[Congressional Record Volume 147, Number 152 (Tuesday, November 6, 2001)]
[Extensions of Remarks]
[Pages E2010-E2014]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
PAPERS OF MISCONDUCT, U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT OF OHIO
______
HON. JAMES A. TRAFICANT, JR.
of ohio
in the house of representatives
Tuesday, November 6, 2001
Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Speaker, these pages are hereby memorialized in
the Record to document prosecutorial misconduct in the U.S. Attorney's
Office of the Northern District of Ohio.
January 24, 2000.
Congressman James A. Traficant, Jr.,
Overhill Rd.
Youngstown, OH.
Dear Jim: On November 1, 1999 I reached my 70th birthday.
As you know, I retired for good on January 2, 1999, after
practicing law for almost 47 years. Also, after having been
one of your staff members for 14 years.
My relationship with you was a most rewarding experience in
my life. I found the work I did interesting and profoundly
exciting because I was able to do something good for people
and our community of Youngstown-Mahoning Valley, Ohio.
It took me the most part of last year to try to relax and
try to enjoy life without the workaholic tendencies I had for
most of my adult life. The arrival of our gorgeous
granddaughter, Lara, certainly helped me to be able to sit
back and start ``smelling the roses.''
A most disconcerting event took place on Thursday, January
13, 2000. I thought that I should call it to your attention
because you appear to be the ``main target'' and I was
obviously contacted in their attempt coerce me to agree to
certain allegations that are absolutely not true. The
following is what happened.
On Thursday morning at about 8:30 AM someone called me on
the downstairs phone--I live in a high-rise condominium here
on Singer Island, Florida. I was informed that I should let
him in because they had to talk to me about you. He would not
tell me what it was all about. At this point, I felt coerced
and compelled to let them come up to our apartment and I did.
Three gentlemen came in and showed me their credentials and
then gave me their cards. Two of them were real bruisers, or
maybe I should say ``big''. The two FBI persons were, Michael
S. Pikunas of Youngstown, Ohio and John E. Stoll, also of
Youngstown, Ohio. The other fellow was Charles L. Perkins,
Special Agent for the Internal Revenue Service, Criminal
Investigations. At this point I really felt intimidated. They
made it clear that they were out to find information that
could or would be used against you. In fact, they made it
clear that if I admitted what they brought up they would
protect me.
At my age, and in my poor health condition, I am surprised
I did not collapse. They said that others in your office and
elsewhere had said certain things about me that violated
Federal Laws. I was absolutely astonished. By the way, they
never read me my rights but they just kept on pressing me to
admit to things that I not only did not do but I could never
have thought of doing.
They said they had evidence of my not working enough to
justify being paid. They said that I should have filed a
disclosure statement each year as required. They said I gave
you back some rental that had been paid for your space at 11
Overhill Rd. They said that I gave you part of what I
received for my pay. They also said I earned more money than
I should have while on your staff. In general, they said that
I was in violation of many laws and that if I admitted to
these violations so they could ``get you'' they would really
``protect me.''
Jim, as you know, I am not a criminal lawyer, I was
absolutely puzzled and certainly felt intimidated. I have
never been accused of violating the law or even violating
ethics as a lawyer. I really pondered over whether I should
contact you because I know how busy you are and how many
things are on your mind at all times. But, the other day, I
really received a shock.
A local FBI agent, Jeff Danik, called me and informed me
that the Youngstown fellows had asked him to serve a subpoena
on me. We finally got together on January 20, 2000. To my
continued amazement, the subpoena requested that I appear in
Cleveland, Ohio on February 1, 2000 to testify regarding John
Doe. Of course, I know they are referring to you as ``John
Doe''.
First of all, they did not give me much notice. Also, I
live in Florida and am retired. Why should I pay my own
expenses to travel to Cleveland? In winter to boot. I have
had to hire legal counsel to protect myself. How can the
Government do this and get away with it?
Jim, I certainly did deny and am denying that I have
violated any laws anywhere. The office building, as you know,
was transferred out of my name when I discovered during your
orientation as a new Congressman that I could not keep the
building in my name. I was informed by the appropriate
Congressional Committee that I did not have to be the one who
was designated to report my assets etc.
I also was informed that I did not surpass the earnings
where I could not still practice law. I also don't see how I
could have shared my pay with you or anyone when I know I was
losing income by being with you. Also, I know I don't have to
tell you what I did and how many hours I worked while on your
staff. All of this is nonsense.
I wish that all of this would go away but as a lawyer of
many years I guess I should know better. Since I have known
you, I have learned that your intellect and judgment would
surpass anyone I have ever met--and I mean that it just
doesn't seem fair that I can be intimidated, coerced and
whatever else during my retirement and at this time of my
life.
I hope it is not some desperate political maneuver on
someone's part. If it is, I shall really lose my faith in our
system.
I am very sorry that I must discombobulate your mind with
all of this. I am trying to ease my discomfort a bit but I
also feel compelled to let you know what is happening.
Please let me know if you have some words of comfort and
maybe some advice. I really am confused and agitated at this
point.
Sincerely,
Henry A. DiBlasio.
____
State of Ohio, County of Mahoning--Affidavit of John Innella
After being duly cautioned on my oath in accordance with
the law, I, John Innella, hereby depose and say:
At approximately 1:00 p.m. on Monday, April 30, 2001, I was
in the company of James A. Traficant, Jr., and was
unexpectedly interrupted by Henry Nemenz.
1. Henry Nemenz voluntarily told James Traficant in my
company, that ``Morford was trying to put words in his
mouth''.
[[Page E2011]]
2. His (Nemenz) attorney told him to ``tell Morford what
they wanted to hear so that he would not be indicted''.
3. In my presence, James Traficant and Henry Nemenz talked
about their original deal which was $17,000.00 for the barn
and additions because Jim Traficant already had the poles and
metal for the building.
4. In my presence, they discussed that the construction man
said he would bring in twenty (20) Amish and they would get
the job done in a week.
5. Nemenz said that he eventually got rid of his
construction man because of faulty construction and poor
management.
6. Nemenz and Traficant discussed the fact they
legitimately came to a reasonable business settlement that
Nemenz would have made with anyone under similar
circumstances.
7. Nemenz told Traficant that he was told by Morford ``not
to talk to Traficant''.
8. Nemenz told Traficant that all money that Traficant
owed, was paid in full, including the truck.
9. In my presence, Traficant and Nemenz agreed that the
stretching out of the work to be performed was the cause of
the cost overruns, and that it was not the fault of James
Traficant, which they had mutually agreed to be $17,000.00 in
addition to the truck.
10. Traficant and Nemenz agreed in my presence that
Traficant-had settled the accounts in full.
11. Nemenz stated in my presence that when Morford
interviewed him, he had four assistants, and the situation
was intimidating. He said that they did not want to hear what
he was saying. He said that he basically ``told them what
they wanted to hear''.
12 In my presence, Nemenz also said that the conversation
was ``bull shit''.
13. Nemenz said that he has agreed to sell Traficant a
black corvette. He said that he had realized that Traficant
had invested money in the car to make repairs because it had
sat so long unused. He further stated that he realized
Traficant put hardly any miles on the corvette. But when flap
developed over the barn, Nemenz decided that he wanted the
car back, saying that he would give credit for any of the
expenses. The real reason he wanted the car back was that it
was purchased as a graduation present for his son, and his
son was upset because Henry had sold it. Henry also said he
was also upset over the problems that had developed
concerning the construction work at the farm. Nemenz admitted
that he agreed to sell the car to Traficant, and thanked
Traficant for returning the car.
14. I was present during this entire conversation at
Bruno's Restaurant in Poland, Ohio.
Further Affiant Sayeth Naught.
Sworn to and Subscribed before me on this 13th day of June,
2001.
John Innella.
____
State of Ohio, County of Mahoning--Affidavit of Pat Naples, Jr., June
1, 2001
This affidavit is being freely made and recalled to the
best of my recollection.
This affidavit concerns the phone conversation between
myself and Assistant Attorney General Craig Morford.
This conversation took place after the 30 federal
indictments were handed down. The phone conversation lasted
the better part of an hour, if not more, and was tape
recorded.
The conversation started out by me telling Craig Morford
that he had a name missing from his indictments. I mentioned
the name and then he became very quiet. Morford asked how I
knew him and I proceeded to tell him that in the early 80's I
was a Lieutenant with the Mahoning County Sheriff's Dept. in
liquor and vice, and I was in charge of investigating this
person. We would conduct investigations on establishments
that were involved with organized crime within the city of
Youngstown that were not being investigated by Chief
Wellington, and this person was one of those. Morford stated
that he did know this person but didn't have enough to indict
him.
I also told Morford that this conversation had to stay
strictly confidential for how high up in the crime family
this person was, I did not need any retribution because the
last time that I got close to Altshler and Strollo I had a
fire bomb threat at my parent's home and my windows broken
out of my car.
(It was later found out that Morford did not keep this
conversation confidential. He did let a criminal defense
attorney know that there may still be a pending investigation
on this subject. This criminal defense attorney was defending
another person for murder and one of his subordinates for a
gambling charge, putting myself and my family in jeopardy.)
My main purpose in calling Morford was to look into
improprieties in a local municipal court. As the conversation
went on I told him about a drug distributor in Youngstown
with connections with law enforcement. I mentioned that I
really didn't want to give this information out to just
anybody because of the quantity that this person deals with.
Craig Morford stated I would have to get together with his
FBI agent Jeff Sedlack, I told him that I really don't trust
the FBI office in Youngstown because of my past experiences
with them. Morford tried to assure me that those agents were
no longer there, and that you can trust Sedlack, because
Morford didn't trust the other FBI agents either. He stated
Sedlack was assigned there to help clean that office up or
help to clean its image up, or something along that line.
Mr. Morford's further comments and the way he presented the
FBI here in Youngstown was not to be trusted, but you can
trust Sedlack.
Pat Naples, Jr.
____
[Re. U.S. vs. James A Traficant, Jr., Case No. 4:01 CR 207]
Transcript of Tape-Recorded Conversation Between Congressman James A.
Traficant, Jr., and Richard Detor, Former Employee of U.S. Aerospace,
Manassas, Virginia, on August 1, 2001
(Tape prepared by Lisa C. Nagy-Baker, a notary public
within and for the State of Ohio on this date, August 28,
2001, from a tape supplied by Congressman Traficant.)
Mr. Traficant. Hello.
Mr. Detor. Returning the page.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah. How you doing?
Mr. Detor. Well, having fun.
Mr. Traficant. I know. I got some information to give you.
I got it straight from Chance's son that J.J. did perjure
himself in the Chance trial, and that's what they did. He
went ahead and lied on me to save his ass.
Mr. Detor. Yeah.
Mr. Traficant. So I don't know. What's happening with you?
What did you hear?
Mr. Detor. I have been threatened, intimidated, essentially
tried to mold into being forced to lie. If I speak to
anybody, they'll come arrest me immediately. He told me that
he had me on perjury, although I've never provided a
statement to him. They said that I'm wearing Union pants
[unintelligible], and I either need to become wise and tell
them what they want to hear, or they're going to name me
August 15 as a co-conspirator.
Mr. Traficant. Okay. They want you in essence to lie, don't
they?
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. All right. Let me ask you; the reason why
is, this is the good news. I've got two people now that were
both told the same thing, and I've got one of them who said
it in front of a witness; and I'm going to make a motion for
prosecutorial misconduct on their threatening and
intimidation; and I'm going to do that, and they may call you
as a witness.
Mr. Detor. I've been threatened with the IRS. They told me
that the IRS was immediately going to investigate me and that
they were holding the IRS off, and I've been threatened with
going and being six weeks in a trial. They realize that I
would lose my security licenses and I would lose my
[unintelligible] licenses if there were any kind of a Federal
charge if found guilty, which would reasonably come, in all
likelihood. And they have called and been on me and tried
every threat, and they've gone all through my wife, what kind
of salary, why I bought the house I bought, why I drive the
kind of car I drive, you know, what my background is.
It has just been a nightmare of unbelievable proportions. I
really feel that I'm living in Red China.
Mr. Traficant. Okay. Let me ask you this. They more or less
said to you that they wanted you to lie, didn't they?
Mr. Detor. What they did is when they asked the question,
they say, well, this is what you're saying; and they change
what you're saying; and you stop and you go, no, that is not
what I am saying.
Traficant. They want you to more or less admit to the way
they're interpreting it, which would be a lie, wouldn't it?
Detor. Yes.
Traficant. But they give you the impression that if you
more or less accept their version, you'll have no more
problems.
Mr. Detor. Give immunity. They won't get the IRS. No
questions. No ifs and or buts. I'm dealing with an attorney
named Plato Cacberis, right there in Washington; and I was
dealing with one law firm. I said this is not acceptable.
This is not the United States. They can't sit there and try
to ask me to lie. They can't even suggest it. They told me
they subpoenaed all my bank records in the blind and all my
IRS stuff. You know, I mean I've listened to one story after
another from the Assistant U.S. Attorney.
Mr. Traficant. What was his name?
Mr. Detor. Morford.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah. He's the one doing the threatening?
Mr. Detor. Yeah.
Mr. Traficant. And he basically wants to lie, and he'll let
you alone, won't he?
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. Let me ask you something. I'm having a
hearing because I am going to call and give notice of the
courts to call Morford as a witness; and I have to have a
hearing on his behavior, and I will have three people that
will be testifying to the same thing you will testify to; and
if you were an attorney you'd lose your license, wouldn't
you?
Mr. Detor. Oh, absolutely. This is not ethical. I've gone
through hell. I have literally gone through hell.
Mr. Traficant. What I'm going to tell you is I am going to
subpoena you in this process against Morford; and all I want
you to do is tell the truth that if you would lie, they would
lay off you; and that's the bottom message they gave you.
Isn't that a fact?
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. Are you going to show up if I subpoena you
for such a hearing?
Mr. Detor. You have to handle it through the attorney's
name is Plato Cacberis.
Mr. Traficant. Could you give me that so I can write it
down. Hold a minute. Spell that.
[[Page E2012]]
Mr. Detor. It's C-A-C-B-E-R-I-S.
Mr. Traficant. Plato?
Mr. Detor. Yeah, Plato Cacberis. ***/***--hold on a second.
I got to find his card here in my pocket. I forget the last
four digits. They said if I talked to anybody, they'd come
arrest me immediately. If I did this--it's just been
unbelievable. It's ***/****.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, but I'm my own attorney, and I have a
right to talk to individuals that are being investigated.
Mr. Detor. That's correct.
Mr. Traficant. Did they say you couldn't talk to me?
Mr. Detor. Yeah, well, nobody. What they've done is
violated my Constitutional rights. I've gone to Plato and
asked Plato to go up to the public ethics group to bring this
to their attention.
Mr. Traficant. Did he?
Mr. Detor. He's doing it now. He's in the process of doing
it.
Mr. Traficant. Let me ask you this; if you would do this,
if you would file a lawsuit against them--I can't advise
you--I'm not an attorney; but here's what happened with
another guy who comes out, and I'm having lunch with the
guy--I think I gold you this, Richard--he comes out and he
was in a Rotary meeting. He sat down and said, Jim, I love
you; I apologize for what's happening. I said, well, tell the
truth. What did you tell the Grand Jury? He said, I told the
Grand Jury the truth; that we really didn't do anything
wrong.
Mr. Detor. All right. You need----
Mr. Traficant. But the bottom line was my attorney told me
that if I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear in the
words they wanted it said, they were going to indict me. My
attorney said you don't need this shit. He was a businessman;
you understand?
Mr. Detor. My attorney told me the same thing. Do you want
to spend $200,000 defending yourself, or is this person
susceptible? And I said I cannot lie. I cannot place myself
in any situation that I heard anybody ask or request for
papers or anything. And the attorney reviewed it; he looked
at it and he said the meals, they're all below $6; there's
not even ethics violations. There's nothing wrong with it.
Mr. Traficant. I paid for some of those meals.
Mr. Detor. That's what he said.
Mr. Traficant. It showed, didn't I? I paid for a lot of
meals.
Mr. Detor. Yes, and even the purchase of the boat. The
boat, there is no issue; there is no problem.
Mr. Traficant. I'll call the ethics committee about it. And
you remember when J.J. was so happy he wanted to buy the
boat, and I said J.J. you don't need this boat; but Al does
want this boat, and I don't want your money; do you remember?
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. How about contract; did you ever get the
contract on that boat? I never got it.
Mr. Detor. Yep, I got it.
Mr. Traficant. Could you send me a copy of it?
Mr. Detor. Yes, I'll do it through the attorney.
Mr. Traficant. Do that and do that fast. Here's what I'm
telling you. You let your attorney know that I'm going to
move for a hearing for Morford, on Morford, that he has done
this now; and if you come up and testify to that, this son of
a bitch may go to jail because what they're doing, this
Gestapo shit.
Mr. Detor. It is. And I never thought it could exist, and I
would never have been able to be convinced. I would never
have believed it in a million years. But it's exactly what
they're doing. It's exactly what they've been doing to me. I
mean, they have just ruined my life.
Mr. Traficant. How about Al Lang?
Mr. Detor. Haven't heard a peep from him.
Mr. Traficant. But you know that's what they did to him;
and, shit, he don't have the balls; he'd have probably said
anything, wouldn't he?
Mr. Detor. I have no idea, but the thing is I've talked to
other people, and they've all looked at me and they've said
you can only tell the facts. you can't stand before a judge
and lie to him. You can't do it. We know the type of person
you are. They said we also know the type of person you are;
if you thought there was anything unethical or anything
wrong, you would have had nothing to do with it. I said there
was not even a question of anything wrong or any improper
actions at any time in my mind in any way, shape or form, nor
did I ever hear anybody ask for anything in any way, shape or
form for anything.
Mr. Traficant. And you were there at everything we did,
weren't you?
Mr. Detor. Well, everything I know of.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, I never met with Cafaro; and when I
did, you know, this business about him giving money, he was
such a damned liar; he lied to everybody; but to save his
ass, he would lie and say anything, wouldn't he?
Mr. Detor. Well, when they asked me, I said I'm not even
aware of him getting any money from the boat at all. I said I
thought Al sunk the boat, ruined it and he's stuck with it
with no value on it now.
Mr. Traficant. That's exactly what he did.
Mr. Detor. I said the boat was professionally appraised. It
had a value. I said he was buying it for less than that
value. I said he ruined it. He damaged it and just walked
from the deal. I said, I'm not aware of dollar one that went
to anybody other than the money that he spent on doing the
repairs and then decided to go ahead and he was out of it. I
said if there had been any kind of a fee for favors or
anything else, somebody would have bought it; it would have
been all the way; it would have been a done deal. They
wouldn't have spent a year----
Mr. Traficant. I would have taken the $26,000 check from
J.J., wouldn't I?
Mr. Detor. Yep.
Mr. Traficant. God damned right; he was so happy; but
that's the bottom line, what they have on J.J. is he perjured
himself with the Chance gate, and you've got that impression
when he was going through that period of time, didn't you?
Mr. Detor. I was told that.
Mr. Traficant. Who told you?
Mr. Detor. Came through an attorney.
Mr. Traficant. Do you remember the name of the attorney?
Mr. Detor. It was one of the attorneys--oh, you know who it
was? The attorney's name was J. [unintelligible], and he was
advised of that by Al Lang.
Mr. Traficant. I see. And evidently Al Lang had known that
J.J. had perjured himself?
Mr. Detor. Yeah.
Mr. Traficant. While the guy sits in jail, Chance had told
his son and his son had told me that the attorneys had set
him up to get J.J. to lie. He didn't know until after he saw
my national TV show and talk show that, in fact, that
Leonardo [phonetic spelling], his attorney, was working with
the Feds and they set Chance up. Chance said he never got the
$13,000 from Strollo; but his attorney is the one that
convinced him he had to find somebody that was a legitimate
rich businessman and recommended Cafaro. Could you imagine
that?
Mr. Detor. Unbelievable.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, so anyway. I think you're on good
grounds. If they indict you, you're not going to lie for
these bastards, are you?
Mr. Detor. No.
Mr. Traficant. I think we're going to have a hell of a
fight here, but anyway, I'm going to have a hearing, and I'm
going to call you as a witness in that hearing.
Mr. Detor. Yep. That's fine. I'll grab the attorneys that
were, you know, present with me.
Mr. Traficant. But having known this and having known now
that there are others that I could call, you should sue them;
believe me, Richard.
Mr. Detor. We're going up to talk to public ethics to talk
to everybody we can because it's out of control. write a
letter to the U.S. Attorney General.
Mr. Detor. [Unintelligible.]
Mr. Traficant. You should also write a letter to the U.S.
Attorney General about what they're doing because this speaks
to what they've done with everybody in this case. You've got
people lying. They either have something to gain or something
to lose, and they've made mountains out of molehills. They've
made half truths into felonies. They've made loans into
kickbacks, and I've had it.
Mr. Detor. Yep.
Mr. Traficant. And you know I wouldn't accept any money.
You personally know that?
Mr. Detor. No.
Mr. Traficant. I mean, J.J. wanted to give me money over
that car deal; remember that 6,000? And I wouldn't take no
money from J.J., and I told him I wouldn't; remember?
Mr. Detor. And I guess the stuff that Al Lang handled it in
that corner of it, I don't really have any knowledge of. They
jumped all over me trying to ask about the $12,000. I said
this is ridiculous. I've got witnesses of where I returned it
to [unintelligible].
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, I know that; but I mean, you do know
that after that car we thought was only going to be 1,000
that I rented to go to Louisiana which turned out to be
6,000, that J.J. wanted to give me money and I would not
accept it. You knew that?
Mr. Detor. Well, I knew you wouldn't accept anything.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, I told you to tell them I don't want
their money.
Mr. Detor. Yeah, you wouldn't accept anything on anything.
All you wanted J.J. is to do what he agreed to do.
Mr. Traficant. And that was to do what?
Mr. Detor. To purchase the vehicle.
Mr. Traficant. He wanted to purchase the vehicle. You have
those papers, don't you?
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. I want a copy sent to me of those; and
second of all, the only thing I wanted from J.J. was he would
move not only the company but the headquarters up to
Youngstown.
Mr. Detor. Correct.
Mr. Traficant. That's about where it is. So anyway, I'm
going to have this hearing and, Richard, I'm going to be
calling you. Give me your address. I don't have your address.
Mr. Detor. You know what, it's through Plato Cacberis
because they said they would arrest me instantly if I talked
to anybody. If you hear an attorney so I understand that
you're representing yourself so I can----
Mr. Traficant. you can refer me to your attorney.
Mr. Detor. The best thing to do is to handle the rest of it
right through Plato. He'll deal with it. We are going to
public ethics. We're going to everybody. I've had threats
[[Page E2013]]
on me. They called my little girl, the nine-year old, little
Kaitlyn.
Mr. Traficant. Who called her?
Mr. Detor. I don't know, but they told her that I'm going
to be dead. All kinds of things. I have literally----
Mr. Traficant. How do you know it was the Feds who did it?
Mr. Detor. I don't know who did it, but all I know is my
life has gone to hell; and when I brought it to their
attention when they interviewed me, they laughed about it and
blow it off.
Mr. Traficant. Even the threats to your daughter?
Mr. Detor. Yes. That's my daughter. If I answer, nobody
talks. If she answers, they talk to her, and they tell her
that daddy's going to be dead. Daddy's bad; all kinds of
things. It's devastating her. It's making her a nervous
wreck.
Mr. Traficant. And you suspect it's the government?
Mr. Detor. I don't know who it is.
Mr. Traficant. You wouldn't suspect it to be Al Lang doing
that, would you?
Mr. Detor. No, I can't figure out what beef he has.
Mr. Traficant. And what would Cafaro have from doing that?
Mr. Detor. The thing is when they tried to tell me Al
Lang's saying things, who the hell is [unintelligible] buying
all those God damned boats for it. I never heard anything to
the contrary in my entire life.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah.
Mr. Detor. Has he lost his mind?
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, and I think it's very important and I
want you to talk to your attorney. If you could send me all
those documents that I've asked for, and tell him what we've
talked about and that he should go ahead and sue the bastards
because I'm going to have them into court; and that would be
a hell of a thing with you suing them and me having them into
court for their behavior with another guy. He can deny all he
wants, this other guy. I have a witness that heard this other
guy say those things.
Mr. Detor. Have you talked to any of the Congressional
ethics groups or anything on any of this stuff?
Mr. Traficant. I can't because it's a criminal thing, and
I'm just going to go through the courts; and they've got a
couple people that are really lying through their teeth. I've
been targeted, I told you that, for all these years. You know
that. You could tell by the way they're treating you.
Mr. Detor. Right.
Mr. Traficant. But Morford was the one that did the
threatening?
Mr. Detor. Yeah.
Mr. Traficant. And he wanted you, in essence, to lie?
Mr. Detor. That's what came out because it could not be
understood any other way; and then when they didn't like what
I was saying, they said, well, we didn't want to say this and
we didn't want to shake you up, but the IRS has a lot of
interest. We've subpoenaed all your records in the blind,
which I find is unconstitutional and illegal
[unintelligible]; but they tell me they've subpoenaed all my
records in the blind and that the IRS wants to launch an
audit against me immediately and that there were significant
issues there; and they told me that I was going to be
arrested and taken out of my office; that I would be taken to
Cleveland to be arraigned. I'd have to post a bond, and then
I'd have to spend a significant amount of money defending
myself.
I keep going over these issues and issues and issues, and
none of these make any sense. I don't even know where there's
anything even done wrong; and they said--well, they go on and
on and on.
Mr. Traficant. You basically told them that I did nothing
illegal?
Mr. Detor. Pardon me?
Mr. Traficant. You basically told them I did nothing
illegal?
Mr. Detor. I didn't either. There's nothing illegal.
Mr. Traficant. I know that. They would not accept it, would
they, Richard?
Mr. Detor. Oh, no. Absolutely no.
Mr. Traficant. Well, I'm telling you, I can't advise you
but I would get your attorney to file a lawsuit immediately
knowing know--have your attorney call me--and knowing now
that I'm moving to have him called as a witness in this
trial, Morford; and she's going to call a hearing on it to
see whether or not I can call her; and I will call you as a
witness to show his prosecutorial behavior. This is illegal.
Mr. Detor. This is illegal.
Mr. Traficant. They were extorting you.
Mr. Detor. Yes, they were.
Mr. Traficant. And if they've done this to you, what do you
think they've done to others?
Mr. Detor. I mean, the thing that I told them, I said, I
can't speak for the individual in any way other than when I
was with him; and I find this unbelievable to think anything
to the contrary. I said I find it unbelievable that any staff
member could be doing anything to the contrary because they
are so, they seem so sound and straight and narrow with
things being done right and things being done properly. I
said, I don't see it any other way. I said I'm sorry; I just
don't see anything.
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, but the bottom line is Morford let you
know in no uncertain terms if you lied, your problems would
all go away; and if you didn't, boy, you were going to end up
in jail?
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. That's the bottom line.
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. All right. Well, listen, you have your
attorney get in touch with me; and I'm recommending to you
that you consider filing a lawsuit against him because I'm
going to have a hearing on Morford's behavior.
Mr. Detor. I think, to tell you the truth, that the whole
thing needs to be thrown out.
Mr. Traficant. Well, this may lead to that, your
participation.
Mr. Detor. It's out of control.
Mr. Traficant. They're either going to screw you, me, or
they're going to get away with it or they're going to get
their ass in a sling; and maybe it's their ass in a sling and
everybody's afraid to go after them. And I'm one of the few
in America, Richard.
Mr. Detor. Yeah, I know.
Mr. Traficant. And I'm afraid to death. I'm not talking
big. I'm afraid to death, but I'm going after these bastards.
This is not what America's supposed to be. We shouldn't have
to fear our God damned Gestapo government.
Mr. Detor. Well, they referred to me as collateral damage;
and if I wasn't smart enough to get out of the way and decide
whether I was wearing a Union shirt or Confederate pants--
that's what he said to me quote-unquote, you're wearing Union
pants and confederate shirt or something of that nature.
They're shooting at you from both sides. You better make sure
you know which side you're going to be on, but you better be
on the winning side because you're in a lot of trouble. I
said to them, I'm sorry; I don't see what I'm in trouble for.
I didn't see anything happen. I wasn't aware of anything. I
didn't see one transaction of anything that you're alleging.
And then they said, well, he took $40,000 on his boat. I said
that's nonsense. That is absolute, 100 percent nonsense. I
said I'm not aware or ever heard anybody say anything about
it. And they said J.J. Cafaro gave him money out in
Youngstown personally and finally the FBI steps in and
[unintelligible]. I had no knowledge of that.
Mr. Traficant. Oh, but you know that Cafaro was such a
liar. You know that J.J. wasn't giving me cash. If he was
going to give me cash, he would have brought in $26,000 to
buy a boat, wouldn't he?
Mr. Detor. If J.J. Cafaro wanted to go do something in a
way, he would have just gone and done it. There's no doubt in
my mind. J.J.'s proven to be a liar through and through. He
induced my family to move down here. He fraudulently did it.
Damn it, my family was able to hang on to the house by my
wife's working, by me working. You know, I've got security
plans. In my entire life I have never done one thing wrong in
any way, shape or form. I respect the government; I respect
the government offices. I respected the Congressional bodies,
the executive bodies, everybody. I've worked for benefits for
this government to a degree; and to hear this and--
Mr. Traficant. And to be threatened that if you don't lie,
you're going to go to jail, that doesn't sound American, does
it?
Mr. Detor. It's not. It absolutely is--
Mr. Traficant. And that's the bottom line, isn't it,
Richard?
Mr. Detor. Yep.
Mr. Traficant. Okay. Well, listen. If you file that suit,
that suit should also be filed against Cafaro when you do it,
or do you have one filed against him?
Mr. Detor. I've got one filed against him now. And the
other thing that I was requested to do was drop my charges
against Cafaro or settle it because they did not want me in
court with Cafaro before this case.
Mr. Traficant. You know why? They know that J.J. is a liar.
J.J. called them a liar on the stand in the Chance trial, and
this is why they're worried about it. This is why they got to
have somebody. They know what they're doing and it's
completely illegal. They're forcing you not to, in fact, make
yourself whole over an illegal act by Cafaro. He broke the
law in Virginia.
Mr. Detor. Yeah, what they have is--well, I've got him
[unintelligible] he was writing all these bad checks, and I
had even gone to the Commonwealth attorney to make sure that
nobody had given their [unintelligible].
Mr. Traficant. Yeah, and here they are trying to protect
Cafaro because Cafaro to save his own ass from perjury is
lying about me.
Mr. Detor. What kind of witness does Cafaro really make
when the reality comes out that the guy's lying--
Mr. Traficant. Well, he's going to have Al Lang to make him
look like he's telling the truth, but they can't handle the
fact that you are so upright and upstanding a man of
integrity, and it's going to blow their case; do you
understand?
Mr. Detor. Yeah, they tried to tear me apart, IRS. They
tried then saying that I committed fraud in order to obtain
my house, which is nonsense because the bank told them I
qualified for the house before I even moved. I was all
prequalified. They tried to tell me that I was trying to
support my wife's lavish lifestyle. They had no idea that my
wife has worked 20 years, worked her way through college and
that her family is very financially well off; and we have
never sought money from anybody. And when I moved from New
Jersey, I was carefully, carefully debt free and had no
obligations to anybody; and the thing about having to commit
fraud with a bank in order to obtain a mortgage is pure
nonsense. That's where they've gone. They've gone after me in
every way, shape or form.
[[Page E2014]]
Mr. Traficant. And Cafaro lied to you from day one, didn't
he?
Mr. Detor. Yes, he did.
Mr. Traficant. And everything he said was a lie?
Mr. Detor. And I have numerous other witnesses where he
lied to them. He lied about their employment.
Mr. Traficant. Who were some of those witnesses?
Mr. Detor. You got Lonnie Sikowski, 30 years at the FAA.
You got Walt Allison, former CIA, top level clearances. You
have Amanda Simon. You've got a guy named Jim Phillips who
sold the airplane to Cafaros, and then they try to say
they're not responsible when I was right there in a meeting
where they said it was Cafaro Company's. See, they're using
it against me saying that they're not Cafaro Company. [Names
are phonetic spellings.]
Mr. Traficant. Have your attorney send me a list of those
names, too. Listen, I'm going to let you go, but keep in mind
I'm going to be calling you because I'm taking this son of a
bitch to a hearing.
Mr. Detor. Like I said, I can only tell the truth. I fear
of my children's lives. I'm scared to death.
Mr. Traficant. You're going to be subpoenaed by me.
Mr. Detor. Do it through the attorney.
Mr. Traficant. I will.
Mr. Detor. The threats and intimidation; I'm willing to go
to the media. I'm willing to go anyplace, you know.
Mr. Traficant. File you lawsuit and go the media and say in
their zeal to get Traficant, they wanted me to lie. That's
the bottom line; and they pressured me to lie and made it
known very clearly from what you told me that if I lie, all
my problems would go way.
Mr. Detor. I didn't lie. They wanted me to. I refused. I
just said I keep calm. I've discussed it with my wife. I
discussed it with other associates. They said that I was
[unintelligible] with the IRS. I basically couldn't even
speak, and my family members sat there with me, and they
said, Rick, we know you; you won't lie; you don't lie; don't
lie. Don't be coerced into lying. I said they're telling me
they're going to ruin my life if I don't.
I basically am at a breaking point. I'm mentally running, I
mean to tell you the truth, I'm ready to just go ahead and
blow my head off. It is so bad, if it wasn't for my kids and
the strain it would have on my kids, I'd be gone.
Mr. Traficant. Richard, why don't you go public. Talk to
your attorney; go public, file the lawsuit when you do, and
I'm calling for a hearing on his conduct, on Morford's
conduct. Listen to me carefully and you won't have any more
problems because the truth sets us free.
Mr. Detor. Yes, it does.
Mr. Traficant. I'll get back to you. Thanks, big guy. All
right. Have your attorney call me. Is he involved with any
law firm or is that his firm?
Mr. Detor. Plato Cacberis is Monica Lewinsky's attorney.
Mr. Traficant. He was.
Mr. Detor. Yes.
Mr. Traficant. How do I reach him, is his phone number in
the phone book?
Mr. Detor. Yes, that phone number I just gave you.
Mr. Traficant. Very good.
Mr. Detor. All right.
Mr. Traficant. Thanks, guy. Have him send me the documents.
Bye now.
Mr. Detor. Bye.
Mr. Traficant. That was Richard Detor. This is Wednesday,
August 1, 2001, and it's approximately 1:18 p.m. This
conversation involved the behavior of the government, the
FBI, the U.S. Attorneys and their extortion.
reporter's certificate
I hereby certify that the above and foregoing is a true and
correct transcription of the tape-recorded conversation
represented to be recorded on August 1, 2001. This record was
prepared from a tape recording provided by Congressman James
A. Traficant, Jr.
Lisa C. Nagy-Baker,
Registered Diplomate Reporter Notary Public.
____________________