[Congressional Record Volume 141, Number 20 (Wednesday, February 1, 1995)]
[Senate]
[Pages S1868-S1869]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]




                           A CALL FOR REFORM

  Mr. DORGAN. Mr. President, let me turn to one other quick item. I am 
going to speak about this at greater length later. But I want to touch 
on it today, because I have watched with amazement in recent days 
reformers, people who say let us tip everything upside down and shake 
it, let us change it, let us reform it.
  Among that call for reform, joined by many Governors in our country, 
is a plea by those folks that what we ought to do is decide the Federal 
Government cannot do anything right, and State governments do 
everything right, and we ought to have a massive transfer of money, a 
substantial transfer of resources between the States and the Federal 
Government, moving, of course, from the Federal Government to the 
States.
  I am willing to concede that the Federal Government has too much 
waste; it is too bureaucratic, too big. The Clinton administration has 
taken action to downsize it. One hundred thousand people who used to 
work for the Federal Government are not working for the Federal 
Government anymore. At the end of 2 more years, it will be 250,000 
people; 250,000 jobs will have 
[[Page S1869]]  been eliminated. That is downsizing in a real way.
  I reject the notion somehow that is being thrown around by the 
reformers, especially by Governors, who come out with press conferences 
and television lights and put on a big brassy show and say, ``Here are 
250 programs you ought to abolish. Throw all the funding for these 
programs into a block grant and send us a check.'' These are the very 
same Governors who are back home busting their buttons, boasting about 
all the tax cuts back home. They have the gall and brass to come to 
Washington and say all the things you have done and all that money--
send us the money and with no directions. Put it in something called a 
block grant, and we will take care of it.
  Is there no priority for child nutrition in this country? Is that not 
important? They are asking us to put funding for things like WIC, and 
other programs dealing with children, in a block grant and send it back 
to the Governors. We're supposed to let the Governors work with local 
business interests on economic development grants. If the Governor 
wants to use the money to help a company from another State build a 
manufacturing plant in his State, that is, we are told, just fine. Let 
us let them make those decisions there, because we do not have a 
national priority on the subject or the issue of child nutrition.
  Well, the fact is we do have a priority. We have established a 
priority over a long period of time. And I am one who does not believe 
that we ought to decide that get rid of those priorities that have been 
priorities for a long, long time. We should not just load them up into 
one big block to send to Governors and say, ``We will make you a deal. 
We will raise the taxes and then we will send money to you and you 
figure out how you might want to spend it, while all the while you are 
boasting back home you are cutting State taxes.''
  You want the real conservative answer, Governors, the real answer, 
then raise the money yourself and spend it yourself.
  There is no better way to create fiscal irresponsibility than for one 
level of Government to raise the money and another level of Government 
to spend the money.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time of the Senator has expired.
  Mr. DORGAN. I ask unanimous consent for 1 additional minute.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
  Mr. DORGAN. We need to talk through this at some length, Mr. 
President. Because I wonder whether I am the only one that thinks that 
it is a little strange to have people rush into town to say, on the one 
hand, that the Federal Government cannot do anything right, and on the 
other that they would like to continue to have our money. People are 
telling us to just send the money to the States and let them spend it.
  The whole principle of the unfunded mandates bill, which we just 
passed here on the Senate floor, was that those who raise the money 
should decide how to spend the money. Governors and mayors were 
complaining mightily that we in Washington violate this principle.
  Even as we dealt with the unfunded mandates bill, it was interesting 
to me that in many jurisdictions they were busy hooking their hose to 
the Federal tank, siphoning money out of here with bogus plans, such as 
the provider tax under Medicaid and others.
  Well, reform works both ways. Responsibility works both ways. And I 
hope one of these days we can have a thoughtful discussion about who 
does what better, which things are important, which must be saved, 
which must take priority. I think there is room for all of us to have a 
thoughtful discussion about this, and I intend to say more about it in 
the days ahead.
  Mr. President, with that, I yield the floor.
  Mr. BRADLEY addressed the Chair.
  The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from New Jersey, under the 
previous order, is recognized to speak for up to 15 minutes.


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