[Congressional Record Volume 140, Number 127 (Tuesday, September 13, 1994)]
[House]
[Page H]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Printing Office [www.gpo.gov]


[Congressional Record: September 13, 1994]
From the Congressional Record Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]


                              {time}  1510
 
     APPOINTMENT OF CONFEREES ON H.R. 4650, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 
                        APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1995

  Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to take from the 
Speaker's table the bill (H.R. 4650) making appropriations for the 
Department of Defense for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1995, 
and for other purposes, with Senate amendments thereto, disagree to the 
Senate amendments, and agree to the conference asked by the Senate.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Andrews of Texas). Is there objection to 
the request of the gentleman from Pennsylvania?
  There was no objection.


                motion to instruct offered by mr. walker

  Mr. WALKER. Mr. Speaker, I offer a motion to instruct conferees.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Mr. Walker moves that the managers on the part of the House 
     at the conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses 
     on the bill, H.R. 4650, be instructed to agree to the 
     following language:
       No funds appropriated under this Act shall be used to 
     deploy United States Armed Forces to Haiti or otherwise 
     support United States Armed Forces in Haiti for purposes of 
     removing the de facto regime or for subsequent peacekeeping 
     by United States Armed Forces without first obtaining the 
     prior approval of the Congress.


                             point of order

  Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Speaker, I make a point of order against the motion 
to instruct conferees. The motion instructs conferees to include matter 
outside the scope of the conferees' authority and is in violation of 
clause 3, rule XXVIII.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. 
Walker] wish to be heard on the point of order?
  Mr. WALKER. Mr. Speaker, I do wish to be heard on my motion and on 
the point of order.
  Mr. Speaker, my dear friend, the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. 
Murtha], raises the point that the instruction that I have proposed 
falls outside the scope of the legislation that we have before us.
  Mr. Speaker, the problem with the gentleman's point is the fact that 
we are about to engage, according to media reports and according to 
announcements from the administration, in an action in Haiti. This is 
not an action that was contemplated at the time the bills were being 
drafted either in the House or the Senate.
  Moreover, the troops are being deployed at the present time to Haiti 
under funds appropriated last year, none of which were for the purpose 
of an invasion of Haiti. In my view, the only place that the House has 
to legitimately address this issue is in the defense appropriations 
bill where we can limit funding if we do not believe that this 
particular action should be taken.
  This instruction, while it does not meet the strict interpretation of 
scope, is certainly within the scope of the moneys that are going to be 
utilized in the bill that is before us. There is no doubt that if this 
invasion takes place, the moneys that are going to be appropriated 
under this bill will be used in Haiti.
  This is an instruction assuring that the Congress has acted on this 
issue and assuring that none of these funds will go forward and be used 
by our Armed Forces in Haiti until there has been a prior approval by 
the Congress for that action.
  So I think this is a necessary action to take and conferees would 
then be authorized to place this language into the bills that come back 
for final action in the House. I would hope that the Chair would rule 
in favor of this as an entirely appropriate way for the House to engage 
in the issue of Haiti and assure that the Members of this House have 
had at least a vote on whether or not to engage in a combatant action 
in the nation of Haiti.
  Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Speaker, I ask for a ruling.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Andrews of Texas). The Chair is prepared 
to rule.
  The motion offered by the gentleman includes matter not within the 
scope of differences on any of the Senate amendments being sent to 
conference. The motion is, therefore, out of order under clause 3 of 
rule XXVIII.
  On page 715 of the Manual it is stated that a point of order may be 
sustained against a motion to instruct House conferees to address a 
matter beyond the scope of differences being committed to conference by 
the 215 Senate amendments.
  The Chair sustains the point of order.


                motion to instruct offered by mr. mcdade

  Mr. McDADE. Mr. Speaker, I offer a motion to instruct conferees.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Mr. McDade moves that the managers on the part of the House 
     at the conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses 
     on the bill H.R. 4650, as they resolve Senate amendment 
     numbered 214, relating to fiscal year 1994 funding for 
     Rwanda, be instructed to agree to the following provisos 
     contained in Senate amendment 214:
       ``Provided further, That no funds are available for United 
     States participation in operations in or around Rwanda after 
     October 7, 1994''; and
       ``Provided further, That any change in the mission from one 
     of strict refugee relief to security, peace-enforcing, 
     nation-building or any other substantive role, shall not be 
     implemented without the further approval of the Congress''.

  Mr. McDADE (during the reading). Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent 
that the motion be considered as read and printed in the Record.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the 
gentleman from Pennsylvania?
  There was no objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. McDade] 
will be recognized for 30 minutes, and the gentleman from Pennsylvania 
[Mr. Murtha] will be recognized for 30 minutes.
  The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. McDade].
  Mr. McDADE. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
  (Mr. McDADE asked and was given permission to revise and extend his 
remarks.)
  Mr. McDADE. Mr. Speaker, my motion is simple and straightforward--it 
would have the House conferees agree to the limits set by the Senate 
regarding our military's involvement in Rwanda.
  Mr. Speaker, when our troops were dispatched to the Rwanda area 
beginning in late July, many of us feared what was starting out as a 
mission of mercy by our troops would be transformed into a more 
difficult, expensive, lengthy, open-ended and dangerous mission. Much 
as our involvement in Somalia changed from relief to peacekeeping, and 
finally taking sides in a civil war, the terrible conditions in Rwanda 
could draw our military into a similar quagmire.
  The first week in August, our Defense Subcommittee had a chance to 
relay these concerns directly to the Secretary of Defense in a public 
hearing. And soon thereafter, the Senate passed this amendment which 
sets clear guidelines for our military involvement: that the mission be 
limited, to humanitarian relief only, and that it be concluded by 
October 7 of this year.
  Any change in that mission--be it peacekeeping, peace-enforcement, or 
so-called nation-building activities--or timetable can only occur if 
specifically approved by the Congress.
  It appears the message we were trying to send is being received. Our 
troops have performed magnificently--helping prevent a massive outbreak 
of disease and saving thousands of lives. And it appears our military's 
involvement is now winding down. While the refugee problem still 
exists, our forces are in the process of handing off the longer term 
relief requirements to the United Nations and relief agencies.
  This motion puts us on record with the Senate to ensure our 
military's involvement in Rwanda remains limited, and that the 
transition to other organizations continues. I do not mean to minimize 
the problems that remain in Rwanda--they are serious and will require 
enormous effort to resolve. But our armed forces are not, and should 
not, be part of this longer term effort.
  And I would hope this would also send a signal regarding similar 
operations involving our military. At a time when we are cutting our 
defense budget and military forces drastically, we simply cannot embark 
on open-ended missions in areas where our national security interests 
are not at stake. Today we are engaged in a number of such operations 
besides Rwanda: Around Iraq and Bosnia, and in the Caribbean--and as we 
all know the administration appears committed to an even greater use 
for our forces in such situations.

  Mr. Speaker, we may differ over the policy involved in each of these 
deployments, but we can all see these missions are pushing our 
military's resources to the limits. We are hollowing out the force, and 
unless we change direction at some point we will see our military 
continue to slide back into the conditions it was in in the late 
1970's.
  So I ask for your support for this motion, setting sensible limits on 
our mission in Rwanda.
  Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Speaker, I have no objection.
  Mr. McDADE. Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without objection, the previous question is 
ordered on the motion.
  There was no objection.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the motion to instruct 
offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. McDade].
  The motion to instruct was agreed to.
  A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without objection, the Chair appoints the 
following conferees: Messers: Murtha, Dicks, Wilson, Hefner, Sabo, 
Dixon, Visclosky, Darden, Obey, McDade, Young of Florida, Livingston, 
Lewis of California, and Skeen.
  There was no objection.


                       motion to close conference

  Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Speaker, I offer a motion.
  The Clerk read as follows:

       Mr. Murtha moves pursuant to rule XXVIII, clause 6(a) of 
     the House rules that the conference meetings between the 
     House and the Senate on the bill (H.R. 4650) making 
     appropriations for the Department of Defense for the fiscal 
     year ending September 30, 1995, and for other purposes, be 
     closed to the public at such times as classified national 
     security information is under consideration, provided, 
     however, that any sitting Member of Congress shall have the 
     right to attend any closed or open meeting.

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the motion offered by the 
gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. Murtha].
  On this motion, the vote must be taken by the yeas and nays.
  The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--yeas 376, 
nays 0, not voting 58, as follows:

                             [Roll No. 422]

                               AYES--376

     Abercrombie
     Allard
     Andrews (ME)
     Andrews (NJ)
     Andrews (TX)
     Applegate
     Archer
     Armey
     Bacchus (FL)
     Bachus (AL)
     Baesler
     Baker (CA)
     Baker (LA)
     Ballenger
     Barca
     Barcia
     Barlow
     Barrett (NE)
     Barrett (WI)
     Bartlett
     Barton
     Bateman
     Beilenson
     Bereuter
     Berman
     Bevill
     Bilbray
     Bilirakis
     Bishop
     Blackwell
     Bliley
     Blute
     Boehlert
     Boehner
     Bonilla
     Bonior
     Borski
     Boucher
     Brewster
     Brooks
     Browder
     Brown (CA)
     Brown (FL)
     Brown (OH)
     Bryant
     Bunning
     Burton
     Buyer
     Byrne
     Callahan
     Calvert
     Canady
     Cantwell
     Cardin
     Carr
     Castle
     Chapman
     Clay
     Clayton
     Clement
     Clyburn
     Coble
     Coleman
     Collins (GA)
     Collins (IL)
     Collins (MI)
     Combest
     Conyers
     Costello
     Cox
     Coyne
     Cramer
     Crane
     Crapo
     Cunningham
     Danner
     Darden
     de la Garza
     Deal
     DeLauro
     DeLay
     Dellums
     Deutsch
     Diaz-Balart
     Dicks
     Dingell
     Dixon
     Doolittle
     Duncan
     Dunn
     Durbin
     Edwards (TX)
     Ehlers
     Emerson
     English
     Eshoo
     Evans
     Everett
     Ewing
     Farr
     Fawell
     Fazio
     Fields (LA)
     Fields (TX)
     Filner
     Flake
     Foglietta
     Ford (TN)
     Fowler
     Frank (MA)
     Franks (CT)
     Franks (NJ)
     Frost
     Furse
     Gallegly
     Gejdenson
     Gekas
     Gephardt
     Geren
     Gibbons
     Gilchrest
     Gillmor
     Gilman
     Gingrich
     Glickman
     Gonzalez
     Goodlatte
     Goodling
     Gordon
     Goss
     Grandy
     Green
     Greenwood
     Gutierrez
     Hall (OH)
     Hall (TX)
     Hamburg
     Hamilton
     Hancock
     Hansen
     Harman
     Hastert
     Hastings
     Hefley
     Hefner
     Herger
     Hilliard
     Hinchey
     Hoagland
     Hobson
     Hochbrueckner
     Hoekstra
     Hoke
     Holden
     Horn
     Houghton
     Hoyer
     Hughes
     Hunter
     Hutchinson
     Hutto
     Hyde
     Inglis
     Inslee
     Istook
     Jacobs
     Jefferson
     Johnson (CT)
     Johnson (GA)
     Johnson (SD)
     Johnson, E.B.
     Johnson, Sam
     Johnston
     Kanjorski
     Kaptur
     Kasich
     Kennedy
     Kennelly
     Kildee
     Kim
     King
     Kingston
     Kleczka
     Klein
     Klink
     Klug
     Knollenberg
     Kolbe
     Kreidler
     Kyl
     LaFalce
     Lambert
     Lancaster
     Lantos
     LaRocco
     Lazio
     Leach
     Lehman
     Levin
     Levy
     Lewis (GA)
     Lewis (KY)
     Lightfoot
     Linder
     Lipinski
     Livingston
     Lloyd
     Long
     Lowey
     Lucas
     Manton
     Manzullo
     Margolies-Mezvinsky
     Markey
     Martinez
     Matsui
     Mazzoli
     McCandless
     McCloskey
     McCollum
     McCrery
     McDade
     McHale
     McHugh
     McInnis
     McKeon
     McKinney
     McMillan
     McNulty
     Meehan
     Meek
     Menendez
     Meyers
     Mica
     Michel
     Miller (FL)
     Mineta
     Minge
     Moakley
     Molinari
     Montgomery
     Moorhead
     Moran
     Morella
     Murphy
     Murtha
     Myers
     Neal (MA)
     Neal (NC)
     Nussle
     Oberstar
     Obey
     Olver
     Ortiz
     Orton
     Oxley
     Packard
     Pallone
     Parker
     Pastor
     Paxon
     Payne (NJ)
     Pelosi
     Penny
     Peterson (FL)
     Peterson (MN)
     Petri
     Pickett
     Pickle
     Pombo
     Pomeroy
     Porter
     Portman
     Poshard
     Price (NC)
     Pryce (OH)
     Quillen
     Quinn
     Rahall
     Ramstad
     Ravenel
     Reed
     Regula
     Reynolds
     Richardson
     Ridge
     Roberts
     Roemer
     Rogers
     Rohrabacher
     Ros-Lehtinen
     Rose
     Roukema
     Rowland
     Roybal-Allard
     Royce
     Rush
     Sabo
     Sanders
     Sangmeister
     Santorum
     Sarpalius
     Sawyer
     Saxton
     Schaefer
     Schenk
     Schiff
     Schroeder
     Schumer
     Scott
     Sensenbrenner
     Shaw
     Shays
     Shepherd
     Shuster
     Sisisky
     Skaggs
     Skeen
     Skelton
     Slaughter
     Smith (IA)
     Smith (MI)
     Smith (NJ)
     Smith (TX)
     Snowe
     Solomon
     Spence
     Spratt
     Stark
     Stearns
     Stenholm
     Stokes
     Strickland
     Studds
     Stump
     Stupak
     Swift
     Talent
     Tanner
     Tauzin
     Taylor (MS)
     Taylor (NC)
     Tejeda
     Thomas (CA)
     Thompson
     Thornton
     Thurman
     Torkildsen
     Torres
     Torricelli
     Traficant
     Tucker
     Unsoeld
     Upton
     Valentine
     Vento
     Visclosky
     Volkmer
     Vucanovich
     Walker
     Walsh
     Waters
     Watt
     Waxman
     Weldon
     Wheat
     Whitten
     Williams
     Wise
     Wolf
     Woolsey
     Wyden
     Young (AK)
     Young (FL)
     Zeliff
     Zimmer

                             NOT VOTING--58

     Ackerman
     Becerra
     Bentley
     Camp
     Clinger
     Condit
     Cooper
     Coppersmith
     DeFazio
     Derrick
     Dickey
     Dooley
     Dornan
     Dreier
     Edwards (CA)
     Engel
     Fingerhut
     Fish
     Ford (MI)
     Gallo
     Grams
     Gunderson
     Hayes
     Huffington
     Inhofe
     Kopetski
     Laughlin
     Lewis (CA)
     Lewis (FL)
     Machtley
     Maloney
     Mann
     McCurdy
     McDermott
     Mfume
     Miller (CA)
     Mink
     Mollohan
     Nadler
     Owens
     Payne (VA)
     Rangel
     Rostenkowski
     Roth
     Serrano
     Sharp
     Slattery
     Smith (OR)
     Sundquist
     Swett
     Synar
     Thomas (WY)
     Towns
     Velazquez
     Washington
     Wilson
     Wynn
     Yates

                              {time}  1539

  So the motion was agreed to.
  The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
  A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.

                          ____________________