[Congressional Record Volume 140, Number 132 (Tuesday, September 20, 1994)]
[House]
[Page H]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Printing Office [www.gpo.gov]


[Congressional Record: September 20, 1994]
From the Congressional Record Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]


                              {time}  1500
 
APPOINTMENT OF CONFEREES ON H.R. 6, IMPROVING AMERICA'S SCHOOLS ACT OF 
                                  1994

  Mr. FORD of Michigan. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to take 
from the Speaker's table the bill (H.R. 6) to extend for 5 years the 
authorizations of appropriations for the programs under the Elementary 
and Secondary Education Act of 1965, and for certain other purposes, 
with a Senate amendment thereto, disagree to the Senate amendment, and 
agree to the conference asked by the Senate.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Pete Geren of Texas). Is there objection 
to the request of the gentleman from Michigan?
  There was no objection.


         motion to instruct conferees offered by mr. gunderson

  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I offer a motion to instruct conferees.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Mr. Gunderson of Wisconsin moves that the Managers on the 
     part of the House, at the Conference on the disagreeing votes 
     of the two Houses on the bill H.R. 6 be instructed to insist 
     on the House position with regard to the subject of School 
     prayer as follows:

     ``SEC. 9513. PROHIBITION AGAINST FUNDS FOR PROTECTED PRAYER.

       ``Notwithstanding any provision of law, no funds made 
     available through the Department of Education under this Act, 
     or any other Act, shall be available to any State or local 
     educational agency which has a policy of denying or which 
     effectively prevents participation in, constitutionally 
     protected prayer in public schools by individuals on a 
     voluntary basis. Neither the United States nor any State nor 
     any local educational agency shall require any person to 
     participate in prayer or influence the form or content of any 
     constitutionally protected prayer in such public schools.

  Mr. GUNDERSON (during the reading). Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous 
consent that the motion be considered as read and printed in the 
Record.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Wisconsin?
  There was no objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Gunderson] 
will be recognized for 30 minutes, and the gentleman from Michigan [Mr. 
Ford] will be recognized for 30 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Gundeson].
  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself 5 minutes.
  (Mr. GUNDERSON asked and was given permission to revise and extend 
his remarks.)
  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, as a member of the Committee on Education 
and Labor, I bring to Members what I believe is a very important motion 
to instruct the conferees as we go to conference later this afternoon 
on the Elementary and Secondary Education Act.
  One of the issues in which the House spoke loudly and clearly during 
our earlier consideration was the right of school children to 
participate in what is called constitutionally permitted school prayer. 
The distinguished gentlemen from Texas [Mr. Sam Johnson] offered an 
amendment at that time that if Members recall I was one of those who 
spoke in favor of the amendment at that time because I though it was 
important that we understand exactly what we mean by constitutionally 
permitted school prayer.
  Mr. Speaker, everyone has assumed that somehow under the 
establishment clause of the Constitution that school prayer is not 
constitutionally permitted. However, the American Law Division has made 
it very clear that constitutionally permitted school prayer would 
include first and foremost a moment of silence which students can use 
for that purpose, and, second, such activities as graduation ceremony 
prayers if offered by a member of the student body. I would hope that 
there is none among us who believe that that is in any way, shape or 
form coercion but rather would recognize that as the legitimate rights 
of students in our society. As the American Law Division wrote in their 
ruling, they said the students of this country do not shed their first 
amendment rights to free speech at the schoolhouse door.
  What we would like to do is make sure that no funds are in any way, 
shape or form used to prohibit the rights of schools to have school 
prayer and go on beyond that to say that we are not going to allow any 
kind of funds from the Federal Government to schools that have policies 
which specifically prohibit school prayer. This is where the importance 
of this motion to instruct comes in. Because the Senate has language 
which in all due respect to my colleagues in the Senate makes it 
impossible to ever enforce the right of constitutionally permitted 
school prayer. The Senate language says that any State or local agency, 
local school, that is adjudged by a Federal court to have willfully 
violated a Federal court order mandating such constitutionally 
permitted school prayer would be denied funds. The facts are, ladies 
and gentlemen, to go through that kind of a not one but double legal 
hurdle guarantees that in effect we would never enforce the provision 
allowing constitutionally permitted school prayer.
  I call upon my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to reaffirm what 
was a strong vote on this issue earlier in our consideration so that as 
we go to conference, this is an issue we may bring back to Members in 
its proper form.
  Mr. FORD of Michigan. Mr. Speaker, I ask the gentleman to yield so 
that we may engage in a colloquy.
  Mr. GUNDERSON. I am happy to yield to the distinguished chairman.
  Mr. FORD of Michigan. I would ask the gentleman if his amendment is 
simply a suggestion to the conference committee that we hold out for 
the House version of the bill?
  Mr. GUNDERSON. That is exactly correct.
  Mr. FORD of Michigan. That being the case, I am inclined to accept 
the gentleman's amendment if we can avoid spending an hour waiting 
around here with all kinds of nonsense on this thing. I would accept 
the gentleman's amendment on that condition.
  Mr. GUNDERSON. I do have some people I had promised time to that I 
have to allocate under my 30 minutes, however. I appreciate the 
gentleman's support, but I do have to respect the commitment I have 
made.
  Mr. FORD of Michigan. Well, I tried.
  Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from 
Texas [Mr. Sam Johnson], the author of the provision during its 
original consideration.
  Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this 
motion to instruct the conferees on the elementary and secondary 
reauthorization bill, H.R. 6, to accept the Johnson/Duncan amendment 
which overwhelmingly passed the House on March 21 of this year by a 
vote of 345 to 64.
  This body has voted for this exact language twice this year, the vote 
for my amendment in March and a 367 to 55 vote in February for a motion 
to instruct the conferees on Goals 2000.
  If you will recall, the Johnson-Duncan amendment simply allows 
students and teachers in public schools across the Nation to pray on a 
voluntary basis. This right is protected by our Constitution.

       Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of 
     religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .'' 
     [First Amendment]
       The courts have affirmed that students in public schools do 
     not ``shed their constitutional right to freedom of speech or 
     expression at the schoolhouse gate.'' In the case of Wallace 
     versus Jaffree the court concluded that there is no 
     constitutional barrier to a state ``protecting every 
     student's right to engage in voluntary prayer.

  The House-passed amendment allows student-initiated, constitutionally 
protected voluntary prayer. It does not require a State education 
agency or a local education agency to do anything but uphold the 
Constitution. It does not create any new legal definition of voluntary 
school prayer. It does not require a child to participate in prayer.
  The language passed by the other body places a heavy burden on those 
whose rights have been violated. They must obtain a court order 
requiring that a violation of constitutionally protected prayer be 
remedied, and then return to court a second time and prove willful 
violation of the previous court order.
  The argument has been made that we should leave the decision of what 
is protected prayer to the courts because the Department of Education 
should not be involved in making such ``constitutional'' decisions. The 
Department of Education already makes decisions concerning students' 
constitutional rights. There is a special office at the Department 
called the Office of Civil Rights. This Office will investigate claims 
that a student's civil rights have been violated, they will contact the 
school and work with them to remedy the situation and if the school 
does not, the funds will be taken away.
  The language passed by the other body will cause parents of aggrieved 
students to spend tremendous amounts of money in litigation costs. Let 
me share an example with you of the cost of prosecuting a public school 
student's right to pray. In the case Ferguson, et al. versus Smithfield 
High School students at a public high school were denied the right to 
start a bible club, similar to other student clubs, and have faith 
fellowship meetings as a club on school grounds. The case was filed in 
Federal District Court in February of this year. The cost of the case 
to this stage, not including a trial total $44,730. That includes 
$33,500 for lead attorneys, $6,950 for the team attorneys, $1,800 for 
six depositions--exclusive of attorney time--and $2,480 for 
disbursements. This is an undue burden that would not be placed on the 
aggrieved individuals under the Johnson/Duncan language.
  I encourage the 345 Members who voted for the Johnson/Duncan 
amendment in March to continue their support for protecting the rights 
of all schoolchildren to voluntarily pray and vote for this motion to 
instruct. In a nation founded on religious beliefs, the Government 
should not restrict the time or place a citizen voluntarily chooses to 
pray.
  Mr. EMERSON. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas. I yield to the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. 
Emerson].
  Mr. EMERSON. I want to associate myself very strongly with the 
remarks of the gentleman from Texas [Mr. Sam Johnson].
  Mr. Speaker, I rise today in support of the motion to instruct 
conferees to accept the House-passed language to H.R. 6 regarding 
school prayer offered by my colleague from Texas. We have worked 
together on this most important issue in the past and I am happy to 
join him again today.
  As passed by the House on March 24 by a convincing vote of 289-128, 
H.R. 6 includes language denying funds to any State or local 
educational agency which has a policy of denying or preventing 
participation in constitutionally protected school prayer. The bill 
also stipulated that the Federal Government cannot require any person 
to participate in school prayer.
  The Senate version of the bill would make schools judged by a Federal 
court to have willfully violated a Federal court order mandating that 
they correct violations of constitutionally-protected school prayer, 
ineligible for funds until they comply with the court order. The bill 
also states that funds are not reimbursable for the period during which 
schools were in willful noncompliance.
  First, let me spell out what the House language does do and then make 
it clear what it doesn't do. The House-passed language will prevent any 
school district which has a policy of prohibiting voluntary student-
initiated prayer in the schools from receiving any Federal funds 
authorized by this act or any other act. In other words, it simply 
forbids school districts from setting up official policies or 
procedures with the intent and purpose of prohibiting individuals from 
voluntarily saying prayers at school.
  This language does not mandate school prayer or require schools to 
write any particular prayer. Under this language, a school is not 
required to do anything in favor of voluntary prayer. It simply must 
refrain from instituting policies prohibiting voluntary student prayer.
  The Founding Fathers intended religion to provide a moral anchor for 
our democracy. Wouldn't they be puzzled to return to modern-day America 
and find, among elite circles in academia and the media, a scorn for 
the public expression of religious values. I find it ironic that while 
taxpayers' dollars are being used by bureaucrats to distribute condoms 
in our public schools across America, our children are prohibited from 
reading the Bible. This sends a powerful message to our children--and 
it is the wrong message.
  One of the many liberties our forefathers founded this great Nation 
upon was freedom of religion; a freedom to pray to the God we want, 
when we want, and where we want. Unfortunately, this freedom has been 
eroded by the Supreme Court over the last few decades. I firmly believe 
that no one should be forced to pray, especially if a certain prayer is 
contrary to an individual's beliefs. But, there can be no question that 
every American citizen has the right to pray voluntarily whenever and 
wherever he or she chooses, and that includes children in public 
schools. This is protected under the first amendment; ``Congress shall 
make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the 
free exercise thereof.'' It is that second part that I ask you to pay 
special attention to today.
  As President Reagan so eloquently stated in 1982, ``the First 
Amendment of the Constitution was not written to protect the people of 
this country from religious values; it was written to protect religious 
values from government tyranny.''
  This language overwhelmingly passed the House by a vote of 289-128. I 
urge you to vote for the Johnson motion to instruct conferees to accept 
the House-passed language to H.R. 6.
  Mr. KASICH. Will the gentleman yield?
  Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas. I yield to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 
Kasich].
  Mr. KASICH. I would like to compliment the gentleman for his effort 
originally on this issue. Frankly, the whole country scratches their 
head and wonders why the Congress has failed to allow a moment of 
silent prayer in our schoolhouses across this country.
  We begin the morning session with a prayer here in Congress, and I 
think everybody knows that if our society, one more time, is going to 
get compliance on the highway and some speed limits--we all talk about 
a value crisis in our country--this is not the panacea but one great 
step forward in terms of reinstituting some fundamental values.
  I used to pray when I was a kid in school. Virtually everybody in 
this Chamber has. And I want to compliment the gentleman for his 
efforts and look forward to the House strongly supporting the Johnson 
motion in the conference committee.
  Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas. I thank the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. 
Kasich].

                              {time}  1510

  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to my friend and 
colleague, the gentleman from the great State of Ohio [Mr. Traficant].
  Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Speaker, in America, you can burn the flag. In 
America a communist can work in a defense plant. In America a murderer 
is allowed law books in the penitentiary. And in America, criminals can 
have a free attorney.
  In our schools there are rapes. In America there are condoms in our 
schools. In America there is racism in our schools. In America there 
are assaults in our schools, there is even murder in our schools. There 
is theft in our schools and, ladies and gentlemen, there are drugs in 
American schools and in America, ladies and gentlemen, there are even 
guns in our schools.
  But in our schools, ladies and gentlemen, there is no prayer. There 
is no prayer in American schools. In fact, the only time you hear about 
God in American schools is when God's name is taken in vain.
  The Constitution separates church and State. But I for one believe 
the Constitution was never intended to separate God and the American 
people. I think if we look at the litany of all of the problems in 
American schools, maybe we could see, Congress, why some of that has 
occurred. Maybe we have gone a little bit too far with the 
Constitution, stretched it from what the Founders really wanted, and 
allowing for voluntary prayer is not a whole lot to ask.
  I think if the Congress of the United States cannot deal with that 
issue, then shame, Congress. Hide your face.
  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from 
Tennessee [Mr. Duncan].
  Mr. DUNCAN. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me the 
time.
  Mr. Speaker, I have spoken on this issue three or four times on the 
House floor in the past, so I will be brief.
  I rise in support of this motion to instruct. Our Founding Fathers 
came to this Nation to get freedom of religion, not freedom from 
religion. I think they would be shocked to learn today that we open up 
every session of the House and Senate with prayer, but we will not 
allow the school children of this Nation that same privilege.
  George Washington once said you cannot have good government without 
morality, you cannot have morality without religion, and you cannot 
have religion without God.
  But I think even more aprops is something that William Raspberry, the 
great columnist for the Washington Post, wrote a few months ago when he 
asked the very pointed question in one of his columns, he said: ``Is it 
not just possible that anti-religious bias, masquerading as religious 
neutrality, is costing us far more than we have been willing to 
admit?''
  There are many things that I could say about this issue, Mr. Speaker, 
but I would simply like to read a recent editorial by Morton Zuckerman, 
editor in chief of U.S. News and World Report, entitled ``Where have 
our values gone''? Mr. Zuckerman said,

       The fraying of America's social fabric is fast becoming a 
     national obsession. Three out of every four Americans think 
     we are in moral and spiritual decline. Two out of three think 
     the country is seriously off track. Doubts about the 
     president's character have driven his standing in the polls 
     down about 15 points. Social dysfunction haunts the land: 
     crime and drug abuse, the breakup of the family, the slump in 
     academic performance, the disfigurement of public places by 
     druggies, thugs and exhibitionists. Are we now, to use Sen. 
     Daniel Patrick Moynihan's phrase, ``defining deviancy down,'' 
     accepting as part of life what we once found repugnant?

  He went on to say,

       Instead culture of a culture of common good, we have 
     culture of constant complaint. Everyone is a victim.
       The combined effect of these sicknesses, rooted in phony 
     doctrines of liberalism, has been to tax the Nation's 
     optimism and sap its confidence in the future. And it is the 
     young who are strikingly vulnerable.

  Let us do something good for the young people of this Nation. Let us 
allow voluntary prayer back in the schools of this land. This is not a 
partisan issue. It is being endorsed at the present time in my home 
State of Tennessee by both the senior Senator, Senator Sasser in ads 
that he is writing and by the other gentleman from Tennessee, our 
colleague, Mr. Cooper.
  Mr. Speaker, I urge support of this motion to instruct.
  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2\1/2\ minutes to the gentleman 
from Indiana [Mr. Burton].
  Mr. BURTON of Indiana. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for 
yielding the time.
  Mr. Speaker, when I first entered the Indiana General Assembly back 
in 1967 I was a cosponsor of what was called the Everett Dirksen 
voluntary prayer amendment. That was 1967. What was that, 27 years ago, 
and we are still fighting this issue.
  The American people by an overwhelming majority, I think 75 to 80 
percent believe that there should be voluntary prayer in the schools. 
We see a terrible problem as far as rising crime, rising immorality, 
people are afraid to go out on their streets at night because there is 
no moral foundation in this country, and one of the reasons for that, 
in my opinion, is we have taken God completely away from the young 
people of this country. Their parents, many of them are divorced, there 
is no cohesion in the family, there is no place for them to turn, and 
there is no reliance on a Supreme Being. They do not even know that God 
exists, many of them.
  So what do they do? They turn to their peers, and they turn to street 
crime, and while we are fighting in this body and other places across 
this country for voluntary prayer in the schools, we keep wondering why 
we have a never-ending spiral of increase in the area of crime and 
disorder in this country.
  I submit that it is because we have lost our moral moorings, and we 
need to re-create that moral mooring by putting prayer back in the 
schools, voluntary prayer.
  While I am talking about this I would just like to tell Members that 
I just got a copy of a document coming from the Los Angeles unified 
school district, from the Gay and Lesbian Education Commission. They 
have a Gay and Lesbian Education Commission out there demanding that 
there be education for gays and lesbians in the schools. We have come a 
long way. We will do that. We will observe the rights of gays and 
lesbians in our schools, but we will not allow God to be brought into 
our schools.
  There is a joke going around right now. A boy drops something on the 
floor and bends down. The teacher comes and grabs him and says, ``Son, 
I am sending you to the principal because you're praying.'' And he 
said, ``I'm not praying, I'm looking for a condom.'' And she says, 
``Well, that's all right. There's nothing wrong with that.''
  Here we are in school giving out condoms and teaching kids about 
freer sex and that is all right. But it is not all right to have a 
voluntary prayer recognizing the Almighty Creator of our country and 
our world. It makes no sense.
  This country is off in the wrong direction and we need to get back on 
the beam, and the first giant step in the right direction would be to 
restore the right to voluntary prayer in our schools.
  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from 
Texas [Mr. Barton].
  (Mr. BARTON of Texas asked and was given permission to revise and 
extend his remarks, and include extraneous material.)

                              {time}  1520

  Mr. BARTON of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the Gunderson 
motion to instruct conferees which supports the Johnson amendment, 
which has already passed the House of Representatives once in this 
session of Congress, on school prayer.
  The Constitution, according to my reading, actually does protect free 
speech even in the public school systems where children voluntarily 
decide if they need the right to pray. The House bill gives that right, 
and simply says that if a school voluntarily decides that it is 
acceptable to allow voluntary prayer, they should not be denied funding 
of Federal funds for that.
  So I would hope that we would vote for the Gunderson motion to 
instruct conferees which would give the Johnson amendment, which 
already passed the House, the force of our support.
  Mr. FINGERHUT. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in opposition to Congressman 
Johnson's motion to instruct House conferees on H.R. 6 to insist on the 
House bill's provision regarding school prayer. Mr. Speaker, on the 
surface, Mr. Johnson's motion and the House language make sense. The 
House bill would deny funds to any State or school district which has a 
policy of denying or preventing participation in constitutionally 
protected prayer in public schools by individuals on a voluntary basis. 
Mr. Johnson's motion would retain that language.
  I agree that officials at our public schools should obey the law and 
allow constitutionally protected prayer in public schools. And, I agree 
that there should be legal recourse for parents in the cases where a 
student's right to pray has been abrogated. The problem, Mr. Speaker, 
lies in determining what kinds of prayer are, in fact, constitutionally 
protected. Frankly, the Supreme Court has issued decisions on this 
important issue that even Constitutional scholars find difficult to 
interpret. I do not think that we should require our public school 
superintendents to turn themselves into constitutional scholars so as 
not to jeopardize their funding under this bill. I also do not think we 
should allow funding for all disabled and disadvantaged students to be 
held hostage to any single individual who may believe that their rights 
have been violated. Such an individual has an absolute right to seek 
recourse in court. Enhancing this right by allowing an individual to 
seek a cutoff of all Federal funds is unnecessary and an unreasonable 
intrusion into the affairs of a local school district.
  At the present time, most public school officials err on the side of 
being overly cautious in allowing prayers by individual students at 
school. Without clarification from the Supreme Court, I believe that 
school superintendents who are cautious and careful should not be 
penalized or threatened in any way. Their funds should not be 
jeopardized, and to do so would be absurd.
    
    
  I will vote against Mr. Johnson's motion to instruct conferees in 
continued support for local control of public schools.
  Mr. GUNDERSON. Mr. Speaker, I have no further requests for time, and 
I yield back the balance of my time.
  Mr. FORD of Michigan. Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my 
time, and I move the previous question on the motion to instruct.
  The previous question was ordered.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Hastings). The question is on the motion 
to instruct offered by the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Gunderson].
  The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that 
the ayes appeared to have it.
  Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas. Mr. Speaker, I object to the vote on the 
ground that a quorum is not present and make the point of order that a 
quorum is not present.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Evidently a quorum is not present.
  The Sergeant at Arms will notify absent Members.
  The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--yeas 369, 
nays 55, not voting 10, as follows:

                             [Roll No. 426]

                               YEAS--369

     Allard
     Andrews (NJ)
     Andrews (TX)
     Applegate
     Archer
     Armey
     Bachus (AL)
     Baesler
     Baker (CA)
     Baker (LA)
     Ballenger
     Barca
     Barcia
     Barlow
     Barrett (NE)
     Barrett (WI)
     Bartlett
     Barton
     Bateman
     Becerra
     Bentley
     Bereuter
     Bevill
     Bilbray
     Bilirakis
     Bishop
     Blackwell
     Bliley
     Blute
     Boehlert
     Boehner
     Bonilla
     Borski
     Boucher
     Brewster
     Brooks
     Browder
     Brown (CA)
     Brown (FL)
     Brown (OH)
     Bryant
     Bunning
     Burton
     Buyer
     Byrne
     Callahan
     Calvert
     Camp
     Canady
     Cantwell
     Carr
     Castle
     Chapman
     Clayton
     Clement
     Clinger
     Clyburn
     Coble
     Coleman
     Collins (GA)
     Combest
     Condit
     Cooper
     Costello
     Cox
     Cramer
     Crane
     Crapo
     Cunningham
     Danner
     Darden
     de la Garza
     Deal
     DeLauro
     DeLay
     Derrick
     Deutsch
     Diaz-Balart
     Dickey
     Dicks
     Dingell
     Dixon
     Dooley
     Doolittle
     Dornan
     Dreier
     Duncan
     Dunn
     Durbin
     Edwards (TX)
     Ehlers
     Emerson
     English
     Evans
     Everett
     Ewing
     Fawell
     Fazio
     Fields (LA)
     Fields (TX)
     Fish
     Flake
     Foglietta
     Ford (MI)
     Ford (TN)
     Fowler
     Franks (CT)
     Franks (NJ)
     Frost
     Gallegly
     Gejdenson
     Gekas
     Gephardt
     Geren
     Gibbons
     Gilchrest
     Gillmor
     Gilman
     Gingrich
     Glickman
     Goodlatte
     Goodling
     Gordon
     Goss
     Grams
     Grandy
     Greenwood
     Gunderson
     Gutierrez
     Hall (OH)
     Hall (TX)
     Hamilton
     Hancock
     Hansen
     Hastert
     Hastings
     Hayes
     Hefley
     Hefner
     Herger
     Hilliard
     Hinchey
     Hoagland
     Hobson
     Hochbrueckner
     Hoekstra
     Hoke
     Holden
     Horn
     Houghton
     Hoyer
     Huffington
     Hunter
     Hutchinson
     Hutto
     Hyde
     Inglis
     Inslee
     Istook
     Jacobs
     Jefferson
     Johnson (CT)
     Johnson (GA)
     Johnson (SD)
     Johnson, E. B.
     Johnson, Sam
     Kanjorski
     Kaptur
     Kasich
     Kennedy
     Kennelly
     Kildee
     Kim
     King
     Kingston
     Kleczka
     Klein
     Klink
     Klug
     Knollenberg
     Kolbe
     Kreidler
     Kyl
     LaFalce
     Lambert
     Lancaster
     Lantos
     LaRocco
     Laughlin
     Lazio
     Leach
     Lehman
     Levin
     Levy
     Lewis (CA)
     Lewis (FL)
     Lewis (GA)
     Lewis (KY)
     Lightfoot
     Linder
     Lipinski
     Livingston
     Lloyd
     Long
     Lowey
     Lucas
     Machtley
     Maloney
     Mann
     Manton
     Manzullo
     Martinez
     Matsui
     Mazzoli
     McCandless
     McCloskey
     McCollum
     McCrery
     McCurdy
     McDade
     McHale
     McHugh
     McInnis
     McKeon
     McKinney
     McMillan
     McNulty
     Meek
     Menendez
     Meyers
     Mfume
     Mica
     Miller (CA)
     Miller (FL)
     Minge
     Moakley
     Molinari
     Mollohan
     Montgomery
     Moorhead
     Moran
     Morella
     Murphy
     Murtha
     Myers
     Neal (MA)
     Neal (NC)
     Nussle
     Obey
     Ortiz
     Orton
     Owens
     Oxley
     Packard
     Pallone
     Parker
     Pastor
     Paxon
     Payne (NJ)
     Payne (VA)
     Penny
     Peterson (FL)
     Peterson (MN)
     Petri
     Pickett
     Pickle
     Pombo
     Pomeroy
     Porter
     Portman
     Poshard
     Price (NC)
     Pryce (OH)
     Quillen
     Quinn
     Rahall
     Ramstad
     Rangel
     Ravenel
     Reed
     Regula
     Richardson
     Ridge
     Roberts
     Roemer
     Rogers
     Rohrabacher
     Ros-Lehtinen
     Rose
     Rostenkowski
     Roth
     Roukema
     Rowland
     Royce
     Sangmeister
     Santorum
     Sarpalius
     Sawyer
     Saxton
     Schaefer
     Schiff
     Schroeder
     Schumer
     Sensenbrenner
     Serrano
     Sharp
     Shaw
     Shays
     Shepherd
     Shuster
     Skeen
     Skelton
     Slattery
     Slaughter
     Smith (IA)
     Smith (MI)
     Smith (NJ)
     Smith (OR)
     Smith (TX)
     Snowe
     Solomon
     Spence
     Spratt
     Stearns
     Stenholm
     Strickland
     Studds
     Stump
     Stupak
     Swett
     Talent
     Tanner
     Tauzin
     Taylor (MS)
     Taylor (NC)
     Tejeda
     Thomas (CA)
     Thomas (WY)
     Thompson
     Thornton
     Thurman
     Torkildsen
     Torres
     Torricelli
     Towns
     Traficant
     Tucker
     Unsoeld
     Upton
     Valentine
     Velazquez
     Vento
     Visclosky
     Volkmer
     Vucanovich
     Walker
     Walsh
     Weldon
     Whitten
     Wilson
     Wise
     Wolf
     Woolsey
     Wyden
     Wynn
     Young (AK)
     Young (FL)
     Zeliff
     Zimmer

                                NAYS--55

     Abercrombie
     Ackerman
     Andrews (ME)
     Bacchus (FL)
     Beilenson
     Berman
     Bonior
     Cardin
     Clay
     Collins (IL)
     Collins (MI)
     Conyers
     Coppersmith
     Coyne
     DeFazio
     Edwards (CA)
     Engel
     Eshoo
     Farr
     Filner
     Fingerhut
     Frank (MA)
     Furse
     Gonzalez
     Hamburg
     Harman
     Hughes
     Johnston
     Kopetski
     Margolies-Mezvinsky
     Markey
     McDermott
     Meehan
     Mineta
     Mink
     Nadler
     Oberstar
     Olver
     Pelosi
     Reynolds
     Roybal-Allard
     Rush
     Sabo
     Sanders
     Schenk
     Scott
     Skaggs
     Stark
     Stokes
     Swift
     Waters
     Watt
     Waxman
     Williams
     Yates

                             NOT VOTING--10

     Dellums
     Gallo
     Green
     Inhofe
     Michel
     Sisisky
     Sundquist
     Synar
     Washington
     Wheat

                              {time}  1544

  Messrs. HAMBURG, MINETA, BACCHUS of Florida, SANDERS, MEEHAN, MARKEY, 
and DeFAZIO changed their vote from ``yea'' to ``nay.''
  Mr. FLAKE and Mr. DEUTSCH changed their vote from ``nay'' to ``yea.''
  So the motion to instruct was agreed to.
  The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
  A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Hastings). Without objection, the Chair 
appoints the following conferees:
  From the Committee on Education and Labor, for consideration of the 
House bill and the Senate amendment (except for sections 601-03 and 
801-05), and modifications committed to conference:
  Messrs. Ford of Michigan, Kildee, Williams, Owens, Sawyer, and Payne 
of New Jersey, Mrs. Unsoeld, Mrs. Mink of Hawaii, Messrs. Reed, Roemer, 
Engel, Becerra, and Gene Green of Texas, Ms. Woolsey, Mr. Romero-
Barcelo, Ms. English of Arizona, Messrs. Strickland, Underwood, 
Goodling, and Petri, Mrs. Roukema, Mr. Gunderson, Mr. Ballenger, Ms. 
Molinari, and Messrs. Boehner, Cunningham, McKeon, and Miller of 
Florida.
  From the Committee on Education and Labor, for consideration of 
sections 601-03 of the Senate amendment, and modifications committed to 
conference:
  Messrs. Ford of Michigan, Owens, Payne of New Jersey, Fawell, and 
Ballenger.
  From the Committee on Education and Labor, for consideration of 
sections 801-05 of the Senate amendment, and modifications committed to 
conference:
  Messrs. Ford of Michigan, Williams, Sawyer, Petri, and Gunderson.
  From the Committee on Agriculture, for consideration of sections 801-
05 of the Senate amendment, and modifications committed to conference:
  Messrs. de la Garza, Stenholm, and Roberts.
  From the Committee on Ways and Means, for consideration of sections 
601-03 of the Senate amendment, and modifications committed to 
conference:
  Messrs. Gibbons, Ford of Tennessee, and Archer.
  There was no objection.

                          ____________________