[Congressional Record Volume 145, Number 45 (Monday, March 22, 1999)]
[Senate]
[Pages S3039-S3050]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
THE SITUATION IN KOSOVO
Mrs. HUTCHISON. Mr. President, I rise today to talk about the
situation in Kosovo. We have been watching this situation unfold for
days, actually months--actually, you could say thousands of years. But
it is coming to a head in the very near future, perhaps in hours. As I
speak today, Richard Holbrooke is talking to Slobodan Milosevic and
trying to encourage him to come to the peace table. I hope he is
successful, and I know every American hopes that he is successful. But
what I think we must talk about today is what happens if he is not.
What happens if Mr. Milosevic says, ``No, I am not going to allow
foreign troops in my country,'' and if he says he is going to move
forward with whatever he intends to do in the governance of that
country? I think we have to step back and look at the situation and the
dilemma which we face, because there is no question, this is not an
easy decision. What comes next?
Basically, the President has committed the United States to a policy
in NATO to which he really does not have the authority to commit. The
consequences are that we have to make a decision that would appear to
walk away from the commitment he made without coming to Congress, and
that is not a good situation. I do not like having to make such a
choice, because I want our word to be good. When the United States
speaks, I want our word to be good. Whether it is to our ally or to our
enemy, they need to know what we say we will do.
But the problem here is, the President has gone out with a commitment
before he talked to Congress about it, and now we have really changed
the whole nature of NATO without congressional approval. We are saying
that we are going to bomb a sovereign country because of their
mistreatment of people within their country, the province of Kosovo,
and we are going to take this action, basically declaring war on a
country that should not be an enemy of the United States and in fact
was a partner at the peace table in the Dayton accords on Bosnia.
So now we are taking sides. We are turning NATO, which was a defense
alliance--is a defense alliance--into an aggressive, perhaps, declarer-
of-war on a country that is not in NATO. Mr. President, I just do not
think we can take a step like that without the Congress and the
American people understanding what we are doing and, furthermore,
approving of it.
There is no question that Mr. Milosevic is not our kind of person. We
have seen atrocities that he has committed in Kosovo. But, in fact,
there have been other atrocities committed by the parties with whom we
are purporting to be taking sides. The Albanians have committed
atrocities as well, the Kosovar Albanians. So we are now picking sides
in a civil war where I think the U.S. security interest is not clear.
I think it is incumbent on the President to come to Congress, before
he takes any military action in Kosovo, to lay out the case and to get
congressional approval. What would he tell Congress? First of all,
before we put one American in harm's way, I want to know: What is the
intention here? What is the commitment? What happens in the eventuality
that Mr. Milosevic does not respond to bombing, that he declares he is
going to go forward without responding to an intervention in his
country? What do we do then? Do we send ground troops in to force him
to come to the peace table? And if we did, could we consider that is
really a peace? What if NATO decides to strike and an American plane is
shot down? What if there is an American POW? What then? What is our
commitment then?
My concern here is that the administration has not looked at the
third, fourth, and fifth steps in a plan. They have only addressed step
1, which is, we are going to bomb because they will not come to the
peace table and accept the agreement that we have hammered out. I just
say, before we go bombing sovereign nations, we ought to have a plan.
We ought to know what steps 3, 4, and 5 are, because I believe Congress
has a right to know what this commitment is. How many people from the
United States of America are going to be put in harm's way? What is it
going to cost and where is the money going to come from? Is it going to
come from other defense accounts, so other places in the world where we
have troops are
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put at risk? Is it going to come at the risk of our Strategic Defense
Initiative? Just where is the money going to come from? Most of all,
most important of all, what is the mission? How much are we going to be
required to do and what is the timetable?
Mr. President, I would support a plan that would say when the two
parties come to a real peace agreement, we would put our troops, along
with our European allies in NATO, together in a peacekeeping mission of
a short duration which would make sure that things settle down until we
could have others rotate in and take our place. I would support a plan
that went that far.
I would also support a plan of helping the Kosovars, but without
putting American troops in harm's way. You know, the difference between
the Clinton doctrine and the Reagan doctrine is that President Reagan
would support freedom fighters with arms, with monetary contributions,
with intelligence--many, many forms of support for freedom fighters--
but he would never put a U.S. military person in the middle of a civil
war. He would help, but he would not make that commitment.
Under the Reagan doctrine, therefore, we could help Afghan rebels and
Nicaraguan freedom fighters. At the same time, we could also continue
to remain strong in Europe and Asia because we could allocate our
resources and we would not drain our resources in small civil conflicts
in chosen places around the world.
What bothers me about what has been happening in the last 3 or 4
years is that we have been putting troops into civil conflicts in
certain parts of the world but not all parts of the world. So every
time we do it, it makes the decision not to do it somewhere else a
little harder. We practically invaded Haiti and we still have 500
troops in Haiti today. We had 18 Army Rangers killed in Somalia in a
mission that was ill-defined and was actually mission creep. The
original mission of feeding starving people had been accomplished, but
we didn't leave. We decided to capture a warlord, something our
military is not trained to do and, therefore, the miscalculation cost
us the lives of 18 great young Americans.
We have inserted ourselves into places like Haiti, Somalia and
Bosnia, but we have not inserted ourselves into Algeria, where there
are just as many atrocities as there have been in any place in the
Balkans. We have not inserted ourselves into Turkey, where there is
mistreatment of the Kurds. We aren't getting involved in the Basque
separatist movement in Spain. We didn't step into Iran when the
Ayatollah took over from the Shah and was assassinating almost every
military leader that couldn't get out of the country, plus the
religious minorities that were still there and their leadership. It is
very difficult, when you start choosing where you are going to involve
yourselves, to extricate yourself when there is no clear policy.
That is why so many of us in Congress are concerned and why we
realize the dilemma. We understand that this is not an easy black and
white decision. We are talking about a commitment that the President
has made. I do not like stepping in and saying that we shouldn't keep a
commitment the President has made. Overriding that great concern is the
consequence of not requiring the President to have a plan and a policy
that will set a precedent for the future. I think we could explain it
by sitting down with our European allies and saying, first of all, if
we are going to change the mission of NATO, this must be fully debated
and fully accepted by every member of NATO within their own
constitutional framework. If we are going to turn NATO from a defense
alliance into an affirmative war-making machine, I think we need to
talk about it.
I will support some affirmative action on the part of NATO, if we are
able to determine exactly what would trigger that and not go off on one
mission without having a precedent for a different mission and,
therefore, creating expectations among more and more people that we
will step in to defend the autonomy of a country such as Kosovo or
Bosnia. We must not allow the expectations to be such that we are drawn
into every conflict, because we will not be able to survive with the
strength that we must have when only the United States will be the one
standing between a real attack from a ballistic missile or a nuclear
warhead or an invasion of another country where we do have a strategic
interest. We cannot allow there to be so many questions because there
is so little policy. That is the responsibility of Congress, to work
with the President.
We will work together. Congress will work with the President to
hammer out a new mission for NATO. We will always do our fair share in
the world. We will never walk away from that. We have to determine what
is our fair share, what is our allocation. I submit that the United
States will always be the leader in technology, and we will create a
ballistic missile defense that will shield not only the United States
and our troops wherever they may be in any theater in the world, but we
also will protect our allies, if we have the strength to go forward. We
will not have the strength to go forward if we continue to spend $3 and
$4 billion a year on conflicts that do not rise to the level of a U.S.
security interest.
We must be able to choose where we spend our defense dollars so that
we will all be protected, ourselves and our allies, from a rogue nation
with a ballistic missile capability that can put a chemical or
biological or nuclear warhead on it and undermine the integrity of
people living in our country.
Mr. President, the consequences are too great for us to sit back and
let the President commit U.S. forces in a situation that I can't
remember us ever having before; that is, to take an affirmative
military action against a sovereign nation that has not committed a
security threat to the United States. Before we would sit back and let
the President do that, I cannot in good conscience say, well, he has
made the commitment, even though he didn't have the right to do it, so
we have got to let him go forward. Perhaps if we aren't lucky and if
Milosevic does not come to the table, we would have more and more and
more responsibilities because of the potential consequences that could
occur if he does not come to the table.
We must know what those consequences are and what we are prepared to
do in the eventuality that an American plane is shot down, that we have
an American prisoner on the ground or that we bomb and bomb and bomb
and bomb and he still does not do what we have asked him to do. We have
to determine what we do in that eventuality. I certainly hope that we
will consult with the Russians so that this war does not escalate into
something that we haven't thought about. If Russia decides to step in
on the side of Serbia, we could have grief beyond what anyone is saying
right now.
I hope the President will work with Congress to fashion a new mission
for NATO that will have the full support of Congress and the American
people. I believe we could do that, because I don't think we are far
apart at all. We cannot do it on an ad hoc basis. We cannot all of a
sudden attack another country on an ad hoc basis and call that a
policy.
I hope the President will come together with Congress and have
hearings. Let's hear from the American people on just what they believe
is the role of the United States. Let's hear from Congress about what
our commitments should be and what is a ready division of
responsibility for keeping the world as safe as we can make it, given
that 30 countries have ballistic missile technology, some of whom are
rogue nations. Let us step back with our European allies and determine
if this is the right decision to make, or are there other ways that we
could be helpful to the Kosovar Albanians.
I remember hour after hour after hour, over a 2-year period, talking
about letting the Muslims have a fair fight in Bosnia, because they
didn't have arms when two of their adversaries did. We never took that
step. Now there is a cease-fire in Bosnia, but there are also many
years to go before we will know what the cost is and if it can be
lasting, because today, Bosnia is still as ethnically divided as it
ever was because it is not safe for the refugees to move back in.
One can say there is disagreement on just how successful was the
Bosnian mission. We do not see fighting, but NATO has just toppled a
duly elected president of one of the provinces. It is pretty hard to
understand. I think it is
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tenuous that we would go in and forcibly remove an elected president
while we are touting democratic ideals.
There was a way to go into Bosnia, but Kosovo is very different.
Kosovo is a civil war in a sovereign nation. There are atrocities.
There have been atrocities on both sides. We are picking one side, and
we are doing it without a vote of Congress. I do not think we can do
it. I do not think the President has the right to declare war, and
under the Constitution, he certainly does not. And under the War Powers
Act, it takes an emergency. This is not an emergency. We are not being
attacked. United States troops are not in harm's way at this point.
We can take the time to talk about it, and the consequences are so
great I think it is worth the time to set a policy that allows us to
have some continuity for the next 25 years, so that our enemies and our
allies will know what the greatest superpower in the world is going to
do and they will not have to guess.
Mr. President, it is a dilemma, and I realize it is. I do not feel
comfortable with the choice. I do not feel comfortable at a time when
we have gone out on a limb, through our President who made a commitment
for us, even though we were not part of it. Nevertheless, I would like
to give the President that support, but it is worth it to take the time
and do it right and ask the President to come forward to give us his
plan, to tell us what happens when American troops are prisoners of war
or on the ground or shot down. We need to know what we would do in that
eventuality before we send them there. That is the least that we can
expect.
I hope we can debate this resolution. I hope people will give their
views. I have heard great debates already on it, not on the Senate
floor, though. The time has come for us to have this debate, and let's
vote up or down. There will be people voting on both sides in good
conscience, seeing it a different way but with the same goal. So let's
have that debate. Let's do it right. Let's don't haul off bombing an
independent nation before the Senate and the House of Representatives
has a plan and approves it or disapproves it. That is what our Founding
Fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution, and it is more
appropriate today than ever.
I hope we will do that, because then the American people will know
what is going on and they will support it or not support it. If we are
going to have a long-term commitment, which I hope we do not, but if we
do, at least it will be with the support of Congress as Desert Storm
was. That was a tough debate. People spoke from the heart on both
sides. They took a vote, and Congress supported the President going
into Desert Storm. That is the way it should be, Mr. President. That is
the way it should be under our Constitution, under our democracy. That
is the way our Government works. I hope it will again as we face the
crisis today that could have very long-term consequences for our
country and for every one of our young men and women in the field
wearing the uniform of the United States of America. Their lives are
worth a debate and a policy, and that is what we are going to try to
give them in the next 24 hours.
I thank the Chair. I yield the floor.
Mr. DORGAN addressed the Chair.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from North Dakota.
Mr. DORGAN. Mr. President, I listened to the Senator from Texas and,
I must say, there are many Members of the Senate who have concerns
about a range of these issues. But I will also say that one of my
concerns is that as sensitive negotiations occur in Belgrade today with
Mr. Holbrooke and others, a resolution that says ``The United States
national security interests in Kosovo do not rise to a level that
warrants military operations'' seems not to be the best of timing.
I understand all the points the Senator made. As she knows, we have
had some discussions about NATO in the past. I am someone who voted
against expanding NATO for a number of reasons. But NATO does exist.
This country is a part of NATO, and NATO has indicated to Mr. Milosevic
that there are consequences to his actions. The actions he has taken
obviously include the slaughter of innocent civilians.
I am troubled, I guess, by having a resolution on the floor of the
Senate at this moment. There will be a time and should be a time for a
robust and aggressive discussion about what exactly is in our national
security interest.
I was someone who was nervous about Bosnia. I would characterize the
circumstances in Bosnia differently than the Senator from Texas did.
There is not just a cease-fire there, there is a peace agreement in
Bosnia, and this country went to Bosnia as a peacekeeper, not a
peacemaker. We did not send American troops into Bosnia to create a
peace that did not exist. We sent American troops in as part of a NATO
contingent in Bosnia to keep a peace that already existed. Those of us
who were watching what happened in Bosnia understood genocide was
occurring in that area. We got involved through NATO. Frankly, it has
worked to this point in a manner that has undoubtedly saved the lives
of many in that region.
The Kosovo issue is, in many ways, as difficult and perhaps more
difficult, and I do not know that airstrikes will have any impact at
all. I honestly do not know. The Senator from Texas indicates that the
President should consult with Congress, and she is absolutely correct
about that. I know that there was a meeting on Friday. I was invited to
a meeting at the White House on Friday, as were a number of my
colleagues. I believe a bipartisan group of Members of Congress were at
the White House on Friday when the President discussed the
circumstances in Kosovo.
I, too, think consultation on these matters is required. Also
required is a significant and robust debate about exactly what is in
this country's national interest. The Senator from Texas has been very
consistent on raising these questions over a long period of time.
However, it bothers me some that the timing of this particular
amendment comes at exactly the moment that there are these discussions
today in Belgrade with President Milosevic about the consequences of
continuing to do what he is doing. Obviously, anybody has a right to
offer any amendment. But I was, frankly, surprised to see the amendment
that has been offered as a second-degree amendment. I understand that
there will be a vote on a cloture motion tomorrow at 2:15 on this
second-degree amendment. And this is a very difficult time for us to be
essentially sending this message to Mr. Milosevic.
Mrs. HUTCHISON. Will the Senator yield?
Mr. DORGAN. I am happy to yield to the Senator from Texas.
Mrs. HUTCHISON. I just say to the Senator from North Dakota that I
understand the concern about timing. And I could not agree with him
more about the timing. But I will just point out that the amendment I
offered was actually offered early last week as an amendment that I
thought should be considered in a supplemental appropriations bill
because, of course, it will require a supplemental appropriation. As
you know, after the bill was laid down and other amendments were
considered, this second-degree amendment was put on Friday. And now so
much has happened in the last 48 hours that the timing is not perfect;
there is no question about it.
I just say to the Senator from North Dakota that we have been trying
to talk about this for quite a while. And the House took up an
amendment 2 weeks ago that now is totally obsolete, because the Serbs
have refused to come to the table. So I concede that the timing is bad,
but I do not know when it gets better. We certainly are not going to
influence Mr. Milosevic right this minute in that Mr. Holbrooke is
talking to him right this minute.
But I do think that we have to have this debate, because if we do
start an action before we have had this debate, and before the American
people fully understand what the issues are and can weigh in, I do not
think that would be acceptable, particularly if it is a long-term
commitment. So I do not disagree at all with what seems to be very bad
timing. I just do not know when it gets better.
Mr. DORGAN. If I might reclaim my time, the timing here is more than
``less than perfect,'' as the Senator suggested. If I were involved in
negotiations this afternoon in Belgrade with Mr. Milosevic, the Lott
amendment would be of great concern to me, because I would expect that
someone sitting across the table from me would
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say, ``Well, you are offering threats of airstrikes, but I can tell you
that at this moment there is legislation pending in the U.S. Senate to
prohibit those very strikes you're suggesting represent the threat to
me.''
I only say that I wish at this point we could have found a way--or
could still find a way--to have the kind of debate about what is in the
national security interest, what is the role of NATO, all of the kinds
of discussions that the Senator suggests. Clearly, those are
discussions we should and will have. But I rose simply to say I think
the timing of this amendment detracts from the ability of our
negotiators to express the threat of NATO action.
If I were negotiating for our side, debating this amendment is
probably the last sort of thing I would want to see happen, because I
don't think it serves our negotiating interests.
I do not say that personally in terms of anybody who offered this.
The Senator from Texas indicated that she introduced this discussion in
the Appropriations Committee, of which I am a member. She is correct
about that. But this most recent amendment was laid down, I believe,
Friday, and a cloture motion filed on Friday; and that is what I am
concerned about.
Mrs. HUTCHISON. The Senator is correct, it was laid down Friday. But
this amendment does not prohibit the airstrikes. It just says that we
must come to Congress first, that the President must come to Congress
and present a full plan first. And I think that is warranted before
this type of action would be taken in this very unusual circumstance.
But as the Senator said, it is coming to a head very quickly. This
amendment was offered last week. The second-degree was also offered
last week. So we are trying to have a clear plan, certainly, before we
get into a situation which could be very long term, with very dire
consequences. And I think the full debate is what we are looking for,
not necessarily a cutoff, but certainly having all the facts before us
before we make such an important decision.
Mr. DORGAN. I would just point out, sending American men and women
into harm's way is something I think no President wants to do. We've
had ill-fated incursions and actions taken by Republican Presidents and
Democratic Presidents alike. The perfection of foreign policy is not
the province of any one party.
I was sitting here--the Senator from Texas was talking about
President Reagan--and I was recalling that I was in Congress when
Americans in Beirut were killed by a truck bomb. There have been a lot
of circumstances where we had to learn exactly how and when we involve
ourselves. It is a lesson that is very hard to learn.
The folks who feel very strongly about American and NATO involvement
in Kosovo will make the case that if the situation is not contained
there, it will spread very quickly and we will have a very substantial,
broader problem on our hands in Europe. My colleague from Delaware is
waiting to speak. He knows a lot more about these issues and has been
involved with them much longer than the combined service of myself and
the Senator from Texas.
But I think all of us are probably nervous about these issues. We do
not know exactly what the right approach might be. I only rose today to
say that I am concerned about the timing of this debate. Just this
afternoon sensitive negotiations are occurring in Belgrade with Mr.
Milosevic. I hope Mr. Milosevic will hear at least one voice coming
from this Congress, perhaps many voices, saying that the slaughter in
that region of the world must stop--one way or the other.
With that point, let me yield the floor. I know my colleague, Senator
Biden, is waiting to speak.
Mr. President, I yield the floor.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Delaware.
Mr. BIDEN. I thank my friend.
I want to begin by saying to Senator Hutchison, I think she is
performing a valuable service. This debate needs to be undertaken. She
and I have had very different views on the Balkans from the very
outset. She, along with a majority of my colleagues, 3, 4, 5, 6 years
ago, told me that bombing would not work in Bosnia and we should not be
involved in Bosnia and they asked, ``Why are we getting involved?''
They were legitimate, real questions. And she could have turned out to
be as right, though I think she and others have proved to be wrong.
No one knew then. I could not answer some of those questions then. I
could not answer in 1992, when I came back from Bosnia and there was
the report about what was happening in death camps, about the support
of Milosevic across the Drina, with the VJ involved with the Serbs in
Bosnia. I could not prove or convince people that there were massive
massacres that had taken place and would be taking place. I could not
convince anyone--either NATO or the President initially--that the
longer we waited, the more the situation would deteriorate, and the
harder it would be to put back together.
But the question I was always asked then is the one I am asked now as
a vocal supporter of using force, along with NATO, to bomb Milosevic;
and that is, people say to me now, ``Well, Biden, tell me what the last
step is. You tell me the first step now. Tell me what the last step is.
You've got to have an end game here, Biden. If you're talking to the
President of committing to a lift-and-strike policy in Bosnia''--that
was 6 years ago, or more than that now, 7 years ago--``you've got to be
able to tell us, if you lift the embargo and you engage in airstrikes,
what happens?'' The following are the contingencies--if you list them,
they are all reasonable questions.
I say to my friend, the Presiding Officer and former Governor of
Ohio, the truth of the matter is the world has changed so fundamentally
that this calculus of what the last step will be is no longer relevant,
especially if we try to answer it before the first step is taken. It
leads to a policy of paralysis.
I remember arguing then with a man I had great admiration for then
and do now, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Colin
Powell. I remember him making the argument that unless we could submit
front-end to put 300,000 troops in Bosnia, then we shouldn't put
anybody in there. My argument was then and it is now that that thinking
is an absolute policy for paralysis. I guarantee you that the world we
are entering in the 21st century doesn't lend itself to that kind of
calculus.
When there were two superpowers and we decided whether or not to go
into Czechoslovakia when the Prague Spring was crushed, or when we
decided whether or not we were going to invade the counteroffensive in
Hungary when the Russian tanks rolled in, the calculus then was pretty
clear. We could say if we responded, then there was a likely
probability the Soviet Union would respond to our response, and there
would be a likely possibility this would lead to World War III.
It was a reasonable calculus. We could do a cost-benefit analysis and
ask if the cost of involvement was worth the possible payoff. And we do
this balance, this calculus. We did this under Democrats and
Republicans for 50 years and did it pretty darn well. Indeed, we won
the cold war.
We are dealing with a different world now. We are not dealing with a
group of people who are essentially cautious, who are part of a great
empire, and who had scores of divisions along the Fulda Gap ready to
roll into Western Europe if, in fact, war broke out. We are dealing now
with a group of tin-armed dictators--malevolent, dangerous dictators.
In Iraq we are dealing with a man named Saddam Hussein. I heard when
I urged, along with others, that we should bomb Saddam Hussein, ``If
you bomb Saddam Hussein, what is the second, third, fourth and fifth
step you are likely to take?'' We couldn't say then because these guys
don't operate under the same rational basis that we do. They are
cunning. They are smart. But they have fewer cards to play, and their
cards are less obvious.
I approach things a little differently these days. I have been a
Senator for 27 years, and I have been involved in foreign policy,
deeply involved, for the bulk of that time here. I approach it this way
now: Do we know what will happen if there is inaction? What happens if
we don't act?
In Iraq, if we don't act, we know for certain Saddam Hussein acquires
weapons of mass destruction. We know this because he has used poison
gas before. We know he has used chemical weapons. We know he has
invaded other
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countries. We know that he has been willing to sacrifice tens of
thousands of his people in a war with Iran. So we know where this guy
is likely to go if we do nothing.
We have a different calculus now. In a superpower world, the calculus
involved fairly cautious actors. We did not have Russian troops
invading Latin America. We did not have Russian troops, in the wake of
the Cuban missile crisis, storming into Cuba. We did not have Russians
looking for opportunities to have a Russian soldier confronting an
American soldier. It was a pretty cautious group of folks we dealt
with. Dangerous, bad, an evil empire, but pretty cautious.
How about today? What is the downside of not acting? I will argue in
a moment that it is immense. It is immense and it is clear, as clear as
anything you can prognosticate in international affairs.
We must remember that we are a European power. Whenever I am asked
why we would consider keeping 4,000-7,000 troops in Bosnia to protect
100,000 people from being massacred, I respond by saying that for 54
years we have kept as many as 365,000 troops in Europe to prevent the
subjugation of people. We now have 100,000 soldiers currently deployed
in that theater. Why is the idea of using 2,000-4,000 of them to keep
people of Kosovo from being subjugated and massacred such a radical
intellectual breakthrough?
Were the United States of America not deeply involved in the affairs
of Europe, how many in this Chamber think Europe would be able to avoid
the instability that has characterized it for 300 years? Who is going
to step to the fore? France? England? Germany? They are all great
nations, all great allies, but they suffer from disabilities we do not.
They have lived on the continent for an eternity. They have old and
deep animosities and differences and allegiances. All of Europe has a
history of dealing with Serbs and Moslems, Albanians, Kosovars,
Bosniacs, Croats, and it affects significantly their latitude.
What might happen were America to leave? Ask the French whether they
would like to see us pull up stakes and leave Europe, bring the boys
and the women home. Ask anyone who has spent a lot of time dealing with
European affairs what happens if the United States disengages.
As a student of history and a participant in history, I ask whether
America has ever been able to keep its distance from an unstable
Europe. Lucky Lindbergh thought it was a good idea. A lot of other
people who were more deeply involved in the conduct of foreign affairs
thought it was a good idea. This questions represents an historic
isolationism versus internationalism debate we have had in this country
for over 200 years. Internationalists are characterized as
adventuresome by their critics, and isolationists are characterized as
narrow and self-interested by their critics. But it is a healthy, long-
term debate.
My friend asks whether or not I would be happy to yield for
questions. I am always happy to yield for questions from the Senator
from Pennsylvania. I am not always able to answer them, but if he has a
question, I am happy to yield.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. President, I broach this subject gingerly, as we
have shared many hours together on the train ride from Washington to
Wilmington, where he departs. He should go to Philadelphia, but he gets
off at Wilmington. I sent the Senator a note, as he was in the middle
of his discourse and I would not want to interrupt him if he chose to
proceed with the line he had. However, there are a number of subjects
that I think would be useful to discuss with the distinguished Senator
from Delaware because he and I have discussed foreign policy, as well
as many other subjects, on many occasions. We have agreed on many
subjects--not always--and on many of our judgments.
The first subject that is on my mind is on the use of force in
Kosovo. Specifically, the level of public understanding and support
which is present at the moment. Senator Biden and I, along with 29
others, attended a meeting in the Oval Office on Friday to discuss the
situation in Kosovo. The general concern uniformly present, was the
level of public understanding of this issue and the level of public
support, and the question of how much public support we needed in order
to undertake these airstrikes. That would be the first subject on which
I would be very interested in the views of the Senator from Delaware.
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, I will be happy to respond.
I think the Senator and I agree that there has hardly been any public
knowledge or discussion of Kosovo. One of the reasons I am speaking on
this matter is that I feel obliged to lay out the background on this
issue: what is going on, what is at stake, why we must act, and the
consequences of our action. I agree with what is implicit in the
Senator's question: The American public has not been given sufficient
facts to allow them to be informed as to whether or not the course of
action the President wants to take is, in fact, wise.
I was telling my staff as I walked over here that, this weekend, I
came out of a 5 o'clock mass, and a friend of mine--a very informed
fellow, who is, I think, a supporter--pulled me aside on the steps of
the church and said, ``Joe, look, you may be right, and I tend to trust
your judgment in foreign policy; but I have tried my best to read
everything I could.'' I listened, and he used this phrase: ``I listen
to MacNeil/Lehrer Newshour every night, and I am waiting to hear
somebody explain to me this deal in Kosovo. I know you spent a lot of
time, Joe, on the Bosnia thing, but isn't this different? Explain it to
me.''
Then, the Wednesday before, I was at a St. Patrick's Day function
where we raised money for a fund in the name of a deceased mayor, and a
very intelligent fellow, a graduate of Annapolis named Healy, a
premiere builder in our State, said, ``Joe, I'm a Republican''--I hope
I am not going to get him in trouble--``but I've been liking you for a
while. Joe, for God's sake, don't go down this bombing route.'' Then I
started to explain some things to him and didn't change his mind, but
he said, ``I didn't know that.''
These are two illustrations, and I think you could probably canvas
the gallery here and ask them how much they have heard about Kosovo and
what do they know, and whether they believe what we are apparently
about to undertake makes any sense. The very sure answer to your short
question is that, no, the public is not sufficiently informed.
At our recent meeting at the White House, you will recall that I, and
I think the Senator from Pennsylvania and others, stood up repeatedly
and said, ``Mr. President, ultimately, you must educate the public.''
The President told us that in his first news conference he was going to
lead with Kosovo.
But I have said to him and to the national security adviser, as well,
that I believe the President has to address the Nation. I think the
President should go on television at prime time, and take a half hour
and literally, with a map and a pointer, sit there and say: This is
Kosovo, this is why it is important, this is what happens if we don't
act. When we act, if we do, we think we will bring about the following
result. American forces probably will be killed, but possibly not. None
were in Bosnia, but this is a much more sophisticated air defense
system in possession of the VJ. They are much more sophisticated
militarily than we faced anywhere with a bombing campaign in Bosnia,
and it is possible that American forces will be hurt.
Mr. SPECTER. If the Senator would yield for a follow-up question,
when the Senator from Delaware spoke at the meeting last Friday, he
referred to the issue of the likelihood of casualties. When I had an
opportunity to speak, I did, too. We both made the same point, although
you made yours with more emphasis, which is not uncharacteristic.
I suggested to the President----
Mr. BIDEN. I will take that as a compliment.
Mr. SPECTER. It is a compliment.
I suggested to the President that he be very direct on the problems
and the risks, because if there is to be public understanding, the
public ought to be informed about the risks.
When the Senator from Delaware spoke, and he has repeated it today so
it is not something I am telling out of
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a quasi-private meeting, he used the word ``probably,'' as opposed to
the word ``possibly.'' The Senator and others including myself all
emphasized the point that there had to be public awareness as to what
was going on in Kosovo.
The President has made a start. He led off his news conference with
the topic, but he did not give a 30-minute speech in detail. That would
be a short speech considering the complexity of this subject. This
which raises the question as to what is the level of public
understanding, which I think is a very important factor in letting me
go to a second subject, if I may.
The first part of this is hypothetical. If the President knew he
would get an affirmative vote in a resolution from Congress on the use
of force in Kosovo would he be wise to seek it? Would it strengthen his
hand to have an affirmative vote? I, as the Senator from Delaware, do
not like to deal with hypotheticals, but we have to on some occasions.
So I ask my colleague about his view as to whether the President would
welcome an affirmative vote if he knew he would get one, and would his
hand be strengthened if he had congressional authorization before he
took military action.
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, I will respond by saying two things. I will
answer the second part of his question first, which is very easy.
Clearly, his hand would be strengthened if he had one.
Second, the first part of the question: Would President support it?
I also said in my statement to the President and our colleagues that
I believe the Congress should--should--be confronted with a specific
piece of legislation authorizing the use of force. I think it is
constitutionally wise and politically necessary that be done.
Mr. President, such a congressional vote will spark the very debate
on this floor that I think is needed to further inform the American
public about what is at stake.
By the way, I called the White House after we had our meeting with
the President and reiterated that I hoped he would send up a
resolution. He did not. So I wrote one. I was prepared to attempt to
amend Senator Hutchison's amendment. But, in the meantime, as is his
prerogative, the majority leader came in and offered a second-degree
amendment to Senator Hutchison's. So I now have no ability to amend her
amendment.
I am told that we are going to vote on cloture. If we get cloture--
and I hope we will get cloture--then there will be an up-or-down vote
on the Lott-Smith amendment. That amendment says that the President
can't take any action in Yugoslavia until funds are authorized. I would
prefer having an up-or-down vote on that notion.
My resolution says, ``The President is authorized to use the United
States Armed Forces for the purposes of conducting air operations and
missile strikes against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Serbia and
Montenegro, pursuant to a decision of the North Atlantic Council Treaty
Organization in order to achieve the objectives in section 2.''
Through my resolution, I want us to step right up to our
constitutional task of deciding whether or not to authorize the use of
force.
I am the guy, by the way, who, in a very contentious meeting with
President Bush, insisted that we have hearings in the Foreign Relations
Committee on a resolution for the use of force in the Persian Gulf war.
I believe that is a congressional prerogative.
One might argue that the President doesn't need congressional
authorization. I think he does. In my view, a President is always
better equipped and better advised to go into a risky operation if the
American people know what is at stake.
My experience, Mr. President, is that Senators and Congressmen do not
like to be counted. Keep in mind that I have been here for six
Presidents. We in Congress don't like to be counted on issues of war
and peace--Democrats or Republicans--because if, in fact, the risky
business the President wishes to undertake succeeds, we all want to be
able to say, ``Good idea, Mr. President. I was with you.'' If it fails,
Congress wants the luxury of saying, ``I told him. He never should have
done that. Bad idea.''
I came out of the so-called Vietnam war generation. The only thing
most everybody in my generation can agree on is that a foreign policy
of this great nation cannot be sustained very long without the informed
consent of the American people.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. President, if the Senator will yield again, first, I
can confirm the contentious meeting. In fact, I can confirm that the
Senator from Delaware was present in many contentious meetings, not
only with President Bush but others. Those were the meetings where some
light was shed.
I was interested to note the generational difference by the Senator
from Delaware, and he indeed associated himself with the Vietnam war. I
would choose to associate myself with the Persian Gulf war.
Mr. BIDEN. I think that is appropriate.
Mr. SPECTER. I don't want to move to a generation older. I would like
to move to a generation younger.
When my colleague talked about submitting a resolution, he was very
artful, as he always is. He said it will be constitutionally wise and
politically necessary. Then he moved on to say that he believes the
President has a constitutional duty, although an argument could be made
on the other side. As usual, the Senator from Delaware anticipated the
next line of inquiry as to whether this military action is an act of
war. I believe this is a subject which really could use some
elaboration and some discussion between not only the Senator from
Delaware and myself but others in this not totally filled Chamber.
When the Senator from Delaware refers to the pending amendment
offered by the Senator from Texas, Mrs. Hutchison, and the second-
degree amendment offered by the Senator from New Hampshire, Senator
Smith, I believe the Senator from Delaware will be interested to know
that the majority leader had looked for an approach where a substitute
might be offered by the leader of the Democrats and where a substitute
might be offered by Senator Lott.
It may well be that Senator Lott would be interested and perhaps
agreeable--obviously, I cannot speak for Senator Lott --to having the
Biden amendment proposed as he has articulated. There might be an
agreement by the majority leader, which I would certainly endorse, to
have an up-down vote without a two-stage procedure and without having
to go to a cloture vote.
For the people who are watching on C-SPAN II, a cloture vote means
that there would be a vote to try and limit the debate. It requires a
supermajority of 60. This would enable us to vote on the resolution,
however it is articulated.
There are three items on which I would like the response of the
Senator from Delaware. Let me name them and then come back to the one.
Let me name them in inverse order.
Should we have the vote strictly on a resolution without a two-step
procedure, as the Senator from Delaware articulates it?
Question No. 2: What are the considerations?
What is the argument that he doesn't have to come to Congress, that
we are not implicating a constitutional requirement for congressional
authorization to undertake this military action, if it is an act of
war?
Let me deal with the most immediate question; that is this business
of a cloture vote. I am, frankly, a little surprised to see the
necessity to go to a cloture vote, although I do not question anybody
who seeks to. I really do question this particular cloture vote. It
might be something that is worth discussing, whether it is appropriate
to have a filibuster over the issue of the use of force. A matter of
this magnitude which involves a Constitutional authority, separation of
powers, a provision of the Constitution of which there is none any more
important.
So let me specify the question for the consideration of the Senator.
Is it appropriate for a filibuster to be staged to bar the Senate from
voting on whether to authorize or deny the President authority to use
force?
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, let me be precise. It is legally
permissible but unwise. Let me explain what I mean.
I think the reason for the cloture vote is not because the majority
leader expects anyone to filibuster. It is a tool
[[Page S3045]]
that he has learned and has sharpened and honed very well to gain
control and maintain control of the agenda and provide for the
inability of anyone to amend whatever he wishes us to vote on. That is
what this is about.
This has nothing to do with anyone filibustering. Indeed, I have not
heard a single person suggest a filibuster. It has to do with the
leader using, skillfully, as he does, the tools to be able to control
the agenda of the Senate and determine what we will vote on, how long
we will debate, and if we will debate.
If the Lott-Smith amendment prevails and is attached to the
supplemental, I predict that the entire supplemental will fail. If that
happens we will never have any action on Kosovo or the supplemental for
the near term. That is my guess.
There is some confusion in the House, because they thought, as the
President thought, that there would be an agreement between the
Kosovars and the Serbs as a consequence of the meetings in France. They
concluded that they should debate whether or not we would place
American forces on the ground, as offered by the President, if there
was a peace agreement.
But there is no peace agreement. So someone introduced an amendment--
a freestanding bill on the House side--thinking they could pass a
prohibition on the use of any American forces to implement any peace
agreement signed. That was voted down.
Again, the public and a lot of our colleagues are not adequately
informed on this. The headlines when the House voted were: House
Supports Use of American Forces In Kosovo. That is not quite true. The
House said it would permit a deployment in a permissive environment.
Now we are going to vote in the Senate on something completely
different, something that may produce a very ambiguous result. The
Lott-Smith amendment bars all funding for the purpose of conducting
military operations by Armed Forces of the United States in Serbia and
Montenegro.
What does that mean? Does that mean that, under our Constitution, if
this passes with the supermajority necessary to overcome a sure
presidential veto, that airstrikes are not permissible because bombs
cost money and they are going to be dropped on parts of Serbia? I
suspect it does. Rather than take such an ambiguous vote, we should not
shirk our responsibility here.
Mr. SPECTER. Will the Senator yield for an additional question?
Mr. BIDEN. I sure will.
Mr. SPECTER. The Senator has gone through a discussion as to what
Senator Lott may have intended by the cloture motion, by the amendments
pending, and by--as the Senator from Delaware characterizes it--our
arcane procedure.
Mr. BIDEN. I could be wrong, but that is my reading of it.
Mr. SPECTER. It may be we can move ahead and structure a freestanding
resolution which has been discussed, maybe two resolutions, one by
Senator Daschle on behalf of the Democrats, one by Senator Lott on
behalf of the Republicans, and vote.
But let me come to the question that I think is by far the most
important, which the Senator from Delaware had broached. That is the
question about whether there is a constitutional requirement for
congressional authorization.
As I look at the proposed military action, what has been described
constitutes an act of war. The Constitution gives the President
extensive authority, as Commander in Chief, but gives the Congress the
sole authority to involve the United States of America in war--to have
a declaration of war. That constitutional authority by Congress has
been very, very significantly eroded.
Korea is perhaps the best example. I had occasion recently to pick up
Margaret Truman's biography on President Truman and, seeing at least
her version as to what President Truman faced in 1950, I wondered if
the positions I have taken have been correct. But I stand by them, that
there ought not to be the use of force without congressional
authorization. The use of force was authorized prior to the Gulf war in
a historic debate which occurred on this floor back on January 10, 11
and 12 of 1991.
I agree with the distinguished Senator from Delaware when he says the
Members of Congress like to avoid votes on these issues. We faced an
imminent airstrike last February in Iraq, February of 1998, and we
chose not to decide the issue. At that time airstrikes were not made.
In December of 1998, the Congress had ample opportunity to decide the
question about airstrikes which did occur in mid-December over Iraq.
Again, the Congress decided not to take up the issue. When we took up
the issue of use of force in 1991, it came in a very unusual procedure,
where the Senator from Iowa, Senator Harkin, raised a procedural point
the day we swore in Senators who were elected or reelected in November
of 1990, so we took up the question.
So my view--and I have expressed it a number of times on this
subject--is that however the matter is resolved, it ought to be
resolved by the Congress. This subject has not really had the
appropriate kind of discussion and debate.
So, I now ask the question in a specific form to the Senator from
Delaware. What are the arguments in favor of the President's position
not to require congressional authority? Does the Senator from Delaware
agree with the proposition that I have articulated, that the
Constitution does require Congressional authority before military force
is used in bombing in Kosovo?
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, you can tell the Senator from Pennsylvania
and I are friends because I am happy to have his extended questions,
because his questions always shed light on the subject.
I agree with everything he said so far. Let me be specific. When
there is a Republican President, the Republicans argue the President
doesn't need congressional authority. When there is a Democratic
President, all of a sudden the Democrats support the President's
unilateral war-making power.
Let me give you the argument that could be made by scholars as to why
the President has the constitutional authority to act absent our
approval.
They would argue that our actions in Kosovo are not an act of war.
But as the Senator knows, the war clause does not require an act of
war; it requires a use of force, a use of force that constitutes an
offensive action. They would argue that this is defensive in nature.
Presidents do that all the time. Remember why President Reagan invaded
Grenada. To save medical students. That was the reason. That was the
thin reed upon which he held his entire rationale, because everyone
acknowledges that if it is an emergency or it is to defend American
citizens and their property, it could be done.
In Kosovo, the argument could be made that there are U.S. personnel
on the ground who would be in harm's way. If we do not take action, the
roughly 40,000 Serbian troops near Pristina could threaten the small
number of American forces in Macedonia. I can picture the argument
being put together by the President's legal counsel. Because the
Americans forces in Macedonia are now in jeopardy, there was a
requirement to act to save them.
There also could be an argument made that airpower would be used for
the purpose of protecting American personnel in Belgrade. The President
could argue that Milosevic, with a long history of genocidal acts and
acts of brutality, is about to move on American personnel. That is the
nature of the argument that could be made.
There is also an argument, which I think is totally specious, that
this qualifies as an emergency. The Founding Fathers, in this Senator's
view, clearly contemplated emergency situations where the President
would have to use force. That is why they gave Congress the power to
``declare'' war rather than ``make'' war. They did not want to tie the
President's hands in the context of an emergency.
Another argument being made, which is not accurate but is made all
the time by people justifying Presidential action in an area of making
war or using force, is that there are 200 years of precedent. They will
list hundreds of times where American forces were used without prior
congressional authorization. It is a specious argument, in my view, but
it is one that has credibility only as a consequence of its repetition.
That is the other argument that will be used.
[[Page S3046]]
People will cite Libya. Did the President have a right to go in? I
found Senator Hutchison's rendition of history fascinating, because her
memory of Reagan and my memory of Reagan were fundamentally different.
I don't mean it critically. I mean it factually. She said Reagan never
put American forces in harm's way. Well, hell, they flew all the way
from England, all the way across the Iberian Peninsula, and bombed the
living devil out of Libya. Was that a declaration of war? Most Senators
said it basically worked. It cowed the Libyan dictator for a while, and
no American got hurt.
I cite that not to be critical of anything President Reagan did, but
to point out that we often hear the precedence argument used. They say
the Congress didn't do anything then. Therefore, that makes it
constitutional. Yet there is a seamless fabric to the Constitution.
Action, no matter how often repeated, cannot make an unconstitutional
undertaking constitutional. That argument has been put forward by this
administration and at least six other Presidents.
I might point out that the Lott proposal, the very thing we are going
to vote on, may also be unconstitutional. It bars Defense Department
funds for the purpose of conducting military operations by the Armed
Forces of the United States. The only exceptions to the funding
restrictions are (1) intelligence activities, including surveillance;
(2) the provision of logistics support; and (3) any measure necessary
to defend U.S. Armed Forces against immediate threat. Note that this
third exception would give the President the excuse I just mentioned.
So the Lott proposal is flawed in two respects. First, as a
constitutional matter, it is unnecessary. The Constitution already bars
offensive military action by the President unless it is congressionally
authorized. If Congress adopts the Lott amendment, it would imply that
the President has carte blanche to take offensive action anywhere
unless Congress makes a specific statement to the contrary.
We are telling the President he can't do something that
the Constitution already says he can't do. Then we build in exceptions,
exceptions that give him authority beyond what, in my view and the view
of most constitutional scholars, he is entitled to as a matter of
constitutional law.
Let me repeat the exceptions he builds. The amendment provides for
providing intelligence activities. As the Senator knows, that can
involve U.S. personnel. They may be all sitting up in Rhein-Main Air
Force Base, or sitting in Italy. They may be on AWACS aircraft at a
distance that can't be shot down. I do not know. It also could include
spotters. It can include people on the ground. It could include U.S.
military aircraft flying in Kosovo airspace, but not participating in
the actual strikes.
Secondly, it provides for a provision of logistical support. That
could include logistical support in the theater. If I were the
President's lawyer on this one, I would say, Mr. President, don't worry
about this sucker passing. You are OK. You can work this one out. You
don't have to fight Congress on whether using force is constitutional.
With this amendment, you can do what you want.
Thirdly, it excludes any measure necessary to defend forces against
an immediate threat. Well, I guarantee you the argument will be made
that once NATO decides to move, all those forces in Macedonia are in
harm's way. Not only there, but American forces a little bit across the
Drina River in Bosnia would also be in harm's way.
I guarantee you that the argument will be made, if this were to
become law, that the Lott amendment gives the President the authority
to bomb and use force.
Mr. SPECTER. If the Senator will yield on this point.
Mr. BIDEN. Sure.
Mr. SPECTER. When the Senator goes over the sections, they are so
comprehensive as to make any prohibition meaningless.
Mr. BIDEN. I think so.
Mr. SPECTER. Which is one of the grave difficulties of having a
resolution which prohibits Presidential action, but tries to
accommodate to some special circumstance. In the articulation of the
circumstances, it renders it absolutely meaningless and gives such
latitude to the President, which may well be more latitude than he has
under the Constitution.
I come back for purposes of a question, which I am about to ask, what
the Senator from Delaware has had to say about the many occasions where
force has been used, where acts of war have been undertaken. I agree
totally that simply a recitation of those occasions does not establish
a constitutional norm. One of the grave difficulties is that as the
Congress sits silent, the Senate sits silent again and again and again.
There has been such a total erosion of the constitutional requirement
that the Congress has the authority to declare war. The situation as to
emergency, which is used so frequently to justify Presidential action,
is totally absent here.
This may be the clearest kind of case which we have seen where there
has been time for a Congress to deliberate, to consider, and to act. I
believe that the missile strikes in December of 1998 against Iraq
should have required prior congressional authorization. But an argument
can be made, tenuous as it is, that we are still operating under the
resolution for the use of force from January of 1991. I think it is
wrong, but one can make that argument.
When you talk about Libya, you may talk about the element of
surprise, injecting some element of emergency. I do not want to get
involved as to whether that is justifiable or not. But if you take the
present circumstance, where the situation of Kosovo has been building
up for days, weeks, and months, and where there has been ample
opportunity for the issue to be considered by the Congress and where
the President has not taken the case to the American people, and where
debate in the Senate only draws three Senators--we are honored the
Senator from Virginia, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee,
has joined us.
I join what the Senator from Delaware has had to say about the debate
we had on the War Powers Act in 1983, where I asked then-chairman of
the Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Percy, a series of questions
as to whether Korea was an act of war, or Vietnam was an act of war,
developing at that time a requirement for constitutional authorization.
We then had a very spirited debate with the Senator from Virginia,
the Senator from Delaware, the then-Senator from Georgia, Senator Nunn,
and many others on January 10 and 11 in 1991. That is the kind of
consideration we ought to have now.
I believe it is possible we can articulate a resolution like the
resolution of the distinguished Senator from Delaware so you do not
have the prohibition and all these exceptions clauses where we do not
know what we are talking about. If you have a resolution denying the
use of funds and then exceptions, it is totally unintelligible.
If we have to delay the budget resolution, this matter is of
sufficient importance that we can do the budget resolution next week.
We might impede upon the recess. We can get that done and have the kind
of debate we need.
I thank my colleague from Delaware for yielding and for the erudition
which he has brought to this subject, as he teaches constitutional law
and talks about this substantive matter to acquaint the American people
as to what the constitutional law requires. I yield back to him so he
can go on with his speech. I want to hear the substance as to why he
thinks we ought to be undertaking these military strikes as a matter of
national security, as a matter of national policy, as a matter of vital
national interest, especially in the context where he says that the
American people are not really informed, they are not really in a
position to be supportive of this matter at this time.
Mr. BIDEN. I thank the Senator. I will respond----
Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, I wonder if I can interpose a question to
both my colleagues.
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, I would be delighted to do that, but I want
to warn anybody who comes to the floor, I came to the floor to deliver
what I thought to be, if not enlightened, a comprehensive rationale for
why I think we should act. I am happy to stay here as long as possible,
and I am happy to delay giving that speech, but as long as the Senator
realizes that when we finish our discussion, it is going to take me 20
to 25 minutes to deliver this speech.
[[Page S3047]]
One of the arguments here that no one has laid out sufficiently--I am
not sure I am capable of it--is why we should do what the President is
seeking to do, why we should do what NATO has voted to do, and why we
should be either for or against doing that.
We did discuss here a very important subject about whether or not it
is constitutionally permissible to use force absent congressional
consent.
All I am suggesting is that the President and those of us who support
the use of airpower in conjunction with NATO should lay out why that
action is in America's interest. What are the costs, what are the
risks, what are the benefits, and why should we do it? Those who
disagree with our position should lay out in one place, where people
can go to the Record, why they think we should not do that. There are
legitimate arguments in opposition beyond the constitutional arguments
in opposition to the use of force in Kosovo.
As long as the Senator understands that, I am happy to yield for
questions. I do not want to keep him here to have to listen to my
speech. When we conclude this colloquy, if I do not lose the floor, I
will be delivering that speech.
I am happy to yield for a question.
Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, I am going to take 1\1/2\ minutes to pose
a question.
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, the Senator should take as much time as the
Senator wants.
Mr. WARNER. Again, we all draw on our experiences in life. I served
overseas in Korea with an air unit, as a combat officer, I might say.
Right now, I am trying to put myself--and I hope my colleagues put
themselves--into a cockpit and we are strapped in, as these young
Americans are right now, strapped in waiting for an order, which could
come in the next hour.
Having met with the President the other day with my two colleagues
here on the floor, I am convinced that he is going to join other NATO
leaders and give that order at an appropriate time if the current
mission of diplomacy by another courageous man, Mr. Holbrooke, is not
successful.
I hope we can start to focus pretty quickly, not so much on all the
historical parts of this important issue, like sovereignty and
constitutionality, but on what we are going to do to support our
military. It seems to me that this body at this time has to look itself
in the eye and say these men and women are about to fly, about to take
risks with our allies, and I think it is essential that the Congress of
the United States be on record as supporting them. I will address that
in such opportunity as I may have following my distinguished
colleague's speech.
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, in response to the Senator's question, for
technical purposes, I agree with him 100 percent. I am an admirer of
the Senator from Virginia, in no small part because he was in combat,
because he was in the military and because he knows, I suspect, what it
feels like sitting there, figuratively speaking, strapped in waiting
for an order.
I am always very reluctant to argue a position that may get somebody
killed, may get somebody maimed, may get someone put in a prison camp.
And men like Senator Kerrey, a Congressional Medal of Honor winner, and
Senator McCain, who argued against my position for years on Bosnia--not
Kosovo; Bosnia--when men who are brave like that, men like Danny
Inouye, Senator Chafee, and Senator Hollings, my seatmate, when they
have questions about this, I take it very, very seriously.
Mr. WARNER. If the Senator would allow me to make one clarification
to your statement. I want to make it clear I said I served with others
who were in combat. I was a ground officer who helped strap them in,
who checked their radios and their communications. Occasionally, I did
get to ride along with them in a back seat, but I never put myself in
the combat category with those brave men who, day after day, were
strapped in to fly combat. But I lived with them, slept there in the
same tents, ate in the same mess, used to go up and observe what they
had to do.
But let me tell you, I think we have to put ourselves in that cockpit
right now as if we were qualified to be in combat and show that the
Congress of the United States wants to support them. I think that is
absolutely essential.
Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, I did not mean to misrepresent. I have
great respect for the Senator. I know he was Secretary of the Navy. He
also is more informed in a personal sense about this--not, I am
reluctant to say, not the issue; I think I am as informed as he is, or
quite frankly, as anybody on the floor--but in terms of all that goes
into a young man's or woman's head as they are about to take off the
deck of that carrier or off that piece of concrete, or whatever the
mission.
But let me suggest that I will lay out for you why I personally am
willing to do something that I am not happy about doing; and that is,
vote to support asking the brave young women and men of our military,
in this case the fliers--Navy, Marine, Air Force--to risk their lives.
And it is a real risk. There is a probability someone is going to get
hurt.
Mr. WARNER. I look forward to listening very tentatively to hopefully
most of it. I think it is important we do lay out the case. I will
allude to, I think, much the same case that you do. But I do believe it
is essential to this Senate to pass on the Smith amendment, if that is
what is before us at this time; and then it seems to me that someone
could possibly come on with a resolution like, as I understand, the
Senator from Delaware, which clearly focuses on the issue: Do we or do
we not support the use of force by the U.S. military together with our
allies in this frightful situation in Kosovo?
Mr. BIDEN. Thank you.
Mr. President, let me begin my more formal remarks by referring to
the concluding remarks I made on this floor on October 14, 1998,
immediately after the agreement between Ambassador Holbrooke and the
President of Yugoslavia, Slobodan Milosevic, was made public.
I said at that time:
[W]e must never again allow racist thugs like Milosevic to
carry out their outrages while the alliance dawdles.
Referring to the just concluded agreement, I further stated:
[W]e must brook no more opposition from Milosevic on its
implementation. To use a domestic American term, we must
adopt a policy of ``zero tolerance'' with [this] Yugoslav
bully.
Many of us had hoped that the mistakes that enabled the
Bosnian horrors to take place would teach us a lesson.
Unfortunately, we have repeated many of those errors and
have thereby allowed Milosevic and his storm troopers to
repeat their atrocities in Kosovo.
Twice is enough. There must not be a third time.
I do not cite that to suggest any air of erudition, Mr. President. I
cite that to say my position--right or wrong--has been consistent since
the day this agreement has been signed.
Mr. President, from the bottom of my heart, I regret to report that
there has been a third time. There have been more massacres, have been
violations of the agreement, and both the massacres and the violations
are continuing as we speak; indeed, as I speak at this moment. Let's
look at the disgraceful record.
Everybody forgets that we are operating in the context of Holbrooke-
Milosevic agreement, an agreement that has been signed on by our allies
and our friends. The President has been saying for the last month and a
half that if Milosevic does not sign on to an agreement, assuming that
the Kosovars do sign on, we will bomb. For an unusual thing, NATO
already acted. NATO got together and debated this issue. And NATO
members all voted unanimously to use airpower if in fact one side or
the other did not--did not--agree. So what happened here is, there is
an agreement. The context of this whole debate is that agreement in
1998.
Immediately following the Holbrooke-Milosevic agreement, machinery
was set in place to prevent a recurrence of massacres that had already
occurred in Kosovo and in Bosnia the previous years and to move toward
an interim agreement on the future status of Kosovo.
On October 25, 1998, the Yugoslav Government and the North Atlantic
Treaty Organization fleshed out the Holbrooke-Milosevic agreement,
authorizing exact numbers--exact numbers--of troops, the so-called VJ,
and Serbian Interior Police, so-called MUPs, who are a bunch of thugs,
would
[[Page S3048]]
be able to be in Kosovo province. The agreement also specified the
garrisons to which they were to be restricted.
That was signed by NATO and Milosevic, and a cease-fire took effect,
monitored by unarmed NATO aircraft, and international compliance
verifiers were allowed into Kosovo.
Like his ideological model earlier in this century, Milosevic has
treated most of this agreement as a ``scrap of paper.'' The Yugoslav
Government has flagrantly violated the limits stipulated in the October
agreement. Rather than the 12,500 regular army troops and the 6,500
special police called for--a total of 19,000--there are presently
40,000 Yugoslav soldiers and Serbian special police forces in the
province of Kosovo, in clear violation of the agreement.
As for the cease-fire called for--it is a total joke. Milosevic was
afraid to refuse entry of the international verifiers or to shoot down
NATO planes. So as a result, we have a documented ongoing pattern of
warfare, both against units of the Kosovo Liberation Army, but
especially against Kosovar civilians.
There have been countless massacres, but the most widely publicized
one was perpetrated by the Serbs on January 15, 1999, in the village of
Racak. There 45 Kosovar Albanian civilians--women and children--were
slaughtered. The Serbs, of course, asserted that they all had been KLA
fighters who had either been killed in combat or shot while fleeing.
Unfortunately for the Serbs, a Finnish-led team of forensic experts
that examined the bodies reported unequivocally that the victims had
been forced to kneel and had been executed by being riddled with small-
arms fire.
They got down on their knees. These bullet wounds were in the back of
their heads. They were executed, just like they did in Bosnia, just
like Hitler did in World War II.
Just yesterday, Mr. President, 10 Kosovars were massacred by Serbs in
the village of Srbica. During the past 10 days, the Yugoslav Army and
the Serbian special forces have gone on the offensive, seizing the high
ground above roads and railroads, moving in their most modern weaponry,
including M-72 and M-84 tanks, and conducting a search and destroy
mission against Kosovar villages suspected of harboring KLA
sympathizers.
The net result is a new flood of refugees so great that their number
is now approaching 450,000--450,000 the number reached last fall.
I might remind my colleagues, the only difference was, last fall when
it reached that number, folks were able to flee to the mountains
because they were not full of snow, they were able to hide. One of the
reasons for the urgency that was being argued in the negotiations by
Mr. Holbrooke was--and we all seem to agree--was that winter was coming
and all these folks would die. Well, it is winter there now.
Mr. President, the tragic events of Kosovo have a clear historical
causality which I will summarize now. Kosovo is considered by Serbs to
be the heartland of their civilization. There, in the year 1389, on the
so-called Blackbirds Field near present-day Pristina, the medieval
Serbian knights were defeated by the Ottoman Turks, which led to more
than five centuries of Turkish domination of the Balkans.
It was a courageous fight. They saved Christianity and the rest of
Europe, but the bottom line was, they lost. And the bottom line was
that the Balkans for 500 years were dominated by Turkey and many parts
became Moslem.
The Albanians, however, also claim Kosovo as their own and, in fact,
can trace their habitation there even further back than the south
Slavs, the Serbs.
As a result of the policies of the Communist dictator of the former
Yugoslavia, Marshal Tito--whom I had the interesting pleasure of having
lunch with in his private residence in Split, Yugoslavia, with now
deceased Ambassador Averell Harriman, one of the most interesting
encounters I ever had in my career--the former Yugoslavian dictator,
Marshal Tito.
In 1974, the Kosovar Albanians were granted the status of an
autonomous region within the Republic of Serbia because of this
history. Basically, the Albanians were allowed local control, while
border security and foreign relations remained under the control of
Belgrade. In the next 15 years, the percentage of Serbs in the Kosovo
population dropped from approximately one-quarter to less than one-
tenth. At the time this agreement was reached--this autonomy was
granted by Tito in 1974--one out of four people living in the province
of Kosovo were Serbs; three out of four were Albanians living within
Serbia. They were basically Moslem, and the others were Orthodox
Christians. Since that time, it has become 10-1; only 1 in 10 are
Serbs.
Now, this has occurred for several reasons: A much higher birth rate
among the Kosovar Albanians than among local Serbs; ``buyouts'' of many
Serbian homesteads by Kosovars, some of whom earned hard currency
abroad; and some harassment of Serbs by Kosovars, although nothing
approaching the ethnic cleansing that is now being carried out by the
Serbs.
Meanwhile, in Serbia proper, an ambitious young Communist politician
named Slobodan Milosevic engineered a coup against the communist
leadership of Serbia. He needed a vehicle to consolidate his power, and
the time-honored vehicle used by most rogues is rabid nationalism. He
needed to be able to spread his newly consolidated power to the Serb-
inhabited regions of Yugoslavia outside of Serbia. So in a famous
speech in 1989--he would have done proud any demagogue who has ever
arrived on the political scene, and I am not referring to anyone here,
I am referring to those folks who don't make it usually--in 1989, on
the 600th anniversary of the Battle of Blackbirds Field, to which I
earlier referred, Milosevic traveled to Kosovo and delivered a rabble-
rousing speech in which he promised that no Serb would ever be pushed
around by anyone again anywhere in the world, notwithstanding the fact
that it was a hard case to make that that was happening.
On March 23, 1989, without the consent of the people of Kosovo,
Milosevic amended the Constitution of Yugoslavia, revoking the
autonomous status that they had had for roughly the past 15 years.
The following year, the parliament and the government of Kosovo were
abolished by further unlawful amendments to the Constitution of
Yugoslavia.
A thoroughgoing purge of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo followed.
Thousands of hard-working citizens were summarily fired from their
civil service positions, and the Serbian Government denied funding to
basic institutions of Kosovo society.
It is absolutely necessary to note the reaction of the Kosovars to
these massive violations of their human and civil rights. What was that
reaction initially? Under the leadership of Dr. Rugova, the Kosovars--
and he is a Kosovar--the Kosovars set up a parallel, unofficial system
of governance. They set up schools, hospitals, and other institutions
that make society run. Mr. President, under Dr. Rugova's leadership,
the Kosovars held to a policy of nonviolence for nearly seven years. I
do not know any other example elsewhere of such self-restraint anywhere
in recent years.
The United States recognized that Kosovo was a tinderbox that could
explode at any time. For that reason, former President George Bush sent
a warning to Mr. Milosevic at Christmas 1992, the so-called Christmas
warning. Keep in mind, the Kosovars had not used violence; they were
still peacefully trying to piece together their society. On Christmas
of 1992, the three Senators in this Chamber at the moment were all here
at the time--not in the Chamber--and President Bush, a Republican
President, issued the Christmas warning that said the United States was
prepared to intervene militarily if Serbia attacked the ethnic
Albanians in Kosovo.
Mr. STEVENS. Will the Senator yield?
Mr. BIDEN. Yes.
Mr. STEVENS. Is that the quote from President Bush's statement?
Mr. BIDEN. No; it is not a quote; it is a paraphrase.
Mr. STEVENS. I urge the Senator to quote.
Mr. BIDEN. As a matter of fact, I am about to come to that quote.
President Bush's warning was contained in a letter delivered to
Milosevic and General Panic, the commander of the Yugoslavian Army. The
New York Times and the Associated
[[Page S3049]]
Press quoted Bush's letter as saying: ``In the event of conflict in
Kosovo caused by Serbian action, the United States will be prepared to
employ military force against the Serbians in Kosovo and in Serbia
proper.
Let me read it again: ``In the event of conflict in Kosovo caused by
Serbian action, the United States will be prepared to employ military
force against the Serbians in Kosovo and in Serbia proper.''
Perhaps because of this Christmas warning, Milosevic refrained from
an all-out military assault on the Kosovars, contenting himself with
the legal repression that I described earlier.
The Kosovars waited in vain for the West to help. They hoped that
their plight would be placed on the agenda of the Dayton peace
negotiations in November of 1995, but having been warned by Milosevic
that he would walk out if Kosovo were brought up, the West, under this
President, President Clinton, and our NATO allies, restricted the talks
to Bosnia and Herzegovina.
So, finally, in late 1996, armed Kosovar resistance began on a small
scale under the loosely organized Kosovo Liberation Army, abbreviated
UCK in Albanian, but as KLA in the West. Gradually, the KLA escalated
to larger attacks by February of 1998. Let me review the bidding again
here, and I will get the letter, or the news accounts quoting the
letter, if I can, for my friend from Alaska, and I will enter it into
the Record.
Now, what happened? In 1989, this genocidal leader of Yugoslavia,
named Milosevic, had seized power and attempted to consolidate Serbs
throughout the former Yugoslavia. He made a speech on the 600th
anniversary of Blackbirds Field near Pristina to enrage and bring up
the blood of every Serbian living in the region. It worked very well in
Bosnia. It got them going in Bosnia and, as well, in Kosovo. Then he,
under the Serb Constitution, by most accounts, unconstitutionally
amended the Constitution, taking away the autonomy that Tito had
granted to Kosovo in 1974. But even when that was done, the Albanian
Serbs did not use force or violence. They were headed by a guy named
Dr. Rugova, who said they would, by nonviolent means, attempt to
reestablish their societal institutions, allowing them their dignity
and their right to work.
In the meantime, Milosevic comes in and he heads down from Belgrade
and the orders are essentially: fire them all. Fire them all. All of
the civil service jobs were eliminated, all of the schools were shut
down, the language was not allowed, and so on. Still, the Kosovars did
not use force. Still, they attempted, through peaceful means, to regain
their autonomy. And with the help of President Bush--I can only surmise
this, I can't read Milosevic's mind, but knowing what a coward he is,
based on what he has done in the past, I expect that the Christmas
warning by President Bush kept him from using the force he wanted to.
Dr. Rugova came to me and others and said, ``Get us into Dayton.
While this is being discussed, get us on the agenda.'' We made a
mistake, in my view. We said, ``No; you are not on the agenda; this is
just about Bosnia. This is about Bosnia and nothing else.'' And so when
peaceful means began to fail, and had clearly failed in late 1996,
seven years later, the Kosovar resistance called the Kosovo Liberation
Army--the UCK or the KLA, whatever you would like to call it--began to
engage in larger attacks, a la the IRA.
Milosevic then saw an opportunity. Having been humiliated in his
aggressive wars against Slovenia in the spring of 1991, and Croatia in
the summer of 1995, and having seen the Bosnian Serb puppets routed in
the fall of 1995 and forced to accept a compromise settlement in
Dayton, the Yugoslav dictator needed another crisis to divert the
Serbian people's attention from the massive failure of his
authoritarian, Communist economic and political policies.
So what did he do? He did what is often done. He found a common
enemy. He appealed to this naked, rabid nationalism and used the
suppression of the KLA as a justification, as his vehicle, attempting
in the process to drive the ethnic Albanian population out of large
areas of Kosovo. What have been the results?
To date, approximately 2,000 Kosovar Albanians and Serbian civilians
have been killed. More than 400,000 Kosovar Albanians have been driven
from their homes, including tens of thousands during the past 10 days.
Thousands of homes in hundreds of villages in Kosovo have been razed to
the ground. One-quarter of Kosovo's livestock has been slaughtered and
10 percent of its arable land burned. A food blockade has been imposed
upon large segments of the Kosovar population.
The world has taken note of this. The United Nations Security Council
has passed two important resolutions--Nos. 1160 and 1199--in 1998,
decrying the repression and calling for an end to it. Milosevic
publicly agreed to the U.N. demands and has cynically continued his
state terrorism.
Mr. President, why should we be surprised by this? We saw it repeated
and repeated in Bosnia, until we had the nerve to act.
What is at stake for the United States in all of this? In the
interest of time, I will come back to the floor at a more appropriate
time to enlarge upon this. But I will say that our entire policy in
Europe since the end of World War II has been to promote stability
through the spread of democracy. In order to create the security
conditions for this development in Western Europe, we created NATO in
1949, and for 50 years this alliance has provided an umbrella under
which our allies have survived and prospered.
Since the end of the Cold War, it has been our policy to extend this
zone of stability eastward in Europe by three methods.
First, we have agreed to a well-conceived, measured enlargement of
NATO, which has already brought Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic
into the alliance.
Second, NATO has entered into partnerships with many countries in the
region, which in time will probably yield additional alliance members,
which also in the short run has created productive relationships with a
great power like Russia.
Third--and here is where Kosovo comes in--we have determined to
oppose directly the aggressive policies of demagogues like Milosevic
who are trying to foment ethnic and religious hatred.
We know, as NATO knows, that its credibility is on the line in
Kosovo. We have warned Milosevic countless times to halt his fascist
aggression. We have cooperated with our NATO allies, and with Russia,
in fashioning a fair interim settlement for Kosovo.
We know that if Milosevic's scorched-earth policy of ``ethnic
cleansing'' is allowed to continue, the inevitable result will be a
massive tide of refugees, which would destabilize fragile democracies
in Macedonia and Albania. We also know that Milosevic is itching for
the excuse to overthrow the democratic and reformist government of
Montenegro, which is a direct challenge to his authoritarian communist
rule in Yugoslavia.
We also know that the ultimate nightmare--which is not impossible by
any means--is a widening of the hostilities to include NATO members
Greece and Turkey, who have different interests in this outcome.
Mr. President, the national interests of the United States are
directly threatened by the continued aggressive actions of the Yugoslav
Government in Kosovo.
For that reason, Mr. President, I think we should do what I said
earlier, which is, introduce a resolution authorizing air operations,
in conjunction with the Activation Order voted on by the North Atlantic
Council of NATO.
I urge my colleagues to support that resolution.
I thank the Chair and yield the floor.
Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, I commend the majority leader and Senators
Hutchison and Smith for bringing this matter to the Senate floor today.
With fighting escalating in Kosovo, with the Serbs refusing to sign a
peace agreement, and with U.S. military air units, together with those
of our allies, poised to strike, it is important, if there is time, for
the Senate to address this situation.
Under most contingencies, the U.S. military should not be sent into
harm's way without the support of the American people and the Congress.
Our nation has learned, from recent contingencies that, without such
support,
[[Page S3050]]
when casualties occur, a clamor could begin to ``bring our troops
home.'' We witnessed that in Somalia; we could see that again in
Kosovo. Our military deserves our support. I say to my fellow Senators,
if you were sitting in a cockpit, ordered to carry out strikes against
the Serbian military, you would like to know that the Congress, the
elected representatives of the people, is with you, supporting your
mission and concerned for the risks you are taking.
I first visited Kosovo in August of 1990 on a delegation headed by
Senator Robert Dole. I commend this brave veteran for his mission to
the Balkan region in the past few weeks in the cause of peace. His
efforts contributed to the securing of signatures by the Kosovar
Albanian delegation on a peace agreement.
During my visit to Kosovo in 1990, I saw first-hand the oppression of
the Kosovar Albanians by the Serb authorities. I returned to the region
most recently in September of 1998, traveling through Kosovo with
Ambassador Christopher Hill and elements of a courageous international
observer group called KDOM.
Since last March we have all closely followed developments--indeed
the humanitarian tragedy--in this troubled region. And since last
September, when NATO first threatened the use of force against
Milosevic, NATO credibility has been on the line. We are now at a
defining moment in this crisis.
Since September, I have been outspoken in my support for the use of
U.S. ground troops as part of a NATO-led force to implement a peace
agreement that is in place relative to Kosovo. In my view, such a
military force is necessary--once a peace agreement is reached--if the
parties to the agreement are to have the confidence necessary to be
bound by the provisions of such a peace agreement. And I believe U.S.
participation in such a force is necessary if we are to maintain our
status as the leader of the NATO Alliance.
My greatest concern has been and continues to be that a deterioration
of the situation in Kosovo could undermine the modest gains we have
achieved in Bosnia--at a cost of over $8 billion to date to the
American taxpayer; and could lead to problems in neighboring Macedonia,
Montenegro, Albania, and perhaps Greece and Turkey.
In addition, I share with all Americans concern for the humanitarian
tragedy we have witnessed--are now witnessing--in that troubled land.
But what happens if a peace agreement remains elusive, which is now
the situation with which we are faced. It is one thing to deploy troops
into a permissive environment for the purpose of overseeing the
implementation of a peace agreement. It is quite another to use
military power--air--to compel a sovereign nation to sign an agreement
to end what is essentially an internal civil war.
There are many questions that must be addressed. The most important
question is, what happens if bombing does not succeed? There are very
few operations, historic examples, where air power alone has
succeeded in meeting our military objectives. Some have made the
argument here today that air strikes were the key to bringing the
Bosnian Serbs to the peace table in Dayton. I had the opportunity to
visit with two people last week who were intimately involved in the
Bosnia crisis--former British Defence Secretary Michael Portillo and
former U.N. High Representative in Bosnia, Carl Bildt. Both of these
men told me that air strikes were an important part, but not the
decisive factor in ending the fighting in Bosnia. History records that
the Croatian offensive against the Serbs, and the fact that the parties
were all exhausted from fighting were of equal significance to the
important air campaign by the United States and our allies. Today, that
is not the case in Kosovo--the parties there are, regrettably, ready to
fight.
My point is,--there is risk in relying on air strikes, alone, to stop
the fighting in this crisis. We must know what our next steps will be
and how far we are ready to go with other initiatives to stop the
fighting in Kosovo. If this first military action is taken--which in my
view this contingency is tantamount to an act of war--what comes next
and how far we are willing to go? We must have in mind not simply our
first step, but our second, third or fourth steps before we commit U.S.
troops.
While one of my main concerns in this is the credibility of NATO now
that we have threatened military action for many months, we must ask
ourselves what happens to NATO credibility if the air strikes fail to
accomplish their objectives? That would be a devastating blow to the
Alliance if we take the drastic step of attacking a sovereign nation,
and are not successful in the ultimate objective.
What of the credibility of the United States and our leadership on
the continent of Europe, in military as well as economic or diplomatic
partnerships? What of the credibility of the U.S. military as a partner
in other actions? There are important issues that can be debated in the
context of the pending amendment.
The Smith amendment provides that the Congress must be on record as
supporting this operation before we commit the U.S. military to the
crisis in Kosovo. I agree. We owe it to the men and women of the Armed
Forces to act on this issue. For that reason, I will support the Smith
amendment and vote for cloture on this amendment.
____________________