[Congressional Record Volume 144, Number 129 (Thursday, September 24, 1998)]
[Senate]
[Pages S10866-S10867]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




 WENDELL H. FORD NATIONAL AIR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM IMPROVEMENT ACT OF 
                                  1998

  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate will proceed to S. 2279 which the 
clerk will report.
  The legislative clerk read as follows:

       A bill (S. 2279) to amend title 49, United States Code, to 
     authorize programs of the Federal Aviation Administration for 
     fiscal years 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002, and for other 
     purposes.

  The Senate resumed consideration of the bill.
  Pending:

       Inhofe amendment No. 3620, to provide for the immediate 
     application of certain orders relating to the amendment, 
     modification, suspension, or revocation of certificates under 
     chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code.


                           Amendment No. 3620

  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate will come to order.
  There are 10 minutes equally divided on the Inhofe amendment. Who 
yields time?
  Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that because of 
his eloquence, the Senator from Oklahoma be allowed 7 minutes and I 
will take 3 minutes.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
  The Senator from Oklahoma.
  Mr. INHOFE. Mr. President, there is a process that is used by the FAA 
which is known as the emergency revocation process. This process will 
allow an inspector in the event of an alleged violation by a licensed 
pilot to take away the pilot's certificate. He would take away the 
certificate under the emergency revocation clause declaring that an 
emergency exists.

  The problem with this is that many times when you have an inspector 
do this, or an examiner take away a certificate, there is not even an 
emergency nature to the revocation. Consequently, we have many, many 
cases where the individuals have been abused.
  I would like to suggest that Ted Stewart, who is an American Airlines 
pilot, has been a pilot for over 12 years and presently flying Boeing 
767s. In May of 1995, there was an emergency revocation. He was not 
guilty of anything. There was not an emergency attached to this. There 
was never any hazard to anyone's health or safety.
  However, it was 2 months until he was able to get his certificate 
back. Then an examiner went back to him in June of 1996 and again 
revoked his certificate under the emergency revocation. Consequently, 
for another 2 months he was unable to earn a living. Fortunately, he 
worked for American Airlines; they were good enough to keep his 
paychecks coming, but in many cases that is not the case.
  I happen to be a very close friend of a man named Bob Hoover. I think 
most of you can remember who Bob Hoover is. He is considered to be the 
best performer in the circuit of airshows. In fact, I have flown 
airshows with him. In 1992--and I was there at the time--an inspector 
came in, an examiner for the FAA, and said to him, We think you have a 
problem. We think perhaps there is a mental problem or something--they 
didn't really define it--and they revoked his certificate. It wasn't 
for another 4 years he was able to get his certificate back. In the 
meantime, he was flying his airshows but outside the United States.
  Now, very simply, what my amendment does is set up a process whereby 
if you lose your certificate, you have 48 hours to take it to the NTSB 
and let the NTSB make a determination as to whether or not there is any 
kind of an emergency nature to the revocation. After they have looked 
this over and decided there is no emergency involved to the nature of 
the revocation, then at the end of 7 days the pilot will get his 
certificate back. If there is, then he would not get it back. They can 
go ahead then and go through the normal adjudication of the violation.
  This is something that has been going on for quite some time. We have 
been concerned about reforming this process. This is a compromise, 
because this makes it very clear if there is any hazard out there, if 
there is any risk to anyone's safety, the flying public or the pilot 
himself, the pilot is not going to be able to fly. It is as simple as 
that.
  A lot of people say that there are only 300 emergency revocations a 
year. Therefore, it is not really a problem; it doesn't really affect 
that many people. I suggest to you that if you take 300 people, there 
might be 20 or 30 of those who make their living flying airplanes for 
American Airlines or one of the other airlines, in which case that 
takes them out of their occupation.
  The other problem we have is there are 650,000 pilots right now 
licensed in

[[Page S10867]]

the United States and they all live in mortal fear that something like 
this would happen to them.
  At this point let me yield 1 minute to Senator Frist.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Tennessee is recognized.
  Mr. FRIST. Mr. President, I rise in support of the Inhofe amendment. 
Clearly, the FAA will be against this amendment because they will not 
voluntarily relinquish anything in terms of regulatory authority. I 
believe this amendment is reasonable. It provides, in essence, due 
process for pilots who do have their privileges revoked, with attention 
given to safety. It really assures accountability within the FAA.
  As a pilot who has been witness to the potential abuses--and the 
Senator from Oklahoma has demonstrated several well-documented examples 
of how the FAA has really unfairly used a necessary power to 
prematurely revoke certificates--this amendment will address the issue 
while assuring accountability.
  I rise in support of the amendment, a more reasonable approach which 
assures accountability and assures due process.
  Mr. INHOFE. I reserve the remainder of my time.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Arizona.
  Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, I, of course, respect very much the views 
expressed by Senators Frist and Inhofe, both of whom are pilots. The 
FAA has objected to this amendment. I believe it goes too far. I 
understand Senator Inhofe's concerns. They were voiced a couple of 
years ago on a similar measure when we were doing another bill, the 
aviation bill. The fact is, we need to address this issue.
  I believe this goes too far. I look forward to working with Senator 
Inhofe and Senator Frist on it, but I am very hesitant to take a 
measure which could, at the end of the day, possibly endanger safety. 
That is why I have to oppose this amendment at this time.
  I yield 30 seconds to the Senator from Kentucky.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Kentucky.
  Mr. FORD. Mr. President, I have to oppose this amendment, also. The 
FAA must have the ability to act when it believes safety is at risk. 
The FAA is often criticized for not acting quickly enough on safety 
matters. Here they revoke a certificate for safety purposes and we want 
to make it harder for them to act. Right now the court of appeals has 
upheld the FAA actions in every case. They do not second guess the 
agency charged with the regulation of safety, so let's be sure we give 
the FAA the authority for safety in the air.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time of the Senator has expired. The 
Senator from Oklahoma.
  Mr. INHOFE. Mr. President just a few years ago we went through the 
same thing with the civil penalties of the FAA Act, so there would be 
someone other than the FAA involved. Prior to that time, the FAA was 
the judge, the jury, and the appellate court. They made all the 
decisions and they were protecting their own, because every bureaucracy 
does this--EPA, IRS, FDA and all the rest of them.
  We changed the regulation so the NTSB, then, would be the appellate 
court for civil penalties, and it has worked very well. The junior 
Senator from Texas served on the NTSB, and I yield her whatever time 
she needs.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator is recognized for 1 minute 20 
seconds.
  Mrs. HUTCHISON. Mr. President, I do support the Inhofe amendment. 
Having served on the National Transportation Safety Board, I can tell 
you that the NTSB normally does not overturn the FAA revocation of 
pilots' licenses. But they do, after they go through the process and 
look at all of the evidence. I think it is quite fair to say if someone 
is going to be disadvantaged by having a license revoked, that the NTSB 
could very easily, and quickly, look at the type of evidence that they 
are going to hear and, without making a final adjudication, determine 
that this person would or would not be eligible to fly during the 
pendency of the proceedings.
  I think it would introduce a new level in the process. It would be 
the emergency level. I think the NTSB can handle this. I think they are 
competent to do it, and I think their record shows that they have done 
it in the past.
  I do support the amendment.
  Mr. INHOFE. Mr. President, how much time do I have remaining?
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator has 14 seconds.
  Mr. INHOFE. I will conclude by saying this in no way impairs the 
flying safety of the flying public or the pilots. The fact that the 
average time between the alleged violation and the revocation is 132 
days pretty much tells you it is not really an emergency problem in 
most of these cases. I urge you to join the 625,000 pilots and myself 
in supporting the Inhofe amendment.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time of the Senator has expired.
  The Senator from Arizona has 1 minute 30 seconds.
  Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, I thank the Senator from Oklahoma. If he 
does not prevail on this amendment, which I oppose, I want to pledge to 
him that I will work with him. There have been abuses. He pointed out 
the case of Mr. Hoover, who was respected and admired by all of us, who 
was mistreated by the bureaucracy. Unfortunately, there are always 
cases where these things happen. But I think we have always to keep 
safety as the paramount concern, and I believe this amendment 
possibly--I am not saying absolutely--but possibly could endanger the 
FAA's ability to carry out their primary responsibilities.
  I thank the Senator from Oklahoma for his deep involvement in this 
and other aviation issues. I look forward to working with him in 
addressing what is clearly a problem.
  I yield back the remainder of my time.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. All time has expired. The question is on 
agreeing to the amendment. The yeas and nays have been ordered. The 
clerk will call the roll.
  The legislative clerk called the roll.
  Mr. FORD. I announce that the Senator from Ohio (Mr. Glenn) and the 
Senator from Illinois (Ms. Moseley-Braun) are necessarily absent.
  I also announce that the Senator from Minnesota (Mr. Wellstone) is 
absent attending a funeral.
  I further announce that, if present and voting, the Senator from 
Minnesota (Mr. Wellstone) would vote ``no.''
  The result was announced--yeas 46, nays 51, as follows:

                      [Rollcall Vote No. 286 Leg.]

                                YEAS--46

     Abraham
     Allard
     Ashcroft
     Bennett
     Bond
     Breaux
     Brownback
     Burns
     Campbell
     Chafee
     Coats
     Cochran
     Collins
     Coverdell
     Craig
     Domenici
     Enzi
     Faircloth
     Frist
     Grams
     Grassley
     Hatch
     Helms
     Hutchinson
     Hutchison
     Inhofe
     Jeffords
     Kempthorne
     Kyl
     Lott
     Lugar
     McConnell
     Murkowski
     Nickles
     Roberts
     Santorum
     Sessions
     Shelby
     Smith (NH)
     Smith (OR)
     Snowe
     Specter
     Stevens
     Thomas
     Thurmond
     Warner

                                NAYS--51

     Akaka
     Baucus
     Biden
     Bingaman
     Boxer
     Bryan
     Bumpers
     Byrd
     Cleland
     Conrad
     D'Amato
     Daschle
     DeWine
     Dodd
     Dorgan
     Durbin
     Feingold
     Feinstein
     Ford
     Gorton
     Graham
     Gramm
     Gregg
     Hagel
     Harkin
     Hollings
     Inouye
     Johnson
     Kennedy
     Kerrey
     Kerry
     Kohl
     Landrieu
     Lautenberg
     Leahy
     Levin
     Lieberman
     Mack
     McCain
     Mikulski
     Moynihan
     Murray
     Reed
     Reid
     Robb
     Rockefeller
     Roth
     Sarbanes
     Thompson
     Torricelli
     Wyden

                             NOT VOTING--3

     Glenn
     Moseley-Braun
     Wellstone
  The amendment (No. 3620) was rejected.
  Mr. FORD. Mr. President, I move to reconsider the vote.
  Mr. LOTT. I move to lay that motion on the table.
  The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.
  Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, I thank Senator Inhofe. I intend to work 
with him. We are going to take this bill to conference. He has a 
legitimate concern here and the closeness of the vote indicated that. I 
will work with him on this. He has clearly identified this as a serious 
problem, and I thank him for the spirited debate and the ventilation of 
a very important issue.




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