[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 76 (Tuesday, May 9, 1995)]
[Senate]
[Pages S6316-S6317]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




  HEARINGS SCHEDULED BY THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON TERRORISM, TECHNOLOGY AND 
                         GOVERNMENT INFORMATION

  Mr. SPECTER. Mr. President, I have sought recognition to comment 
briefly on a series of hearings scheduled by the Subcommittee on 
Terrorism, Technology and Government Information of the Judiciary 
Committee in the wake of Oklahoma City, although one had actually been 
scheduled in advance.
  We have so far had hearings on the statutes proposed by the 
administration and others. We have had a hearing in response to certain 
groups concerned with the issue of constitutional rights. A hearing is 
scheduled for this Thursday, May 11, on the so-called mayhem manuals, 
where you can find out how to make a bomb, and a hearing is scheduled 
on May 18 on the incidents involving Waco, TX and Ruby Ridge, ID.
  I have received correspondence from the distinguished chairman of the 
full committee, Senator Hatch, who raises a question about the 
timeliness of the hearings and about the jurisdiction of my 
subcommittee. I have responded to Senator Hatch, and intend to put the 
correspondence in the Record so it may be available for the public, by 
noting that the jurisdiction is clear-cut on the subcommittee, both 
under the authority on terrorism and on governmental information.
  It is my view, Mr. President, that it is important and the hearings 
are long past due on what happened at Waco, TX and what happened at 
Ruby Ridge, ID. There can be no misunderstanding or no question that 
whatever happened at Waco, TX and Ruby Ridge, ID, that there is 
absolutely, positively no justification for the bombing of the Federal 
building in Oklahoma City, OK.
  But there has been a great deal of concern about whether there has 
been a candid response by the Government of the United States, and in 
the congressional oversight responsibility, we should lay all the facts 
on the table in the interest of full disclosure--let the chips fall 
where they may. The virtue of strength of a democracy is that we do not 
cover our mistakes; that if there are errors and if there are problems, 
we identify them forthrightly.
  There had been some concern that a hearing on Ruby Ridge, ID might in 
some way prejudice the investigation by the prosecuting attorney who 
may intend to bring some charges, perhaps even against Federal 
officials. I have had an extended discussion with Randolph Day, Esq., 
the county attorney for Boundary County, who has advised me that he 
sees no problem in our going forward with hearings by the subcommittee.
  A number of Senators have made public statements about the importance 
of having such hearings. Others of my colleagues have discussed the 
matters with me privately. I do think it is important that hearings 
proceed and that other Senators and the public be aware of the status 
of this matter.
  So I ask unanimous consent that the text of the letter from Senator 
Hatch to me dated May 8, with my reply to him dated May 9, be printed 
in the Record.
  There being no objection, the letters were ordered to be printed in 
the Record, as follows:

                                                      U.S. Senate,


                                   Committee on the Judiciary,

                                      Washington, DC, May 8, 1995.
     Hon. Arlen Specter,
     U.S. Senate,
     Washington, DC.
       Dear Arlen: I am writing with regard to your public 
     statements concerning the convening of a hearing in the 
     Terrorism, Technology and Government Information subcommittee 
     to review the incidents at Waco, Texas and Ruby Ridge, Idaho. 
     This letter is intended to settle any misunderstanding that 
     may exist as to what the Senate Judiciary Committee's plans 
     are surrounding a review of these matters.
        [[Page S6317]] As you know, I share your deep concern over 
     these incidents and believe that a thorough Congressional 
     review of these, and related federal law enforcement issues, 
     is warranted. However, hearings on these matters would not be 
     properly within the jurisdiction of the Subcommittee on 
     Terrorism, Technology and Government Information. Indeed, 
     when your staff raised this issue with Committee staff more 
     than one week ago, my position on this matter was promptly 
     conveyed. Due to the important nature of these issues and 
     their ramifications for federal law enforcement, hearings 
     should be held at the Full Committee. I intend that hearings 
     will be held in the near future following Senate 
     consideration of comprehensive anti-terrorism legislation. 
     Indeed, I believe the House Judiciary Committee has announced 
     hearings as well. It might prove beneficial to hold our 
     hearings after the House completes its hearing.
       The hearing you propose is an important one, but I believe 
     that it is unrelated, in any true sense, to the broader issue 
     of the prevention of domestic terrorism. Accordingly, to hold 
     the hearing as you propose at this time will serve only to 
     confuse these important issues. Indeed, by linking the Waco 
     incident to the terrorism issue through hearings at this 
     time, the Committee could inappropriately, albeit 
     unintentionally, convey the wrong message regarding the 
     culpability of those responsible for the atrocity in Oklahoma 
     City. We must not do this.
       I appreciate your concern over this matter. I look forward 
     to working with you on this and all other matters before the 
     Judiciary Committee.
           Sincerely,
                                                   Orrin G. Hatch,
     Chairman.
                                                                    ____

                                                      U.S. Senate,


                                   Committee on the Judiciary,

                                      Washington, DC, May 9, 1995.
     Hon. Orrin G. Hatch,
     Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. Senate, 
         Washington, DC
       Dear Orrin: I have your letter of May 8.
       I disagree with you on three counts:
       1. Hearings on Waco and Ruby Ridge, Idaho, should be held 
     promptly (actually they are long overdue) rather than waiting 
     to some unspecified time in the ``near future'' or ``after 
     the House completes its hearings.''
       2. My Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Government 
     Information has clear cut jurisdiction both as our authority 
     relates to terrorism and government information.
       3. I categorically reject your assertions that the 
     Subcommittee's scheduled hearing will ``serve only to confuse 
     these important issues'' and ``convey the wrong message 
     regarding the culpability of those responsible for that 
     atrocity in Oklahoma City.'' There can be no conceivable 
     misunderstanding that there is no possible justification for 
     the bombing in Oklahoma City regardless of what happened in 
     Waco or Idaho. The public interest requires full disclosure 
     of those incidents through hearings to promote public 
     confidence in government.
       Since I have had and am continuing to have media inquiries 
     on these hearings, for your information I am releasing this 
     exchange of correspondence.
           Sincerely,
                                                    Arlen Specter.

  Mr. SPECTER. I thank the Chair and yield the floor.
  Mr. DORGAN addressed the Chair.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from North Dakota.

                          ____________________