[Congressional Record Volume 143, Number 150 (Friday, October 31, 1997)]
[House]
[Pages H9837-H9839]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
DENYING VETERANS BENEFITS TO PERSONS CONVICTED OF FEDERAL CAPITAL
OFFENSES
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, I ask unanimous consent for the immediate
consideration in the House of the Senate bill (S. 923) to deny veterans
benefits to persons convicted of Federal capital offenses.
The Clerk read the title of the Senate bill.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the
gentleman from Arizona?
There was no objection.
The Clerk read the Senate bill, as follows:
S. 923
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. DENIAL OF VETERANS BENEFITS
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person who is
convicted of a Federal capital offense is ineligible for
benefits provided to veterans of the Armed Forces of the
United States pursuant to title 38, United States Code.
Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute Offered by Mr. Stump
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, in lieu of the committee amendment, I offer
an amendment in the nature of a substitute.
The Clerk read as follows:
Amendment in the nature of a substitute offered by Mr.
Stump: Strike out all after the enacting clause and insert in
lieu thereof the following:
SECTION 1. DENIAL OF ELIGIBILITY FOR INTERMENT OR
MEMORIALIZATION IN CERTAIN CEMETERIES OF
PERSONS COMMITTING FEDERAL CAPITAL CRIMES.
(a) Prohibition Against Interment or Memorialization in
Certain Federal Cemeteries.--Chapter 24 of title 38, United
States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following
new section:
``Sec. 2411. Prohibition against interment or memorialization
in the National Cemetery System or Arlington National
Cemetery of persons committing Federal or State capital
crimes
``(a)(1) In the case of a person described in subsection
(b), the appropriate Federal official may not--
``(A) inter the remains of such person in a cemetery in the
National Cemetery System or in Arlington National Cemetery;
or
``(B) honor the memory of such person in a memorial area in
a cemetery in the National Cemetery System (described in
section 2403(a) of this title) or in such an area in
Arlington National Cemetery (described in section 2409(a) of
this title).
``(2) The prohibition under paragraph (1) shall not apply
unless written notice of a conviction or finding under
subsection (b) is received by the appropriate Federal
official before such official approves an application for the
interment or memorialization of such person. Such written
notice shall be furnished to such official by the Attorney
General, in the case of a Federal capital crime, or by an
appropriate State official, in the case of a State capital
crime.
``(b) A person referred to in subsection (a) is any of the
following:
``(1) A person who has been convicted of a Federal capital
crime for which the person was sentenced to death or life
imprisonment.
``(2) A person who has been convicted of a State capital
crime for which the person was sentenced to death or life
imprisonment without parole.
``(3) A person who--
``(A) is found (as provided in subsection (c)) to have
committed a Federal capital crime or a State capital crime,
but
``(B) has not been convicted of such crime by reason of
such person not being available for trial due to death or
flight to avoid prosecution.
``(c) A finding under subsection (b)(3) shall be made by
the appropriate Federal official. Any such finding may only
be made based upon a showing of clear and convincing
evidence, after an opportunity for a hearing in a manner
prescribed by the appropriate Federal official.
``(d) For purposes of this section:
``(1) The term `Federal capital crime' means an offense
under Federal law for which the death penalty or life
imprisonment may be imposed.
``(2) The term `State capital crime' means, under State
law, the willful, deliberate, or premeditated unlawful
killing of another human being for which the death penalty or
life imprisonment without parole may be imposed.
``(3) The term `appropriate Federal official' means--
``(A) the Secretary, in the case of the National Cemetery
System; and
``(B) the Secretary of the Army, in the case of Arlington
National Cemetery.''.
(b) Clerical Amendment.--The table of sections at the
beginning of chapter 24 of such title is amended by adding at
the end the following new item:
``2411. Prohibition against interment or memorialization in the
National Cemetery System or Arlington National Cemetery
of persons committing Federal or State capital crimes.''.
(c) Effective Date.--Section 2411 of title 38, United
States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall apply with
respect to applications for interment or memorialization made
on or after the date of the enactment of this Act.
SEC. 2. CONDITION ON GRANTS TO STATE-OWNED VETERAN
CEMETERIES.
Section 2408 of title 38, United States Code, is amended--
(1) by redesignating subsection (d) as subsection (e); and
(2) by inserting after subsection (c) the following new
subsection:
``(d)(1) In addition to the conditions specified in
subsections (b) and (c), any grant made on or after the date
of the enactment of this subsection to a State under this
section to assist such State in establishing, expanding, or
improving a veterans' cemetery shall be made on the condition
described in paragraph (2).
``(2) For purposes of paragraph (1), the condition
described in this paragraph is that, after the date of the
receipt of the grant, such State prohibit the interment or
memorialization in that cemetery of a person described in
section 2411(b) of this title, subject to the receipt of
notice described in subsection (a)(2) of such section, except
that for purposes of this subsection--
``(A) such notice shall be furnished to an appropriate
official of such State; and
``(B) a finding described in subsection (b)(3) of such
section shall be made by an appropriate official of such
State.''.
Mr. STUMP (during the reading). Madam Speaker, I ask unanimous
consent that the amendment in the nature of a substitute be considered
as read and printed in the Record.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the
gentleman from Arizona?
There was no objection.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Arizona [Mr. Stump] is
recognized for 1 hour.
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, I yield 30 minutes to the gentleman from
Illinois {Mr. Evans] pending which I yield myself such time as I may
consume.
Madam Speaker, S. 923 is a bill to deny burial in a national cemetery
to veterans convicted of capital offenses. During our committee
hearings on this measure, and a similar measure which the gentleman
from Illinois [Mr. Evans] and I introduced, we heard testimony from all
the major veterans service organizations. Although none of the
organizations oppose the concept of the legislation in this area, they
all urged the committee to be very careful about taking away earned
benefits from veterans who have served their country honorably.
Existing law requires the reduction of compensation benefits to
veterans serving prison terms, and there are provisions which revoke
all benefits for certain crimes, such as treason or espionage.
Our committee carefully examined a number of proposals which would
deny benefits to a certain class of veterans and reached a bipartisan
conclusion on the legislation before the House. The committee chose not
to limit benefits other than burial in a national cemetery at Arlington
or in State veterans cemeteries.
However, the House amendment does expand the types of crimes which
could lead to loss of benefits to both State and Federal capital
crimes. I want to note the role of the gentleman from
[[Page H9838]]
Alabama [Mr. Bachus] in insisting that the bill address State capital
crimes. I would also like to thank the gentleman from Texas [Mr.
Rodriguez] for his careful examination of the legislation and for his
suggestions regarding veterans who may not stand trial for capital
offenses.
Madam Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. EVANS. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Madam Speaker, I rise in support of the amendment in the nature of a
substitute to this bill offered by the distinguished gentleman from
Arizona [Mr. Stump], the chairman of the Committee on Veterans'
Affairs. The amendment is a measured response to a difficult and
complex question: Under what circumstances should a veteran who has
served our country honorably be denied the privilege of a burial in a
cemetery set aside for the repose of veterans?
This bill recognizes that some former members of the Armed Forces
have been found guilty of acts so egregious in the eyes of the Nation
that they should forfeit their right to burial in a cemetery dedicated
to veterans. S. 923, as amended, recognizes the special value of
service to our country. It reinforces the general principle of veterans
rights earned in service to this Nation may be abridged only in the
most extraordinary circumstances, extraordinary circumstances which
justify an abridgement of the right to burial in a veterans cemetery
are specified in this legislation.
The amendment offered by the gentleman today, which I support, varies
from the version passed by the full committee. These changes clarify
the intent of the committee to prevent the burial of former military
members who engaged in postmilitary service acts so offensive to
preclude their burial in those cemeteries which have been set aside for
the repose of our Nation's veterans. Veterans who are convicted of
Federal capital crimes and of murder in State capital cases will be
barred from burial in the National Cemetery Service, Arlington National
Cemetery, and any State's veterans cemetery which has received a grant
from the Department of Veterans Affairs for such cemetery on or after
the date of the enactment of this bill.
Veterans who fled to avoid prosecution or who have lost their life as
a result of a Federal and State capital crime which otherwise would
have resulted in the sentence of death or life imprisonment as defined
by this bill will also be barred from burial in a veterans cemetery. An
earlier version of this bill would have denied the burial benefits to
veterans who had not been tried by reason of insanity.
As a result of the concerns raised by the distinguished gentleman
from Texas [Mr. Rodriguez], it became clear that such a course would be
unwise. I want to thank my colleagues on the committee and particularly
the gentleman from New York [Mr. Quinn], the chairman of the
subcommittee, who worked diligently to address these issues contained
in this legislation. I urge my colleagues to support this measure.
Madam Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the
gentleman from New York [Mr. Quinn], the chairman of the subcommittee.
Mr. QUINN. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me this
time. The bill before the House this afternoon reflects an amendment to
S. 923 as reported by the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs. As
amended, S. 923 would prohibit burial or memorialization in a national
cemetery, Arlington National Cemetery or, prospectively, any State
cemetery for which a State receives funding from the VA to anyone
convicted of a Federal capital crime or any State capital crime
involving the loss of one or more lives. It also gives the appropriate
Federal and State officials the authority to deny burial to those who
are shown by clear and convincing evidence are guilty of such a crime
but are unavailable because they have avoided prosecution or died prior
to trial. The bill does not affect other burial benefits such as a
flag, Presidential certificates, or burial payments.
Madam Speaker, in crafting this bill and this legislation before us,
we have adopted the Senate's desire to include all Federal capital
crimes but, in recognition of a veteran's honorable service, we have
retained the very limited denial of benefits contained in H.R. 2040
introduced by the gentleman from Arizona [Mr. Stump]. As amended, S.
923 will not distinguish between a crime against a Federal official or
a private citizen, Federal or State law.
We believe that the bill amendment strikes a reasonable position, as
the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Evans], the ranking member, just
mentioned, that protects the status of honorable military service while
recognizing at the same time the heinous nature of capital crimes.
Madam Speaker, I want to emphasize to all of our colleagues that this
bill does not violate constitutional provisions against ex post facto
laws, nor does it qualify as a bill of attainder. This bill is an
exercise of the Congress' constitutional authority to prescribe
eligibility for any veterans benefit and, because we are proscribing a
class of persons, this is not a bill of attainder.
Madam Speaker, in closing, I genuinely want to thank our ranking
member of the subcommittee, the gentleman from California [Mr. Filner],
the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. Bachus], the gentleman from Arkansas
[Mr. Snyder], and the gentleman from Texas [Mr. Rodriguez] for their
work on this bill.
We scheduled extra meetings in my office and had meetings with the
chairman and the ranking member, and, in my estimation, when we had to
deal with some very emotional issues, we took a measured, timed
approach to end up with a truly bipartisan effort here this afternoon.
I thank my friends and colleagues on both sides of the aisle for
their interest and the time they spent. I think we end up with at least
a bill we can take to the full Congress.
Mr. EVANS. Madam Speaker, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from
Missouri [Mr. Skelton].
Mr. SKELTON. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me
this time.
Madam Speaker, I compliment the chairman of the committee and the
ranking member of the committee, as well as other Members, the
gentleman from Texas [Mr. Rodriguez], the gentleman from New York [Mr.
Quinn], and the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. Bachus], for their efforts
in this regard.
Madam Speaker, imagine yourself a member of a family who has a loved
one, a veteran who has passed on, who is buried in a national cemetery,
either in Arlington or another national cemetery such as the one we
have, one of three we have in Missouri. Also imagine that in a plot
nearby, a convicted mass murderer, a veteran, is buried.
What would the reaction of you or the family be? Anguish?
Disappointment?
This law, that hopefully will pass and be on the books, covers that
loophole. I testified before the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs
concerning this issue. I recommended then that the present law be
changed to prohibit convicted murderers and terrorists from being
buried in national cemeteries.
The current law prohibits burial in national cemeteries of veterans
who have been convicted of certain crimes. However, the law has a
loophole which needs to be closed. The existing law does not prohibit
veterans who use weapons of mass destruction against property or
persons of the Federal Government or murder of a Federal law
enforcement officer or the crime of terrorism from being buried in
national cemeteries.
This, of course, was brought to my attention as a result of the mass
murder of 168 Americans in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, and the
subsequent conviction of a man who happened to be a veteran.
Missouri, Madam Speaker, has three national cemeteries, Jefferson
City National Cemetery, the Springfield National Cemetery, and
Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery, the latter of which is in St.
Louis. We should reserve our national cemeteries for individuals who
served and sacrificed for love of country, those who in later life
would be role models for those who follow them as members of the armed
services or as veterans.
The honor that accompanies burial in a national cemetery is a guarded
treasure. The men and women who faced unparalleled adversity while
serving their
[[Page H9839]]
country deserve a patriotic and esteemed burial.
It is with these thoughts in mind that I not only compliment the
committee, the chairman and ranking member and those who worked on it,
but I endorse it wholeheartedly and urge its passage.
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from
Alabama [Mr. Bachus], a member of the committee.
Mr. BACHUS. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me
time.
Madam Speaker, I want to commend the chairman of our committee, the
gentleman from Arizona [Mr. Stump], and the gentleman from New York
[Mr. Quinn], the chairman of the subcommittee. What they have done
through their leadership on this bill is to give us a much better piece
of legislation than what we had when it came over from the Senate.
The bill is not to punish; the bill is to protect our veterans. It is
to respect our veterans. It is meant to protect them. It is not
punitive. This bill does a very fine job of doing that.
When the bill came over from the Senate, the gentleman from Missouri
[Mr. Skelton] talked about a loophole, and I think that is a very good
word. I think the gentleman is correct, in that when it came over from
the Senate it said that certain people could not be buried in a
National Cemetery if they had committed a Federal offense or a Federal
capital offense. We agreed with that.
But the Committee on Veterans' Affairs felt we should not set up a
preference for someone who commits Federal offenses, nor should there
be preferential treatment given to Federal offenses as opposed to State
offenses. In other words, if you blew up a Federal building, if you
killed a Federal officer, if you committed a murder on an Indian
reservation, you would be prohibited from being buried in a national
cemetery; but if you blew up a city hall, if you killed a sheriff, if
you walked in a McDonald's and killed 20 people, there would be no
prohibition on you, a mass murderer, being buried in a national
cemetery.
We took care of that simply by saying that all capital offenses were
covered. What the gentleman from Arizona [Mr. Stump] took leadership on
is he was interested in respecting our cemeteries, preserving their
dignity, thinking about those heroes who are buried there, and our
statement to the Nation on who are our heroes.
The Senate bill, I think, was punitive, in that it denied to the
widows, to the dependents, all benefits, and that was not what we were
after. That is not what we were seeking. We were seeking to protect and
to respect, not to be punitive.
The final product I wholly endorse. I originally introduced part of
this legislation in response to a lynching of a 19-year-old young man
in Mobile County. The bill that came from the Senate would not have
addressed this. The people that participated in the military honor
guard protested having to participate in honoring a man who had just
been executed in the electric chair in Alabama. The Senate bill did not
address that; the House bill did.
Madam Speaker, this is a much better bill, and I urge its passage,
and I thank the chairman and the subcommittee chairman.
Mr. EVANS. Madam Speaker, I yield the balance of my time to the
gentleman from Texas [Mr. Rodriguez], a fighter for veterans and member
of the committee.
Mr. RODRIGUEZ. Madam Speaker, I rise today to commend the leadership
for taking swift and precise action to prevent violent criminals from
being honored in our Nation's veterans' cemeteries.
The bill we are passing today amends earlier provisions which may
have unfairly targeted those who would be blamed, veterans' families or
veterans who suffer from mental illness. I believe the focus of this
bill on actual convicts and veterans who obviously committed the crime
with the requisite mental intent protects due process for veterans and
their families.
In protecting veterans and veterans' families from the arbitrary
elimination of benefits, this legislation strikes the resounding chord
that we will not bless criminal veterans with the honor of burial in
our national cemeteries.
Madam Speaker, in closing, let me thank the chairman and the ranking
member, as well as the gentleman from New York, Chairman Quinn. I think
the gentleman did an exceptional job in reaching out to us in a
bipartisan manner.
Mr. EVANS. Madam Speaker, I have no further requests for time, and I
yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Madam Speaker, once again I would like to commend the gentleman from
New York [Mr. Quinn] and the gentleman from California [Mr. Filner],
the chairman and ranking member of this subcommittee, and also again
the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. Bachus] and the gentleman from Texas
[Mr. Rodriguez] and the ranking member of the full committee, the
gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Evans], for all their fine work on this
bill. I think we have come up with a very fine product, and I would
urge all Members to support it.
Mr. KNOLLENBERG. Madam Speaker, I rise in strong support of S. 923, a
bill to deny veterans burial benefits to persons convicted of Federal
capital offenses. I would also like to commend the chairman of the
House Veterans' Affairs Committee, Mr. Stump, for his guidance in
bringing this important bill before the House.
On June 18, I introduced H.R. 1955 which is similar to the
legislation before the House today. As a member of the VA-HUD
Appropriations subcommittee, I felt it was necessary and appropriate to
introduce this legislation after the Senate passed S. 923 by a vote of
98 to 0.
As pictures of the Oklahoma City bombing were brought into the lives
of everyone across this great country, no one watched with more horror
than I did. It will always remain ingrained in our hearts, our minds,
and our souls.
Like the rest of the Nation, I was saddened more by the fact the
person responsible for killing 168 people in the most heinous domestic
terrorist act ever committed could receive a hero's burial with taps, a
21-gun salute, and a flag-draped coffin.
S. 923 is the right thing to do. Our Nation's veterans' cemeteries
are sacred ground, and they are a solemn and sad reminder of the price
our Nation has paid for the freedom we enjoy every day. It is wrong for
those veterans and their dependents to live with the thought that
someone who has killed so many innocent lives on our own soil could be
laid to rest next to these fallen heroes.
I commend Chairman Stump and the rest of the Veterans' Committee for
their diligence on this issue. I would also like to thank the chairman
for allowing me to testify before his committee on this very issue. All
of us, including myself, who served in our armed services are thankful
for his leadership to ensure our Nation's cemeteries remain sacred.
General Leave
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all Members
may have 5 legislative days within which to revise and extend their
remarks and include extraneous material on S. 923 and H.R. 2367.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the
gentleman from Arizona?
There was no objection.
Mr. STUMP. Madam Speaker, I have no further requests for time, and I
yield back the balance of my time.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the amendment in the
nature of a substitute offered by the gentleman from Arizona [Mr.
Stump].
The amendment in the nature of a substitute was agreed to.
The Senate bill was ordered to be read a third time, was read the
third time, and passed.
The title of the Senate bill was amended so as to read:
An Act to amend title 38, United States Code, to prohibit
interment or memorialization in certain cemeteries of persons
committing Federal or State capital crimes.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
____________________