[Congressional Record Volume 145, Number 139 (Thursday, October 14, 1999)]
[House]
[Pages H10078-H10083]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                              {time}  1400
MOTION TO INSTRUCT CONFEREES ON H.R. 1501, JUVENILE JUSTICE REFORM ACT 
                                OF 1999

  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I offer a privileged motion.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Hansen). The Clerk will report the 
motion.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Ms. Jackson-Lee of Texas moves that the managers on the 
     part of the House at the conference on the disagreeing votes 
     of the two Houses on the Senate amendment to the bill, H.R. 
     1501, be instructed to insist that--
       (1) the committee of conference should immediately have its 
     first substantive meeting to offer amendments and motions, 
     including gun safety amendments and motions, and
       (2) the committee of conference report a conference 
     substitute by October 20, the six month anniversary of the 
     tragedy at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, and 
     with sufficient opportunity for both the House and the Senate 
     to consider gun safety legislation prior to adjournment.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee) 
will be recognized for 30 minutes, and the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. 
Pease) will be recognized for 30 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee).
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I 
may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I would think this House of Representatives and the 
United States Senate would want to be known to the American people as a 
Congress that works, a Congress that is responsive, a Congress that is 
sensitive to the needs of the American people.
  I would prefer not standing here today. I would prefer actually being 
in conference to discuss H.R. 1501, the Juvenile Justice Reform Act, 
that includes gun safety measures that have been debated for a long 
time in the United States House of Representatives and, in fact, was 
passed out of the United States Senate. Yet now, it is October 14 and 
our conference has not yet had an additional meeting.
  Next week, October 20, we will find ourselves 6 months in the 
anniversary or the commemoration of the tragedy at Columbine High 
School in Littleton, Colorado. I believe it is imperative that the 
Committee of the Conference report a conference substitute by that 
date, the 6-month anniversary of the tragedy at Columbine.

[[Page H10079]]

  If we were to report a conference substitute, which we are perfectly 
able to do, we would then have sufficient time to bring to both the 
House and the Senate this legislation that the American people are 
asking for, along with the opportunity for the President of the United 
States to sign this bill.
  Mr. Speaker, we need not repeat the figures that we have said over 
and over again. Thirteen children die every day from homicides. I have 
been dealing with this action and these issues for a long time. I am 
reminded of some 6 years ago, almost 7, 1992, 1993, as a member of the 
Houston City council, when we were having in the City of Houston any 
number of accidental shootings, children using guns and shooting 
children; babies taking guns; 3-year-olds accidentally finding guns and 
shooting another child.
  We had a high number of these incidents where children were going 
into the emergency room. Fortunately, some of those children lived, but 
our medical professionals told us that we were spending as much as 
$65,000 for a child injured by a gun. We gathered our heads and our 
resources in a bipartisan manner, though my city council is not 
Republican or Democrat, and we passed the gun safety and responsibility 
act which held parents responsible, adults, for children getting guns 
in their hands.
  Mr. Speaker, we saw a 50 percent decline, 50 percent decline, in the 
number of shootings and deaths by children, accidental, in Harris 
County and the City of Houston.
  Now, today I stand before this body begging that we do the 
responsible thing, which is to pass gun safety legislation. The Senate 
passed gun safety legislation in early May, and the Republican House 
leadership waited over a month to consider gun safety legislation while 
the NRA drafted a phony loophole-filled bill that weakened the current 
law. More than a month has passed before conferees were appointed. We 
were asking every day, I remember, before we went on a work recess in 
August.
  In the meantime, the Republican leadership again raised a phony issue 
to justify the delay. They actually claimed the ban on importing high-
capacity ammo clips was a tax bill.
  Let me at this point say there are many Republicans who agree that we 
should move forward. We have worked with the chairman of the Committee 
on the Judiciary on the House side, and I believe there are many issues 
that the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Hyde) and Democrats, along with 
the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Conyers) on the Committee on the 
Judiciary and those of us appointed to the conference committee, can 
actually agree with.
  Why then can we not do what the conference committee demands of us? 
Go to conference and generate a compromise to provide more safety 
features, more safety as it relates to guns for the American people.
  The conference has held only one meeting, Mr. Speaker, over 2 months 
ago, only for the purpose of giving opening statements. Our appetite 
was whet at that time. We thought we were on the move. We thought we 
were going to have other meetings so that we could pursue this. It is 
outrageous, Mr. Speaker, that we have not had a serious working meeting 
for some 6 months since Columbine, and we have still done nothing.
  This motion that I am offering today is an extremely important 
motion, Mr. Speaker, because it says the thing that the American people 
have sent us to do. It says, get to work immediately. Report a 
conference substitute by October 20, the 6-month anniversary of 
Columbine. Let us not have our words be of no substance, bring no 
comfort to the American people.
  I remember the leader of this House, the gentleman from Missouri (Mr. 
Gephardt), telling us of the terrible moment he had in going to the 
funeral of those young people in Columbine; and he said the most moving 
experience he had was that of a parent who lost a child who said, 
simply, Mr. Leader, will you do something, will you do something?
  Now, today, October 14, nearly the 6-month anniversary of that 
tragedy, we have done nothing. We must give the House and the Senate 
time to consider gun safety before this session of the Congress 
adjourns. Mr. Speaker, this is a simple request.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. PEASE. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, as the Speaker knows, there are many ways to reach 
decisions. Conference committees do their work publicly. They do their 
work privately and, in fact, the reason that conferees on this 
conference committee are not here on the floor today to respond to the 
presentation made by the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee) is 
that they are at this moment engaged in negotiations and discussions on 
this issue.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the 
gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky).
  Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. 
Jackson-Lee) for yielding me time.
  Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong support of the motion to instruct 
conferees on the juvenile justice bill. A number of us on this side of 
the aisle came down several mornings in a row and read the names of 
young people that had died because of gun violence since Columbine. We 
read the names of the average of 13 children killed every day, 
a Columbine every day in this country, due to gun violence. We read 
their names, and we read their ages; 10-, 
11-, 14-, 15-year-olds killed by gun violence since Columbine.
  Now the Members of the conference committee have an opportunity to 
respond to that, to say we are going to do something. Are we going to 
stop all the killing? No, we are not going to stop all the killing. Can 
we save some lives? Can we save some children from being on that list? 
We can do that. Millions of American families are counting on Congress 
to help end the cycle of violence that has taken the lives of too many 
children. We must have a juvenile justice bill that includes these 
modest, common sense gun safety measures that are so widely supported 
by the American people.
  The Senate passed these common sense gun safety provisions this year, 
and it would require the sale of child safety locks with each handgun. 
Who could possibly be opposed? We could prevent every single accidental 
shooting of children that pick up a handgun.
  Close the gun show sales loophole. Why not prevent criminals from 
getting handguns at gun shows? And ban the importation of large 
capacity ammunition clips. We, however, have failed to pass any gun 
safety measures this year. I urge, along with my colleague, the 
gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee), the House negotiators to 
agree to the Senate's common sense gun safety measures, and I urge them 
to do it now. It is time to pass, past time to pass, sensible gun 
safety legislation to protect our children and safeguard our 
communities.
  I urge my colleagues to support this motion to instruct.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I 
may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, let me thank the gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. 
Schakowsky), because she has recounted where we are in this lack of 
activity on this very important issue. Might I remind my colleagues 
that Columbine was not the only tragic incident that we faced with our 
children suffering the frightening experience of having guns in schools 
and seeing young people with guns.
  Conyers, Georgia, one month after Littleton, Colorado. In addition, 
several shootings took place in Illinois, particularly the terrible 
shooting during on the July 4 holiday when Benjamin Nathaniel Smith in 
a hateful rampage killed 2 people and injured 9 others. On July 29, 
Mark Barton from Atlanta, Georgia, killed nine people and wounded 13; 
and on August 5, the day the conference committee finally met, Allen 
Eugene Miller, Pelham, Alabama, went into his former places of 
employment and killed two co-workers and a third person at another 
company.
  None of us have been able to get out of our minds the terrible 
tragedy in Los Angeles of the Jewish Community Center as we saw babies 
running out of their day care center, hands holding on to police for 
dear life, while a deranged shooter who had gotten a gun from a gun 
show, ultimately traced back to a gun show, and took his deranged mind

[[Page H10080]]

and his deranged attitudes and shot individuals at a day care center 
and ultimately killed another individual.
  Mr. Speaker, the issue of this motion to instruct is for the House 
and the Senate conferees to get to work.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from 
Chicago, Illinois (Mr. Rush), my friend and a member of the Committee 
on Commerce.
  Mr. RUSH. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this motion to instruct. 
It is very simple for me, Mr. Speaker. It is vital that the conference 
committee move forward on this very, very important and crucial piece 
of legislation, H.R. 1501.
  Mr. Speaker, let me remind the Members here that the Senate passed 
gun safety legislation in early May of this year, early May, Mr. 
Speaker. Now it is mid-October, and we still have no action on this 
particular bill.
  The House, Republican House leadership, waited over a month to 
consider gun safety legislation. While they waited, in the back room, 
in the smoke-filled back room, the NRA was busy at work drafting a 
phony loophole-filled bill that weakened even the current law.

                              {time}  1415

  More than a month passed before the conferees were appointed. In the 
meantime, the Republican leadership raised phony issues, blue slipping 
issues to justify their delay. Any excuse for delay was the order of 
the day, any excuse.
  The most suspicious argument was foisted upon this body, excuse after 
excuse, delay after delay. They actually claim, Mr. Speaker, as a final 
resort, they claim the ban on importing high-capacity ammo clips was 
really a tax bill. How ludicrous. How ridiculous.
  Mr. Speaker, it is so shameful that the conference has held only one 
meeting, and this was over 2 months ago, on this very, very important 
and critical issue.
  The people in my district, the First District of Illinois, they are 
pleading, they are begging, they are waiting for this Congress to do 
something about gun safety. They want us to move, and they want us to 
move quickly.
  Mr. Speaker, 6 months have passed, 6 months since Columbine, and 
still this body has done nothing. While we have sat around like knots 
on a log, sat around while guns are taking the lives of our children 
all across this Nation.
  The Jackson-Lee motion to instruct simply instructs conferees to get 
to work, get to work immediately, get to work now, report the 
conference substitute by October 20, the 6-month anniversary of 
Columbine, and give both the House and the Senate time to consider gun 
safety before this session of Congress adjourns.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I 
may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I appreciate very much the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. 
Rush) pointing out that our task here is to save lives. I want to note 
that, interestingly enough, the Colt manufacturer has recognized that 
the gun has been an instrument that has been used to kill our children 
in its refusal to manufacture any more handguns.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield 2\1/2\ minutes to the gentlewoman from 
Connecticut (Ms. DeLauro), the assistant to the minority leader.
  Ms. DeLAURO. Mr. Speaker, nearly 6 months ago, a devastating shooting 
at Columbine High School claimed 15 lives. It opened the eyes across 
the country to the tragedies that occur when guns are allowed into 
children's hands. Nearly 6 months and numerous deaths since Columbine, 
the Republican leadership of this House still has taken no action to 
keep guns out of the hands of children and criminals.
  It should not take a Columbine or Jonesboro or a Los Angeles day care 
center shooting to get Congress to do the right thing, to enact common-
sense gun safety measures. Daily double digit death counts of children 
because of guns ought to be enough to spur us to act.
  Sadly, nearly 6 months since Columbine, nothing has been done. The 
Republican leadership that tried to water down and kill gun safety 
legislation at the bidding of the NRA earlier this year seems to be on 
the NRA payroll still.
  The House and Senate are supposed to be working toward a compromise 
on juvenile justice legislation, but only one meeting has been held in 
the past 2 months, and it was only a symbolic gathering.
  It is time for action. We need a strong bill that will keep firearms 
out of the hands of those who should not have them. At the very least, 
the final bill must include the Senate-passed gun safety measures and 
exclude the kind of poison pills that Republican leaders recently have 
used to try to block essential efforts such as campaign finance reform 
and a patients' bill of rights. Children's lives are much too important 
for such games.
  Just this week, families in Connecticut were given another chilling 
reminder of the need to keep children and guns apart. The Hartford 
Courant's headlines captures what has become all too familiar: ``Two 
Boys, A Gun, Another Nightmare.'' It reads, ``In the Montville case, 
State police said Austin Lamb, 7, and brother Alex Lamb, 9, were 
apparently playing with a long-barreled weapon, either a rifle or a 
shotgun, in their grandparents' bedroom when the gun went off Sunday 
morning. Austin died of a single gunshot wound to the head.''
  It is time for Congress to enact common-sense gun safety measures. 
Let us be responsive to the parents, to the families, to the children 
of this country. I applaud the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee) 
and her motion to instruct.
  Mr. PEASE. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from 
Michigan (Mr. Smith).
  Mr. SMITH of Michigan. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for 
yielding me this time.
  Mr. Speaker, I voted for this legislation when it was up for a House 
vote, and it failed to get the appropriate number of votes. I think it 
is a shame that there was a disagreement, maybe, on both sides with the 
suggestion that there be a 24-hour waiting period, a concern somewhat 
about whether 24 hours was legitimate.
  I called the FBI, and I said, well, what happens in the current 3-day 
waiting period when you find afterwards that some individual has lied 
on the application plus taken possession of the gun? They said, well, 
there were many of those, something like 5,000 last year that they 
found out after the 3-day waiting period that they committed, really, 
two felonies. They committed one felony on lying on the application and 
they committed another felony by taking possession of that gun when 
they were prior-convicted felons.
  I said, well, what happens then? They said, well, in all except a few 
cases, because they had committed a double felony, we went after them 
aggressively. We called the ATF. We called local law enforcement. We 
not only caught and started prosecuting most all of those individuals 
that we found out later had violated two laws, really, but we 
confiscated the weapons.
  So it seems to me that, in the question of 24 hours, if somehow we 
have that good of record in terms of ATF and FBI and local law 
enforcement going after these individuals now that have committed two 
felonies, that there is some advantage in coming to some kind of an 
agreement that is reasonable to help assure that we close this loophole 
at gun shows and simply do not let it go on for partisan reasons.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I 
may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, let me comment. I was trying to agree with the gentleman 
from Michigan (Mr. Smith), particularly if the gentleman is talking 
about we need to close gun show loopholes. I have to remind the 
gentleman that one of the problems with the initiatives we passed in 
the House was that it opened a gaping loophole which most law 
enforcement opposed.
  The limitation of 24 hours would not protect or provide opportunity 
for law enforcement to check gun shows that fall usually on Saturdays 
and Sundays. It does not give them the 3-day or 72 hours that was 
needed to close the loopholes that would allow the Mack truck, and I do 
not want to put anything on truckers, of criminals to drive through it, 
get their guns, and commit 10 felonies, not just two felonies.
  So I hope the gentleman from Michigan is, in fact, agreeing that we 
in the conference committee can get to this meeting and develop a 
compromise

[[Page H10081]]

that would truly close the loopholes that we are all facing that allows 
criminals to get guns in their hands and to commit felonies.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield 4 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from 
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan), who is a former prosecutor and joins me as 
a member of the conference committee on H.R. 1501, trying to pass real 
gun safety.
  Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. 
Jackson-Lee) for her motion to instruct conferees in this issue. I have 
to say it is unacceptable, unconscionable that we have had one meeting 
in the conference committee as violence continues, as accidents with 
guns continue all across this country, and Congress does nothing.
  The fact of the matter is, in America today, 13 young children a day 
die as a result of gun violence. As I go across my District in 
Massachusetts and talk to students, talk to high school students, talk 
to young people, they say, why is it that we can have so many problems 
with guns in America? Why is it that we could let 6 months go by from 
the tragedy in Columbine High and have the Congress of the United 
States respond by doing nothing?
  We had a meeting of the conference committee, one meeting, and there 
was a discussion, and everybody sort of dug in. We have made zero 
progress.
  The other body stood up and took a vote on gun safety measures that 
are reasonable, that make sense. The time has come to enact this 
legislation.
  How frustrating it is to go back to my home district in Massachusetts 
and talk to the law enforcement community or to talk to the people that 
have been involved with the gun safety program in Boston, 
Massachusetts, a national model, and try to explain to them why we 
cannot get anything done in the Congress of the United States to send 
reasonable gun safety measures over to the President for his signature.
  I cannot help but think, Mr. Speaker, about the enormous influence of 
these special interests, whether it is the NRA or the other groups that 
are trying to prevent the Congress from doing the right thing in this 
legislation, and just to look to see the enormous influence that they 
have in making contributions to the political system that is in 
desperate need of reform as that issue is debated in the other body. 
How fortunate we could be if we could take away the special interests 
and make decisions based on the merits.
  The time has come for this Congress to take action. How many kids 
need to die before this Congress steps up to the plate and passes real 
gun safety legislation? We should be ashamed of the fact that we have 
let 6 months go by with the American public crying for action, crying 
for reasonable gun safety measures, but here we are capitulating, 
procrastinating, delaying.
  I thank the gentlewoman from Texas for her motion, and I urge my 
colleagues to push the members of the conference committee to stop this 
delay and pass real meaningful gun safety legislation.
  All we have to do is look at the tragedies that happen across this 
country. How many more children need to die as a result of lack of 
reasonable gun safety measures before this Congress takes a stand? All 
my colleagues need to do is talk to the members of the school 
departments in their district, to talk to young people, to talk to law 
enforcement officials. The time has come for action, reasonable gun 
safety measures.
  So I urge the Congress to vote in favor of the Jackson-Lee motion to 
instruct conferees. I ask the Members of this body to move the 
conference committee ahead, and let us send this issue to the President 
within the next week or so. America is waiting for our action.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I 
may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the gentleman from Massachusetts 
(Mr. Meehan), we serve on the conference committee, but I also know in 
our work together in the Committee on the Judiciary, his work as a 
former prosecutor, there is some complaint or angst about the 
enforcement of laws. I do not think any of us have disagreed with the 
enforcement of laws.
  But maybe the gentleman can comment on the value of having laws on 
the books that will be tools by which various loopholes can be closed 
so that prosecutors, whether they are State prosecutors or Federal 
prosecutors, can, in fact, have the tools to be able to prosecute.
  The way the legislation is now postured out of the House as 
juxtaposed against the Senate, the conference is the only place where 
we can put together a good substitute to give those tools to close the 
loopholes where criminals every day are marching into gun shows 
randomly and recklessly taking guns and using them against innocent 
law-abiding citizens.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan) 
to talk about the tools.
  Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentlewoman from Texas on that. 
I guess the best evidence that I would present is the Boston gun safety 
tracing program that even the opponents of gun safety measures in the 
conference committee brought up the Boston program and said that is a 
model. Let us just enforce those laws that are on the books.

                              {time}  1430

  The reality is that there are States, and Massachusetts is one of 
them, that are taking the initiative to go beyond what the Federal has. 
They have not waited for the Congress to act. Because if they waited 
for the Congress to act, under the Massachusetts gun safety laws, we 
would not have been able to institute the gun safety measures in Boston 
where guns that are used in the commission of a crime are being traced 
and those tracing those guns have enabled them to pull in more arrests, 
to reduce violence in Boston, to reduce violence in any of the 
jurisdictions where they have undertaken these gun safety projects.
  But we need to provide the tools for law enforcement to take those 
models across the country where they have worked to learn from those 
areas of the country where we have all actually been able to reduce 
violence with guns and use those procedures and use those law 
enforcement techniques across the country.
  One of the things we want to see in this bill passed is the resources 
to implement the tools of those areas where they are working so 
effectively.
  I heard members of the conference committee on both sides of the 
aisle talking about the areas of the country where gun safety measures 
have worked with law enforcement working with the schools and working 
with prosecutors, working with the U.S. Attorney's Office and the FBI. 
And I would suggest that that effort in Boston, a national model where 
violence with handguns and violence with guns have dramatically been 
reduced as a result of it, that is all we need to look at. The fact is, 
Massachusetts has enacted gun safety legislation that Federal law 
enforcement officers have been able to use to make that program so 
effective.
  So I think that if we look at those national models, then it is clear 
to see that we have an enormous opportunity to reduce gun violence 
measures simply by giving law enforcement the tools that they need.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, let me 
also note and compliment the community of the gentleman from 
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan) for having at least 18 months to 2 years 
where they did not have the shooting of one single teenager, I believe, 
through this program, which means that his community had the tools, 
prosecutors had the tools, law enforcement had the tools in order to 
ensure that they save lives.
  It really strikes me as strange that those who argue, our Republican 
friends, let law enforcement enforce the laws would now have a 
stalemate where we cannot even get into the conference committee and 
discuss amendments such as the one that I am recommending where 
children have to be accompanied by adults going to gun shows, where we 
are closing that 24-hour loophole, and where we are recognizing that 
trigger locks are important, ammunition clips utilized by Buford Furrow 
on August 10, as we just mentioned, who ran into a Jewish community 
center and subsequently killed a postal worker with guns with an 
automatic clip.
  These are laws that we can in a consensus come to pass, hand over, if 
you will, those laws to the United States

[[Page H10082]]

attorneys and to local officials to begin to enforce these. And yet we 
would not do it.
  Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Speaker, will the gentlewoman yield?
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield to the gentleman from 
Massachusetts.
  Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Speaker, why in the world would anyone think it is a 
bad idea to have an adult with a young person that goes into a gun show 
to buy a gun? Why in the world would anybody think that it is okay for 
children in America to go into a gun show and get a gun without the 
requisite background checks? Why would anybody think that is okay?
  No one in this country thinks it is okay. Eighty-five percent of 
Americans say, why can we not do something about it? So I thank the 
gentlewoman for her comments, and the point that she brings up is just 
so valid. Who would ever think that was okay?
  Mr. PEASE. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2\1/4\ minutes to the 
distinguished gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Moran), a member of the 
Committee on Appropriations.
  Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Speaker, I thank the very distinguished 
gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee) for bringing this legislation 
up.
  Obviously, the purpose of this is to continue to keep the public 
focused on the urgency and importance of gun legislation. It is 
unfortunate we use the term ``gun control.'' This is simply common 
sense attempts to do what rational people would want done in the 
context of what has become a crisis situation in our schools and in our 
communities.
  But what this legislation that has been suggested does not do is 
terribly important to emphasize. It does not prevent anyone from using 
rifles. It does not make it illegal to own handguns. It does not 
confiscate or require the registration of handguns. It does only three 
relatively marginal things. It says if they are at gun shows, then they 
ought to have the same requirements as retail gun shop owners in 
selling handguns. That makes sense, have the same requirements.
  Why make it so much easier for people at a gun show? Why should we be 
importing large magazine clips? That does not make a lot of sense. They 
are not for the purpose of hunting. They are for the purpose of 
killing, and they are the weapons of choice for drug dealers. And then 
why not have child safety locks?
  We do not let children drive automobiles. We require them to know 
what they are doing. We ought to make it difficult for children to be 
able to have access to guns. It seems to me these are marginal things, 
and they are suggested in the light of a critical situation.
  Canada and other civilized countries have about a dozen deaths from 
firearms in a year. We have over 20,000. That is too many. Look at the 
differences. It is not that people hunt less in Canada. They hunt more. 
But they require people that have access to guns to be able to know how 
to use them. That is common sense.
  Mr. PEASE. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I advise my colleagues that we understand this is a 
difficult, complex, and emotional issue. It is not an issue without 
disagreement between members of both political parties within the 
parties and between the parties.
  Even today, conferees from our party are working to try and reach a 
resolution on these terribly complex issues. But they are faced with 
the fact that there is not consensus within the Democratic party, nor 
is there consensus within the Republican party, nor is there consensus 
within the House or the Nation within the specifics. Yet, they are 
committed to bringing a conference committee report to this House 
before the end of this session for our consideration. We should give 
them the time to do so.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I 
may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, this is a simple proposition to my colleagues. It is 
about keeping guns out of the hands of children and criminals. It is a 
vote to encourage the conference to meet.
  My good friend on the Committee on the Judiciary knows full well that 
the Democrats are not engaged in this debate, that they are not inside 
these negotiations. American people want action. That action, Mr. 
Speaker, is to vote for this motion to instruct, that we have a 
substitute before October 20 to keep guns out of the hands of children 
and guns out of the hands of adults, to stop the proliferation of guns 
in this Nation and the killing of 13 children by guns every single day.
  The American mothers, the American fathers, the American families 
want us to stand up and be counted against this kind of tragedy in 
America.
  For my friends in Texas, this is not a vote against the Second 
Amendment. This is a vote for the Constitution and for the Second 
Amendment. Gun safety must be passed in America.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Hansen). Without objection, the previous 
question is ordered on the motion.
  There was no objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the motion to instruct 
offered by the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee).
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the noes appeared to have it.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I object to the vote on the 
ground that a quorum is not present and make the point of order that a 
quorum is not present.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evidently a quorum is not present.
  The Sergeant at Arms will notify absent Members.
  The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--yeas 174, 
nays 249, not voting 10, as follows:

                             [Roll No. 502]

                               YEAS--174

     Abercrombie
     Ackerman
     Allen
     Andrews
     Baldacci
     Baldwin
     Barrett (WI)
     Becerra
     Bentsen
     Berkley
     Berman
     Bilbray
     Blagojevich
     Blumenauer
     Boehlert
     Bonior
     Borski
     Brady (PA)
     Brown (FL)
     Brown (OH)
     Campbell
     Capps
     Capuano
     Cardin
     Clay
     Clayton
     Clyburn
     Coyne
     Crowley
     Cummings
     Davis (FL)
     Davis (IL)
     Davis (VA)
     DeFazio
     DeGette
     Delahunt
     DeLauro
     Deutsch
     Dicks
     Dixon
     Doggett
     Dooley
     Doyle
     Dunn
     Edwards
     Engel
     Eshoo
     Evans
     Farr
     Fattah
     Filner
     Forbes
     Ford
     Frank (MA)
     Franks (NJ)
     Frelinghuysen
     Frost
     Gejdenson
     Gephardt
     Gonzalez
     Gutierrez
     Hastings (FL)
     Hinojosa
     Hoeffel
     Holt
     Hooley
     Horn
     Hoyer
     Inslee
     Jackson (IL)
     Jackson-Lee (TX)
     Johnson, E. B.
     Jones (OH)
     Kennedy
     Kildee
     Kilpatrick
     Kleczka
     Kucinich
     Kuykendall
     LaFalce
     Lantos
     Larson
     Lazio
     Leach
     Lee
     Levin
     Lewis (GA)
     Lipinski
     Lofgren
     Lowey
     Luther
     Maloney (CT)
     Maloney (NY)
     Markey
     Martinez
     Matsui
     McCarthy (MO)
     McCarthy (NY)
     McDermott
     McGovern
     McNulty
     Meehan
     Meek (FL)
     Meeks (NY)
     Menendez
     Millender-McDonald
     Miller, George
     Mink
     Moakley
     Moore
     Moran (VA)
     Morella
     Nadler
     Napolitano
     Neal
     Oberstar
     Obey
     Olver
     Owens
     Pallone
     Pascrell
     Pastor
     Payne
     Pelosi
     Pomeroy
     Porter
     Price (NC)
     Ramstad
     Rangel
     Reyes
     Rivers
     Rodriguez
     Rogan
     Rothman
     Roukema
     Roybal-Allard
     Rush
     Sabo
     Sanchez
     Sanders
     Sawyer
     Schakowsky
     Scott
     Serrano
     Shays
     Sherman
     Slaughter
     Smith (WA)
     Snyder
     Spratt
     Stabenow
     Stark
     Stupak
     Tancredo
     Tauscher
     Thompson (CA)
     Thompson (MS)
     Tierney
     Towns
     Udall (CO)
     Udall (NM)
     Upton
     Velazquez
     Vento
     Visclosky
     Waters
     Watt (NC)
     Waxman
     Weiner
     Wexler
     Weygand
     Woolsey
     Wu
     Wynn

                               NAYS--249

     Aderholt
     Archer
     Armey
     Bachus
     Baird
     Baker
     Ballenger
     Barcia
     Barr
     Barrett (NE)
     Bartlett
     Barton
     Bass
     Bateman
     Bereuter
     Berry
     Biggert
     Bilirakis
     Bishop
     Bliley
     Blunt
     Boehner
     Bonilla
     Bono
     Boswell
     Boucher
     Boyd
     Brady (TX)
     Bryant
     Burr
     Burton
     Callahan
     Calvert
     Camp
     Canady
     Cannon
     Castle
     Chabot
     Chambliss
     Chenoweth-Hage
     Clement
     Coble
     Coburn
     Collins
     Combest
     Condit
     Cook
     Cooksey
     Costello
     Cox
     Cramer
     Crane
     Cubin
     Cunningham
     Danner
     Deal
     DeLay
     DeMint
     Diaz-Balart
     Dickey
     Dingell
     Doolittle
     Dreier
     Duncan
     Ehlers
     Ehrlich
     Emerson
     English
     Etheridge
     Everett
     Ewing
     Fletcher
     Foley
     Fossella
     Fowler
     Gallegly
     Ganske
     Gekas

[[Page H10083]]


     Gibbons
     Gilchrest
     Gillmor
     Gilman
     Goode
     Goodlatte
     Goodling
     Gordon
     Goss
     Graham
     Granger
     Green (WI)
     Greenwood
     Gutknecht
     Hall (OH)
     Hall (TX)
     Hansen
     Hastings (WA)
     Hayes
     Hayworth
     Hefley
     Herger
     Hill (IN)
     Hill (MT)
     Hilleary
     Hilliard
     Hinchey
     Hobson
     Hoekstra
     Holden
     Hostettler
     Houghton
     Hulshof
     Hunter
     Hutchinson
     Hyde
     Isakson
     Istook
     Jenkins
     Johnson (CT)
     Johnson, Sam
     Jones (NC)
     Kanjorski
     Kaptur
     Kasich
     Kelly
     Kind (WI)
     King (NY)
     Klink
     Knollenberg
     Kolbe
     LaHood
     Lampson
     Largent
     Latham
     LaTourette
     Lewis (CA)
     Lewis (KY)
     Linder
     LoBiondo
     Lucas (KY)
     Lucas (OK)
     Manzullo
     Mascara
     McCollum
     McCrery
     McHugh
     McInnis
     McIntosh
     McIntyre
     McKeon
     Metcalf
     Mica
     Miller (FL)
     Miller, Gary
     Minge
     Mollohan
     Moran (KS)
     Murtha
     Myrick
     Nethercutt
     Ney
     Northup
     Norwood
     Nussle
     Ortiz
     Ose
     Oxley
     Packard
     Paul
     Pease
     Peterson (MN)
     Peterson (PA)
     Petri
     Phelps
     Pickering
     Pickett
     Pitts
     Pombo
     Portman
     Pryce (OH)
     Quinn
     Radanovich
     Rahall
     Regula
     Reynolds
     Riley
     Roemer
     Rogers
     Rohrabacher
     Ros-Lehtinen
     Royce
     Ryan (WI)
     Ryun (KS)
     Salmon
     Sandlin
     Sanford
     Saxton
     Schaffer
     Sensenbrenner
     Sessions
     Shadegg
     Shaw
     Sherwood
     Shimkus
     Shows
     Shuster
     Simpson
     Sisisky
     Skeen
     Skelton
     Smith (MI)
     Smith (NJ)
     Smith (TX)
     Souder
     Spence
     Stearns
     Stenholm
     Strickland
     Stump
     Sununu
     Sweeney
     Talent
     Tanner
     Tauzin
     Taylor (MS)
     Taylor (NC)
     Terry
     Thomas
     Thornberry
     Thune
     Thurman
     Tiahrt
     Toomey
     Traficant
     Turner
     Vitter
     Walden
     Walsh
     Wamp
     Watkins
     Watts (OK)
     Weldon (FL)
     Weldon (PA)
     Weller
     Whitfield
     Wicker
     Wilson
     Wise
     Wolf
     Young (FL)

                             NOT VOTING--10

     Buyer
     Carson
     Conyers
     Green (TX)
     Jefferson
     John
     Kingston
     McKinney
     Scarborough
     Young (AK)

                              {time}  1501

  Messrs. PETRI, GREENWOOD, THOMAS, PICKERING, GANSKE, SMITH of Texas, 
NUSSLE and HILLIARD changed their vote from ``yea'' to ``nay.''
  Messrs. LAZIO, JACKSON of Illinois, FRELINGHUYSEN and VISCLOSKY 
changed their vote from ``nay'' to ``yea.''
  So the motion to instruct was rejected.
  The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
  A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.

                          ____________________