[Congressional Record Volume 145, Number 86 (Thursday, June 17, 1999)]
[House]
[Pages H4603-H4608]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                              {time}  0050

  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Woolsey).
  (Ms. WOOLSEY asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Ms. WOOLSEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the McCarthy 
amendment to protect our children and to plug the gun show loophole.
  Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong support of the McCarthy-Roukema-
Blagojevich Amendment.
  I am outraged that the Republican leadership has the nerve to offer 
the NRA's water-downed version of the Senate gun safety legislation.
  We should not have to wait until there is blood on our hands to pass 
real legislation to make it harder for kids to get guns.
  Our children should be worrying about hitting their books--not about 
getting hit by a bullet.
  Our children should know that ``Gunsmoke'' is an old TV rerun, and 
not a reality for many of them.
  and our children should be safe in their school, their neighborhoods 
and homes.
  Increased gun safety measures could save the lives of thousands of 
young people every year, and I believe that regardless of political 
agendas, we have to put our children first. Unfortunately, the 
Republican gun control or the Dingle legislation will not close the 
gaping loopholes in our gun laws and will not make our children any 
safer.
  We have heard all the statistics. We know that the American people 
overwhelmingly support these reforms. We know how many people have died 
from gun violence in this country. However, sometimes I think that 
opponents of gun safety are no longer affected by these statistics, 
because they have heard them over and over again--but Mr. Speaker, this 
is not about statistics.
  This is about lives--the lives of the people who were killed because 
there were no safety locks or background checks, and the lives of all 
the people who are going to be killed if we don't pass real gun safety 
laws.
  Mr. Speaker, I am especially outraged at the tactics being used to 
try and derail enactment of sensible gun safety and gun control 
measures.
  That is because I resent bullies--I always have and I always will!
  And I think that the NRA leaders are the bully's of all bullys!
  Today, I find myself fighting once again their threats against 
members of this body who support sensible gun control and plugging the 
gun show loophole.
  Years ago, as a member of the Petaluma, CA city council I was 
threatened by these same individuals who promised to post my name in 
their place of business if I voted for local gun control.
  Well, let me tell you I let them know I would be proud to be on their 
list, so I told them how to spell my name W-O-O-L-S-E-Y.
  Today, I am proud to stand for the McCarthy gun legislation to keep 
our children safe. Any bully who wants to hold that against me needs to 
spell my name right. W-O-O-L-S-E-Y!
  Mr. Chairman I ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks 
in support of the McCarthy amendment to plug gun show loopholes and 
protect our children!
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Eddie Bernice Johnson).
  (Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas asked and was given permission to 
revise and extend her remarks.)
  Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support 
of the McCarthy amendment on behalf of all of the mothers and 
grandmothers of this Nation.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from California (Mrs. Napolitano).
  (Mrs. NAPOLITANO asked and was given permission to revise and extend 
her remarks.)
  Mrs. NAPOLITANO. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the McCarthy-
Roukema amendment to plug gun show sales.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may

[[Page H4604]]

consume to the gentlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. Jones).
  (Mrs. JONES of Ohio asked and was given permission to revise and 
extend her remarks.)
  Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, on behalf of all of us here in this 
House, I rise in support of the McCarthy-Roukema amendment, and the 
Conyers-Campbell amendment to take the guns out of the hands of 
criminals.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Roybal-Allard).
  (Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD asked and was given permission to revise and 
extend her remarks.)
  Ms ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of our children's 
safety and in support of the McCarthy-Roukema amendment.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from Florida (Mrs. Meek).
  (Mrs. MEEK of Florida asked and was given permission to revise and 
extend her remarks.)
  Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the McCarthy 
amendment.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Eshoo).
  (Ms. ESHOO asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Ms. ESHOO. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the McCarthy-Roukema 
amendment, with thanks to these two gentlewomen for the children of 
America.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from California (Mrs. Capps).
  (Mrs. CAPPS asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Mrs. CAPPS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong support for this gun 
safety amendment on behalf of our children and in recognition of the 
excellent leadership of our colleagues, the gentlewoman from New Jersey 
(Mrs. Roukema) and the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. McCarthy).


                         Parliamentary Inquiry

  Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman, parliamentary inquiry.
  The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman may state his parliamentary inquiry.
  Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman, is chivalry dead in this House?
  The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is not stating a proper parliamentary 
inquiry.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from Nevada (Ms. Berkley).
  (Ms. BERKLEY asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Ms. BERKLEY. Mr. Chairman. I rise in support of the McCarthy 
amendment to preserve the Second Amendment.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from California (Mrs. Tauscher).
  (Mrs. TAUSCHER asked and was given permission to revise and extend 
her remarks.)
  Mrs. TAUSCHER. Mr. Chairman, I rise in favor of the McCarthy 
amendment.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from Michigan (Ms. Stabenow).
  (Ms. STABENOW asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Ms. STABENOW. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of this very important 
gun safety legislation for America.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Waters).
  (Ms. WATERS asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the McCarthy-Roukema 
amendment on behalf of all of the children who have died, on behalf of 
all of the children who have died in gang warfare and drive-by 
shootings.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from Ohio (Ms. Kaptur).
  (Ms. KAPTUR asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Ms. KAPTUR. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the amendment by the 
valiant gentlewomen from New York (Mrs. McCarthy) and New Jersey (Mrs. 
Roukema) and in favor of strong background checks on criminals across 
this country.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. Maloney).
  (Mrs. MALONEY of New York asked and was given permission to revise 
and extend her remarks.)
  Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the 
McCarthy amendment and America's children and victims of gun violence.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from Florida (Ms. Brown).
  (Ms. BROWN of Florida asked and was given permission to revise and 
extend her remarks.)
  Ms. BROWN of Florida. Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the 97 percent of 
the women with children, I rise in support of the McCarthy amendment.
  I rise in support of the McCarthy amendment.
  Mr. Chairman, I rise in solid opposition to the Dingell amendment. 
While supporters of this amendment claim to close the gun show loophole 
by requiring background checks, this amendment reduces to just 24 hours 
the amount of time that law enforcement officers have to conduct 
background checks at gun shows.
  This amendment is misguided, misleading even! In fact, this is an 
example of the lack of seriousness in this Congress in trying to keep 
guns out of the hands of criminals. You know, you can fool some of the 
people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time, and 
let me say that the American people are not fooled by the rhetoric of 
this group! The dilution of the Senate bill is appalling! If the 
Congress is really serious about keeping guns out of the hands of 
criminals, this amendment will be defeated, and the gun-show loopholes 
closed!
  I firmly believe that in order to deter youth violence it is 
necessary to focus on prevention and not exclusively on punishment; 
indeed, merely locking up kids with adults is not a legitimate solution 
to the problem of youth violence. Children's groups across the nation 
have called on Congress to concentrate on the prevention of juvenile 
crime: not only punitive measures.
  In my home district, Florida's 3rd, on Friday, June 4th at Raines 
Senior High School, I did just this, and held an in-school meeting to 
discuss different models of youth violence prevention and mediation. 
The participants consisted of six Members of Congress, a NASA 
astronaut, the rap star Snake, 1600 students, and an organization named 
SHINE (Seeking Harmony In Neighborhoods Everday).
  Our discussions centered on prevention, such as positive ways to 
confront low self-esteem, and a search for non-violent responses to 
conflict. I believe that it is only possible to permanently end youth 
violence by teaching our children radically new ways of thinking, which 
would allow them to direct their energy, presently released through 
violent means, into positive outlets like music, art and technology, in 
after school programs.
  Along these lines, I suggest that teachers nationwide should include 
conflict resolution, mediation, and anger management lessons in their 
yearly course of study, and that these lessons be introduced in all 
grade levels to positively influence children throughout their school 
career.
  Undoubtedly, the causes of youth violence are extremely complicated 
and our nation is in need of broad based solutions. An increase in 
child counseling, the instituting of sufficient mental health 
resources, and a general questioning of the role of the media in 
influencing children's attitudes toward guns and violence are all in 
order. Certainly, as Members of Congress, we should not overlook our 
role as parents and federal legislators, and do absolutely everything 
possible to put an end to the horrific, widespread problem of youth 
violence, with an eye towards prevention, and not just punishment.
  Mr. Chairman, we've got to prioritize prevention over prisons. In the 
last two days I have heard proposals for locking up our children. How 
will this stop the violence? Simply, it won't.
  We've got to enhance our families, our community centers, our 
churches and our classrooms. Building more prisons is not the answer. 
We've got to rebuild our communities--that is the only way we can move 
forward as a country. The Democratic Alternatives offer hope for the 
future, which is a lot more than the Republican alternatives of steel 
bars and cell blocks.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may

[[Page H4605]]

consume to the gentlewoman from Michigan (Ms. Rivers).
  (Ms. RIVERS asked and was given permission to revise and extend her 
remarks.)
  Ms. RIVERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in favor of the McCarthy amendment.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from New York (Ms. Velazquez).
  (Ms. VELAZQUEZ asked and was given permission to revise and extend 
her remarks.)
  Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I rise on behalf of all the American 
children and in support of the McCarthy-Roukema amendment.
  The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. McCarthy) is 
recognized for 2 minutes.
  Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I thank all of my colleagues 
for their support. This is very hard for me tonight. It is hard for me 
because I have heard so many different things. I have been here just 
about 3 years and I am used to all the different spins. I do not 
understand them all the time, but that is what I do.
  What we were supposed to be doing tonight was trying to serve the 
American people. What we are doing tonight is saying and listening to 
the victims across this country. That is all we are trying to do. That 
is the only reason I came to Congress.
  Someday I would like to hopefully not have to meet a victim and say I 
know, because it is really hard. We have heard the arguments on both 
sides, and I wish we had more time to really say the truth about 
everything. My amendment closes the loophole. That is all I am trying 
to do.
  I am trying to stop the criminals from being able to get guns. That 
is all I am trying to do. This is not a game to me. This is not a game 
to the American people.

                              {time}  0100

  All of my colleagues have to vote their conscience, and I know that. 
But I have to tell my colleagues, mothers, fathers, who have lost their 
children, wives that have lost their loved ones, this is important to 
them.
  We have an opportunity here in Washington to stop playing games. That 
is what I came to Washington for. I am sorry that this is very hard for 
me. I am Irish, and I am not supposed to cry in front of anyone. But I 
made a promise a long time ago. I made a promise to my son and to my 
husband. If there was anything that I could do to prevent one family 
from going through what I have gone through and every other victim that 
I know have gone through, then I have done my job. Let me go home. Let 
me go home.
  I love working with all of you people. I think all of my colleagues 
are great. But sometimes we lose sight of why we are all here. I am 
trying to remind my colleagues of that.
  Three business days, an inconvenience to some people. It is not 
infringing on constitutional rights. It is not taking away anyone's 
right to own a gun. I do not think that is difficult for us to do. If 
we do not do it, shame on us, because I have to tell my colleagues, the 
American people will remember.
  Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Chairman, all of us who are here tonight are here with poignance 
and concern and feel for the sincerity of the speech we just heard. I 
have three sons, my wife and I do, and I can only imagine the pain that 
those such as the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. McCarthy) who have 
lost their children to violence must feel. That is why we are all here.
  Fundamentally, one would think we had some huge disagreement tonight. 
Yet, in reality, I do not think there is a Member of this body who 
disagrees with the fundamental purpose that we are here tonight to do, 
and that is to try our darnedest to close the loophole in every way we 
possibly can in the existing laws that might allow some convicted felon 
to get ahold of a gun who could go out there and use that gun to kill 
one of our kids or grandkids.
  That is what every one of us believes in who is here tonight. We may 
disagree over the product, over the nature or the style of it, but that 
is what we are here about, every one of the provisions. Each of us 
believes that his or her version is better for one reason or another. 
That is what we are here, all of us, are about.
  Unfortunately, I think the amendment of the gentlewoman from New York 
(Mrs. McCarthy) goes too far. It is overly broad. It would turn 
gatherings of friends into gun shows. I do not think that is what she 
intends, but that is what I believe it would do.
  It would turn neighborhood yard sales into gun shows, and I do not 
think that is what she intends, but I believe that is what it would do.
  It would force gun promoters to really go out of business, I believe, 
because I do not think that they could comply with the kind of 
restrictions placed on them without becoming criminally liable. 
Therefore, I believe they would not continue to conduct gun shows.
  So I want to close the loophole just as much as anyone else here does 
tonight. I have offered a bill that would do that, and an amendment has 
already been passed that I did not agree with that would modify that 
slightly, but the authors of that amendment want to close that 
loophole.
  But I cannot agree with the amendment of the gentlewoman from New 
York (Mrs. McCarthy) tonight because I believe the McCarthy amendment 
would do more than close the loophole. It would close down gun shows. I 
believe it. So I urge a no vote on it. But I am with the gentlewoman, I 
am with everybody here to help our kids, and stop the killing that is 
going on in America, and close this loophole.
  So, regretfully, I urge a no vote on the McCarthy amendment.
  Mr. HOLT. Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong support of the McCarthy/
Roukema/Blagojevich amendment, which matches the common sense gun 
control language sponsored in the Senate by my New Jersey colleague 
Senator Frank Lautenberg.
  Mr. Speaker, this debate is very simple. It's about keeping dangerous 
guns out of the hands of criminals and juveniles. And our choice 
tonight is equally clear: We can side with the NRA and the special 
interests, or we can vote to protect our children and our communities.
  The recent tragedy at Columbine High School is a reminder that we 
must take strong action to keep firearms out of the hands of our 
children and criminals. All four guns used in that shooting were 
purchased at a gun show, making passage of the McCarthy Amendment more 
important than ever.
  The McCarthy amendment would bring common sense reforms to the 
nation's 5,200 annual gun shows by simply imposing the same 
requirements on gun shows as are currently required at gun shops and 
sporting goods stores.
  Hunters, sportsmen and law abiding gun owners have nothing to fear 
from this common sense measures. Criminals and gun traffickers do.
  The McCarthy Amendment would ensure that thorough background checks 
are performed on every firearms purchaser by professional, licensed gun 
dealers so that juveniles and criminals can't acquire firearms at these 
events.
  It would also require that sales records be maintained in the same 
way that they are at a gun store to help police trace weapons used in 
crimes. And it would give police the tools they need to enforce 
existing gun laws.
  Mr. Speaker: Central New Jersey families are tired of a system so 
riddled with loopholes that it allows convicted felons, gang members 
and the seriously mentally ill to buy unlimited amount of weapons with 
no limits, no checks and no questions asked. We need to close the 
gunshow loophole.
  Support the McCarthy Amendment.
  Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the 
gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. McCarthy).
  The question was taken; and the Chairman announced that the noes 
appeared to have it.


                             Recorded Vote

  Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.
  A recorded vote was ordered.
  The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--ayes 193, 
noes 235, not voting 6, as follows:

                             [Roll No. 235]

                               AYES--193

     Abercrombie
     Ackerman
     Allen
     Andrews
     Baldacci
     Baldwin
     Barrett (WI)
     Bateman
     Becerra
     Bentsen
     Bereuter
     Berkley
     Berman
     Berry
     Bilbray
     Blagojevich
     Blumenauer
     Boehlert
     Bonior
     Borski
     Brady (PA)
     Brown (FL)
     Brown (OH)
     Campbell
     Capps
     Capuano
     Cardin
     Castle
     Clay
     Clayton

[[Page H4606]]


     Clyburn
     Condit
     Conyers
     Coyne
     Crowley
     Cummings
     Davis (FL)
     Davis (IL)
     Davis (VA)
     DeFazio
     DeGette
     Delahunt
     DeLauro
     Deutsch
     Diaz-Balart
     Dicks
     Dixon
     Doggett
     Dooley
     Doyle
     Edwards
     Engel
     Eshoo
     Evans
     Farr
     Fattah
     Filner
     Forbes
     Ford
     Frank (MA)
     Franks (NJ)
     Frelinghuysen
     Frost
     Ganske
     Gejdenson
     Gephardt
     Gilchrest
     Gonzalez
     Goodling
     Greenwood
     Gutierrez
     Hall (OH)
     Hastings (FL)
     Hinchey
     Hinojosa
     Hoeffel
     Holt
     Hooley
     Horn
     Hoyer
     Inslee
     Jackson (IL)
     Jackson-Lee (TX)
     Jefferson
     Johnson (CT)
     Johnson, E. B.
     Jones (OH)
     Kaptur
     Kennedy
     Kildee
     Kilpatrick
     King (NY)
     Kleczka
     Klink
     Kucinich
     Kuykendall
     LaFalce
     Lantos
     Larson
     Lazio
     Leach
     Lee
     Levin
     Lewis (GA)
     Lipinski
     Lofgren
     Lowey
     Luther
     Maloney (CT)
     Maloney (NY)
     Markey
     Martinez
     Matsui
     McCarthy (MO)
     McCarthy (NY)
     McDermott
     McGovern
     McKinney
     McNulty
     Meehan
     Meek (FL)
     Meeks (NY)
     Menendez
     Millender-McDonald
     Miller, George
     Mink
     Moakley
     Moore
     Moran (VA)
     Morella
     Nadler
     Napolitano
     Neal
     Olver
     Ose
     Owens
     Pallone
     Pascrell
     Pastor
     Payne
     Pelosi
     Pomeroy
     Porter
     Price (NC)
     Quinn
     Ramstad
     Rangel
     Reyes
     Rivers
     Rodriguez
     Rogan
     Ros-Lehtinen
     Rothman
     Roukema
     Roybal-Allard
     Rush
     Sabo
     Sanchez
     Sanders
     Sawyer
     Schakowsky
     Scott
     Serrano
     Shaw
     Shays
     Sherman
     Slaughter
     Smith (NJ)
     Snyder
     Spratt
     Stabenow
     Stark
     Stupak
     Tauscher
     Thompson (CA)
     Thompson (MS)
     Tierney
     Towns
     Udall (CO)
     Udall (NM)
     Upton
     Velazquez
     Vento
     Visclosky
     Waters
     Watt (NC)
     Waxman
     Weiner
     Wexler
     Weygand
     Woolsey
     Wu
     Wynn

                               NOES--235

     Aderholt
     Archer
     Armey
     Bachus
     Baird
     Baker
     Ballenger
     Barcia
     Barr
     Barrett (NE)
     Bartlett
     Barton
     Bass
     Biggert
     Bilirakis
     Bishop
     Bliley
     Blunt
     Boehner
     Bonilla
     Bono
     Boswell
     Boucher
     Boyd
     Brady (TX)
     Bryant
     Burr
     Burton
     Buyer
     Callahan
     Calvert
     Camp
     Canady
     Cannon
     Chabot
     Chambliss
     Chenoweth
     Clement
     Coble
     Coburn
     Collins
     Combest
     Cook
     Cooksey
     Costello
     Cox
     Cramer
     Crane
     Cubin
     Cunningham
     Danner
     Deal
     DeLay
     DeMint
     Dickey
     Dingell
     Doolittle
     Dreier
     Duncan
     Dunn
     Ehlers
     Ehrlich
     Emerson
     English
     Etheridge
     Everett
     Ewing
     Fletcher
     Foley
     Fossella
     Fowler
     Gallegly
     Gekas
     Gibbons
     Gillmor
     Gilman
     Goode
     Goodlatte
     Gordon
     Goss
     Graham
     Granger
     Green (TX)
     Green (WI)
     Gutknecht
     Hall (TX)
     Hansen
     Hastings (WA)
     Hayes
     Hayworth
     Hefley
     Herger
     Hill (IN)
     Hill (MT)
     Hilleary
     Hilliard
     Hobson
     Hoekstra
     Holden
     Hostettler
     Hulshof
     Hunter
     Hutchinson
     Hyde
     Isakson
     Istook
     Jenkins
     John
     Johnson, Sam
     Jones (NC)
     Kanjorski
     Kasich
     Kelly
     Kind (WI)
     Kingston
     Knollenberg
     Kolbe
     LaHood
     Lampson
     Largent
     Latham
     LaTourette
     Lewis (CA)
     Lewis (KY)
     Linder
     LoBiondo
     Lucas (KY)
     Lucas (OK)
     Manzullo
     Mascara
     McCollum
     McCrery
     McHugh
     McInnis
     McIntosh
     McIntyre
     McKeon
     Metcalf
     Mica
     Miller (FL)
     Miller, Gary
     Mollohan
     Moran (KS)
     Murtha
     Myrick
     Nethercutt
     Ney
     Northup
     Norwood
     Nussle
     Oberstar
     Obey
     Ortiz
     Oxley
     Packard
     Paul
     Pease
     Peterson (MN)
     Peterson (PA)
     Petri
     Phelps
     Pickering
     Pickett
     Pitts
     Pombo
     Portman
     Pryce (OH)
     Radanovich
     Rahall
     Regula
     Reynolds
     Riley
     Roemer
     Rogers
     Rohrabacher
     Royce
     Ryan (WI)
     Ryun (KS)
     Sandlin
     Sanford
     Saxton
     Scarborough
     Schaffer
     Sensenbrenner
     Sessions
     Shadegg
     Sherwood
     Shimkus
     Shows
     Shuster
     Simpson
     Sisisky
     Skeen
     Skelton
     Smith (MI)
     Smith (TX)
     Smith (WA)
     Souder
     Spence
     Stearns
     Stenholm
     Strickland
     Stump
     Sununu
     Sweeney
     Talent
     Tancredo
     Tanner
     Tauzin
     Taylor (MS)
     Taylor (NC)
     Terry
     Thornberry
     Thune
     Thurman
     Tiahrt
     Toomey
     Traficant
     Turner
     Vitter
     Walden
     Walsh
     Wamp
     Watkins
     Watts (OK)
     Weldon (FL)
     Weldon (PA)
     Weller
     Whitfield
     Wicker
     Wilson
     Wise
     Wolf
     Young (AK)
     Young (FL)

                             NOT VOTING--6

     Brown (CA)
     Carson
     Houghton
     Minge
     Salmon
     Thomas

                              {time}  0123

  So the amendment was rejected.
  The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
  Stated for:
  Mr. MINGE. Mr. Chairman, on rollcall No. 235, had I been present, I 
would have voted ``yes.''
  The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to consider Amendment No. 3 printed 
in Part B of House Report 106-186.


                  Amendment No. 3 Offered by Mr. Hyde

  Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
  The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
  The text of the amendment is as follows:

       Part B Amendment No. 3 offered by Mr. Hyde:
       At the end of the bill, insert the following:

                      TITLE ____--ASSAULT WEAPONS

     SEC. ____1. SHORT TITLE.

       This title may be cited as the ``Juvenile Assault Weapon 
     Loophole Closure Act of 1999''.

     SEC. ____2. BAN ON IMPORTING LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION 
                   FEEDING DEVICES.

       Section 922(w) of title 18, United States Code, is 
     amended--
       (1) in paragraph (1), by striking ``(1) Except as provided 
     in paragraph (2)'' and inserting ``(1)(A) Except as provided 
     in subparagraph (B)'';
       (2) in paragraph (2), by striking ``(2) Paragraph (1)'' and 
     inserting ``(B) Subparagraph (A)'';
       (3) by inserting before paragraph (3) the following new 
     paragraph (2):
       ``(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import a large 
     capacity ammunition feeding device.''; and
       (4) in paragraph (4)--
       (A) by striking ``(1)'' each place it appears and inserting 
     ``(1)(A)''; and
       (B) by striking ``(2)'' and inserting ``(1)(B)''.

     SEC. ____3. DEFINITION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING 
                   DEVICE.

       Section 921(a)(31) of title 18, United States Code, is 
     amended by striking ``manufactured after the date of 
     enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement 
     Act of 1994''.

  The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Resolution 209, the gentleman from 
Illinois (Mr. Hyde) and a Member opposed each will control 15 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Hyde).
  (Mr. HYDE asked and was given permission to revise and extend his 
remarks.)
  Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  My amendment, Mr. Chairman, would prohibit the importation of large 
capacity ammunition feeding devices.
  I am very pleased that the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Lofgren) 
the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan) and the gentlewoman from 
Colorado (Ms. DeGette) have agreed to cosponsor my amendment.
  A large capacity ammunition feeding device is defined in current law, 
that is 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(31), as a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or 
similar device manufactured after September 13, 1994, that has a 
capacity of or can readily be restored or converted to accept more than 
10 rounds of ammunition.
  We have all seen them before. They are deadly enhancements to any 
semiautomatic firearm because they permit the shooter to fire many 
rounds before reloading.
  Current law prohibits the transfer or possession of large capacity 
ammunition feeding devices, such as clips and other types of magazines. 
But current law also provides a major exception. It permits the 
possession and transfer of any such device lawfully possessed on or 
before the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law 
Enforcement Act of 1994. That is September 13, 1994.
  The world is awash in high-capacity ammo clips manufactured before 
the effective date of the 1994 Act, and such devices have been approved 
for importation into the United States if importers submit evidence 
establishing that the devices were manufactured on or before September 
13, 1994.
  Our proposal would amend the definition of a ``large capacity 
ammunition feeding device'' to delete the language limiting the 
definition to devices manufactured after September 13, 1994. In 
addition, our amendment would add a provision making it unlawful for 
any person to import a large capacity ammunition feeding device.
  Thus, all devices with the capacity of more than 10 rounds of 
ammunition would be subject to the restriction of the law. However, the 
proposal would retain the existing grandfather exception in the law for 
devices lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of the 
1994 Act.
  My guess is there are plenty of large capacity clips in this country 
today and they are legal and will remain

[[Page H4607]]

legal to possess and transfer. However, if over a period of time these 
large capacity clips break or wear out, gun owners can simply replace 
them with smaller capacity clips. It will never be necessary to throw a 
gun away for lack of a clip that will work in the gun.
  We no longer live in a society where mass murder of the kind 
committed at Columbine High School is unthinkable. Unfortunately, the 
increasing frequency of mass shootings with weapons that can only be 
described as high-tech killing machines compels us to act now for the 
public good.
  I urge support for this amendment.
  Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. DeGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to manage the time 
in opposition to this amendment.
  The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the gentlewoman 
from Colorado?
  There was no objection.
  The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman from Colorado (Ms. DeGette) will 
control 15 minutes.
  Ms. DeGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. 
Hyde) the chairman of the Committee on the Judiciary for offering this 
amendment, which is a bill that Senator Feinstein and I have introduced 
in both the House and the Senate and have been working on since 1997.
  My colleagues, this legislation bans the importation of high capacity 
magazine clips.
  I would also like to thank my colleague from California and my 
colleague from Massachusetts for working so hard on this amendment with 
us.

                              {time}  0130

  In 1997, a decorated Denver police officer, Bruce Vander Jagt, was 
shot with a legally obtainable Chinese SKS assault rifle equipped with 
a 30-round magazine cartridge. Officer Vander Jagt was shot 15 times in 
the head, neck and torso by the rapid-fire capabilities of the 
assailant's weapon, combined with the multiple round cartridges. 
Numerous other police officers and citizens have been killed across the 
country because of the availability of these lawfully available, legal 
ammunition magazines. We cannot be sure whether Officer Vander Jagt 
would have survived if his assailant had had fewer rounds to fire, but 
what we can be sure of is that with a 30-round cartridge, death is 
almost surely going to happen and the only purpose of these cartridges 
is to kill human beings.
  Although assault weapons account for about 1 percent of the guns in 
private hands, they were used in at least 13.1 percent of the 122 fatal 
law enforcement shootings that took place during a 21-month period in 
1994 and 1995. Of those deaths, almost 20 involved high capacity 
magazines. The same type of high capacity magazines were used in 
Jonesboro, Arkansas and tragically they were used in Littleton, 
Colorado, just a few blocks from my district.
  In 1994, Congress thought that it was banning the production of these 
large capacity assault style magazines or clips that allow these kind 
of shots. Unfortunately, the 1994 ban allowed the importation of these 
magazines to continue. That is why, 5 years later, even though we 
cannot make new cartridges, we still have a free flow of cartridges 
coming into this country from China, Russia and other Eastern European 
countries.
  Next to me here, you see a recent advertisement from this country for 
magazines manufactured in Germany. Clearly, although Congress intended 
for these magazines to be gone from the marketplace by now, we continue 
to see them sold perfectly legally in gun shops across the country.
  The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms estimates that tens of 
millions of high capacity magazines have been approved for importation 
since 1994. Between March and July 1998, over 8 million of these 
magazines, some of them which hold 250 rounds of ammunition in one 
magazine, were approved for import. We must close this loophole.
  There is no full explanation that will calm our consciences about why 
the two boys went on a killing spree in Colorado. And there is no 
guarantee by this amendment that something like this will never happen 
again. But these shooters in Colorado had multiple round ammunition 
cartridges. The security guard on detail at Columbine High School that 
day did not even have a chance against these two shooters, armed with 
semiassault weapons and multiple round cartridges.
  Stopping this kind of ammunition, which only serves to kill human 
beings, is only a very small part of the solution. But it is an 
important part. We also need parents, teachers, coaches, ministers and 
Members of Congress to work with their communities to restore the 
social fabric that has held us together. But a common sense extension 
of a ban we thought we passed a few years ago is one way that we can 
give security to our schools, that we can give security to our parents 
and that we can give security to the police officers and their families 
all across this country.
  Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to yield such time as she may consume to 
the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Lofgren).
  Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, I am happy to be here this evening while 
it is only 10:30 in California and to say that assault weapons equipped 
with high capacity clips containing multiple rounds of ammunition make 
it possible to shoot shot after shot in rapid succession to kill 
children in seconds. High capacity clips in Littleton, Colorado 
permitted two boys to mow down 13 classmates and their teacher.
  In 1994, Congress addressed high capacity clips. I was not a Member 
of Congress then but the cosponsor of this amendment, the gentleman 
from Illinois (Mr. Hyde), was. He supported the 1994 ban on assault 
weapons and high capacity ammunition clips. If I had been here, I would 
have, too. While that had good effect here at home, high capacity 
ammunition clips continued to be imported from other countries. That is 
because of a loophole in the 1994 act. This amendment makes sure that 
the law will now succeed in doing what Congress intended to do in 1994.
  From March to August of last year, more than 8 million large capacity 
clips were imported into the United States, each clip having a capacity 
of more than 10 rounds of ammunition, many with the capacity of 35 
rounds, 75 rounds, 90 rounds, as high as 250 rounds. Why should 
Americans abide by a restricted law that foreign manufacturers may 
disregard? The clips that were imported over this 6-month period could 
have accommodated some 128 million rounds of ammunition. That is about 
a round of ammunition for every other American. That is a rather large 
loophole.
  I ask each and every Member in this Chamber to look to the intent of 
the original ban in 1994 and the adverse impact this loophole had in 
Littleton and to the will of the American people. Then I ask that we 
cast our votes in support of this sensible amendment.
  Ms. DeGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to yield such time as she may 
consume to the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee).
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentlewoman from 
Colorado for her leadership, I thank the leadership of the gentleman 
from Illinois (Mr. Hyde) on this amendment along with the gentlewoman 
from California (Ms. Lofgren) and the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. 
Meehan) and certainly to comment on the fact that this is an existing 
legislation of the gentlewoman from Colorado (Ms. DeGette) and Senator 
Feinstein. We now have an opportunity this evening to be able to 
prohibit the importation of all feeding devices with a capacity of more 
than 10 rounds of ammunition.
  Existing law prohibits the transfer and possession of large capacity 
ammunition feeding devices. Current law excepts any such device 
lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of the 1994 crime 
bill which was September 13, 1994. Devices manufactured after that date 
must be approved for import.
  This provision amends the definition of large capacity ammunition 
feeding device to delete the limitation to devices manufactured after 
September 13, 1994. All devices with a capacity of more than 10 rounds 
will be subject to the restrictions of the law. The proposal would 
retain, however, the existing grandfather exception in the law for 
devices lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment.
  It is clearly a striking phenomenon to me that anyone would argue the

[[Page H4608]]

case that they would need multiple round ammunition. In Springfield, 
Oregon on May 21, 1998, Kip Kinkel, 15, walked into Thurston High 
School with a 30-round clip. He killed two students and wounded 22 
others before he had to stop and reload. It was only then that another 
student overtook him and stopped the shooting.
  Mr. Chairman, it is interesting that there would be those who would 
argue that there is no need for this legislation inasmuch as who would 
be able to get such a clip and who would be able to use it violently 
and would they be a child under the age of 21 or 18?
  On April 20, 1999 as we have so noted, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan 
Klebold, 17, entered Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, 
armed with two shotguns, a rifle, and a TEC DC-9 assault pistol. They 
killed 15 people and wounded 22. After the massacre, Mark Manns, 22, 
turned himself in for illegally selling the TEC DC-9, a multiple round 
ammunition.
  In September 1994, police pulled over a car in central Michigan and 
found three men inside wearing face paint and dressed in military 
fatigues. In the car's trunk, the police found an M-1 Garand and a MAC 
90 assault weapon and an M-14 semiautomatic assault rifle. The men who 
were members of the Michigan Militia were arrested for possession of a 
loaded weapon in a car but nothing else could be done.
  In January 1999, a 19-year-old man used an AK-47 assault rifle to 
kill an Oakland, California police officer. AK-47s are made in Eastern 
Europe, Russia and China. Henry K. Lee arrested in Oakland sniper 
slaying.
  In 1996 two bank robbers armed with assault weapons and ammunition 
magazines holding 100 rounds each wounded 10 officers and two 
civilians.

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