[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 178 (Friday, November 10, 1995)]
[House]
[Pages H12098-H12105]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




 PROVIDING FOR CONSIDERATION OF MOTION TO DISPOSE OF SENATE AMENDMENTS 
      TO H.R. 2586, TEMPORARY INCREASE IN THE STATUTORY DEBT LIMIT

  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, by direction of the Committee on Rules, I 
call up House Resolution 262 and ask for its immediate consideration.
  The Clerk read the resolution, as follows:

                              H. Res. 262

       Resolved, That upon adoption of this resolution it shall be 
     in order without intervention of any point of order to take 
     from the Speaker's table the bill (H.R. 2586) to provide for 
     a temporary increase in the public debt limit, and for other 
     purposes, with any Senate amendments thereto, and to consider 
     in the House a motion offered by the majority leader or his 
     designe to dispose of all Senate amendments. Any Senate 
     amendments and the motion shall be considered as read. The 
     motion shall be debatable for one hour equally divided and 
     controlled between the majority leader and minority leader or 
     their designees. The previous question shall be considered as 
     ordered on the motion to final adoption without intervening 
     motion or demand for division of the question except any such 
     demand made by the majority leader or his designee.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentlewoman from Ohio [Ms. Pryce] is 
recognized for 1 hour.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, for the purpose of debate only, I yield the 
customary 30 minutes to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Hall], pending 
which I yield myself such time as I may consume. During consideration 
of this resolution, all time yielded is for the purpose of debate only.
  Mr. Speaker, House Resolution 262 is a very simple, but very 
necessary, resolution providing for the further consideration of H.R. 
2586, legislation which temporarily increases the statutory limit on 
the public debt.
  Specifically, the resolution provides for the consideration in the 
House, without any intervening point of order, of a motion if offered 
by the majority leader or his designee to dispose of any Senate 
amendments to H.R. 2586, the debt ceiling extension bill.
  The rule also provides for 1 hour of debate equally divided and 
controlled between the majority leader and the minority leader, or 
their designees.
  The rule further provides that the previous question is ordered to 
final adoption without intervening motion or a demand for a division of 
the question unless such a demand is made by the majority leader or his 
designee.
  Mr. Speaker, those of us on this side of the aisle cannot overstate 
the importance of passing this legislation and ensuring the continued 
confidence in 

[[Page H 12099]]
our Government's ability to meet its most fundamental financial 
obligations.
  No one likes the idea of extending or increasing the limit on public 
debt. It means simply that the Federal Government must be given new 
authority to borrow additional money in order to meet its obligations.
  For some on our side, that is a tough proposition to swallow, 
especially since we have seen the buying power of millions of American 
workers' paychecks decline in the past as Washington piled up higher 
and higher debt.
  That is why it is so important to the future of this Nation and its 
economy that we get our fiscal house in order, and take the steps 
needed today to reverse the trend of spiralling Federal debt.
  H.R. 2586, as it returns to the House from the other body, preserves 
much of what was included in the House-passed version, in addition to 
the debt limit increase. There is the provision authored by Chairman 
Solomon which commits Congress and the President to enacting 
legislation this year to achieve a balanced budget no later than the 
year 2002, before the debt limit is increased any further. This is the 
crux of the whole debate.
  We owe it to our children and grandchildren to be as forthright as 
possible on such an important goal.
  There is also coverage of certain anticancer oral drug treatments for 
both prostate and breast cancer. There is badly needed habeas corpus 
reform taken from the Senate-passed antiterrorism bill which changes 
the seemingly endless appeals system that prevents swift and certain 
justice.
  And, finally, there is long-overdue language aimed at bringing 
commonsense relief to entrepreneurs, businesses, and consumers all 
across America who are unfairly saddled with costly, often duplicative 
Federal regulations.
  One key item which was removed by the Senate last night is 
legislation to abolish the Department of Commerce. This would be a 
major step toward downsizing and streamlining the Federal Government, 
and I am hopeful that the House can revisit this critical issue again 
soon.
  The bill soon to be before us is not just about temporarily 
increasing the debt limit. And it is not about political brinkmanship, 
as so many of our critics have written. What it is about is making a 
serious, meaningful downpayment on our commitment to balancing the 
budget in 7 years.
  With this legislation, and the changes made to it by the other body, 
we have the opportunity to cut spending, to shrink the size and reach 
of the Federal bureaucracy, and to give the American people new hope in 
our ability to do more with less.
  This is an opportunity we simply cannot afford to miss, Mr. Speaker, 
and we invite the President and our friends in the minority to join us 
in this historic effort. Unfortunately, as today's Washington Post 
describes, the President seems focused instead on preparing for a 
Governmentwide shutdown.
  I believe the dedicated Federal workers, who keep the Government 
running day-in and day-out, deserve much better than that. Instead of 
preparing for a shutdown, we are doing our best to put this country on 
a sound financial footing--something that will benefit all Federal 
workers, whether they live and work in the Washington area, or 
Columbus, OH, or anywhere else.
  Mr. Speaker, we do not want to see the lives of Federal workers and 
their families disrupted by a completely unnecessary shut down of the 
Federal Government.
  Under the terms of this simple and fair rule, which was adopted 
unanimously by the Rules Committee last evening, there will be ample 
time to debate the merits of any motion if offered by the majority 
leader to dispose of Senate amendments to H.R. 2586.
  As our colleagues know, time is getting short, and we must act 
responsibly and expeditiously to pass both the continuing resolution 
and the debt ceiling extension.
  Anything less would clearly show that we have abandoned our promise 
to the hard-working taxpayers of this country to govern sensibly and 
with a firm commitment to fiscal responsibility.
  I urge my colleagues to adopt this rule and to get on with the 
business the people sent us here to conduct.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  (Mr. HALL of Ohio asked and was given permission to revise and extend 
his remarks.)
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, House Resolution 262 is a rule which 
will allow consideration of H.R. 2586 and Senate amendments to increase 
temporarily the Federal debt ceiling. As my colleague, the gentlewoman 
from Ohio [Ms. Pryce], described, this rule provides 1 hour of general 
debate, equally divided and controlled by the majority leader and the 
minority leader or their designees.
  The level of the debt ceiling is the amount of money that the Federal 
Government can borrow to pay its debts. As Federal borrowing increases, 
the debt ceiling must be raised. Failure to raise the debt ceiling 
would prevent the Federal Government from paying its bills.
  Today is Veterans Day. Traditionally, it is a day that House Members 
return to their districts to honor America's veterans. Instead, we are 
here in the House Chamber taking up a bill that is necessary to ensure 
the financial soundness of the U.S. Treasury.
  The immediate problem we face is the need to raise the debt ceiling. 
This requires a simple solution. Instead, we have a huge bill full of 
complex and controversial sweeteners added at the last minute to win 
enough votes for passage.
  If we had done the right thing and passed a clean bill--without extra 
sweeteners, the bill would probably be signed into law by now--and we 
could be home with our veterans.
  Mr. Speaker, the bill we are taking up is basically the same bill we 
took up yesterday, except the Commerce Department provision was 
dropped. This is the wrong way to do it, and this is a bad bill.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the distinguished 
gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. Moakley], former chairman of the 
Committee on Rules.
  Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, for the second time today, this House is 
considering a bill that should be high above politics.
  And, once again today, the Republican House will pass a bill that the 
President will be forced to veto.
  Mr. Speaker, this is no way to run the Congress.
  If the majority doesn't do its job responsibly, if the majority 
doesn't put politics aside, a lot of Americans are going to suffer.
  People with pension plans will be hurt, people with adjustable rate 
mortgages will be hurt, people with payroll deduction plans will be 
hurt, people who served in the military will not get their benefits.
  This will add insult to injury. Today is Veterans Day, the day we are 
supposed to honor our country's soldiers, not use them as pawns in a 
political game.
  Mr. Speaker, the issue of whether the United States defaults on its 
loans should be high above politics.
  Let's act responsibly, defeat this rule and let's pass a clean debt-
limit extension.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from Florida [Mr. Gibbons], the distinguished ranking minority member 
of the Committee on Ways and Means.
  Mr. GIBBONS. Mr. Speaker, it is sad that we must be here today. This 
is business that should have been completed in June or July of this 
year.
  The reason why it has not been completed is because of totally inept 
leadership on the part of the Speaker of this body.
  As all of us know, a year ago there was an election. We Democrats 
lost the election. We went into minority status around here and the 
Republicans took control. They have sufficient votes to run this House 
and to do anything they want to. We are in this position today because 
the Republicans simply cannot get their own act together to do the 
right thing, to pass the appropriations bills.

[[Page H 12100]]

  Mr. Speaker, they have not been passed. There are still nine of them 
floating around out in space somewhere and they are being held up by 
the Republicans, not by the Democrats.
  This debt-ceiling legislation should have been handled in July. Every 
Republican in this House has voted at least three times to raise the 
debt limit before to a total of $5.5 trillion. They have already voted 
on that three times. Republican members of the Committee on Ways and 
Means have voted on it four times; never raised a question about 
raising the debt ceiling.
  But here at the last minute, because they have got some bells and 
whistles they want to attach that they cannot get past their own 
Members, they are trying to stick them on nongermane legislation.
  Mr. Speaker, we Democrats are not holding up this House. We are not 
forcing this crisis. The President is not forcing this crisis. The 
appropriations bills simply have not gotten to him. He has not had a 
chance to exercise his authority that is required by the Constitution 
over these bills.
  Congress has not had a chance to vote on a debt ceiling that the 
Republicans will turn loose. They keep changing the dates, changing the 
amounts, and all of those things.
  Mr. Speaker, I say to the American public, ``Do not blame us, 
American folks. Blame the Republicans. You put them in charge, and they 
are simply not doing their duty.''
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the 
distinguished gentleman from New York [Mr. Solomon], chairman of the 
Committee on Rules.
  Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I say to the gentleman from Florida [Mr. 
Gibbons], my good friend who is just walking off the floor, the 
gentleman is a Member that I have great admiration and respect for, but 
I really was taken aback by the gentleman's statement a few minutes ago 
when we almost had to rise and have his words taken down.

                              {time}  1115

  I would not do that because of the respect that I have for him. But 
one cannot stand up here and talk about the inept leadership of the 
Speaker. That goes against the rules of the House.
  Having said that, I just have great admiration and respect for 
another Member of this House, and that is Newt Gingrich. The gentleman 
from Georgia [Mr. Gingrich] has shown unbelievable leadership in 
getting us to this point that we are in now. It is such a serious 
problem that we have this sea of red ink that is literally ruining this 
country. It has turned us into a debtor nation. We cannot continue down 
this path.
  That is why we are doing everything that we can to leverage 
legislation that we have been gagged from doing over the last 40 years. 
Things like product liability reform, so badly needed to create jobs in 
this country so that business and industry could be successful, 
regulatory reform. I come from the State of New York where we are the 
highest taxed State in the Nation. We are the most overregulated State 
in the Nation. Our businesses cannot survive there. They are leaving 
with thousands of manufacturing jobs, not only leaving the State but 
leaving the country.
  What do we have in this bill? We have regulatory reform. Beyond that, 
we have my amendment, which simply states, I am going to read it to 
Members. I would like my colleagues to tell me what is wrong with this. 
It says, with the enactment of this act, the President of the United 
States and this Congress--my colleagues, that is you and I--commit 
themselves to enacting legislation in calendar year 1995 to achieve a 
balanced budget not later than the fiscal year 2002. That is 7 years 
down the road.
  It goes on to say, it is further the sense of Congress that the 
Congress will not pass an increase in the permanent statutory limit on 
the public debt until such time that the President has signed into law 
the balanced budget legislation referred to in this section.
  Now, we finally have gotten President Clinton to come around from 
saying we could not balance the budget, to say that we could do it in 
10 years. Then we finally got him to say, well, maybe we could do it in 
8 or 9; and now he is saying maybe we could do it in 7 years. That is 
all we are saying in this piece of legislation.
  You know, another thing in here, it surprised me, my good friend, the 
gentleman from Florida [Mr. Gibbons], because what we do is we say that 
the President or the administration or anybody else cannot dip into 
Social Security trust funds or Federal Government retirement funds. I 
do not know about you, but when I hold town meetings, that is the thing 
they complain about the most: You people are fiscally irresponsible. 
Leave our money alone. That is what we do in this continuing 
resolution.
  Then we have a fourth item which has to do with breast cancer and 
prostate cancer. Everybody in this room supports that legislation, so 
what is wrong with tacking it on here?
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. SOLOMON. I yield to the gentleman from Hawaii.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman did ask a question; will 
anybody come down and respond? The reason that I am here is, the 
gentleman said the point of what he is proposing right now is that we 
not touch the Social Security trust fund.
  Why would the gentleman put that in at this stage when the budget 
that has been proposed for balancing in the year 2002 by the majority 
does precisely that to the tune of $636 billion.
  Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman is absolutely incorrect. In 
other words, we have a continuing resolution. It is a clean resolution 
that the President could sign and keep the Government functioning 
except for these items I have just read off. One of them was, we cannot 
dip into the Social Security trust fund because it is not our money to 
dip into. It is my money. It is the gentleman's money. I do not want 
him dipping into my funds.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Mr. Speaker, if the gentleman will continue to 
yield, I understand. I am all for it. But how is it possible then for 
him to make that proposal at this juncture when the budget that has 
been put forward by the majority does precisely that? It dips into the 
Social Security trust fund, to the ostensible surplus, to the tune of--
I will tell the gentleman what the numbers are. They start in 1996 with 
$63 billion. It is in the gentleman's budget document, the gentleman 
from New York [Mr. Solomon].
  Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, let me tell the gentleman this. In the 
reconciliation bill that has come before this body, it balances the 
budget. It does not touch trust funds at all, and we are not going to.
  What I am asking the gentleman is, let us pass this clean CR, clean 
continuing resolution that has these couple of items in there which 
none of us object to. So what is the objection? Let us pass it. Let us 
go home. Let us make our veterans speeches and meet with our veterans 
and come back here Monday.
  Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the gentleman yielding 
time to me and conclude by saying that I think the reason that I think 
we find great difficulty in carrying out what the gentleman requests of 
us is that it runs exactly contradictory to what the reconciliation 
budget will present to us.
  Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, the legislation that is before us right now 
is legislation that we can continue the Government functioning over the 
next 10 days or until December 13. That is what we need. We know that 
the debt limit is not going to run out in between now and the time that 
this would be signed into law. Let us go ahead and do it. Let us drop 
the rhetoric, and let us get the job done.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from Colorado [Mr. Skaggs].
  Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Speaker, we have heard many comments that this is 
Veterans Day. As a veteran, I cherish the opportunity to recognize the 
enormous contributions that the men and women in uniform have made to 
this country. We honor them and the free Nation they fought for, the 
freedoms they defended, including the core freedom of speech and 
association.
  Now, what does one of the bills pending before the House right now 
do? It includes an absolutely crazy provision that will regulate the 
speech of veterans organizations.
  Suddenly, it dawns on me why things have been dragged out, in fact, 
to make 

[[Page H 12101]]
sure that Members cannot get home on Veterans Day. Maybe it was 
deliberate, the mismanagement of the process that has kept us here as 
long as it has.
  To my colleagues, I hope you will be able to go home and let your 
veterans organizations know what we have really done to them. I hope 
that you will be proud to let them know that we are restricting the 
ability of the Vietnam Veterans of America to speak out about substance 
abuse and treatment, that we are trying to gag the Disabled American 
Veterans as they push the Veterans Administration to deal with 
disability issues. Is that how we want to honor veterans on their day?
  What a disservice, what a dishonor, not just to our veterans but to 
the Constitution they fought for.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, just so we are clear about this, the 
provision to which the gentleman just spoke is not a part of debt 
ceiling increase. That was on the CR which was the last rule we just 
voted upon, just so everybody knows to keep those two straight.
  Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from Texas [Mr. Edwards].
  Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Speaker, I have heard several of our Republican 
colleagues saying that we should keep our speeches short today so we 
can get home and give our speeches tomorrow to our veterans.
  As the ranking member of the Subcommittee on Hospitals and Health 
Care, I have a better idea. Let us cancel our speeches and stay here in 
Washington as we should to keep Government from being shut down. We are 
on the brink of shutting down VA regional offices all over America that 
provide critical services to the men and women who served our country 
in uniform. We do them no honor by speaking to them tomorrow, by going 
on vacation in our districts this weekend while Government is on the 
brink of shutting down veterans health care services, many crucial 
services in our VA hospitals, and shutting down our VA regional 
offices.
  That is irresponsible. What the Republican leadership is doing by 
letting us go on vacation this weekend is basically saying that to the 
veterans who are out there at sea at risk of drowning, the homeless, 
the sick, the ill, we are saying, we are going to take a vacation this 
weekend. We are going to go back home to our districts and speak to 
veterans. And by the way, do not drown over the weekend. We are going 
to come back on Monday and we might throw you a liferaft. We might 
think about your interests at that time.
  That is irresponsible. I would like some Member of the Republican 
leadership to say why we are honoring veterans by risking the shutdown 
of their services by leaving this weekend. We know this bill is going 
to be vetoed. If we truly care about veterans, let us stay here and 
keep working on a bipartisan basis to keep that health care service 
that our veterans have fought for and the service that they deserve 
open.
  It is wrong. It is irresponsible. It is hypocritical to our American 
veterans to say that we are going to go home and give our speeches this 
weekend when we are risking the life preserver they desperately need.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I do not know about the gentleman, but when I 
go home I do not consider it being on vacation. I work in my district. 
I talk to my constituents. I visit with my veterans. That is not 
vacationing. That is an important part of this job. Every Member should 
consider it so.
  Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from Texas [Mr. Doggett].
  Mr. DOGGETT. Mr. Speaker, even at this moment when we stand on the 
brink of fiscal disaster, on the brink of closing down services upon 
which millions of Americans depend, our Republican friends cannot get 
themselves out of the clutches of special interest lobbies. On this 
issue of debt limit, they came to the floor yesterday afternoon and 
added something totally irrelevant, over 200 pages endorsed by a series 
of special interest lobbies, written in the dead of night, never 
presented for a hearing, never heard or discussed on this floor with 
what they call regulatory reform.
  What it means to those veterans that are watching is that we are 
going to engage in unilateral disarmament. Yes, the power to protect 
the people of the United States from unsafe products, to protect them 
from foul water and foul air, we are going to disarm unless the lobby 
approves. In fact, no new regulations can go into effect unless some 
peer review committee that includes lobbyists says it is OK. You let 
the tobacco companies decide how to regulate tobacco. That is the 
theory of this that we are debating right now. That is included here 
along with the debt limit though it has absolutely nothing to do with 
it.
  The last measure we considered included lobby control. What kind of 
lobby does it control? The Texas Council on Family Violence will be 
running a hotline to help battered women all over this country. Because 
they take Federal dollars to administer that hotline, they cannot come 
to Washington and speak out about the wrongs in this Republican budget. 
Do they control the polluters and the loophole lawyers? No.
  They want to muzzle the National Council on Senior Citizens because 
it had the courage to speak out against the cuts on Medicare that are 
in this budget. And the latest chapter, it is in today's Wall Street 
Journal with the title ``Gingrich Backer Had Unusual Access'' as a 
volunteer in the Speaker's office, that the Speaker contracted out his 
own office to a special interest lobbyist.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from Texas [Mr. Chapman].
  Mr. CHAPMAN. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding time to 
me.
  I would say to all of my colleagues that in the last Congress I 
introduced major regulatory reform legislation; we call it the Sunset 
Reform Act. It was reintroduced in this Congress. This major regulatory 
reform relief provision has now passed through the subcommittee with a 
very strong bipartisan support. It is out of the full committee, and it 
is pending on the calendar of this House of Representatives.
  In the contract on America, there is also regulatory reform and there 
was habeas corpus reform. What we find and what I want to tell my 
colleagues is this Member of Congress who has been a leader on these 
issues knew nothing about this late-night stealth attack on the 
potential strength of the Treasury of the United States when the 
Republican Party puts into a debt ceiling extension major regulatory 
reform that has not been conferenced by the House and Senate, that does 
the damage the previous gentleman spoke to, that was a part of the 
contract on America that had not passed the House and the Senate. And 
they did the same with habeas corpus reform, one of their contract 
provisions which has gone nowhere. They are using the potential fiscal 
health of the entire Nation as their medium to accomplish these goals.

                              {time}  1130

  This is wrong, and Americans know it. We should not pass this rule, 
we should not pass this legislation, and of course the President will 
veto this bill, as he should. We ought not to be a part of this. We 
ought to be doing what is right. We ought to be working on Veterans Day 
to make sure that our veterans, and our seniors, and our children, and 
the weakest among us have an opportunity to participate in this great 
society.
  This Republican budget is a disaster, this rule is a disaster, this 
entire process is wrong, and we should reject it.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman 
from California [Ms. Waters].
  Ms. WATERS. Mr. Speaker and Members, I never thought I would see the 
day that Republicans would endanger the well-being of veterans. We have 
come to a point in time where veterans stand to be denied the ability 
to have their claims processed because of what we are going through 
here today.
  Mr. Speaker, I serve on the Committee on Veterans' Affairs, and I 
watched many Members from the other side of the aisle wave the flag, 
and talk about being in the parades, and how much they love veterans. 
Well, we need to be here today telling the real story; on this side of 
the aisle I think we are doing that.

[[Page H 12102]]

  Mr. Speaker, what we are saying today is, ``Republicans, who are 
willing to threaten the well-being of veterans with this brinksmanship, 
we need to stop this foolishness. We need not go home. We need not go 
home, and march in those parades, and tell the veterans how much we 
love them when, in fact, we are hurting them in this process.'' But the 
Republicans budget would keep them at spending levels for 1995, Mr. 
Speaker, which means that over 125,000 veterans would be denied health 
care services.
  This charade needs to stop. Let us remain here until we can get it 
right. Let us take the machoism out of this fight. Let us do what is 
necessary to fund the services and programs of this Nation. Let us not 
use veterans and the people of this country as tools in this bickering. 
It is time for us to do the right thing.
  Veterans, get on the telephone. Call into this House. Let the 
Republicans know that they need to stop this. If they want to honor our 
veterans on Veterans Day, tell them to stop the brinksmanship. Do not 
put something on the President's desk that they know he is going to 
veto and cause our veterans to be at risk.
  Ms. PRYCE of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of 
my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from Illinois [Mr. Durbin].
  Mr. DURBIN. Mr. Speaker, allow me to explain what this is all about.
  The debt ceiling limit of the United States is the authority of this 
Federal Government to borrow money. Because the United States has a 
national debt, our Treasury must issue bonds and other securities to 
secure that debt on a regular basis. Congress must give them authority 
to do so.
  None of us like the fact that our Nation is in debt, but we are not 
about to lose our credit rating as a nation. So we reluctantly and 
sometimes painfully vote for an extension of this so-called debt 
ceiling limit so that the full faith and credit of the United States of 
America is not encumbered.
  This vote today on the debt ceiling limit, which is the subject of 
this rule, is going to create a fiscal crisis in this country because 
the Republicans have insisted that we will not just vote on this issue. 
They want to throw in a lot of extraneous issues. They want to throw in 
regulatory reform.
  Mr. Speaker, that sounds so simple. It turns out to be a 200-page 
amendment drawn up by special interest groups, by polluters, corporate 
polluters, who want to make sure that they have their say in the 
process of establishing environmental regulations, establishing the 
standards by which we regulate the water, the streams, the air of this 
country. What in the world does this have to do with the debt ceiling? 
Nothing. It is a political gimmick. It is trying to put pressure on the 
President to sign a bill he does not accept.
  Mr. Speaker, the President will veto this bill, and it is a sad 
commentary that we have reached this point. Some Republicans have gone 
so far as to say, ``Don't worry about the debt ceiling limit. We are 
just going to postpone paying American taxpayers their income tax 
refunds next year; we think they'll understand.'' Wait a minute. Have 
my colleagues spoken to those families and those taxpayers? They are 
counting on those checks.
  They have also suggested, ``Don't put the payroll taxes in the Social 
Security trust fund for a while. That will carry us on.'' That shows us 
the limits they are prepared to go to force this shutdown strategy of 
the Federal Government.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, we continue to reserve the balance of our 
time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentlewoman 
from Texas [Ms. Jackson-Lee].
  (Ms. JACKSON-LEE asked and was given permission to revise and extend 
her remarks.)
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE. Mr. Speaker, I thank the distinguish gentleman from 
Ohio [Mr. Hall] for yielding this time to me, and I want to acknowledge 
my distinguished friend from New York who previously spoke to this 
issue and mentioned the great service that he gave to this country, and 
I certainly acknowledge it. Being my age and being a female, I did not 
have the honor, but I can say that I have come from a military family 
that appreciated the desire and the need to serve their country and was 
honored for doing so.
  I can come to my colleagues this morning, however, and speak to them 
as a parent raising a 10-year-old and a 15-year-old, and I can assure 
my colleagues that, when I hear from my constituents in Houston, they 
simply ask to pass a straightforward continuing resolution, streamlined 
to deal with the issues at head, because those of us who are parents 
and working every day, we know the bottom line: To get the job done. 
Mr. Speaker, this resolution proposed by the Republicans, my friends, 
does not get the job done.
  Mr. Speaker, what it says to the Catholic charities that many of us 
benefit from throughout this Nation is that they cannot come to express 
their views about services to the elderly because they are lobbyists 
and they take Federal money. It denies them the right to free speech. 
That is what is in this continuing resolution, which is simply to keep 
the doors open.
  In addition, then it says to Federal employees, like those who--some 
gave their life in Oklahoma City, ``We don't care about you and the 
fact that the Social Security Administration may have to deny new 
recipients their eligibility checks, individuals who have come upon 
hard times, disabled senior citizens and otherwise.'' They will not be 
able to be taken care of in the manner that they have taken care of 
this Nation by paying their taxes.
  Mr. Speaker, that is what this continuing resolution debate is all 
about, and then we ask about the Commerce Department. Someone seems to 
want to raise that up as the whipping boy, but do my colleagues know 
that the Constitution included the fact that this Government is 
responsible for commerce? Do my colleagues know that commerce creates 
jobs and that countries like Germany and Japan are in fact uplifting 
and enhancing their opportunities to compete? We need jobs in this 
Nation. Get a downsized Commerce Department; I do not want a big 
bloated Department, but it can be done. This eliminates the opportunity 
to create jobs: $3 billion in contracts in the last 6 months created by 
the Commerce Department.
  Then we now come to our veterans, and I have a special place in my 
heart for them, but come Monday at midnight we will have veterans 
without health services, we will have veterans who we pretend to honor 
without health services, and what it means is we will have veterans who 
will be listening to a lot of lip service. They do not want lip 
service, my colleagues. They want health care service; that is what we 
want in this country.
  And then the budget debate. I believe in bringing down the deficit. I 
voted for a balanced budget amendment. I have done it in my own former 
life as a city council member, but I can tell my colleagues one thing. 
We are being misrepresented, too, because this deficit and this balance 
that we have completes well worldwide with other countries who have a 
far greater debt. We can do it with reason and not cut education, and 
we cannot cut health care and Medicare premiums that increase. We can 
do this by streamlining the continuing resolution. Let us vote down 
this rule.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of our 
time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from California [Mr. Miller].
  (Mr. MILLER of California asked and was given permission to revise 
and extend his remarks.)
  Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker and Members, the suggestion is 
being made by the Republicans that, if we do not pass the continuing 
resolution to fund the Government and we do not pass the debt limit to 
increase the debt of this Government so that we can make good the 
credit of the United States and the payment on that debt, that if we do 
not do it their way, it cannot be done. Mr. Speaker, it is simply not 
true. For a clean debt limit, for a clean CR, I am sure on this side of 
the aisle we can find 150-175 votes, and I am sure that if the 
Republicans scour their entire caucus, they could find 25, 30, 40 votes 
that are willing to see that this Government continue, that we continue 
to govern, and then we can continue on with the debate over Medicare, 
and the future of children in this country, and the future of 
education, 

[[Page H 12103]]
but what we do not have to put at risk, what we do not have to put as 
risk, is the vital services of this Government, whether it is to 
veterans, or whether it is to the elderly, or whether it is to the 
schools of this Nation, or the transportation of this Nation. And even 
more importantly than all that, perhaps, is the credit of this Nation, 
that if we guess wrong and the markets react adversely, it will cost 
the homeowners and people who have debt in this Nation, who have 
mortgages. We ought not to put that at risk.
  Mr. Speaker, we can pass a clean debt limit, we can pass a clean CR, 
in a matter of minutes, in a matter of minutes. But the Republicans 
have chosen to have an ideological fight. They have the fight going on 
now. That is why we do not see them on the floor of the House, because 
they are having that fight in their conference. But they also chose to 
have that fight with the people of the United States and the President 
of the United States, and to force that fight they want to shut down 
the Government. It is really unacceptable. It is really the sort of a 
politics that should not exist any longer because with the world 
financial markets, and our world creditworthiness, and our ability to 
loan money and to recapture money around the world, we should not be 
playing with the credit rating of the United States of America.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I continue to reserve the balance of our 
time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from California [Mr. Fazio].
  (Mr. FAZIO of California asked and was given permission to revise and 
extend his remarks.)
  Mr. FAZIO of California. Mr. Speaker, it may have struck a number of 
those observing this proceeding that there is not much response coming 
from the other side of the aisle. They are passing time and time again 
to allow Democrats to dominate the debate. That is because the 
Republican Members have been off the floor, meeting together, wrangling 
over the Istook amendment which has been so clearly described here this 
morning.
  But what is really at stake is whether or not we are going to keep 
faith with the American people, with Federal employees, with all the 
services that people depend on and that this Government renders them.
  We clearly have an inept Republican leadership. There is no way 
around it. It is rather hard, but I have to say it here. It is the 10th 
of November. The fiscal year began October 1. Two of 13 appropriation 
bills have been passed, no budget reconciliation. The entitlement 
program has been passed. Had we passed those appropriation bills, had 
we passed that budget reconciliation package, we would not be here in 
this crisis atmosphere. The debt limit would have been automatically 
extended. The Government would be in position to serve all the people 
who pay the taxes to support it. But the fact is that that ineptness 
has made it impossible for us to operate any other way but on a crisis 
basis.
  Now Democrats have made it clear we are prepared to do whatever it 
takes to keep the American people from suffering as a result of our 
disagreements, and to allow Government to continue to function and our 
currency to continue to not be in default.

                              {time}  1145

  We have offered and will offer again today resolutions, clean 
resolutions, that allow the American people to continue to observe this 
debate but not have to make sacrifices that they ought not to have to 
make because they did not bring about this crisis.
  Mr. Speaker, why are we still here? Because the Republican Members 
simply cannot even agree among themselves as to what we ought to be 
doing here on a day we ought to be home honoring our veterans. We have 
some Members who think we must pass pure Istook, the amendment which 
really deprives so many nonprofit entities across this country of their 
voice here in Washington. Others would like to accommodate the Senate, 
which attempted to water it down and make it more palatable, even 
though, in my view, fatally flawed, by now covering State and local 
government wants to address issues here in Washington.
  That has made it impossible for Republicans even to tell us this 
morning whether they have the votes to pass this resolution on to the 
President, where he threatens to veto it, or were they unable to do 
that, to go to conference, which would mean they would not even be able 
to give the President the opportunity to exercise his responsible 
position before the clock runs and the government shuts down.
  That is what we are dealing with, division in the ranks that makes it 
impossible for Democrats, even in their most cooperative moments, to be 
helpful. But we will continue to try, and perhaps before this day is 
over, Republicans will come to their senses and accommodate what is 
reality,.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. HEFNER. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. I yield to the gentleman from North Carolina.
  Mr. HEFNER. Mr. Speaker, I would just like to have a little colloquy 
with the gentleman from California.
  I would ask the gentleman, is there anything in the continuing 
resolution and the extension of the debt limit that could not be 
handled regularly in legislation, either by suspension of the rules or 
in a regular bill? Is there anything in either one of these bills that 
could not be handled in the regular process in this bill?
  Mr. FAZIO of California. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. HEFNER. I yield to the gentleman from California.
  Mr. FAZIO of California. Absolutely not. No. There is no reason for 
us to impede the American people, to keep this crisis atmosphere in 
Washington. We can deal with that in the due course of events.
  Mr. HEFNER. So, with the Republicans controlling both bodies, they 
could bring it up at their discretion?
  Mr. FAZIO of California. That is absolutely right.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman 
from West Virginia [Mr. Wise].
  Mr. WISE. Mr. Speaker, what we have here today is a failure of 
leadership. That is why the thousands of Federal employees across the 
country, and certainly in my State, are going to face impending 
furloughs on Tuesday. That is why every homeowner with an adjustable 
rate mortgage faces interest rate increases if the debt ceiling is not 
extended and default occurs. Failure of leadership.
  This House is under Republican leadership now. Republican leadership 
used to complain about when appropriation bills were not done in a 
timely fashion. It takes 13 bills to run this Government. They failed 
to pass 11 of them and enact them into law. They failed to bring these 
matters to the floor for timely debate.
  The result is that what we have are two measures, debt ceiling 
extension and a continuing resolution that keeps the Federal Government 
going on a temporary basis. Both of them should be noncontroversial, 
both of them should be clean by themselves. Instead, what they have 
done is to tie such strings to each one of them as to make it 
impossible for the President to sign. That is why our Government is 
likely to shut down on Tuesday. That is why the economy of the 
United States is likely to face some roils and turmoil shortly 
thereafter. The first thing they are going to do is shut the Government 
down on Tuesday. The next thing they are going to do is help shut the 
economy down shortly thereafter.

  Ms. JACKSON-LEE. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. WISE. I yield to the gentlewoman from Texas.
  Ms. JACKSON-LEE. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for his remarks.
  Mr. Speaker, I just noticed, with the cold weather approaching, and 
that is why I said we need to talk to the working Americans, that the 
Low-Income Energy Assistance Program is going to be drastically 
impacted. Senior citizens, working single parents with children in 
these cold climates will not get the assistance they can get if this 
crisis comes to be.
  Mr. WISE. The gentlewoman is quite correct. In Texas, as in West 
Virginia, we just had our first snowfall, and the low-income energy 
assistance is drastically cut back, and of course, as she has pointed 
out many times on the floor, one of their measures they want 

[[Page H 12104]]
to tack on is to increase the Medicare part B premium from $42 to $55.
  Ms. PRYCE. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I have enough faith in my President that he will not 
allow this to happen, and I urge my friends on the other side to 
encourage the President not to let this happen.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes to the 
gentleman from Virginia [Mr. Moran].
  Mr. MORAN. Mr. Speaker, the last time that we had a similar debt 
ceiling crisis was during the Reagan administration. It was because of 
the very deep tax cuts that were enacted earlier in the decade. The 
folly of some of those tax cuts has been outlined in the book written 
by President Reagan's budget director, David Stockman, called ``The 
Triumph of Politics,'' so I will not go into that, but we have a 
somewhat similar situation now.
  At that time, what we did was to come up with a number of mechanisms 
to avoid a crisis occurring again. The problem with that debt ceiling 
bill is that it takes away the President's ability to avert such a 
crisis. It deliberately repeals those provisions, and thus ties his 
hands. That is the biggest objection to the debt ceiling bill, as far 
as I am concerned.
  What will happen as a result is that Federal retirees will lose from 
their trust fund, about $3.5 million a day. We have a letter from the 
experts that are in charge of the board that oversees those trust 
funds. It is a nonpartisan board. Their opinion was requested by the 
Republican chairman of the Subcommittee on Civil Service of the 
Committee on Government Reform and Oversight. They wrote back and said 
Federal retirees will lose $3.35 million a day if this debt ceiling 
bill is passed.
  Another thing it does is to prevent the President from being able to 
reimburse those trust funds, so when we look into this bill, it is an 
irresponsible bill. The American public deserves better.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore [Mr. Hayworth]. The Chair would inform the 
gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Hall] that he has 30 seconds remaining.
  Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, I would say that this should be a very simple bill. 
Normally in the past when we pass a simple debt extension, it is two 
pages, maximum. They start off at 6 pages, that is not too bad, but at 
10:30 about 1\1/2\ nights ago or 2 nights ago, with all these 
amendments, including regulatory reform, habeas corpus, it went up to 
well over 300 pages. Nobody had read the amendments, nobody understood 
the bill. I am almost positive there has not been anybody read this 
bill since it was increased to 350 pages in the past 2 days.
  Mr. Speaker, I would urge defeat of the rule, and defeat, certainly, 
of the Senate amendment.
  Ms. PRYCE of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may 
consume.
  Mr. Speaker, through the years we have borrowed and borrowed and 
borrowed. When the Secretary of Treasury calls and says, ``We need more 
money,'' we pass a two-page debt ceiling extension and we give him more 
money. The crux of the issue is that unless Washington agrees to 
balance the budget, we will no longer say yes when the Secretary calls. 
We will say balance the budget before we give more money. it is as 
simple as that.
  Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time, and move the 
previous question on the resolution.
  The previous question was ordered.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the resolution.
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the ayes appeared to have it.
  Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Speaker, I object to the vote on the ground that a 
quorum is not present and make the point of order that a quorum is not 
present.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evidently a quorum is not present.
  The Sergeant at Arms will notify absent Members.
  Pursuant to the provisions of clause 5 of rule I, the Chair announces 
that he will reduce to a minimum of 5 minutes the vote by the yeas and 
nays on House Resolution 261, which will be taken immediately after 
this vote on House Resolution 262.
  The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--yeas 220, 
nays 185, not voting 27, as follows:

                             [Roll No. 783]

                               YEAS--220

     Allard
     Archer
     Armey
     Bachus
     Baker (CA)
     Baker (LA)
     Ballenger
     Barr
     Barrett (NE)
     Bartlett
     Barton
     Bass
     Bateman
     Bereuter
     Bilbray
     Bilirakis
     Bliley
     Blute
     Boehlert
     Boehner
     Bonilla
     Bono
     Brownback
     Bryant (TN)
     Bunn
     Bunning
     Burr
     Burton
     Callahan
     Calvert
     Camp
     Canady
     Castle
     Chabot
     Chambliss
     Chenoweth
     Christensen
     Chrysler
     Clinger
     Coble
     Coburn
     Collins (GA)
     Combest
     Cooley
     Crane
     Crapo
     Cremeans
     Cubin
     Cunningham
     Deal
     DeLay
     Diaz-Balart
     Doolittle
     Dornan
     Dreier
     Duncan
     Dunn
     Ehlers
     Ehrlich
     Emerson
     English
     Ensign
     Everett
     Ewing
     Fawell
     Fields (TX)
     Flanagan
     Foley
     Fowler
     Fox
     Franks (CT)
     Franks (NJ)
     Frelinghuysen
     Frisa
     Funderburk
     Gallegly
     Ganske
     Gekas
     Gilchrest
     Gillmor
     Gilman
     Goodlatte
     Goodling
     Goss
     Graham
     Greenwood
     Gunderson
     Gutknecht
     Hall (TX)
     Hancock
     Hansen
     Hastert
     Hastings (WA)
     Hayes
     Hayworth
     Hefley
     Heineman
     Herger
     Hilleary
     Hobson
     Hoekstra
     Hoke
     Horn
     Hostettler
     Houghton
     Hunter
     Hutchinson
     Hyde
     Inglis
     Istook
     Johnson (CT)
     Johnson, Sam
     Jones
     Kasich
     Kelly
     Kim
     King
     Kingston
     Knollenberg
     Kolbe
     LaHood
     Largent
     Latham
     LaTourette
     Laughlin
     Lazio
     Leach
     Lewis (KY)
     Lightfoot
     Linder
     Livingston
     LoBiondo
     Longley
     Lucas
     Manzullo
     Martini
     McCollum
     McCrery
     McDade
     McInnis
     McKeon
     Metcalf
     Meyers
     Mica
     Miller (FL)
     Molinari
     Moorhead
     Morella
     Myers
     Myrick
     Nethercutt
     Neumann
     Ney
     Norwood
     Nussle
     Oxley
     Packard
     Parker
     Paxon
     Petri
     Pombo
     Porter
     Portman
     Pryce
     Quinn
     Radanovich
     Ramstad
     Regula
     Riggs
     Roberts
     Rogers
     Rohrabacher
     Ros-Lehtinen
     Roth
     Royce
     Salmon
     Sanford
     Saxton
     Scarborough
     Schaefer
     Schiff
     Seastrand
     Sensenbrenner
     Shadegg
     Shaw
     Skeen
     Smith (MI)
     Smith (NJ)
     Smith (TX)
     Smith (WA)
     Solomon
     Souder
     Spence
     Stearns
     Stockman
     Stump
     Talent
     Tate
     Tauzin
     Taylor (NC)
     Thornberry
     Tiahrt
     Torkildsen
     Upton
     Vucanovich
     Waldholtz
     Walker
     Walsh
     Wamp
     Watts (OK)
     Weldon (FL)
     Weller
     White
     Whitfield
     Wicker
     Wolf
     Young (AK)
     Young (FL)
     Zeliff
     Zimmer

                               NAYS--185

     Abercrombie
     Ackerman
     Andrews
     Baesler
     Baldacci
     Barcia
     Barrett (WI)
     Becerra
     Beilenson
     Bentsen
     Bevill
     Bishop
     Bonior
     Borski
     Brewster
     Browder
     Brown (CA)
     Brown (FL)
     Brown (OH)
     Bryant (TX)
     Cardin
     Chapman
     Clay
     Clayton
     Clement
     Clyburn
     Coleman
     Collins (IL)
     Collins (MI)
     Condit
     Conyers
     Costello
     Coyne
     Cramer
     Danner
     Davis
     de la Garza
     DeFazio
     DeLauro
     Dellums
     Deutsch
     Dicks
     Dixon
     Doggett
     Dooley
     Doyle
     Durbin
     Edwards
     Engel
     Eshoo
     Evans
     Farr
     Fattah
     Fazio
     Filner
     Flake
     Foglietta
     Forbes
     Ford
     Frank (MA)
     Frost
     Furse
     Gejdenson
     Gephardt
     Geren
     Gibbons
     Gonzalez
     Gordon
     Green
     Gutierrez
     Hall (OH)
     Hamilton
     Harman
     Hastings (FL)
     Hefner
     Hilliard
     Hinchey
     Holden
     Hoyer
     Jackson-Lee
     Jacobs
     Jefferson
     Johnson (SD)
     Johnson, E. B.
     Kanjorski
     Kennedy (MA)
     Kennedy (RI)
     Kennelly
     Kildee
     Kleczka
     Klink
     Lantos
     Levin
     Lewis (GA)
     Lincoln
     Lipinski
     Lofgren
     Lowey
     Luther
     Maloney
     Manton
     Markey
     Mascara
     Matsui
     McCarthy
     McDermott
     McHale
     McKinney
     McNulty
     Meehan
     Meek
     Menendez
     Mfume
     Miller (CA)
     Minge
     Mink
     Moakley
     Mollohan
     Montgomery
     Moran
     Murtha
     Nadler
     Neal
     Oberstar
     Obey
     Olver
     Ortiz
     Orton
     Pallone
     Pastor
     Payne (NJ)
     Payne (VA)
     Pelosi
     Peterson (MN)
     Pomeroy
     Poshard
     Rahall
     Rangel
     Reed
     Richardson
     Rivers
     Roemer
     Rose
     Roukema
     Roybal-Allard
     Rush
     Sabo
     Sanders
     Sawyer
     Schroeder
     Schumer
     Scott
     Serrano
     Shays
     Sisisky
     Skaggs
     Skelton
     Slaughter
     Spratt
     Stark
     Stenholm
     Stokes
     Stupak
     Tanner
     Taylor (MS)
     Tejeda
     Thompson
     Thurman
     Torres
     Towns
     Traficant
     Velazquez
     Vento
     Visclosky
     Volkmer
     Ward
     Waters
     Watt (NC)
     Williams
     Wilson
     Wise
     Woolsey
     Wyden
     Wynn
     Yates

[[Page H 12105]]


                             NOT VOTING--27

     Berman
     Boucher
     Buyer
     Cox
     Dickey
     Dingell
     Fields (LA)
     Johnston
     Kaptur
     Klug
     LaFalce
     Lewis (CA)
     Martinez
     McHugh
     McIntosh
     Owens
     Peterson (FL)
     Pickett
     Quillen
     Shuster
     Studds
     Thomas
     Thornton
     Torricelli
     Tucker
     Waxman
     Weldon (PA)

                              {time}  1212

  Mr. MILLER of California changed his vote from ``yea'' to ``nay.''
  So the resolution was agreed to.
  The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.

                          ____________________