[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 189 (Wednesday, November 29, 1995)]
[House]
[Page H13767]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                              {time}  1345
                           A BALANCED BUDGET?

  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Ganske). Under a previous order of the 
House, the gentleman from Hawaii [Mr. Abercrombie] is recognized for 5 
minutes.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Mr. Speaker, parliamentary inquiry before we go on.
  I understand what is at stake here. But is the ruling of the Chair 
about continuing because, if we start this process, that means those 
who have signed up will have to wait a longer time? Is that the reason 
for proceeding this way?
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair cannot recognize Members for 
extensions of 5-minute special orders.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. I understand. I thank the Chair.
  I have the time, Mr. Speaker, is that correct?
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from 
Mississippi [Mr. Taylor].
  Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. I thank the gentleman from Hawaii for his 
courtesy.
  Mr. Speaker, I would just like to point out to my friend from 
Georgia, and I do consider him my friend, that what the coalition and 
what I hope every Member of this body is asking for is honesty in 
budgeting.
  I did some checking yesterday from the Congressional Budget Office, 
and even the Republican budget for 1996 would run up a $296 billion 
annual operating deficit; $118 billion of that would be taken from 
trust funds.
  I have continually heard that bill being referred to on the floor of 
the House of Representatives as the Balanced Budget Act of 1995. Sir, 
that is not a balanced budget. I think the gentleman knows that, and I 
know that, I think the people of America ought to know that.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Speaker, following up on Mr. 
Taylor's comment, as you know, yesterday I started what I said would be 
a series of discussions as to what constitutes a balanced budget in the 
context of the Speaker's admonition to us that we use honest numbers.
  I invited the Speaker to come down and discuss that if he wants. He 
is not here today. I do not know whether he will be here tomorrow. I am 
going to be here right through the 15th. He may be in negotiations 
right now, I do not know, about this so-called balanced budget. But 
every time we see on television or hear on radio or read in the 
newspaper the Speaker talking about a balanced budget in 7 years and 
using honest numbers, I submit to you and I submit to him and would be 
very happy to have a discourse with him that this is illusionary. This 
is entirely illusory in nature. These numbers do not reflect an honest 
balanced budget.
  As the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. Taylor] indicated, every 
single budget proposed from the years 1996 through 2002 has a massive 
deficit attached to it in the Republican plan. Every single one of 
those budgets is going into the Social Security trust fund. It is 
stated right in the budget documents of the Republican proposals, and I 
do not object at any time to someone coming forward with the idea of 
saying let us get to a balanced budget as I indicated yesterday.
  In time to come, I will come on this floor and propose the kind of 
alternatives that some of us are putting together and are willing to 
get behind that which will achieve that in an honest way. This is 
dishonest in the sense that you are putting forward, or we are having 
put forward to us by the majority the idea that somehow they have 
exclusive claim to a balanced budget.

  I will indicate that this year alone, and I may be off $1 or $2 
billion, a couple of billion dollars depending on what the final 
figures come out to be, but the proposal is that they take $63 billion 
from a so-called surplus in the Social Security system.
  Mr. KINGSTON. Will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. I will yield briefly because I have got a long way 
to go and you folks are on the floor every single day with this line 
and you have hundreds of people saying the same things, and we are just 
a couple of us here right now. But I will yield for the moment.
  Mr. KINGSTON. I would say this to my friend from Hawaii whom I know 
to be a learned and honest gentleman. This is an 18-inch ruler, and 
what is unbelievable to me that over here 18 inches may be different, 
if we were talking money on the other side of the aisle, and I agree 
with what you and the gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. Taylor] and the 
gentlewoman from Texas [Ms. Jackson-Lee] are saying, let us use the 
same ruler when we debate this so that balance really is balance. No 
deficit really means no deficit.
  So I would say to you in the spirit of let us get to the bottom of 
it, I am with you 100 percent on what your assertion is. I appreciate 
the gentleman yielding.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. To enter into a dialog with you on this, then, is it 
your position that the budget as put forward by the majority at the 
present time is not going to balance the budget if at the end of 2002 
we have almost $1 trillion owing to the Social Security trust fund?
  Mr. KINGSTON. If we are making by a ruler that is the same ruler that 
we measure all plans on and that is the case, then we need to look at 
it.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. If you could be so kind, would you try and answer my 
question. Is it the Republican budget position that in the year 2002 
when you have ostensibly balanced the budget that you will owe the 
Social Security trust fund $636 billion plus interest, approximately $1 
trillion will be owing to the trust fund?
  Mr. KINGSTON. Let me say this. Last night was the first night that I 
listened to what you are saying and it raised something that I want to 
go back and do my homework on. But I can assure you that I would be 
happy to answer that question afterwards and continue a dialog in an 
honest manner.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Speaker, do I have time?
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Ten seconds.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. I very much appreciate the honesty of the gentleman 
from Georgia. I will indicate to him and to the rest of the House that 
if they go back and do their homework as he suggests, they will find 
that in the year 2002 we will owe almost $1 trillion to the Social 
Security trust fund, and in the time to come, Mr. Speaker, over the 
next couple of weeks I am sure we can explore this issue at greater 
depth. I thank the Speaker very much and the gentleman from Georgia.

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