[Congressional Record Volume 144, Number 29 (Tuesday, March 17, 1998)]
[House]
[Pages H1211-H1218]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                            DIALOGUE ON RACE

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of 
January 7, 1997, the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) is recognized 
for 60 minutes as the designee of the minority leader.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I called a special order tonight 
with a bipartisan delegation, Members of Congress that traveled from 
Washington to Birmingham, Montgomery, and Selma during March 6 through 
the 8th. Along with Members of the Congress that included Amo Houghton, 
Earl Hilliard, Sherrod Brown, Tom Barrett, Karen Thurman, Fred Upton, 
Diana DeGette, Eliot Engel, Sheila Jackson-Lee, we also had the head of 
the National Democratic Committee, Roy Roman, and Jim Nicholson, the 
Republican National Committee chair.
  This trip was to be part of a dialogue on race, which was sponsored 
by Faith and Politics Institute under the leadership of Doug Tanner. 
These Members decided to travel to Birmingham to the site of the 16th 
Street Baptist Church and visit the church where four little girls were 
killed by a bomb on September 15, 1963, and from there to visit the 
Civil Rights Museum and to see some of the historic sites that changed 
America.
  From there we traveled to the City of Montgomery, where we had an 
opportunity to visit the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church that Martin 
Luther King, Jr., was called to pastor in 1954 and where he led the 
successful Montgomery bus boycott.
  We had an opportunity while we were in Montgomery to visit former 
Governor George Wallace and to talk with him, to shake his hand, to 
tour the capitol in the City of Montgomery, to visit the Civil Rights 
Memorial there and travel from Montgomery on early Sunday morning to 
the City of Selma, where we attended service at the Brown Chapel A.M.E. 
Church. And later we had lunch that was sponsored by the mayor of 
Selma, Mayor Smitherman.
  In 1965, 33 years ago, in the City of Selma only 2.1 percent of 
blacks of voting age were registered to vote. In one county between 
Selma and Montgomery, Loundes County, that we traveled through on our 
way to Selma, in 1965 that county was more than 80 percent African-
American. There was not a single registered African-American voter. But 
today in Selma in Loundes County in the State of Alabama we have 
witnessed unbelievable changes. It is a different State. It is a 
different place.
  What I would like to do now, Mr. Speaker, is to yield to the 
gentleman from New York (Mr. Houghton), my colleague and the co-chair 
of the Faith and Politics Institute and one of the real leaders of this 
whole Dialogue on Race.
  Mr. HOUGHTON. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding.
  I am, obviously, honored and really moved to be here, as I was when 
we went on that extraordinary weekend. I think we all sort of feel that 
we walk in the shadow of John Lewis. We can reconstruct history. We can 
read about it. But to be part of history with a man like John Lewis, 
who was there and who suffered all the humilities and the physical 
beatings and the agonies of those times was really something.
  I mean, I do not think I will ever get over it. As I mentioned to Mr. 
Lewis, it was almost like my trip to the Holy Land. It was a religious 
experience. This was a group that did not have any legislative program. 
We did not want

[[Page H1212]]

to start any new government project. But we wanted to deal honestly 
with ourselves. And I think Mr. Lewis will agree that we did that. I 
know that he has always tried to deal honestly with us, and I hope we 
were able to do this with him and some of his associates down there.
  It was extraordinary to see the people who were associated there. 
There was a wonderful lady. I call her lady now. But in those days, 30 
years ago, she was a young girl; and when the conditions got very sad, 
she would break into song and pull everybody's spirits up. She did it 
with us.
  Really, it was a pilgrimage that we went through in going to those 
three extraordinary cities, going to the Civil Rights Museum, seeing 
that extraordinary civil rights piece of sculpture which Maya Lyn did, 
similar to the Vietnam Memorial.
  I think the thing that meant almost as much to me was just being with 
this man here and listening to him. Let me give my colleagues just a 
couple of statements.
  John said in our meeting at the airport when we were about to return, 
he said,

       You know, there are two things that sort of come to mind 
     here. First, every so often there is an issue, it is an 
     important issue, it is usually a social issue. And if you 
     feel strongly about it and there is an element of evil to it, 
     you have got to stand in the way of it, you have got to stand 
     in the way of it. And those of us who look at it and walk 
     around it and walk on about our daily lives, it is really a 
     cop-out.

  And that is, of course, what happened. It was extraordinary to see 
the people who stood in the way of the civil rights issue.
  The other thing that I think that the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. 
Lewis) was talking about, and some of us were saying, how could you 
have been so patient? People were literally mauling them and beating 
them up. All the people we had talked to had been through the same 
experience. How could you show such restraint?
  The gentleman from Georgia said, you know, we thought about that. I 
think it was every Tuesday night, we used to have these sessions of 
training prior to the march. We were taught to consider the people out 
there who were full of so much venom and hate not as our enemies, we 
did not have time to hate people, but as victims of a culture that they 
did not have any part of; they could not control themselves.
  So with that, those two themes, the idea of standing in the way of 
something, standing up, doing something about it permanently, and that 
also doing it in this marvelous sense that Dr. Martin Luther King 
epitomized so well, it did something to us. It was far beyond just the 
race issue.
  I think the interesting thing, if I can talk just a second more 
autobiographically, that we took these dialogues on race and the 
discussion which the Faith and Politics Institute put into effect and 
took them back into our districts. There were meetings all over the 
country.
  We started talking race, but we ended up talking about ourselves and 
our children and our families and our communities. But we were being 
honest about it. It was an extraordinary transformation. I give that 
credit to this distinguished man standing over here, the gentleman from 
Georgia (Mr. Lewis). We are the better for it.
  In ending, I would just like to say, although most of us were not 
there with you at that time, I hope we can follow worthily where you 
have led the way.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. I thank the gentleman from New York (Mr. 
Houghton) for those words. I think this is only a beginning toward us 
building that beloved community and moving toward laying down the 
burden of race. That is why the dialogue must continue.
  I yield to my friend and colleague, the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. 
Brown).
  Mr. BROWN of Ohio. I thank the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) for 
yielding. I very much appreciate the opportunity to say a few words 
tonight. Especially, even more, I appreciated the opportunity to be 
part of a remarkable weekend in Montgomery and Birmingham and Selma.
  I was there with my mother, who grew up in a small town in Georgia, 
and with my daughter Emily, who is 16. To watch the interaction between 
the two of them was remarkable in this kind of situation.
  Margaret Mead once said many, many years ago that grandparents tend 
to impart wisdom to their grandchildren; that knowledge in this society 
is passed from grandparent to grandchildren.
  So for my 16-year-old daughter Emily to listen to my mother talk 
about drinking fountains in the South that said white and said colored, 
the white drinking fountain was much nicer and newer than the drinking 
fountain reserved for African-Americans, and to spend these 3 days with 
the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) in Selma and Montgomery and 
Birmingham, to see what happened to him in these periods in 1965 and 
really in the many years in the 1960s when he was so much a part of the 
civil rights movement, so much a leader in the civil rights movement.
  But what comes through more than anything that my mother and my 
daughter and all of us that were part of this pilgrimage to Alabama, 
what we all saw was the ability, the capacity for forgiveness. People 
that were literally trying to kill John Lewis, people that were 
beating, beating with sticks, or were giving political orders or 
whatever to hurt people like John Lewis. And to end this movement, that 
the gentleman from Georgia and others in the civil rights movement, 
people like the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. Hilliard), were able to 
have a capacity to forgive in a situation like that.
  It is a remarkable thing that, as the gentleman from Georgia forgave 
and as others in the civil rights movement forgave people that wanted 
to wrong them, it really did begin to change the hearts of those people 
who would either hit them with sticks or tromp them with horse's hooves 
or giving political orders to attack or to assault, those people's 
hearts were changed as the gentleman from Georgia and others forgave.
  That is really maybe the most remarkable part about the week and the 
most remarkable part about the civil rights movement is the mayor of 
Selma, Alabama, who is a very impressive gentleman, who is now 68 years 
old, 34 years ago, he was elected mayor. Several weeks later, he met 
the gentleman from Georgia. He at that time called John Lewis a rabble-
rouser and a troublemaker. Today, this past weekend, at lunch, he 
called John Lewis one of the most, if not the most, courageous person 
he had ever met.
  This man had a wonderful capacity to change and open his heart up as 
people like the gentleman from Georgia had the same capacity to forgive 
and saw bringing together the races.
  The best part about all of that is that we, for the first time in 
many people's lives that were in this trip, we heard African-Americans 
talk honestly about what it is like to be black, and then blacks were 
able to listen to white people talk about what it is like and to really 
communicate with each other, something that we clearly do not do enough 
of in this country.
  So it was a remarkable time in the 1960s and throughout the civil 
rights movement and the last 200 years, but a particularly remarkable 
time as things began to more rapidly change. I think all of us, 
African-Americans and whites, on this trip were all changed for the 
better.

                              {time}  1900

  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from 
Michigan (Mr. Upton), who was also part of our trip to Selma.
  Mr. UPTON. I thank the gentleman for yielding. I just want to say I 
was very pleased to have joined this bipartisan effort, certainly not 
only as a Republican but more as an American, to actually have walked 
in the footsteps and to see some of those struggles. For me growing up 
in Michigan, never having really been to the South, never certainly 
been to Alabama until this weekend, two weeks ago, it was an amazing, 
extraordinary adventure for me. As I think about my district, diverse 
in so many needs and issues, whether rural and urban, industrialwise, 
in agriculture and diverse too in ethnicity, this was a very important 
trip for me, not only to understand some of the divisions that existed 
not only in the North but to see the real footsteps that the gentleman 
from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) led in the South.
  As the gentleman from New York (Mr. Houghton) indicated before,

[[Page H1213]]

though there were many of us that were sad that we were not with him 
back in the 1960s, for me I had an excuse as I might have been 7 years 
old, we want to finish this trail with the gentleman from Georgia. As 
we traveled this way and spent substantial time not only on the bus 
talking about the trials and tribulations that he went through, but I 
know that for sure the dozen of us that were there are indeed much 
closer as Americans and as Members of this House in respecting those 
convictions that all of us have for each other and our views and our 
districts that each of us represents. As the gentleman from New York 
(Mr. Houghton) indicated, it was a religious experience. One cannot 
describe it, certainly in the hour that we have here tonight, but in 
discussions certainly the Faith in Politics Institute began several 
months ago, as we see these unfold in the future. We love him. We love 
all that he did for America and for this House in terms of his 
leadership then and now. We certainly look forward to walking this path 
with him, with all Americans, as we try and end hatred and racism and 
things that sadly exist in far too many homes across this country.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from New 
York (Mr. Engel).
  Mr. ENGEL. I thank the gentleman from Michigan for yielding to me. I 
was very privileged to also be part of the delegation which went with 
the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) to Alabama, to Birmingham, 
Montgomery and to Selma. It was as my colleagues have mentioned, a 
very, very moving experience. It was especially moving for me, Mr. 
Speaker.
  I represent a district, a very diverse district in New York which is 
about a third African-American, a third Hispanic and a third white. We 
know better than most people that people have to live together and 
people have to work together. I think there is nothing that better 
personifies that than the civil rights struggle.
  To my right is a picture of us in Montgomery, Alabama joining hands, 
locking hands and singing We Shall Overcome at the Southern Poverty Law 
Center. It was one of the very moving moments of the trip. Believe me, 
there were many, many moving moments at the trip, the feeling of 
working together and being together and joining in the struggle for 
civil rights together. Although people like the gentleman from Georgia 
(Mr. Lewis), whom I refer to as a real American hero and the gentleman 
is a real American hero and it is an honor to be his colleague and to 
be in the House with him, the fact of the matter is we have come a long 
way in the United States in terms of race relations. But obviously we 
still have a long, long way to go. We can learn from the past. The past 
can help us learn and prepare for the future. To be down in Alabama at 
the 16th Street Baptist Church with those 4 little girls who were 
killed, one of those girls was my age when she was blown to bits. I 
remember it very, very vividly, hearing about it on the news. To be in 
the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, where Dr. Martin Luther 
King was the minister, was really a feeling to behold. To go to Selma 
and to actually go over that bridge and to understand where history was 
made, on the highway past the spot where Viola Liuzzo was gunned down 
and to see all these other places that we read about, that we heard 
about, I was a little too young at the time to be able to make the trip 
down but I was old enough to understand what was happening.
  I remember the first time I ever went to the South in 1967 with two 
friends and saw the signs, the segregated signs, and could not believe 
that this was a part of America. I think what one of our colleagues 
said, which is the genius of John Lewis, is how can someone go through 
what he went through and emerge not only as a person who is not bitter 
but as a person who understands the necessity of trying to bring people 
together and who continues to do that more than any other person that I 
know. It was just an honor for me and also a tribute, I think, to the 
gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) and also just to be a part of it, to 
understand what this means to the United States, the greatest country 
in the world, we are honored and we are privileged to serve in the 
United States Congress representing the greatest country in the world, 
but we learn again from our past.
  We know in the United States so many diverse people, coming together, 
living together, we are all Americans, we have different backgrounds. 
That is the genius and the greatness of our country, trying to bring 
people together, trying to accentuate the similarities in people rather 
than trying to accentuate our differences. That is what I try to do in 
my district in New York. I know the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) 
has been doing it for his entire life. I just want to say to my 
colleague from Georgia that it was an honor and a privilege being with 
him that weekend in Alabama. It is an honor and privilege serving with 
him. We need to all move forward and to continue to bring people in 
this great country together. The people who did this 33 years ago and 
35 years ago and before that in the civil rights movement are truly the 
people who made this country better for all of us.
  Again, we still have a long way to go and we have to keep being 
resolute in saying that in this country we need to continue to have 
dialogue. I commend President Clinton for his dialogue on race. We need 
to learn from the past and we need to move forward for the future. I 
was honored and privileged to be part of the delegation. I look forward 
to a continuing dialogue in making race relations in our great country 
better and better and better.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from 
Wisconsin (Mr. Barrett).
  Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. Mr. Speaker, I think all of us felt the 
same way, all of us who were on this weekend. It was probably one of 
the most, if not the most, amazing weekend I have spent in my 5\1/2\ 
years in Congress. We all fashion ourselves as busy people, sometimes 
we are too busy to take the time to talk to each other, to get to know 
each other but, more importantly, we do not take the time to reflect 
and find out from our backgrounds what we can do to bring us together.
  For me this was just a weekend I will never forget my entire life. 
Going down to Alabama for the first time in my life, traveling with the 
gentleman from Alabama (Mr. Hilliard) through his district, he was a 
wonderful host, and with the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis). 
Someone remarked the weekend was a lot like taking a history course 
taught by the professor who created the history, because John Lewis was 
such an integral part of this. For me to go home and tell my family and 
my friends what an amazing weekend it was really is going to have an 
impact.
  For me there were several things that really jumped out. Probably the 
part that I will remember the most is when we went to visit former 
Governor George Wallace. The number of us, I think, northern Democrats 
when we went into the room, he is not a person that in my neck of the 
woods was a person that I grew up respecting in all honesty. But when I 
saw John Lewis and Earl Hilliard go up and greet him, I thought, well, 
if they have room in their heart for forgiveness, I should have room in 
my heart for forgiveness as well. But it was not something that came 
easy. For me to see the remarkable degree of calmness that was 
displayed and has been displayed by the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. 
Lewis), again I went home and remarked to my wife, ``This is an amazing 
guy. He shows no anger, he shows no bitterness.'' I do not know that 
there are many people in this world who could have done what he did and 
not showed any anger or bitterness. Someone else said to me, he was 21 
years old or 22 years old when he did this. Would you have had the 
courage to do that when you were 21 or 22? I said, ``I don't know that 
I would have the courage to do it now.'' Because he was putting his 
life on the line and all the people who were involved in this struggle 
were putting their lives on the line. As we have sat around, and we 
have for several evenings talking about our backgrounds, I and the 
gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Upton) and the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. 
Brown) and some of the younger Members here, I felt a little, I do not 
want to say unworthy but I did not have the same shared experience 
because people who were 10 or 15 years older than I had gone through 
lot of

[[Page H1214]]

this. So as we went around the room and people said what they were 
doing at this period, I was in the third, fourth or fifth grade, I was 
probably playing softball or something like that. I did not have a 
shared experience. I did not know whether I had anything I could add to 
this conversation. But as I left that weekend, what I probably came 
away with more than anything is that this is not a struggle that is 
over, this is not even a struggle that has been resolved in a way that 
people can say, ``Well, let's move on to something else.'' It is a 
struggle for human beings to get to know each other and to try to shed 
our differences and try to find out what we have in common. For that I 
thank the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis), I thank the gentleman 
from New York (Mr. Engel), I thank the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. 
Hilliard), I thank the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Brown), the gentleman 
from New York (Mr. Houghton), the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Upton), 
the gentlewoman from Florida (Mrs. Thurman), the other people who were 
on this trip because I think it helps us all grow. I think what this 
institution needs is to talk to each other and try to come together.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Let me just add before the gentleman from 
Alabama (Mr. Hilliard) speaks, just to thank him again for being such a 
great host. We were in his district the entire time in Birmingham, in 
Montgomery, in Selma. We want to thank the gentleman.
  Mr. HILLIARD. I thank the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) very 
much. Let me thank all my colleagues. It was indeed a privilege and a 
pleasure for us to entertain you and to walk back into history with 
you. The civil rights movement presented a difficult thing for our 
Nation at a very difficult time, but it was Americans like the 
gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) that made the difference. To walk 
back into history with him and with a few of the other people who 
participated in the civil rights movement at that time and to walk back 
with colleagues of mine who had not participated but who had a chance 
to see firsthand some of the things that took place, the films we saw, 
the movies, the videos, being able to once again cross the Edmund 
Pettus Bridge, being able to walk through the Civil Rights Museum in 
Birmingham, Alabama, and to visit the Civil Rights Institute was indeed 
something that does not happen often. We were pleased to have all of 
you walk what we call the Civil Rights Trail in Alabama. We did not get 
a chance to walk all of it. We did not get a chance to even walk the 
majority of it. But the most important thing, we were there and because 
you came, the press came, and we had a chance for America to look back 
at its past, to recall some of the terrible events that took place, and 
hopefully to enlighten some of the young people who were not born 33 
years ago, who did not know of our Nation's past, so that they would 
have a chance to learn about it and hopefully to have such an 
appreciation until they would dedicate themselves to freedom for 
everyone, so that it would never happen again in America.
  The treatment that you receive and others in trying to cross the 
Selma-Montgomery Trail, in trying to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge and 
in walking from Selma to Montgomery was inhumane and it was not the 
type of treatment that Americans are used to. It is a thing of the 
past. It is something that we should never forget, but it was the past. 
When we reflect back, when we look at what took place, it gives us an 
opportunity to see what happened and to keep it before the public so 
that never again will it be a part of our history, not to any minority, 
not for any reason, so that we could really enhance the democracy that 
we have.

                              {time}  1915

  So having the opportunity to have so many congressional types in our 
Alabama on such an occasion was indeed a good experience, not only 
because of the presence of my colleagues, but because of the fact that 
we had a chance to visit George Wallace; we had a chance to dialogue 
with the head of the two major parties in this country, and they had a 
chance to participate.
  So it was really enjoyable and educational, having all of my 
colleagues there. We appreciate you. We invite you back. We want you to 
come, and we want to go to the next level the next time. We will be 
talking about that in the coming months. Hopefully, we will do it from 
this podium.
  Mr. BROWN of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, one of the lighter moments of the 
trip, perhaps, was we met the fellow, I believe Deacon McNair, in the 
church, and we will put his picture up in a moment. He is, I believe, 
89 years old, he told us, sort of soft-spoken, a slightly built man, 
who told us as he ran through sort of the history on the wall, this was 
the church in Montgomery where, the Dexter Avenue Church where Dr. King 
was called. And he told us the story that in 1954, I believe, when Dr. 
King would have been 24 years old, 1953, I guess he would have been 24 
years old, and he had already accepted his first church, his first 
calling at a church in Chattanooga, and this gentleman in Montgomery 
decided that he was going to do something about that. So he drove his 
car over to Atlanta and met with Dr. King's parents and Dr. King and 
convinced him not to go to Chattanooga, but instead to go to 
Montgomery. So he changed history when he did that.
  I see the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. Hilliard) laughing, because I 
imagine he was an old friend of his. But it was a wonderful story, and 
Dr. King only had one church in his life that he was the pastor of, the 
church in Birmingham on Dexter Avenue, and this man was the gentleman 
responsible for getting him there.
  Mr. HILLIARD. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman, by the way, I believe, had 
been a member of that church for some 93 years; he was that old. He 
takes credit for bringing Dr. King there, and indeed, he deserves the 
credit. But he also deserves the credit for changing the history of 
this country, and for that I am thankful.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I think this particular deacon, as 
head of the deacon board, he made a great contribution, and I think 
when historians pick up their pens and write about this period, they 
would have to say that this one man had the insight, the vision, to go 
to Atlanta, as the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Brown) suggested, and 
convince Dr. King not to go to Chattanooga, Tennessee, but to come to 
Montgomery, Alabama. That is something I think from time to time in 
human history, call it what you may, it may be the spirit of history, 
that tends to track one down, and so Martin Luther King, Jr., was there 
at the right time in the right city to change not just Alabama, the 
South, but the Nation.
  I think because of what happened in Montgomery, in Birmingham, in 
Selma, we have witnessed what I like to call a nonviolent revolution. 
We live in a different country, a better country, and we are a better 
people. I think we saw that. We saw the changes in Selma. We saw it in 
Birmingham when a middle-aged man walked up to me and said, I want to 
apologize for what happened here a few years ago. I am sorry. And I 
think that is very much in keeping with the philosophy and the 
discipline of nonviolence which was very much a part of the movement.
  Mr. BROWN of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I want to yield to the gentleman from 
Milwaukee, Wisconsin (Mr. Barrett) in a moment because he tells the 
story so well, but we tend to lose sight, I think, people that are 
Northerners and especially people that are white, people who have not 
paid as much attention to the civil right movement, and we lose sight 
of the fact that this was made up of a lot of very young people that 
are leaders in this room. John Lewis, when he led the freedom riots, 
was 21 years old, when he knew he was going to get beat up on the bus 
when the bus arrived in Montgomery. Martin Luther King was 24 years old 
when he took his church, and during the bus boycott he was 26 years 
old, and what all of that meant and how he won the Nobel Prize at 35 
and was killed at 39. He was such a young man during all of this. My 
friend from Milwaukee has a story about a man that was very, very young 
and showed more courage than perhaps most of us have in our lives 
combined.
  Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. Mr. Speaker, it starts as we were riding 
the bus from Montgomery to Selma, during the hour-and-a-half bus ride, 
or whatever the time period was, we were shown one of the PBS series, 
Eye on the Prize, and in the segment that

[[Page H1215]]

dealt with Selma, it was a segment where there were probably 15 or 16 
young people who had sort of broken loose from a curfew and were 
walking to the courthouse, and they were walking to the courthouse to 
make their case for being able to register to vote, and they were 
stopped by, I think it was the sheriff, the sheriff from the area.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, one of the deputy sheriffs.
  Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. Mr. Speaker, one of his deputies, and it 
was almost a humbling experience watching this little exchange between 
this young man, who was a very small man, and he looked very, very 
young. And as I was watching it, I was, first of all, struck by how he 
could remain so calm as this deputy sheriff threw racial slur, racial 
slur, racial slur at him over and over again, and he just did not lose 
his cool. He stood there and took it and asked the questions about do 
you believe in justice, do you believe in prayer, can we pray together, 
and over and over again this deputy sheriff was saying terrible things 
to him, things that would have made me just lose it.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, he told him to go to his own 
church and pray; do not pray for me.
  Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. Mr. Speaker, he said, I do not think your 
prayers even get above your head. That is one of the things that the 
deputy sheriff said. I was struck by how calm this young man was, and 
as I was watching this, I was thinking, I wonder whatever happened to 
this guy? How can this guy be so calm? I wonder what happened to him 
the rest of his life?
  So we got off the bus and went in the church, and we were greeted by 
some of the people that had been involved, and lo and behold, one of 
the people was this guy, and he got up and told the story from his 
perspective. And my question was, what was going through your mind at 
the time? And I said, what was going through your stomach at the time? 
The thought that you could do this with this guy who just obviously 
hated him so much, and he was able, again with an incredibly peaceful 
disposition; the exchange ended when he said, well, is my quarter not 
worth as much as your quarter? And the deputy sheriff said, I do not 
want anything to do with your quarter, and get out. Just to talk to 
this young man who is no longer a young man, he is now in his forties 
and is still involved in trying to get people voting.
  Probably one of the saddest parts of this experience for me was 
coming home the next day and going to visit a high school in my 
district, and bringing up this visit that I had, and asking the kids if 
they knew what the Selma-Montgomery march was all about. And they sort 
of had an inkling that it was something to do with civil rights, but 
they did not know much beyond that.
  I do not think we should live in the past, but I do not think we 
should forget the past either. I think it is important for the young 
people in this country to know the price people paid for the right to 
vote only 30, 35 years ago in this country.
  So it was great trip. We were also joined by the gentlewoman from 
Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee) who was there, and maybe the gentlewoman wants 
to add her thoughts on the weekend.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman very 
much. This obviously is a moving time for all of us. My thoughts were 
that I actually went to Selma for several reasons; certainly to pay 
great tribute to my friend and colleague, the gentleman from Georgia 
(Mr. Lewis), and to say to America, as he has said every single year, 
that we will never forget. And as we make that statement, which in some 
sense some people feel that that is a harsh statement, I do not, but 
some do, that as we never forget, we will continue to try to draw more 
people into the circle of friendship and humanity to understand how it 
is so very important to bring about racial harmony; not words that are 
redundant without substance, but that racial harmony in this country is 
so very important.
  The courageous effort that was made, first let me emphasize the small 
band of soldiers who marched initially across the Edmond Pettis Bridge 
when the gentleman was actually brutalized and turned back. That was 
not the so-called successful march, but it was the march that gathered 
the attention of America.
  For us ever to forget those individuals who in the course of coming 
to Selma lost their lives, the housewife from Detroit named Viola who 
came and lost her life and several others came and tried to be part of 
this. The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) wound up in a hospital in 
the North because of the experience that he had to encounter. But yet, 
as they marched across that bridge, they did not fail to remember that 
it was what they did that day that might trigger and turn the course of 
history.
  So my experiences coming across the bridge and hearing the gentleman 
from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) recount of the question that Josiah Williams 
asked as to whether he could swim, I looked into that river, my 
brother, and it was a muddy river, albeit a big river, and I can 
imagine the choices, how many times we have the fork in the road, if we 
might look at the New Testament, what might have Jesus thought as he 
offered himself on the cross in the crucifix, what choices could he 
have made to turn back, and he did not.
  Frankly, I think that this was another singular moment in our 
history, to be able to gather at Brown Chapel and sing with those 
individuals who were remembering to see Brown Chapel honored as an 
historic place of worship, but also of leadership; to hear them commit 
to the modern-day challenge that we must still fight for those who do 
not have. I would say as Martin King came, as you called him those 3 
weeks later, these words are very much of meaning to me. He indicated 
that it was Selma that became a shining moment in the conscience of 
man. A confrontation of good and evil compressed in the tiny community 
of Selma generated the massive power to turn the whole Nation to a new 
course. I do not know if people realize the fact that Mayor Smitherman 
seems to join you every year, and again he offered his deepest 
apologies and camaraderie and emotional seeking of forgiveness. I 
appreciated that and was warmed by that.
  I would just simply say to my colleagues, I was very honored to be 
able to be with you, and I hope that we will engage in some very 
vigorous discussions and debates about race. I hope that as we talk 
this evening and bring about a sense of healing, that we realize that 
healing has to come from acknowledgment and truth.
  Just recently we saw in the polls that race and discrimination is 
still one of the most divisive aspects of our society. And if we learn 
nothing from the experience of the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Lewis) 
and all who were so heroic that day, that sometimes you have to make 
the unpopular choices where there are a few that will follow you, but 
in the ultimate end, the good will prevail.
  So I hope as the Voter Rights Act was eventually signed by President 
Johnson that allowed me to be where I am today, 6,000 or so African 
Americans who are now elected officials, but more importantly, the 
doors of opportunity opened, President Johnson saying that their cause 
must be our cause, too, because it is not just Negroes, but really, it 
is all of us who must overcome the crippling legacy of bigotry and 
injustice, and we shall overcome.
  So I thank the gentleman for yielding, and I look forward to engaging 
in more discussion, but I hope that we will be able to rise to accept 
the unpopular choices to call racism and discrimination where we find 
it, and to try to work to cure it with our brothers and sisters on the 
other side of the aisle, and most of all, prevail as John Lewis 
prevailed in victory for a harmonious Nation.

                              {time}  1930

  Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. I think the question as we stand here is 
where do we go from here.
  Ms. JACKSON LEE of Texas. Quite simply, yes.
  Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. All of us represent districts where we have 
people who want to heal and get together, but I think the challenge we 
have is, how do we open up peoples' hearts? How do we get them to 
understand each other?
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from 
Alabama (Mr. Hilliard).
  Mr. HILLIARD. Mr. Speaker, I think the challenge is definitely before 
us,

[[Page H1216]]

how do we bring America together? I think this is the very beginning.
  I don't know whether Members had a chance to really discuss the 
delegation, the diversity of it; but, if you recall, it was bipartisan. 
We had Members of both parties, the Democrat as well as the Republican 
party. At the same time, we had the heads of those two parties there; 
and the congressional delegation was a mixture not only of black and 
white Members of Congress, but male and female.
  I thought this was a very beginning. It was a positive move. I think 
the people we talked to gave us some insight of some of the changes 
that they had made in their lives. I speak about Mr. Smitherman, 
Governor Wallace. We also got to change some minds and hearts in 
America.
  I think it is up to us as leaders, elected officials, to create that 
type of environment. We need to start somewhere. I cannot think of 
anyplace better to start than here in the United States Congress.
  As the gentleman knows, from this podium some of us have said some 
things against the opposite party, against opposite Members of this 
Chamber, that perhaps should not have been said; and oftentimes in 
heated debates we lose our cool, as they say, and things do not come 
out as we expect for them to or intended for them to. I think we need 
to begin here. I think this is the very beginning.
  I think we ought to come forth with these types of colloquies every 
night, every week, or every month. I think we ought to do something to 
keep the problems that underlie the real problems in America, the 
issues that underlie the real problems in America, before the public.
  If we do not create a dialogue on a continuing basis, those things 
that harm us more, that hurt us more, will be pushed aside, and they 
will not be discussed. If you never discuss problems, you never admit 
that there is a problem; you never solve it. So I think that we need to 
continue this dialogue. I think this is the very beginning.
  Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. Mr. Speaker, let me ask the gentleman from 
Ohio (Mr. Sherrod Brown), how do we get people to trust each other? 
What should we be doing?
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Ohio 
(Mr. Brown).
  Mr. BROWN of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, we saw people at their best and 
worst. We saw illustrations of that on that trip.
  I see the pictures that were on national television of the gentleman 
from Georgia (Mr. John Lewis) and Josea Williams standing two by two as 
they walked across the bridge, standing there with hundreds of people 
behind them, neatly lined up, off the street, on the sidewalk so they 
were not disturbing anybody; and the guard came at them and the police 
came at them with night sticks and just started beating them up, with 
horses.
  The capacity to absorb that violence is really what changed the 
hearts and minds of America. Perhaps if they had not been nonviolent, 
if there had been guns or any kind of weapons or any fighting back, the 
American public would not have seen the purity, if you will, of the 
gentleman from Georgia (Mr. John Lewis) and others, of their motives 
and beliefs and cause. I think that really changed people's hearts.
  The Voting Rights Act passed 3 months later overwhelmingly, because 
of what my friend did; and as the gentlewoman from Houston, Texas (Ms. 
Jackson-Lee) said, it was LBJ's speech, ``We shall overcome.'' He would 
not have been moved to say that if it had not been for the very strong, 
nonviolent, but strong actions, not weak. Nonviolence is the strongest 
reaction, because of the strength it takes to love, forgive, and to 
stand there and take it, if you will.
  I think that is part of the answer to the question, I say to the 
gentleman from Wisconsin, to see both the worst and most brutal in 
people come out, and then to see the best come out in people's 
reactions and the best come out in the strength and discipline and 
love.
  It is also I think that we as a people need to listen to each other. 
It is so rare, as I saw the President's race retreat or town meeting in 
Akron, which I attended, not far from where I live. What came out there 
was that white people listened to African Americans talk about 
themselves, and African Americans listened to white people talk about 
themselves.
  That is something in this society, that as integrated as we are on 
the surface, we are not very integrated in talking about our personal 
lives. Whites work with blacks and blacks may be on a softball team 
with whites, or they may hang around the drinking fountain together, or 
may even travel with them occasionally, but we do not have the kind of 
heart to heart discussions: what is my life like, Earl, what is your 
life like, and talk to each other that way. So much of it is just 
simple understanding that we really fail to do, I think.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. If the gentleman will continue to yield, 
Mr. Speaker, I think the gentleman really carved it out for us. Race 
and the differences with race have been so personal that sometimes we 
have not reached below the skin, which is sometimes painful.
  I want to thank Faith in Politics, the institute that certainly 
brought us together. I want to thank the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. 
Hilliard) for hosting us.
  I would like to challenge us to engage in these very personal 
discussions, because they may translate into constructive legislation. 
We are not saying that legislation cures all, but to be able to discuss 
these things and hear both sides.
  I think the gentleman's point is well-taken about we were sort of 
talking at each other, as some people have perceived in some of these 
meetings that have been going on. Let us try to talk to each other, and 
let us find out where we can find common ground.
  I leave the gentleman simply with an encouragement. I hope, and I see 
my colleague, the gentlewoman from Florida (Mrs. Karen Thurman). I hope 
we will look at this thing called the apology. When you say it, 
everybody sort of perks up with their views one way or the other.
  But let me say that I think an apology for slavery is certainly one 
that would bring about a vigorous debate, and I hope we would debate it 
not in anger but that we would get below the skin and really find out 
what makes people tick, what hurts and helps them, and how we can bring 
about a true healing, and after healing then comes reconciliation.
  I look forward to working with my colleagues, and I am just delighted 
to be able to be here with them.
  Mr. Speaker, as I take my place here in the well of the floor with my 
colleagues to speak about my participation in the recent march in 
Selma, Alabama, I am reminded of the solidarity and strength of 
Congressman John Lewis and the people who took those courageous steps 
33 years ago.
  I found the experience of this recent March to be a moving 
experience. There were those who were there in 1965, and there were 
those who could not be there in 1965.
  I was touched by the faces of the people that I saw there on the 
bridge. In these faces I saw hope, determination, and pride. And then I 
thought of the faces of those marching in 1965.
  I imagined what led these marchers to gather together in Selma, 
Alabama in March of 1965. The constant denial of civil rights, the 
attacking of innocent women and children, the injustices that were 
routinely handed down by a corrupt and racists judiciary--I say this 
because one year earlier on July 9, 1964, state circuit judge James 
Hare issued a ruling which had the effect of enjoining any group of 
more than three (3) people from meeting in Dallas county--and the 
constant intimidation of not just private citizens, but state and local 
officials.
  I imagined what these marchers saw as they stood on the Edmund Pettus 
bridge. They saw the intimidating forces of the law--state troopers and 
sheriff officers--standing, waiting to savagely beat them after they 
crossed the bridge.
  I imagined the hurt and humiliation that these proud, non violent 
marchers must have felt--marching towards freedom, only to be savagely 
attacked by dogs and police; to be showered with tear gas; to be beaten 
with clubs as though they themselves were enslaved.
  I imagined the utter rage that must have gone through the minds of 
the people who saw their sisters and mothers, fathers, and brothers, 
beaten as though they were mere property--to be treated simply as the 
property owner saw fit.
  I imagined the shock of the country as Americans watched on TV what 
African Americans had seen time and time again.
  As I stood with the marchers in Selma, Alabama this past weekend, I 
thought of the

[[Page H1217]]

power of the moment--that this march actually occurred only 33 years 
ago and that here we are, re-creating and reflecting on history.
  It was Martin Luther King, Jr. who stated that,

       Selma, Alabama . . . became a shining moment in the 
     conscious of man . . . confrontation of good and evil 
     compressed in the tiny community of Selma generated the 
     massive power to turn the whole nation to a new course.
  The recent march in Selma was, for me, as if we were telling those 
who marched in 1965 and the whole wide world that the civil rights 
movement is still moving. It is moving in the hearts and minds of those 
of us who carry the torch and flame of justice and liberty in America. 
It is moving in those of us who were not old enough to march in 1965. 
It is moving in those of us who greatly benefitted from the 
courageousness of those who were beaten by the racist police as they 
tried to cross the Edmund Pettus bridge in 1965. It is moving in the 
souls of those who support our efforts to hold on to the civil rights 
that we fought for, and regain the civil rights that are slowly being 
taken away by renegade courts in America.
  The march in Selma thrust this country forward into a new era of 
voting rights for all Americans. In his televised statement introducing 
the voting rights bill, it was President Johnson who when speaking of 
the marchers in Selma stated,

       Their cause must be our cause too. Because it is not just 
     Negroes, but really it's all of us who must overcome the 
     crippling legacy of bigotry and injustice. And we shall 
     overcome.

  As I stand here tonight, I know that we must begin to prepare for the 
confrontation that the voting rights acts will engender once again. It 
will not be easy. For there are those that seek to deny us the simple 
right to vote. There are those who seek to turn back the clock on civil 
rights for all Americans.
  The marchers in Selma were on the front line. They were fighting not 
just for themselves, but for all of America; not just black America, 
but all America.
  As we make history here even today, we stand on the front line in the 
U.S. Congress for civil rights, not just for African Americans, but for 
all Americans.
  As I stood with the marchers in Selma, I thought of the bridges that 
we have crossed in Houston, Texas, such as proposition ``A''--an effort 
which was designed to eliminate the city's affirmative action 
contracting program. We crossed that bridge by beating proposition 
``A'' and by letting the entire United States know that civil rights 
and affirmative action is not only good for the 4th largest city in the 
U.S., but for the rest of the country.
  The march in Selma represents not just the crossing of a bridge, but 
the crossing over of America from an age of slavery to freedom. It 
represents the bridge from heartbreak to hope, from poverty to 
prosperity.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentlewoman from 
Florida (Mrs. Karen Thurman).
  Mrs. THURMAN. Mr. Speaker, I apologize for being a little late to 
enter into this dialogue, because it was probably one of the most 
important weekends that I spent in my lifetime. I, too, want to thank 
Faith in Politics for what they did.
  I particularly also want to thank the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. 
John Lewis) for reliving a time in his life that had to be one of 
difficulty but one that also shaped who he is and what he brings to 
this Congress today. So, John, I appreciate that.
  I also give thanks to the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. Earl Hilliard), 
as somebody who still lives there, represents that area, and still has 
to live with the consequences, sometimes, for the time spent. We 
appreciate the participation that you gave us and the bringing of 
people together.
  Mr. HILLIARD. I thank the gentlewoman.
  Mrs. THURMAN. When the gentleman talked about starting here in 
Congress, I think it is not only starting here in Congress as we try to 
mend ourselves, between Democrats and Republicans. We have done 
Hershey, and we tried to bring some, whatever, some composure around 
here to keep us from fighting so much and doing those kinds of things. 
It is also the teaching of our own children, the healing within our own 
hearts, with our own children, starting there from a very young age.
  I want to tell the Members a story that happened to me right after, 
and any time we can talk about this, but not just with my own children. 
Right after I came back from that weekend, there was a group of 
students from the University of Florida who came here on an alternative 
spring break weekend. I do not know how many Members had students from 
their communities and from their universities that came to different 
parts of the country to participate in this, where they actually came 
here.
  This group came to work in homeless shelters. They did a battered 
women's thing, where they painted, took care of kids, and they did 
those things as an alternative to spring break, instead of going to 
Daytona Beach 50 miles away, where they could have fun.
  They were shocked, first of all, by what they saw in D.C. They had 
exposed themselves to some degree within their own community but never 
expected to see what was happening in Washington, D.C.
  I relayed my weekend to them, and I said to them, can you imagine in 
your lifetime walking on the same bridge with the gentleman from 
Georgia (Mr. John Lewis) with students your age? I think the thing that 
struck me the most of this weekend, and I say this to the youth of our 
country, go out there and see, participate, look at what history is all 
about.
  Because the most striking thing to me, John, was the young woman, I 
believe she was 14 years old, who was willing to give her life, her 
life, knowing full well that she was going to walk into one of the most 
adverse situations of her short 14-year period of time. But she was 
willing to take a stand at that early age to make a difference in what 
she would see in history. I have to tell the Members, that struck me 
like nothing has ever struck me.
  I suggested to them that they are young. They have the opportunity to 
see this. They are a part of this healing process. They are reaching 
out right now. They need to go back to their university campuses, and 
they need to talk about what they saw. They need to start the healing, 
even within their own university campuses, with what they are seeing.
  They said it just kind of tore down all of the things that they had 
thought about what a homeless person was. So the same thing hits.
  The second thing that struck me when we were at the museum, and they 
talked about the city that had grown from iron. When you walked in 
there, the first pictures you saw were black and white together talking 
about work conditions, wage conditions, issues that united them because 
it was something that they could all understand and believe in.
  And only until somebody decided to make it an issue and said, you 
cannot play cards, you cannot look into their eyes, you cannot do this, 
you cannot do that, the hatred was never there. The hatred did not 
start until somebody forced it.
  So I think the idea is that if we undo that force of hatred and start 
to reteach, that we all started off in the same room. We all started 
off together for the same reasons; but, because of a few individuals, 
we got to a point where we had to fight, or people had to fight for 
something that they believed in.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentlewoman from 
Florida for those words and for taking the time to participate in this. 
She added so much.
  I think what we all are saying tonight is that we must continue the 
dialogue, continue to talk to each other, continue to move to create 
the beloved community, an interracial democracy; continue to do what we 
can to lay down the burden of race.
  It is ongoing. We do not necessarily have a blueprint, a road map. We 
are going down this road for the first time. I think if we can do it in 
the Congress, we can do it in the larger society. We are the leaders. 
We should go out and help get our districts and our States to talk 
about race, and do not be afraid to bring the dirt and the filth from 
under the American rug, out of the cracks and corners so we can see it, 
so we can deal with it.
  I know the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. Jay Dickey) was unable to go 
on the trip, but he had attended several of these meetings. I yield to 
the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. Dickey).
  Mr. DICKEY. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding to me.
  Mr. Speaker, I want to tell the Speaker that the two things that kept 
me from coming to Alabama on this trip I will forget soon. If I had 
come, I would have remembered being with you all forever, and I am 
sorry about that. It is just something that I could not go against my 
word. But I know what I missed.

[[Page H1218]]

  What has drawn me to the dialogue with you all and the discussions 
with you all is the fact that I grew up in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, and 
during this time was a graduate of law school, practicing law in my 
hometown; and we thought we were a long way away, but we were not.
  But as things have occurred and I am now in public office, it is good 
for me to sit around in the rooms, in the room as I have done with you, 
and just go over exactly how we got where we are individually in 
relationship to race and discrimination and the hatred that we have all 
seen, particularly in the South.
  I do not think you all know what it is like in the North, because in 
the South, as a white person and as a person from the establishment, I 
was kept from this controversy quite a bit, only to later go back and 
live so many regrets. I think you all are helping me in that regard in 
that you are listening to what we are saying.
  One thing that I have, one touch that I had during that time, was a 
friendship with a man named Wiley Branton.

                              {time}  1915

  He practiced law in Pine Bluff. My dad and he were friends. And he 
kind of brought me along in this. I think he is one of the true heroes 
of the Little Rock crisis. He does not get mentioned very much and I am 
so glad to mention it now for our country to hear. He was the glue that 
held it together until Judge Thurgood Marshall came into Little Rock. 
He then went to work on the voter registration. I can remember when he 
was head of the voter registration in the South and he kept saying, 
yes, we are getting people to register but I am not so sure we are 
getting them to vote. Then when he was up here in the Justice 
Department, he was constantly giving his life. Then the Dean of the 
Howard School of Law, Howard University School of Law. He was telling 
me some of these things and I was listening but I was not really a part 
of it. But I do know that he was.
  He is now gone. He has passed. But I want his family to know and the 
people of America to know that his legacy lives on. I want to help in 
this project, too, for his sake as well as others.
  In closing, the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Barrett) was saying, 
where do we go from here? If he is getting a load up, I want to be on, 
I want to be in the load. I want to be on our way to bringing people 
together in love in God's name. Thank you.
  Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Let me just thank the gentleman from Arkansas 
(Mr. Dickey) for those words. I think tonight we are deeply grateful, 
in a sense we are more than lucky but really blessed that we have an 
organization like Faith in Politics Institute that brought us together. 
It is my hope that as a group that we will stay together and from time 
to time we will engage in other discussions and dialogue. This is only, 
as I said, but the beginning. This is just one step on a very long 
journey before we create the beloved community and open society.
  I want to thank all of my colleagues for participating in this 
dialogue tonight.

                          ____________________