    [Senate Hearing 119-442]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                           S. Hrg. 119-442

                    HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS
    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                  JUNE 3, 2026

                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                  __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    63-995 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2026
    =======================================================================

                    SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
    John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut,
    Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                  Ranking Member
    Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington
    Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont
    Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
    Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New
    Tommy Tuberville, Alabama                Hampshire
    Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
    Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
                                         Ruben Gallego, Arizona
                                         Elissa Slotkin, Michigan

                         David Shearman, Staff Director
                    Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                                  June 3, 2026

                                    SENATORS

                                                                       Page
    Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     1
    Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from
      Connecticut....................................................     2
    Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............     8
    Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    10
    Hon. Tim Sheehy, U.S. Senator from Montana.......................    12
    Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    14

                                    NOMINEES

    Gary Shatswell, Nominee to be Secretary of Veteran Affairs for
      Information and Technology.....................................     3

    Michael Tierney, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans
      Affairs for the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower
      Protection.....................................................     5

                                    APPENDIX
                               Opening Statement

    Hon. Richard Blumenthal..........................................    25

                              Nomination Material

    GARY SHATSWELL, Nominee

      Prepared Statement.............................................    31

      Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    34
        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    41

      Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    46
        Hon. Thom Tillis.............................................    51

      Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    53

      Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................    64

    MICHAEL TIERNEY, Nominee

      Prepared Statement.............................................    69

      Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    72
        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    79

      Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    83
        Hon. Thom Tillis.............................................    87
        Hon. Angus S. King, Jr.......................................    90

      Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    92

      Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................   102

                                   HEARING TO
                          CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, JUNE 3, 2026

                                           U.S. Senate,
                                Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:22 p.m., in
    Room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

        Present: Senators Moran, Tillis, Sheehy, Blumenthal,
    Hassan, and King.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
                   CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

        Chairman Moran. The Committee will come to order, and I
    apologize to our two witnesses. I've apologized to my
    colleagues, and I'll apologize to all those who've been sitting
    in the room waiting for this hearing to start. I guess nothing
    is unavoidable, but it's been difficult to keep today's
    schedule on time. And I'll do my best to make it up to my
    colleagues in particular, and the witnesses still need our
    cooperation. So, I'm not too worried about the two of you being
    angry at me.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Blumenthal. Since none of us have ever been late
    before to a Committee meeting, we'll excuse you just this once.
        Chairman Moran. That's so kind of you. Such as proving
    that, we're sort of a bipartisan effort in this Committee.
    Look, we're here to hear the testimony and consider the
    nominations of two individuals. Gary Shatswell to be the
    Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs for Information and
    Technology and Michael Tierney to be the Assistant Secretary of
    Veterans Affairs for Accountability and Whistleblower
    Protection. I appreciate your willingness to serve.
        There are important issues that come with your positions,
    and I look forward to the Committee asking the necessary
    questions to determine the qualifications and capabilities and
    the appropriateness of confirming your nomination. That's
    particularly true when there's the timing of the rollout of new
    electronic health records. It's back on track after a lengthy
    pause. And artificial intelligence is transforming every
    sector. It's critical that the VA to have a strong and
    qualified Chief Information Officer. I look forward to hearing
    from Mr. Shatswell, if he's confirmed, how he would lead that
    modernization effort, safeguard data, and effectively integrate
    automation and AI in the Department to increase access to care,
    benefits to veterans, and their families to rely on.
        Likewise, I look forward to hearing from Mr. Tierney about
    how, if confirmed, he would increase accountability,
    transparency and trust among veterans, caregivers, survivors,
    and the VA staff members, as well as taxpayers and the American
    public. The VA, as we know, supports millions of veterans and
    beneficiaries, employs hundreds of thousands of employees, and
    operates medical facilities and regional offices and cemeteries
    around the globe with a budget that has totaled more than $500
    billion in fiscal year 2027. Accountability is not an option,
    and it's essential. I'm grateful to both of you for being here
    and for your willingness, your eagerness, perhaps, to take on
    the challenges that I just described and all those other
    challenges that we may not even recognize today.
        And with that, I yield to the Ranking Member, Senator
    Blumenthal.

                        HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
             RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT

        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are two
    critical positions. Whistleblowers play a critical role in
    bringing fraud, waste, and abuse to light, and they can
    actually save lives. In the fiscal year 2025, there were more
    than 4,300 complaints, but only 32 disciplinary
    recommendations. The GAO found last year that, VA is unable to
    track corrective actions taken in whistleblower cases, and does
    not have accurate data about settlement agreements. This year's
    budget proposal fails to keep pace with inflation and keeps
    staffing levels stagnant.
        The request doesn't account for additional manpower needed
    for tracking cases, as recommended by the GAO. It certainly
    doesn't account for the 31 percent increase in complaints and
    disclosures during the fiscal year 2025. And the budget request
    wouldn't support the Department's intent to expand the office's
    authority to proactively investigate unreported whistleblower
    retaliation, which would increase the workload immensely. This
    is a recipe for continued failure.
        And if confirmed, Mr. Tierney, you will have to demonstrate
    the backbone, stand up to this Administration and to the
    President of the United States and say, we need to protect
    whistleblowers. We need to do more and invest more, and provide
    the tools and authority that are needed to effectively do this
    job. We owe it to our veterans.
        Likewise, Mr. Shatswell, if you're confirmed, you'll be
    responsible for managing a technology system that have been in
    the Senate for close to 16 years, like Senator Moran, has been
    a classic story of government failure, and it is ongoing. And
    I'm not going to go into all the details. I'm going to ask that
    my full statement be put in the record.
        Chairman Moran. Without objection.

        [The opening statement of Senator Blumenthal appears on
    pages 25-27 of the Appendix.]

        Senator Blumenthal. But plainly, this system has suffered
    from massive cost overruns. It still is failing to work as
    intended 15 or more years ago, and the Congress is going to
    need your commitment to ensure that there are appropriate
    guardrails and transparency in how the VA uses AI and
    automation now, features that couldn't have been envisioned 15
    years ago.
        So, I look forward to hearing more from you about your
    plans for the future. And I hope that they will allay some of
    the concerns that I think we have and should have, about
    whether you will be independent sufficiently to say to the
    Administration, in effect, this ain't working for our veterans,
    because we need that independence. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal, thank you. Mr.
    Shatswell and Mr. Tierney, before being recognized for your
    opening statement, would you please stand and raise your right
    hand? Hands.
        [Both stand with right hand raised.]
        Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're
    about to give before the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans'
    Affairs will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
    truth, so help you God?
        Mr. Shatswell. I do.
        Mr. Tierney. I do.
        Chairman Moran. If so, please respond affirmatively, and
    you have. The record should note both have done so. Thank you
    very much. Please be seated. And, Mr. Shatswell, you are now
    recognized for your opening statement.

        STATEMENT OF GARY SHATSWELL, NOMINEE TO BE SECRETARY OF
            VETERANS AFFAIRS FOR INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY

        Mr. Shatswell. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal,
    and distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the
    opportunity to appear before you today as the nominee to serve
    as the Assistant Secretary for Information and Technology and
    Chief Information Officer for the Department of Veterans
    Affairs. I am deeply grateful to the President, President
    Donald J. Trump, for this honor and for his confidence in me.
    And I'm thankful to Secretary Douglas A. Collins for his trust.
        I sit before you a man who loves God, my family, and my
    country. So, I begin with God. I am filled with gratitude to my
    Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whose words have guided my life.
    In John 15, he says ``There is no greater love than to lay down
    one's life for a friend.'' Those words describe the ethos of
    every man and woman who has worn this Nation's uniform. Placing
    something larger than themselves above their own comfort,
    safety and, in some cases, their lives. If confirmed, honoring
    their sacrifice and service, will be a guiding light.
        To my family, I want to acknowledge my three amazing
    children who are watching online; Julia, Elizabeth, and
    Garrison. I love you more than words, and I'm so proud of who
    you are and how it shows up in your faith, service, and work.
    My family name, though uncommon, has deep roots. John Shatswell
    built his first home in Ipswich in 1635. Thomas Shatswell was a
    drummer boy for the Patriots in the Revolutionary War. Colonel
    Nathaniel Shatswell fought for the Union in the Civil War. Of
    the eight boys in my father's family, six served, including my
    father. My uncle, Kenny, returned from Vietnam wearing a Purple
    Heart. I have cousins, nieces, and nephews that have served.
    Before my father passed, I took him regularly to the VA in
    Tacoma, Washington and saw firsthand what the VA means to those
    who served and those who love them.
        Finally, to my country, I was raised in an extraordinary
    family that formed my love for America. We traveled extensively
    singing gospel music. When I was 10 years old, we toured
    Europe, including Behind the Iron Curtain. I remember feeling
    the oppression as we crossed those borders. And I remember how
    the next time I recited the Pledge of Allegiance, tears ran
    down my face. American freedom became real to me.
        Since joining the VA as a senior advisor to Secretary
    Collins on December 1 of 2025, I've met with senior leaders in
    the central office, medical centers, clinics, and cemeteries
    around the country. I sat with many veterans and heard their
    stories. That time of listening was invaluable. From my
    industry experience, I began asking: what if? What if we
    connected with service members when they enlisted and stayed
    present through active duty, transition, and the rest of their
    lives? No one left behind.
        What if we eliminated repeatedly asking veterans the same
    questions and the same information? What if, rather than
    digitizing old paper processes, we re-imagined them in
    digitally native ways. It has been a blessing to witness the
    breadth of support this country provides its veterans. But
    frankly, we can and must do better when it comes to information
    technology.
        My conversations with leadership and individual
    contributors have revealed a few common themes. We need a
    culture of transparency and accountability achievable through
    agile program management, which will also accelerate mission
    delivery. We must go faster.
        Regarding artificial intelligence, we need clear, bright-
    lined guardrails of security and privacy, enabling a green
    light to drive productivity and human decision-making. We need
    to leverage our enterprise data as a strategic asset,
    strengthening security and unlocking benefits we cannot yet
    fully envision.
        My resume highlights 30 years of executive leadership,
    hyper-growth, turnaround management, yet there are countless
    untold stories. For example, I created and taught the first web
    development course at Microsoft in the mid-90s. I ask hard
    questions and I do hard work. I've had the privilege of meeting
    with several of you, and in those conversations about improving
    service to our veterans that has deepened my commitment. If
    confirmed, I will support the Secretary and this Committee, to
    prioritize, execute, and deliver.
        In loving God, my family, and this country, the threat of
    service is in my DNA. Mr. Chairman and Members of this
    Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you
    and to be considered for this position. I look forward to
    answering your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Shatswell appears on pages
    31-33 of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Moran. Mr. Shatswell, thank you for your
    statement. Now, Mr. Tierney.

    STATEMENT OF MICHAEL TIERNEY, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
       OF VETERANS AFFAIRS FOR THE OFFICE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND
                        WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION

        Mr. Tierney. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and
    Members of this Committee, thank you for the opportunity to
    appear before you today. It is a genuine honor.
        I want to begin by acknowledging my family members who are
    here with me today, my wife of 26 years, Margaret, and two of
    my children. My son Michael, a rising second-class midshipman
    at the United States Naval Academy, and my younger daughter,
    Caroline, a rising freshman at the University of California,
    Berkeley. My older daughter, Madeleine, is preparing for her
    graduation at the University of Chicago, where she is a
    business economics major. Thank you also to President Trump and
    Secretary Collins for their confidence in me.
        There is a quote often attributed to Sir Thomas More, the
    English lawyer and philosopher that has relevance today: ``In
    matters of law, morality aside, one must remember that the law
    itself is the foundation of justice, and all who practice it
    must not evade it.'' In the practice of being a lawyer, I was
    reminded daily of the importance of the principle, to simply
    follow the law.
        My legal career spans 30 years, first as a litigator, then
    as a corporate attorney and senior partner at a Philadelphia
    law firm, then as in-house counsel to the Federal Government.
    I've led large teams through complex, high stakes matters. In
    one of my larger engagements, I managed a team of 40 lawyers
    through my client's successful $560 million acquisition of
    Philadelphia's two major daily newspapers.
        I also represented the Delaware River Port Authority for
    more than 15 years, serving as senior outside counsel. Most
    recently, I've served as deputy legal adviser at the U.S.
    Department of State and previously as acting general counsel at
    the U.S. Agency for International Development. These legal
    roles, both in private practice and as an in-house attorney,
    have shaped my evolution as a lawyer.
        The Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection
    (OAWP) holds a statutorily mandated leadership and oversight
    role under the VA Accountability and Whistleblower Protection
    Act of 2017. Besides oversight and policy guidance to VA's
    distinct administrations, the office, which I hope to lead, is
    responsible for defined procedures for handling whistleblower
    disclosures and senior leader misconduct.
        Running an organization with over 400,000 employees
    delivering direct services to some 9 million veterans involves
    one of the Federal Government's most demanding missions. Yet,
    despite the unique challenges the VA faces, veterans,
    taxpayers, and VA staff alike all deserve an accountability
    office that functions with integrity, independence, and genuine
    commitment to their interests.
        President Trump and Congress created this office in a
    bipartisan fashion to protect veterans. As the President said
    at the time, with the creation of this office, we are sending a
    strong message. Those who fail our veterans will be held for
    the first time, accountable. I undertake this pursuit with
    great respect for OAWP's history of conducting investigations
    and protecting whistleblowers. This opportunity represents
    something more than a career step. It is something very
    personal. My father and two oldest brothers were veterans, and
    as I mentioned, my son will one day be a veteran. For this
    reason alone, if confirmed, I commit to this Committee, to all
    veterans and to all VA employees, that I will work relentlessly
    and independently to continue to improve efficiency within
    OAWP's operations and processes.
        As President Lincoln stated in his second inaugural address
    near the end of the Civil War, ``the country's duty is to care
    for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and
    his orphan.'' These words are inscribed near the entrance to VA
    headquarters. They are not a suggestion. They are a promise--
    one that every function of this department, including OAWP,
    exists to keep. I will pursue that mission zealously and
    professionally.
        Finally, if confirmed, I will work in conjunction with this
    Committee to continue to improve efficiency within OAWP's
    operations and processes, and address all matters independently
    with a commitment to accountability and transparency. Serving
    and respecting our veterans is our country's most sacred
    obligation. I'm grateful for this opportunity to appear before
    you, and I welcome your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Tierney appears on pages 69-
    71 of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Mr. Tierney. In order to
    compensate for my tardiness, I'll forego my questioning for
    later and recognize Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both
    for being here. Thank you to your families, your spouses, and
    each of you, I think, has three children. And they may be here
    or watching. Let me begin, Mr. Tierney, do you have any
    experience at the VA?
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you for that question, Senator. No, I
    don't.
        Senator Blumenthal. The answer was no. Do you have any
    experience working on behalf of whistleblowers?
        Mr. Tierney. I have worked with whistleblowers before,
    Senator. Yes.
        Senator Blumenthal. In what way?
        Mr. Tierney. In my practice at a law firm, I had clients
    who had whistleblower issues, who had much personnel misconduct
    issues that had to be addressed.
        Senator Blumenthal. Did you represent the whistleblowers or
    the company?
        Mr. Tierney. I represented the company.
        Senator Blumenthal. So, you were against the
    whistleblowers?
        Mr. Tierney. We worked to support the whistleblowers, sir.
        Senator Blumenthal. You worked to support the
    whistleblowers?
        Mr. Tierney. To make sure that they weren't retaliated
    against by other senior employees.
        Senator Blumenthal. But you've never represented
    whistleblowers, correct?
        Mr. Tierney. Only protecting them through my client's
    representation.
        Senator Blumenthal. I note that you have served most
    recently as deputy legal adviser at the Department of State.
    You were also deputy acting general counsel at the U.S. Agency
    for International Development, known as USAID. Was that during
    the time that it was dismantled?
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I was
    not involved in the changes at USAID as far as its size and
    any----
        Senator Blumenthal. Did you serve in the agency during the
    time that it was dismantled?
        Mr. Tierney. So, yes, that was a gradual long-term process,
    but I--my role had nothing to do with dismantling USAID or
    letting go any personnel or changing any policy.
        Senator Blumenthal. How did you feel about it being
    dismantled?
        Mr. Tierney. You know, Senator, it wasn't part of my role.
    I was just there really as managing partner of a small law
    firm, making sure all the lawyers----
        Senator Blumenthal. You have no opinion.
        Mr. Tierney. It wasn't part of my role, Senator.
        Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Shatswell, let me ask you: you have
    been at the VA for a period of time as a special advisor,
    correct?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir.
        Senator Blumenthal. Are you aware that the VA has lost,
    whether firing or otherwise, 1,300 IT employees since the
    Administration took office?
        Mr. Shatswell. I am aware that there were some exiting
    employees, but that happened before I came, and I'm not into
    the details of what happened.
        Senator Blumenthal. Well, you've been there since December
    of last year, correct?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. December 1st.
        Senator Blumenthal. And you're saying no IT employees have
    left in the last 7 months.
        Mr. Shatswell. Not that I'm aware of. I have not been
    involved in any of the dismissal or----
        Senator Blumenthal. What were your duties there?
        Mr. Shatswell. I was an assistant special senior advisor,
    excuse me, to the Secretary.
        Senator Blumenthal. Okay. But what was your area of
    responsibility? What did you do?
        Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator. It was a time of
    learning. I visited hospitals, I visited clinics, cemeteries. I
    met with senior leadership. Spent a good deal of time
    understanding the different departments so that I could
    understand the way that government works and the way that the
    VA----
        Senator Blumenthal. Did you make any recommendations on IT?
        Mr. Shatswell. I had one presentation where, after some
    time of envisioning and reviewing the technology, reviewing the
    way that things operated. I had one briefing with Secretary
    Collins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Blumenthal. Would you say that it's important to
    restore the skilled and dedicated IT employees and their
    positions that have left?
        Mr. Shatswell. Senator, I am not privy to the details of
    the skill level or the staff details. My review was at a very
    high level functional, like departmental review, but not at a
    detail employee. So, I'm not aware of the individual job skills
    that are needed.
        Senator Blumenthal. Well, but in general, wouldn't you
    agree that it's important to provide more staffing to make IT
    work better?
        Mr. Shatswell. Senator, thank you. I've met a lot of the
    staff across the country. The IT staff and a good amount of
    them are actual veterans that have transitioned into the VA.
    That has been an amazing experience because the nature of these
    people are dedicated, loyal, and they love serving. I do
    believe that there is room for a pipeline of young fresh out of
    college, hotshot smart kids that we can ramp into the VA, give
    them an opportunity to serve their country and build the skill
    level within the VA OIT.
        Senator Blumenthal. Well, may I suggest that, I would have
    welcomed a response to the effect, yes, we need the skilled
    staff that we have lost because the OIT function can't be
    improved without it and we need to improve it. So, I hope that
    will be an approach that you take, if and when you are
    confirmed.
        My time has expired. I thank the Chairman for letting me go
    ahead. And I apologize, I have another, as we often do, another
    commitment that I'm going to have to attend. Thank you. Thanks,
    Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator
    Tillis.

                           HON. THOM TILLIS,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank you
    for being here, and congratulations on your nomination. I
    intend to support your nominations or your confirmation. Mr.
    Shatswell, am I pronouncing that right?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Tillis. I come from an IT experience. If you've
    done any prep for this hearing, you know, my beef is the
    bipartisan failure to really modernize the VA. I've been on
    this Committee for going into my 12th year. I've seen very
    capable secretaries of the VA, and I've seen some fairly
    capable leaders in IT make an attempt, but they haven't made
    discernible progress. What are we going to do? I mean, and if
    you look at it from my perspective, having done enterprise IT
    implementations, there's no way on earth that the scheduling
    system should have taken the time and cost, what its cost, as
    one example.
        And I think a part of that has to do with a lack of a
    rationalization of what this organization looks like, needs to
    look like. You've mentioned things about best practices. I've
    heard all that word salad for 12 years here. What are you going
    to try and do in your first 90 days, to prove to somebody like
    me that you used to work in the same space, that you're going
    to do something different, you're going to hold people
    accountable?
        I've had discussions, for example, of why don't you get a
    program office that includes Members on this Committee? They're
    seeing the progress every day so that you've got champions here
    behind an IT modernization effort. I've never really seen a
    viable program office come out. They've had good consultants.
    What's going to be different about you versus what has been
    promised to me by Democrat and Republican nominees in the past?
    What's the secret sauce? What are you bringing to the effort?
        Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
    There's a lot in what you just asked. So let me start with, I
    think, to the point of a PMO office, a Program Management
    Office, it is a necessary piece that does not exist at the
    leadership level of OIT. That is a massive challenge, and I
    understand that there have been attempts to implement that in
    the past, and in those attempts, there has not been the
    requisite tooling to ensure that the visibility and the process
    was actually managed and the visibility was there through
    dashboarding and those kinds of things. One of the first tasks
    that I will be going after will be to implement a program
    management office, if confirmed.
        Senator Tillis. Okay. Now, again, I think it would be
    helpful for us to help you because that is roughly
    approximately the answer I've gotten on five or six occasions
    before this Committee. And I think the message here, I believe
    that you have the capabilities to do it, but you have to have
    executive sponsorship and the Secretary has to say, no, I'm
    going to be the first Secretary in 12 years, who's actually
    followed through on a viable program office that does the sort
    of work to try and prioritize IT platforms initiatives, is held
    accountable for the initial estimate, and for the end estimate,
    on due dates, on resources, on deliverables.
        It is amazing how much money we are leaving on the floor by
    doing this, in a bush league way, with one of the most large
    consequential organizations in U.S. Government. So count me in
    the remaining 214 days of my tenure, to help you stand up that
    office. But I will tell you in this Committee, the thing I like
    about this Committee and I will miss about it, is we're largely
    bipartisan, and I think you're missing the opportunity by not
    engaging Members on this Committee to be a part of that program
    office so that they can report back to the Chair the good work
    you're doing, and they can identify the obstacles that need to
    be removed so that you can achieve the goals. I've made that
    same commitment to Democratic and Republican people coming into
    your position.
        I hope you'll be the first one to take me up on it, because
    then I think you may end up being the first head of IT that
    will actually make a discernible difference versus just barely
    treading water and making progress around the edges. But, you
    know, quite honestly, I've got to give them third quartile
    results aggregate over the last 12 years. If you know anything
    about the Gartner Magic Quadrant, on a good day, they're there
    in quadrant number three. They're never going to get to upper
    right, if we don't have good leadership there and buy in.
        And Mr. Tierney, I appreciate you. I know you've had a very
    distinguished career. You've got to be doing this because your
    heart's in it and you want to serve. It's certainly not because
    the money's great. I look forward to supporting your
    confirmation, too. Just very quickly, just tell me how you're
    going to make whistleblowing something that is great, that
    people should do to keep everybody at every level of the
    organization accountable, very quickly. I know I've just gone
    over time.
        Mr. Tierney. Sure. Thank you, Senator, for your question.
    Whistleblowing is clearly the primary role and point of this
    role. And I think as a first step, employees must feel
    comfortable and secure in reporting on bad conduct or
    misconduct. Without the report, there's no investigation to
    monitor and control.
        How I would do that is, some of the current things going
    on. I know there's education, there's training, there's
    mandatory internet training. But I think messaging is very
    important. And coming down from leadership, if confirmed, I
    would work with other senior leaders at VA, career leaders, and
    learn and educate myself about how's the process working? How
    do we know people are comfortable reporting?
        I noticed over the last several years the reports have
    doubled approximately. You could say that's a good thing
    because maybe more people are feeling comfortable reporting.
    You could also say maybe it's not a good thing if there's more
    bad conduct going on. So that's something I would want to
    educate myself on and learn more about. If confirmed to be in
    there, to be able to learn about some information that
    obviously was, is confidential. At this point, I don't have
    access to.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Hassan.

                       HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

        Senator Hassan. Senator. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good
    afternoon to you both. Congratulations to you and your families
    for your nominations, and for your willingness to serve. I'm
    going to start with a question to both of you that I ask now of
    all nominees. If directed by the President to take action that
    would break the law, would you follow the law or the
    President's directive, Mr. Shatswell?
        Mr. Shatswell. I don't believe the President would do that,
    ma'am. But, yes, I would follow the law.
        Senator Hassan. Mr. Tierney?
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I
    similarly don't expect the President to give such a directive,
    but if he did, I will 100 percent always follow the law and
    ethics.
        Senator Hassan. Well, I appreciate your commitment to the
    law. I will say that we are in a war that was illegally
    initiated by this President, and he has refused to follow the
    law in that regard. He has just appointed somebody as Acting
    DNI who has no intelligence experience, even though the law
    clearly says that the DNI has to have such a superior
    experience. And on the symbolic front, the law is very clear
    that he did not have the right to put his name up on the
    Kennedy Center. And a court has just ruled that he broke the
    law in doing that. So, I am concerned that you all, started
    your answer with saying that you don't expect the President,
    this President, to break the law.
        Now, Mr. Tierney, if you're confirmed, you will be
    responsible for, among other things, investigating allegations
    of whistleblower retaliation as well as receiving and
    investigating allegations of misconduct, retaliation or poor
    performance involving senior VA employees. The Trump
    administration has retaliated against federal employees it has
    disagreed with. These are well publicized events, and you've
    been working, as, in your own words, an in-house attorney for
    this Administration. So on the one hand, you've been working
    for this Administration while it has actively and publicly
    retaliated against whistleblowers.
        So, if you're confirmed, how are you going to ensure that
    allegations brought to your office are properly investigated,
    and the VA employees are protected from retaliation, and that
    people have the confidence that if they bring a complaint to
    your office, that they will not be retaliated against?
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, that's a great question.
    If confirmed, I would do everything I can to make sure that all
    VA employees feel comfortable and secure in reporting bad
    conduct. Without the report, we cannot conduct an investigation
    and even analyze the benefits or not of the investigation or
    the quality of investigation. So how do we do that? I know
    currently there are different programs like education,
    training, mandatory tests, but I would do more than that. And
    really the messaging I think is important that it comes down
    from leadership that, this is our role, right?
        Senator Hassan. I appreciate and understand that as I
    appreciated your answer to Senator Tillis. But, look, the
    leader in chief retaliates against people all the time, is very
    public that he sees his role as President or that he has the
    option as President of the United States for retaliating
    against people, including whistleblowers. So, given that he is
    the leader here who sends the most dominating message, how are
    you going to counteract that?
        Mr. Tierney. Well, Senator, you know, I believe or
    understand that I report to the Secretary and to this
    Committee. And again, the role, by definition, is to make sure
    employees feel comfortable whistleblowing, reporting on bad
    conduct and safe that they're not going to be retaliated
    against. And I would do everything to make sure that messaging
    is loud and clear and that is what employees are hearing.
        Senator Hassan. Well, I hope you will consider just what
    the counter messaging from the top is like, and really be
    thoughtful about how, within the VA, you can really support
    whistleblowers. New Hampshire and its Manchester VA had a
    series of whistleblower events now about a decade ago, and they
    were very, very difficult for the whistleblowers involved. The
    whistleblowers actually, their actions, I think, made the
    Manchester VA a better place ultimately because they reported
    things that really needed to be reported. But you are going to
    have your work cut out for you, given the messaging from the
    White House.
        Mr. Shatswell, if you're confirmed, you'll be in charge of
    information and technology at the VA. One area that I've been
    interested in is updating the VA's scheduling capabilities. I
    think you know a little bit about the bill, especially the
    technology behind those capabilities. Right now, veterans, for
    instance, can't do all their scheduling all at once on one
    platform. So, it's phone calls, or internet access to
    scheduling platforms kind of one at a time. And by the time you
    schedule one visit with one specialist, and then you get to the
    next one that day may have, you know, similar appointments on
    the same day, may no longer be available.
        So, Senator Boozman and I have a bill that would require
    the VA to create a self-service scheduling platform that would
    allow veterans to book their VA appointments, all in one easy
    location. Our bill passed the Senate last year, and we're
    working to hopefully get it passed through the House and signed
    into law. If our bill becomes law, will you commit to working
    with my office to implement it and set up an easy, reliable
    platform that veterans can use to schedule all their VA
    appointments?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes.
        Senator Hassan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Moran. I'm going to call on Senator Sheehy next.
    But, Senator King, you are ineligible to speak about technology
    until you learn how to turn off your phone.
        [Laughter.]

                            HON. TIM SHEEHY,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA

        Senator Sheehy. Well, Good afternoon, guys. Congratulations
    on your appointments. And so, Mr. Shatswell, you have a lot of
    IT experience, obviously. And, you know, we've been looking at
    ways that, our care access, whether it's community care or
    direct clinical care, can be provided more rapidly. And make
    sure that when those diagnoses are made and when those
    appointments are referred, it happens in a timely manner,
    doesn't turn into weeks and months of waiting and kind of that
    administrative do loop that happens.
        So, is there a technological reason why the VA could not
    assess at the time that the veterans request for care or
    specialty referral is entered in the system, that a VA facility
    can't provide the requested care within the typical access
    standard and frankly, abide by the law, which requires, you
    know, that treatment to be given in a certain period of time?
        Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator, for the question. The
    answer to that is not a fast answer, but I'll take a swing at
    it. When you look at the data that the VA has, it starts with
    the DoW, and the data flows into the VA a little before
    transition, with some after transition. That data is one way.
    Then that data goes into systems and there are literally
    hundreds of databases. Those hundreds of databases make a very
    complex environment where data is enriched all over the place,
    with one way data feeds that makes it extremely difficult to
    find the connections and do what you're asking about.
        One of the areas of modernizing the VA that I believe we
    need to focus on, I spoke with you, Senator King, about this,
    is we need an enterprise data platform. We need an enterprise
    data exchange where there's one place for the Warfighter Golden
    Record, where all of that data is contained. And it's the one
    system of record that everything points to. So, that those
    kinds of moments, like scheduling, as Senator Hassan said,
    becomes simple. It becomes an easy problem to solve. Right now,
    we have 14 scheduling solutions that I'm aware of. That's just
    unacceptable.
        Senator Sheehy. Yes. And I mean, from the health record
    perspective, I mean, that should become part of discharge.
    Like, we can't discharge a person from active duty until their
    health records have been transferred and received by VHA. So
    that's happened in addition to the disability benefits exam.
    But I think more specifically there, like if a referral enters
    the system on day one.
        So, we're not talking active-duty transition. Someone's out
    there, a veteran. They go into their CBOC to get their
    specialty care. The referral happens on day one. Is there a
    reason why in the current system that we have or system of
    systems, why when that referral happens, it can take days,
    weeks, or months for that referral to make its way through the
    system?
        I mean, is this a community care access problem? Is this an
    administrative issue or is this a technology issue with our IT
    systems that these referrals get lost in the ones and zero land
    forever? And sometimes, it's weeks or months before referrals
    approved?
        Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator. I think that the root of
    the issue is that there isn't one system. There are many
    systems, and they don't talk to each other. So, there is a lot
    of work to build those bridges and to make the data flow. That
    problem has to be solved in order to make what you're asking
    for a reality.
        Senator Sheehy. Yes. Well, it's going to be, I would hope
    it becomes a reductionist enterprise instead of adding more
    layers. Because what government does is when we want to solve a
    problem, we add more layers on top, and what we need to do is
    reduce that. We need to distill the system down to a minimal
    amount, hopefully one singular system that actually works
    instead of just layering more, you know, repaving over the same
    road over and over again. And we're not actually fixing the
    pothole; we're just paving over it.
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. One of my favorite things is
    turning things off. So, my goal would be to turn off as many
    things as possible and reduce the complexity. You also have a
    significant risk with a large cybersecurity and privacy
    perimeter. When you have hundreds of databases, if you can
    reduce them to a single one or reduce the number, it's much,
    much easier to protect. So, there's a lot of reasons, saving
    money, there's a lot of reasons why it makes sense for us to do
    that, sir.
        Senator Sheehy. Mr. Tierney, your community care. So, I'm a
    huge advocate for community care, it hasn't always been the
    most popular with the staff at the VA. But I think especially
    in a state like Montana where we're a huge state with not many
    people, some veterans could have a 7-hour drive to the VA
    clinic. So, community care is a key part of the fabric of VA
    care in Montana. We need to make sure those open lines of
    communication so that when community care is not being
    utilized, community care is being intentionally sidelined
    nationally. You know, those complaints, those reports are
    rapidly collated and acted on.
        And, you know, what can you do to assure me that as those
    whistleblower complaints or those reports come in, you know,
    they're not getting sidelined? They're getting prioritized and
    acted on because community care, as we see a provider shortage
    in all categories around American community care, it's going to
    be critical here for our veterans.
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator. And if I may briefly, I
    recognize your Naval Academy attendance. My son behind me is a
    rising second-class midshipman. And former superintendent Tom
    Lynch is here with me today, too, and I thank him for that.
        Senator Sheehy. There he is. I see him right there. Yes.
    Hey, Tom. How are you, Admiral?
        Mr. Tierney. Community care is very important, and I've
    been researching and planning for this potential role, if
    confirmed. I have heard that from others as well. Obviously,
    some states are much more rural than others. And if confirmed,
    I would talk to the people who are responsible for those areas
    and educate myself as to what's happening and how can we make
    it better. Things like distance, the service level of care. So,
    I would definitely look into that and talk to the people who
    know how it works. Talk to this Committee and see what can we
    do better and different? But 100 percent independence is the
    key to this role, and I'll be completely independent and non-
    partisan on all issues and I appreciate you bringing that one
    up.
        Senator Sheehy. Great. Well, thanks for your time today,
    gentlemen. It's a key time for the VA to modernize and fix a
    lot of problems that have been alluded to that have been
    bothering us for a long time. So let's stop kicking the can and
    get it done. Thanks.
        Chairman Moran. Senator King.

                        HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize to
    everyone for the phone ringing. That's--I can think of worse
    times to have that happen, but not right offhand, in a hearing
    is pretty bad. Mr. Shatswell, just to be clear, your remit does
    not include the electronic medical records project. Is that
    correct?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, that is correct. Senator King.
        Senator King. Has that got its own office and own
    leadership? Is that the way it's set up?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes. I believe the confusion is that
    currently, Deputy Secretary Lawrence, is wearing two hats as
    the deputy and the acting CIO. So, it's gotten a little
    conflated. And when, if confirmed, I step into that role of the
    CIO, yes, it stays with him.
        Senator King. Electronic medical records is somebody else's
    problem----
        Mr. Shatswell. Dr. Neil Evans, correct.
        Senator King. Thank you. I'm going to charge you with
    making your job even more complicated. And that's dealing with
    the Grand Canyon between the Defense Department and the VA and
    how to coordinate systems in that way so that the veteran
    doesn't get lost, doesn't get dropped. Is that a project that
    is worth pursuing in your mind?
        Mr. Shatswell. One hundred percent. I believe that there is
    a lot that we can do there to improve service to active duty
    and veterans. Yes.
        Senator King. And I would hope that you would learn who
    your counterparts were in the department so that, that kind of
    activity could begin.
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. As well as Senators like yourself
    that can help to bridge the gaps.
        Senator King. I'll do what I can. Mr. Tierney, I'm worried
    about sort of counter currents going on here. One is
    whistleblower protection, which you've talked about, and
    investigating claims and protecting whistleblowers. And yet at
    the same time last year, it was reported that the VA was
    requiring their employees to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement
    (NDA) that did not include the legally required exclusion
    language for whistleblowers. Are you aware of that situation?
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you. Senator, I have read reports about
    that.
        Senator King. Well, I would hope that if there's another--
    the OPM, just in the last week or so has talked about new
    whistleblower, I'm sorry, new non-disclosure agreements
    throughout the Federal Government. Have you reviewed the
    language that's being proposed?
        Mr. Tierney. I have not, Senator King, but I will 100
    percent say that NDAs and whistleblower activity have no role
    together. People, employees must feel 100 percent comfortable
    that they are not going to be restricted in reporting on bad
    conduct.
        Senator King. Well, I would hope as the legal counsel in
    this situation, that you would inform whoever's setting up
    these NDAs that that language must be in there that says, this
    does not include whistleblower complaints and the protections
    are left intact. Will you commit to me that you'll do that?
        Mr. Tierney. Yes, Senator. And it's also on OAWP's website.
    It's very clear that any whistleblower statute overrides any
    type of NDA language, and I agree with that. There's no role
    for NDAs and whistleblower.
        Senator King. I agree, thank you. I'm a little concerned.
    You were general counsel to USAID in the State Department? Was
    that your job title?
        Mr. Tierney. I was acting general counsel at USAID. I'm
    deputy legal advisor at State, which is another way to say
    deputy general counsel.
        Senator King. And just to clarify, were you in that
    position when Elon Musk fed USAID into the wood chipper?
        Mr. Tierney. No, sir, I was not.
        Senator King. You were not there during that period?
        Mr. Tierney. I was not.
        Senator King. Is it legal for the Executive to abolish a
    statutorily established agency unilaterally?
        Mr. Tierney. Senator, I appreciate the question, but I
    really have not researched that legal issue, and I really
    wouldn't be able to comment on that.
        Senator King. You've read the Constitution. You know, the
    law that Congress establishes the Executive branch agencies.
    You don't have an opinion on whether the Executive can just
    say, well, we don't--we no longer believe we need a USAID, or a
    Department of Labor, or whatever. You don't think that you
    don't have an opinion on that?
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator. Yes. I just am not
    familiar with the laws governing that type of issue. I've never
    had to research it. I never have. So----
        Senator King. And finally, you mentioned the word
    ``independently'' several times. What do you mean by the use of
    that term?
        Mr. Tierney. Well, sir, Senator, some of the questions from
    both Committees have centered on, you know, if there's any
    influence or improper influence. And I just want to be clear
    that that's not acceptable. It's not appropriate in this role.
    This role is about independence, transparency, and quality of
    an investigation and responsiveness and timeliness.
        Senator King. So you would act independently, even if the
    whistleblower complaint was uncomfortable to the Secretary or
    to the President. Is that correct?
        Mr. Tierney. I would give the Secretary my recommendation
    regardless of what his response may be. I--that's my job is to
    report to him what our investigation finds.
        Senator King. Well, I just I appreciate those answers. The
    whistleblower function is very important in counterintuitive
    that we're enabling people to bring complaints against their
    superiors in many cases. And that's why the position that you
    have is so important, not only to protect those individuals,
    but to make the government function better. That's the whole
    idea here. So, I take you at your word that independence is
    going to be part of your job, and that you're going to protect
    those whistleblowers, even if their activities have displeased
    their superiors and perhaps your superiors.
        Mr. Tierney. Senator, no role is above accountability, in
    my opinion. Whether, regardless of how senior that role is.
    OAWP is here to protect all veterans, regardless of the
    seniority level of the subject at the time.
        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you. Mr. Shatswell, since assuming
    the senior advisor role in December, have you used that
    opportunity to assess the circumstances, the current state of
    affairs at the Office of Information and Technology?
        Mr. Shatswell. To some degree, I would say very opaquely.
    From a senior leadership level, I have reviewed the structure
    of the organization. I have had the opportunity to travel and
    to see some of the technology working in the different
    locations, the VISNs, the Sim lab down in Orlando. So, I've had
    the opportunity to assess it from that level. Yes.
        Chairman Moran. I would think it might be a circumstance in
    which you get the legal pad out and yellow pages, and you just
    start writing one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
    These are the problems and these are my ideas. Have you
    analyzed what your first step, day one and thereafter, would be
    in this role?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. As you can imagine, it's a target-
    rich environment. There's a lot to fix. There's a lot that can
    be very distracting, and so as I have had the opportunity and
    this time of envisioning, I've kind of broken it up into two
    categories. One, we'll call it organizational and the other
    more on the technical side. On the organizational side, there
    is a significant need for a proper program management office. I
    call it a program or portfolio value office, because at the end
    of the day, we need to be driving the right value to the
    veterans. And that's the focus of everything that we should be
    doing at OIT.
        So how do we do that? Getting into an agile scrum process,
    which is a process management style, that we will properly tool
    and train throughout the org., if confirmed. That will drive
    accountability at the individual worker level. It will drive
    visibility at the stakeholder level so that everyone knows
    what's going on and what's the status and the priority of their
    piece within the work that OIT is doing. So, eyes wide open,
    anybody can see it. It's not a mystery. That's what we would be
    driving toward.
        Chairman Moran. Have you yet talked to people within the
    OIT that work there today, work with you at the VA today and
    ask them their views on what's missing? Senator Tillis and
    Senator Sheehy both indicated the magnitude of the problems.
    We've heard them for a long time. Senator Tillis, in
    particular, talked about nothing seems to change. So, I'm
    looking for this. I'm the guy who's going to make things
    change. And here's what I know that needs to be done and I'm
    going to hit the ground running. Can you assure me that you
    have done that and are that person?
        Mr. Shatswell. One thousand percent Senator. That has been
    my career experience for the last 30 plus years of executive
    technology management. That's what I do. I fix problems. I love
    the gnarly ones, the ones that are really hard, the ones that
    are really tough. I love the puzzles because I like to effect
    change.
        Chairman Moran. If that's true, you're going to love this
    job.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Moran. Let me ask Mr. Shatswell. Again, I'm
    intrigued by you being a senior adviser to the Secretary. I'm
    intrigued not because of you personally, but it's been the role
    that so many people have been in who come before our Committee
    seeking their--they've received a nomination seeking our
    agreement with that nomination and confirmation. How many
    people are senior advisors to the Secretary of the Department
    of Veterans Affairs?
        Mr. Shatswell. Sir, I'm sorry, I don't have a number. I
    don't know the number.
        Chairman Moran. Is it two, or three, or is it dozens?
        Mr. Shatswell. No, I don't believe it's dozens. It's a
    handful, I believe.
        Chairman Moran. How did you become a senior advisor?
        Mr. Shatswell. I was--I was working for Unilever. I was
    approached with the opportunity to come and be a senior advisor
    within, I believe it was three weeks. I was here----
        Chairman Moran. Approached by the Secretary?
        Mr. Shatswell. No, from the White House. White House
    liaison.
        Chairman Moran. And was that the suggestion that if you
    became a senior advisor that there might be a role for you to
    play at the VA beyond being a senior advisor?
        Mr. Shatswell. That was a possibility, sir.
        Chairman Moran. And is that the Administration's, does it
    seem to you that's the Administration's training ground for
    individuals that they may want to place within the Department?
    Come, be the senior advisor let us evaluate you and make a
    determination whether there's a role for you to play in a more
    permanent way at the VA?
        Mr. Shatswell. I can tell you my experience that was the
    way that it was. Beyond that, I don't have the experience to
    know what that would look like for other folks.
        Chairman Moran. And as a senior adviser at the Department
    of Veterans Affairs, do you advise the Secretary like daily,
    weekly, monthly? Is it an ongoing thing or you're really there
    learning about the Department of Veterans Affairs and preparing
    for a future position?
        Mr. Shatswell. A little bit of both. I was absolutely
    there, meeting with the Secretary on a couple of occasions to
    provide advice and suggestions into what I was learning and the
    ideations from that, with the opportunity to sit in on meetings
    and meet the senior leadership and understand the way that the
    VA works.
        Chairman Moran. And the advice that you were asked to
    provide to the Secretary was related to the job that you're now
    being considered for?
        Mr. Shatswell. No, sir. It was a broader. Looking at--my
    background, Senator Moran is, I've been over marketing, I've
    been over finance, I've been over renovation, I've been in
    technology, so the breadth of my background was bringing all of
    that into play, to evaluate everything that was going on. And
    with my lens coming in as an industry person, not as a
    government person, gives a unique perspective to the problems
    that often, I would say, suffer from shortsightedness because
    often decisions are made from a political standpoint and not a
    long-term true North plan. And so, from my perspective, I'm
    working to develop what would be that long-term plan so that we
    have a true North over multiple administrations in the future.
        Chairman Moran. I'll now turn to Mr. Tierney. OAWP is
    responsible for tracking the VA's compliance with
    recommendations from the inspector general, the VA's medical
    inspector, the Office of Special Counsel and the GAO, the
    Government Accounting Office. So that's in addition to the
    whistleblower aspect that we've mostly been talking about
    today. Do you have a view about the role that those entities
    play in improving the services and capabilities, the quality of
    work performed at the Department of Veterans Affairs?
        Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator Moran, for that question.
    Yes, you know, I've read and understand that OAWP, OSC, and OIG
    have an interplay between the three groups as far as handling
    misconduct and, as far as doing these reports, as you say. And
    I would work cooperatively with both of those other sub-
    agencies on making sure that all of our reporting is accurate,
    timely, and in the right hands of the right person.
        Chairman Moran. Mr. Tierney, I would indicate that while I
    can only speak for myself, but I have enough experience with
    the Members of this Committee to have a sense, and it's
    certainly my sense that this Committee pays a lot of attention
    to the Inspector General, the GAO. We consider their reports
    serious and significant. We expect them to be abided by, and if
    not, we expect an explanation for why what they're recommending
    is not accomplishable or shouldn't be accomplished; they're
    making a mistake.
        I don't know that there's a question in that, but I want
    you, if confirmed, to take--maybe the question is, I want you
    to confirm that you will take those recommendations by those
    other agencies seriously, and with an understanding that there
    is an expectation, at least on my part, and I think most, if
    not all Members of this Committee, that we would see decisions
    made at the VA that reflect what the, what those agencies, what
    those entities have recommended. Anything that troubles you
    with that circumstance?
        Mr. Tierney. No, Senator, not at all. I completely agree.
    That's a key role of the Assistant Secretary responsibility.
        Chairman Moran. And I would tell you that they're not
    always followed quickly and not always followed, period. And, I
    would indicate to you that in communicating with, particularly
    the staff of this Committee, but the members as well, it would
    be useful for us to know that you find an objection to a
    recommendation by the IG or the GAO, particularly the IG, that
    you ought to let us know. And, I assume that's compatible with
    the way you operate.
        Mr. Tierney. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Moran. Along that line, let me ask you to commit
    to providing this Committee with briefings on a quarterly basis
    on OAWP's trends, your accomplishments, the ongoing priorities,
    including case processing times and disciplinary actions taken.
    Is that satisfactory?
        Mr. Tierney. Yes, Senator. Absolutely.
        Chairman Moran. And I would ask you, Mr. Shatswell, a
    really similar question to that. I'd like for you to commit to
    providing the Committee with briefings on a quarterly basis, at
    least, on OIT trends, accomplishments, ongoing priorities to
    include workforce changes, cybersecurity threats, and major
    modernization projects. Is that acceptable to you?
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator. I would hope it would be much
    more frequent than that.
        Chairman Moran. While Senator Tillis volunteered to serve
    on a committee to give you advice on how to fix the department,
    I would stay, I would refrain from me volunteering to join you
    in that effort, but I want to know what you're doing and how
    it's going and what help you need from us. And what's the
    missing link in finally accomplishing the things that Members
    around this table have indicated are important to get the VA
    quote ``once and for all'' in a position that needs to be in
    regard to IT.
        Mr. Shatswell. You have my commitment to that, sir.
        Chairman Moran. Senator King.
        Senator King. A quick follow up. Mr. Tierney, during the
    nomination process, did anyone indicate to you that there was
    an intention to weaken or eliminate OAWP?
        Mr. Tierney. No, Senator.
        Senator King. No, no discussion of that?
        Mr. Tierney. Not at all.
        Senator King. Would you resist and support the office, as
    its director, if there were efforts made to cut staff or reduce
    the efficacy of the office?
        Mr. Tierney. Senator King, I believe the office has an
    important role in within VA. As far as staff, obviously, I
    don't have visibility into the function yet, but if confirmed,
    I would analyze that and see if we need more people, need less
    people. I just don't have an eye into that yet, sir.
        Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Sheehy, anything?
        Senator Sheehy. [Off-mic].
        Chairman Moran. Thank you both for being here today. We're
    going to conclude this hearing. And there may be questions that
    we, this Committee, that staff want to ask you. They'll be
    submitted to you in writing, and we would expect a timely
    response from you. We have the leverage of holding your
    confirmation until we get the answers to our questions.
        Chairman Moran. But let me ask either one of you, which is
    my usual practice, is there something that you said that you
    wish you hadn't or that you would like to say that you weren't
    given the opportunity to say, having heard our questions and
    now see the totality of the hearing? Are you satisfied with
    where you are?
        Mr. Tierney. I am, Senator.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you.
        Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator. Thank you.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you both very much. With that, the
    hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 5:22 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

                               Opening Statement

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                         Nomination Material for

                                 GARY SHATSWELL

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                            Nomination Material for

                                MICHAEL TIERNEY

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

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