[Congressional Record Volume 142, Number 40 (Thursday, March 21, 1996)]
[House]
[Pages H2652-H2654]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




  APPOINTMENT OF CONFEREES ON H.R. 3019, BALANCED BUDGET DOWN PAYMENT 
                                ACT, II

  Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to take from the 
Speaker's table the bill (H.R. 3019) making appropriations for fiscal 
year 1996 to make a further downpayment toward a balanced budget, and 
for other purposes, with a Senate amendment thereto, disagree to the 
Senate amendment and agree to the conference asked by the Senate.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Louisiana?
  There was no objection.


                 motion to instruct offered by mr. obey

  Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I offer a motion to instruct.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will report the motion.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Mr. Obey moves that the managers on the part of the House 
     at the conference of the disagreeing votes of the two Houses 
     on the amendment of the Senate to the bill, H.R. 3019, be 
     instructed to:
       (a) agree to the position in the Senate amendment 
     increasing funding above the levels in the House bill for 
     programs of the Department of Education;
       (b) agree to the position in the Senate amendment 
     increasing funding above the levels in the House bill for 
     programs of the Environmental Protection Agency;
       (c) agree to the position in the Senate amendment that 
     provides a minimum of $975,000,000 from within the 
     $1,903,000,000 provided for Local Law Enforcement Block 
     Grants within the Department of Justice for the Public Safety 
     and Community Policing grants pursuant to title I of the 
     Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (COPS 
     on the beat program);
       (d) agree to the position in the Senate amendment 
     increasing funding above the levels in the House bill for job 
     training and worker protection programs of the Department of 
     Labor;
       (e) agree to the position in the Senate amendment deleting 
     Title V of the House bill placing onerous new red tape 
     requirements on Federal grantees; and
       (f) agree to the position in the Senate amendment 
     specifying a maximum grant award of $2500 under the Pell 
     Grant Program; and
       (g) agree to the position in the Senate amendment providing 
     fiscal year 1997 funding of $1,000,000,000 for the Low-Income 
     Energy Assistance Program of the Department of Health and 
     Human Services.

  Mr. OBEY (during the reading). Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent 
that the motion be considered as read and printed in the Record.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Wisconsin?
  There was no objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Obey] is 
recognized for 30 minutes.
  Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  I know Members want to get out of here, and I join in that sentiment. 
It was not my choice to deal with this issue tonight, but we are 
dealing with it. So I would like Members to know what it is that we are 
asking them to vote on.
  What we have pending before the House is a motion to go to conference 
on the long term. The chairman of the committee has just moved that the 
House go to conference on the long-term continuing resolution. Earlier 
today, we passed another one of our week-to-week CRs.
  Mr. Speaker, the problem we face is that with the five bills that 
still are not in law, the five appropriation bills for this fiscal 
year, those bills have come in at a rate of about $25 billion below the 
amount being asked for by the President of the United States. The 
President has indicated that if language differences can be eliminated 
so that we can remove some of the special interest language provisions 
that have been inserted in the bill, that he is willing to sign off on 
the bill if he can get roughly $8 billion back out of that $25 billion. 
So he is asking for about 30 cents on the dollar.
  The Senate, rather than providing the 30 cents on the dollar, has 
added back about $3.8 billion, which represents about 14 cents out of 
every dollar that the President wanted. In my view, we are not going to 
be able to finish that conference by the end of next week unless we can 
cut through a lot of the fog and recognize that where we have to start 
in that conference is at the Senate level. So what I am trying to do 
here tonight is to bring us closer to that point.
  What this motion would do is instruct the conferees to accept the 
Senate increases in education, which would mean increases in Goals 
2000, an increase of $814 million in chapter 1. We are asking to put 
$814 million in for title I because we think that we should make it 
easier, not harder, for kids to learn how to read and to learn how to 
deal with math.
  Mr. Speaker, we are asking to put back $200 million for safe and 
drug-free schools because we think that our communities are going to be 
safer and our kids healthier if they learn at an early age to stay away 
from drugs.
  We are adding $8 million for charter schools, some additional money 
in the education area, including vocational and adult education. We are 
asking to add back $137 million for Head Start, which is what the 
Senate has added back. In the Labor Department, we are asking that 
funding be added back for school-to-work programs, for dislocated 
worker assistance, for one stop career shopping, for summer youth, $635 
million for summer youth.

  Mr. Speaker, we are asking in the Veterans, HUD and independent 
agencies bill that we add $115 million for operating programs to the 
EPA, including enforcement activities, $300 million for EPA, States and 
tribal assistance grants, water and wastewater infrastructure 
financing. The Senate bill added $50 million or $150 million for EPA 
Superfund program. We are asking that we accept the Senate judgment on 
those programs.
  We are also asking to accept the Senate level for the cops on the 
beat program rather than the House insisting on its block grant program 
as a substitute for the cops on the beat program. We think that program 
has been demonstrated to be successful. The President places a very 
high priority on that item and will not sign a bill, in my judgment, 
unless we do considerably better than the Senate has done on this 
program. We intend in conference to insist on a higher level for cops 
on the beat than the Senate has provided, but what we want to do is to 
try to begin the process at least recognizing as the Senate did that we 
have to restore at least 50 percent of that going in.
  Mr. Speaker, we are also asking that Members delete the Istook 
amendment, which in essence creates a huge blizzard of paperwork on 
most of the groups who have the temerity to want to comment to their 
elected Representatives on the actions that we are taking. We think 
they have that right, and the Istook amendment gets in the way of that.
  We are also asking that we restore $1 billion for the low-income 
heating assistance program and take the Pell grant program up to 
maximum grants of $2,500 rather than the amount in the House bill.
  We believe that that is the very minimum that is necessary to get the 
conference off to a good start. It is my

[[Page H2653]]

firm belief that in fact we will have to go further in those 
restorations before the President signs the bill.
  The President is not going to settle for 15 cents on the dollar, as 
the Senate has provided. He is going to insist that we do a better job 
than that in protecting education, protecting environmental cleanup, 
protecting our efforts to fight crime.
  I would ask for a yea vote on the motion.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. 
Livingston] is recognized for 30 minutes.


                             general leave

  Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that all Members 
may have 5 legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and that 
I may include tabular and extraneous material.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Louisiana?
  There was no objection.
  Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from 
Pennsylvania [Mr. Goodling], distinguished chairman of the Committee on 
Economic and Educational Opportunities.
  Mr. GOODLING. Mr. Speaker, I would caution my colleagues to be very, 
very careful about this, what appears to be a very, very attractive 
package, particularly when talking about areas in education. I would 
not tie the conferees hands until we know exactly where these offsets 
are and how legitimate those offsets are.
  Mr. Speaker, I would encourage Members not to fall victim to 
something that sounds awfully, awfully good, particularly for those of 
us who deal in the education field, because the offsets may end up 
eventually being Members' favorite programs, because at the present 
time they probably could be more smoke and mirrors than anything else.
  Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
   Mr. Speaker, I want to thank all of my colleagues for their 
indulgence. I shall not take much time.
  We have here a motion to instruct conferees. We are in the process of 
appointing the conferees so that they can begin the conference. I am 
hopeful that this is the beginning of the end for the fiscal year 1996 
bills.
  The conferees will go into session and will deliberate and I expect 
we will report back toward the end of next week and that we will 
produce a bill that can pass both Houses and be sent to the President 
and will be signed into law and we can move on to fiscal year 1997.
   Mr. Speaker, let me say that my friend from Wisconsin has raised a 
number of issues for additional spending. He wishes to spend a lot of 
money on a lot of different programs. He wishes us to conform with the 
Senate on some of the additional spending that they have had, and of 
course he is not satisfied with the bill as it left the House.
  On education, I would only point out that the Federal Government, 
which has not traditionally throughout the history of this Nation been 
involved in education, has been since roughly 1970 or shortly before 
and now pays about 6 percent of the total education tab. Roughly $23-
$25 billion is what we pay, the American taxpayer pays, through the 
Federal Treasury. The U.S. taxpayer pays roughly $23 billion for 
education in this country, to be dispensed through the United States 
Treasury, but the taxpayers also pay another $200 billion-plus in the 
States and localities on education.

                              {time}  2030

  The fact is that education is primarily the province of the local and 
the State government, and while we can always look for more ways to 
spend more money, we are never going to make a dent with our 
involvement.
  I have to point out the fact that since the Federal Government has 
become involved, grades for the scholastic aptitude tests for students 
at all levels of education have declined, not increased, so it is hard 
to make the argument that Federal payment for education bills has 
really accomplished much of anything.
  That being the case, we are going to meet with the Senate, and we are 
going to have to come to a conclusion. I would only point out to my 
colleagues that, if we accept the gentleman's proposal to instruct 
conferees, we might as well not go to conference because the gentleman 
from Wisconsin [Mr. Obey] would have us agree to virtually all of the 
Senate's positions on a fistful of issues, practically all of which 
would indeed cost more money.
  Now in the House passed bill, we are within our budget caps. If we 
spend more money, we have to pay for it or else we will be in excess of 
our budget that we have passed in this House and that passed in the 
Senate before. I am not sure that we can come up with additional pay-
fors for additional spending. It is good to be a very excruciating 
debate between us, and Members of the Senate, and both parties, and 
then also to work out an agreement with the President where he feels 
comfortable enough to sign it. It is going to be a difficult 
negotiation.

  I would urge my colleagues to vote ``no'' on the motion to instruct. 
Let us go to conference with some flexibility to negotiate. Do not give 
us a mandate to agree to their proposals. If we have a mandate that is 
given us by bipartisan Members of this House, the fact is that the 
conference will be over very quickly whether or not the President 
ultimately decides to sign the bill.
  But I would urge my colleagues to stick with the committee, not 
weaken us before we go to conference. Vote ``no'' on the motion to 
instruct, and let us go home for the evening.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself just 30 seconds.
  The Senate has offset all of the funding that they have provided so 
they do not add to spending levels for this fiscal year, and all of the 
items for fiscal year 1997 will be constrained by the caps, as everyone 
knows. So this is not an issue of how much spending there shall be. 
This is an issue of where that spending ought to be targeted.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I, too, yield back the balance of my 
time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without objection, the previous question is 
ordered.
  There was no objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Hefley). The question is on the motion 
to instruct offered by the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Obey).
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the noes appeared to have it.
  Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I object to the vote on the ground that a 
quorum is not present and make the point of order that a quorum is not 
present.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evidently a quorum is not present.
  The Sergeant at Arms will notify absent Members.
  The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--yeas 194, 
nays 207, not voting 30, as follows:

                             [Roll No. 90]

                               YEAS--194

     Abercrombie
     Ackerman
     Andrews
     Baesler
     Baldacci
     Barcia
     Barrett (WI)
     Becerra
     Beilenson
     Bentsen
     Berman
     Bevill
     Bishop
     Blute
     Boehlert
     Bonior
     Borski
     Boucher
     Brewster
     Browder
     Brown (CA)
     Brown (FL)
     Brown (OH)
     Bryant (TX)
     Cardin
     Chapman
     Clayton
     Clement
     Clyburn
     Coleman
     Collins (MI)
     Condit
     Conyers
     Costello
     Coyne
     Cramer
     Danner
     DeFazio
     DeLauro
     Dellums
     Deutsch
     Dingell
     Dixon
     Doggett
     Dooley
     Doyle
     Durbin
     Edwards
     Ehlers
     Engel
     English
     Eshoo
     Evans
     Farr
     Fattah
     Fazio
     Fields (LA)
     Filner
     Flake
     Foglietta
     Ford
     Fox
     Frank (MA)
     Franks (CT)
     Frost
     Furse
     Gejdenson
     Gonzalez
     Gordon
     Green
     Gutierrez
     Hall (OH)
     Hamilton
     Harman
     Hastings (FL)
     Hefner
     Heineman
     Hilliard
     Hinchey
     Holden
     Horn
     Houghton
     Hoyer
     Jackson (IL)
     Jackson-Lee (TX)
     Jacobs
     Jefferson
     Johnson (CT)
     Johnson (SD)
     Johnson, E. B.
     Kanjorski
     Kaptur
     Kennedy (MA)
     Kennedy (RI)
     Kennelly
     Kildee
     Kleczka
     Klink
     Klug
     LaFalce
     Lantos
     Levin
     Lewis (GA)
     Lincoln
     Lipinski
     LoBiondo
     Lofgren
     Lowey
     Luther
     Maloney
     Markey
     Martinez
     Martini
     Mascara
     Matsui
     McCarthy
     McDermott
     McHale
     McHugh
     McKinney
     McNulty
     Meek
     Menendez
     Miller (CA)
     Minge
     Mink
     Mollohan
     Montgomery
     Moran
     Morella
     Murtha
     Nadler
     Neal
     Oberstar
     Obey
     Olver
     Ortiz
     Orton
     Pallone
     Pastor
     Payne (VA)
     Pelosi
     Peterson (FL)

[[Page H2654]]


     Peterson (MN)
     Pickett
     Pomeroy
     Poshard
     Quinn
     Rahall
     Ramstad
     Rangel
     Reed
     Richardson
     Rivers
     Roemer
     Roybal-Allard
     Rush
     Sabo
     Sanders
     Sawyer
     Schroeder
     Schumer
     Scott
     Serrano
     Sisisky
     Skaggs
     Skelton
     Slaughter
     Spratt
     Stenholm
     Stupak
     Tanner
     Taylor (MS)
     Tejeda
     Thompson
     Thornton
     Thurman
     Torkildsen
     Torres
     Torricelli
     Towns
     Traficant
     Velazquez
     Vento
     Visclosky
     Volkmer
     Ward
     Watt (NC)
     Weldon (PA)
     Weller
     Williams
     Wise
     Woolsey
     Wynn

                               NAYS--207

     Allard
     Archer
     Armey
     Bachus
     Baker (CA)
     Baker (LA)
     Ballenger
     Barr
     Barrett (NE)
     Bartlett
     Bass
     Bateman
     Bereuter
     Bilbray
     Bilirakis
     Bliley
     Bonilla
     Bono
     Brownback
     Bryant (TN)
     Bunn
     Bunning
     Burr
     Burton
     Buyer
     Callahan
     Calvert
     Camp
     Campbell
     Canady
     Castle
     Chabot
     Chambliss
     Chenoweth
     Christensen
     Chrysler
     Clinger
     Coble
     Coburn
     Collins (GA)
     Combest
     Cooley
     Cox
     Crane
     Crapo
     Cremeans
     Cubin
     Cunningham
     Davis
     Deal
     DeLay
     Diaz-Balart
     Dickey
     Doolittle
     Dornan
     Dreier
     Duncan
     Dunn
     Ehrlich
     Emerson
     Ensign
     Everett
     Ewing
     Fawell
     Fields (TX)
     Flanagan
     Foley
     Fowler
     Franks (NJ)
     Frelinghuysen
     Frisa
     Funderburk
     Gallegly
     Ganske
     Gekas
     Geren
     Gilchrest
     Gillmor
     Gilman
     Goodlatte
     Goodling
     Goss
     Graham
     Greenwood
     Gunderson
     Gutknecht
     Hall (TX)
     Hancock
     Hansen
     Hastert
     Hastings (WA)
     Hayworth
     Hefley
     Herger
     Hilleary
     Hobson
     Hoekstra
     Hoke
     Hostettler
     Hunter
     Hutchinson
     Hyde
     Inglis
     Istook
     Johnson, Sam
     Jones
     Kasich
     Kelly
     Kim
     King
     Kingston
     Knollenberg
     LaHood
     Largent
     Latham
     LaTourette
     Laughlin
     Leach
     Lewis (CA)
     Lewis (KY)
     Lightfoot
     Linder
     Livingston
     Longley
     Lucas
     Manzullo
     McCollum
     McCrery
     McInnis
     McIntosh
     McKeon
     Metcalf
     Meyers
     Mica
     Miller (FL)
     Molinari
     Moorhead
     Myers
     Myrick
     Nethercutt
     Neumann
     Ney
     Norwood
     Nussle
     Oxley
     Packard
     Parker
     Paxon
     Petri
     Pombo
     Porter
     Portman
     Pryce
     Quillen
     Regula
     Riggs
     Roberts
     Rogers
     Rohrabacher
     Ros-Lehtinen
     Roukema
     Royce
     Salmon
     Sanford
     Saxton
     Scarborough
     Schaefer
     Schiff
     Seastrand
     Sensenbrenner
     Shadegg
     Shaw
     Shays
     Shuster
     Skeen
     Smith (MI)
     Smith (NJ)
     Smith (TX)
     Smith (WA)
     Solomon
     Souder
     Spence
     Stearns
     Stump
     Talent
     Tate
     Tauzin
     Taylor (NC)
     Thomas
     Thornberry
     Tiahrt
     Upton
     Vucanovich
     Waldholtz
     Walker
     Walsh
     Wamp
     Watts (OK)
     Weldon (FL)
     White
     Whitfield
     Wicker
     Wolf
     Young (AK)
     Young (FL)
     Zeliff
     Zimmer

                             NOT VOTING--30

     Barton
     Boehner
     Clay
     Collins (IL)
     de la Garza
     Dicks
     Forbes
     Gephardt
     Gibbons
     Hayes
     Johnston
     Kolbe
     Lazio
     Manton
     McDade
     Meehan
     Moakley
     Owens
     Payne (NJ)
     Radanovich
     Rose
     Roth
     Stark
     Stockman
     Stokes
     Studds
     Waters
     Waxman
     Wilson
     Yates

                              {time}  2149

  The Clerk announced the following pair:
  On this vote:

       Mr. Stokes for, with Mr. Radanovich against.

  Mr. ZELIFF changed his vote from ``aye'' to ``no.''
  Mr. BERMAN changed his vote from ``no'' to ``aye.''
  So the motion to instruct was rejected.
  The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
  A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Hefley). Without objection, the Chair 
appoints the following conferees:
  For consideration of the House Bill (except for section 101(c)) and 
the Senate amendment (except for section 101(d)), and modifications 
committed to conference:
  Messrs. Livingston, Myers of Indiana, Young of Florida, Regula, Lewis 
of California, Porter, Rogers, Skeen, and Wolf, Mrs. Vucanovich, and 
Messrs. Lightfoot, Callahan, Walsh, Obey, Yates, Stokes, Bevill, 
Murtha, Wilson, Dixon, Hefner, and Mollohan.
  For consideration of section 101(c) of the House bill, and section 
101(d) of the Senate amendment, and modifications committed to 
conference:
  Messrs. Porter, Young of Florida, Bonilla, Istook, Miller of Florida, 
Dickey, Riggs, Wicker, Livingston, Obey, Stokes, and Hoyer, Ms. Pelosi, 
and Mrs. Lowey.
  There was no objection.

                          ____________________