[Congressional Record Volume 140, Number 33 (Tuesday, March 22, 1994)]
[House]
[Page H]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Printing Office [www.gpo.gov]
[Congressional Record: March 22, 1994]
From the Congressional Record Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
{time} 2050
THE CLINTON YEARS: PART 3
Mr. DORNAN. Madam Speaker, I was glad to yield to the gentleman.
Anything for a North Carolinian. North Carolina, ``First in Flight.'' I
am even wearing my Wright Brothers tie tonight.
There is nothing more frustrating here than having to interrupt your
thoughts as the clock is chasing you.
Madam Speaker, I want to continue what I have just loosely called
``the Clinton years, part 3,'' and begin tonight with something from
yesterday's Wall Street Journal that I found very disturbing. It is a
description of the fine State of Arkansas that matches something I
tried to describe in this well in September and in October of the
election year, 1992.
There is a newsletter that has just come into my possession by Kevin
Phillips, published by the American Political Research Corporation. It
is called the ``American Political Report.''
The headline is, ``Whitewater, The Politics of a Second Watergate.''
When you say this to anyone in the dominant media culture who is a
gentleman and admits they are liberal, a lady of the same honor, and
they are rare, most of them claim that they are perched on some
Olympian peak of moderate perfection. When you mention in the same
breath Whitewater or Watergate or refer to Whitewater as White
Watergate, as does the great columnist for the New York Times, Bill
Safire, they go ballistic on you.
Here are some of the subtitles in Kevin Phillips' American Political
Report:
``Clinton, Whitewater and the Polls,'' and the polls are moving
severely against Mr. Clinton. ``The Clinton Scandals, a 20th Century
Political Perspective.'' I will come back to that. ``The Hillary Rodham
Factor, the Clinton Scandals in the Midterm Elections.'' That is a
fascinating part 4. ``June Congressional Hearings on Whitewater.'' It
may be a lot sooner than June, after what happened in this House today.
By a vote of 408 to 15, the House of Representatives, the people's
great Chamber, has joined that 98 to 0 vote in the U.S. Senate to start
hearings as soon as possible.
``Six Clinton Legal Vulnerabilities,'' this is a nightmare for the
White House, ``Obstruction of Justice, Shredding of Evidence,
Intimidating or Offering Payment to Witnesses or Offering Promotions,
Jobs to Arkansas Troopers,'' which was not mentioned in there. This is
under that heading number 6 of ``Legal Vulnerabilities.''
``Whitewater Illegal Financial Dealings, Troopergate.'' There it is.
Good, Kevin. ``Sexual Harassment, Wrongful Death Conspiracy.''
Then category 7, ``A Clinton Vulnerability Scenario.'' That is truly
a nightmare.
Number 8, ``Impeachment Possibilities,'' the big ``I'' word finally
in print, albeit in a newsletter.
Number 9, ``The Clinton Scandals and the Impact on '96.'' And then
under the headline of ``The National Politics,'' it says, ``Clinton Job
Approval.'' It gives Time, Yankelovich, NBC, Gallup, USA Today,
Singlinger. These are all about a week to 2 weeks old. They are all
dropping.
Let us just take a look at the headlines in the news magazines. I
misplaced U.S. News & World Report, but Mort Zuckerman's publication is
just as tough as this newsletter. Here is Time Magazine: ``It is a
jungle out there. The administration is in retreat, embarrassed by new
disclosures, unable to head off congressional probes.'' Remember, this
went to bed 4 days ago.
Here is the Newsweek headline, ``Clinton's Bleak House. Bill Clinton
Looking to Combat His Whitewater Blues.'' The President made a flurry
of spirited public appearances last week, including pounding on a
podium in the immature, stridently saying, ``No'' nine times. More
about that in a second.
``Hillary Rodham Clinton, the First Lady Found Her Own Medicine in a
Trip to Denver To Sell the White House Health Care Plan.'' Still
stalling, or as one columnist observed, a modified hangout, Watergate
term.
``Stunned by More Bad News, the President Tries to Change the
Subject.''
Tonight on all three networks, particularly on CBS, they devoted
about 10 minutes on the CBS show to all of the various Whitewater
stories breaking today. On ABC, they described the vote of this House
today to hold hearings as the Democrats conceded to, and then the
reporter took a deliberate, dramatic pause and said, ``To do the best
we could, because we do not have specific dates yet or anything really
substantial on when we are going to have the hearings.''
The Los Angeles Times, which, remember, has 4 of the Arkansas 10
troopers that were talking, 4 on tape recording, here is the L.A. Times
of yesterday, a story correctly predicting what would happen today in
Little Rock. ``Ex-municipal judge accused of fraud tries to implicate
Clinton. David Hale's trial begins next week in a case related to
Whitewater.''
Of course, he plea bargained today. Interesting that the U.S.
attorney down there in Little Rock, Paula Casey, could have had him
plea bargain months ago. This all would be much further advanced. Maybe
some of it is resolved to the Clintons' satisfaction, if she had not
stonewalled former Judge David Hale's offer to plea bargain and tell
all and then, after she had stopped him and demanded that he go to
trial, then she recused herself as having a biased background on the
whole Whitewater mess.
Here is today's L.A. Times, ``Clinton Treasury Aide Given Early
Briefing on Failed Arkansas Thrift. Political appointee Roger Altman
was told that the Madison Guaranty S&L Case would go to the Justice
Department. He is also a regulator, raising a possible conflict.''
Beneath that another story, ``Republicans had planned to raise the
Whitewater issue at hearings on Thursday.'' Chairman Gonzalez, who has
called for the impeachment of a sitting President 3 times in the 12
Reagan and Bush years, my friend Henry Gonzalez, instead calls for a
select panel to probe the controversial matter.
We do not know if that 408 to 15 vote today is going to grow into a
select panel, but if it does, it will be more of a jungle out there for
the White House. As a matter of fact, when I pick up the papers these
days, an old Beatles tune always rings in my head: ``I Saw The News
Today, Oh Boy.''
Now, here is the Wall Street Journal, yesterday, ``Rose Law Firm Will
File Ethics Complaint in Arkansas About Hubbell's Expenses.'' That is
Webster Hubbell, best golf buddy of Bill Clinton.
The Rose law firm has decided to file a complaint with the Arkansas
ethics authorities about undocumented expenses incurred by former
Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell. How can they blame that on
the Republicans?
Of course, they cannot. It is impossible. As I said in my special
orders last week, walk out the hall here a few steps to the Statutory
Hall, which was the House Chamber for 50 years from 1807 to 1857, and
statue number 7 around to your left, in between Jefferson Davis, the
Senator from Mississippi who became the President of the 10 breakaway
Confederate States, and on the other side is Robert Fulton of steamboat
invention fame, and there is one of the two statues from Arkansas that
every State is allowed to put in this incredible building, the world's
greatest governmental building ever. There is the distinguished face
and form of Uriah Rose, the founder of the Rose law firm, an appointee
to the Geneva Convention at the turn of the century, around 1908. By
1908, President Teddy Roosevelt, was the first President of the
American Bar Association.
And that Rose firm, was the first firm west of the Mississippi, when
Arkansas was just a frontier State. It is really tragic what has
happened to the 60 partners down there, now that they are going to find
themselves possibly, as some columnists suggest, in a state of
bankruptcy within months.
{time} 2100
What a tragedy, that the four partners coming to Washington, what is
now being called the gang of four: Hillary Rodham, Webster Hubble,
Vince Foster, dead since July 20, and now William Kennedy, William
Kennedy III, no relation to the Massachusetts Kennedy family. Here is
the Wall Street Journal article from today.
``Kennedy, Clinton's ethics gatekeeper, hasn't paid taxes on nanny's
wages.''
Before White House Associate Counsel William Kennedy III, became a
Clinton gatekeeper on ethical issues, he worked for Nussbaum, who has
resigned under a cloud, who had on his desk a parody of James Carville,
Clinton's campaign manager's theme sign about staying on message, ``It
is the economy, stupid,'' and Nussbaum had on his desk, ``It is the
ethics, stupid.'' That sign must have fallen on its face when they were
all conducting these midnight raids into Vince Foster's office.
It says, ``Kennedy became a Clinton gatekeeper on ethics, yet he had
a hidden problem of his own, unpaid taxes owed on a nanny's wages, but
he disclosed it to only one person in the Clinton camp,'' surprise,
surprise, ``Vincent Foster, the Deputy White House Counsel who died
July 20th.''
Notice, very few of the papers say ``committed suicide.'' They say
``alleged suicide,'' or ``who died.'' I may be naive, but I am still
clinging to the theory of suicide, because anything else is so
Shakespearian. I will be on this floor if there is ever a murder or
even an indication of the body being moved. I will be on this floor
calling for the resignation, merciful resignation, of the Clinton team
from the White House, that is for sure.
Here is the headline of the distinguished Washington Times:
``Gonzalez Gives In, Calls For Hearings. Hale Might Hold Pieces To The
Whitewater Puzzle. Grand Jury Likely To Hear of Clinton's Deals.''
It is interesting that Hale might be the John Dean of this breaking
scandal, the first one who comes forward and tells all to save himself.
Dean went to jail. It looks like Hale if going to jail for 10 years,
maybe with good behavior he will get 5, but this thing grows
exponentially.
Here is a column I meant to put in the Record from last week when I
spoke on St. Patrick's Day and the following day, ``In Defense Of
Arkansas.'' It says,
It is time to come to the defense of Arkansas, recently
maligned with an image of a close-knit political circle of
mutual back scratching. In this department, Little Rock as
nothing on Washington, DC. With Webb Hubble leaving the
Justice Department, Jamie Gorelick is about to arrive. Ms.
Gorelick's nomination, which went before the Senate last
week, was fascinating because of all the people she has
defended: Clark Clifford and Robert Altman,
not Roger, no relation, I believe; I had better check that out,
on the First American Bank, where they worked when it was
secretly owned by the Bank of Credit and Commerce
International, or BCCI, one of the largest banking scandals
in this country.
Guess what? I found out who writes these fascinating articles in the
Wall Street Journal. It is Robert Bartley. He was unflappable on Meet
the Press Sunday, before the guns of David Broder and company.
He has said to folks that since Michael Kingsley and others accused
him on Nightline, excuse me, on Crossfire, and in print in the New
Republic, that he was one of the proximate causes of a suicide, namely,
Vince Foster, that he said, ``What do these people expect me to do, dry
up and blow away, or to defend my honor?''
Here is an article that I think is going to be probably the most
quoted over the next months, from what I have always, goodnaturedly,
called a schizophrenic magazine, because most of the reporters are
liberal, like Michael Kingsley, and yet Fred Barnes is one of its
senior editors, and that is the New Republic.
Wait until I read what the New Republic says about the scandals
interlocking in Arkansas, by L.J. Davis.
Here, it is so powerful. It is quoted in a long editorial, the
longest I have seen yet in any paper in the Wall Street Journal,
obviously written by Robert Bartley. and I will cut to the chase here
and read the part that fascinated me, because I had said the same thing
on the House floor over 1 year and 7 months ago.
``Arkansas,'' Mr. Davis, L.J. Davis, writes in the New Republic, a
liberal, moderate magazine, ``there is a close resemblance to a Third
World country, with a ruling oligarchy, a small and relatively
powerless middle class, a disenfranchised, leaderless populace.''
The Wall Street Journal says, ``This kind of civic culture we see in
many actual Third World countries.'' I have witnessed it all through
the torments of Central and South America, over many trips down there,
when I was on the Committee on Foreign Affairs a decade ago.
``We see this kind as likely to produce a spoils-to-the-victor,
above-the-law approach to government; that is to say, the kind of
careless arrogance we have seen in the handling of Whitewater, in the
White House passes, in Webb Hubble's law firm billings, in Travelgate,
in intervention into an ongoing corruption trial, in the handling of
Vince Foster's death, and in the handling of various individuals,
including Zoe Baird, Kimba Wood, Lannie Gunier, and Chris Emory, a
White House usher, dismissed over phone conversations with Barbara Bush
over how to set up her computer,'' home laptop computer, with no
warning, and less than a week's notice; Chris Emory, long-time White
House usher, turned into the street.
``Whitewater is not merely about a land deal,'' the Wall Street
Journal continues, ``it is about all of these things, and about the
place they are bidding,'' The Clintons, ``to assume in Washington,''
which God knows, is guilty of enough sins of its own, ``and above all,
it is about hypocrisy.''
``Say that one after another the explanations are innocent. Hilary
was lucky in commodities and unlucky in land speculation,'' wishing
they had lost money. ``Jim Blair and Patsy Thomason are just friends.''
She was on the Hill today. More about that later.
``James and Susan MacDougal and David Hale and Dan Lassiter are just
former friends. Lay aside all suspicions and accept every cover story.
We are now supposed to believe that Bill Clinton was elected President
to reform the sins of the high-flying 1980's? Yes, the key word there
is ``hypocrisy.''
Madam Speaker, here is something that my friend, Senator Don Nickles,
sent over. He is chairman of the Senate Republican Policy Committee, as
I have been chairman for 2 years over here a few years ago of the
Republican Study Committee. He sent over documentation that I would
like to include in the Record at this point, about all of the 25
separate allegations of ethical or legal wrongdoing that were turned
into hearings and/or investigations during the Reagan and Bush
administration.
``Despite the presence of at least five separate instances or
allegations of wrong during the Clinton administration,'' and Senator
Nickles lists them, ``Congress has yet to conduct a single hearing or
the slightest investigation. On three occasions during the Reagan
administration congressional committees conducted investigations or
hearings concurrent with investigations by an independent counsel. Four
of 19 congressional hearings or investigations conducted during the
Reagan administration were led by the then-Republican controlled
committees of the United States Senate,'' which was from 1981 through
1986 under Republican control.
``A recent opinion poll revealed that 60 percent of those surveyed
believe Whitewater requires a full-scale Federal investigation. Here
are the areas where Republicans in the Senate feel there should be or
should have been investigations:
``Scandal one, Travelgate.''
I have here an article, a good column by Mark R. Levin that says,
``Whatever happened to Travelgate? Why did that disappear?'' This is
last week. He opens up with a memorandum from William J. Clinton to
``All the Heads of Departments and Agencies,'' just a few months ago,
October 4, 1993: ``The Freedom of Information Act has been one of the
primary means by which members of the public inform themselves about
their government. Federal departments and agencies should handle
requests for information in a customer-friendly manner. The use of the
act by ordinary citizens is not complicated, nor should it be. The
existence of unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles has no place in its
implementation.''
{time} 2110
I call upon all Federal departments and agencies to renew their
commitment to the Freedom of Information Act, to the underlying
principles of government openness and to its sound administration.
Again, rhetoric, and in fact the truth is exactly the opposite. At
that very moment the White House was stiffing The Wall Street Journal
on the autopsy reports that are still locked up and could technically
be locked up for 2 more years, right through this election coming up in
November. They are still stiffing The Wall Street Journal, which has to
sue Dow-Jones, the owners of the The Wall Street Journal in a case
called Dow-Jones versus The Department of Justice, still suing for the
police investigative reports on Vince Foster's death which has caused a
fascinating duel between two big papers in New York, both with about a
million circulation, the Daily News versus the New York Post.
I received today, at my request from one crusading young reporter,
Chris Ruddy, all of his stories, 12 of them over the last month that
had been in the New York Post, countering him with a selectively leaked
criminal investigation by the U.S. Park Police, whom I have defended
twice on this House floor lately, a little bit in the blind, but they
are the Nation's oldest uniformed police force founded in 1797, George
Washington's third year, George Washington, the father of all character
issues.
The reporter that wrote the counter story to Chris Ruddy's
fascinating series tin his counterpiece that said, ``Vince Foster,''
front-page story, ``case closed,'' said that the investigating officer
said people should have been arrested, including the recently resigned
Bernard Nussbaum for obstruction of justice. And in his story, the
Daily News story, one of the investigators, a senior officer or a
captain, I believe, of the Park Police, when asked by Nussbaum, ``Can't
you run just a normal investigation here,'' said, the captain of the
police said, ``Normal investigation? Is if this were a normal
investigation, all of Mr. Vince Foster's files would be in the back
seat of my car on the way to the police station.''
I watched Crossfire tonight and I saw my colleagues on the Republican
side from the Banking Committee, Toby Roth, use a line that I think he
would admit I mentioned to him earlier tonight. Toby had just witnessed
these two tapes playing on a VCR here in the Capitol. And I said,
``Toby, this Whitewater is soaking, migrating like water into the
popular culture. These two tapes contain the opening of Saturday Night
Live two nights ago last Saturday and nine nights ago when Nancy
Kerrigan was the host, drawing an audience of millions. The night Nancy
was the host they opened up with a mock press conference where Bill
Clinton says that his wife had been arrested on the grounds she was the
sole person guilty of everything, charged there with a number of
heinous crimes up to and including--you just have to see the show to
believe the list of crimes. Very little was left out. And two Democrats
came into our cloakroom to see that, Chairman George Miller, head of
the Democratic Policy Committee, and their caucus or conference
chairman, Steny Hoyer of Maryland, and they were trying to laugh. But I
could see the pain in their face, and I recognize that pain. It was the
pain in my own face when Richard Nixon was going down in flames in
Watergate.
The opening of Saturday Night Live two nights ago was something that
must have taken that young cast of players an entire week to rehearse,
and the makeup must have taken them all day long Saturday. They made
themselves up as about 20 of the current rock stars from Cher to KD
Lang to you name it, Elton John, and all of them were singing the story
of Whitewater. And it was amazing because some of the rock stars are
unintelligible to the generational era say of anybody over 30, maybe
over 25, and they had a crawl at the bottom of the TV screen, a
videograph giving you all the lyrics. And the lyrics tracked the entire
Whitewater story going back several years, and except for some gaps,
all of the facts were accurate.
Madam Speaker, this is soaking into the popular culture.
Here is an editorial from today's Washington Times. It is entitled
roughly, ``Hillary Rodham Boesky,'' Boesky the great speculator from
Wall Street that brought such great disgrace temporarily upon our
financial institutions up on the island of my birth in Manhattan where
down at the tip there in Wall Street.
Here is Hillary Rodham Clinton, May 1, 1993, barely their third month
into office or just into the fourth month. She indicates at the
University of Michigan graduation ceremonies the following:
``Throughout the 1980's we heard too much individual gain, about the
ethos of selfishness and greed. We did not hear enough about what it
meant to be a member of a community, to define the common good, to
repair the social contract.'' That is when she was having a lot of
meetings with this fellow from Tecun, the radical Marxist, leftist
intellectual magazine, and she was working out with this gentleman, I
think his name is Levin, the politics of meaning. Actually, it was a
very spooky period.
Here is the opening and closing paragraph of this editorial: ``It's
not every day that a rookie investor makes a quick $100,000 trading in
the volatile commodities markets. Indeed, an estimated 75 percent of
commodities traders, experienced and inexperienced alike, lose money on
such deals.'' So you can imagine how interesting it was to learn from
the New York Times last week that before the decade of greed was even a
blip on somebody's word processor, Mrs. Clinton had already cleaned up
and gone home.
Actually in those days she did not even take her husband's name,
although they were married. She was Ms. Rodham.
By the way, if you want a picture of Ms. Rodham in those days, and
you have seen it many times, look at the pictures of his swearing in as
Governor in 1978 and you see a Ms. Rodham looking for all the world
like a young hippie college girl, looking much younger than her years,
huge glasses, none of the chic clothing that we see now. This is the
young person, that picture of Hillary Rodham who did not take her
husband's name until after he had served 2 years, and he was defeated
in Reagan's glory year, 1980, and they were in the process of making a
comeback, and that is when she did become Mrs. Clinton. Picture that
young collegiate looking young woman making $100,000 in the violatile
commodities market.
It says, ``According to the Times, back in 1978 Mrs. Clinton
invested''--surprise. She won't say how much--``in so-called cattle
futures, with which a buyer agrees to purchase so much of a commodity
at such-and-such a price in the future. The idea is not necessarily to
own the commodity but to sell those futures if its market price goes up
and make a profit.''
Mrs. Clinton was, in short, a speculator or a quick buck artist, as
the media would come to refer to such traders during the 1980's.
To cut to the chase, ``To justify it all by saying that, well,
Arkansas's ethical standards can't be expected to satisfy those of
Washington--home of assorted House post office, bank and other
scandals--only suggests how desperate the situation must really be
there. Nor can the whole thing be dismissed as friends helping friends.
Try substituting, say, Nancy Reagan for Hillary Rodham Clinton and
imagine the reception such explanations would get in Congress and the
media. That's the standard the Clintons must meet too.''
Now in this article, and please do not write to me, write to your
local Congressman, or get a subscription to the New Republic, this
article by L.J. Davis that was quoted in yesterday's Wall Street
Journal is entitled, ``The Name of Rose,'' and the subtitle is, ``An
Arkansas Thriller.'' There is mentioned in this story something that my
wife, Sally, has been on my case for about 3 months on. As I said last
week, I have a tendency to underline in red. It comes from my Loyola
University in Los Angeles where I was taught that underlining slows you
down, makes you observe something. However, if an article is really
powerful I end up redlining everything. So I am going through this
story early on Whitewater about 3 months ago, and I underlined a
significant line, and it struck me, but it did not sink in the way it
did when my wife read it. She stopped me as I was reading and said,
``Why do you underline this line and not tell me about it?'' And the
line said that Dan Lasater, and that was one of my key candidates to
play John Dean in this unfolding schedule to tell all, she said, ``Why
do you read to me Dan Lasater paid off Roger Clinton's drug debts?'' I
said, ``What do you mean?'' And she said, ``Well, whom do you pay off
drug debts to? Was this a court case, was this an FBI case?'' And I
said, no. You have to pay drug debts to mobsters, to thugs.
We all hope that the Costra Nostra from Sicily, where they are
murdering Catholic priests this week, does not have its tentacles in
Little Rock.
{time} 2120
But certainly all drug-running is organized in this country. There is
an airport I am trying to find out about on the western border of
Arkansas called Mena, which was infamous for gun-running and drug-
running all during the last two decades, but here in Davis' article
called ``The Name of Rose'' in the April 4 issue of the New Republic it
finally says it more succinctly, ``Dan Lassiter was not the largest
cocaine user in the State of Arkansas.'' This is another personal
friend of the Clintons who got at the racetrack a box for the late
Virginia Kelley, the mother of Bill Clinton. That is how Clinton got to
meet Dan Lassiter was through Virginia Kelley. They became friends at
the racetrack. He raised racehorses in Florida.
Roger Clinton went on to work for him. Lassiter was not the largest
cocaine user in the State of Arkansas, but he was certainly the most
conspicuous one. A prosperous Little Rock bond dealer, he was an
acquaintance of the Clinton family, he was a contributor, a big one, as
a matter of fact, to the Governor's political fortunes.
Lassiter distinguished himself in other ways also. He served ashtrays
full of cocaine at parties in his Arkansas mansion, stocked cocaine on
his corporate jet, a plane used by the Clintons on more than one
occasion. You have got to assume that the ashtrays of cocaine were
gone, of course, because you have to give them some benefits of the
doubt here.
Later he told the FBI that he distributed cocaine on more than, not
50 occasions, not 100, not 150, but 180 occasions. ``I shared my
success in that manner,'' he explained.
He was also a patron, and I bet I read this in one of the Nation's
great papers in my county of Orange, the second or third alternately
with San Diego, largest county in California, the paper that dominates
my area the Pulitzer Prize-winning Orange County Register; I expect to
see this in that paper. He, Lassiter, was also a patron of Governor
Clinton's cocaine-using half-brother Roger. The other half-brother out
in California has yet to make it to the White House, folks, by the way.
He is not considered the right social class for the Clintons.
But the half-brother Roger, was employed at his thoroughbred racing
stables in Florida and he claims he gave Roger Clinton $8,000 to pay
off Roger's debts to drug suppliers. Finally, there it is in print. So
you do not have to assume that it went to court costs.
By 1985, it was also known that Lassiter was the subject of a police
investigation that even the most uneducated guess would suggest could
end in only one year, but that year Governor Clinton deemed Lassiter
worthy of handling a $30.2 million bond issue, and that is what we
spent on that cockamamie October Surprise investigation, $30 million,
to modernize the State police radio system. They must have the greatest
police radios. This is a State with only four Congressmen, folks, and
in California we have 52. Thirty million for radios for the police.
Despite the fact that the expenditure would normally be made by an
appropriation from the treasury, it went through Lassiter with a huge
fee. Lassiter was also about to be busted. Nonetheless, Clinton
vigorously lobbied the legislature.
He used to do that sitting with a desk and a chair right outside the
door. He used to come on the floor, and the legislators there passed a
law banning their own Governor. This is a 12-year Governor over a 14-
year span, and he would sit outside the door and grab these guys and
then he would hold the door open and watch them through a crack in the
door as they would vote. It is all on film. Look at these documentaries
that James Carville put together. He thought it was a compliment.
Clinton vigorously lobbied the legislature, ignored the wishes of the
Stevens family, and won the day giving Lassiter and company a handsome,
brace yourself, folks, $750,000 underwriting fee for those police
radios, and all of this is according to the Los Angeles Times.
You see, all of these great outlets, TV, the Times, the Post, New
York Times, Wall Street Journal, they are all feeding one another now.
In 1986, Lassiter was sentenced to 2\1/2\ years in prison, with Roger
Clinton testifying against him at the Lassiter trial, and that is why
Roger, although he had already been to jail for cocaine, was named an
unindicted cocon- spirator. There is a little Watergate expression for
you.
In 1986, I told you, he goes to prison for 2\1/2\ years. In 1990, he
received a State pardon from Governor Clinton. The arithmetic there
does not work out to him spending 4 years in jail, because there was an
appeal period. I think I read, yes, I just read it, 2\1/2\ years in
prison, so after the appeal he goes into prison sometime in early 1987,
and Clinton pardons him after 2\1/2\ years in 1990 when Clinton was
running for Governor promising to serve out all 4 years and swearing he
will not run for President.
Now, listen to this next paragraph, because it is going to mention
Patsy Thomason, one of those who stripped Vince Foster's office, who
was in the building today downstairs in one of the Appropriations rooms
saying she just wished so badly that she could comment on what took
place in Vince Foster's office, but she will have to accede to the
wishes of the special counsel, Bob Fiske, which could take 2 years
before it reaches the public.
For whatever it is worth, one of the few people to have access to the
office of Vince Foster during the 3 days it was unsealed following his
suicide was White House official Patsy Thomason, who managed Dan
Lassiter's business affairs while he spent that 2\1/2\ years in jail.
But in the Clinton system, perfected in Little Rock and now being
practiced in Washington, none of these things should be considered a
mistake or an aberration.
Folks, when Clinton banged on the podium and said, ``no'' nine times,
I thought to myself, ``Why did we say no to him, and what were some of
the things we said no to?'' Several popped in to my mind right away. I
called my staff and said, ``Let us come up with nine.'' Everybody had a
different list of nine.
I just picked out my favorites to match his ``no'' to the ninth
power. Here is why we said ``no'' to the ninth power, and I have got a
list of about 30.
One. The Clinton $19 billion stimulus plan that was just more phony
spending around here and would have been another kick in the face to
that slow recovery out of the recession that really started in March of
1991 when Bush was spending Marines into the hills of the Kurdish
country in north Iraq and his ratings were going through 70 percent,
that is when we were officially out of the recession, but you would
never have known that to watch the three networks and CNN; hence,
President Bush was fired.
The Clinton $17 billion stimulus plan, no, Mr. Clinton.
The Btu tax, no, Mr. Clinton.
Putting U.S. Troops under United Nations command, and that is worth
about nine noes in a row right there.
No pay raise for military servicemen and women. It was my bill that
was turned into law to respond with part of restoring that pay raise,
2.1 percent, pretty humble, and it still keeps the military behind
their job equivalency in the civilian sector. No to you stopping that
pay raise. We also won that one.
Obviously, thinking about the military, homosexuals in the military
comes right to mind. If you were going to force homosexuals into the
military, and we had hearings both here and in the Senate and said it
was a morale buster, then that was a no to you that was supported
overwhelmingly by the mothers and fathers across this country,
overwhelmingly by the enlisted men, even by a slight percentage more so
by the NCO's, and equally with the officer corps across this country in
all services, universal, No to the 100th power.
No. 6. Federally funded abortion: a big surprise on this House floor,
retaining the Hyde amendment for Health and Human Services. Everybody
thought it was a given, given the Year of the Woman and so many women
coming to this House with abortion as the No. 1, 2, and 3 items on
their agenda. No to you trying to dump the Hyde amendment, Mr. Clinton.
No. 7. No to Mort Halperin, but you brought him back and put him into
the National Security Council against the will of the U.S. Senate.
No to Lani Guinier, although my heart goes out to her. This is a hell
of a way, a heck of a way, to treat a friend.
8. Allowing Janet Reno to investigate Whitewater. No; no; no, Mr.
President.
And ninth, but last, and certainly most important to this series of 9
yesses to why we said no, and it is most important to the
entrepreneurial class in this country that creates jobs: No to your
largest tax increase ever which did not pass the Senate until President
of the Senate, Vice President Al Gore, came in and broke a 50-50 tie,
and in this House a lot of news organizations said it was a 2-point
margin here. No, it was not.
{time} 2130
It was 216 to 214, I believe. Just 1 vote from the other side of the
aisle--the lady from Pennsylvania--who the President has been trying to
raise funds for to make it up to her, would have made the difference.
If she loses, I am sure she will end up an ambassador. She will easily
qualify. She is a nice lady. She definitely wanted to vote against this
largest tax increase in history. She was really hammered. She came in
late from dinner through the doors, they were holding that late vote up
in May, people were returning from dinners. This Pennsylvania
congresswoman got hammered, and she was brought in to change her vote.
If she had not, it would have been 215-215, a tie. It would have been a
tie, and the tie fails. So it was 1 vote from Pennsylvania and 1 vote
in the Senate; you cannot get any tighter than that. I have never seen
it in the 17 years I have been around here. I tried to get the Library
of Congress to research it. They said, ``Congressman, we will have to
go back before the Civil War to see if there was ever a vote so close
it was broken by a tie in each house.'' So that is why out there
working the stumps, Mr. Clinton has run into a lot of trouble banging
on the lectern, yelling ``no.''
Now what I would like to do because there is no way I can read the
whole Rose affair--the name of the Rose article from the New Republic--
I would like to start in what time I have left and read as much as I
can of this phenomenal Robert Bartley article. If he did not write it,
he is the supervisor of the editorial page. But I think he wrote this
personally, as he has done most of them. It is titled ``O Tempora. O
Mores.'' Wouldn't the Jesuits be proud of me after 4 years of high
school Latin that I figured this out, ``Oh, the times, the mores.''
Now here is Bill Clinton in his acceptance speech at the Democratic
National Convention quoting only one person, Carol Quigley, the guru
from Georgetown University, in his speech, stealing words out of the
mouth of Jesus Christ at Holy Thursday's last supper when he said, ``I
want a new covenant with the American people.'' Whoa, did that offend
this former altar boy.
Clinton says, ``I was raised to believe the American dream was built
on rewarding hard work, but we have seen the folks in Washington turn
the American ethic on its head. For too long those who play by the
rules and keep the faith have gotten the shaft and those who cut
corners and cut deals have been rewarded.'' I have got to repeat that
last line, ``Those who cut corners, cut deals, have been rewarded.'' It
sounds like Ms. Hillary on May 1 at a college graduation.
Then the Wall Street Journal quotes Cicero, and it says, ``The latest
round of Whitewater news reports shows two things that anyone trying to
comprehend this story has to understand. First, it wasn't only
Whitewater. The Clintons were involved in at least one other fast-buck
deal with other corporate interests heavily dependent upon regulation.
Secondly, it wasn't only Arkansas; the confusing long-ago arcana from
Arkansas's political backwaters are relevant because there are now
signs that the same practices, the same interests, the same mores are
spreading throughout the Washington bureaucracy.''
One point here, going back to my special orders of September: I took
the time to do what nobody in the whole Bush campaign did, and that is
to study what happened in Arkansas. I know Arkansas is a good state. I
have gone through there in Air Force aircraft across counties, I have
driven through the State on highway 40 and talked to the people and
dined in many of their restaurants that are no different than any other
part of the country. It has its beautiful parts up in the northwest; it
has its rough places with all the beat-up cars strewn around. But
Arkansas people are hard-working, good people. It is a good State.
I cringed a little bit when Saturday Night Live was having fun with
it, ``Look out, Mississippi, here we come.'' That was the same Phil
Hartman who is just devastatingly funny on this whole Whitewater thing.
I tried to figure out what Clinton's experience was with the
opposition party. So I asked, ``What was the highwater mark of the
Republicans in the Senate of the State of Arkansas and the House of
Representatives there?'' I was shocked with what I found.
By the way, right now, 1994, it is a highwater mark; four congressmen
come to this Chamber from Arkansas, and for the first time, we have an
even split, two excellent congressmen on that side and two excellent
congressmen on this side. One of them on that side, Ray Thornton, was a
former president of one of the great universities down there after he
was a classmate of mine in '76, the class of '76; Gore, Quayle, Walker,
Gephardt, Dornan and Thornton. That is one of the two Democrats.
On this side, two dynamic freshmen, Jay Dickey and Tim Hutchinson.
Tim's brother is head of the Republican Party in Arkansas.
So we have two for two. That has never happened since the Civil War.
I mean two--yes, two by two out of four. Now, keep in mind that
California has 80 assemblymen and 40 senators. So I called down there
to the Republican Clerk of the house and said, ``How many State
senators do you have in Arkansas?'' 35. Four congressmen to our 52, but
just 5 shy of 40 senators. I said how many are Republicans?'' I think
she said three or four. Three was the highest that Clinton ever had
down there. Now there are five. That is a historical record since the
Civil War.
I said, ``How many in you other house, the House of Representatives
down there?'' She said, ``We have 100.'' That is 20 more than
California.
How many of the 100 are Republicans? Seven, 7 Republicans out of 100,
and 3 out of a senate of 35. That is all Bill, Governor Clinton, had to
deal with in Arkansas. Hence my term in those special orders that he
had a toy that he played with. It was an oligarchy down there.
By the way, the House of Representatives down there now has 10
Republicans. I said five in the senate. So those 15 out of 135 is an
all-time high since the Civil War.
Now listen to this: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, items, and then the deadly quote I
have already read. Hillary Clinton, it turns out, pocketed $100,000
playing commodity futures between October 1978 and October 1979. That
second year, Bill Clinton was the attorney general in the State of
Arkansas. Now, let us see: Born in '46, '56, '76, so he is not in his
early 30's and he is attorney general--excuse me, he is already the
Governor. He got elected in '78 and lost in '80. He was attorney
general in '76, when he was only 30 years old. So he is a 32-year-old
Governor, youngest in the country, and his young wife, Ms. Rodham, not
Mrs. Clinton, knocks off a cool $100,000 playing the commodity futures
with James B. Blair, the powerhouse attorney for the food giant Tyson's
Foods, Inc., looking over her shoulder, guiding her. In the New York
Times team report written by Jeff Gerth, Mr. Blair says Mrs. Clinton
decided the size of the trade, and then ``we at Tyson's discussed
whether she ought to be long or short.'' Mrs. Clinton's attorney said
it was her own money at risk. And some of her Administration
defenders--she would be 31 year old--said that in playing commodities
she studied up on financial data--she is smart--including reading the
Wall Street Journal. Thanks for the endorsement, the Journal says, but
``we wouldn't advise it to other commodities amateurs.'' Financial
cynics would like to know more about the trades and the market prices
at the time, more about the accounts in 1978 and '79, both hers and Mr.
Blair's of Tyson's. Their principal broker went bankrupt. But that
bankrupt broker says Mr. Blair left happy. And I guess so did Hillary
Clinton.
By the way, when Bill Clinton was asked about this this week, by
Knight-Ridder reporters in the White House a few days ago, do you know
what he did? He turned red in the face, volcanically red--that is all
right, he has a fair skin complexion, as I do, easy to turn red--but
then he got up, walked past his guests in the Oval Office, the Knight-
Ridder group of reporters, and stood behind the desk, the presidential
desk, with his back turned to them until they were escorted from the
room because they dared to ask him to release his 1040 IRS forms for
'78 and '79.
{time} 2140
Those are blank years. The Clintons have never released them. That is
how sensitive he is.
By the way, before he passed them and refused to shake hands it is
said he railed to the press again. This is becoming quite common for
him to talk about the left-leaning press that has done nothing for him.
Wow. Except elect him President, at least partially.
The years for which the Clinton tax returns have never been
released--here is the whole story.
Correspondents from Knight-Ridder newspapers asked the President
about this in his March 12 interview 10 days ago, provoking a tirade
against the press. Mr. Clinton's face reddened in anger, and then he
abruptly ended the interview, strode past his visitors without shaking
hands, and stood behind his Oval Office desk until they were escorted
out. I guess we can expect to see that on Saturday Night Live next
Saturday unless they are in reruns.
Item No. 2:
Tyson also figures in a new SEC investigation, reported
Friday by the Journal's Bruce Ingersoll and Michael K.
Frisby. The agency is looking into suspicious 1992 trading in
the stock of Arctic Alaska Fisheries Crop. Just before the
announcement that it was being acquired by Tyson. Several
Arkansas investors are under study, including Phoenix Group
Inc.; the president of Phoenix was Patsy Thomasson,
right here in the this capital today, ``now director of the White House
Office of Administration, former associate of drug convict Dan
Lasater,'' and remember she took care of all of his books for 2\1/2\
years.
More tomorrow night.
[From the Wall Street Journal, Jan. 26, 1992]
Review & Outlook--Oh the Times! Oh the Mores! O Tempora! O Mores!
I was raised to believe the American dream was built on
rewarding hard work. But we have seen the folks in Washington
turn the American ethic on its head. For too long, those who
play by the rules and keep the faith have gotten the shaft.
And those who cut corners and cut deals have been rewarded.--
Bill Clinton, in his acceptance speech at the Democratic
National Convention, August 16, 1992.
Oh the times! The mores!--Cicero, First Century B.C.
The latest round of Whitewater news reports shows two
things that anyone trying to comprehend this story has to
understand. First, it wasn't only Whitewater; the Clintons
were involved in at least one other fast-buck deal with other
corporate interests heavily dependent on regulation. Second,
it wasn't only Arkansas. The confusing, long-ago arcana from
Arkansas's political backwaters are relevant because there
are now signs that the same practices and same interests--the
same mores--are spreading through the Washington bureaucracy.
Hillary Clinton, it turns out, pocketed $100,000 playing
commodity futures between October 1978 and October 1979, with
James B. Blair, the powerhouse attorney for food giant Tyson
Foods Inc., looking over her shoulder. In a New York Times
team report written by Jeff Gerth, Mr. Blair said Mrs.
Clinton decided the size of the trade and ``We discussed
whether she ought to be long or short.''
Mrs. Clinton's attorney says it was her own money at risk,
and some of her administration defenders said that in playing
commodities she studied up on financial data, including
reading The Wall Street Journal. Thanks for the endorsement,
but we wouldn't advise it to other commodities amateurs.
Financial cynics would like to know more about the trades,
and the market prices at the time, and about the accounts,
both hers and Mr. Blair's. Their principal broker went
bankrupt, but says that Mr. Blair ``left happy.''
Mrs. Clinton's commodity streak started just before Bill
Clinton's election as Governor of Arkansas, and just as he
completed his term as attorney general. The N.Y. Times story
recounts a series of regulatory decisions that favored the
Tyson operations, as well as the appointment of Tyson
executives to state posts, plus some allegations of Tyson
benefits under the Clinton Presidency. A Tyson spokesman says
it only took advantage of normal state industrial development
programs, and ``There is absolutely no evidence that the Jim
Blair's relationship with Bill or Hillary Clinton had any
impact on our treatment.''
Mr. Blair and his wife, our Mr. Ingersoll reported last
week, slept at the White House the night of the Clinton
inaugural. He also reported on a controversy about sanitary
requirements. The Department of Agriculture has imposed on
meatpackers a ``zero total.''
We would also be curious about whatever other money Mrs.
Clinton made in 1978 and 1979, years for which the Clinton
tax returns have never been released. Correspondents for the
Knight-Ridder newspapers asked the president about this in a
March 12 interview, and provoked a tirade against the press.
``Mr. Clinton's face reddened in anger,'' they reported, and
he ``abruptly ended the interview, strode past his visitors
without shaking hands and stood behind his Oval Office desk
until they were escorted out.''
Tyson also figures in a new SEC investigation, reported
Friday by the Journal's Bruce Ingersoll and Michael K.
Frisby. The agency is looking into suspicious 1992 trading in
the stock of Arctic Alaska Fisheries Corp. just before the
announcement that it was being acquired by Tyson. Several
Arkansas investors are under study, including Phoenix Group
Inc.; the president of Phoenix was Patsy Thomasson, new
director of the White House Office of Administration, former
associate of drug convict Dan Laster in a company that
preceded Phoenix, visitor to Vincent Foster's office the
night of his death and point-person in the controversy over
White House passes and security clearances. She issued a
statement saying she had nothing to do with trades in Arctic.
A similar denial was issued by Associate White House Counsel
William Kennedy III, who has a relative under investigation
in the Arctic deal.
Since we've been known to express doubts on the merits of
environmental and sanitary regulations, let us detail another
matter only briefly touched on in N.Y. Times stories. The
Pacific Fishery Management Council, a federal commission,
issued an order last spring divvying up the $100-million-a-
year whiting catch off Oregon, Washington and California. The
big argument is always over how much can be taken by large
factory-trawler operations and how much by mom-and-pop shore-
based fishermen.
The spring ruling gave 63% of the catch to the on-shore
operations. The council's decisions must be ratified by the
Commerce Department but normally that's just a formality. On
those rare occasions when Commerce has disagreed with a local
decision, it has sent the issue back for reconsideration by
the fishing council. Not this time. When the Federal Register
appeared on April 15, 1993, fishermen were shocked to
discover that factory trawlers had been allocated 70% of the
whiting catch.
The largest operator of factory trawlers is Arctic Alaska
Fisheries Corp., owned by Tyson (see above).
There have been the usual denials. Douglas Hall, head of
the National Marine Fisheries Service, says the trawler take
was in line with historical norms, and says that the decision
was made in his office, not by Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
Rep. Elizabeth Furse, an Oregon Democrat, called for hearings
on the issue, but was rebuffed by the Congressional
leadership. * * *
Tyson's legal work has long been handled, predictably, by
the Rose Law Firm, which brings us to the final citation in
the new crop, the current New Republic cover, ``The Poisoned
Rose.'' L.J. Davis's superlative account is must reading,
above all for those who are confused by all the excitement
about a two-bit land deal in the Ozarks. What Mr. Davis
understands is that the Rose Law Firm, for all of its color,
is fundamentally an appendage of the Stephens interests,
which use Arkansas as home base for a world-spanning
financial empire. It financed Tyson and other successful
Arkansas businesses, in addition to handing ``the brokerage''
when front men for BCCI bought into First American Bank and
installed Clark Clifford to run it.
Arkansas, Mr. Davis writes, ``bears a close resemblance to
a Third World country, with a ruling oligarchy, a small and
relatively powerless middle class and a disfranchised,
leaderless populace.'' This kind of civic culture, we see in
many actual Third World countries, is likely to produce a
spoils-to-the-victor, above-the-law approach to government.
That is to say, the kind of careless arrogance we have seen
in the handling of Whitewater, in the White House passes, in
Webb Hubbell's law firm billings, in travelgate, in
intervention into an ongoing corruption trial, in the
handling of Mr. Foster's death and in the handling of various
individuals including Zoe Baird, Kimba Wood, Lani Guinier,
Bobby Inman and Chris Emery, a White House usher dismissed
over phone conversations with Barbara Bush with no warning
and less than a week's notice.
Whitewater is not merely about a land deal, it is about all
of these things, and about the place they are bidding to
assume in Washington, which God knows is guilty of enough
sins of its own. Above all it is about hypocrisy. Say that
one after another the explanations are innocent. Hillary was
lucky in commodities and unlucky in land speculation. Jim
Blair and Patsy Thomasson are just friends; James and Susan
McDougal and David Hale and Dan Lasater are just former
friends. Lay aside all suspicions and accept every cover
story. We are now supposed to believe Bill Clinton was
elected president to reform the sins of the high-flying
1980s?
____
Steve Kroft, host:
Are you prepared tonight to say that you've never had an
extramarital affair?
Governor Bill Clinton: I'm not prepared tonight to say that
any married couple should ever discuss that with anyone but
themselves and lawyers like us during divorce court battles.
Kroft: I'm Steve Kroft, and this is a special abbreviated
edition of 60 Minutes. Tonight Democratic presidential
hopeful Governor Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary talk about
their life, their marriage and the allegations that have all
but stalled his presidential campaign.
Steve Kroft, host:
It's been quite a week for Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton.
On Monday his picture was on the cover of Time magazine,
anointed by the press as the front-runner for the Democratic
presidential nomination. Six days later, he's trying to
salvage his campaign. His problem: Long rumored allegations
of marital infidelity finally surfaced in a supermarket
tabloid. And last week they were picked up and reprinted,
unsubstantiated, by the mainstream press. Since then, for
better or for worse, Governor Clinton's private life has
become the overriding issue in the Democratic presidential
campaign. Earlier today, Governor Clinton and his wife,
Hillary, sat down with me to try to put the issue to rest.
Keep in mind, as we said earlier, all of the allegations are
unsubstantiated, all have been denied by everyone involved,
except for the case of Jennifer Flowers. A former television
reporter and cabaret singer, Jennifer Flowers, in a tabloid
interview for which she was paid, says she carried on a long-
term affair with Governor Clinton from the late 1970s to the
end of 1989.
Who is Jennifer Flowers? You know her.
Governor Bill Clinton: Oh, yes.
Kroft: How do you know her? How would you describe your
relationship?
B. Clinton: Very limited, but until this, you know,
friendly, but limited. I have--I met her in the late '70s
when I was attorney general. She was one of a number of young
people who were working for the television stations around
Little Rock. And people in politics and the people in the
media knew each other then, just as they do now. She left our
state, and for years I didn't really hear from her or know
what she was doing. Then she came back--I don't know--some
time a few years ago and went to work again in the state. So
that's how--that's who she is.
Kroft: Was she a friend, an acquaintance? Did your wife
know her?
B. Clinton: Yes.
Hillary Clinton: Oh, sure.
B. Clinton: She was an acquaintance. I would say ``a
friendly acquaintance.''
H. Clinton: ``Mm-hmm.''
B. Clinton: When this story--this rumor story got started
in the middle of 1980 and she was contacted and told about
it, she was so upset, and she called back, she said, `How
could I be listed on this. I haven't seen you for more than
10 minutes in 10 years.' She would call from time to time
when she was upset or thought she was really in--being hurt
by the rumors. And I would call her back--either she would
call the office or I would call her back there at the office
or I would call her back at the house, and Hillary knew when
I was calling her back. I think once I called her when we
were together. And so there's nothing out of the ordinary
there.
Kroft: She's alleging and has described in some detail in
the supermarket tabloid what she calls 1 12-year affair with
you.
B. Clinton: It--that allegation is false.
H. Clinton: When this woman first got caught up in these
charges, I felt as I felt about all of these women, that, you
know, they've just been minding their own business, and they
got hit by a meteor. I mean, it was no fault of their own. We
reached out to them. I met with two of them to reassure them.
They were friends of ours. I felt terrible about what was
happening to them. You know, Bill talked to this woman every
time she called distraught, saying her life was going to be
ruined. And, you know, he'd get off the phone and tell me
that she said sort of whacky things which we thought were
attributable to the fact that she was terrified.
B. Clinton: It was only when money came out, wh--when the
tabloid went down there offering people money to say that
they had been involved with me that she changed her story.
There is a recession on. Times are tough, and--and I think
you can expect more and more of these stories as long as
they're down there handing out money.
Kroft: I'm assuming from your answer that you're
categorically denying that you ever had an affair with
Jennifer Flowers.
B. Clinton: I've said that before and so has she.
Kroft: You've said that your marriage has had problems,
that you've had difficulties. What do you mean by that? What
does that mean? Is that some kind of--help us break the code.
I mean, does that mean . . .
B. Clinton: I don't me . . .
Kroft: . . . you were separated? Does that mean that you
had communication problems? Does that mean you contemplated
divorce? Does it mean adultery?
B. Clinton: I think the American people, at least people
that have been married for a long time, know what it means
and know the whole range of things that it can mean.
Kroft: You've been saying all week that you've got to put
this issue behind you. Are you prepared tonight to say that
you've never had an extramarital affair?
B. Clinton: I'm not prepared tonight to say that any
married couple should ever discuss that with anyone but
themselves. I'm not prepared to say that about anybody. I
think that the issue . . .
Kroft: Governor, that's what--excuse me. That's what you've
been saying, essentially, for the last . . .
B. Clinton: But that's what I believe.
Kroft: . . .couple of months.
B. Clinton: Look Steve, you go back and listen to what I've
said. You know, I have acknowledged wrongdoing, I have
acknowledge causing pain in my marriage. I have said things
to you tonight and to the American people from the beginning
that no American politician ever has. I think most Americans
who are watching this tonight, they'll know what we're
saying, they'll get it, and they'll feel that we have been
more candid. And I think what the press has to decide is: Are
we going to engage in a game of gotcha? You know, I can
remember a time--and it was sad--when a divorced person
couldn't run for president. And that time, thank goodness,
has passed. Nobody's prejudiced against anybody because
they're divorced. Are we going to take the reverse position
now--that if people have problems in their marriage or things
in their past which they don't want to discuss, which are
painful to them, that they can't run?
Kroft: You're trying to put this issue behind you. And the
problem with the answer is it's not a denial. And people are
sitting out there--voters--and they're saying, ``Look, it's
really pretty simple. If he has never had an extramarital
affair, why doesn't he say so?''
B. Clinton: That may be what they're saying. Your know what
I think they're saying? I think they're saying, ``Here's a
guy who's leveling with us.'' You--you may think that--that
we should say more, and you can keep asking the questions.
but I'm telling you I think that we've to--I'll come back to
what I said. I have told the American people more than any
other candidate for president. The re--the result of that has
been everybody going to my state and spending more time
trying to play gotcha.
H. Clinton: There isn't a person watching this who would
feel comfortable sitting on this couch detailing everything
that ever went on in their life or their marriage. And I
think it's real dangerous in this country if we don't have
some zone of privacy for everybody. I mean, I think that is
absolutely critical.
Kroft: I--I--I couldn't agree with you more, and I think--
and I agree with you that everyone wants to put this behind
you. And the reason it hasn't gone away is that your answer
is not a denial, is it?
B. Clinton: But interesting--let's assume. . .
Kroft: It's not a denial.
B. Clinton: Of course, it's not. And let's take it from
your point of view. If--that won't make it go away. You know,
you can cut this round or cut this flat. I mean, if you deny,
then you have a whole other hoard of people going down there
offering more money trying to prove that you lied. And if you
say yes, you have just what I've already said by being open
and telling you that we've had problems. You have, oh, good,
now we can play gotcha and find out who it is. Now no matter
what I say to pretend that the press will then let this die,
we're kidding ourselves. I mean, you know, this has become a
virtual cottage industry. The only way to put it behind us, I
think, is for all of us to agree that this guy has told us
about all we need to know. Anybody's who's listening gets the
drift of it. And let's go on and get back to the real
problems of this country. ``The problems are about what's
going to happen to families in New Hampshire and the rest of
this country in the future, not what happened to mine in the
past.''
Kroft: I don't like some of these questions any better than
you do, but the question of marital infidelity is an issue
with a sizable portion of the electorate. According to the
latest CBS News poll, which was just taken over the weekend,
14 percent of the registered voters in America say they
wouldn't vote for a candidate who's had an affair.
B. Clinton: I know it's an issue. And--and--but what does
that mean? That means 86% percent of the American people
either don't think it's relevant to presidential performance
or look at whether a person looking at all the facts is the
best person to serve.
H. Clinton: We've gone further than anybody we know of, and
that's all we're going to say. And people can ask us 100
different ways in--from 100 different directions, and we're
just going to leave the ultimate decision up to the American
people.
Kroft: I think most Americans would agree that it's
admirable that you had--have stayed together, that you've
worked your problems out, that you seem to have reached some
sort of an understanding and an arrangement.
B. Clinton: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Kroft: But . . .
B. Clinton: Wait a minute. You're looking at two people who
love each other. this is not an arrangement or an
understanding. This is a marriage. That's a very different
thing.
H. Clinton: You know I'm not sitting here some little woman
standing by my man like Tammy Wynette. I'm sitting here
because I love him and I respect him and I honor what he's
been through and what we've been through together. And, you
know, if that's not enough for people, then, heck, don't vote
for him.
Kroft: A good friend of yours, one of your campaign
advisers, told us the other day, ``Bill Clinton has got to
level with the American people tonight, otherwise, his
candidacy is dead.'' You feel like you've leveled with the
American people?
B. Clinton: I have absolutely leveled with the American
people.
H. Clinton: We are going to do the best we can to level
with people and then we're going to let them make up their
minds, because I think if the American people get a chance
and if they're trusted to exercise their vote right because
people talk to them about real issues, this country will be
OK. That's what we're betting on, and we're just going to
roll the dice and see what happens.
Kroft: Your called it a gamble. You came here tonight to
try and put it behind you. You're going to get on the plane
when you walk out of this room and go back to New Hampshire.
Do you think you've succeeded?
B. Clinton: That's up to the American people and, to some
extent, up to the press. This will test the character of the
press. It is not only my character that has been tested.
Kroft: I'm Steve Kroft. We'll be back next Sunday at our
regular time with a complete edition of ``60 Minutes'',
including Ed Bradley with Anita Hill, her first interview
since the Clarence Thomas hearings. Now ``48 Hours.''
____________________