[Senate Hearing 119-442]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 119-442

                HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              JUNE 3, 2026

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                              __________
                              
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-995 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================        
                
                SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut, 
Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                  Ranking Member
Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington
Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont
Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New 
Tommy Tuberville, Alabama                Hampshire
Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
                                     Ruben Gallego, Arizona
                                     Elissa Slotkin, Michigan

                     David Shearman, Staff Director
                Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                              June 3, 2026

                                SENATORS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     1
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from 
  Connecticut....................................................     2
Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............     8
Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    10
Hon. Tim Sheehy, U.S. Senator from Montana.......................    12
Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    14

                                NOMINEES

Gary Shatswell, Nominee to be Secretary of Veteran Affairs for 
  Information and Technology.....................................     3

Michael Tierney, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans 
  Affairs for the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower 
  Protection.....................................................     5

                                APPENDIX
                           Opening Statement

Hon. Richard Blumenthal..........................................    25

                          Nomination Material

GARY SHATSWELL, Nominee

  Prepared Statement.............................................    31

  Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:

    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    34
    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    41

  Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:

    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    46
    Hon. Thom Tillis.............................................    51

  Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    53

  Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................    64

MICHAEL TIERNEY, Nominee

  Prepared Statement.............................................    69

  Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:

    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    72
    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    79

  Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:

    Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    83
    Hon. Thom Tillis.............................................    87
    Hon. Angus S. King, Jr.......................................    90

  Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    92

  Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................   102

 
                               HEARING TO
                      CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 3, 2026

                                       U.S. Senate,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:22 p.m., in 
Room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

    Present: Senators Moran, Tillis, Sheehy, Blumenthal, 
Hassan, and King.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
               CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

    Chairman Moran. The Committee will come to order, and I 
apologize to our two witnesses. I've apologized to my 
colleagues, and I'll apologize to all those who've been sitting 
in the room waiting for this hearing to start. I guess nothing 
is unavoidable, but it's been difficult to keep today's 
schedule on time. And I'll do my best to make it up to my 
colleagues in particular, and the witnesses still need our 
cooperation. So, I'm not too worried about the two of you being 
angry at me.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Blumenthal. Since none of us have ever been late 
before to a Committee meeting, we'll excuse you just this once.
    Chairman Moran. That's so kind of you. Such as proving 
that, we're sort of a bipartisan effort in this Committee. 
Look, we're here to hear the testimony and consider the 
nominations of two individuals. Gary Shatswell to be the 
Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs for Information and 
Technology and Michael Tierney to be the Assistant Secretary of 
Veterans Affairs for Accountability and Whistleblower 
Protection. I appreciate your willingness to serve.
    There are important issues that come with your positions, 
and I look forward to the Committee asking the necessary 
questions to determine the qualifications and capabilities and 
the appropriateness of confirming your nomination. That's 
particularly true when there's the timing of the rollout of new 
electronic health records. It's back on track after a lengthy 
pause. And artificial intelligence is transforming every 
sector. It's critical that the VA to have a strong and 
qualified Chief Information Officer. I look forward to hearing 
from Mr. Shatswell, if he's confirmed, how he would lead that 
modernization effort, safeguard data, and effectively integrate 
automation and AI in the Department to increase access to care, 
benefits to veterans, and their families to rely on.
    Likewise, I look forward to hearing from Mr. Tierney about 
how, if confirmed, he would increase accountability, 
transparency and trust among veterans, caregivers, survivors, 
and the VA staff members, as well as taxpayers and the American 
public. The VA, as we know, supports millions of veterans and 
beneficiaries, employs hundreds of thousands of employees, and 
operates medical facilities and regional offices and cemeteries 
around the globe with a budget that has totaled more than $500 
billion in fiscal year 2027. Accountability is not an option, 
and it's essential. I'm grateful to both of you for being here 
and for your willingness, your eagerness, perhaps, to take on 
the challenges that I just described and all those other 
challenges that we may not even recognize today.
    And with that, I yield to the Ranking Member, Senator 
Blumenthal.

                    HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
         RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT

    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are two 
critical positions. Whistleblowers play a critical role in 
bringing fraud, waste, and abuse to light, and they can 
actually save lives. In the fiscal year 2025, there were more 
than 4,300 complaints, but only 32 disciplinary 
recommendations. The GAO found last year that, VA is unable to 
track corrective actions taken in whistleblower cases, and does 
not have accurate data about settlement agreements. This year's 
budget proposal fails to keep pace with inflation and keeps 
staffing levels stagnant.
    The request doesn't account for additional manpower needed 
for tracking cases, as recommended by the GAO. It certainly 
doesn't account for the 31 percent increase in complaints and 
disclosures during the fiscal year 2025. And the budget request 
wouldn't support the Department's intent to expand the office's 
authority to proactively investigate unreported whistleblower 
retaliation, which would increase the workload immensely. This 
is a recipe for continued failure.
    And if confirmed, Mr. Tierney, you will have to demonstrate 
the backbone, stand up to this Administration and to the 
President of the United States and say, we need to protect 
whistleblowers. We need to do more and invest more, and provide 
the tools and authority that are needed to effectively do this 
job. We owe it to our veterans.
    Likewise, Mr. Shatswell, if you're confirmed, you'll be 
responsible for managing a technology system that have been in 
the Senate for close to 16 years, like Senator Moran, has been 
a classic story of government failure, and it is ongoing. And 
I'm not going to go into all the details. I'm going to ask that 
my full statement be put in the record.
    Chairman Moran. Without objection.

    [The opening statement of Senator Blumenthal appears on 
pages 25-27 of the Appendix.]

    Senator Blumenthal. But plainly, this system has suffered 
from massive cost overruns. It still is failing to work as 
intended 15 or more years ago, and the Congress is going to 
need your commitment to ensure that there are appropriate 
guardrails and transparency in how the VA uses AI and 
automation now, features that couldn't have been envisioned 15 
years ago.
    So, I look forward to hearing more from you about your 
plans for the future. And I hope that they will allay some of 
the concerns that I think we have and should have, about 
whether you will be independent sufficiently to say to the 
Administration, in effect, this ain't working for our veterans, 
because we need that independence. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal, thank you. Mr. 
Shatswell and Mr. Tierney, before being recognized for your 
opening statement, would you please stand and raise your right 
hand? Hands.
    [Both stand with right hand raised.]
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're 
about to give before the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' 
Affairs will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God?
    Mr. Shatswell. I do.
    Mr. Tierney. I do.
    Chairman Moran. If so, please respond affirmatively, and 
you have. The record should note both have done so. Thank you 
very much. Please be seated. And, Mr. Shatswell, you are now 
recognized for your opening statement.

    STATEMENT OF GARY SHATSWELL, NOMINEE TO BE SECRETARY OF 
        VETERANS AFFAIRS FOR INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY

    Mr. Shatswell. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, 
and distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today as the nominee to serve 
as the Assistant Secretary for Information and Technology and 
Chief Information Officer for the Department of Veterans 
Affairs. I am deeply grateful to the President, President 
Donald J. Trump, for this honor and for his confidence in me. 
And I'm thankful to Secretary Douglas A. Collins for his trust.
    I sit before you a man who loves God, my family, and my 
country. So, I begin with God. I am filled with gratitude to my 
Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whose words have guided my life. 
In John 15, he says ``There is no greater love than to lay down 
one's life for a friend.'' Those words describe the ethos of 
every man and woman who has worn this Nation's uniform. Placing 
something larger than themselves above their own comfort, 
safety and, in some cases, their lives. If confirmed, honoring 
their sacrifice and service, will be a guiding light.
    To my family, I want to acknowledge my three amazing 
children who are watching online; Julia, Elizabeth, and 
Garrison. I love you more than words, and I'm so proud of who 
you are and how it shows up in your faith, service, and work. 
My family name, though uncommon, has deep roots. John Shatswell 
built his first home in Ipswich in 1635. Thomas Shatswell was a 
drummer boy for the Patriots in the Revolutionary War. Colonel 
Nathaniel Shatswell fought for the Union in the Civil War. Of 
the eight boys in my father's family, six served, including my 
father. My uncle, Kenny, returned from Vietnam wearing a Purple 
Heart. I have cousins, nieces, and nephews that have served. 
Before my father passed, I took him regularly to the VA in 
Tacoma, Washington and saw firsthand what the VA means to those 
who served and those who love them.
    Finally, to my country, I was raised in an extraordinary 
family that formed my love for America. We traveled extensively 
singing gospel music. When I was 10 years old, we toured 
Europe, including Behind the Iron Curtain. I remember feeling 
the oppression as we crossed those borders. And I remember how 
the next time I recited the Pledge of Allegiance, tears ran 
down my face. American freedom became real to me.
    Since joining the VA as a senior advisor to Secretary 
Collins on December 1 of 2025, I've met with senior leaders in 
the central office, medical centers, clinics, and cemeteries 
around the country. I sat with many veterans and heard their 
stories. That time of listening was invaluable. From my 
industry experience, I began asking: what if? What if we 
connected with service members when they enlisted and stayed 
present through active duty, transition, and the rest of their 
lives? No one left behind.
    What if we eliminated repeatedly asking veterans the same 
questions and the same information? What if, rather than 
digitizing old paper processes, we re-imagined them in 
digitally native ways. It has been a blessing to witness the 
breadth of support this country provides its veterans. But 
frankly, we can and must do better when it comes to information 
technology.
    My conversations with leadership and individual 
contributors have revealed a few common themes. We need a 
culture of transparency and accountability achievable through 
agile program management, which will also accelerate mission 
delivery. We must go faster.
    Regarding artificial intelligence, we need clear, bright-
lined guardrails of security and privacy, enabling a green 
light to drive productivity and human decision-making. We need 
to leverage our enterprise data as a strategic asset, 
strengthening security and unlocking benefits we cannot yet 
fully envision.
    My resume highlights 30 years of executive leadership, 
hyper-growth, turnaround management, yet there are countless 
untold stories. For example, I created and taught the first web 
development course at Microsoft in the mid-90s. I ask hard 
questions and I do hard work. I've had the privilege of meeting 
with several of you, and in those conversations about improving 
service to our veterans that has deepened my commitment. If 
confirmed, I will support the Secretary and this Committee, to 
prioritize, execute, and deliver.
    In loving God, my family, and this country, the threat of 
service is in my DNA. Mr. Chairman and Members of this 
Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 
and to be considered for this position. I look forward to 
answering your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Shatswell appears on pages 
31-33 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Mr. Shatswell, thank you for your 
statement. Now, Mr. Tierney.

STATEMENT OF MICHAEL TIERNEY, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY 
   OF VETERANS AFFAIRS FOR THE OFFICE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND 
                    WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION

    Mr. Tierney. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and 
Members of this Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you today. It is a genuine honor.
    I want to begin by acknowledging my family members who are 
here with me today, my wife of 26 years, Margaret, and two of 
my children. My son Michael, a rising second-class midshipman 
at the United States Naval Academy, and my younger daughter, 
Caroline, a rising freshman at the University of California, 
Berkeley. My older daughter, Madeleine, is preparing for her 
graduation at the University of Chicago, where she is a 
business economics major. Thank you also to President Trump and 
Secretary Collins for their confidence in me.
    There is a quote often attributed to Sir Thomas More, the 
English lawyer and philosopher that has relevance today: ``In 
matters of law, morality aside, one must remember that the law 
itself is the foundation of justice, and all who practice it 
must not evade it.'' In the practice of being a lawyer, I was 
reminded daily of the importance of the principle, to simply 
follow the law.
    My legal career spans 30 years, first as a litigator, then 
as a corporate attorney and senior partner at a Philadelphia 
law firm, then as in-house counsel to the Federal Government. 
I've led large teams through complex, high stakes matters. In 
one of my larger engagements, I managed a team of 40 lawyers 
through my client's successful $560 million acquisition of 
Philadelphia's two major daily newspapers.
    I also represented the Delaware River Port Authority for 
more than 15 years, serving as senior outside counsel. Most 
recently, I've served as deputy legal adviser at the U.S. 
Department of State and previously as acting general counsel at 
the U.S. Agency for International Development. These legal 
roles, both in private practice and as an in-house attorney, 
have shaped my evolution as a lawyer.
    The Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection 
(OAWP) holds a statutorily mandated leadership and oversight 
role under the VA Accountability and Whistleblower Protection 
Act of 2017. Besides oversight and policy guidance to VA's 
distinct administrations, the office, which I hope to lead, is 
responsible for defined procedures for handling whistleblower 
disclosures and senior leader misconduct.
    Running an organization with over 400,000 employees 
delivering direct services to some 9 million veterans involves 
one of the Federal Government's most demanding missions. Yet, 
despite the unique challenges the VA faces, veterans, 
taxpayers, and VA staff alike all deserve an accountability 
office that functions with integrity, independence, and genuine 
commitment to their interests.
    President Trump and Congress created this office in a 
bipartisan fashion to protect veterans. As the President said 
at the time, with the creation of this office, we are sending a 
strong message. Those who fail our veterans will be held for 
the first time, accountable. I undertake this pursuit with 
great respect for OAWP's history of conducting investigations 
and protecting whistleblowers. This opportunity represents 
something more than a career step. It is something very 
personal. My father and two oldest brothers were veterans, and 
as I mentioned, my son will one day be a veteran. For this 
reason alone, if confirmed, I commit to this Committee, to all 
veterans and to all VA employees, that I will work relentlessly 
and independently to continue to improve efficiency within 
OAWP's operations and processes.
    As President Lincoln stated in his second inaugural address 
near the end of the Civil War, ``the country's duty is to care 
for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and 
his orphan.'' These words are inscribed near the entrance to VA 
headquarters. They are not a suggestion. They are a promise--
one that every function of this department, including OAWP, 
exists to keep. I will pursue that mission zealously and 
professionally.
    Finally, if confirmed, I will work in conjunction with this 
Committee to continue to improve efficiency within OAWP's 
operations and processes, and address all matters independently 
with a commitment to accountability and transparency. Serving 
and respecting our veterans is our country's most sacred 
obligation. I'm grateful for this opportunity to appear before 
you, and I welcome your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Tierney appears on pages 69-
71 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Mr. Tierney. In order to 
compensate for my tardiness, I'll forego my questioning for 
later and recognize Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both 
for being here. Thank you to your families, your spouses, and 
each of you, I think, has three children. And they may be here 
or watching. Let me begin, Mr. Tierney, do you have any 
experience at the VA?
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you for that question, Senator. No, I 
don't.
    Senator Blumenthal. The answer was no. Do you have any 
experience working on behalf of whistleblowers?
    Mr. Tierney. I have worked with whistleblowers before, 
Senator. Yes.
    Senator Blumenthal. In what way?
    Mr. Tierney. In my practice at a law firm, I had clients 
who had whistleblower issues, who had much personnel misconduct 
issues that had to be addressed.
    Senator Blumenthal. Did you represent the whistleblowers or 
the company?
    Mr. Tierney. I represented the company.
    Senator Blumenthal. So, you were against the 
whistleblowers?
    Mr. Tierney. We worked to support the whistleblowers, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. You worked to support the 
whistleblowers?
    Mr. Tierney. To make sure that they weren't retaliated 
against by other senior employees.
    Senator Blumenthal. But you've never represented 
whistleblowers, correct?
    Mr. Tierney. Only protecting them through my client's 
representation.
    Senator Blumenthal. I note that you have served most 
recently as deputy legal adviser at the Department of State. 
You were also deputy acting general counsel at the U.S. Agency 
for International Development, known as USAID. Was that during 
the time that it was dismantled?
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I was 
not involved in the changes at USAID as far as its size and 
any----
    Senator Blumenthal. Did you serve in the agency during the 
time that it was dismantled?
    Mr. Tierney. So, yes, that was a gradual long-term process, 
but I--my role had nothing to do with dismantling USAID or 
letting go any personnel or changing any policy.
    Senator Blumenthal. How did you feel about it being 
dismantled?
    Mr. Tierney. You know, Senator, it wasn't part of my role. 
I was just there really as managing partner of a small law 
firm, making sure all the lawyers----
    Senator Blumenthal. You have no opinion.
    Mr. Tierney. It wasn't part of my role, Senator.
    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Shatswell, let me ask you: you have 
been at the VA for a period of time as a special advisor, 
correct?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. Are you aware that the VA has lost, 
whether firing or otherwise, 1,300 IT employees since the 
Administration took office?
    Mr. Shatswell. I am aware that there were some exiting 
employees, but that happened before I came, and I'm not into 
the details of what happened.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, you've been there since December 
of last year, correct?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. December 1st.
    Senator Blumenthal. And you're saying no IT employees have 
left in the last 7 months.
    Mr. Shatswell. Not that I'm aware of. I have not been 
involved in any of the dismissal or----
    Senator Blumenthal. What were your duties there?
    Mr. Shatswell. I was an assistant special senior advisor, 
excuse me, to the Secretary.
    Senator Blumenthal. Okay. But what was your area of 
responsibility? What did you do?
    Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator. It was a time of 
learning. I visited hospitals, I visited clinics, cemeteries. I 
met with senior leadership. Spent a good deal of time 
understanding the different departments so that I could 
understand the way that government works and the way that the 
VA----
    Senator Blumenthal. Did you make any recommendations on IT?
    Mr. Shatswell. I had one presentation where, after some 
time of envisioning and reviewing the technology, reviewing the 
way that things operated. I had one briefing with Secretary 
Collins. Yes, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. Would you say that it's important to 
restore the skilled and dedicated IT employees and their 
positions that have left?
    Mr. Shatswell. Senator, I am not privy to the details of 
the skill level or the staff details. My review was at a very 
high level functional, like departmental review, but not at a 
detail employee. So, I'm not aware of the individual job skills 
that are needed.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, but in general, wouldn't you 
agree that it's important to provide more staffing to make IT 
work better?
    Mr. Shatswell. Senator, thank you. I've met a lot of the 
staff across the country. The IT staff and a good amount of 
them are actual veterans that have transitioned into the VA. 
That has been an amazing experience because the nature of these 
people are dedicated, loyal, and they love serving. I do 
believe that there is room for a pipeline of young fresh out of 
college, hotshot smart kids that we can ramp into the VA, give 
them an opportunity to serve their country and build the skill 
level within the VA OIT.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, may I suggest that, I would have 
welcomed a response to the effect, yes, we need the skilled 
staff that we have lost because the OIT function can't be 
improved without it and we need to improve it. So, I hope that 
will be an approach that you take, if and when you are 
confirmed.
    My time has expired. I thank the Chairman for letting me go 
ahead. And I apologize, I have another, as we often do, another 
commitment that I'm going to have to attend. Thank you. Thanks, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator 
Tillis.

                       HON. THOM TILLIS,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank you 
for being here, and congratulations on your nomination. I 
intend to support your nominations or your confirmation. Mr. 
Shatswell, am I pronouncing that right?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Tillis. I come from an IT experience. If you've 
done any prep for this hearing, you know, my beef is the 
bipartisan failure to really modernize the VA. I've been on 
this Committee for going into my 12th year. I've seen very 
capable secretaries of the VA, and I've seen some fairly 
capable leaders in IT make an attempt, but they haven't made 
discernible progress. What are we going to do? I mean, and if 
you look at it from my perspective, having done enterprise IT 
implementations, there's no way on earth that the scheduling 
system should have taken the time and cost, what its cost, as 
one example.
    And I think a part of that has to do with a lack of a 
rationalization of what this organization looks like, needs to 
look like. You've mentioned things about best practices. I've 
heard all that word salad for 12 years here. What are you going 
to try and do in your first 90 days, to prove to somebody like 
me that you used to work in the same space, that you're going 
to do something different, you're going to hold people 
accountable?
    I've had discussions, for example, of why don't you get a 
program office that includes Members on this Committee? They're 
seeing the progress every day so that you've got champions here 
behind an IT modernization effort. I've never really seen a 
viable program office come out. They've had good consultants. 
What's going to be different about you versus what has been 
promised to me by Democrat and Republican nominees in the past? 
What's the secret sauce? What are you bringing to the effort?
    Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator, for the question. 
There's a lot in what you just asked. So let me start with, I 
think, to the point of a PMO office, a Program Management 
Office, it is a necessary piece that does not exist at the 
leadership level of OIT. That is a massive challenge, and I 
understand that there have been attempts to implement that in 
the past, and in those attempts, there has not been the 
requisite tooling to ensure that the visibility and the process 
was actually managed and the visibility was there through 
dashboarding and those kinds of things. One of the first tasks 
that I will be going after will be to implement a program 
management office, if confirmed.
    Senator Tillis. Okay. Now, again, I think it would be 
helpful for us to help you because that is roughly 
approximately the answer I've gotten on five or six occasions 
before this Committee. And I think the message here, I believe 
that you have the capabilities to do it, but you have to have 
executive sponsorship and the Secretary has to say, no, I'm 
going to be the first Secretary in 12 years, who's actually 
followed through on a viable program office that does the sort 
of work to try and prioritize IT platforms initiatives, is held 
accountable for the initial estimate, and for the end estimate, 
on due dates, on resources, on deliverables.
    It is amazing how much money we are leaving on the floor by 
doing this, in a bush league way, with one of the most large 
consequential organizations in U.S. Government. So count me in 
the remaining 214 days of my tenure, to help you stand up that 
office. But I will tell you in this Committee, the thing I like 
about this Committee and I will miss about it, is we're largely 
bipartisan, and I think you're missing the opportunity by not 
engaging Members on this Committee to be a part of that program 
office so that they can report back to the Chair the good work 
you're doing, and they can identify the obstacles that need to 
be removed so that you can achieve the goals. I've made that 
same commitment to Democratic and Republican people coming into 
your position.
    I hope you'll be the first one to take me up on it, because 
then I think you may end up being the first head of IT that 
will actually make a discernible difference versus just barely 
treading water and making progress around the edges. But, you 
know, quite honestly, I've got to give them third quartile 
results aggregate over the last 12 years. If you know anything 
about the Gartner Magic Quadrant, on a good day, they're there 
in quadrant number three. They're never going to get to upper 
right, if we don't have good leadership there and buy in.
    And Mr. Tierney, I appreciate you. I know you've had a very 
distinguished career. You've got to be doing this because your 
heart's in it and you want to serve. It's certainly not because 
the money's great. I look forward to supporting your 
confirmation, too. Just very quickly, just tell me how you're 
going to make whistleblowing something that is great, that 
people should do to keep everybody at every level of the 
organization accountable, very quickly. I know I've just gone 
over time.
    Mr. Tierney. Sure. Thank you, Senator, for your question. 
Whistleblowing is clearly the primary role and point of this 
role. And I think as a first step, employees must feel 
comfortable and secure in reporting on bad conduct or 
misconduct. Without the report, there's no investigation to 
monitor and control.
    How I would do that is, some of the current things going 
on. I know there's education, there's training, there's 
mandatory internet training. But I think messaging is very 
important. And coming down from leadership, if confirmed, I 
would work with other senior leaders at VA, career leaders, and 
learn and educate myself about how's the process working? How 
do we know people are comfortable reporting?
    I noticed over the last several years the reports have 
doubled approximately. You could say that's a good thing 
because maybe more people are feeling comfortable reporting. 
You could also say maybe it's not a good thing if there's more 
bad conduct going on. So that's something I would want to 
educate myself on and learn more about. If confirmed to be in 
there, to be able to learn about some information that 
obviously was, is confidential. At this point, I don't have 
access to.
    Senator Tillis. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Hassan.

                   HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

    Senator Hassan. Senator. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good 
afternoon to you both. Congratulations to you and your families 
for your nominations, and for your willingness to serve. I'm 
going to start with a question to both of you that I ask now of 
all nominees. If directed by the President to take action that 
would break the law, would you follow the law or the 
President's directive, Mr. Shatswell?
    Mr. Shatswell. I don't believe the President would do that, 
ma'am. But, yes, I would follow the law.
    Senator Hassan. Mr. Tierney?
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I 
similarly don't expect the President to give such a directive, 
but if he did, I will 100 percent always follow the law and 
ethics.
    Senator Hassan. Well, I appreciate your commitment to the 
law. I will say that we are in a war that was illegally 
initiated by this President, and he has refused to follow the 
law in that regard. He has just appointed somebody as Acting 
DNI who has no intelligence experience, even though the law 
clearly says that the DNI has to have such a superior 
experience. And on the symbolic front, the law is very clear 
that he did not have the right to put his name up on the 
Kennedy Center. And a court has just ruled that he broke the 
law in doing that. So, I am concerned that you all, started 
your answer with saying that you don't expect the President, 
this President, to break the law.
    Now, Mr. Tierney, if you're confirmed, you will be 
responsible for, among other things, investigating allegations 
of whistleblower retaliation as well as receiving and 
investigating allegations of misconduct, retaliation or poor 
performance involving senior VA employees. The Trump 
administration has retaliated against federal employees it has 
disagreed with. These are well publicized events, and you've 
been working, as, in your own words, an in-house attorney for 
this Administration. So on the one hand, you've been working 
for this Administration while it has actively and publicly 
retaliated against whistleblowers.
    So, if you're confirmed, how are you going to ensure that 
allegations brought to your office are properly investigated, 
and the VA employees are protected from retaliation, and that 
people have the confidence that if they bring a complaint to 
your office, that they will not be retaliated against?
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, that's a great question. 
If confirmed, I would do everything I can to make sure that all 
VA employees feel comfortable and secure in reporting bad 
conduct. Without the report, we cannot conduct an investigation 
and even analyze the benefits or not of the investigation or 
the quality of investigation. So how do we do that? I know 
currently there are different programs like education, 
training, mandatory tests, but I would do more than that. And 
really the messaging I think is important that it comes down 
from leadership that, this is our role, right?
    Senator Hassan. I appreciate and understand that as I 
appreciated your answer to Senator Tillis. But, look, the 
leader in chief retaliates against people all the time, is very 
public that he sees his role as President or that he has the 
option as President of the United States for retaliating 
against people, including whistleblowers. So, given that he is 
the leader here who sends the most dominating message, how are 
you going to counteract that?
    Mr. Tierney. Well, Senator, you know, I believe or 
understand that I report to the Secretary and to this 
Committee. And again, the role, by definition, is to make sure 
employees feel comfortable whistleblowing, reporting on bad 
conduct and safe that they're not going to be retaliated 
against. And I would do everything to make sure that messaging 
is loud and clear and that is what employees are hearing.
    Senator Hassan. Well, I hope you will consider just what 
the counter messaging from the top is like, and really be 
thoughtful about how, within the VA, you can really support 
whistleblowers. New Hampshire and its Manchester VA had a 
series of whistleblower events now about a decade ago, and they 
were very, very difficult for the whistleblowers involved. The 
whistleblowers actually, their actions, I think, made the 
Manchester VA a better place ultimately because they reported 
things that really needed to be reported. But you are going to 
have your work cut out for you, given the messaging from the 
White House.
    Mr. Shatswell, if you're confirmed, you'll be in charge of 
information and technology at the VA. One area that I've been 
interested in is updating the VA's scheduling capabilities. I 
think you know a little bit about the bill, especially the 
technology behind those capabilities. Right now, veterans, for 
instance, can't do all their scheduling all at once on one 
platform. So, it's phone calls, or internet access to 
scheduling platforms kind of one at a time. And by the time you 
schedule one visit with one specialist, and then you get to the 
next one that day may have, you know, similar appointments on 
the same day, may no longer be available.
    So, Senator Boozman and I have a bill that would require 
the VA to create a self-service scheduling platform that would 
allow veterans to book their VA appointments, all in one easy 
location. Our bill passed the Senate last year, and we're 
working to hopefully get it passed through the House and signed 
into law. If our bill becomes law, will you commit to working 
with my office to implement it and set up an easy, reliable 
platform that veterans can use to schedule all their VA 
appointments?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Moran. I'm going to call on Senator Sheehy next. 
But, Senator King, you are ineligible to speak about technology 
until you learn how to turn off your phone.
    [Laughter.]

                        HON. TIM SHEEHY,
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA

    Senator Sheehy. Well, Good afternoon, guys. Congratulations 
on your appointments. And so, Mr. Shatswell, you have a lot of 
IT experience, obviously. And, you know, we've been looking at 
ways that, our care access, whether it's community care or 
direct clinical care, can be provided more rapidly. And make 
sure that when those diagnoses are made and when those 
appointments are referred, it happens in a timely manner, 
doesn't turn into weeks and months of waiting and kind of that 
administrative do loop that happens.
    So, is there a technological reason why the VA could not 
assess at the time that the veterans request for care or 
specialty referral is entered in the system, that a VA facility 
can't provide the requested care within the typical access 
standard and frankly, abide by the law, which requires, you 
know, that treatment to be given in a certain period of time?
    Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator, for the question. The 
answer to that is not a fast answer, but I'll take a swing at 
it. When you look at the data that the VA has, it starts with 
the DoW, and the data flows into the VA a little before 
transition, with some after transition. That data is one way. 
Then that data goes into systems and there are literally 
hundreds of databases. Those hundreds of databases make a very 
complex environment where data is enriched all over the place, 
with one way data feeds that makes it extremely difficult to 
find the connections and do what you're asking about.
    One of the areas of modernizing the VA that I believe we 
need to focus on, I spoke with you, Senator King, about this, 
is we need an enterprise data platform. We need an enterprise 
data exchange where there's one place for the Warfighter Golden 
Record, where all of that data is contained. And it's the one 
system of record that everything points to. So, that those 
kinds of moments, like scheduling, as Senator Hassan said, 
becomes simple. It becomes an easy problem to solve. Right now, 
we have 14 scheduling solutions that I'm aware of. That's just 
unacceptable.
    Senator Sheehy. Yes. And I mean, from the health record 
perspective, I mean, that should become part of discharge. 
Like, we can't discharge a person from active duty until their 
health records have been transferred and received by VHA. So 
that's happened in addition to the disability benefits exam. 
But I think more specifically there, like if a referral enters 
the system on day one.
    So, we're not talking active-duty transition. Someone's out 
there, a veteran. They go into their CBOC to get their 
specialty care. The referral happens on day one. Is there a 
reason why in the current system that we have or system of 
systems, why when that referral happens, it can take days, 
weeks, or months for that referral to make its way through the 
system?
    I mean, is this a community care access problem? Is this an 
administrative issue or is this a technology issue with our IT 
systems that these referrals get lost in the ones and zero land 
forever? And sometimes, it's weeks or months before referrals 
approved?
    Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator. I think that the root of 
the issue is that there isn't one system. There are many 
systems, and they don't talk to each other. So, there is a lot 
of work to build those bridges and to make the data flow. That 
problem has to be solved in order to make what you're asking 
for a reality.
    Senator Sheehy. Yes. Well, it's going to be, I would hope 
it becomes a reductionist enterprise instead of adding more 
layers. Because what government does is when we want to solve a 
problem, we add more layers on top, and what we need to do is 
reduce that. We need to distill the system down to a minimal 
amount, hopefully one singular system that actually works 
instead of just layering more, you know, repaving over the same 
road over and over again. And we're not actually fixing the 
pothole; we're just paving over it.
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. One of my favorite things is 
turning things off. So, my goal would be to turn off as many 
things as possible and reduce the complexity. You also have a 
significant risk with a large cybersecurity and privacy 
perimeter. When you have hundreds of databases, if you can 
reduce them to a single one or reduce the number, it's much, 
much easier to protect. So, there's a lot of reasons, saving 
money, there's a lot of reasons why it makes sense for us to do 
that, sir.
    Senator Sheehy. Mr. Tierney, your community care. So, I'm a 
huge advocate for community care, it hasn't always been the 
most popular with the staff at the VA. But I think especially 
in a state like Montana where we're a huge state with not many 
people, some veterans could have a 7-hour drive to the VA 
clinic. So, community care is a key part of the fabric of VA 
care in Montana. We need to make sure those open lines of 
communication so that when community care is not being 
utilized, community care is being intentionally sidelined 
nationally. You know, those complaints, those reports are 
rapidly collated and acted on.
    And, you know, what can you do to assure me that as those 
whistleblower complaints or those reports come in, you know, 
they're not getting sidelined? They're getting prioritized and 
acted on because community care, as we see a provider shortage 
in all categories around American community care, it's going to 
be critical here for our veterans.
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator. And if I may briefly, I 
recognize your Naval Academy attendance. My son behind me is a 
rising second-class midshipman. And former superintendent Tom 
Lynch is here with me today, too, and I thank him for that.
    Senator Sheehy. There he is. I see him right there. Yes. 
Hey, Tom. How are you, Admiral?
    Mr. Tierney. Community care is very important, and I've 
been researching and planning for this potential role, if 
confirmed. I have heard that from others as well. Obviously, 
some states are much more rural than others. And if confirmed, 
I would talk to the people who are responsible for those areas 
and educate myself as to what's happening and how can we make 
it better. Things like distance, the service level of care. So, 
I would definitely look into that and talk to the people who 
know how it works. Talk to this Committee and see what can we 
do better and different? But 100 percent independence is the 
key to this role, and I'll be completely independent and non-
partisan on all issues and I appreciate you bringing that one 
up.
    Senator Sheehy. Great. Well, thanks for your time today, 
gentlemen. It's a key time for the VA to modernize and fix a 
lot of problems that have been alluded to that have been 
bothering us for a long time. So let's stop kicking the can and 
get it done. Thanks.
    Chairman Moran. Senator King.

                    HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize to 
everyone for the phone ringing. That's--I can think of worse 
times to have that happen, but not right offhand, in a hearing 
is pretty bad. Mr. Shatswell, just to be clear, your remit does 
not include the electronic medical records project. Is that 
correct?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, that is correct. Senator King.
    Senator King. Has that got its own office and own 
leadership? Is that the way it's set up?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes. I believe the confusion is that 
currently, Deputy Secretary Lawrence, is wearing two hats as 
the deputy and the acting CIO. So, it's gotten a little 
conflated. And when, if confirmed, I step into that role of the 
CIO, yes, it stays with him.
    Senator King. Electronic medical records is somebody else's 
problem----
    Mr. Shatswell. Dr. Neil Evans, correct.
    Senator King. Thank you. I'm going to charge you with 
making your job even more complicated. And that's dealing with 
the Grand Canyon between the Defense Department and the VA and 
how to coordinate systems in that way so that the veteran 
doesn't get lost, doesn't get dropped. Is that a project that 
is worth pursuing in your mind?
    Mr. Shatswell. One hundred percent. I believe that there is 
a lot that we can do there to improve service to active duty 
and veterans. Yes.
    Senator King. And I would hope that you would learn who 
your counterparts were in the department so that, that kind of 
activity could begin.
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. As well as Senators like yourself 
that can help to bridge the gaps.
    Senator King. I'll do what I can. Mr. Tierney, I'm worried 
about sort of counter currents going on here. One is 
whistleblower protection, which you've talked about, and 
investigating claims and protecting whistleblowers. And yet at 
the same time last year, it was reported that the VA was 
requiring their employees to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement 
(NDA) that did not include the legally required exclusion 
language for whistleblowers. Are you aware of that situation?
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you. Senator, I have read reports about 
that.
    Senator King. Well, I would hope that if there's another--
the OPM, just in the last week or so has talked about new 
whistleblower, I'm sorry, new non-disclosure agreements 
throughout the Federal Government. Have you reviewed the 
language that's being proposed?
    Mr. Tierney. I have not, Senator King, but I will 100 
percent say that NDAs and whistleblower activity have no role 
together. People, employees must feel 100 percent comfortable 
that they are not going to be restricted in reporting on bad 
conduct.
    Senator King. Well, I would hope as the legal counsel in 
this situation, that you would inform whoever's setting up 
these NDAs that that language must be in there that says, this 
does not include whistleblower complaints and the protections 
are left intact. Will you commit to me that you'll do that?
    Mr. Tierney. Yes, Senator. And it's also on OAWP's website. 
It's very clear that any whistleblower statute overrides any 
type of NDA language, and I agree with that. There's no role 
for NDAs and whistleblower.
    Senator King. I agree, thank you. I'm a little concerned. 
You were general counsel to USAID in the State Department? Was 
that your job title?
    Mr. Tierney. I was acting general counsel at USAID. I'm 
deputy legal advisor at State, which is another way to say 
deputy general counsel.
    Senator King. And just to clarify, were you in that 
position when Elon Musk fed USAID into the wood chipper?
    Mr. Tierney. No, sir, I was not.
    Senator King. You were not there during that period?
    Mr. Tierney. I was not.
    Senator King. Is it legal for the Executive to abolish a 
statutorily established agency unilaterally?
    Mr. Tierney. Senator, I appreciate the question, but I 
really have not researched that legal issue, and I really 
wouldn't be able to comment on that.
    Senator King. You've read the Constitution. You know, the 
law that Congress establishes the Executive branch agencies. 
You don't have an opinion on whether the Executive can just 
say, well, we don't--we no longer believe we need a USAID, or a 
Department of Labor, or whatever. You don't think that you 
don't have an opinion on that?
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator. Yes. I just am not 
familiar with the laws governing that type of issue. I've never 
had to research it. I never have. So----
    Senator King. And finally, you mentioned the word 
``independently'' several times. What do you mean by the use of 
that term?
    Mr. Tierney. Well, sir, Senator, some of the questions from 
both Committees have centered on, you know, if there's any 
influence or improper influence. And I just want to be clear 
that that's not acceptable. It's not appropriate in this role. 
This role is about independence, transparency, and quality of 
an investigation and responsiveness and timeliness.
    Senator King. So you would act independently, even if the 
whistleblower complaint was uncomfortable to the Secretary or 
to the President. Is that correct?
    Mr. Tierney. I would give the Secretary my recommendation 
regardless of what his response may be. I--that's my job is to 
report to him what our investigation finds.
    Senator King. Well, I just I appreciate those answers. The 
whistleblower function is very important in counterintuitive 
that we're enabling people to bring complaints against their 
superiors in many cases. And that's why the position that you 
have is so important, not only to protect those individuals, 
but to make the government function better. That's the whole 
idea here. So, I take you at your word that independence is 
going to be part of your job, and that you're going to protect 
those whistleblowers, even if their activities have displeased 
their superiors and perhaps your superiors.
    Mr. Tierney. Senator, no role is above accountability, in 
my opinion. Whether, regardless of how senior that role is. 
OAWP is here to protect all veterans, regardless of the 
seniority level of the subject at the time.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you. Mr. Shatswell, since assuming 
the senior advisor role in December, have you used that 
opportunity to assess the circumstances, the current state of 
affairs at the Office of Information and Technology?
    Mr. Shatswell. To some degree, I would say very opaquely. 
From a senior leadership level, I have reviewed the structure 
of the organization. I have had the opportunity to travel and 
to see some of the technology working in the different 
locations, the VISNs, the Sim lab down in Orlando. So, I've had 
the opportunity to assess it from that level. Yes.
    Chairman Moran. I would think it might be a circumstance in 
which you get the legal pad out and yellow pages, and you just 
start writing one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. 
These are the problems and these are my ideas. Have you 
analyzed what your first step, day one and thereafter, would be 
in this role?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. As you can imagine, it's a target-
rich environment. There's a lot to fix. There's a lot that can 
be very distracting, and so as I have had the opportunity and 
this time of envisioning, I've kind of broken it up into two 
categories. One, we'll call it organizational and the other 
more on the technical side. On the organizational side, there 
is a significant need for a proper program management office. I 
call it a program or portfolio value office, because at the end 
of the day, we need to be driving the right value to the 
veterans. And that's the focus of everything that we should be 
doing at OIT.
    So how do we do that? Getting into an agile scrum process, 
which is a process management style, that we will properly tool 
and train throughout the org., if confirmed. That will drive 
accountability at the individual worker level. It will drive 
visibility at the stakeholder level so that everyone knows 
what's going on and what's the status and the priority of their 
piece within the work that OIT is doing. So, eyes wide open, 
anybody can see it. It's not a mystery. That's what we would be 
driving toward.
    Chairman Moran. Have you yet talked to people within the 
OIT that work there today, work with you at the VA today and 
ask them their views on what's missing? Senator Tillis and 
Senator Sheehy both indicated the magnitude of the problems. 
We've heard them for a long time. Senator Tillis, in 
particular, talked about nothing seems to change. So, I'm 
looking for this. I'm the guy who's going to make things 
change. And here's what I know that needs to be done and I'm 
going to hit the ground running. Can you assure me that you 
have done that and are that person?
    Mr. Shatswell. One thousand percent Senator. That has been 
my career experience for the last 30 plus years of executive 
technology management. That's what I do. I fix problems. I love 
the gnarly ones, the ones that are really hard, the ones that 
are really tough. I love the puzzles because I like to effect 
change.
    Chairman Moran. If that's true, you're going to love this 
job.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir.
    Chairman Moran. Let me ask Mr. Shatswell. Again, I'm 
intrigued by you being a senior adviser to the Secretary. I'm 
intrigued not because of you personally, but it's been the role 
that so many people have been in who come before our Committee 
seeking their--they've received a nomination seeking our 
agreement with that nomination and confirmation. How many 
people are senior advisors to the Secretary of the Department 
of Veterans Affairs?
    Mr. Shatswell. Sir, I'm sorry, I don't have a number. I 
don't know the number.
    Chairman Moran. Is it two, or three, or is it dozens?
    Mr. Shatswell. No, I don't believe it's dozens. It's a 
handful, I believe.
    Chairman Moran. How did you become a senior advisor?
    Mr. Shatswell. I was--I was working for Unilever. I was 
approached with the opportunity to come and be a senior advisor 
within, I believe it was three weeks. I was here----
    Chairman Moran. Approached by the Secretary?
    Mr. Shatswell. No, from the White House. White House 
liaison.
    Chairman Moran. And was that the suggestion that if you 
became a senior advisor that there might be a role for you to 
play at the VA beyond being a senior advisor?
    Mr. Shatswell. That was a possibility, sir.
    Chairman Moran. And is that the Administration's, does it 
seem to you that's the Administration's training ground for 
individuals that they may want to place within the Department? 
Come, be the senior advisor let us evaluate you and make a 
determination whether there's a role for you to play in a more 
permanent way at the VA?
    Mr. Shatswell. I can tell you my experience that was the 
way that it was. Beyond that, I don't have the experience to 
know what that would look like for other folks.
    Chairman Moran. And as a senior adviser at the Department 
of Veterans Affairs, do you advise the Secretary like daily, 
weekly, monthly? Is it an ongoing thing or you're really there 
learning about the Department of Veterans Affairs and preparing 
for a future position?
    Mr. Shatswell. A little bit of both. I was absolutely 
there, meeting with the Secretary on a couple of occasions to 
provide advice and suggestions into what I was learning and the 
ideations from that, with the opportunity to sit in on meetings 
and meet the senior leadership and understand the way that the 
VA works.
    Chairman Moran. And the advice that you were asked to 
provide to the Secretary was related to the job that you're now 
being considered for?
    Mr. Shatswell. No, sir. It was a broader. Looking at--my 
background, Senator Moran is, I've been over marketing, I've 
been over finance, I've been over renovation, I've been in 
technology, so the breadth of my background was bringing all of 
that into play, to evaluate everything that was going on. And 
with my lens coming in as an industry person, not as a 
government person, gives a unique perspective to the problems 
that often, I would say, suffer from shortsightedness because 
often decisions are made from a political standpoint and not a 
long-term true North plan. And so, from my perspective, I'm 
working to develop what would be that long-term plan so that we 
have a true North over multiple administrations in the future.
    Chairman Moran. I'll now turn to Mr. Tierney. OAWP is 
responsible for tracking the VA's compliance with 
recommendations from the inspector general, the VA's medical 
inspector, the Office of Special Counsel and the GAO, the 
Government Accounting Office. So that's in addition to the 
whistleblower aspect that we've mostly been talking about 
today. Do you have a view about the role that those entities 
play in improving the services and capabilities, the quality of 
work performed at the Department of Veterans Affairs?
    Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator Moran, for that question. 
Yes, you know, I've read and understand that OAWP, OSC, and OIG 
have an interplay between the three groups as far as handling 
misconduct and, as far as doing these reports, as you say. And 
I would work cooperatively with both of those other sub-
agencies on making sure that all of our reporting is accurate, 
timely, and in the right hands of the right person.
    Chairman Moran. Mr. Tierney, I would indicate that while I 
can only speak for myself, but I have enough experience with 
the Members of this Committee to have a sense, and it's 
certainly my sense that this Committee pays a lot of attention 
to the Inspector General, the GAO. We consider their reports 
serious and significant. We expect them to be abided by, and if 
not, we expect an explanation for why what they're recommending 
is not accomplishable or shouldn't be accomplished; they're 
making a mistake.
    I don't know that there's a question in that, but I want 
you, if confirmed, to take--maybe the question is, I want you 
to confirm that you will take those recommendations by those 
other agencies seriously, and with an understanding that there 
is an expectation, at least on my part, and I think most, if 
not all Members of this Committee, that we would see decisions 
made at the VA that reflect what the, what those agencies, what 
those entities have recommended. Anything that troubles you 
with that circumstance?
    Mr. Tierney. No, Senator, not at all. I completely agree. 
That's a key role of the Assistant Secretary responsibility.
    Chairman Moran. And I would tell you that they're not 
always followed quickly and not always followed, period. And, I 
would indicate to you that in communicating with, particularly 
the staff of this Committee, but the members as well, it would 
be useful for us to know that you find an objection to a 
recommendation by the IG or the GAO, particularly the IG, that 
you ought to let us know. And, I assume that's compatible with 
the way you operate.
    Mr. Tierney. Yes, sir.
    Chairman Moran. Along that line, let me ask you to commit 
to providing this Committee with briefings on a quarterly basis 
on OAWP's trends, your accomplishments, the ongoing priorities, 
including case processing times and disciplinary actions taken. 
Is that satisfactory?
    Mr. Tierney. Yes, Senator. Absolutely.
    Chairman Moran. And I would ask you, Mr. Shatswell, a 
really similar question to that. I'd like for you to commit to 
providing the Committee with briefings on a quarterly basis, at 
least, on OIT trends, accomplishments, ongoing priorities to 
include workforce changes, cybersecurity threats, and major 
modernization projects. Is that acceptable to you?
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator. I would hope it would be much 
more frequent than that.
    Chairman Moran. While Senator Tillis volunteered to serve 
on a committee to give you advice on how to fix the department, 
I would stay, I would refrain from me volunteering to join you 
in that effort, but I want to know what you're doing and how 
it's going and what help you need from us. And what's the 
missing link in finally accomplishing the things that Members 
around this table have indicated are important to get the VA 
quote ``once and for all'' in a position that needs to be in 
regard to IT.
    Mr. Shatswell. You have my commitment to that, sir.
    Chairman Moran. Senator King.
    Senator King. A quick follow up. Mr. Tierney, during the 
nomination process, did anyone indicate to you that there was 
an intention to weaken or eliminate OAWP?
    Mr. Tierney. No, Senator.
    Senator King. No, no discussion of that?
    Mr. Tierney. Not at all.
    Senator King. Would you resist and support the office, as 
its director, if there were efforts made to cut staff or reduce 
the efficacy of the office?
    Mr. Tierney. Senator King, I believe the office has an 
important role in within VA. As far as staff, obviously, I 
don't have visibility into the function yet, but if confirmed, 
I would analyze that and see if we need more people, need less 
people. I just don't have an eye into that yet, sir.
    Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Sheehy, anything?
    Senator Sheehy. [Off-mic].
    Chairman Moran. Thank you both for being here today. We're 
going to conclude this hearing. And there may be questions that 
we, this Committee, that staff want to ask you. They'll be 
submitted to you in writing, and we would expect a timely 
response from you. We have the leverage of holding your 
confirmation until we get the answers to our questions.
    Chairman Moran. But let me ask either one of you, which is 
my usual practice, is there something that you said that you 
wish you hadn't or that you would like to say that you weren't 
given the opportunity to say, having heard our questions and 
now see the totality of the hearing? Are you satisfied with 
where you are?
    Mr. Tierney. I am, Senator.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you.
    Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you both very much. With that, the 
hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 5:22 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]


                            A P P E N D I X

                           Opening Statement

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                     Nomination Material for

                             GARY SHATSWELL

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                        Nomination Material for

                            MICHAEL TIERNEY
                            
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