[Congressional Record Volume 145, Number 73 (Wednesday, May 19, 1999)]
[House]
[Pages H3382-H3389]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




    A DISCUSSION ON MURDER SIMULATION AND ON THE SITUATION IN KOSOVO

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of 
January 6, 1999, the gentleman from Colorado (Mr. McInnis) is 
recognized for 60 minutes.
  Mr. McINNIS. Mr. Speaker, I want to visit about a couple of subjects 
tonight. I thought the first half hour we would talk about the murder 
simulators that are being created or are created and are currently in 
existence in our country, and then perhaps spend the last half hour, I 
have invited a colleague of mine to come over and talk with me. He is 
an expert in foreign relations. We are going to talk a little more 
about the situation in Kosovo.
  First of all this evening, I want to talk about murder simulation, 
murder simulation.
  Last weekend I had the opportunity to have dinner with a good friend 
of mine, good friends of mine, Dr. Mohamed and Simi Hasan, and their 
heritage is in Pakistan. I asked them about Pakistan. We got on the 
subject, obviously, of the shootings in Colorado, at the Columbine High 
School. I asked them about the situation in Pakistan.
  In Pakistan, they told me that there at a very young age young boys 
are given fully automatic weapons, fully automatic weapons. Those are 
the types of weapons that have been outlawed in this country, against 
the law in this country since about 1937.

[[Page H3383]]

  I asked my friends, the Hasans, as we had this discussion, do you 
have these kinds of incidents in Pakistan? And the answer was no. I 
said, what do you think is the difference? Why does it not happen in 
Pakistan but happens in the United States? It happens even here in our 
home State of Colorado. As many know, I am from the State of Colorado.
  They said, I will tell you why. Give me just a minute. And Mrs. Hasan 
excused herself. She came back to the dinner table and she had this 
magazine. I hope the publishers of this magazine have an opportunity to 
visit with me at some point in the near future.
  This magazine is called ``Next,'' the Next Generation. It is about 
video games. It would be more properly titled ``Next, Murder 
Simulator.'' What do I mean by murder simulator? As I go on with this 
discussion this evening, remember a couple of things.
  First of all, simulators in our society are very common. Any Members 
who have ever studied the art of flying know that we have simulators to 
teach our pilots how to fly airplanes. We even have simulators today 
that show people how to drive cars. Now, unfortunately, we have 
simulators that train and put impressions on very young minds in our 
country, how to murder.
  There are a few questions this evening we should consider as I 
continue with my remarks. Let me go through some of them.
  Number one, what kind of responsibility and accountability are 
reflected by our society, and even more specifically, what kind of 
responsibility and accountability are reflected by the editors and the 
board of directors and the contributors to this Next Generation video 
magazine, as well as some of the games or video murder simulators that 
I am going to talk about?
  What types of values, what kinds of values are we teaching our young 
people with the types of murder simulators I am going to show the 
Members in just a couple of minutes? What type of values are being 
taught here? What types of values do we want to teach our young people?
  These are young, fresh minds. Impressions can be made very easily on 
these young minds. This is the next generation that is going to lead 
our country, and the generation that is going to create a generation 
behind them to take their place. What kinds of impressions do we want 
to make? What kinds of accountability do we want from the people who 
make those impressions? What kind of future does it offer for our 
country?
  Let us talk about what kinds of responsibilities the video game 
industry has. Here, as I am about to show the Members, they celebrate 
the most explicit form of violence that a teenager can experience. They 
celebrate it, they show it off, the most violent type of experience 
that a teenager can experience. We sell it, not we but video producers 
out there. The murder simulators are sold by corporations in this 
country. They are highlighted in magazines, like this magazine right 
here, The Next Generation.
  These games appeal to the worst values in our society. We know what 
kinds of values we want to teach our young people. We have some great 
young people in this country, and they have a wonderful future, but we 
have to guide them. We have been there. As adults, we have had that 
experience. We know that we were blessed, most of us, with experienced 
guiders, our parents, who guided us, helped take us through life. Now 
we have that obligation.
  Why should we have games that appeal to the very worst of elements, 
the things that all of us would dread the most, the things that 
horribly, horribly went wrong at Columbine High School in Colorado 3 
weeks ago? We glorify these kinds of things in video games in this 
country.
  What are the relationships that exist? What kinds of relationships do 
these types of games portray in our society?
  In a single video game, remember this, in a single video game, a 
teenager will see more death and violence than they would in a week's 
worth of TV. We could take any programs we want and take one week's 
worth of TV, and we will see in one video game more violence simulation 
than that whole week of TV.
  Does this turn on, does this ask a question? What is the mystery 
here? What is going wrong here? Something is wrong with these games.
  Do the producers of these games, and I am going to ask this, in fact, 
we have some of their names, and I would be very interested at some 
point to talk to them out there to find out if they have children, and 
if their children are allowed to play these kinds of games that they 
advertise in magazines like this or the kinds of games that they 
manufacture, that they go and sell to our teenagers, to our young 
people.
  Do they allow their own children to do this? It will be a very 
interesting question to be asked of some of these corporate executives.
  Are they legally empowered to deliver this kind of thing? Yes, they 
are legally empowered to do it. Sure they are. People can talk slut 
talk, too. People can talk terrible things.
  Let me tell the Members, we are about to get into this game. Let me 
caution all of my friends out there who have children, if there are any 
children watching this evening, anybody on C-SPAN that might be 
watching our discussions here on the floor, please be advised in 
advance that there are some very gruesome situations that are going to 
be portrayed by video games.
  By the way, we do not find this on the House floor, we can find it in 
any video arcade, practically any video arcade Members want to walk 
into. I have not been to a video arcade in many years. This last 
weekend, as a result of my discussion with my friends over dinner, my 
wife and I actually went to a mall and went to a video arcade place 
located within the mall.
  I was amazed. We can see it right there. There are kids in there with 
their guns. Of course, every once in a while they put money in, they 
pay money, and there it is, murder simulation, blowing this person 
away, blowing that person away.
  By the way, people do not just drop. There are depictions of their 
insides, of the exit wounds, of all kinds of things on these video 
games. These are young people. This was a fairly conservative 
community, of which I went into the mall to go into this video arcade. 
These kids were everywhere, I would guess, from 7 years old to 13 or 14 
years old, playing these video games.
  What do Members think the impression is that goes on the mind of a 
young 7-year-old boy who sits in front of this game shooting, and the 
more he shoots, the more body parts fly out on this video arcade?

                              {time}  2115

  Well, hold on, because let us take a look. I went through this 
magazine right here. Again, I want to keep showing this because if any 
of my colleagues have any questions or doubts about my comments this 
evening, before they criticize me, before they pick up the phone and 
call my office, I urge my colleagues to go out, go to their local mall 
this weekend, and go to a video arcade store and see what kind of 
games, what kind of murder simulation is taking place in there, and 
then draw the question upon your own mind:
  One, what kind of values are we teaching our young people? Number 
two, does this have an impression on the mind and could somebody 
possibly, through some kind of devious thought, extend these to the 
kind of murder situations that we see with gangs on the streets or in 
the worst case scenario as we saw at the Columbine High School?
  Let us go ahead and begin the video murder simulator. This is an 
advertisement. This is a two-page ad and it is found in the ``Next 
Generation'' magazine. This magazine, this is the June issue, so their 
ad is found inside this magazine.
  The video game is titled ``You're Gonna Die.'' Now I have got a red 
laser here. Follow my light. My light is right there at ``You're.'' 
``You're Gonna Die,'' that is the name of the video game.
  Right here is a human body. By the way, the weapon they are holding 
is a fully automatic, it looks like a fully automatic weapon outlawed 
in this country since 1932. Surrounded by the head of the human body, 
that is not red hair. This body is laying in a pool of blood.
  Remember, this game can be played by a 7 year old. This game can be 
played by a 10 year old. This game can be played by a 13 year old.
  Here is some of the advertising that is contained within this ad. 
This, by the way, is called ``Kingpin, Life of

[[Page H3384]]

Crime.'' That is the name. This is the ``Kingpin'' game, ``Life of 
Crime.''
  Up here, ``Target,'' now my colleagues may not be able to see this 
but I will read it for them here, ``target specific body parts and 
actually see the damage done, including exit wounds.''
  Well, by gosh, let me tell my colleagues something. This Saturday, I 
am going to be in Cortez, Colorado. Do my colleagues know what I am 
going to be doing in Cortez, Colorado? I am going down there for a 
memorial service for a gentleman named Dale Claxton. Who is Dale 
Claxton? Dale Claxton was a police officer who was shot and killed in 
the line of duty in the State of Colorado 1 year ago. He was shot 27 
times.
  If these people, the people that produce this game, want to see exit 
wounds, maybe they ought to come visit with me and I will show them 
some pictures of exit wounds. I do not think it is very funny, and I do 
not think it is an amazing game. I do not think it ought to be 
something that should be sold in the marketplace. I sure as heck do not 
think it is something we ought to expose to our young, young children 
as a game. Put in the quarter, get to simulate murder.
  Let us go on. Let us go on to our next box right over here. ``Even 
the odds by recruiting the gang members you want on your side.'' So 
even the odds. One gets to go out in this game, and one has vicious 
gang members that they get to pick, kind of like when one lined up in 
school and one got to pick who goes on which team. You are on the blue 
team, you are on the red team, you are on the blue team, you are on the 
red team.
  In this particular game, one gets to pick which vicious gang members 
one wants on one's team so one can go out and play the game ``You're 
Gonna Die''. Or steal a bike or hop a train to get around town. On the 
game, it simulates a train so that one can figure out how to jump onto 
it, or to steal a bike. Steal a bike, not borrow a bike, not take one's 
own bike. It is also incorporated within here.
  Built on top of the revolutionary Quake II engine. Includes 
multiplayer gang bang death match for up to 16 thugs. Actual game play 
screens. Talk to people the way you want, from smack to pacifying. Talk 
to people the way you want under this game, from smack to pacifying.
  Here are the people that really ought to be proud of it, ``Kingpin, 
Life of Crime.'' We will go through some of the names of the 
corporations that actually make this product and market this product, 
and then go to this magazine and ask this magazine to put it in the 
hands, like the hands of that young man whose parents I had dinner with 
last week. We are going to talk about those people in just a moment.
  Let me say to my colleagues that I used to be a police officer. I do 
want my colleagues to know that I am a member of the House 
Entertainment Task Force. I believe in good entertainment. I think one 
has a right to good entertainment. I think there is a lot of good 
entertainment out there without having to revert to this.
  But when one puts these kind of video games in a video arcade in a 
mall, it is almost as if one has a magnet drawing these young people 
into this thing. Really, I just want all of my colleagues, I know that 
I have said this already, but I think it would be so important for my 
colleagues, this weekend or as soon as they go by a mall or a video 
arcade store, go on in there. Walk through there. Just observe what one 
sees.
  Then think about. Well, was Congressman Scott McInnis way off base 
when he talked about this? Does this game really belong out here in the 
mall for kids to come in and spend their money on? Does a game that 
talks about target specific body parts and actually see the damage 
done, including exit wounds, is that what we ought to do?
  Should we not have a question about where some kid in our society, 
and I say some because we have a lot of good kids, a lot more good kids 
by a large, large margin than bad kids, but is it possible that some of 
the kids that take the wrong path in our society are influenced by 
these kind of games?
  We know that simulation influences pilots when we have pilots on a 
flight simulator. We know that puts an impression on their mind. We 
know it trains them to fly an airplane. Same thing with the car 
simulator. We know that if we put one in that car simulating machine, 
one will learn how to drive a car better. One will actually think one 
is driving a car, and it will put impressions on one's mind. It imbeds 
them on one's mind.
  This game does exactly the same thing, except it does not do it for 
flying, it does not do it for driving, it does it for murder. Murder. 
Kingpin. We will talk about him in a minute.
  There is another game. This is an ad for the D-Link video game. 
Remember, I did not have to search, go out and do a lot of research to 
find these games. I got one magazine, this magazine right here. I got 
one more magazine similar to it in my office. So I just picked up two 
magazines randomly. This was sent to the House. It is a June edition.
  One does not have to search very far to find what I am finding. This 
is not a rare kind of thing, a unique circumstance, and a Congressman 
just happened to go pull this stuff up through a lot of 
extensive research. One can buy it probably, I would guess, at any 
magazine shelf, rack.

  Let us look at this game. ``Gratuitous violence is 200 times faster 
with the D-Link network.'' Gratuitous violence, those are the key 
words. Let us define what Webster's Dictionary says is meant by the 
word ``gratuitous.'' It is very important. Apply their definition to 
the game.
  Gratuitous, in the dictionary. Gratuitous: not called for by the 
circumstances. In other words, there are no circumstances calling for 
this kind of action. It is without reason. This kind of action is 
without reason. There is no reason for it. It is without reason. It is 
without cause. It is without proof. It is adopted or asserted without 
any good ground. So it is adopted or it is asserted without any good 
ground, as a gratuitous assumption.
  Now look it up here. Let us just put this in here. Not called for by 
circumstances, without reason, cause, or proof, and adopted without any 
good ground, et cetera, with a D-Link network 200 times faster than 
other on-line games. Violence. It is exactly what it does. Gratuitous 
violence.
  Here is the next one. This caption is used to promote the game 
``Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver.'' ``Destroying your enemies isn't 
enough, you must devour their souls.'' ``Destroying your enemies isn't 
enough, devour their souls.'' Of course the game helps one do that.
  For those of my colleagues who use the Internet, I think they would 
find it very interesting to go ahead and download this. If one 
downloads this on one's computer, and Next Generation publishes this, 
this is owned by Kingpin, if one downloads it, it allows one to see, 
and this is a quote, this is a quote from my download, we did this on 
the Internet, ``Now available, a wonderful,'' look at the word it uses, 
wonderful, ``a wonderful depiction of a massive gang hit. Blood 
splatters galore.''
  So from the Kingpin web site, go ahead and put Kingpin in the search 
on the Internet, pull up their web site, and that one is going to find 
in quotes. Here is their definition. ``It is now available, a wonderful 
depiction of a massive gang hit. Blood splatters galore.''
  That is what we are making available in our society. People that do 
this, they make money off of this. Do my colleagues know what drives 
this? Not a conscious, not a conscious decision to do something that 
contributes to society. That is not what drives this kind of video game 
and the mind behind it. It is not somebody trying to educate our young 
people. It is not somebody that, with good intent, is trying to give a 
strong impression and education for our young people. It certainly not 
somebody that is trying to create some kind of religious base for our 
young people.
  This is driven by one word, greed, G-R-E-E-D. That is exactly what 
makes these people create these games where one can call, like 
``Kingpin, Life of Crime,'' ``You're Gonna Die''.
  Think about it, folks. We are allowing greed to drive these kind of 
games, and these kind of impressions are being made on our young 
people, and then we question, gosh, what went wrong in Littleton, 
Colorado? Why did that happen in Littleton, Colorado? What is happening 
to our young people?
  What is happening to our generation that allows our young people to 
have

[[Page H3385]]

these kind of things? What is happening to our generation that, driven 
solely by the word ``greed,'' manufactures, sells, and advertises these 
kind of programs?
  As I mentioned, I want to talk about, for a minute, Interplay 
executives. As I said to my colleagues, it is my opinion there are 
people, this by the way, and I am not sure of the complete corporate 
structure, other than we have the corporation names down in the bottom 
of the advertisement, one of the corporations is called Interplay, 
another corporation is called Xatrix, another one is Crystal Dynamics, 
and Eidos.
  On this one, who is Interplay, and what do they stand for? Interplay 
Entertainment Corporation is a worldwide developer, publisher, and 
distributor of award-winning entertainment software for both core 
gamers and the mass market.
  Interplay Corporation, Interplay Entertainment Corporation was 
founded in 1983. Interplay offers a broad range of products in the 
action, adventure, role playing, strategy and sports categories across 
multiple platforms, including Nintendo 64. The company completed its 
initial public offering in June 1998.
  There are other things about it. Interplay, on the maximizing 
franchise and brand value, Interplay seeks to publish hit titles whose 
strong consumer appeal and resulting consumer loyalty will create 
opportunities for franchise titles, sequels, add-ons and merchandising.
  As we went further in the web site, we found out who some of the 
Interplay Executives are. Brian Fargo, Mr. Fargo is chairman of the 
board of directors. He is the chief executive officer, and he is the 
president. I am going to contact Mr. Fargo.
  I am going to contact Mr. Kilpatrick. Mr. Kilpatrick, Christopher J. 
Kilpatrick in fact is the president. I am going to contact Mr. 
Kilpatrick.
  Manuel Marrero, he is the chief operating financial officer. He is 
the corporate secretary. Phil Adam, Phil Adam is the vice president of 
business development. I am going to contact Phil. Kim Motika, vice 
president of strategic development; Trish June Wrightt, vice president 
of product development; James C. Wilson, vice president of finance; Jim 
Maia, vice president of North American sales; Cal Morrell, vice 
president of marketing; Jill Goldworn, president of Interplay and OEM, 
Inc.; David Perry, president of Shiny Entertainment, Inc.; Peter 
Bilotta, president of Interplay Productions Limited.
  I am going to contact each of these people. In fact, I am sending a 
letter to them. I am going to ask them a few questions.
  Let us talk about Brian, Brian Fargo, chairman of the board of 
directors, chief executive officer and president. He could put a stop 
to this that fast. Brian, all you would have to do in the morning is 
pick up a telephone and say, take that thing off the shelves now.

                              {time}  2145

  And the next time, Brian, somebody comes up to you and says, hey, 
this is the kind of video game, ``You're Going to Die,'' Mr. President, 
it is going to show body parts and it will show exit wounds and they 
can pick their own gang members, what do you think, Mr. Fargo? Do you 
think this is good for his company? Do you think that he can make a lot 
of money off this, should we put it on our shelves?
  And, Mr. Fargo, you are going to have the opportunity to say, ``No, 
our company does not need money like that. Our company is not in this 
for greed. Our company sees no values in putting this kind of game on 
the market. Our company, Interplay, is ready and prepared to accept 
responsibilities.''
  You know why you should be saying this, Mr. Fargo? Because my bet is 
your children, Mr. Fargo, do not play these games. My bet, Mr. Fargo, 
is that you and your wife probably have never sat down with any child, 
any child, probably not any adult and played this game.
  In fact, Mr. Fargo, I bet if I sat down with your family and wanted 
to explain this game to them in the front room of your house, you 
probably would be deeply offended and you would probably say to me, ``I 
have more values. My family deserves more than what you are about to 
exhibit to them.''
  Well, Mr. Fargo, today you have a responsibility to set in your own 
mind that the first thing you want to do when you get in your office 
tomorrow morning is to call up your production manager and say to your 
production manager, ``Stop production of the video game called `You're 
Going to Die'.''
  And if you do not, Mr. Fargo, then I want you to think about 
Littleton, Colorado, and Columbine High School. Every time there is a 
gang shooting in this country, every time there is any kind of violence 
like that that could possibly come as a result of playing your murder 
simulation machine, which you allow to be produced for money, which you 
market out there, you ought to think about it. You ought to think about 
your own kids.
  And, Brian, I am not just talking to you. Colleagues, I am talking to 
everybody that works for this corporation and every other corporation 
out there that makes video games. We all have a responsibility as 
adults. It is not a free ride anymore. We are adults. The 
responsibility of the future of this country does not belong to our 
parents anymore. It belongs to us. And before too long, it is going to 
belong to the generation behind us.
  We now have values and principles that we have to stand up for, even 
when it means that we could get money instead. It is our generation 
that has the responsibility. And everybody that works for a corporation 
like this, every chief executive officer in this country that has a 
video arcade game manufacturing facility or any other type of product 
that simulates murder, ought to go to the office tomorrow morning and 
pull it off the shelves. They ought to tell their research and 
development people, ``Do not ever bring another product like that to my 
desk. Because, if you do, you are going to work for somebody else if 
you are lucky enough to find a job.''
  Let us see tomorrow how many executives really carry out what I think 
is a responsibility incumbent upon them not just as chief executive 
officers but as concerned parents and as concerned citizens in this 
country.
  I am going to write them all a letter, these names, I am going to 
write these people letters. I would be happy to copy my colleagues on 
them. I am going to ask them to do just what I have talked about.
  Let us talk about another entertainment company, Xatrix, X-A-T-R-I-X, 
Entertainment. Now, they are somehow connected with Interplay 
Entertainment Corporation to produce ``You're Going to Die.'' Here is 
what Xatrix's mission is:
  ``Our goal is to create games that are revolutionary, innovative, 
inspiring, and, most of all, fun to play.'' That is fair enough. 
``Truly a development lead organization, Xatrix seeks to customize its 
titles with new and emerging technologies in an effort to give gamers 
what they want. As third acceleration of on-line gaming emerged, Xatrix 
looks at the forefront with an unparalleled game play technology and 
design. Technological and creative vision has no boundaries.'' Think of 
that. This is a corporation saying to you ``technological and creative 
vision has no boundaries, and we intend to push the limits of 
interactive gaming.''
  Well, who accepts advertisements? Put ourselves in the mind of a 
magazine. Who on Earth, if they brought this game to us, which one of 
my colleagues would be willing, if they owned a magazine or a 
newspaper, which one of my colleagues sitting on this House floor 
tonight or any of my colleagues that are listening to me, how many of 
them would be willing to run an ad for this video game ``You're Going 
to Die,'' which, as I said earlier, targets specific body parts where 
they actually get to see the damage done, including exit wounds? How 
many of you, raise your hands, how many of you would be willing to sell 
this advertisement to help these people market these murder simulators?
  Well, we have got a list and we have got some people that are very, 
very willing to do it.
  Let me read for my colleagues, Imagine Media. This, by the way, is an 
organization that is willing to take these kind of ads. They are not 
only willing to take these kind of ads, they are willing to place these 
ads in the hands of

[[Page H3386]]

young children throughout this country and they are willing to do it 
for a buck. That is what is driving it.
  Remember, as I said earlier, this is not being driven by good will, 
obviously. It is not being driven by an intent to educate our children. 
It is not being driven to simulate somebody how to drive a car better. 
It is not being driven to show simulation for flying an airplane so 
they know how to fly a plane better. It is being driven out of greed to 
make a buck off murder simulation.
  And it is done through this magazine. I will hold it up again. ``Next 
Generation,'' which is published by Imagine Media, Incorporated, in 
Brisbane, California, I think. It is 150 North Hill Drive.
  At any rate, let us get into what they are saying. This is inside the 
magazine: ``Imagine Media is aimed at people who have a passion, a 
passion for games, for business, for computers, or for the Internet. 
These are passions we share frequently. Our goal is to feed your 
passion with the greatest magazine web sites and CD ROMs imaginable. We 
love to innovate. We love to have fun and we seem to love to say 
`passion' a lot. We have a cast iron rule always to deliver spectacular 
editorial material. That means doing whatever it takes to give you the 
information you need. That means doing whatever it takes. With any 
luck, we will even make you smile sometimes. Thanks for joining us.
  ``Next Generation also has a passion for changing the text that the 
marketing people give us if it gets in the way of a section that we 
usually put funny text in. Heck, sometimes it is all that that keeps 
us going. See above this box for more funny little text.''

  So what they are saying here is that they have a passion. They have a 
passion. You do whatever it takes whatever it takes to market this kind 
of trash. That is exactly what this magazine does.
  Now, this magazine, granted, has some other advertisements in it that 
are not offensive in nature. It would be very easy for this magazine to 
sell copies off the news stand without putting this on their middle 
fold-out page. They could do it without this advertisement.
  This advertisement that you see right here, this is what this 
duplicates. This is exactly that ad right here, ``You're Going to 
Die.'' Now, this one right there, look at it, for greed. For greed. I 
wonder if the people at Imagine Corporation that print this ``Next 
Generation'' magazine, I wonder if they sit down with their families, 
the editor in chief. And we have got the names here. Let us ask them.
  Chris Charla, C-H-A-R-L-A. He is the editor in chief; Sarah Ellerman, 
managing editor; Tim Russo, senior editor; Jeff Lundgran, review 
editor; Blake Fischer; Lisa Chido, assistant art director.
  I want to know something on the Imagine. That is ``Next Generation.'' 
I want to ask them a question. Have they sat down with their children 
as the editor here, Chris, or Sarah as the managing editor, Sarah, have 
you sat down with your children and showed them that ad? Have you sat 
down and showed them this particular ad? Have you, Sarah? Have you done 
it, Sarah?
  What have you said to your children, Sarah? ``This is how I make 
money''? ``This is how your mother goes out and makes money''? Chris, 
how about you? Do you sit down with your children and say, hey, ``I am 
your dad. That is what I do for a living right here. I sell it. I sell 
murder simulators to young kids not much older than you kids''? ``And 
by the way, kids, as soon as we get time, maybe we will go down to the 
video arcade and play the game that daddy advertises or that mommy 
advertises.''
  Come on, colleagues, it is trash. We know doggone right that the 
people that publish that magazine, that editor and that managing editor 
whose names I just mentioned, we know darn right their kids do not play 
these games. We know darn right that they do not talk to their kids in 
the kind of language that they put in this magazine.
  You know why? Because when it comes to their own children, I would 
guess, I do not know them, I would guess they have pretty strong 
values. And when it comes to their own children, I would guess they 
have pretty definite dreams for them. And when it comes to their own 
children, I bet they are very protective of what those children are 
exposed to. But when it comes to other people's children, there is a 
little different interruption that comes in, and it is called 
``greed.''
  They do not protect other children. They are not concerned about 
other children. And they put this right in the middle of their 
magazine. And not only that, this corporation, which is a different 
corporation now, puts it on the Internet and allows you to zoom in and 
see some very graphic, as they say, blood splatters.
  Well, how about the corporation that owns this particular magazine? 
You know what was real interesting that I found out when we went on the 
web? This is not detective work, by the way. This is information on the 
web site. I did not have an agency go out and look it up. We pulled it 
up on the web site very easy.
  We found out about Imagine Corporation, the executives. And what 
really surprised me was the executives listed their family. They listed 
their family members. For example, the president of the Entertainment 
Division, Jonathan Simpson-Bint, one of the things in his biography is 
Jonathan lives in San Francisco with his wife Caroline and their infant 
son Milo. John, have you sat down and showed Caroline what you 
advertise? Would you ever in your wildest dreams, in your sickest 
moments, would you ever sit down with Milo, your son, who I am sure is 
a beautiful, beautiful young son, a son whom you have big dreams for, 
would you ever sit down and show this to him?
  Answer it for me. Answer the question, Jonathan. You know what? I 
hope when you do that tomorrow morning you too go to your corporate 
offices and say, ``Pull the ad. We do not need to sell this kind of 
trash through our magazine to make a buck. We can make plenty of money 
without reverting to doing these kind of video murder simulation 
machines to the young people of this country.''
  And it does not end. We have somebody else, the president of the 
Business and Computer Division, Mark Gross. Mark Gross says on the web 
page he is the father of the coolest 8-year-old, the coolest 8-year-old 
on the planet, and lives with his family in Burlingame.
  Can my colleagues imagine a father saying, hey, I have got the 
coolest 8-year-old on the planet? Now, there is a proud father. There 
is a father that cares about his kid. There is a father that is beaming 
with pride. That is when he goes home at night when he is with the 
family. But when he is at work, this is what they do. This is the kind 
of stuff they market, not to his children, not to Jonathan's child 
Milo, but to my children, to the children of my colleagues, to 
everybody's children in this chamber. That is what these people market.
  Tom Balentino. This surprised me. He is the Chief Financial Officer. 
He makes sure they make money off this. He is the one that does the 
accounting on this ad.

                              {time}  2145

  Remember, I am not complaining about the ad, it is the message in the 
ad. Let us not be confused in these comments. Do you know how many 
children he has? Five. He has five of his own children. Why would 
somebody with five children just endanger a family who has just one 
child? Just one child. Why would you, if you owned a corporation, feel 
a necessity to go out there in your magazine and create and allow this 
kind of advertising, or how could you as a parent go out and produce 
this kind of game?
  How can you sit down with your bright mind while your children are 
playing in another room, and what kind of sick mind does it take to 
devise this type of video arcade murder simulation game called 
``Kingpin, Life of Crime,'' where you get to pick your gang members, 
where the video game allows you, and I will repeat it up here, to 
target specific body parts and actually see the damage done, including 
the exit wounds. What kind of father or mother could do that? Well, our 
society has produced some of them.
  And Holy Klingel, Holy is the mother of two preschool children. It is 
either Holy or Holly, I am not sure which. Let us just say it is Holly. 
Holly, have you done it with your two preschool children? Have you 
taken them to play

[[Page H3387]]

this game? Would you let them be exposed to this game? Why do you 
participate in this? Driven by greed, I guess?
  Does anybody want to go out there on the streets today and put in our 
video arcades this kind of murder simulation game? I think I have 
gotten my message across pretty clear to you. There are a couple of 
things that I am going to ask.
  First of all, the Internet providers, you have a responsibility. I 
know we have got the freedom of speech. I am not asking for the 
creation of a new governmental agency to come down and force you to 
surrender your freedom of speech.
  But I am asking you to exercise responsibility as an adult. Exercise 
responsibility as a business executive and pull some of this garbage 
off your Internet sites. You do not need it. You do not need it to pay 
your bills. You do not need it to make your company well known 
throughout the country. And for gosh sakes, the children of this 
country do not need it. Think about the kids.
  I will bet a lot of the names I just mentioned to you are soccer 
parents. I bet a lot of the names of the people that I just mentioned 
to you talk with pride about the children in the next generation, that 
we need more schools for them and we need better teachers, et cetera, 
et cetera, et cetera. Yet in the background, in the background they are 
the creators and the advertisers and the marketers and the profiteers 
of this game.
  There is one other thing I am going to try and do as a Congressman. I 
hate to take this down because I want you to see how grotesque it is, 
but I feel I have a responsibility as well. I was giving some thought 
to what can I do as a Congressman to help here? How can I help?
  One, I think it is important to come to the House floor of the U.S. 
House of Representatives and pass on this message, which is what I have 
been doing for the last half an hour or so. Second, I think it is 
important for me to figure out how to devise some type of action that 
we can take. I do not want to create more laws. I am not sure that is 
the answer.
  Obviously we need to spend more time in our families. When you get 
down to it, the bottom line is family. It is not just your family. So 
these corporate executives that produce this kind of murder simulator 
ought to have a family responsibility beyond their own family.
  But there are other things that we can do, too. Here is what I am 
going to do on my part. I am going to contact the Consumer Product 
Safety Commission. Everybody has thought the Consumer Product Safety 
Commission is about seat belts or child restraint seats or dangerous 
toys. I think this video arcade game and games similar to it which are 
murder simulators, are dangerous toys. I am going to ask them for their 
thoughts on it.
  I am going to contact the video game makers, many of whom I have 
mentioned tonight, and ask them for a voluntary recall. I am also going 
to contact their board of directors. I am going to contact the video 
game magazines and ask that they pull all their advertising. They do 
not need it.
  I am going to notify Parent-Teacher Associations and other child 
advocacy groups and make them aware of these video games. I am going to 
sit down with every PTA I can. I am going to sit down with every parent 
organization I can. I am going to sit down with every group that has 
been formed as a result of the shooting in Littleton, Colorado, and I 
am going to show them your advertising. And I am going to say it is 
time for us to take some parental marketing strength to the 
marketplace.
  We need to talk about this. We need to publish the fact that these 
kind of games are out there, and we need to urge parents, we need to 
urge every parent in this country in the next few days, not months from 
now but in the next few days, every father and mother and every 
grandmother and grandfather in this country should take enough time to 
go to your local video arcade amusement center and take a look at what 
kind of games are in that facility. If you do not agree with that, you 
ought to file a complaint with the owner.
  I notice that as I begin to change subjects here, that I have had a 
colleague of mine join me from the State of Georgia. I am glad the 
gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Kingston) is here. If I might, if the 
gentleman would not mind, I would be happy to yield to the gentleman 
for a couple of minutes.
  Mr. KINGSTON. I thank the gentleman from Colorado for that. I am a 
father of four children. Of course our kids like to play video games 
here and there. So I share your concern and I appreciate your raising 
this issue with the Members of Congress because it is something that, 
as you have said, does not necessarily take a new law but we need to 
raise the awareness about it.
  I wanted to ask you, when children buy these games or go into a video 
arcade where these games are offered as one of the choices, is there 
any kind of label, any kind of warning the way there is with explicit 
CD lyrics when you buy, that has the warning? Is there any kind of 
warning on these?
  Mr. McINNIS. There is a label. Mind you that this particular 
advertisement which I show right here to the gentleman from Georgia is 
contained within this magazine. This magazine can be bought by anybody. 
A 5-year-old can buy the magazine. In addition, this particular game is 
made by Interplay Entertainment Corporation. We pulled it up on the 
web. So anybody that knows how to use the Internet, and I know kids, 6, 
7-year-old kids that can begin to use that, young children, they can 
pull it up as well.
  There is over here in the corner, a little label, a little M, that 
says mature audience. There is a little warning label right here in the 
corner. There is absolutely no kind of restriction. This magazine, of 
course, does not say for mature audiences only. When you get onto the 
web site, you can access it, so in essence this little warning system 
means nothing.

  But what amazes me, to my good colleague from Georgia, is this game 
is so grotesque. As I mentioned earlier, it talks about the exit 
wounds, the body parts, splattering of blood. It is so grotesque, we 
should not be asking the question to the manufacturer, ``Is it better 
if we put a warning label on it?'' We ought to say to the manufacturer, 
``Don't you have your own family? Don't you have your own kids? Would 
you take this game home tonight?''
  My bet, as the gentleman from Georgia knows, is I will bet there is 
not one executive associated with any of these corporations that has 
this game at home for their video arcade for their own children.
  Mr. KINGSTON. I have had actually some of these action items which 
you had listed, I have done on explicit CD lyrics, and basically from 
the large vendors gotten the shoulder shrug. ``Your kids don't have to 
listen to it. We have lots of people. Your kids don't have to play 
it.''
  If following your action items a parent wants to write the 
manufacturer and ask the question, do you feel proud making this, do 
you feel good about 13-year-olds who are on the edge, high risk kids 
who are left alone for hours as Klebold and Harris were doing, they 
played these type games, not necessarily this game but they played 
violent video games for hours, as I have read the news reports. If 
parents want to do that, how can they get the address? I know that the 
manufacturer's name is listed on there, but how do they get the address 
on who to write the letter to?
  Mr. McINNIS. That is a good question. The first thing on the 
awareness level, and I agree with the gentleman from Georgia and I 
appreciate his points, I think that just the gentleman and I talking on 
the House floor to these manufacturers and asking them to stop 
production of these gruesome murder simulators will not work because I 
think they will just disregard us. But what will work on the awareness 
level is for parents to actually physically go into these arcade 
amusement centers.
  We can urge people, anybody who has a child or anybody that knows a 
child, cares about children, should in the next 3 or 4 days make it a 
point to go into a video arcade amusement center and see what kind of 
games are being played in your neighborhood center. And then what they 
should do is go to the owner of that store, of that arcade facility and 
say, ``That game doesn't belong in our community. That game doesn't 
belong in this store. You ought to send it back.''
  In the meantime, I can tell you, I do not want this magazine to have 
more

[[Page H3388]]

sales, at least with the kind of advertising. Mind you, there is some 
advertising in this magazine to me that seems very legitimate, that is 
fine advertising. I would not use the products, but it is not a death 
message in there that they are selling.
  But this magazine, Next Generation, you can go to any store, I would 
guess, any large magazine store, and you will find these magazines on 
the racks, video game on the racks. Simply pull it up, look for an ad, 
if you see an ad on this kind of game, ``You're Gonna Die,'' it is very 
easy, pull it up on the web. It also has addresses in there and 
addresses of the magazine.
  On top of this, you have got the name of the corporations in the 
bottom of this ad and they have a web site there, www.interplay.com, 
king in corpse. Notice the web site, king in corpse. That is their web 
site. Sick web site. Nonetheless, it has addresses for the corporation.
  But to my colleague, I think the best thing for us to do for 
awareness is urge parents just in the next few days, go down to the 
video store and take a look for yourself. Do not take our word for it, 
take a look for yourself. If you are offended as I am by these games, 
tell the local proprietor about that.
  Mr. KINGSTON. Or as you pointed out that web site, and you might want 
to read it again, if people have the Internet, to call up the web site 
and that would maybe be the starting point in the search.
  But when you are talking about the sponsors of the Next Generation 
magazine, even if somebody is legitimately selling tennis shoes, which 
is certainly an innocuous and a healthy product, they still are 
sponsoring this magazine. This magazine could not get in the hands of 
12-year-olds without that tennis shoe commercial.
  One of the things that I have always advocated to people is you have 
a lot of power through the voting booth but you have a lot more power 
every day at the cash register. If you write a letter to XYZ Widgets 
and say, ``I'm going to quit buying your product because of who you 
support through your advertising,'' they are going to respond to that 
if they get enough letters.
  Here we are right now in a society that is trying to come to grips 
with this terrible Columbine High School situation. We are looking for 
things. This is not going to solve it by itself, but is this a piece of 
the puzzle? I would say that it is a piece. It is part of the toxin 
that our children have to live, breathe and eat and sleep and be 
exposed to in one form or the other.
  And is this healthy as an influence on your child? Will this bring 
your child better to a healthy, normal type life-style or will it take 
him away from it? Then if you say, ``Oh, I'm not worried about it,'' 
well, how many hours are you comfortable with them playing the ``You're 
Gonna Die'' video? Do you want your kid playing it 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 
hours, 5 hours a day? As parents we have to ask ourselves these 
questions. And will exposure to this move your kid along in the right 
direction that you want him or her to be moving in? Probably not. That 
is why we have to be very aware of all the things that are after our 
children's minds and their souls.
  Mr. McINNIS. As the gentleman from Georgia knows, these young people 
can be impressed so easily. The mind impressions. There are a lot of 
studies that have been done to see what kind of impact these kind of 
things have. We know they have an impact. Just the same as this 
simulator has an impact for a pilot that is learning how to fly.
  Your question was about urging the letters. My reluctance tonight to 
give addresses for, for example, Interplay Entertainment Corporation, 
which is very easy to find on the web and so on, my reluctance in 
giving addresses is if a lot of letters do not go there, I do not want 
these corporations to think people do not care.
  That is why I have decided to take the route of urging every parent, 
I hope some people are watching this evening that have children or know 
children or care about children, or a local PTA or a local school 
association or the local teachers' union or teachers association. Go 
yourselves to that video arcade store and see what is happening.
  I was mesmerized the other day when I went in and I saw this video 
game. There was a kid there, I could not believe how fast that finger 
was going. He has got two guns and he is shooting like this in this 
video arcade, and the people are blowing up, blood all over the video 
screen and things like that. The way that kid was moving that and even 
going like this, across, it amazed me. That is what is going on in that 
mind. That kid is not out playing football or baseball.
  By the way, the community where this is has wonderful recreational 
facilities for their young children. It is not like this kid had no 
other choice. But I hope to get some parents into these video arcade 
stores and they are saying, ``Hey, my kid's not coming in here.''
  The question that should be asked, as the gentleman from Georgia 
brought up, I think the standard here of every chief executive officer 
in this country, every chief executive officer in this country, before 
he or she approves this kind of product, they ought to ask, ``Am I 
willing to take it home for my children?'' Instead of asking, ``Is it 
going to make us a buck?'' is it going to drive the greed of this 
corporation, the question that should be really asked is, ``Would I 
show it to my own children? Would I let my children or my grandchildren 
play this game? Would I want them exposed to this?''

                              {time}  2200

  As my colleague knows, it is just not the Littleton disaster, as he 
pointed out. Every day we have shootings or violent incidences, not 
just shooting, but violent incidents in this country. This cannot help 
but play a part, but my colleague said it all comes back to the core of 
the family, family responsibility, corporate responsibility.
  Mr. KINGSTON. I get very concerned when you raise an issue like this, 
that people say, well, as my colleague knows, this is a First 
Amendment. But my colleague has touched on it, that we are not trying 
to pass a new law, we are not trying to amend the First Amendment at 
all. We are saying, ``You know what? This is out there, and it's going 
to be out there, but bombarding children with it, particularly high-
risk children who already maybe have trouble in their home, emotional 
trouble at school, drug problems, alcohol problems that are already 
after their minds and after their hearts; then this comes along. And, 
as my colleague says, instead of going out there playing soccer or 
football with kids where they experience interaction and teamwork and 
sportsmanship and so forth, they are holed up in some dark little room 
in the house, and they are just poking away at the keyboard or on the 
joy stick, and I also think one of the things is we lose a lot of our 
generational imparting knowledge because these kids become such, and I 
do not know if we have a word for it yet, but it is cyber introverts, 
where they can compete, communicate in cyberspace on the Internet or 
with high-tech video, but they cannot talk to their fellow human beings 
any more.
  Mr. McINNIS. Well, it is cyber youth, and I want to let my colleagues 
out here know, because you are listening to the gentleman from Georgia 
(Mr. Kingston) and myself, we are fathers. We have had some experience. 
We both have children, and our wives have children, and I mean share 
that same kind of experience. So we are not speaking as novices.
  And so I think my colleague's points are very valid, and I do want to 
say that in the last hour, as my colleagues know, we have been talking 
about this horrible video game which I call a murder simulator, but I 
do not want it to cast too black a cloud because we should all remember 
that in this country we have a lot of things going right with our young 
people. We have a lot of parents who do care. Most of the parents in 
this country would never let their children play this game. Most 
parents in this country, because they love their children, would never 
let this in their facility. Most schools in this country would never 
let this be played. Unfortunately, a lot of businesses and many video 
arcades might, but there is so much more goes right with our children 
than goes wrong. When we find something that goes wrong, we still need 
to work on it, but there is a lot more that goes right.
  So I yield to my colleague to wrap up, but I do appreciate the 
gentleman coming over. I think we both share the view, obviously we 
share the same viewpoint, and I hope we have done some good with 
awareness.

[[Page H3389]]

  Mr. KINGSTON. I thank the gentleman from Colorado (Mr. McInnis) 
because as a father he is doing the right thing, as a representative 
from Colorado that has all the eyes on us. As my colleagues know, we 
are trying to put these puzzle pieces together, and I do think that 
exposure to this, excessive exposure to unnecessarily violent video 
games, certainly is something that we should talk about, and as my 
colleagues know, as a father of a 16, 13, 10 and 8 year old, I am glad 
that there are people like the gentleman from Colorado (Mr. McInnis) 
who is bringing this out because frankly I do not know about all this, 
and we parents have to talk and see what our kids are up against and be 
more alert.
  And, as my colleague knows, what we do is we raise our antenna a 
little bit higher and a little bit different direction, and then we, as 
parents, as my colleagues know, are watching out. But I think the 
gentleman's action plan is a sound one, and we might want to look at 
that one more time, but to contact the Consumer Product Safety 
Commission, contact the video game manufacturers and makers, ask for a 
voluntary recall, contact the Video Game Magazine and ask them if they 
will pull all their advertising, notify the parent-teacher associations 
and other child advocacy groups, and my colleague said there are a lot 
of groups that have sprung up as a result of Littleton, and they should 
be looking at this, and then find others games that could desensitize 
children to violence.
  And I know the story of one little girl who was crying one time when 
she watched the evening news, and she did not get to watch much TV at 
home, and she said, ``You know, I know when there's a TV show where 
somebody is murdered that it is just a TV show, but this was the 
evening news, and, Daddy, there was a mommy who killed her little girl, 
and it was real life,'' and the little girl telling me the story was in 
tears because she had not been desensitized, and when you think about a 
mother killing her own daughter, it should bring tears to all of us. As 
my colleagues know, big and small, that this is a real situation, and 
so often we blend okay because it happens a lot on violent TV or on 
violent video. It desensitizes us to real life, but when you see 
somebody who has not been desensitized, how they react to life is 
totally different.
  Mr. McINNIS. As my colleague knows, on this particular video game, 
You're Going to Die, when you kill somebody on this video simulator, it 
puts points on the board. You score. You get a positive reaction from 
the game. You win. A little light goes on, here is the score. The more 
you kill, the more points you put on the scoreboard.
  Mr. KINGSTON. Unfortunately for young children, high-risk victims and 
perpetrators of Columbine, Harris and Klebold, there is no reset 
button. Once you did it, it is forever.
  Mr. McINNIS. Reclaiming my time, I do thank the gentleman very much, 
and as I said, to conclude this evening, there is a lot that has gone 
right with our young people, and we have millions of kids that go to 
schools every day, and we do not have these kinds of incidents that 
occur, and we do not have gang killings in every community every day of 
the week, but we do have some problems out there.
  So we have tried to do our part, and I ask you to do your part.
  In conclusion, I would ask that each and every one of you in the next 
three or four days commit to your spouse, commit to your children, that 
you as an adult will go to your video arcade amusement center, just 
walk through and see what kind of games you think those young people 
should be exposed to.


                Announcement By The Speaker Pro Tempore

  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Ryan of Wisconsin). The Chair would 
remind all Members that remarks in debate should be addressed to the 
Chair and not to the viewing audience.

                          ____________________