[Congressional Record Volume 143, Number 41 (Wednesday, April 9, 1997)]
[Senate]
[Pages S2870-S2871]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                   PITIFUL STATE OF OUR LEGAL SYSTEM

  Mr. FAIRCLOTH. Mr. President, I take the floor today to discuss an 
issue that is serious and becoming more serious every year, and that is 
the pitiful state of our legal system. It is becoming harder and harder 
and harder to convict anybody of anything. You can catch them on tape, 
film them committing the crime, and then you will probably lose it; 
they will be found not guilty. No amount of evidence seems to be 
sufficient anymore. I think we have reached this sorry and pitiful 
state because we have basically let the system be controlled by 
lawyers. When you control the legal system by lawyers, you are simply 
asking a thermostat to set itself. Defense lawyers are twisting and 
bending common sense to let the guilty go free, and they are aided by 
judges--in many cases, hand-picked by the trial lawyers. The lawyers 
pick the judges.
  At every turn, you have lawyers controlling a system that makes no 
common sense, except to serve one purpose, which is for their benefit.
  The most recent example I can think of is the glaring stupidity 
involving the Oklahoma bombing case. First, it has taken 2 years to 
bring it to court when the man was caught the day after he did it. Now, 
many taxpayers are appalled by the very fact that they are paying for 
McVeigh's defense--they are paying for it. They think that is 
reprehensible. But they don't realize how much they are paying. If they 
did, they would rise up and revolt. It is not just the defense of 
McVeigh; it is gold-plated from one end to the other. He has 14--14--
expensive lawyers defending him that the working people of this country 
are paying for--14 of them. His chief lawyer, Mr. Jones, says that it 
will cost $50 million to defend him. That is his estimate. Now, anybody 
that has ever had a lawyer knows they never come in with a low 
estimate. They are estimating $50 million to defend him. This is 
absolutely offensive to every taxpayer in this country, and it should 
be. But this is a typical example of a legal system that is out of 
control.
  Now, to defend Mr. McVeigh because he blew up the building in 
Oklahoma City, his lawyers have traveled literally all over the world. 
They have been from Kansas, where he rented the truck, to Jericho. I 
don't know why he would have been there. They have been to the 
Philippines. These lawyers are traveling at taxpayers' expense. They 
have been all over Italy. They have covered every country in Europe and 
gone to the West Bank. Nobody knows what they are searching for--maybe 
for the real killer, or maybe just enjoying travel at taxpayers' 
expense. While they have the killer, they are always looking for 
another one. The taxpayers have paid for a TV and VCR for Mr. McVeigh 
so he can review the evidence.
  Mr. President, to add insult to injury and outrage to outrage, they 
moved the trial. So now we, the working people of this country, are 
paying $50,000 a week--$50,000 a week--for the living expenses of his 
lawyers. When you start talking about the working people, $50,000 every 
week for the living expenses of his lawyers--they spent $0.5 million to 
remodel the courtroom in Denver for his trial. They couldn't try him at 
home. They had to move it to Denver and we spent $0.5 million getting 
the courtroom ready for him.
  The victims of his crime have had to travel hundreds of miles from 
Oklahoma to Denver in hopes that they see that he gets justice. They 
are paying for the defense of the man that killed their children. They 
are also having to pay for their own room, board and lodging in Denver. 
Plus they are paying $50,000 for his lawyers' lodging and board in 
Denver. There is no end to it.
  How many times do the victims of this crime, or any crime, have to be 
made victims again by the very judicial system that they are paying 
for? We will be paying for McVeigh's trial long from now in the form of 
interest on the debt and the money we borrow to give him $50 million 
for his lawyers.
  It would be my thought that if McVeigh didn't have the money for his 
gold-plated defense, he should not have blown up the building in the 
first place.
  Mr. President, I suggest that there are a number of things we could 
do, and we need to start fixing a system that is broke. And it is 
broken bad. We need to change the law that allows criminals to get the 
best defense that taxpayers can pay for. That is exactly what they are 
getting. I am going to propose legislation putting a cap on the Federal 
Defender Program.
  I would like to cap what McVeigh is getting right now. But that will 
be appealed for years and years. As long as we pay the lawyers, they 
will keep appealing for Mr. McVeigh. So he will be out there far into 
the future with the people's money. The $50 million figure will run 
into $75 million before we get through hearing about him. We need a 
comprehensive overhaul of the legal system, and it needs to be done by 
nonlawyers. We need to overhaul the legal system and not let a single 
lawyer be involved in the overhaul. We need a national commission 
composed of nonlawyers to review the judicial system and provide some 
commonsense solutions to the problem, and it needs to be made up of 
homemakers, regular people, business people, truck drivers, and people 
who would bring some practicality to it and not lawyers who would 
continue to feather their own nest.

[[Page S2871]]

  I think we need a victim's rights amendment to our Constitution. Over 
the last 40 years liberal judges have turned our Constitution into the 
``Criminal Protection Act.'' The purpose of the last 40 years is to 
make sure that every criminal is coddled, pampered, and looked after in 
a very proper manner. It is time for it to stop, and the Constitution 
has to protect victims as well.
  Mr. President, I know that many Senators share what I am talking 
about and are frustrated by what we see. I think we need to start on 
legal reform, and I think we do need to do it soon.
  The first thing that will be said is, ``If you start it, the 
President will veto it.'' Well, let him veto it. I think the American 
people need to know where the President stands. So if he wants to veto 
it, let him do it. If the President says that the regular people of 
this country--or if he chooses sides with Ivy League lawyers that never 
got a murder case that they couldn't appeal, it is time to bring the 
practicality and the common sense of the American people into the legal 
system and take it out of the hands of the lawyers. The very idea of 
$50 million to defend McVeigh--$50 million, 14 lawyers. Anybody who 
would tell me that that isn't an absolutely out-of-control system 
simply has lost all common sense themselves.
  It is time we put an end to it. I intend to introduce legislation 
that will do so.
  Mr. President, I thank you. I yield the floor.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Allard). The Senator from North Dakota.
  Mr. CONRAD. Mr. President, I would like to start by using my own 5 
minutes and at the end of that time go into leader time. If the 
Presiding Officer will indicate to me when I have consumed the 5 
minutes, I will be grateful for that.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair will notify the Senator.
  Mr. CONRAD. I thank the Chair.

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