know what, it's through Plato Cacberis 
     because they said they would arrest me instantly if I talked 
     to anybody. If you hear an attorney so I understand that 
     you're representing yourself so I can----
       Mr. Traficant. you can refer me to your attorney.
       Mr. Detor. The best thing to do is to handle the rest of it 
     right through Plato. He'll deal with it. We are going to 
     public ethics. We're going to everybody. I've had threats

[[Page E2013]]

     on me. They called my little girl, the nine-year old, little 
     Kaitlyn.
       Mr. Traficant. Who called her?
       Mr. Detor. I don't know, but they told her that I'm going 
     to be dead. All kinds of things. I have literally----
       Mr. Traficant. How do you know it was the Feds who did it?
       Mr. Detor. I don't know who did it, but all I know is my 
     life has gone to hell; and when I brought it to their 
     attention when they interviewed me, they laughed about it and 
     blow it off.
       Mr. Traficant. Even the threats to your daughter?
       Mr. Detor. Yes. That's my daughter. If I answer, nobody 
     talks. If she answers, they talk to her, and they tell her 
     that daddy's going to be dead. Daddy's bad; all kinds of 
     things. It's devastating her. It's making her a nervous 
     wreck.
       Mr. Traficant. And you suspect it's the government?
       Mr. Detor. I don't know who it is.
       Mr. Traficant. You wouldn't suspect it to be Al Lang doing 
     that, would you?
       Mr. Detor. No, I can't figure out what beef he has.
       Mr. Traficant. And what would Cafaro have from doing that?
       Mr. Detor. The thing is when they tried to tell me Al 
     Lang's saying things, who the hell is [unintelligible] buying 
     all those God damned boats for it. I never heard anything to 
     the contrary in my entire life.
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah.
       Mr. Detor. Has he lost his mind?
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah, and I think it's very important and I 
     want you to talk to your attorney. If you could send me all 
     those documents that I've asked for, and tell him what we've 
     talked about and that he should go ahead and sue the bastards 
     because I'm going to have them into court; and that would be 
     a hell of a thing with you suing them and me having them into 
     court for their behavior with another guy. He can deny all he 
     wants, this other guy. I have a witness that heard this other 
     guy say those things.
       Mr. Detor. Have you talked to any of the Congressional 
     ethics groups or anything on any of this stuff?
       Mr. Traficant. I can't because it's a criminal thing, and 
     I'm just going to go through the courts; and they've got a 
     couple people that are really lying through their teeth. I've 
     been targeted, I told you that, for all these years. You know 
     that. You could tell by the way they're treating you.
       Mr. Detor. Right.
       Mr. Traficant. But Morford was the one that did the 
     threatening?
       Mr. Detor. Yeah.
       Mr. Traficant. And he wanted you, in essence, to lie?
       Mr. Detor. That's what came out because it could not be 
     understood any other way; and then when they didn't like what 
     I was saying, they said, well, we didn't want to say this and 
     we didn't want to shake you up, but the IRS has a lot of 
     interest. We've subpoenaed all your records in the blind, 
     which I find is unconstitutional and illegal 
     [unintelligible]; but they tell me they've subpoenaed all my 
     records in the blind and that the IRS wants to launch an 
     audit against me immediately and that there were significant 
     issues there; and they told me that I was going to be 
     arrested and taken out of my office; that I would be taken to 
     Cleveland to be arraigned. I'd have to post a bond, and then 
     I'd have to spend a significant amount of money defending 
     myself.
       I keep going over these issues and issues and issues, and 
     none of these make any sense. I don't even know where there's 
     anything even done wrong; and they said--well, they go on and 
     on and on.
       Mr. Traficant. You basically told them that I did nothing 
     illegal?
       Mr. Detor. Pardon me?
       Mr. Traficant. You basically told them I did nothing 
     illegal?
       Mr. Detor. I didn't either. There's nothing illegal.
       Mr. Traficant. I know that. They would not accept it, would 
     they, Richard?
       Mr. Detor. Oh, no. Absolutely no.
       Mr. Traficant. Well, I'm telling you, I can't advise you 
     but I would get your attorney to file a lawsuit immediately 
     knowing know--have your attorney call me--and knowing now 
     that I'm moving to have him called as a witness in this 
     trial, Morford; and she's going to call a hearing on it to 
     see whether or not I can call her; and I will call you as a 
     witness to show his prosecutorial behavior. This is illegal.
       Mr. Detor. This is illegal.
       Mr. Traficant. They were extorting you.
       Mr. Detor. Yes, they were.
       Mr. Traficant. And if they've done this to you, what do you 
     think they've done to others?
       Mr. Detor. I mean, the thing that I told them, I said, I 
     can't speak for the individual in any way other than when I 
     was with him; and I find this unbelievable to think anything 
     to the contrary. I said I find it unbelievable that any staff 
     member could be doing anything to the contrary because they 
     are so, they seem so sound and straight and narrow with 
     things being done right and things being done properly. I 
     said, I don't see it any other way. I said I'm sorry; I just 
     don't see anything.
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah, but the bottom line is Morford let you 
     know in no uncertain terms if you lied, your problems would 
     all go away; and if you didn't, boy, you were going to end up 
     in jail?
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. That's the bottom line.
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. All right. Well, listen, you have your 
     attorney get in touch with me; and I'm recommending to you 
     that you consider filing a lawsuit against him because I'm 
     going to have a hearing on Morford's behavior.
       Mr. Detor. I think, to tell you the truth, that the whole 
     thing needs to be thrown out.
       Mr. Traficant. Well, this may lead to that, your 
     participation.
       Mr. Detor. It's out of control.
       Mr. Traficant. They're either going to screw you, me, or 
     they're going to get away with it or they're going to get 
     their ass in a sling; and maybe it's their ass in a sling and 
     everybody's afraid to go after them. And I'm one of the few 
     in America, Richard.
       Mr. Detor. Yeah, I know.
       Mr. Traficant. And I'm afraid to death. I'm not talking 
     big. I'm afraid to death, but I'm going after these bastards. 
     This is not what America's supposed to be. We shouldn't have 
     to fear our God damned Gestapo government.
       Mr. Detor. Well, they referred to me as collateral damage; 
     and if I wasn't smart enough to get out of the way and decide 
     whether I was wearing a Union shirt or Confederate pants--
     that's what he said to me quote-unquote, you're wearing Union 
     pants and confederate shirt or something of that nature. 
     They're shooting at you from both sides. You better make sure 
     you know which side you're going to be on, but you better be 
     on the winning side because you're in a lot of trouble. I 
     said to them, I'm sorry; I don't see what I'm in trouble for. 
     I didn't see anything happen. I wasn't aware of anything. I 
     didn't see one transaction of anything that you're alleging. 
     And then they said, well, he took $40,000 on his boat. I said 
     that's nonsense. That is absolute, 100 percent nonsense. I 
     said I'm not aware or ever heard anybody say anything about 
     it. And they said J.J. Cafaro gave him money out in 
     Youngstown personally and finally the FBI steps in and 
     [unintelligible]. I had no knowledge of that.
       Mr. Traficant. Oh, but you know that Cafaro was such a 
     liar. You know that J.J. wasn't giving me cash. If he was 
     going to give me cash, he would have brought in $26,000 to 
     buy a boat, wouldn't he?
       Mr. Detor. If J.J. Cafaro wanted to go do something in a 
     way, he would have just gone and done it. There's no doubt in 
     my mind. J.J.'s proven to be a liar through and through. He 
     induced my family to move down here. He fraudulently did it. 
     Damn it, my family was able to hang on to the house by my 
     wife's working, by me working. You know, I've got security 
     plans. In my entire life I have never done one thing wrong in 
     any way, shape or form. I respect the government; I respect 
     the government offices. I respected the Congressional bodies, 
     the executive bodies, everybody. I've worked for benefits for 
     this government to a degree; and to hear this and--
       Mr. Traficant. And to be threatened that if you don't lie, 
     you're going to go to jail, that doesn't sound American, does 
     it?
       Mr. Detor. It's not. It absolutely is--
       Mr. Traficant. And that's the bottom line, isn't it, 
     Richard?
       Mr. Detor. Yep.
       Mr. Traficant. Okay. Well, listen. If you file that suit, 
     that suit should also be filed against Cafaro when you do it, 
     or do you have one filed against him?
       Mr. Detor. I've got one filed against him now. And the 
     other thing that I was requested to do was drop my charges 
     against Cafaro or settle it because they did not want me in 
     court with Cafaro before this case.
       Mr. Traficant. You know why? They know that J.J. is a liar. 
     J.J. called them a liar on the stand in the Chance trial, and 
     this is why they're worried about it. This is why they got to 
     have somebody. They know what they're doing and it's 
     completely illegal. They're forcing you not to, in fact, make 
     yourself whole over an illegal act by Cafaro. He broke the 
     law in Virginia.
       Mr. Detor. Yeah, what they have is--well, I've got him 
     [unintelligible] he was writing all these bad checks, and I 
     had even gone to the Commonwealth attorney to make sure that 
     nobody had given their [unintelligible].
       Mr. Traficant. Yeah, and here they are trying to protect 
     Cafaro because Cafaro to save his own ass from perjury is 
     lying about me.
       Mr. Detor. What kind of witness does Cafaro really make 
     when the reality comes out that the guy's lying--
       Mr. Traficant. Well, he's going to have Al Lang to make him 
     look like he's telling the truth, but they can't handle the 
     fact that you are so upright and upstanding a man of 
     integrity, and it's going to blow their case; do you 
     understand?
       Mr. Detor. Yeah, they tried to tear me apart, IRS. They 
     tried then saying that I committed fraud in order to obtain 
     my house, which is nonsense because the bank told them I 
     qualified for the house before I even moved. I was all 
     prequalified. They tried to tell me that I was trying to 
     support my wife's lavish lifestyle. They had no idea that my 
     wife has worked 20 years, worked her way through college and 
     that her family is very financially well off; and we have 
     never sought money from anybody. And when I moved from New 
     Jersey, I was carefully, carefully debt free and had no 
     obligations to anybody; and the thing about having to commit 
     fraud with a bank in order to obtain a mortgage is pure 
     nonsense. That's where they've gone. They've gone after me in 
     every way, shape or form.

[[Page E2014]]

       Mr. Traficant. And Cafaro lied to you from day one, didn't 
     he?
       Mr. Detor. Yes, he did.
       Mr. Traficant. And everything he said was a lie?
       Mr. Detor. And I have numerous other witnesses where he 
     lied to them. He lied about their employment.
       Mr. Traficant. Who were some of those witnesses?
       Mr. Detor. You got Lonnie Sikowski, 30 years at the FAA. 
     You got Walt Allison, former CIA, top level clearances. You 
     have Amanda Simon. You've got a guy named Jim Phillips who 
     sold the airplane to Cafaros, and then they try to say 
     they're not responsible when I was right there in a meeting 
     where they said it was Cafaro Company's. See, they're using 
     it against me saying that they're not Cafaro Company. [Names 
     are phonetic spellings.]
       Mr. Traficant. Have your attorney send me a list of those 
     names, too. Listen, I'm going to let you go, but keep in mind 
     I'm going to be calling you because I'm taking this son of a 
     bitch to a hearing.
       Mr. Detor. Like I said, I can only tell the truth. I fear 
     of my children's lives. I'm scared to death.
       Mr. Traficant. You're going to be subpoenaed by me.
       Mr. Detor. Do it through the attorney.
       Mr. Traficant. I will.
       Mr. Detor. The threats and intimidation; I'm willing to go 
     to the media. I'm willing to go anyplace, you know.
       Mr. Traficant. File you lawsuit and go the media and say in 
     their zeal to get Traficant, they wanted me to lie. That's 
     the bottom line; and they pressured me to lie and made it 
     known very clearly from what you told me that if I lie, all 
     my problems would go way.
       Mr. Detor. I didn't lie. They wanted me to. I refused. I 
     just said I keep calm. I've discussed it with my wife. I 
     discussed it with other associates. They said that I was 
     [unintelligible] with the IRS. I basically couldn't even 
     speak, and my family members sat there with me, and they 
     said, Rick, we know you; you won't lie; you don't lie; don't 
     lie. Don't be coerced into lying. I said they're telling me 
     they're going to ruin my life if I don't.
       I basically am at a breaking point. I'm mentally running, I 
     mean to tell you the truth, I'm ready to just go ahead and 
     blow my head off. It is so bad, if it wasn't for my kids and 
     the strain it would have on my kids, I'd be gone.
       Mr. Traficant. Richard, why don't you go public. Talk to 
     your attorney; go public, file the lawsuit when you do, and 
     I'm calling for a hearing on his conduct, on Morford's 
     conduct. Listen to me carefully and you won't have any more 
     problems because the truth sets us free.
       Mr. Detor. Yes, it does.
       Mr. Traficant. I'll get back to you. Thanks, big guy. All 
     right. Have your attorney call me. Is he involved with any 
     law firm or is that his firm?
       Mr. Detor. Plato Cacberis is Monica Lewinsky's attorney.
       Mr. Traficant. He was.
       Mr. Detor. Yes.
       Mr. Traficant. How do I reach him, is his phone number in 
     the phone book?
       Mr. Detor. Yes, that phone number I just gave you.
       Mr. Traficant. Very good.
       Mr. Detor. All right.
       Mr. Traficant. Thanks, guy. Have him send me the documents. 
     Bye now.
       Mr. Detor. Bye.
       Mr. Traficant. That was Richard Detor. This is Wednesday, 
     August 1, 2001, and it's approximately 1:18 p.m. This 
     conversation involved the behavior of the government, the 
     FBI, the U.S. Attorneys and their extortion.


                         reporter's certificate

       I hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a true and 
     correct transcription of the tape-recorded conversation 
     represented to be recorded on August 1, 2001. This record was 
     prepared from a tape recording provided by Congressman James 
     A. Traficant, Jr.

                                           Lisa C. Nagy-Baker,

                      Registered Diplomate Reporter Notary Public.

     

                          ____________________