[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 54 (Thursday, March 23, 1995)]
[House]
[Pages H3714-H3715]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]


                        CREATIVITY IN ARGUMENTS

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the 
gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Kingston] is recognized for 5 minutes.
  [[Page H3715]] Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to listen 
to the Democrats talk. They have the fantasy of Disney, the creativity 
of Steven Spielberg. And if they could speak as eloquently as Bill 
Clinton, they, too, would be in the White House.
  Let me start by yielding the floor to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 
Hoke].
  Mr. HOKE. Mr. Speaker, I want to point out that, with respect to the 
State of Massachusetts from which the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. 
Olver], who just spoke on the other side of the aisle, comes and 
actually comes from a town that is close to my heart. I happened to go 
to Amherst College, and I believe that is the city he represents, among 
others in western Massachusetts.
  According again to CRS, the State of Massachusetts will see a $7.255 
million increase in the block grant program, 1996 over 1995, for 
school-based child nutrition programs.
  If anybody can show us how that is a cut over the CBO baseline, over 
demographics, over interest rates, over inflation rates, please come 
forward and show us how that is a cut. I keep seeing these red flags 
appear, and I am baffled. All I can do is go back to this other chart.
  Mr. OLVER. Would the gentleman yield?
  Mr. KINGSTON. I control the time, but I would be happy to yield to 
you.
  Mr. OLVER. I think if the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Hoke] would 
remember, I was very careful to point out that my 8,000 children are at 
risk of losing their school lunches, and the major reason why that is 
possible is because we have lumped several programs together in a block 
grant, which is the movement of the plates that has been talked about 
from last night.
  In that process, 20 percent of that money can be moved at the whim of 
the Governor of Massachusetts to other programs in a whole series of 
different block grants. So there is extreme danger that a very large 
number of children may be left out of food in this particular program.
  Mr. KINGSTON. Let me reclaim my time only to keep it going quickly 
because we have got 5 minutes.
  I yield to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Hoke].
  Mr. HOKE. If there is extreme danger of any child being at risk in 
the State of Massachusetts in 1996 for nutrition programs, then there 
would be even greater danger that that child would be at risk under the 
CBO baseline, the President's own numbers for 1996, because we are 
increasing the amount from 1996 under the block grant program more than 
under the CBO baseline program for the administration.
  Mr. KINGSTON. If the gentleman would yield back.
  Also, the Governor of Massachusetts could put that 20 percent into 
the nutrition program rather than take it out.
  Now I do not know who the Governor is, but I would trust my Governor. 
My Governor is a Democrat Governor of Georgia, and the Democrat 
Governor of Georgia, who is a big Newt Gingrich supporter--he is in the 
national Democratic clique--he says, ``Give me the money. I can spend 
it better.''
  Now, whether your Governor is Democrat or Republican, I will bet our 
Governor will be willing to go up there and show you fine people up in 
the Commonwealth of Massachusetts how to better spend your money. And 
if the people of Massachusetts do not trust him, maybe it is time to 
change water. That might be true also of the State senate and State 
legislature.
  Mr. OLVER. Would the gentleman yield?
  Mr. KINGSTON. I am going to yield to you, but we have got a real 
brief time, so please go quickly. No speeches.
  Mr. OLVER. The gentleman is correct in indicating that it would be 
possible to move money from others of the five large block grants in 
this welfare bill. But take, for instance, the child care bill. You 
claim you want to put people to work. Our bill requires people to go to 
work.
  Mr. KINGSTON. Reclaiming my time. When we are talking nutrition, and 
I guess we scored a hit because the gentleman has moved over to another 
field, let me say this real quickly. There is something that is very 
fundamentally important about this whole welfare debate, and I am glad 
we are here tonight. I am glad to hear folks like you talking about the 
Deal bill because it would have never gotten to the floor of the House 
had the Republican majority not taken over.
  It just frankly was a very, I think, fairly responsible moderate 
proposal, but it never would have made it to the floor last year, and 
it did it now.
  You know, the President said he is going to end welfare as we know 
it. He never offered a bill. Never. He ended welfare debate as we know 
it by not offering a bill.
  Mr. HOKE. Would the gentleman yield for a question?
  Mr. KINGSTON. Yes.
  Mr. HOKE. How many years did the Democrats control the House?
  Mr. KINGSTON. Forty.
  Mr. HOKE. When did the Great Society start?
  Mr. KINGSTON. 1965.
  Mr. HOKE. 1965. So the Democrats, is this their welfare program that 
we are talking about?
  Mr. KINGSTON. Generally.
  Mr. HOKE. Did they try to reform it? Have they changed it?
  Mr. KINGSTON. No. They got a lot of religion November 8.
  

                          ____________________