[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 53 (Wednesday, March 22, 1995)]
[House]
[Page H3535]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]


                          NUTRITIONAL PROGRAMS

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the 
gentleman from Maryland [Mr. Hoyer] is recognized for 5 minutes.
  Mr. HOYER. Mr. Speaker, we have had some protestations, particularly 
from the gentleman from Cleveland or just outside of Cleveland, with 
respect to baselines. Mr. DeFazio spoke of baselines.
  And the question and answers, we pretend that there can be a savings 
which is going to be applied to a tax cut and for the wealthiest in 
America, but that somehow this savings doesn't cost anybody anything. 
It is a free lunch. It is sort of like supply-side economics that was 
brought to us in 1981, and we were told that the budget would be 
balanced as a result of supply-side economics by October 1, 1983.
  Mr. HOKE. Would you yield for one single question?
  Mr. HOYER. Four and one-half trillion dollars later.
  Mr. HOKE. Have you, have you seen the CRS report?
  Mr. HOYER. I have not.
  Mr. HOKE. Would you like to have a copy of it?
  Mr. HOYER. I would love to have a copy of it.
  Mr. HOKE. It is working from the baseline. It shows the increase off 
the baseline.

                              {time}  2115

  Mr. HOYER. The gentleman asked me to yield. Will the gentleman yield?
  Where does this savings, this magic savings come from that Mr. Kasich 
is applying to the tax cut?
  Mr. HOKE. It is not in this school-based nutrition program.
  Mr. HOYER. Where does it come from then? Let me show a little chart 
that we have.
  Mr. HOKE. Charts are good.
  Mr. HOYER. Charts are good. We have agreed that charts are good, and 
it is confusing.
  You did not like baselines. At the beginning of this session you 
wanted honest budgeting, no baselines.
  Now, Mr. DeFazio is right. I happen to be someone who supports the 
Defense Department, believes we need a strong defense, have supported 
many of, frankly, Ronald Reagan's increases in the early 1980's. But 
the fact of the matter is Mr. DeFazio is correct.
  On the one hand, if buying weapons costs you more year to year, 
buying food also costs you more year to year. So the baseline is no 
more than phony for one than it is for the other.
  Now, because you think charts are good, let me show you these charts.
  Mr. HOKE. I totally agree with you about baselines. The problem with 
baselines is not taking into account the increases. It is deceiving the 
public about those increases.
  Mr. HOYER. Reclaiming my time.
  What you are saying, whether you are talking about defense or 
children's breakfast and lunch or whether you are talking about food 
for women, infants, and children so that mothers can be healthy in 
their prenatal period and babies can be healthy in the postnatal period 
and grow up healthy and able to learn, either way, you are talking 
about maintaining effort unless you have a decreased need.
  And although I have not seen that, you responded that the number of 
kids increased, and you say that report shows that we are taking care 
of it.
  Here is the chart that shows the difference between, and we use 
perhaps more programs here because the number is larger for all the 
programs that are included on this chart, which includes expenditures 
under current law for school meals, child care food, summer food, and 
the WIC program. 11.6, fiscal year 1995. 12.1 by the same products.
  Mr. HOKE. Are you using home-based day care? Is that one of the 
programs you used?
  Mr. HOYER. Yes.
  Mr. HOKE. There is the difference. That is a program we are cutting. 
It is a program that the administration called to cut. It is a program 
that the President wants cut. You are absolutely right. That is an area 
that is going to show a difference because we are cutting.
  Mr. HOYER. So we have agreement. There is a cut.
  Mr. HOKE. That is right. And the reason that the administration wants 
to have that cut is that it is not means tested. Everybody gets it. And 
we believe that only people that really need it should be getting these 
nutrition programs.
  Mr. HOYER. We are going to run out of my 5 minutes real soon.
  Mr. HOKE. I will give you more time. We have got all night.
  Mr. HOYER. Reclaiming my time.
  The fact of the matter is that those five nutritional programs, if 
they grew as the need would require to stay even, that is all we are 
talking about, to stay even. You would be at 15.9. But you are at 13.6, 
a two billion difference. Seven billion. That is where we get that 
seven billion. These years are a $7 billion cut. Now, it is a cut, and 
you use it.
  Mr. Kasich and the Budget Committee refers to this as we have got 
some savings from what they call, of course, a phoney baseline.
  But the fact of the matter is, I want to tell you in Maryland our 
folks have reviewed this program and 37,000 children, real people, will 
have to be cut off the program if your program passes.
  Now, that is what they say. They haven't seen CRS. That is what they 
say. Thirty-seven thousand kids are 


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