[Congressional Record Volume 142, Number 30 (Thursday, March 7, 1996)]
[Senate]
[Pages S1643-S1645]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




           STATEMENTS OF THOMAS JEFFERSON ARE RELEVANT TODAY

  Mr. SIMPSON. Mr. President, I recently came upon some statements 
offered by Thomas Jefferson, which, I think, appear to bear some 
remarkable relevance to our current predicament. To quote from one of 
them from 1816, in a letter to Governor Plumer, he said: ``I place 
economy among the first and most important of republican virtues, and 
public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared.''
  On another occasion, he made the same point, perhaps even more 
dramatically, in a letter to Samuel Kerchival, also in 1816: ``We must 
make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and 
servitude.''
  It is when we are having the most difficulty attending to and 
resolving the most vexing issues of the day that we can profit most 
from such reminders and that much of what confronts us today has been 
dealt with by so many of our greatest public servants who came before 
us.
  One simply cannot read many of the statements of our third President, 
Thomas Jefferson, without coming upon repeated, potent references to 
the necessity of eliminating public debt. I suggest that he would be 
horrified to learn that we would ever consider allowing our current 
impasse to stand and to leave deficits and mandatory spending to spiral 
upward unabated.
  It is all very well, politically, to say that we will--our two 
parties--take our respective cases to the electorate in November to 
``let the people decide'' as to who failed who in the realm of public 
responsibility. But, in the meantime, I think we do a tremendous 
disservice to our citizens for as long as we leave this situation 
unresolved.
  Here is another quote from Thomas Jefferson, stated to Thomas Cooper 
in 1802, which says it perhaps more vividly and relevantly even than 
the others: ``If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors 
of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must 
become happy.''
  Well, I think that is the nub of it. ``If we can prevent the 
government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of 
taking care of them, they must become happy.''
  I certainly agree with that. I can think of few things more dangerous 
and more cruelly deceptive than to suggest that we must continue to 
pile debt and misery upon our children's heads because we dare not slow 
down, in any way, the current engines of spending growth, which churn 
out funding for various beneficiaries of Government largess. We do not 
``take care of'' anybody when we do this. We do not take care of 
anyone's children by forcing tomorrow's children to pay lifetime tax 
rates of 80 percent. That will, I assure my colleagues, lead to more 
misery, more poverty, more hunger and need and deprivation, and more 
intergenerational hostility than anything ever contemplated in any 
balanced budget agreement.

  Mr. Jefferson was fully acquainted with the dangers of mounting 
public debt. Indeed, one might say that the principal challenge of the 
young republic was how to discharge the massive debts compiled by the 
individual States in the course of the American Revolution.
  Alexander Hamilton was, of course, instrumental in diagnosing the 
severity and nationality of this problem, arguing that the Federal 
Government must bear the burden of lifting the national debt burden 
because we would all collapse together anyway if this was not properly 
done.
  That brings to mind Daniel Webster's remark about Alexander Hamilton. 
If you think of rhetoric today and the emotion and passion of speech, 
Webster said this about Hamilton: ``He smote the rock of the national 
resources, and abundant streams of revenue gushed forth. He touched the 
dead corpse of Public Credit, and it sprung upon his feet.'' Now, you 
can see that quote etched at the base of the Hamilton statue at the 
Department of the Treasury, if you so desire to check it.
  Mr. Jefferson, again in a letter to Governor Plumer, stated his 
recognition of the necessity of reducing public indebtedness. Mr. 
Jefferson did not always agree with Alexander Hamilton's solutions and 
methods, to be sure. But they were certainly in agreement as to the 
necessity of eliminating the poison of mounting public debt.
  To Governor Plumer, Jefferson wrote: ``We see in England the 
consequences of the want of economy; their laborers reduced to live on 
a penny in the shilling of their earnings, to give up bread, and resort 
to oatmeal and potatoes for food; and their landholders exiling 
themselves to live in penury and obscurity abroad, because at home the 
government must have all the clear profits of their land.''
  That sounds like a pretty fair description of what is going to happen 
to us. Our own Government continues to increase its share of the 
Nation's ``profits''--the savings and investment--which it must absorb 
in order to finance the massive spending increases we have programmed 
into our laws. Indeed, the burden of paying for that irresponsibility 
falls ultimately on the taxpayers, our taxpayers, our citizens, and 
cuts into the share of their own pay, which they would otherwise be 
able to use to provide for themselves.

  I fully recognize there are many Senators here on both sides of the 
aisle who are equally committed to confronting and resolving these woes 
resulting from our debt. There are sincere disagreements as to how to 
accomplish that goal. I do believe there is now widespread recognition 
that the goal must be met.
  I, therefore, close by reiterating my belief that we must not give up 
on this process. We must not give up on coming to agreement merely 
because of the disagreements which have divided us to this point. I do 
not find any reason to ``give up'' to be a convincing one. Give up 
because we believe we might hold political advantage if the impasse 
persists, or because we cannot agree on

[[Page S1644]]

the size of a tax cut? When ``our cause'' is the elimination of 
increases in the public debt, these are simply not sufficient reasons.
  As a member of the bipartisan Senate group headed by Senators Chafee 
and Breaux, I have joined approximately two dozen Senators, from both 
sides of the aisle, in putting forward our best hope of ``splitting the 
difference'' between the two sides in order to get this job done. It 
might not be the only way and might not be the magic formula which 
produces an agreement, but it is certainly better than ``packing it 
in'' and, instead, morosely retreating to consult with our political 
advisers as to how best to cope with the public anger in the wake of 
our failure to complete our work--sitting with our gurus saying, ``How 
do we get around this if we do not do anything?'' Well, you do this and 
do that. We all know what that is.
  So I suggest to my colleagues that they pay heed to these words of 
Thomas Jefferson and be reminded that we are truly facing a choice 
between ``liberty'' and ``servitude'' when we choose between a balanced 
budget and mounting debt. That is very much the choice that confronts 
our children and grandchildren, and we have now to make the choice for 
them. I do hope and pray that recognition of this will spur all of us 
on to renewed efforts to reach an agreement and to defer any further 
thoughts of simply extracting political advantage from failure. That 
would be terrible.
  Mr. SIMPSON. Mr. President, I have a comment on a rather elusive 
matter. We work in an arena where truth is always a rather elusive 
entity. Many statements in this place seem to be repeated ad hominem 
and ad nauseam, however inadvertently, without regard to any basis in 
fact. A mischievous speaker may do this because he or she believes 
that, as has often been said, ``A falsehood repeated often enough will 
be believed.'' Equally often, this happens because this is simply what 
the individual has been told, perhaps several times, and thus the rash 
assumption is made that a statement made so often ``must be true.'' 
Thus, often, in good faith, speakers perpetuate ideas and statements 
which are simply and totally at complete variance with the facts.
  To cite one specific case, I wish I could count how many times it has 
been stated as an article of pure faith by those on the other side that 
we have had however many hours of hearings on Whitewater and 
Travelgate, but only one, or none, on Medicare. The Democratic policy 
channel on the televisions in our offices also plays this old and tired 
tune. Many speakers on the other side of the aisle have repeated it in 
old and tired phrases. The only problem is, it is just simply not 
true. It is not even close to being true. It is one of those myths 
which has developed, somehow directly, in the teeth of the facts. I did 
a little checking of the record. I know that is not what we are 
supposed to do. I did a little checking of the record on this matter. I 
ask unanimous consent to have printed in the Record a listing of all of 
the hearings held in the last year in the Senate Finance Committee 
alone on the subject of reforming Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, the 
Consumer Price Index, and any number of other related matters.

  There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in 
the Record, as follows:

Senate Finance Committee Hearings & Meetings 104th Congress (Organized 
                               by Issue)


                     total hearings & meetings: 101

       Full Committee Hearings: 62.
       Subcommittee Hearings: 13.
       Total Hearings: 75.
       Executive Sessions including 3 Conferences: 22.
       Private Meetings: 4.
       Total Meetings: 26.


            consumer price index--3 full committee hearings

       3/13/95--Consumer Price Index.
       4/6/95--Consumer Price Index.
       6/6/95--Overstatement of Consumer Price Index.


        medicaid--6 hearings (5 Full Committee, 1 Subcommittee)

       3/23/95--Medicaid Subcommittee--1115 waivers.
       6/28/95--Medicaid, Opinions of the Governors.
       6/29/95--Medicaid, Historical Background.
       7/12/95--Medicaid, State Flexibility.
       7/13/95--Medicaid, Interest Groups.
       7/27/95--Medicaid, Formula Calculation.


                  medicare--10 Full Committee hearings

       2/28/95--Medicare Perspectives.
       5/11/95--Medicare Solvency, part 1.
       5/16/95--Medicare Solvency, part 2.
       5/17/95--Medicare Solvency, part 3.
       7/19/95--Medicare Payment Policies, part 1.
       7/20/95--Medicare Payment Policies, part 2.
       7/25/95--New Directions in Medicare, part 1.
       7/26/95--New Directions in Medicare, part 2.
       7/31/95--Medicare Fraud and Abuse.
       8/30/95--Medicare: The Next Thirty Years.


      Miscellaneous--5 hearings (2 Full Committee, 3 Subcommittee)

       5/4/95--Vaccines for Children Program.
       6/13/95--SS Subcommittee--AARP, part 1.
       6/20/95--SS Subcommittee--AARP, part 2.
       7/20/95--SS Subcommittee--Population Control.
       7/28/95--Debt Limit.


                 Nominations--7 Full Committee hearings

       1/10/95--Rubin Confirmation Hearing.
       2/16/95--Chater, Vasquez, Foley Confirmation Hearing.
       5/10/95--Lang Confirmation Hearing.
       6/8/95--Shapiro, Hawke, Robertson, Moon, Kellison 
     Confirmation Hearing.
       7/21/95--Callahan, Schloss, and Summers Confirmation 
     Hearing.
       11/30/95--Bradbury, Gale, Lipton, Skolfield, Shafer and 
     Williams Confirmation Hearing.
       12/5/95--Gotbaum Confirmation Hearing.


     Social Security--7 hearings (3 Full Committee, 4 Subcommittee)

       3/1/95--Social Security Earnings Limit.
       3/22/95--SS Subcommittee--Social Security Costs.
       4/7/95--SS Subcommittee--Annual Report of Trustees.
       5/9/95--1995 Annual Report of Trustees, part 1.
       6/6/95--1995 Annual Report of Trustees, part 2.
       6/27/95--SS Subcommittee--Solvency of the Trust Funds.
       8/2/95--SS Subcommittee--Social Security privatization.


          tax--22 hearings (19 full committee, 3 subcommittee)

       1/24/95--Estimating Revenue.
       1/25/95--Economic Outlook.
       1/26/95--Federal Budget Outlook.
       1/31/95--Savings in our Economy.
       2/2/95--Savings as Incentives.
       2/8/95--FY 1996 Budget with Secretary Rubin.
       2/9/95--IRAs 401K's & Savings.
       2/15/95--Capital Gains.
       2/16/95--Indexation of Assets.
       3/2/95--Middle Income Tax Proposal.
       3/7/95--FCC Tax Certificates.
       3/21/95--Tax Subcommittee--Expatriation.
       4/3/95--Tax Subcommittee--Research tax.
       4/5/95--Flat Tax, hearing 1.
       5/3/95--Alternative Minimum Tax.
       5/18/95--Flat Tax, hearing 2.
       6/7/95--Small Business issues.
       6/8/95--Earned Income Tax Credit.
       6/19/95--Tax Subcommittee--S corp reform.
       7/11/95--Expatriation Tax.
       7/18/95--Deficit Reduction Fuel Tax.
       7/21/95--Foreign Tax Issues.


          trade--5 hearings (3 full committee, 2 subcommittee)

       4/4/95--Trade Policy Agenda.
       5/10/95--World Trade Organization.
       5/15/95--Caribbean Basin Initiative.
       8/1/95--Trade Subcommittee--various issues.
       12/5/95--OECD Shipbuilding Subsidies Agreement.


                  welfare--10 full committee hearings

       3/8/95--Welfare Reform--States Perspective.
       3/9/95--Broad Goals of Welfare.
       3/10/95--Administration's Views on Welfare.
       3/14/95--Teen Parents & Welfare.
       3/20/95--Welfare to Work Programs.
       3/27/95--SSI Program.
       3/28/95--Child Support Programs.
       3/29/95--Welfare, Views of Interested Organizations.
       4/26/95--Child Welfare Programs.
       4/27/95--Welfare Reform Wrap Up.


           Exec Sessions--21 meetings including 3 conferences

       1/10/95--Organization Meeting & Vote on Rubin Nomination.
       2/2/95--Executive Session appointing Joint Tax Members.
       2/8/95--Executive Session appointing Subcommittees.
       3/8/95--Vote on Foley & Vasquez Nominations.
       3/15/95--Tax Markup on HR 831.
       3/28/95--Conference on HR 831.
       5/10/95--Vote on Lang Nomination.
       5/24/95--Welfare Markup.
       5/26/95--Welfare Markup.
       6/8/95--Vote on Shapiro, Hawke, Robertson, Moon & Kellison 
     nominations.
       6/22/95--Conference on H.R. 483--Medicare Select.
       7/21/95--Vote on Callahan, Schloss and Summers Nominations.
       9/26/95--Medicare/Medicaid Markup.
       9/27/95--Medicare/Medicaid Markup.
       9/28/95--Medicare/Medicaid Markup.
       9/29/95--Medicare/Medicaid Markup.
       10/18/95--Tax Markup.
       10/19/95--Tax Markup.
       10/24/95--Conference on H.R. 4--Welfare.
       11/2/95--Markup on revenue provisions of S. 1318.
       11/30/95--Vote on Bradbury, Gale, Lipton, Skolfield and 
     Williams Nominations.
       12/14/95--Mark up of Social Security Earnings Limit 
     Legislation and vote on the Gotbaum and Shafer nominations.

[[Page S1645]]

                      Private Meetings--4 meetings

       5/4/95--Meeting with Secretary Shalala.
       8/2/95--Meeting on the Budget.
       8/4/95--Meeting on the Budget.
       8/10/95--Meeting on the Budget.

  Mr. SIMPSON. Mr. President, I am now a member of that committee and I 
sat in on those hearings. They were often held at 9:30, 10 o'clock in 
the morning. Had I been chairman I might also have sought to have them 
in the afternoon. I was there for almost all of them, usually arriving 
after some haste ill-attained in getting through the D.C.'s fabled rush 
hour traffic from my home in Virginia.
  We held 10 full Finance Committee hearings last year on Medicare 
alone--10. They were not about abstract, philosophical topics, but 
subjects directly related to the solutions presented in our budget 
proposal. On May 11, 16 and 17 we had hearings specifically on the 
question of how to restore solvency to the Medicare Program. We tackled 
the issue of payment policies in hearings on July 19 and 20. We 
explored more comprehensive reforms on July 25 and July 26. On August 
30 we dealt with the subject which I personally think requires much 
more, much more attention--the 30-year future of Medicare. That is when 
the real problems all coalesce. This is only part of the list, as the 
record will show.
  We also had multiple hearings on Medicaid. The proposals which we 
made in the course of budget reconciliation were all explored in depth 
at those hearings. The opinions of the Governors regarding our plan was 
heard on June 28. The importance of flexibility for the State 
Governments in administering Medicaid was explored July 12. The proper 
way to calculate the distribution of funds under the Medicaid formula 
was explored on July 27. Again this is only a partial list.
  Even the issue of the Consumer Price Index reform, which so many have 
said we should ``not rush to do,'' especially not rush to do in budget 
reconciliation, the CPI reform was the subject of several full 
committee hearings on March 16, April 6, and June 6. When somebody 
tells you we have not done anything--and looked into CPI; we do not 
want to rush into it--cite those, please. Having been right there 
personally I can tell you few experts believe we are acting with any 
sense at all on either side of the aisle in allowing the expensive 
errors in the CPI calculation to persist. That is absurd. It is out of 
whack either .5 or up to 2.2. Everybody that testified said that. If 
you dealt with it, knocked off a half percent or full percent in the 
outyears, in 10 years, at 1 percent, it is $680 billion bucks--billion 
bucks--and we do not even play with it.
  The senior groups all seem to flunk the saliva test when we begin to 
talk about the CPI. ``Oh, break the contract, break the contract.'' I 
am telling you, they will break America. We are not talking about them 
or to them. None of them will be hurt in anything we are doing. No one 
over 60 is even affected by the things we have in mind, but people 
between 18 and 40 will indeed be on a destructive path.

  Mr. President, I do not know what to make of these assertions that we 
have not had hearings on Medicare or Medicaid. We have had many. The 
record speaks clearly. On Medicare alone, 10 full committee hearings. 
It seems to me be a trend in Washington saying that what has happened 
has not happened and vice versa. The media plays that well in their 
recountings of these things. Perhaps the assertions will be revised to 
state that we only had a minimal look at Medicare. That would probably 
be the result of the response to my remarks.
  I do not know how many dozens of hours were needed to spend on that 
to escape the application of that term. I also note that this work 
continues on in the current year. We had another remarkable hearing on 
Medicaid last week with six of our Nation's Governors testifying--three 
Republicans, three Democrats--in describing the desires of the State 
governments with regard to Medicaid.
  So I ask these items be printed, and I ask my colleagues to perhaps 
refrain from repeating the charge that we have not thoroughly explored 
Medicare in committee hearings. The facts are exactly otherwise, and I 
wish my good colleagues to know that.

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