[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 207 (Friday, December 22, 1995)]
[House]
[Pages H15605-H15608]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




 PROVIDING DEFICIT REDUCTION AND ACHIEVING A BALANCED BUDGET BY FISCAL 
                               YEAR 2002

  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, it was my understanding that 
the Chair was going to rule on my privileged resolution today.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there a resolution?
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, it was a resolution that 
called into question privileges of the House and this body as a whole.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is the gentleman calling up the resolution 
at this point?
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, it was my understanding that 
it was the Chair's desire to call up the resolution at this time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is now the gentleman's privilege to call 
up the noticed resolution House Resolution 321 if the gentleman chooses 
to do so.
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, if the Chair is prepared to 
rule, I offer a resolution (H. Res. 321) directing that the Committee 
on Rules report a resolution providing for the consideration of H.R. 
2530 provide for deficit reduction and achieve a balanced budget by 
fiscal year 2002, and ask for its immediate consideration.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will report the resolution.
  The Clerk read the resolution, as follows:

                              H. Res. 321

       Whereas clause 1 of rule IX of the Rules of the House of 
     Representatives states that ``Questions of privilege shall 
     be, first, those affecting the rights of the House 
     collectively'';
       Whereas article 1, section 9, clause 7 of the Constitution 
     states that: ``No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but 
     in Consequence of Appropriations made by law;
       Whereas today, December 21, 1995, marks the 81st day that 
     this Congress has been delinquent in fulfilling its statutory 
     responsibility of enacting a budget into law; and
       Whereas by failing to enact a budget into law this body has 
     failed to fulfill one of its most basic constitutionally 
     mandated duties, that of appropriating the necessary 

[[Page H15606]]
     funds to allow the Government to operate: Now, therefore, be it
       Resolved, That the Committee on Rules is authorized and 
     directed to forthwith report a resolution providing for the 
     consideration of H.R. 2530 (a bill to provide for deficit 
     reduction and achieve a balanced budget by fiscal year 2002).

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Mississippi wish to 
be heard on whether the resolution constitutes a question of privilege?
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. I do.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Mississippi is 
recognized.
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, for how long am I recognized?
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is recognized at the Chair's 
discretion for such time as he may consume at this point.
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that 
under the rules of the House, that I have an hour to discuss this.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. This debate is on the question of privilege, 
and the Chair will rule as to whether or not the gentleman's resolution 
is a question of privilege after hearing the arguments from the 
gentleman.
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, under rule IX of the Rules of 
the House of Representatives, that one which refers to question of 
privilege.
  Mr. Speaker, under the Rules of the House of Representatives, 
questions of privilege, clause 1 states, ``Questions of privilege shall 
be, first, those affecting the rights of the Members collectively.'' In 
particular it says, ``Questions of privilege shall be, first, those 
affecting the rights of the House collectively, its safety, dignity and 
the integrity of its proceedings.''
  Article I, section 8, clause 7 of the Constitution reads, ``No money 
shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequence of appropriations 
made by law.'' For those who have not noticed, this House is now 82 
days late in fulfilling our statutory responsibility of providing a 
budget for the United States of America. As a consequence of this, over 
300,000 Federal employees are wondering whether or not they have a job, 
whether or not they will ever be paid again and whether or not they 
should do for their children what each of us has been able to do for 
ours; that is, just go out and get them some Christmas presents, 
wondering whether they are going to be paid. In case many of my 
colleagues have forgotten, most Americans do live paycheck to paycheck. 
And if they miss one paycheck, then their checks bounce or all sorts of 
terrible things happen.
  Mr. Speaker, by failing to enact a budget into law this body has 
failed to fulfill our most basic constitutionally mandated duty. This 
Congress has failed to appropriate the necessary funds to fulfill the 
vital functions of this Nation and our failure to do so is inexcusable.
  As Members know, the House is getting ready to recess for what could 
be 1 week, what could be 2 weeks. I think that is inexcusable. I, 
therefore, on behalf of my fellow Representatives seek to resolve the 
situation, a situation that affects the rights of all Members 
collectively.
  Mr. Speaker, bringing a budget before the House under an open rule 
will allow the Members to amend it as they see fit. If they wish to 
include a tax break for families with children, it would allow them to 
do so. If they wish to work toward a budget that has a lower annual 
operating deficit than the one that the Republicans proposed, their 
budget has a $270 billion annual operating deficit for next year, then 
we could do so.
  But this calls to mind whether or not one of the most important 
things, and obviously the two most important things this Congress does 
is decide when and where to send young persons off to die to defend our 
country and to decide on the appropriations for this Congress. We have 
not done the second thing.

  Let me tell the Chair what has been judged to have been worthy to 
bring to the floor this week. This week, while the government is in 
shutdown, the House voted on the Stuttgart National Agriculture 
Research Center Act. We voted on the Snowbasin Land Exchange Act. We 
voted to waive a requirement for an HMO in Dayton, OH. We voted for a 
bill to extend au pair programs. We voted to designate a U.S. 
courthouse after the gentleman named Max Rosenn. We voted to designate 
the David J. Wheeler Federal Building, to designate the Frank Hagel 
Federal Building, the Timothy McCaghren Administrative Building. We 
have named four or five other buildings. We have taken up a lot of the 
citizens' time, but we have not provided a budget for our country.
  That is inexcusable. It is wrong, and this is the highest priority 
and, therefore, it should be given the highest priority and should be 
brought before this House for a vote.
  Mr. Speaker, I am not alone in this. I am a member of the coalition 
that has put together this budget. Several of the other member of the 
coalition wish to speak to the point.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Alabama, [Mr. Browder].
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Dreier). The Chair wishes to observe 
that the gentleman from Mississippi does not control the time for 
yielding purposes. The Chair will recognize other Members, but would 
again like to advise the membership that what the Chair is attempting 
to determine here is whether or not this is a question of privilege. 
That is what is being discussed.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. Browder].
  Mr. BROWDER. Mr. Speaker, I would like to engage the gentleman from 
Mississippi in a colloquy to determine whether this affects me as a 
Member of this body and the constituents that I represent and how it 
affects me.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is trying to be as generous as 
possible, listening to the debate, as to whether or not this is a 
question of privilege. The Chair is trying to extend latitude. Having 
said that, the Chair would hope very much that we could get to the 
point where the Chair will be allowed to rule as to whether or not this 
is a question of privilege.
  Mr. BROWDER. Mr. Speaker, whether this is a question of privilege, I 
think, is very important for us to establish about whether it reflects 
on this body that we are Members of. I would like to ask the gentleman 
from Mississippi, this budget that he has filed notice that he would 
like to have brought to the floor, has that budget been scored by CBO?
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. the Chair is not going to allow a colloquy 
to proceed. Members are to address the Chair so that the Chair might 
rule as to whether or not this is a question of privilege.
  Mr. BROWDER. Mr. Speaker, I will direct my question to the Speaker. 
Mr. Speaker, has the budget that has been proposed been scored by CBO?
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is whether or not the 
resolution which has been offered by the gentleman from Mississippi is 
a question of privilege. The resolution has been offered by the 
gentleman from Mississippi, and that is what is presently being 
considered.
  Mr. BROWDER. Mr. Speaker, I will rephrase my question to address the 
issue of privilege.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Are there other Members seeking recognition?
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas [Mr. Stenholm].
  Mr. STENHOLM. Mr. Speaker, going directly to the question that the 
Chair has posed, as I read questions of privilege shall be, first, 
those affecting the rights of the House collectively, its safety, 
dignity, and the integrity of its proceedings.
  It seems to me that the situation that we have before us today, in 
which we collectively have shut down a portion of our Government 
without having due legislative process followed in preparing a CR under 
whatever stipulations that the Chair might wish to stipulate, having it 
sent to the President and the President vetoing that versus a 
unilateral decision that has been made by the Speaker to say, without 
any action thereof, unilaterally closing down the Government does 
reflect on the dignity and the integrity of this body.
  Also, second, those affecting the rights, reputation and conduct of 
Members individually. I would submit, as a Member, that the reputation 
of this Member is being categorized by those on the majority side who 
seem to have decided it is in the best interest of the Congress to shut 
down a portion of our Government, to have, in fact, some individual 
employees of our Government denied their rights of employment.

[[Page H15607]]

  I would submit to the Chair that a careful reading of rule IX, No. 1, 
questions of privilege, is, indeed, is, indeed, a proper decision for 
the Chair to say it is reflecting on the dignity of the House, because 
I cannot for a moment conceive of any way we are helping anybody, 
anything, any way by the actions of the House collectively as has been 
demonstrated by the Speaker in preparing this unilateral decision of a 
shutdown.
  So I would say, read that carefully, Mr. Speaker. Questions of 
privilege shall be, first, those affecting the rights of the House 
collectively, its safety, dignity, and the integrity of its proceedings 
and, second, those affecting the rights, reputation, and conduct of 
Members.
  All we are saying with this resolution is that we believe that there 
is a way to cast a better reflection on the House and its dignity by 
allowing this to come forward. That is the argument the gentleman from 
Mississippi is making. That is the argument I am making to the Chair as 
the Speaker and why we believe that this is truly a question of 
privilege, because the reputation of the House and its dignity is being 
brought into disrepute, and I would hope that any Speaker would be 
worried about that.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair is prepared to rule as to whether 
or not this is a question of privilege. The Chair would ask the 
indulgence of Members, because the Chair has several pages that he 
wishes to share as an explanation.
  Questions of the privileges of the House must meet the standards of 
rule IX. Those standards address the privileges of the House as a 
House, not those of Congress as a legislative branch. As to whether a 
question of the privileges of the House may be raised simply by 
invoking one of the legislative powers enumerated in section 8 of 
article I of the Constitution or the general legislative power of the 
purse in the seventh original clause of section 9 of that article, the 
Chair will follow the rulings of Speaker Gillett on May 6, 1921, 
recorded at volume 6 of Cannon's Precedents, section 48, and by the 
Speaker on February 7, 1995. Speaker Gillett was required to decide 
whether a resolution purportedly submitted in compliance with a 
mandatory provision of the Constitution, section 2 of the 14th 
amendment relating to apportionment, constituted a question of the 
privileges of the House. Speaker Gillett held that the resolution did 
not involve a question of privilege. His rationale, in pertinent part, 
bears repeating:

       It seems to the Chair that where the Constitution orders 
     the House to do a thing, the Constitution still gives the 
     House the right to make its own rules and do it at such time 
     and in such manner as it may choose. And it is a strained 
     construction, it seems to the Chair, to say that because the 
     Constitution gives a mandate that a thing shall be done, it 
     therefore follows that any Member can insist that it shall be 
     brought up at some particular time and in the particular way 
     which he chooses. If there is a constitutional mandate, the 
     House ought by its rules to provide for the proper 
     enforcement of that, but it is still a question for the House 
     how and when and under what procedure it shall be done. . . . 
     But this rule IX was obviously adopted for the purpose of 
     hindering the extension of constitutional or other privilege. 
     . . . It seems to the Chair that no one Member ought to have 
     the right to determine when it should come in[,] in 
     preference to the regular rules of the House or the majority 
     of the House should decide it.

  It is true that under earlier practice certain measures responding to 
mandatory provisions of the Constitution were held privileged and 
allowed to supersede the rules establishing the order of business. 
Under later decisions, matters that have no basis in the Constitution 
or in the rules on which to qualify as questions of the privileges of 
the House have been held not to constitute the same. This means that 
all questions of privilege must qualify within the meaning of rule IX.
  As cited on page 355 of the manual, and reiterated on February 7 of 
this year, the Speaker said:

       The Chair will continue today to adhere to the principles 
     enunciated by Speaker Gillett. The Chair holds that neither 
     the enumeration in the fifth clause of section 8 of article I 
     of the Constitution of Congressional Powers to ``coin money, 
     regulate the value thereof and of foreign coins'' nor the 
     prohibition in seventh original clause of section 9 of that 
     article of any withdrawal from the Treasury except by 
     enactment of an appropriation renders a measure purporting to 
     exercise or limit the exercise of those powers a question of 
     the privileges of the House.

  Therefore, the Chair holds that the resolution offered by the 
gentleman from Mississippi does not affect ``the rights of the House 
collectively, its safety, dignity or the integrity of its proceedings'' 
within the meaning of clause 1 of rule IX. Although it may address an 
aspect of legislative power under the Constitution, it does not involve 
a constitutional privilege of the House. In the words of Speaker 
Gillett, ``no one Member ought to have the right to determine when it 
should come in[,] in preference to the regular rules of the House.'' 
Rather, the resolution constitutes an attempt to impose a special order 
of business on the House by directing the Committee on Rules to make in 
order a legislative proposal, and does not raise a question of the 
privileges of the House.

                              {time}  1315

  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, I respectfully appeal the 
ruling of the Chair.


            motion to table offered by mr. burton of indiana

  Mr. BURTON of Indiana. Mr. Speaker, I move to lay the appeal on the 
table.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Dreier). The question is on the motion 
offered by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. Burton] to lay on the table 
the appeal of the ruling of the Chair.
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the noes appeared to have it.
  Mr. BURTON of Indiana. Mr. Speaker, I object to the vote on the 
ground that a quorum is not present and make the point of order that a 
quorum is not present.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evidently a quorum is not present.
  The Sergeant at Arms will notify absent Members.
  The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--yeas 214, 
nays 161, not voting 58, as follows:

                             [Roll No. 884]

                               YEAS--214

     Allard
     Archer
     Bachus
     Baker (CA)
     Ballenger
     Barr
     Barrett (NE)
     Bartlett
     Barton
     Bass
     Bateman
     Beilenson
     Bereuter
     Bilbray
     Bliley
     Blute
     Boehlert
     Boehner
     Bonilla
     Bono
     Brownback
     Bryant (TN)
     Bunn
     Burr
     Burton
     Camp
     Campbell
     Canady
     Castle
     Chabot
     Chambliss
     Chenoweth
     Christensen
     Chrysler
     Clinger
     Coble
     Coburn
     Collins (GA)
     Combest
     Cooley
     Cox
     Crane
     Crapo
     Cremeans
     Cubin
     Cunningham
     Davis
     Deal
     DeLay
     Diaz-Balart
     Dickey
     Doolittle
     Dornan
     Dreier
     Duncan
     Dunn
     Ehlers
     Ehrlich
     Emerson
     English
     Ensign
     Everett
     Ewing
     Fawell
     Flanagan
     Foley
     Forbes
     Fox
     Franks (CT)
     Franks (NJ)
     Frelinghuysen
     Frisa
     Funderburk
     Ganske
     Gekas
     Gilchrest
     Gillmor
     Gilman
     Goodlatte
     Goodling
     Goss
     Graham
     Greenwood
     Gunderson
     Gutknecht
     Hancock
     Hansen
     Hastert
     Hayworth
     Hefley
     Heineman
     Herger
     Hilleary
     Hobson
     Hoekstra
     Horn
     Hostettler
     Houghton
     Hunter
     Hutchinson
     Hyde
     Inglis
     Istook
     Johnson (CT)
     Johnson, Sam
     Jones
     Kelly
     Kim
     King
     Kingston
     Klug
     Knollenberg
     LaHood
     Largent
     Latham
     LaTourette
     Laughlin
     Lazio
     Leach
     Lewis (CA)
     Lewis (KY)
     Lightfoot
     Linder
     Livingston
     LoBiondo
     Longley
     Lucas
     Martini
     McCollum
     McCrery
     McDade
     McHugh
     McInnis
     McKeon
     Metcalf
     Meyers
     Miller (FL)
     Molinari
     Moorhead
     Morella
     Myrick
     Nethercutt
     Neumann
     Ney
     Norwood
     Nussle
     Oxley
     Packard
     Parker
     Paxon
     Petri
     Pombo
     Porter
     Portman
     Pryce
     Radanovich
     Ramstad
     Regula
     Riggs
     Roberts
     Rogers
     Rohrabacher
     Roth
     Roukema
     Royce
     Salmon
     Sanford
     Sawyer
     Saxton
     Scarborough
     Schaefer
     Schiff
     Seastrand
     Sensenbrenner
     Shays
     Shuster
     Skaggs
     Skeen
     Smith (MI)
     Smith (NJ)
     Smith (TX)
     Smith (WA)
     Solomon
     Souder
     Spence
     Stearns
     Stockman
     Stump
     Talent
     Tate
     Tauzin
     Taylor (NC)
     Thomas
     Thornberry
     Tiahrt
     Torkildsen
     Upton
     Vucanovich
     Waldholtz
     Walker
     Walsh
     Wamp
     Watts (OK)
     Weldon (FL)
     Weldon (PA)
     Weller
     White
     Whitfield
     Wicker
     Wolf
     Young (AK)
     Young (FL)
     Zeliff
     Zimmer

                               NAYS--161

     Andrews
     Baesler
     Baldacci
     Barcia
     Barrett (WI)
     Becerra
     Bentsen
     Bishop
     Bonior
     Borski
     Boucher
     Brewster
     Browder
     Brown (CA)
     Brown (FL)
     Brown (OH)
     Bryant (TX)
     Cardin
     
[[Page H15608]]

     Chapman
     Clay
     Clayton
     Clement
     Clyburn
     Coleman
     Collins (IL)
     Condit
     Costello
     Coyne
     Danner
     DeFazio
     DeLauro
     Dellums
     Dingell
     Dixon
     Doggett
     Dooley
     Doyle
     Durbin
     Engel
     Eshoo
     Evans
     Farr
     Fattah
     Fazio
     Fields (LA)
     Flake
     Foglietta
     Frank (MA)
     Frost
     Furse
     Gejdenson
     Geren
     Gonzalez
     Gordon
     Hall (OH)
     Hall (TX)
     Hamilton
     Hastings (FL)
     Hefner
     Hilliard
     Hinchey
     Holden
     Hoyer
     Jackson (IL)
     Jackson-Lee (TX)
     Johnson (SD)
     Johnson, E.B.
     Kanjorski
     Kaptur
     Kennedy (MA)
     Kennedy (RI)
     Kennelly
     Kildee
     Kleczka
     Klink
     Levin
     Lewis (GA)
     Lowey
     Luther
     Maloney
     Manton
     Markey
     Martinez
     Mascara
     Matsui
     McCarthy
     McDermott
     McHale
     McKinney
     McNulty
     Meehan
     Menendez
     Mfume
     Miller (CA)
     Minge
     Mink
     Moakley
     Mollohan
     Montgomery
     Moran
     Nadler
     Oberstar
     Obey
     Olver
     Ortiz
     Orton
     Owens
     Pallone
     Pastor
     Payne (NJ)
     Payne (VA)
     Pelosi
     Peterson (FL)
     Peterson (MN)
     Pickett
     Pomeroy
     Poshard
     Rahall
     Rangel
     Reed
     Richardson
     Rivers
     Roemer
     Rose
     Roybal-Allard
     Rush
     Sanders
     Schroeder
     Schumer
     Scott
     Serrano
     Sisisky
     Skelton
     Slaughter
     Spratt
     Stark
     Stenholm
     Stokes
     Stupak
     Tanner
     Taylor (MS)
     Tejeda
     Thompson
     Thornton
     Thurman
     Torres
     Torricelli
     Towns
     Traficant
     Vento
     Visclosky
     Volkmer
     Ward
     Waters
     Watt (NC)
     Williams
     Wilson
     Wise
     Woolsey
     Wynn
     Yates

                             NOT VOTING--58

     Abercrombie
     Ackerman
     Armey
     Baker (LA)
     Berman
     Bevill
     Bilirakis
     Bunning
     Buyer
     Callahan
     Calvert
     Collins (MI)
     Conyers
     Cramer
     de la Garza
     Deutsch
     Dicks
     Edwards
     Fields (TX)
     Filner
     Ford
     Fowler
     Gallegly
     Gephardt
     Gibbons
     Green
     Gutierrez
     Harman
     Hastings (WA)
     Hayes
     Hoke
     Jacobs
     Jefferson
     Johnston
     Kasich
     Kolbe
     LaFalce
     Lantos
     Lincoln
     Lipinski
     Lofgren
     Manzullo
     McIntosh
     Meek
     Mica
     Murtha
     Myers
     Neal
     Quillen
     Quinn
     Ros-Lehtinen
     Sabo
     Shadegg
     Shaw
     Studds
     Velazquez
     Waxman
     Wyden

                              {time}  1343

  Messrs. FARR, BECERRA, and BISHOP changed their vote from ``yea'' to 
``nay.''
  So the motion to lay on the table the appeal of the ruling of the 
Chair was agreed to.
  The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
  A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.

                          ____________________