[Congressional Record Volume 140, Number 58 (Thursday, May 12, 1994)]
[House]
[Page H]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Printing Office [www.gpo.gov]
[Congressional Record: May 12, 1994]
From the Congressional Record Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
PROVIDING FOR CONSIDERATION OF H.R. 2483, THE MONTANA WILDERNESS ACT OF
1994
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker, by direction of the Committee on Rules, I
call up House Resolution 423 and ask for its immediate consideration.
The Clerk read the resolution, as follows:
H. Res. 423
Resolved, That at any time after the adoption of this
resolution the Speaker may, pursuant to clause 1(b) of rule
XXIII, declare the House resolved into the Committee of the
Whole House on the state of the Union for consideration of
the bill (H.R. 2473) to designate certain National Forest
lands in the State of Montana as wilderness, to release other
National Forest lands in the State of Montana for multiple
use management, and for other purposes. The first reading of
the bill shall be dispensed with. Points of order against
consideration of the bill for failure to comply with clause
2(l)(6) of rule XI are waived. General debate shall be
confined to the bill and shall not exceed ninety minutes,
with sixty minutes equally divided and controlled by the
chairman and ranking minority member of the Committee on
Natural Resources, fifteen minutes equally divided and
controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the
Committee on Agriculture, and fifteen minutes equally divided
and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of
the Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries. After general
debate the bill shall be considered for amendment under the
five-minute rule. It shall be in order to consider as an
original bill for the purpose of amendment under the five-
minute rule the amendment in the nature of a substitute
recommended by the Committee on Natural Resources now printed
in the bill. Each section of the committee amendment in the
nature of a substitute shall be considered as read. Points of
order against the committee amendment in the nature of a
substitute for failure to comply with clause 5(a) of rule XXI
are waived. At the conclusion of consideration of the bill
for amendment the Committee shall rise and report the bill to
the House with such amendments as may have been adopted. Any
Member may demand a separate vote in the House on any
amendment adopted in the Committee of the Whole to the bill
or to the committee amendment in the nature of a substitute.
The previous question shall be considered as ordered on the
bill and amendments thereto to final passage without
intervening motion except one motion to recommit with or
without instructions.
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Serrano). The gentleman from Tennessee
[Mr. Gordon] is recognized for 1 hour.
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker, I yield the customary 30 minutes, for the
purpose of debate only, to the gentleman from California [Mr. Dreier],
pending which I yield myself such time as I may consume. During
consideration of this resolution, all time yielded is for the purpose
of debate only.
(Mr. GORDON asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker, House Resolution 423 is an open rule which
provides for the consideration of H.R. 2473, the Montana Wilderness
Act.
The rule provides for 90 minutes of general debate; 1 hour to be
equally divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority
member of the Natural Resources Committee, 15 minutes to be equally
divided and controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of
the Agriculture Committee, and 15 minutes to be equally divided and
controlled by the chairman and ranking minority member of the Merchant
Marine and Fisheries Committee.
The rule waives clause 2(l)(6) of rule XI--which requires a 3-day
layover of legislation reported from committee--against consideration
of the bill.
The rule makes in order the Natural Resources Committee amendment in
the nature of substitute now printed in the bill as an original bill
for the purposes of amendment, with each section considered as read.
The rule also waives clause 5(A) of rule XXI--which prohibits
appropriations in a legislative bill--against the committee substitute.
Finally, the rule provides one motion to recommit with or without
instructions.
Mr. Speaker, since 1983, 10 pieces of legislation have been
introduced making various wilderness designations in Montana, and
numerous hearings have been held in the House and the Senate. Congress
passed one of the bills in the 100th Congress, but it was pocket
vetoed.
H.R. 2473 adds nearly 1.7 million acres to the 3.4 million acres
currently protected as wilderness in Montana and sets aside an
additional 375,000 acres as wilderness study areas.
Approximately 240,000 acres are set aside for special management by
the Forest Service, and 3.2 million acres will be released from
wilderness protection for logging, mining, oil drilling and road
construction.
I want to commend Chairman George Miller and subcommittee Chairman
Bruce Vento along with Congressman Pat Williams for their hard work. If
it were not for their dedication to the substance of the bill and their
legislative ability, this legislation would not be before the House
today.
Mr. Speaker, this is an open rule. I encourage my colleagues to adopt
the resolution.
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
(Mr. DREIER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks, and to include extraneous matter.)
{time} 1450
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the gentleman from
California [Mr. Miller], chairman of the Committee on Natural
Resources, for requesting an open rule on this bill, calling for an
open amendment process. I like to refer to him as Mr. Open Rule for his
unbroken streak of open rule requests. It is unfortunate, however, that
streak apparently is going to come to an abrupt end next week when we
bring up the California Desert Protection Act.
The request of the gentleman from California [Mr. Miller],
notwithstanding, I oppose this rule because it waives clause 2(l)(6) of
rule XI requiring a 3-day layover so Members can have an opportunity to
review the bill before it is considered.
The Committee on Natural Resources filed its report on H.R. 2473 on
April 28, but the Committee on Agriculture, very ably chaired by our
friend, the gentleman from Texas [Mr. de la Garza], which also had
jurisdiction over the bill, did not file its report until May 10, just
2 days ago, and a printed copy was not available until yesterday.
It is important to note that the bill reported by the Committee on
Agriculture is different than the one reported by the Committee on
Natural Resources. In addition, whereas the Committee on Natural
Resources bill was reported by a voice vote, the Committee on
Agriculture bill was reported by a very narrow 22 to 19 margin. While
the Committee on Agriculture bill is not the text that the House bill
will consider for amendment, Members deserve an opportunity to compare
the two bills and understand why there was such strong opposition in
the Committee on Agriculture.
Mr. Speaker, it is very important that the 3-day layover rule be
followed, particularly on this legislation, because it raises a number
of very complicated private property rights questions. For this reason,
Mr. Speaker, I urge a no vote on the rule.
Mr. Speaker, for the Record, I include some statistics on open versus
restrictive rules in the 95th through 103d Congresses, as well as the
roll call votes on this rule in the Committee on Rules.
Rollcall Votes in the Rules Committee on the Rule for Montana
Wilderness Act (H.R. 2473), Wednesday, May 11, 1994
1. Strike three-day layover waiver--Motion to strike waiver
of clause 2(1)(6) of rule XI (three-day layover requirement
for committee reports. Rejected: 3-4. Yeas: Solomon, Quillen,
and Dreier. Nays: Moakley, Derrick, Beilenson, and Gordon.
Not voting: Frost, Bonior, Hall, Wheat, Slaughter, and Goss.
2. Report rule--Motion or order rule reported as moved.
Adopted: 4-3. Yeas: Moakely, Derrick, Beilenson and Gordon.
Nays: Solomon, Quillen, and Dreier. Not voting: Frost,
Bonior, Hall, Wheat, Slaughter, and Goss.
OPEN VERSUS RESTRICTIVE RULES 95TH-103D CONG.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Open rules Restrictive rules
Congress (years) Total rules ---------------------------------------
granted\1\ Number Percent\2\ Number Percent\3\
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
95th (1977-78)............................................. 211 179 85 32 15
96th (1979-80)............................................. 214 161 75 53 25
97th (1981-82)............................................. 120 90 75 30 25
98th (1983-84)............................................. 155 105 68 50 32
99th (1985-86)............................................. 115 65 57 50 43
100th (1987-88)............................................ 123 66 54 57 46
101st (1989-90)............................................ 104 47 45 57 55
102d (1991-92)............................................. 109 37 34 72 66
103d (1993-94)............................................. 64 14 22 50 78
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\Total rules counted are all order of business resolutions reported from the Rules Committee which provide for
the initial consideration of legislation, except rules on appropriations bills which only waive points of
order. Original jurisdiction measures reported as privileged are also not counted.
\2\Open rules are those which permit any Member to offer any germane amendment to a measure so long as it is
otherwise in compliance with the rules of the House. The parenthetical percentages are open rules as a percent
of total rules granted.
\3\Restrictive rules are those which limit the number of amendments which can be offered, and include so-called
modified open and modified closed rules, as well as completely closed rule, and rules providing for
consideration in the House as opposed to the Committee of the Whole. The parenthetical percentages are
restrictive rules as a percent of total rules granted.
Sources: ``Rules Committee Calendars & Surveys of Activities,'' 95th-102d Cong.; ``Notices of Action Taken,''
Committee on Rules, 103d Cong., through May 12, 1994.
OPEN VERSUS RESTRICTIVE RULES: 103D CONG.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule Amendments
Rule number date reported type Bill number and subject submitted Amendments allowed Disposition of rule and date
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H. Res. 58, Feb. 2, 1993...... MC H.R. 1: Family and medical 30 (D-5; R-25).. 3 (D-0; R-3).............. PQ: 246-176. A: 259-164. (Feb. 3,
leave. 1993).
H. Res. 59, Feb. 3, 1993...... MC H.R. 2: National Voter 19 (D-1; R-18).. 1 (D-0; R-1).............. PQ: 248-171. A: 249-170. (Feb. 4,
Registration Act. 1993).
H. Res. 103, Feb. 23, 1993.... C H.R. 920: Unemployment 7 (D-2; R-5).... 0 (D-0; R-0).............. PQ: 243-172. A: 237-178. (Feb.
compensation. 24, 1993).
H. Res. 106, Mar. 2, 1993..... MC H.R. 20: Hatch Act amendments 9 (D-1; R-8).... 3 (D-0; R-3).............. PQ: 248-166. A: 249-163. (Mar. 3,
1993).
H. Res. 119, Mar. 9, 1993..... MC H.R. 4: NIH Revitalization 13 (d-4; R-9)... 8 (D-3; R-5).............. PQ: 247-170. A: 248-170. (Mar.
Act of 1993. 10, 1993).
H. Res. 132, Mar. 17, 1993.... MC H.R. 1335: Emergency 37 (D-8; R-29).. 1(not submitted) (D-1; R- A: 240-185. (Mar. 18, 1993).
supplemental Appropriations. 0).
H. Res. 133, Mar. 17, 1993.... MC H. Con. Res. 64: Budget 14 (D-2; R-12).. 4 (1-D not submitted) (D- PQ: 250-172. A: 251-172. (Mar.
resolution. 2; R-2). 18, 1993).
H. Res. 138, Mar. 23, 1993.... MC H.R. 670: Family planning 20 (D-8; R-12).. 9 (D-4; R-5).............. PQ: 252-164. A: 247-169. (Mar.
amendments. 24, 1993).
H. Res. 147, Mar. 31, 1993.... C H.R. 1430: Increase Public 6 (D-1; R-5).... 0 (D-0; R-0).............. PQ: 244-168. A: 242-170. (Apr. 1,
debt limit. 1993).
H. Res. 149 Apr. 1, 1993...... MC H.R. 1578: Expedited 8 (D-1; R-7).... 3 (D-1; R-2).............. A: 212-208. (Apr. 28, 1993).
Rescission Act of 1993.
H. Res. 164, May 4, 1993...... O H.R. 820: Nate NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (May 5, 1993).
Competitiveness Act.
H. Res. 171, May 18, 1993..... O H.R. 873: Gallatin Range Act NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (May 20, 1993).
of 1993.
H. Res. 172, May 18, 1993..... O H.R. 1159: Passenger Vessel NA.............. NA........................ A: 308-0 (May 24, 1993).
Safety Act.
H. Res. 173 May 18, 1993...... MC S.J. Res. 45: United States 6 (D-1; R-5).... 6 (D-1; R-5).............. A: Voice Vote (May 20, 1993)
forces in Somalia.
H. Res. 183, May 25, 1993..... O H.R. 2244: 2d supplemental NA.............. NA........................ A: 251-174. (May 26, 1993).
appropriations.
H. Res. 186, May 27, 1993..... MC H.R. 2264: Omnibus budget 51 (D-19; R-32). 8 (D-7; R-1).............. PQ: 252-178. A: 236-194 (May 27,
reconciliation. 1993).
H. Res. 192, June 9, 1993..... MC H.R. 2348: Legislative branch 50 (D-6; R-44).. 6 (D-3; R-3).............. PQ: 240-177. A: 226-185. (June
appropriations. 10, 1993).
H. Res. 193, June 10, 1993.... O H.R. 2200: NASA authorization NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (June 14, 1993).
H. Res. 195, June 14, 1993.... MC H.R. 5: Striker replacement.. 7 (D-4; R-3).... 2 (D-1; R-1).............. A: 244-176.. (June 15, 1993).
H. Res. 197, June 15, 1993.... MO H.R. 2333: State Department. 53 (D-20; R-33). 27 (D-12; R-15)........... A: 294-129. (June 16, 1993).
H.R. 2404: Foreign aid.
H. Res. 199, June 16, 1993.... C H.R. 1876: Ext. of ``Fast NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (June 22, 1993).
Track''.
H. Res. 200, June 16, 1993.... MC H.R. 2295: Foreign operations 33 (D-11; R-22). 5 (D-1; R-4).............. A: 263-160. (June 17, 1993).
appropriations.
H. Res. 201, June 17, 1993.... O H.R. 2403: Treasury-postal NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (June 17, 1993).
appropriations.
H. Res. 203, June 22, 1993.... MO H.R. 2445: Energy and Water NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (June 23, 1993).
appropriations.
H. Res. 206, June 23, 1993.... O H.R. 2150: Coast Guard NA.............. NA........................ A: 401-0. (July 30, 1993).
authorization.
H. Res. 217, July 14, 1993.... MO H.R. 2010: National Service NA.............. NA........................ A: 261-164. (July 21, 1993).
Trust Act.
H. Res. 220, July 21, 1993.... MC H.R. 2667: Disaster 14 (D-8; R-6)... 2 (D-2; R-0).............. PQ: 245-178. F: 205-216. (July
assistance supplemental. 22, 1993).
H. Res. 226, July 23, 1993.... MC H.R. 2667: Disaster 15 (D-8; R-7)... 2 (D-2; R-0).............. A: 224-205. (July 27, 1993).
assistance supplemental.
H. Res. 229, July 28, 1993.... MO H.R. 2330: Intelligence NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (Aug. 3, 1993).
Authority Act, fiscal year
1994.
H. Res. 230, July 28, 1993.... O H.R. 1964: Maritime NA.............. NA........................ A: Voice Vote. (July 29, 1993).
Administration authority.
H. Res. 246, Aug. 6, 1993..... MO H.R. 2401: National Defense 149 (D-109; R- .......................... A: 246-172. (Sept. 8, 1993).
authority. 40).
H. Res. 248, Sept. 9, 1993.... MO H.R. 2401: National defense ................ .......................... PQ: 237-169. A: 234-169. (Sept.
authorization. 13, 1993).
H. Res. 250, Sept. 13, 1993... MC H.R. 1340: RTC Completion Act 12 (D-3; R-9)... 1 (D-1; R-0).............. A: 213-191-1. (Sept. 14, 1993).
H. Res. 254, Sept. 22, 1993... MO H.R. 2401: National Defense ................ 91 (D-67; R-24)........... A: 241-182. (Sept. 28, 1993).
authorization.
H. Res. 262, Sept. 28, 1993... O H.R. 1845: National NA.............. NA........................ A: 238-188 (10/06/93).
Biological Survey Act.
H. Res. 264, Sept. 28, 1993... MC H.R. 2351: Arts, humanities, 7 (D-0; R-7).... 3 (D-0; R-3).............. PQ: 240-185. A: 225-195. (Oct.
museums. 14, 1993).
H. Res. 265, Sept. 29, 1993... MC H.R. 3167: Unemployment 3 (D-1; R-2).... 2 (D-1; R-1).............. A: 239-150. (Oct. 15, 1993).
compensation amendments.
H. Res. 269, Oct. 6, 1993..... MO H.R. 2739: Aviation N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote. (Oct. 7, 1993).
infrastructure investment.
H. Res. 273, Oct. 12, 1993.... MC H.R. 3167: Unemployment 3 (D-1; R-2).... 2 (D-1; R-1).............. PQ: 235-187. F: 149-254. (Oct.
compensation amendments. 14, 1993).
H. Res. 274, Oct. 12, 1993.... MC H.R. 1804: Goals 2000 Educate 15 (D-7; R-7; I- 10 (D-7; R-3)............. A: Voice Vote. (Oct. 13, 1993).
America Act. 1).
H. Res. 282, Oct. 20, 1993.... C H.J. Res. 281: Continuing N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote. (Oct. 21, 1993).
appropriations through Oct.
28, 1993.
H. Res. 286, Oct. 27, 1993.... O H.R. 334: Lumbee Recognition N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote. (Oct. 28, 1993).
Act.
H. Res. 287, Oct. 27, 1993.... C H.J. Res. 283: Continuing 1 (D-0; R-0).... 0......................... A: 252-170. (Oct. 28, 1993).
appropriations resolution.
H. Res. 289, Oct. 28, 1993.... O H.R. 2151: Maritime Security N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote. (Nov. 3, 1993).
Act of 1993.
H. Res. 293, Nov. 4, 1993..... MC H. Con. Res. 170: Troop N/A............. N/A....................... A: 390-8. (Nov. 8, 1993).
withdrawal Somalia.
H. Res. 299, Nov. 8, 1993..... MO H.R. 1036: Employee 2 (D-1; R-1).... N/A....................... A: Voice Vote. (Nov. 9, 1993).
Retirement Act-1993.
H. Res. 302, Nov. 9, 1993..... MC H.R. 1025: Brady handgun bill 17 (D-6; R-11).. 4 (D-1; R-3).............. A: 238-182. (Nov. 10, 1993).
H. Res. 303, Nov. 9, 1993..... O H.R. 322: Mineral exploration N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote. (Nov. 16, 1993).
H. Res. 304, Nov. 9, 1993..... C H.J. Res. 288: Further CR, FY N/A............. N/A....................... .................................
1994.
H. Res. 312, Nov. 17, 1993.... MC H.R. 3425: EPA Cabinet Status 27 (D-8; R-19).. 9 (D-1; R-8).............. F: 191-227. (Feb. 2, 1994).
H. Res. 313, Nov. 17, 1993.... MC H.R. 796: Freedom Access to 15 (D-9; R-6)... 4 (D-1; R-3).............. A: 233-192. (Nov. 18, 1993).
Clinics.
H. Res. 314, Nov. 17, 1993.... MC H.R. 3351: Alt Methods Young 21 (D-7; R-14).. 6 (D-3; R-3).............. A: 238-179. (Nov. 19, 1993).
Offenders.
H. Res. 316, Nov. 19, 1993.... C H.R. 51: D.C. statehood bill. 1 (D-1; R-0).... N/A....................... A: 252-172. (Nov. 20, 1993).
H. Res. 319, Nov. 20, 1993.... MC H.R. 3: Campaign Finance 35 (D-6; R-29).. 1 (D-0; R-1).............. A: 220-207. (Nov. 21, 1993).
Reform.
H. Res. 320, Nov. 20, 1993.... MC H.R. 3400: Reinventing 34 (D-15; R-19). 3 (D-3; R-0).............. A: 247-183. (Nov. 22, 1993).
Government.
H. Res. 336, Feb. 2, 1994..... MC H.R. 3759: Emergency 14 (D-8; R-5; I- 5 (D-3; R-2).............. PQ: 244-168. A: 342-65. (Feb. 3,
Supplemental Appropriations. 1). 1994).
H. Res. 352, Feb. 8, 1994..... MC H.R. 811: Independent Counsel 27 (D-8; R-19).. 10 (D-4; R-6)............. PQ: 249-174. A: 242-174. (Feb. 9,
Act. 1994).
H. Res. 357, Feb. 9, 1994..... MC H.R. 3345: Federal Workforce 3 (D-2; R-1).... 2 (D-2; R-0).............. A: VV (Feb. 10, 1994).
Restructuring.
H. Res. 366, Feb. 23, 1994.... MO H.R. 6: Improving America's NA.............. NA........................ A: VV (Feb. 24, 1994).
Schools.
H. Res. 384, Mar. 9, 1994..... MC H. Con. Res. 218: Budget 14 (D-5; R-9)... 5 (D-3; R-2).............. A: 245-171 (Mar. 10, 1994).
Resolution FY 1995-99.
H. Res. 401, Apr. 12, 1994.... MO H.R. 4092: Violent Crime 180 (D-98; R-82) 68 (D-47; R-21)........... A: 244-176 (Apr. 13, 1994).
Control.
H. Res. 410, Apr. 21, 1994.... MO H.R. 3221: Iraqi Claims Act.. N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote (Apr. 28, 1994).
H. Res. 414, Apr. 28, 1994.... O H.R. 3254: NSF Auth. Act..... N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote (May 3, 1994).
H. Res. 416, May 4, 1994...... C H.R. 4296: Assault Weapons 7 (D-5; R-2).... 0 (D-0; R-0).............. A: 220-209 (May 5, 1994).
Ban Act.
H. Res. 420, May 5, 1994...... O H.R. 2442: EDA N/A............. N/A....................... A: Voice Vote (May 10, 1994).
Reauthorization.
H. Res. 422, May 11, 1994..... MO H.R. 518: California Desert N/A............. N/A....................... .................................
Protection.
H. Res. 423, May 11, 1994..... O H.R. 2473: Montana Wilderness N/A............. N/A....................... .................................
Act.
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Note.--Code: C-Closed; MC-Modified closed; MO-Modified open; O-Open; D-Democrat; R-Republican; PQ: Previous question; A-Adopted; F-Failed.
Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, the Committee on Agriculture reported H.R. 2473 on April
28, 1994, and filed the report on May 10, 1994. The bill was reported
out of the Committee on Agriculture without amendment. The committee
report consisted of 11 pages, including additional minority reviews.
The report was available to the membership yesterday.
Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the gentleman
from Montana [Mr. Williams].
Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Speaker, I thank the Committee on Rules, the
Committee on Natural Resources, the Committee on Agriculture, and the
Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries for bringing this bill
before us today. The Montana wilderness bill has been under
consideration in every Congress since 1986, and with no resolution. So
I have begun this process in this Congress with determination, but also
with patience, and frustration.
I began this process 16 years ago because I believed that this
consideration is critically important. Our Federal land managers
believe it is critical to the future management of the public land in
Montana. Our resource dependent industries, timber and mining, cry out
for a resolution and management certainty. Our State's public and our
State's private game managers believe it is important if we are to
continue our world class quality hunting in Montana without resorting
to a lottery.
The citizens in our local communities are demanding, insisting, for
an end to the 16 years of controversy and disagreement.
With this bill, I have introduced five pieces of legislation
specifically addressing the remaining RARE II wilderness designations
in Montana. This is the 15th piece of legislation introduced by some
Member or other of the Montana delegation on this issue. If this bill
is fortunate enough to move through the House of Representatives, it
will be the sixth time this House of Representatives has passed
legislation, and once both the House and Senate passed the same
legislation, and it was vetoed, tragically, by former President Reagan.
The statistics of consideration are impressive by any legislative
standards in the history of this country. Fifteen pieces of legislation
introduced over 16 years. This issue has been the subject of 50
congressional hearings. We have had 235 hours of direct testimony. The
Congress has 20 volumes of printed hearing records on this issue. We
have testimony from many hundreds of Montanans. We have testimony from
dozens of Montana organizations. And, by the way, the other day I
counted, these organizations have claimed in total to represent
citizens of Montana who double the actual number of people living in
our state.
My colleagues, Montanans and Americans have waited long enough. This
is a good bill. This is a bill about the public lands, and the bill was
made in Montana. It enjoys the support, almost overwhelming support, of
the members of the three committees to which it was referred. I am
pleased again with the members of the Committee on Rules, who have
brought this bill out on the floor with an open rule.
I want to say, finally, that I requested an open rule on this bill. I
want openness on this bill. And heaven knows, that after 16 years and
two-hundred-plus hour of direct testimony, after multiple
considerations in both the House and Senate, this wilderness
consideration process has been as open, if not more open, in fact more
open, than any that has come before the Congress in its long history.
And I am pleased that the Committee on Rules is again today asking for
an open rule, so that all Members are protected in their attempt to
make whatever changes they desire in my legislation.
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the
gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. Vento], the chairman of the Subcommittee
on National Parks, Forests, and Public Lands, that shepherded this bill
to the floor.
(Mr. VENTO asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. VENTO. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the rule offered by our
friend and colleague, the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. Gordon]. I
think this is a fair rule. The primary jurisdiction for wilderness
designations is with the Committee on Natural Resources. We have worked
in a deliberate manner with open hearings on the issue and dealing with
a significant classification of these wild lands in Montana. There are
nearly 6 million acres of national forest roadless lands in the Great
State of Montana, the Great Sky Country.
The rule makes the Committee on Natural Resources version of H.R.
2473 the vehicle for floor action. This is appropriate. As I say, we
have the jurisdiction over these Western wilderness designations. We
share some jurisdiction with the Committee on Agriculture simply on the
manner in which the lands that are not declared wilderness will be
released. The Committee on Agriculture reported the bill as introduced
and did not make the modifications in the release language, as we call
it, that is, the language that directs the management of the remaining
lands in this area that are not designated as wilderness.
I think we have crafted a good alternative here, and commend it to
Members. Obviously there has been some concern expressed how long the
report from the Committee on Agriculture has been available, but really
the basic changes have been before the body for a long time. They will
have further time to review this before we take up the measure on
general debate and under an open rule next Tuesday. So I think any type
of concern about that should be allayed on that basis.
We are moving deliberately and hopefully conclusively on the
important issue of Montana wilderness, something that has been waiting
for over a dozen years, as my colleague said. So I urge the support of
Members for the rule, and thank the gentleman for yielding time.
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he may consume to the
gentleman from California [Mr. Miller], the chairman of the full
Committee on Natural Resources.
Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for
yielding time to me.
Mr. Speaker, once again the Natural Resources Committee is bringing
before the House a statewide, national forest wilderness bill and once
again that State is Montana. As before, the committee presents a bill
that meets our obligation to protect the remnants of the magnificent
wilderness that is at the heart of our natural heritage, while fairly
and responsibly recognizing the legitimate interests and concerns of
local residents.
For more than a decade, it has been the House and the House Natural
Resources Committee that has set the standard for achieving that kind
of balance. When all the dust of competing proposals and amendments has
settled, the record will show that the wilderness designations and the
management provisions crafted by the House and the Natural Resources
Committee have been the basis for laws signed by both Republican and
Democratic Presidents.
Once again today, you will hear this bill attacked from the left and
from the right. You will hear that the bill locks up too many resources
and that it violates Montana's rights to control its water. But as the
gentleman from Montana [Mr. Williams] will tell you, we have worked
long and hard with Montanans to draw the boundaries and select the
wilderness areas that meet their concerns. At the same time, the
release and water rights language are consistent with positions that
the House has taken often and rightly so, and is so doing repeatedly
and without exception rejecting amendments to weaken them.
From the other side, you will hear that the Interior Committee bill
is inadequate, even that it is a sell-out of Montana's remaining
wildlands. I sympathize and share concern with those who have watched
our forests mismanaged, our old growth cut down and our wilderness
roaded and who warn that we have a real crisis on our hands. They are
right.
But to characterize the Natural Resources Committee bill as anything
less than a strong statement for protection of Montana wilderness is
just plain wrong. In 1979, the Forest Service completed its review of
almost 6 million acres of roadless lands in Montana. It recommended
900,000 acres for wilderness. Since that day, those 900,000 acres have
been managed as wilderness and the rest--more than 5 million acres--
have been managed for multiple use under forest plans. Today, the
committee bill proposes that every one of those 900,000 acres, plus
another 2 million acres, be placed in wilderness or similar land
management categories. In other words, every acre of Montana forests
that have been managed as wilderness will continue to be so managed and
another 2 million acres that have been managed for multiple use will be
managed as wilderness. No lands receive a lesser standard of protection
than they have today. Rarely has the committee been able to say this
about any wilderness bill.
Despite all the criticism, Mr. Speaker, I know that any honest and
dispassionate analysis would conclude that this bill is cut from the
same cloth as Forest Service wilderness bills--now law--for Washington
and Oregon, for California, for Arizona and New Mexico, for Utah,
Nevada, Colorado and Wyoming and many other States. They are all bills
that sprung from this House and they are all laws of which this
Congress and this Nation are justifiably proud. If anything, the many
years of hard labor by Mr. Williams and Mr. Vento have made this a
superior bill.
The House has a responsibility to exercise its own considered
judgement with regard to which areas should be designated wilderness,
how the Federal rights to protect wilderness water resources should be
exercised and how lands not designated should be managed.
But I am confident that the Natural Resources Committee has done so
in a responsible and reasonable manner under extremely difficult
circumstances and I urge my colleagues to support it.
{time} 1500
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, I urge a ``no'' vote on this rule, the
reason being that this violates the 3-day layover provisions. All
Members should have an opportunity to carefully consider this measure
before we proceed. I hope that my colleagues will join me in voting
against the rule.
Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, let me just remind the Members of two things: First of
all, this is an open rule. Second, although we are passing the rule
today, we will not be taking up this legislation until next Tuesday.
There is plenty of time for Members to consider this bill, particularly
keeping in mind that this has been before us for 16 years. I think it
is time we move forward, move forward with an open rule.
Mr. Speaker, I have no further requests for time, I yield back the
balance of my time, and I move the previous question on the resolution.
The previous question was ordered.
The resolution was agreed to.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
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