[Congressional Record Volume 145, Number 23 (Tuesday, February 9, 1999)]
[Senate]
[Pages S1385-S1388]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]

                                 prayer

  The Chaplain, Dr. Lloyd John Ogilvie, offered the following prayer:
  Almighty God, we renew our trust in You when we realize how much You 
have entrusted to us. We are stunned by the psalmist's reminder that 
You have crowned us with glory and honor and given us responsibility 
over the work of Your hands. We renew our dependence on You as we 
assume this breathtaking call to courageous leadership.
  Help the Senators to claim Your promised glory and honor. Imbue them 
with Your own attributes and strengthen their desire to do what is 
right and just. As they humbly cast before You any crowns of position 
or pride, crown them with Your presence and power. In Your holy Name. 
Amen.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Sergeant at Arms will make proclamation.
  The Sergeant at Arms, James W. Ziglar, made proclamation as follows:

       Hear ye! Hear ye! Hear ye! All persons are commanded to 
     keep silent, on pain of imprisonment, while the Senate of the 
     United States is sitting for the trial of the articles of 
     impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives against 
     William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States.


                              The Journal

  The CHIEF JUSTICE. If there is no objection, the Journal of 
proceedings of the trial are approved to date.
  The Chair recognizes the majority leader.
  Mr. LOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.


                           Order of Procedure

  Mr. LOTT. This afternoon, the Senate will begin final deliberations 
on the articles of impeachment. However, pursuant to S. Res. 30, a 
Senator may at this time offer a motion to suspend the rules to allow 
the final deliberations to remain open. That motion is not amendable 
and no motions to that motion may be offered. Therefore, I expect at 
least one vote to occur shortly. Following that vote, if the motion is 
defeated, I will move to close deliberations. If that motion should be 
adopted, the Senate will begin full deliberations, with each Senator 
allocated 15 minutes to speak. And I note that that will be true 
whether it is in open or closed session, although Senator Daschle and I 
may have some further comments to make about that later on.
  I note that if each Senator uses his or her entire debate time, the 
proceedings will take 25 hours, not including breaks and recesses. 
Therefore, I remind all Senators that Lincoln gave his Gettysburg 
Address in less than 3 minutes and Kennedy's inaugural address was 
slightly over 7 minutes. But certainly every Senator will have his or 
her opportunity to speak for up to 15 minutes, if that is their desire, 
and, of course, we would also need to communicate with the Chief 
Justice about the time of the proceedings.
  I expect that we will try to go until about 6 or 6:30 this afternoon. 
I want to confer with Senator Daschle, but I think maybe we will try to 
begin earlier tomorrow and go throughout the day into the early 
evening. Again, we do have to take into consideration the fact that 
about 7 or 8 hours will be the absolute maximum we will probably be 
able to do in a single day. We will talk further about that and make an 
announcement before we conclude today.
  I now yield the floor to the Senator from Pennsylvania, Senator 
Specter, for the purpose of propounding a unanimous consent request.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chair recognizes Senator Specter.


                       Unanimous-Consent Request

  Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, on behalf of the leader, and in my 
capacity as a copresider for the Senate at the deposition of Mr. Sidney 
Blumenthal, I ask unanimous consent that the parties be allowed to take 
additional discovery, including testimony on oral deposition of Mr. 
Christopher Hitchens, Ms. Carol Blue, Mr. R. Scott Armstrong and Mr. 
Sidney Blumenthal with regard to possible fraud on the Senate by 
alleged perjury in the deposition testimony of Mr. Sidney Blumenthal 
with respect to allegations that he, Mr. Sidney Blumenthal, was 
involved with the dissemination beyond the White House of information 
detrimental to the credibility of Ms. Monica Lewinsky, and that 
pursuant to the authority of title II of Senate Resolution 30, the 
Chief Justice of the United States, through the Secretary of the 
Senate, shall issue subpoenas for the taking of such testimony at a 
time and place to be determined by the majority leader after 
consultation with the Democratic leader, and, further, that these 
depositions be conducted pursuant to the procedures set forth in title 
II of Senate Resolution 30, except that the last four sentences of 
section 204 shall not apply to these depositions, provided, further, 
however, that the final sentence of section 204 shall apply to the 
deposition of Mr. Sidney Blumenthal.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there objection?
  Mr. DASCHLE. Mr. Chief Justice, I object.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Objection is heard.
  Mr. LOTT addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chair recognizes the majority leader.


                      Motion To Suspend The Rules

  Mr. LOTT. On behalf of myself and Senator Daschle, I move to suspend 
the rules on behalf of Senators Hutchison, Harkin, and others in order 
to conduct open deliberations.

[[Page S1386]]

  Mr. WELLSTONE addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from Minnesota.
  Mr. WELLSTONE. I ask unanimous consent that there be a 40-minute 
debate, equally divided, between the leaders or their designees in open 
session on the motion to suspend the rules.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there objection?
  Mr. GREGG. I object.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Objection is heard.
  The question is on the motion to suspend the rules. The yeas and nays 
are automatic. The clerk will call the roll.
  The legislative clerk called the roll.
  The yeas and nays resulted--yeas 59, nays 41, as follows:

                         [Rollcall Vote No. 15]

              [Subject: Lott motion to suspend the rules]

                                YEAS--59

     Abraham
     Akaka
     Baucus
     Bayh
     Biden
     Bingaman
     Boxer
     Breaux
     Bryan
     Byrd
     Cleland
     Collins
     Conrad
     Daschle
     DeWine
     Dodd
     Dorgan
     Durbin
     Edwards
     Feingold
     Feinstein
     Gorton
     Graham
     Hagel
     Harkin
     Hollings
     Hutchison
     Inouye
     Jeffords
     Johnson
     Kennedy
     Kerrey
     Kerry
     Kohl
     Kyl
     Landrieu
     Lautenberg
     Leahy
     Levin
     Lieberman
     Lincoln
     Lugar
     McCain
     Mikulski
     Moynihan
     Murray
     Reed
     Reid
     Robb
     Rockefeller
     Sarbanes
     Schumer
     Smith (OR)
     Snowe
     Specter
     Stevens
     Torricelli
     Wellstone
     Wyden

                                NAYS--41

     Allard
     Ashcroft
     Bennett
     Bond
     Brownback
     Bunning
     Burns
     Campbell
     Chafee
     Cochran
     Coverdell
     Craig
     Crapo
     Domenici
     Enzi
     Fitzgerald
     Frist
     Gramm
     Grams
     Grassley
     Gregg
     Hatch
     Helms
     Hutchinson
     Inhofe
     Lott
     Mack
     McConnell
     Murkowski
     Nickles
     Roberts
     Roth
     Santorum
     Sessions
     Shelby
     Smith (NH)
     Thomas
     Thompson
     Thurmond
     Voinovich
     Warner
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. On this vote the yeas are 59, the nays are 41. 
Two-thirds of those Senators voting--a quorum being present--not having 
voted in the affirmative, the motion is not agreed to.
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, I suggest the absence of a quorum.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will call the roll.
  The bill clerk proceeded to call the roll.
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, I ask unanimous consent that the order 
for the quorum call be rescinded.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. In the absence of objection, so ordered.
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, I want to make this reminder: Only those 
people who are properly authorized to be on the floor of the Senate 
should be here. The Sergeant at Arms will act accordingly.
  Now, Mr. Chief Justice, there is a desire by a number of Senators 
that it be possible for their statements, even in closed session, to be 
made a part of the Record. Senator Daschle and I have talked a great 
deal about this. We think this is an appropriate way to proceed.


    Motion Relating to Record of Proceedings Held in Closed Session

  Mr. LOTT. Therefore, I send this motion to the desk: That the record 
of the proceedings held in closed session for any Senator to insert 
their final deliberations on the articles of impeachment shall be 
published in the Congressional Record at the conclusion of the trial.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will read the motion.
  The legislative clerk read as follows:

       The Senator from Mississippi [Mr. Lott] for himself and Mr. 
     Daschle, moves as follows:
       That the record of the proceedings held in closed session 
     for any Senator to insert their final deliberations on the 
     Articles of Impeachment shall be published in the 
     Congressional Record at the conclusion of the trial.

  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, so everybody can understand this, may I 
be recognized?
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The majority leader is recognized.
  Mr. LOTT. It is the desire of one and all to have the opportunity for 
this record to be made. After the trial is concluded, Senators can have 
their statements in the closed session put into the Congressional 
Record--in the record of the trial. There may be Senators that choose, 
for whatever reason, not to do it in that way at that time. Senator 
Daschle and I have talked a great deal about this. We think this is the 
fair way to make that record. We urge that it be adopted.
  Mrs. FEINSTEIN. Mr. Chief Justice, point of clarification.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from California, Mrs. Feinstein, is 
recognized.
  Mrs. FEINSTEIN. Mr. Leader, can I ask a point of clarification? Does 
this mean that repartee between Members will not be recorded, but just 
the statement as the Member submits it?
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, if I could respond to that, I think that 
would be up to the Senators. That has been one of my points. I hope we 
won't just have speeches and that, in fact, we will have deliberations. 
As we have found ourselves in previous closed sessions, almost 
uncontrollably we wound up discussing and talking with each other. I 
hope that if we come to that, the Senators involved in the exchange 
would make that a part of the record and part of history. I believe 
they would have that right under this proposal.
  Mr. DASCHLE. If the leader will yield for the purpose of 
clarification, I may have misunderstood what the majority leader 
described here. But our intent would be to allow statements to be 
inserted into the Congressional Record, not into the hearing record.
  Mr. LOTT. That is correct. I misstated that.
  Mr. DASCHLE. So that people understand, this would actually allow you 
the opportunity to insert your statement into the Congressional Record, 
succeeding the votes on the two articles.
  Mr. WELLSTONE addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from Minnesota, Mr. Wellstone, is 
recognized.
  Mr. WELLSTONE. Mr. Chief Justice, I have a question for the majority 
leader. I might not have heard this the right way. This would allow any 
Senator who so wishes to have his or her statements made in all of 
our--not just the final deliberations, but this would cover all of our 
sessions that have been in closed session; is that correct or not?
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, I believe this would be applicable only 
to the final deliberations.
  Mr. WELLSTONE. Mr. Chief Justice, if I could ask the majority leader 
whether he might be willing--it seems to me that if this is the 
principle, I wonder if he would amend his request to any Senator who 
wants to--and it is up to the Senator--this is far different than 
having our final deliberations a matter of public record, which is what 
I think we should do, but what you are saying is any Senator who so 
wishes can do so. Might that not apply to all of the closed sessions we 
had? It seems to me that the same principle applies.
  Mr. LOTT. That is not what is in this proposal. I would like to think 
about that and discuss it with the Senator from Minnesota and others. I 
remember making a passionate speech, but I had no prepared notes; and 
so I could not put it into the Record if I wanted to when we were in 
one of those closed sessions.

  I honestly had not considered that. This was aimed at the closing 
deliberations. I think we need to give some thought to reaching back 
now to the other closed sessions before we move in that direction.
  Mr. CRAIG addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from Idaho, Mr. Craig, is recognized.
  Mr. CRAIG. Mr. Chief Justice, will the majority leader yield for a 
question?
  Mr. LOTT. I would be glad to yield, Mr. Chief Justice.
  Mr. CRAIG. Is my understanding correct that your motion would keep 
this session of deliberations closed, except for those Senators who 
would choose to have their statements become a part of the 
Congressional Record, and that it would be the choice of the individual 
Senators, and that the deliberations of the closed session would remain 
closed unless otherwise specified by each individual Senator, specific 
to their statements; is that a fair understanding?
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, that is an accurate understanding, and 
that is with the presumption that we will go into closed session, and 
such a motion will be made in short order.

[[Page S1387]]

  I want to also clarify that this is made on behalf of Senator Daschle 
and myself. We have consulted a great deal on this and we have both 
been thinking about doing something like this, but we never put it on 
paper until a moment ago.
  Mr. CRAIG. I thank the leader.
  Mr. COVERDELL addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from Georgia, Senator Coverdell, is 
recognized.
  Mr. COVERDELL. I want to make an inquiry to the leader in response to 
the question by the Senator from California, who alluded to actual 
deliberations and statements among Senators. I assume that in order to 
go into the Congressional Record, it would require all of the 
participants of the colloquy----
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Parliamentarian tells me that this is all out 
of order.
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, if I may, in a moment I will make a 
motion to close the doors for deliberations. However, we have to 
dispose of this.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question is on the motion----
  Mr. LEAHY. Mr. Chief Justice, I ask consent to ask the majority 
leader one follow-up question on his motion.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objection.
  Mr. LEAHY. Mr. Chief Justice, I want to make sure I fully understand 
the distinguished majority leader. Our vote on what we do on the record 
does not include a vote on closing the session itself, it simply 
assumes that vote carries?
  Mr. LOTT. That is correct. That is my understanding.
  Mr. HARKIN addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chair recognizes the Senator from Iowa, Mr. 
Harkin.
  Mr. HARKIN. Mr. Chief Justice, again, I ask consent that I be able to 
ask the majority leader a question regarding the ethics.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objection.
  Mr. HARKIN. I have a question regarding the ethics rules. Under this 
proposed motion, could a Senator give his or her statement in public 
and then give the same statement in closed session and still not 
violate the ethics rules? I am concerned about how we might want to 
follow that.
  I yield to the head of the Ethics Committee for clarification.
  Mr. SMITH of New Hampshire. If the motion carries, as has been 
outlined by the majority leader, you have every right to release your 
statement. That would not violate rule 29.5.
  Mr. HARKIN. I could do whatever----
  Mr. SMITH of New Hampshire. Your statement, yours, not anybody 
else's.
  Mrs. MURRAY addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from Washington, Mrs. Murray, is 
recognized.
  Mr. MURKOWSKI. Mr. Chief Justice, I ask consent to ask the majority 
leader a point of clarification.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objection.
  Mr. MURKOWSKI. If we reference another Senator's remarks in our 
statements, would we have to get that other Senator's consent in order 
to submit our statement, then, for the Record?
  Mr. LOTT. I am not chairman of the Ethics Committee, but I am assured 
by those on the committee that you would have to do so. Are we ready to 
move forward?
  Mr. KERRY addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from Massachusetts, Mr. Kerry, is 
recognized,
  Mr. KERRY. Mr. Chief Justice, I ask consent that I be permitted to 
ask a point of clarification.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objection.
  Mr. KERRY. I ask the majority leader this: He mentioned that he hoped 
during the deliberations that there would be more than just speeches, 
that there would be a process of colloquy. I was wondering if he was 
contemplating how that would work because I think under the rules we 
are limited to one intervention of a specific time period. Does the 
majority leader contemplate approaching that difficulty?
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, I have discussed this with the 
Democratic leader, and there is no ironclad rule. You know, in our 
other closed session when we sort of got on a roll, we yielded 
additional time to each other, and then at some point we started to 
have a round robin. The Chief Justice probably thought it was all 
completely out of order, but he allowed us to go forward. I think we 
will have to deal with that when we get there. I think, as has been the 
case all the way along, we will be understanding of each other and try 
to make these deliberations genuine deliberations. I think it would 
benefit us all in the final result.
  Before I make a motion to close the doors, I yield to the Senator 
from Texas, Mrs. Hutchison, for a parliamentary inquiry.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. We have a motion, do we not?
  Mr. LOTT. I beg your pardon.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. However amorphous it may be. (Laughter.)
  The question is on agreeing to the motion.
  The motion was agreed to.
  Mr. LOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, for that amorphous ruling. 
(Laughter.)
  I yield to the Senator from Texas for a parliamentary inquiry.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chair recognizes the Senator from Texas, 
Senator Hutchison.
  Mrs. HUTCHISON. Mr. Chief Justice, rule XX says that while the Senate 
is in session the doors shall remain open unless the Senate directs 
that the doors be closed.
  My inquiry is this: If the Senate, by a majority, voted not to direct 
the doors to be closed, would it be in order to proceed to 
deliberations with the doors open?
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chair is of the view that it would not be in 
order for this reason: On the initial reading of rules XX and XXIV of 
the Senate impeachment rules, it would not appear to mandate that the 
deliberations and debate occur in closed session, but only to permit 
it. But it is clear from a review of the history of the rules that the 
committee that was established in 1868 to create the rules specifically 
intended to require closed sessions for debate and deliberation. 
Senator Howard reported the rules for the committee and clearly 
understated his intention, and Chief Justice Chase, in the Andrew 
Johnson trial, stated in response to an inquiry, ``There can be no 
deliberation unless the doors are closed. There can be no debate under 
the rules unless the doors be closed.''

  I understand from the Parliamentarian that it has been the consistent 
practice of the Senate for the last 130 years in impeachment trials to 
require deliberations and debate by the Senate to be held in closed 
session. Therefore--though there may be some ambiguity between the two 
rules--my ruling is based partly on deference of the Senate's 
longstanding practice.
  In the opinion of the Chair, there can be no deliberation on any 
question before the Senate in open session unless the Senate suspends 
its rules, or consent is granted.
  Mrs. HUTCHISON. Thank you.


            Motion to Close the Doors for Final Deliberation

  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, with that record now having been made, I 
now move that the doors for final deliberations be closed, and I ask 
unanimous consent that the yeas and nays be vitiated.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there objection?
  Mr. WELLSTONE addressed the Chair.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Senator from Minnesota is recognized.
  Mr. WELLSTONE. Mr. Chief Justice, the majority leader is trying to 
get the floor, but I wonder whether I could not move that any Senator 
be allowed, if he or she makes it their choice, to have our statements 
that have been made and passed in closed session left entirely up to us 
to also be a part of the Congressional Record.
  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, if I could respond, give us an 
opportunity to discuss this with you. We will have another opportunity 
to do that. I think maybe we can work something out. I would like to 
make sure we thought it through, if that is appropriate, Mr. Chief 
Justice.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Is there objection?
  Mr. HARKIN. Mr. Chief Justice, I object.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Objection is heard.
  The yeas and nays are automatic. The clerk will call the roll.

[[Page S1388]]

  The bill clerk called the roll.
  The result was announced--yeas 53, nays 47, as follows:

                         [Rollcall Vote No. 16]

                  [Subject: Motion to close the doors]

                                YEAS--53

     Abraham
     Allard
     Ashcroft
     Bennett
     Bond
     Brownback
     Bunning
     Burns
     Campbell
     Chafee
     Cochran
     Collins
     Coverdell
     Craig
     Crapo
     DeWine
     Domenici
     Enzi
     Fitzgerald
     Frist
     Gorton
     Gramm
     Grams
     Grassley
     Gregg
     Hagel
     Hatch
     Helms
     Hutchinson
     Inhofe
     Jeffords
     Kyl
     Lott
     Lugar
     Mack
     McCain
     McConnell
     Murkowski
     Nickles
     Roberts
     Roth
     Santorum
     Sessions
     Shelby
     Smith (NH)
     Smith (OR)
     Snowe
     Stevens
     Thomas
     Thompson
     Thurmond
     Voinovich
     Warner

                                NAYS--47

     Akaka
     Baucus
     Bayh
     Biden
     Bingaman
     Boxer
     Breaux
     Bryan
     Byrd
     Cleland
     Conrad
     Daschle
     Dodd
     Dorgan
     Durbin
     Edwards
     Feingold
     Feinstein
     Graham
     Harkin
     Hollings
     Hutchison
     Inouye
     Johnson
     Kennedy
     Kerrey
     Kerry
     Kohl
     Landrieu
     Lautenberg
     Leahy
     Levin
     Lieberman
     Lincoln
     Mikulski
     Moynihan
     Murray
     Reed
     Reid
     Robb
     Rockefeller
     Sarbanes
     Schumer
     Specter
     Torricelli
     Wellstone
     Wyden
  The motion was agreed to.


                             Closed Session

  (At 1:52 p.m., the doors of the Chamber were closed. The proceedings 
of the Senate were held in closed session until 6:27 p.m., at which 
time, the following occurred.)


                              Open Session

  Mr. LOTT. Mr. Chief Justice, I ask unanimous consent that the Senate 
resume open session.
  The CHIEF JUSTICE. Without objection, it is so ordered.

                          ____________________