[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 154 (Friday, September 29, 1995)]
[Senate]
[Pages S14707-S14708]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                          COSPONSORING S. 830

  Mr. LEAHY. Mr. President, I am pleased to cosponsor S. 830, a bill 
introduced by Senator Specter to amend the Federal Criminal Code to 
prohibit the making of false statements, misrepresentations or false 
writings to Congress or to any congressional committee or subcommittee. 
Until the Supreme Court decided Hubbard versus United States in May of 
this year, that 

[[Page S 14708]]
had been the law of the land for 40 years.
  In the Hubbard case, the Supreme Court decided that section 1001 of 
title 18, United States Code, prohibits the making of false statements 
only to executive branch agencies, and not to the courts or Congress. 
This decision overturned a 1955 Supreme Court case, which squarely held 
that ``one who lied to an officer of Congress was punishable under 
Sec. 1001 . . .'' Hubbard, 131 L.Ed. 2d 779, 798.
  S. 830 would make clear that the courts, Congress and ``any duly 
constituted committee or subcommittee of Congress'' are covered by the 
prohibition in section 1001 against false statements. It would restore 
the clear message to all who may appear before a committee or 
subcommittee of the Senate or House: Do not lie to us.
  Although various other laws criminalize false statements to Congress, 
none of those statutes reaches the breadth of misrepresentations and 
false statements prohibited by section 1001. For example, a perjury 
prosecution under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1621 requires that the false statement 
be made under oath, while section 1001 does not. Likewise, a 
prosecution under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 287 requires that the false statement 
be made in connection with a claim for payment, while section 1001 does 
not. Finally, an obstruction prosecution under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1505 
requires that the obstruction be effected ``corruptly or by threats or 
force,'' which section 1001 does not. Indeed, section 1505 has 
specifically been held not to prohibit lying to Congress. U.S. v. 
Poindexter, 951 F.2d 369 (D.C. Cir. 1991).
  I recognize that extension of section 1001 to the courts must be done 
delicately so as not to impinge upon responsible advocacy. I look 
forward to working with my friend from Pennsylvania on refining this 
bill, and urge its passage in this Congress.
  We should all be aware that until S. 830 is passed, witnesses may lie 
with impunity at congressional hearings, unless they are placed under 
oath.
  Senator Specter has meticulously administered oaths to every witness 
who has appeared at the extensive and ongoing Ruby Ridge hearings 
before the Judiciary Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and 
Government Information, which he chairs. We have heard from current and 
former law enforcement personnel from four Federal agencies, including 
the Marshals Service, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the 
FBI, and the Justice Department. We have also heard from Randy Weaver 
and his daughter, Sara, Kevin Harris, their neighbors and their 
friends.
  Sorting out what happened 3 years ago at Ruby Ridge, and then its 
aftermath, has proven to be no simple task. This was a tragedy, 
resulting in the deaths of Deputy Marshal William Degan, a 14-year-old 
boy, Sammy Weaver, and his mother, Vicki Weaver. Figuring out what went 
wrong at Ruby Ridge and what can be done to make sure those events are 
never repeated, is the challenge the subcommittee is facing on a 
bipartisan basis.
  Fulfilling our important oversight responsibility at these hearings, 
and in future hearings on other matters, requires that we seek the 
truth and base our findings on facts. Witnesses, who are interviewed, 
called to testify, and asked to provide documentary material relating 
to matters under consideration by Congress, should be given the message 
loudly and clearly that if they lie or purposely mislead us, they will 
be sanctioned with criminal penalties. This bill would put that message 
in the law, and I am glad to cosponsor it.

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