[Congressional Record Volume 146, Number 97 (Monday, July 24, 2000)]
[House]
[Pages H6745-H6747]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
GRANTING CONSENT OF CONGRESS TO RED RIVER BOUNDARY COMPACT
Mr. GEKAS. Mr. Speaker, I move to suspend the rules and agree to the
joint resolution (H.J. Res. 72) granting the consent of the Congress to
the Red River Boundary Compact, as amended.
The Clerk read as follows:
H.J. Res. 72
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. CONGRESSIONAL CONSENT.
(a) In General.--The consent of Congress is given to the
Red River Compact entered into between the States of Texas
and Oklahoma and the new boundary established by the compact.
(b) New Compact.--The compact referred to in subsection (a)
sets the boundary between the States of Texas and Oklahoma as
the vegetation line on the south bank of the Red River
(except for the Texoma area where the boundary is established
pursuant to procedures provided for in the compact) and is
the compact--
(1) agreed to by the State of Texas in House Bill 1355
approved by the Governor of Texas on May 24, 1999; and
(2) agreed to by the State of Oklahoma in Senate Bill 175
approved by the Governor of Oklahoma on June 4, 1999.
(c) Compact.--The Acts referred to in subsection (b) are
recognized by Congress as an interstate compact pursuant to
section 10 of Article I of the United States Constitution.
(d) Construction.--The compact shall not in any manner
alter--
(1) any present or future rights and interests of the
Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Tribes, the Chickasaw Nation, and
the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma and their members or Indian
successors-in interest;
(2) any tribal trust lands;
(3) allotted lands that may be held in trust or lands
subject to a Federal restriction against alienation;
(4) any boundaries of lands owned by the tribes and nations
referred to in paragraph (1), including lands referred to in
paragraphs (2) and (3), that exist now or that may be
established in the future under Federal law; and
(5) the sovereign rights, jurisdiction, or other
governmental interests of the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache
Tribes, the Chickasaw Nation, and the Choctaw Nation of
Oklahoma and their members or Indian successors-in interest
presently existing or which may be acknowledged by Federal
and tribal law.
(e) Effective Date.--This Act shall take effect on August
31, 2000.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to the rule, the gentleman from
Pennsylvania (Mr. Gekas) and the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott)
each will control 20 minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Gekas).
Mr. GEKAS. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
As everyone knows by now, the Constitution requires that when any one
State or more than one State wishes to enter into an agreement with one
or another State, that agreement is subject to the consent of the
Congress. That is why our committee, charged with the responsibility of
overseeing those kinds of agreements, brings to the floor, just as we
have now, this pending agreement, already reached between the States of
Texas and Oklahoma with respect to the boundary line, that momentous
boundary line that exists between the two States, namely the Red River.
It appears that over the years the Red River changes its contours
from time to time and causes difficulty for everyone concerned in
determining the actual dividing line between those two great States in
the Southwest. Such continued argument about the boundary has resulted
in a final resolution of it. Yet just as the final resolution was
reached, it was also determined that the Indian tribes that abound in
that area were themselves hurt, or they felt that they would be hurt by
the final agreement. They determined that some of their interests, land
interests and other, would be harmed if they were not consulted or made
a part of the agreement, so that their concerns could be addressed.
Voila, then, we have this new compact before us which takes into
account all the concerns that the Indian tribes have uttered over the
years. And it was as a result of the dispatch by our committee of our
chief counsel, Ray Smietanka, and minority counsel, Mr. Lachmann, to
that area that lay the groundwork for the final resolution of this
problem.
{time} 1530
But we are glad to report that here today we are ready to have the
House vote on a complete finalization of the boundary line that the Red
River constitutes.
Madam Speaker, I include for the Record the following letter and cost
estimate:
U.S. Congress,
Congressional Budget Office,
Washington, DC, July 20, 2000.
Hon. Henry J. Hyde,
Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, House of
Representatives, Washington, DC.
Dear Mr. Chairman: The Congressional Budget Office has
prepared the enclosed cost estimate for H.J. Res. 72,
granting the consent of the Congress to the Red River
Boundary Compact.
If you wish further details on this estimate, we will be
pleased to provide them. The CBO staff contact is Mark
Grabowicz, who can be reached at 226-2860.
Sincerely,
Barry B. Anderson
(for Dan L. Crippen, Director).
Enclosure.
Congressional Budget Office Cost Estimate, July 20, 2000
h.j. res. 72--granting the consent of the congress to the red river
boundary compact, as ordered reported by the house committee on the
judiciary on july 29, 2000
H.J. Res. 72 would give Congressional consent to the Red
River Compact entered into by the states of Texas and
Oklahoma concerning the new boundary between these states
that would be established by the compact. Enacting the
resolution would result in no cost to the federal government.
Because enactment of H.J. Res. 72 would not affect direct
spending or receipts, pay-as-you-go procedures would not
apply. The resolution contains no intergovernmental or
private-sector mandates as defined in the Unfunded Mandates
Reform Act and would impose no costs on state, local, or
tribal governments.
The CBO staff contact for this estimate is Mark Grabowicz,
who can be reached at 226-2860. This estimate was approved by
Peter H. Fontaine, Deputy Assistant Director for Budget
Analysis.
Madam Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SCOTT. Madam Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman
from Texas (Mr. Sandlin) whose district is affected by this compact, be
allowed to control the time on this side.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mrs. Biggert). Is there objection to the
request of the gentleman from Virginia?
[[Page H6746]]
There was no objection.
Mr. SANDERS. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may
consume.
Madam Speaker, I would like to first thank the gentleman from
Pennsylvania (Chairman Gekas) and the gentleman from New York (Mr.
Nadler), the ranking member of the House Subcommittee on Commercial and
Administrative Law, as well as the committee staff, for working with
all of the parties interested in this legislation so that we can bring
a fair and well-crafted bill to the floor today.
Madam Speaker, House Joint Resolution 72 grants a consent of Congress
to the River Boundary Compact entered into between the States of
Oklahoma and Texas. This compact establishes a new practical boundary
between the two States and ends over 200 years of jurisdictional
uncertainty. The State legislatures of both Texas and Oklahoma have
approved the compact with overwhelming support.
Madam Speaker, the Red River is 1,290 miles long. For about half of
this distance, it serves as the Texas-Oklahoma border. To the great
frustration of many of those trying to use the river as a
jurisdictional marker, mature rivers like those of the American Midwest
tend to meander a great deal.
The natural tendency of a river flowing across flat country is to
meander and flow loose as it erodes the outer side of a bend and
deposits sediment on the inner side. It is clear that several of the
loops of the Red River have changed in this way.
As the Speaker undoubtedly knows, the State of Texas was an
independent nation from the years 1836 to 1845. In 1841, engineers
surveyed the border along the Red River between the Republic of Texas
and the United States. The survey set the boundary between the two
countries on the southern bank of the river. This definition was later
refined by the Supreme Court of the United States as the gradient
boundary line on the south bank.
The survey was carefully done, and the results of the survey as
recorded in the engineers' report and monuments placed along the border
were accepted by both governments as the true and legal boundary.
Unfortunately, however, the river paid no attention to the survey;
and in the years since 1841, the Red River has left that border high
and dry. As a result, the artificial boundary line long the Red River
has caused general confusion in our States for many decades.
The States of Texas and Oklahoma recognize that there are actual and
potential disputes, controversies, and criminal and civil litigation
problems arising out of the location of the boundary line between these
two States along the Red River. In particular, an inability to identify
the boundary at a point in time is a significant problem for law
enforcement personnel, taxing authorities, and citizens on both sides
of the river.
It is in the interest of the party States to establish the boundary
between the States through the use of a readily identifiable and
natural landmark. This identifiable line is established in the Red
River Boundary Compact. The Compact sets the boundary between the
States of Texas and Oklahoma as the vegetation line on the south bank
of the Red River, except for the Texoma area where the boundary is
established pursuant to procedures provided for in the compact approved
by both States.
The vegetation line, which includes trees, shrubs and grasses, is
easily recognizable. More importantly, the use of the vegetation line
as the boundary marker also maintains historical significance.
Surveyors of the General Land Office and Bureau of Land Management have
confirmed that the vegetation line is substantially the same as the
gradient boundary line, with the important distinction of being
identifiable without a survey.
Like the Red River itself, this compact is the culmination of years
of work. It is not easy to settle a jurisdiction battle that dates back
to the Louisiana Purchase.
The U.S. Supreme Court has tried twice to settle this dispute, which
at one point brought the governor of Oklahoma to the border in a tank.
However, true to the slogan ``One Riot, One Ranger,'' the good governor
of Oklahoma and his tank was held off by a lone Texas Ranger on his
horse.
Madam Speaker, this is good legislation. A great deal of effort went
into ensuring that the interest of all parties along the Red River are
protected in the compact.
It is important to note that the terms of the Red River Boundary
Compact will not affect private property ownership or boundaries. The
compact is strictly political in nature and will in no way alter the
property or the claims of individuals or federally recognized Indian
tribes.
Finally, I want to take this opportunity before the House to
recognize the tireless efforts of the chairman of the Red River
Boundary Commission of the State of Texas, Mr. William Abney, from
Marshall, Texas, a well-respected East Texas attorney, as well as the
other members of both the Texas and Oklahoma commissions.
I would also like to offer special thanks to my colleague from Texas
(Mr. Thornberry) who is here today for his work and for the work of his
staff. I think both the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Thornberry) and I
recognize that the true work of the House is done by the staff.
I urge Congress to pass House Joint Resolution 72.
Madam Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. GEKAS. Madam Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the
gentleman from Texas (Mr. Thornberry).
Mr. THORNBERRY. Madam Speaker, this resolution deals with a special
function entrusted to Congress under article I, section 10 of the
Constitution.
I want to express my gratitude to the gentleman from Pennsylvania
(Chairman Gekas) and also the gentleman from New York (Mr. Nadler), the
ranking member, for the serious, thoughtful way that they have met this
responsibility and for their patience and persistence in making sure
that we get every detail of this compact just right.
I also want to thank their staffs, especially Ray Smietanka and David
Lachmann, for their work which brought this matter to a successful
conclusion and, of course, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Sandlin) and
the other cosponsors of this bill, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Hall),
the gentleman from Oklahoma (Mr. Lucas), the gentleman from Oklahoma
(Mr. Watkins) and the gentleman from Oklahoma (Mr. Watts), all of whom
represent the border between Texas and Oklahoma.
Finally, I want to thank Trey Bahm of my staff for his work in making
sure that we get it right.
As the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Sandlin) said, Madam Speaker, this
dispute goes back 200 years to the Louisiana Purchase. The boundary
line between the Louisiana territory and Spain was not well defined at
that time. But a treaty with Spain concluded in 1819 by Secretary of
State John Quincy Adams helped to define the boundary somewhat more
clearly. That boundary was reaffirmed by the U.S. and Mexico and the
U.S. and the Republic of Texas.
Later the Supreme Court found that the proper boundary was the
gradient boundary along the south bank of the Red River. The problem is
that changes periodically, and so it is a difficult thing to measure.
They have to have a survey crew go out there to decide where the
boundary is every time the river changes. Obviously, that has not
worked very well.
Over the years there have been disputes of various kinds. The
incident that my colleague the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Sandlin)
referred to in the 1930s was one in which Oklahoma failed to follow a
court ruling to close the border. One of the Rangers that was sent to
deal with the Oklahoma National Guard and the tanks that they brought
happened to be my wife's grandfather. And there was a picture of him in
Life Magazine meeting the tank, proving that one tank and one Ranger
was a pretty equal match.
More recently we have not had that kind of open warfare, but we have
had difficulties in law enforcement taxation.
So having a clearly identifiable border, which this resolution sets
out, which has been passed by both the State legislatures of Oklahoma
and Texas I think makes sense. We guarantee private property rights. We
guarantee the rights of the Indian tribes, as the gentleman from
Pennsylvania (Chairman Gekas) pointed out.
[[Page H6747]]
So this, I think at long last, after 200 years, brings to conclusion
the disputes and the difficulties raised by this border. I hope that it
will gain the unanimous approval of my colleagues.
Moment of Silence in Memory of Officer Jacob B. Chestnut and Detective
John M. Gibson
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursuant to the Chair's announcement of
earlier today, the House will now observe a moment of silence in memory
of Officer Jacob B. Chestnut and Detective John M. Gibson.
Members in the Chamber and the staff and those in the gallery may
wish to rise for a moment of silence.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from
Pennsylvania (Mr. Gekas).
Mr. GEKAS. Madam Speaker, we had mentioned the fact that the concerns
of the Indian tribes in the area were a highlight of the agreement that
was finally reached. As a matter of fact, we approved an amendment in
full committee, which is now part of the bill, which takes into account
those concerns.
Here we have a resolution issued by the Kiowa, Comanche & Apache
Intertribal Land Use Committee, which, in effect, approves and supports
the amendment, the language that is now in the bill that expresses our
concern about the Indian tribe concerns. And it has been duly certified
and rendered to our committee. I include for the Record that
resolution:
Kiowa, Comanche and Apache Intertribal Land Use Committee
Resolution No. 00-10
Whereas, the Kiowa, Comanche and Apache Tribes of Oklahoma
are federally recognized Tribes with approved constitutions;
and
Whereas, the Kiowa, Comanche and Apache Intertribal Land
Use Committee (KCAILUC) is the duly authorized and delegated
official body given the responsibility and authority by the
three tribes to act on their behalf with respect to the care,
maintenance and development of commonly owned tribal
properties and resources; and
Whereas, it is the desire of the Kiowa, Comanche and Apache
Intertribal Land Use Committee (KCAILUC) to accept the
Amendment to H.J. Res. 72 Offered by Mr. Gekas as follows:
(d) Construction--The compact shall not in any manner
alter--(1) any present or future rights and interests of the
Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Tribes, the Chickasaw Nation, and
the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma and their members or Indian
successors-in-interest; (2) any tribal trust lands; (3)
allotted lands that may be held in trust or lands subject to
a Federal restriction against alienation; (4) any boundaries
of lands owned by the tribes and nations referred to in
paragraph (1), including lands referred to in paragraphs (2)
and (3), that exist now or that may be established in the
future under Federal law; and (5) the sovereign rights,
jurisdiction, or other governmental interests of the Kiowa,
Comanche, and Apache Tribes, the Chickasaw Nation, and the
Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma and their members or Indian
successors-in-interest presently existing or which may be
acknowledged by Federal and tribal law.
Now Therefore Be It Resolved, that the Kiowa, Comanche and
Apache Intertribal Land Use Committee (KCAILUC) hereby
approve and support the Amendment to H.J. Res. 72 Offered by
Mr. Gekas.
CERTIFICATION
The foregoing KCAILUC Resolution No. 00-10 was duly adopted
at a Regular Monthly Meeting of the Kiowa, Comanche and
Apache Intertribal Land Use Committee held at the KCA
Administration Office on July 12, 2000, by a vote of 6 For 1
Against 0 Abstain. A quorum being present and at least two
representatives from each tribe concurring in the vote.
Billy Evans Horse,
Chairman.
Melvin Kerchee, Jr.,
Secretary.
Mr. CONYERS. Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise in support of H.J.
Res. 72, a Joint Resolution granting the consent of Congress to the Red
River Boundary compact. This bipartisan legislation will re-enforce the
eroding Red River south bank and establish a new boundary between the
states of Texas and Oklahoma. The new boundary is a vegetation line
that is not as susceptible to the forces of nature and is substantially
the same as the gradient line used to originally determine the states'
boundaries.
Initially, three tribal nations, the Kiowa, the Comanche, and the
Apaches expressed concerns regarding this legislation's effect on the
status of land from which the tribes derive oil and gas royalties. To
remedy that issue, language, approved by officials from Texas,
Oklahoma, the Indian Tribes, and the Bureau of Indian Affairs, was put
into the legislation confirming that neither the rights of the Indian
nations nor the boundaries of the Indians lands will be altered by the
compact.
I commend my colleagues for working together in a bipartisan manner
to resolve this important issue and I strongly support the effort.
Mr. WATTS of Oklahoma. Madam Speaker, I rise as a cosponsor of H.J.
Res. 72, the Red River Boundary Compact, and urge my colleagues to
support this important legislation. Today, with Congressional consent
the border dispute between Oklahoma and Texas that has existed for more
than 100 years will come to an end.
The official boundary is currently the south bank of the Red River.
However, the Red River constantly runs dry, which makes determining the
south bank difficult. There was an obvious need for a new, more
definitive way to determine the border.
In 1996, Oklahoma and Texas agreed upon creating a Red River Boundary
Commission to solve this border dispute. In the last year, this
commission released their findings and both Oklahoma and Texas state
governments have agreed on this compromise. This agreement would
clarify and affix the boundary between Oklahoma and Texas as the
vegetation line on the south bank of the Red River. This agreement
would mean that the Red River would be part of the State of Oklahoma,
where it belongs.
Madam Speaker, I urge my colleagues to support this resolution. We
need to put a stamp on this agreement which will end the Red River War,
and I urge my colleagues to support H.J. Res. 72.
Mr. GEKAS. Madam Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the motion offered by the
gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Gekas) that the House suspend the
rules and pass the joint resolution, H.J. Res. 72, as amended.
The question was taken; and (two-thirds having voted in favor
thereof) the rules were suspended and the joint resolution, as amended,
was passed.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
____________________