[Senate Hearing 119-417]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                      S. Hrg. 119-417

                          EXPERIENCE MATTERS:
                       SENIORS AND THE WORKFORCE
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS


                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

                             MARCH 25, 2026

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-27

         Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]         


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                              __________
                              
                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-837 PDF                    WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
                              
                       SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                     RICK SCOTT, Florida, Chairman

DAVE McCORMICK, Pennsylvania         KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York
JIM JUSTICE, West Virginia           ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama            MARK KELLY, Arizona
RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin               RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia
ASHLEY MOODY, Florida                ANDY KIM, New Jersey
JON HUSTED, Ohio                     ANGELA ALSOBRO, soS, Maryland
                              ----------                              
                McKinley Lewis, Majority Staff Director
                Claire Descamps, Minority Staff Director
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Senator Rick Scott, Chairman................     1
Opening Statement of Senator Kirsten E. Gillibrand, Ranking 
  Member.........................................................     3

                           PANEL OF WITNESSES

Rachel Greszler, Senior Research Fellow, Economics and Workforce, 
  Advancing American Freedom, Washington, D.C....................     4
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr., SHRM-SCP, President and CEO, SHRM, 
  Alexandria, Virginia...........................................     6
Jason Fichtner, Ph.D., Senior Fellow, National Academy of Social 
  Insurance, Washington, D.C.....................................     8
Dan Adcock, Director of Government Relations and Policy, National 
  Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, Washington, 
  D.C............................................................    10

                                APPENDIX
                      Prepared Witness Statements

Rachel Greszler, Senior Research Fellow, Economics and Workforce, 
  Advancing American Freedom, Washington, D.C....................    30
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr., SHRM-SCP, President and CEO, SHRM, 
  Alexandria, Virginia...........................................    40
Jason Fichtner, Ph.D., Senior Fellow, National Academy of Social 
  Insurance, Washington, D.C.....................................    55
Dan Adcock, Director of Government Relations and Policy, National 
  Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, Washington, 
  D.C............................................................    69

                        Questions for the Record

Rachel Greszler, Senior Research Fellow, Economics and Workforce, 
  Advancing American Freedom, Washington, D.C....................    79
Jason Fichtner, Ph.D., Senior Fellow, National Academy of Social 
  Insurance, Washington, D.C.....................................    81
Dan Adcock, Director of Government Relations and Policy, National 
  Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, Washington, 
  D.C............................................................    84

                       Statements for the Record

AARP Statement...................................................    90
Alliance for Retired Americans Statement.........................    97
American Psychological Association Statement.....................   100
Bipartisan Policy Center Statement...............................   106
Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget Statement.............   112
SSA Office of the Inspector General Statement....................   113

 
                          EXPERIENCE MATTERS:
                       SENIORS AND THE WORKFORCE

                              ----------                              


                       Wednesday, March 25, 2026

                                        U.S. Senate
                                 Special Committee on Aging
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:38 p.m., Room 
216, Hart Senate Office Building, Hon. Rick Scott, Chairman of 
the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senator Scott, Moody, Gillibrand, Warren, and Kim.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
                      RICK SCOTT, CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. The U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging 
will now come to order. In December, this Committee highlighted 
the positive impact that having a purpose and engaging with the 
community has on older Americans.
    Witnesses shared powerful testimonies and firsthand 
accounts about how staying engaged, whether through 
volunteering, mentoring, or taking on new responsibilities, 
helps seniors live a happier, healthier life with a renewed 
purpose and goal for their next chapter. Not only is this kind 
of activity enriching and beneficial to seniors, but also it 
helps their communities too.
    In our December hearing, we just spoke about the many, many 
ways older Americans strengthen the U.S. economy, thanks to the 
expertise and perspective they bring to the job. The truth is 
that retirement doesn't have to be the end of one's career. For 
many, it is the start of a new, purpose driven chapter in their 
lives.
    Seniors can and should use this time to chase and reach new 
goals and dreams. Maybe try the new hobby they hadn't had time 
for in the past. Start a business doing odd jobs around their 
neighborhood. Volunteer at their church, or even substitute 
teach at their grandkids' school.
    In all of these things and more, seniors offer valuable 
insight because they have lived a full life of experiences and 
knowledge that can be passed on to the next generation. 
However, in that hearing, witnesses also shared some of the 
challenges members of our aging community face when their goals 
and dreams involve continuing to work, or if they are going 
back to work full or part time.
    In today's hearing, we will look more closely at what these 
challenges are and how Government is making it worse. The fact 
is, there are laws on the books that penalize older workers 
unfairly. The Retirement Earnings Test is one of them. This 
test punishes workers between the ages of 62 and 66 who start 
to claim their benefits, benefits they are absolutely entitled 
to and have earned.
    It essentially takes $1 of their benefits away for every $2 
they earn once their income hits $24,000 a year. The retirement 
earning test was passed during the Great Depression 
specifically to push older Americans out of the workforce and 
free up more jobs for younger Americans but as we are all 
aware, it is not the 1930's anymore, and we shouldn't expect 
our seniors to be punished today by outdated policies passed 
then. Aging Americans deserve better.
    That is why I have introduced the Senior Citizens Freedom 
to Work Act, along with my friend and fellow committee member, 
Senator Tuberville. Our bill will get rid of the unfair 
Retirement Earnings Test so that seniors who want to stay in 
the workforce can do so without being punished or robbed of 
their hard-earned benefits but we need to do more than that.
    Even if we get the RET repealed, seniors still face 
mountains of administrative red tape to get information on how 
their benefits are impacted by--when they retire. The same red 
tape also makes it hard for seniors to decide when they should 
start withdrawing their benefits. Many Americans don't realize 
that when they start withdrawing could actually impact how much 
they will be entitled to.
    This not only affects our seniors retiring today, but all 
Americans who are actively planning for their future. We 
shouldn't be making it more difficult for our seniors or future 
seniors to find the information they need to make the best 
choices for themselves and their families. We should make it 
easy, straightforward, and transparent so all Americans can 
make the decisions as they plan for retirement.
    That is why I co-sponsored the Claiming Age Clarity Act, 
which also has the support of two of my colleagues on this 
Committee, Ranking Member Gillibrand and Senator Warnock. This 
bill would give seniors better and more straightforward 
information about how their Social Security benefits change 
based on when they retire and when they start claiming their 
hard-earned benefits.
    The fact is workers aged 55 or older have been the fastest 
growing age group in the labor force for more than two decades. 
In 1994, they made up just 10 percent of the workforce. In 
2022, 24 percent. People are living longer, staying healthier, 
and wanting to keep working and giving back to their 
communities and pursuing new goals and challenges. If our 
seniors want to stay at work, we should be empowering them and 
giving them all the information they need so they know what 
that means for their future.
    It is not the government's job to tell Americans when they 
should stop working or when they should claim their benefits 
and it is definitely not the Governments' role to punish those 
who want to continue their careers later in life. Government 
should be working for our aging population, not against it. We 
should be giving our seniors transparent information and ample 
freedom to choose what is best for them.
    We should not penalize hard-working Americans for 
continuing to work after they reach retirement age. Because at 
the end of the day, it is older Americans who bring the 
experience and expertise necessary to get the job done.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about 
how we can get Government out of the way, inject transparency, 
and make seniors have the information and freedom they need to 
make their later years their best years. Now I will turn it 
over to Ranking Member Gillibrand.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR 
             KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, RANKING MEMBER

    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was very 
well said. I appreciate your hearing--calling this hearing 
today, and I would like to extend a special thank you to our 
witnesses for sharing your stories, expertise, and knowledge 
with us today. We can't make these decisions without the input 
from our constituents and smart experts like you, so we are 
very grateful for the collaboration.
    As mentioned by the Chairman, when we look at the U.S. 
census demographic data, approximately 65 million Americans, or 
nearly 20 percent of the Nation's population, are currently 
over the age of 65, and that population is continuing to grow. 
By 2040, we expect one in five Americans will be 65.
    The U.S. workforce is rapidly changing. According to GAO, 
older workers now represent nearly a quarter of our total 
workforce, a growing share that reflects broader demographic 
shifts but for that reason, we must evaluate our programs. We 
have to evaluate our rules and our laws, and make sure that 
both employees and workers can navigate today's environment.
    Since the 1930's, Social Security has provided the 
financial security to retirees and protected individuals 
against risks like disability and death. Today, 74 million 
Americans rely on Social Security benefits, and 184 workers pay 
into the system. One of the biggest retirement decisions 
Americans make is when to claim their Social Security.
    That decision gets even more complex for seniors 
considering collecting Social Security while also working, 
particularly because of the program's Retirement Earnings Test. 
Certainly, there are lessons to be learned from the successful 
bipartisan reform in 2000, while the congressional record also 
points to budgetary and poverty issues that we also have to 
evaluate.
    Rising costs are forcing many older adults across the 
country to remain employed or to consider returning to work. 
For many, this is not a life choice but is--it is not a 
lifestyle choice. It is an economic necessity driven by the 
skyrocketing cost of healthcare, housing, groceries, and 
utilities and when these individuals decide to reenter the 
workforce, they can face real barriers like age discrimination, 
the need to develop new skills, and other challenges that make 
it harder for older adults to live financially secure, 
independent lives.
    These individuals, like all Americans, deserve seamless 
access to the Social Security Administration but my 
constituents are telling me otherwise. They report long wait 
times, both on the phone and for in-person appointments, 
difficulty finding out whether field offices are even open, and 
significant delays in obtaining those answers. This is 
happening at an agency that has cut nearly 7,000 staff since 
the start of 2025, marking the largest workforce reduction in 
the Social Security Administration history.
    I will continue to fight on behalf of my constituents for 
an agency that functions well, treats its workers fairly, and 
provides employees the training they need to properly serve the 
American people. There are many solutions that Congress can 
undertake to support our seniors' economic resilience.
    I am also committed to strengthening--I am also committed 
to strengthening and protecting Social Security while also 
supporting older adults in the workforce by banning forced 
arbitration in cases of age discrimination, which can be 
achieved through a bill I have, the Protecting Older Americans 
Act.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about our 
Nation's work and retirement landscape. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Gillibrand. That is 
awesome. Great to work with you. I would like to welcome our 
witnesses to today's hearing. They are experts in workforce and 
retirement policy and are here to discuss the important role 
older Americans play in today's workforce. First, I would like 
to introduce Rachel Greszler.
    Rachel is a Senior Research Fellow in the Plymouth 
Institute for Free Enterprise and Advancing American Freedom, 
AAF, and a Visiting Fellow in Workforce at the Economic Policy 
Innovation Center. Prior to joining AAF, she spent 12 years as 
a Senior Research Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, and 
previously served for seven years as Senior Economist on the 
staff of the Joint Economic Committee of the U.S. Congress.
    She is recognized as an economic expert in workforce, 
Social Security, pensions, family policy, fiscal policy. I want 
to thank you for being here for the third time. Your expertise 
is clearly very much appreciated here. Please begin your 
testimony. Nice to see you.

         STATEMENT OF RACHEL GRESZLER, SENIOR RESEARCH

           FELLOW, ECONOMICS AND WORKFORCE, ADVANCING

               AMERICAN FREEDOM, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Ms. Greszler. Thank you, Chairman Scott and Ranking Member 
Gillibrand for the opportunity to be here today. In my 
testimony I would like to review the role of older Americans in 
the workforce, and then explain a simple and pro-growth 
proposal to support instead of penalize older working 
Americans.
    Older workers are the fastest growing segment of the labor 
force accounting for three-quarters of total employment growth 
since 2000. While part of this rise is due to the sheer number 
of the aging Baby Boomers, older Americans' labor force 
participation rates have increased six percentage points, even 
as younger people's participation rates have declined.
    Today's seniors are redefining what retirement looks like. 
Rather than a one-time permanent exit from the workforce, about 
half of Americans are choosing non-traditional retirement 
paths, including transitioning to more flexible part-time or 
independent work, as well as un-retiring, by coming back into 
the workforce after an initial exit. This shift reflects new 
opportunities and changing preferences.
    Americans are living longer, healthier lives, and many want 
to remain engaged and productive and doing so provides 
physical, mental, and financial benefits. At the same time, 
flexible and independent work arrangements have made it easier 
for older Americans to continue working in the ways that work 
for them.
    Older workers' positive contributions cannot be 
understated, especially amidst cultural shifts that cry out for 
older generations to impart their wisdom, experience, and 
resilience to younger generations. Yet certain Government 
policies make it harder for seniors who want to continue 
working to do so.
    One policy in particular directly penalizes them. That is 
Social Security's Retirement Earnings Test, which is a relic of 
the Great Depression when policymakers wanted to push older 
Americans out of the workforce to try to free up jobs for 
younger workers. Today, we want and need older workers. While 
the Retirement Earnings Test is little known and often 
misunderstood, it functions like an initial 50 percent tax.
    For individuals who first claim Social Security benefits 
before their normal retirement age, which is going to be 67 
next year--and this is what most people do to claim benefits 
early--they lose $1 in benefits for every $2 that they earn 
over the limit of about $24,500 per year.
    This results in, for example, a marginal tax rate of 74 
percent for somebody who is making $29,000, and a marginal 
taxpayer 84 percent for somebody who is making $70,000. Not 
surprisingly, studies show that this causes people to work less 
and earn less than they would otherwise choose.
    While those lost benefits are gradually added back into 
recipients' monthly checks after they reach the full retirement 
age, most people don't know that, and they perceive the test as 
a pure tax and subsequently reduce their earnings or stop 
working altogether. Moreover, individuals with lower life 
expectancies typically don't recoup all or sometimes any of 
those loss benefits.
    The earnings test is also confusing for seniors, and it 
costs the Social Security Administration $70 million per year 
to administer, and this includes hundreds of thousands of 
improper payments issued through it.
    Now, if somebody wants to stop working at age 62, that 
should be their choice but unlike their Great Depression era 
counterparts, today's older workers shouldn't be ushered into 
an early exit by an outdated Social Security provision. Ending 
Social Security's Retirement Earnings Test, as Senator Scott's 
Senior Citizens Freedom to Work Act of 2026 would do, is a win-
win.
    In addition to erasing confusion and administrative 
burdens, I estimate that it would add up to one million workers 
to the labor force and increase personal income by up to $66 
billion per year. That extra work and earnings would generate 
up to $18 billion in annual tax revenues, including an 
additional $8 billion per year for Social Security, which would 
modestly extend the program's solvency.
    The last time that Congress addressed the Retirement 
Earnings Test by eliminating it for everybody above the full 
retirement age, the bill passed with 100 percent bipartisan 
support and now that the retirement age is almost 67, it is 
affecting millions more seniors.
    Americans of all ages should have the freedom to work, and 
Social Security recipients should not have their benefits taken 
away because they are positively contributing to the workforce. 
In summary, many older Americans are already leading the way 
with their continued contributions.
    Policymakers should clear the path for current and future 
seniors to remain engaged by removing outdated barriers and 
supporting flexible work. Ending the Retirement Earnings Test 
is a practical and pro-growth place to start. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Rachel. Thanks for being back. 
Okay, next we have Johnny Taylor. He is the President and Chief 
Executive Officer of the Society for Human Resources 
Management.
    His career spans more than 20 years as a lawyer, human 
rights--human resources executive, and CEO in both the not-for-
profit and for-profit spaces. Thanks for be here. Please begin 
your testimony.

              STATEMENT OF JOHNNY C. TAYLOR, JR.,

               SHRM-SCP, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SHRM,

                      ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA

    Mr. Taylor. Thank you, Chairman Scott and Ranking Member 
Gillibrand. Thank you for this opportunity to testify today. 
Let me begin with a sort of simple reality, America's workforce 
is changing. We have all talked about it. The fact of the 
matter is we know it. You have pointed out that in 1994, about 
12 percent of Americans in the workforce were age 65 and older.
    Today, that is closer to 20 percent. We also know a 
shocking stat, that I often tell people, that the fastest 
growing segment of the U.S. workforce are people 75 and older. 
Not just 65--75 and older, albeit on a smaller base, but the 
fact of the matter is people are working longer, much longer 
and this is not a temporary trend. It is a structural shift, 
and it requires us to rethink how we approach work and 
retirement. First, as you have all pointed out, this is good 
for people.
    At SHRM, where we represent approximately 340,000 members 
across the country in every industry, we are seeing a clear 
shift. People are not just working longer because they have 
to--there are some--but they are working longer because they 
want to. Because work provides more than a paycheck. It 
provides purpose, as you pointed out, Mr. Chairman, and 
connection.
    Research consistently shows that older adults who remain 
engaged in work, they experience better mental and physical 
health outcomes, including lower rates of depression and 
stronger cognitive function. Why? Because work keeps people 
connected and engaged so when we talk about extending workforce 
participation, we are not just talking about economics.
    We are talking about quality of life and dignity. Second, 
this is sort of good for employers, really good for employees. 
Latest JOLTS report says we have 6.9 million open jobs in 
America. Nearly seven in ten organizations report difficulty 
filling roles, and yet one of the most capable talent pools in 
America is often overlooked, experienced workers.
    At the SHRM Foundation, our philanthropic arm, we call this 
untapped talent--skilled individuals, including older workers, 
who are often overlooked, and we actually need them in the 
workplace. This is not just a social good, it is a business 
advantage.
    Research shows that companies with more workers over age 50 
are more productive, believe it or not. In fact, increasing the 
share of workers aged 50 and older by just 10 percent is 
associated with a 1.1 percent gain in productivity, 
contributing to stronger economic growth and higher GDP per 
capita and SHRM data reinforces this.
    Over 80 percent of H.R. professionals say older workers 
bring exceptional reliability and expertise, and more than 90 
percent--and by the way, you don't get 90 percent of H.R. 
people to agree on anything--say they perform as well or better 
than other employees. Now, in a labor market defined by 
uncertainty, experienced workers provide consistency, judgment, 
and stability.
    We are already seeing what this looks like in practice. At 
Publix, a Florida based company, where I am a Floridian--a 95-
year-old associate that works alongside colleagues of all ages. 
That gentleman is helping model service and mentorship that 
strengthens the entire team and at MasterCard in New York, 
reverse mentoring programs pair younger employees with senior 
leaders, creating a two way learning that blends experience 
with new perspectives.
    My friends, these are not exceptions. They are signals of 
what is possible when we treat experience as an asset but our 
systems simply have not kept up and you have heard this a lot. 
Too often, workplace practices and policies still reflect 
outdated assumptions that retirement is a single moment, that 
contribution declines with age.
    Today's workers want flexibility. They want phased 
retirement and opportunities to continue contributing in ways 
that fit their lives and when we don't provide these options, 
we are not just timing individuals or limiting individuals. We 
are limiting our economy and that is why this alignment 
matters.
    Let me close with this. The talent is here, the experience 
is proven, and the opportunity is ours to unlock. If we support 
flexibility, invest in lifelong learning, and remove barriers 
to continued work, we strengthen both our workforce and our 
economy, because in America, talent does not expire, it 
evolves. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    The Chairman. Good job. Thanks for being here. Publix is a 
great company.
    Mr. Taylor. Yes, it is. Great State of Florida.
    Senator Gillibrand. We love Publix in Florida.
    The Chairman. Yes. I think it is our--yes, it is clearly 
our biggest employer now.
    Mr. Taylor. That is right.
    The Chairman. Yes. All right, our next witness, Dr. Jason 
Fichtner. He is the Executive Director of the LIMRA Retirement 
Income Institute, previously served as the Acting Deputy 
commissioner of the Social Security Administration--a nice, 
easy job--and their Chief Economist.
    His area of expertise focused on Social Security, federal 
tax policy, federal budget policy, retirement security, and 
policy proposals to increase saving and investment. Thanks for 
being here. Please begin your testimony.

           STATEMENT OF JASON FICHTNER, PH.D, SENIOR

                  FELLOW, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF

               SOCIAL INSURANCE, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Dr. Fichtner. Good afternoon, Chairman Scott, Ranking 
Member Gillibrand. Thank you for inviting me to testify today. 
Again, my name is Jason Fichtner. I am also a Senior Fellow at 
the National Academy of Social Insurance, as well as a Senior 
Policy Fellow at The Center for Social Development at the Brown 
School of Washington University in St. Louis.
    As Chairman Scott mentioned, the Executive Director of the 
LIMRA Retirement Institute. I am also on the Board of Directors 
for the FINRA Investor Education Foundation, and a Member of 
the Puerto Rico Pension Reserve Trust, where I serve on both 
the Pension Benefits Council and the Pension Reserve Board and 
as mentioned, I previously served in several positions at the 
Social Security Administration, including the Deputy 
Commissioner of Social Security and Chief Economist. All 
opinions I express today are my own and do not necessarily 
reflect the views of any organization with which I am 
affiliated.
    I want to also thank Chairman Scott and Ranking Member 
Gillibrand for your leadership in ensuring that important 
public policy issues involving aging and Social Security get 
the attention and the debate they deserve, and that ideas and 
viewpoints from all sides are aired in a collegial, productive, 
and respectful manner. It is truly a privilege for me to 
testify before this Committee today.
    My testimony today focuses primarily on the importance of 
reducing confusion around the Social Security Claiming Decision 
related to Retirement Earnings Test, or RET, and the 
nomenclature that Social Security Administration uses to 
describe the various ages at which a beneficiary can claim 
retirement benefits. One of the key financial decisions facing 
older Americans is when to claim Social Security retirement 
benefits, as Ranking Member Gillibrand mentioned.
    In fact, when to claim Social Security may be the most 
important retirement decision someone will make. While these 
benefits are available as early as age 62, claiming later 
permanently raises monthly benefits, with the maximum benefit 
available to those who claim at age 70. Delaying claiming is 
thus equivalent to purchasing a greater inflation adjusted 
annuity that will be paid for as long as the beneficiary lives.
    Most people, however, do not claim Social Security at their 
optimal age, usually because they claim too early. Research 
demonstrates that many people lack the financial education and 
understanding to make complex financial decisions, including 
about risks in retirement. The information people receive and 
the form it takes can also influence how people make financial 
choices.
    For example, with respect to the claiming decision, people 
act differently to the framing of age 62 as the early 
eligibility age than they would if we framed claiming at age 62 
as a penalty that results in lower monthly benefits for the 
rest of your life. In 2008, when I was at SSA, and based on 
research, we removed the so called break even analysis from use 
by claims representatives when talking to the public about when 
to claim Social Security because we recognized that the framing 
was potentially biasing people toward early claiming.
    We want the public to have necessary information education 
presented--sorry, necessary information education presented in 
a manner so that they can make informed decisions. We changed 
this because it was very important. As provided in detail in my 
written testimony, I hope to lead the Committee with the 
following takeaways.
    First, the Retirement Earnings Test is overly confusing and 
should be eliminated or at least rebranded to better educate 
the public about its rules to clear up considerable confusion 
about the relationships between working and claiming retirement 
benefits. Second, the official names of claiming ages that SSA 
uses should be changed to better reflect the implications of 
claiming decisions.
    For example, SSA could rename the early eligibility age, 
the minimum monthly benefit age, and age 70 as the maximum 
monthly benefit age. Third, when thinking about framing, a 
phrase I would like for retirement security is, "income is the 
outcome."
    We need to modernize the traditional three-legged stool to 
bring the concept into the current age by focusing on how we 
can promote additional income in retirement, which includes 
reducing barriers for those who want and are able to continue 
doing so and working in their later years.
    Along with reducing confusion in the Social Security 
claiming decision, this includes reducing the barriers for 
seniors to continue working in the later years. Fundamentally, 
claiming Social Security does not mean one needs to stop 
working, nor does stopping work mean one must claim Social 
Security at the same time. Many people will either want or need 
to continue working and saving into their later years.
    Public policy should be designed to allow them to do so. 
Thank you again for providing me with the opportunity to 
testify today, and I look forward to answering your questions.
    The Chairman. Thanks for being here. Let me turn it over to 
Senator Kim to introduce the next witness.
    Senator Kim. Yes. Thank you, Chairman Scott. I want to move 
to introduce our next witness, Dan Adcock. Mr. Adcock is the 
Director of Government Relations and Policy for the National 
Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare. Previously, 
Mr. Adcock served as Legislative Director at the National 
Active and Retired Federal Employees Association.
    During his time there in September 2000, he helped to 
create the Federal Long Term Care Insurance Program and 
advocated on behalf of beneficiaries enrolled in the Social 
Security, Medicare, and Medicaid programs.
    Mr. Adcock also served as a Professional Staff Member with 
the House Committee on Education and Labor, where he helped 
write the 1992 Reauthorization of the Older Americans Act. Mr. 
Adcock, you may begin your testimony.

              STATEMENT OF DAN ADCOCK, DIRECTOR OF

           GOVERNMENT RELATIONS AND POLICY, NATIONAL

             COMMITTEE TO PRESERVE SOCIAL SECURITY

                 AND MEDICARE, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Mr. Adcock. Thank you. Dear Chairman Scott and Ranking 
Member Gillibrand, thank you for inviting the National 
Committee to testify for you today. Max Richmond is sorry he 
could not join you, particularly because he was a Staff 
Director of this Committee, and because he worked closely on 
the Senior Citizens Freedom to Work Act with Senator John 
McCain leading up to its enactment in 2000.
    Workforce participation depends on the older worker's 
health, but it is also influenced by their financial 
circumstances, the availability of jobs, and the willingness of 
employers to invest in older workers.
    Congress must remove impediments older workers confront 
when deciding whether to continue work, while ensuring any 
changes do not inadvertently force seniors into the workforce 
because they simply cannot afford to retire. One piece of this 
puzzle is repealing the Retirement Earnings Test.
    The National Committee supports Chairman Scott's repeal 
legislation in concept. However, before Congress enacts such a 
major change to Social Security, we believe this Committee 
should carefully explore three basic questions.
    Number one, will everyone benefit from repealing the RET? 
If some workers end up worse off, are there ways to mitigate 
the financial impacts on these workers and their families? 
Number two, will repealing the RET actually increase the 
participation of older Americans in the workforce, or are there 
other legislative changes that should be to advance this goal.
    Number three, what will the impact of repealing the RET be 
on the Social Security Administration's ability to implement 
the change, and on the solvency of the Social Security trust 
funds? I know from attending town halls with seniors that 
repealing RET would be extremely popular.
    After the last repeal of the RET in 2000 for claimants who 
reached the full retirement age, I know that many seniors who 
were not covered by the law complained that they had been left 
out. In part, this is because the RET is extremely complicated 
and tends to induce fear and uncertainty.
    Many seniors don't realize that Social Security benefits 
withheld under the RET are later returned to them through 
higher monthly payments for the rest of their lives. Those who 
don't know about this feature of the RET may find it difficult 
to fully weigh the impact on their own family's finances. For 
Congress, it is this element of the RET that contributes to the 
challenge of projecting the positive and negative impacts of 
the RET repeal legislation. While we hope the repeal of the RET 
will increase older worker employment, that won't happen if 
employers continue to discriminate in hiring based on age.
    That is what this Committee found at your September 3, 2025 
hearing. To address this challenge, you focused on bipartisan 
legislation, S. 2703, the Protecting Older Workers--Older 
Americans Act of 2025, which the National Committee supports. 
This bill would eliminate the current practice of employers 
utilizing forced arbitration to resolve age discrimination 
complaints, which would shift some of the leverage in these 
claims back to the workers.
    The National Committee is also concerned about the Social 
Security Administration's ability to implement the RET repeal 
since the agency has undergone a dramatic downsizing as a 
result of DOGE inspired staff cuts. In the short term, SSA will 
be required to modify its computer programs to reflect the 
elimination of the RET's impact on early retirement reductions. 
The education piece of an RET repeal is especially important to 
help beneficiaries make good decisions about when to claim 
retirement benefits.
    We urge you to ensure that SSA has enough additional 
resources to do this work, so it is not forced to shift 
resources from its other operations, which are already severely 
underfunded.
    Finally, we know from former Social Security Chief Actuary, 
Stephen Goss that RET repeal will ultimately reduce trust fund 
costs, but we are concerned how paying more benefits shortly 
after the RET appeal is enacted would affect Social Security's 
solvency when reserves are expected to be depleted by 2034.
    The question needs to be answered before repeal receives 
serious consideration. In conclusion, I want to thank you again 
for holding this hearing--this important hearing and for 
inviting me to testify. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thanks for being here. Thanks for your 
testimony. Now we will get to questions. Rachel, the Retirement 
Earnings Test was originally designed to help younger Americans 
get jobs when unemployment ran rampant during the Great 
Depression. Does that make sense to keep in place now nearly 
100 years later?
    Ms. Greszler. No, it doesn't make sense anymore as we are 
needing more workers and more producers and even that original 
thought was a little bit flawed to begin with, because you 
actually want more workers to produce more to generate more 
demand, so on both ends, that should have not been the policy 
to begin.
    Absolutely today, not only do we want more people working. 
We need more people working. By 2034, there will be more 
seniors in the U.S. than there are children for the first time 
in U.S. history and so, we need those older workers.
    The Chairman. Mr. Taylor, you have written extensively on 
the value that older Americans bring to the workforce. What are 
you hearing from employers? Are they trying to recruit and 
retain older workers, or is there still quite a barrier of age 
discrimination?
    Mr. Taylor. There is no question that ageism is alive and 
well and unfortunately, or fortunately I should say, during the 
post-COVID period, when unemployment was sub two percent in 
some states, we didn't see as much rampant ageism because we 
needed the talent.
    We continue to need the talent. That being said, there are 
still certain barriers. We have got to work on changing the 
language, as you have described in many ways--how we speak 
about older employees.
    That continues. There is a built-in narrative that it is 
time for you to move on. There is a perception amongst younger 
workers that you are keeping me from my next opportunity 
because you won't move on, so there is an inherent intention 
that is----
    The Chairman. That never happens in politics. Never 
happens----
    Mr. Taylor. As a result, that really does present some real 
tensions--some significant problems in the workplace. Younger 
employees want their next shot, and the older employee isn't 
moving on, so what we are trying to do is describe these 
diverse mentoring programs, opportunities for people to take on 
part-time roles, which older employees are willing to do, 
especially if you solve for the RET challenges.
    We think we can solve this. The other big challenge is 
flexible work. What we need increasingly, because of worker 
productivity and lower worker participation rates, we need 
older workers in the workplace and so, there is not as much of 
a barrier as there has been when it comes to ageism, but it is 
alive and well for people who have their own biases.
    The Chairman. That makes sense. Now whenever you are going 
to run for re-election, everybody wants to run for your office. 
They want you to move on. They have something else for you.
    Mr. Taylor. That is right.
    The Chairman. Mr. Fichtner, there is a problem with how the 
Retirement Earnings Test is discussed with beneficiaries. It is 
complex and not very transparent. What does research show about 
how well older Americans actually understand these rules?
    Mr. Fichtner. It is a great question, Senator and as you 
guessed, it does not--the research shows they don't understand 
it very much at all. In fact, they are confused what the RET 
is. They hear retirement earnings, and they hear tax, not test 
and that discourages work, as Rachel Greszler pointed out in 
her testimony, and you mentioned your opening statements.
    What is interesting, and this is also what my colleague 
mentioned, that people hear this, and then they see this idea 
that money is being taken out of their Social Security check, 
so they actually then think it is a tax. They don't understand, 
potentially, they might get it back and that, technically, it 
is actuarially neutral but no one likes to hear, well it is 
actually neutral.
    We will take it out today and give it back to you tomorrow. 
No one likes that idea, so it discourages work. We are not sure 
the research shows why it actually--if people are not working 
because they are confused about it, or if they just don't want 
to work. If they do want to work and then claim Social 
Security.
    The language we are using we know is confusing, Senator and 
that is why we very much want to change the language on the 
Claiming Act and also get rid of the Retirement Earnings Test.
    The Chairman. Makes sense. Mr. Adcock, how can employers 
better recognize and leverage the experience and institutional 
knowledge that older workers bring?
    Mr. Adcock. Well, I think it is kind of a mixed bag. I 
think that especially with workers who are professionals and 
who are white collar jobs, I think at minimum they are in tune 
to the idea of trying to bring people back and value that 
bringing back older workers and the experience they have.
    Also being flexible about how they bring them back, because 
some workers may not want to work full time. They may want to 
have a glide path toward retirement, so maybe for five years, 
they want to work part time or as a consultant and I think if 
employers do that, I think that is the case.
    I think where it becomes very challenging is blue collar 
jobs, where people are physically not able to work any longer, 
or employers don't perceive that they have that ability and are 
reluctant to keep them on.
    I don't know that a lot of that is happening in that 
particular part of employment but certainly, if workers are 
physically able to do it and can, they should.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Taylor, you lead an 
organization that represents hundreds of thousands of H.R. 
professionals from basically every sector of the economy. Your 
organization sets the standards for how employers think about 
talent. Is there more that can be done to improve how we treat 
workers over 60 to help them be viewed as an asset rather than 
a problem?
    Mr. Taylor. Yes, Mr. Chairman. There are three things in 
particular. One, screening practices, such as focusing on 
graduation dates and people's resumes. You are talking about an 
obvious way to commit ageism without leaving a trace of it, is 
you look simply at a resume, and you can do the math and 
conclude the age of a person.
    We are advocating for individuals to actually exclude 
graduation rates from their resumes. That is something 
employers can do. Second, coded language that we use, like 
digital native or fast paced environment, words that suggest we 
are looking for younger people without saying younger people 
explicitly, which would violate, obviously, ADA and other laws, 
local and state laws.
    Then excluding older workers from upskilling opportunities. 
There is this really interesting practice that we had 
historically, which was we provide a lot of training and 
development opportunities for newer workers and then when you 
hit about 55, we stopped sending you to training because you 
were on the other side of your career.
    What we are saying is employers have got to be more mindful 
about the idea that you might actually provide training 
opportunities specifically in this AI world for older workers, 
so you are not messaging to them that they have outlived their 
shelf life.
    The Chairman. Senator Kim.
    Senator Kim. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you all for coming 
out here. Mr. Adcock, I would like to start with you. I 
recently became now a caregiver for my own father, and I know 
one in every four Americans currently serve as a caregiver 
providing uncompensated care to a family member.
    Many individuals who are caring for their family members 
are forced to either choose to leave a job or choose to figure 
out how they can do that and balance it in terms of taking care 
of their loved one and depending on when the caretaker leaves--
a caregiver who believes a workforce, this can often 
shortchange Social Security benefits.
    There are other also increased challenges for older 
caregivers who are living on Social Security alone upon 
retiring. In either scenario, it is often the case that 
benefits are often not enough to get past daily expenses, let 
alone expenses associated with caregiving.
    I guess I just wanted to ask you, as we are considering 
solutions that could better reflect the work lives of 
Americans, how could we reimagine Social Security to capture 
the needs of caregivers in our society?
    Mr. Adcock. Thanks, Senator Kim. I agree, that is a great 
question. First, for somebody who is still working, I know that 
when we talk about a more broad picture of Social Security 
reform, one of the things that we support, the National 
Committee, is that there be a Social Security caregiver credit.
    Because if you are leaving the workforce to care for either 
a child or an elderly parent, it means for every year that you 
are out of the workforce, your Social Security record is 
reducing your Social Security benefit for the future.
    Legislation has been introduced in the past, which would 
provide basically a proxy for the time someone left the 
workforce while caregiving to enable them to have a higher 
Social Security benefit than they otherwise would.
    That is one thing I would do. I think once somebody has 
retired and is on Social Security benefits, I think that is a 
harder-to crack. I mean, obviously, with regard to Social 
Security itself. That is why we, you know, obviously as an 
organization, we are concerned more than just about Social 
Security, about Medicare and Medicaid and the Old Americans 
Act.
    Those programs, various of those programs have various 
supports for caregivers that we think are really essential and 
need to be beefed up, especially home and community based care 
that the Medicaid program provides and ensure that that program 
is there for the long haul, and that the Old American Act also 
is enabled to provide family caregiver support, which it has 
inadequately been funded in the past and it needs to be fully 
funded.
    Senator Kim. Yes. As you said, there are different 
scenarios in which this happened and for instance, you know, we 
have been talking to people that are caregivers who claim 
Social Security benefits early due to their caregiving related 
income loss.
    I guess the question that we are trying to think through, 
how do we make sure that they are not structurally 
disadvantaged in the long term, you know, when it comes to, you 
know, being under Social Security policy? What you raised are 
important questions that I think a number of different 
scenarios that are out there--and I think it would be good for 
our Committee, as well as broadly here in Congress, be thinking 
through those different scenarios.
    Mr. Taylor, I would like to just turn to you. Just kind of 
building off of some of the questions that the chairman asked 
about--you know, about older Americans who want to be able to 
continue on to work and just thinking through, you know, what 
kind of policy should we be considering and pursuing here at 
the federal level to advance accommodations or flexible 
solutions that could increase workplace accessibility for older 
Americans.
    You know, you talked about some of these different ideas 
that are out there, including some of the, you know, the 
language side of things. I am just wondering if there are 
certain tactics or tools that you have seen, or opportunities 
for policies that you think are ones that we should be 
considering from a legislative standpoint.
    Mr. Taylor. Senator, our belief in SHRM is that from a 
private employer perspective, that there are sufficient 
legislative policies in place to address age discrimination.
    Frankly, employers are best positioned, as it stands, to 
audit themselves, looking at hiring and talent practices, to 
remove biased language, for example, from job descriptions and 
postings, to ensure equal access to training and development 
opportunities, as I mentioned earlier. Frankly, there is not a 
sense that any piece of additional legislation or policy is 
going to solve for that.
    Employers need the talent. They are convinced of it. We are 
past the day of saying that, you know, people have outlived 
their value to us. What we have got to do is just be very 
intentional about ensuring that our practices don't 
unintentionally exclude people from the workforce because of 
their age.
    Senator Kim. Yes. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Senator Moody.
    Senator Moody. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you so much to 
our witnesses for being here today. We really appreciate it. In 
Florida, as you know, we have a very large senior population. I 
think that is growing. Some people refer to it as a silver 
tsunami, which I love.
    I think a large driver of that--you know, I want to say 
over 50 percent of returning seniors to work talk about extra 
money and I think it is--in Florida, thankfully, we have a 
thriving state, very easy to start a business, number one, in 
entrepreneurship--new business formations, we rank high in the 
Nation. A lot of opportunities. You know, I want to better 
understand what the impediments are if someone wants to go back 
and work in their senior years, what those impediments are.
    I want to understand how we might be able to as lawmakers 
address current law to allow for that, so they don't fit--they 
don't feel bound in order to receive their Social Security 
benefits or other benefits. They don't feel bound to not 
working because they--if they make more money, they won't be 
able to receive those earned benefits over the course of their 
life.
    I think that is wrong and we need to fix it, because we 
know that this has become--going to become more and more of a 
problem. I think by 2030, all baby boomers will be over the age 
of 65. My office staff keeps thinking that I am a baby boomer, 
and I keep assuring them that I am not but I think, by 2034, 
seniors will outnumber children for the first----
    [Laughter.]
    It is true, oh, Senior Senator of mine from Florida. By 
2034, seniors will outnumber children for the first time in 
U.S. history. I want to get it right before then.
    I want to start working on that now. I am so grateful--our 
chairman, I think this has been the most active Aging Committee 
maybe in the history. It makes sense since we have a chairman 
from Florida. We know that more and more workers over age 65 
are coming into the employment sector, and it has grown by 117 
percent within 20 years, so giving these realities, I want to 
hear from you.
    I mean, you are the experts. Again, the chairman has put 
together a great panel. What are the main impediments? Why if 
someone wanted to work, they wanted to earn the extra income, 
and we know that cost of living is going up--and specifically 
related to health care and drug prices.
    We are trying to do everything we can to address that, drug 
pricing transparency, all of the things that we are doing to 
address that but, you know, as they are wanting to make more to 
cover these increased costs, what is the main impediment that 
they are facing if they want to go back into the workforce? I 
will start with you, Ms. Greszler.
    Ms. Greszler. Thank you. I would like to talk about two and 
first is that Retirement Earnings Test and so, somebody who is 
making a modest amount, $29,000 per year, facing a 74 percent 
marginal tax rate, in terms of what they get from that 
additional dollar that they work and earn.
    When you see that only $0.26 of a $1.00 coming in in a 
paycheck, that encourages people to just stop working, and so, 
just eliminating that test is just a common sense one, and it 
would improve the economy. It would improve Social Security, so 
getting rid of the penalty first.
    Senator Moody. You think that is the number one thing to 
do?
    Ms. Greszler. I think that combined with----
    Senator Moody. For triaging our approach.
    Ms. Greszler. Yes, that is the first thing and second, I 
would address the people who want to transition out of a formal 
nine-to-five job into part time, more flexible work, enabling 
them to first be able to have that opportunity, so things like 
clarity and what is an independent worker versus an employee.
    There are two bills on that, the Modern Worker Empowerment 
Act and 21st Century Worker Act, that would just provide that 
clarity to make those opportunities available and then 
addressing the benefits side of things.
    If somebody is, say, 62 and they want to start 
transitioning out, but they don't want to lose access to their 
health insurance and maybe they still want to have a retirement 
account, having those types of portable benefits be an option 
through independent work as opposed to the formal employer are 
things you could do.
    Something like Unlocking Benefits for Independent Workers 
Act, so just expanding the flexibility. Neither of these things 
are like new mandates on employers. They are just removing 
current barriers that the Government has created.
    Senator Moody. Does anybody else want to comment on that?
    Mr. Taylor. That is what the Government can do, but what 
private employers can do--we know specifically that there are 
four things that older workers say are barriers to them 
returning to the workplace. One is flexible working hours. We 
as employers have the ability to impact that.
    Second, they want us to develop more wellness programs that 
specifically address age-related health needs, so gym 
memberships are nice and things like that, but ultimately they 
want things that are responsive, that are age-appropriate, if 
you will. Third, phased retirement options.
    Being able to do this--you don't have to go from, you know, 
80 to 0 in terms of miles per hour that you can take this down 
and maybe do it over a period of time and then fourth, part 
time scheduling opportunities.
    Dr. Fichtner. If the chairman will indulge me with 30 
seconds. I can bring it back to the Claiming Clarity Act, which 
I think is very important because culturally, we still have 
this notion that you turn 65 and you retire and I think that is 
a cultural thing.
    The language we use, the terms we use. People hear the term 
early eligibility age, and no one wants to be late for their 
Government benefits. We don't talk about the minimum monthly 
benefit age and when I was at Social Security talking to 
beneficiaries, just telling them, oh, you are here, you are 62. 
Do you realize this is a minimum monthly benefits?
    They would say, wait, minimum? What do you mean, that I can 
get more? The framing is very important and if we start 
disconnecting, stopping work from Social Security claiming, 
then we can start talking about how people could use different 
types of income, working in retirement, when to claim Social 
Security that is best for them without confusing them with 
confusing language.
    I think that is something Congress can do, and we should 
all do culturally, is maybe we retire the word retirement.
    Senator Moody. I am out of time, but I don't think the 
Chairman would let me end with just you on the end.
    Mr. Adcock. Yes. Well, thanks, Senator and just to say it 
briefly, I think probably the biggest impediment is age 
discrimination. I think that there are situations where people 
really do want to go back to work, but their potential employer 
doesn't value their work, and so that is a real problem. In 
terms of, you know, what my colleague just said, I think that 
is a really huge deal.
    You know, we are talking today about repealing the earnings 
test and for some individuals, that might make sense but I 
think the bigger problem is just misunderstanding of how all 
this works and how it is a good thing or a bad thing for 
individuals and especially that people need to go into this 
with their eyes wide open.
    That they need to understand that they actually do get this 
money eventually back. It is currently withheld by the 
Retirement Earnings Test and if it was repealed, would it make 
sense for them to do that?
    Also, they need be cognizant of the fact that if they 
decide to claim benefits early, that that is going to change--
you know, that that is going to lower their benefits for their 
lifetime and not only for them, but potentially for any 
survivors they have in the future, so they really need to 
really understand that before making those very important 
decisions.
    Senator Moody. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. You think they do?
    Mr. Adcock. What was that?
    The Chairman. Do you think people know?
    Mr. Adcock. I think sometimes they do. I think, sometimes, 
they don't. That is why, if your legislation became law, I 
think it is really going to be incumbent on the Social Security 
Administration to educate potential beneficiaries about what 
decision is in their best interest.
    The Chairman. I am trying to think, I don't think on what--
I get a form every so often, right. I don't think it has ever 
talked about survivor benefits that I remember. I have to look 
at it. Senator Warren.
    Senator Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, so when he ran for 
President in 2024, Donald Trump repeatedly promised that he 
"wouldn't touch Social Security." As soon as he took office, he 
immediately directed Elon Musk, who thinks that Social Security 
is a Ponzi scheme, to DOGE his way through the Social Security 
Administration.
    He slashed staff. He created new administrative hurdles 
that make it harder for Americans to get their checks, money 
that they earned. That is effectively a benefits cut. Now, 
Senate Democrats have fought back, and we have forced the Trump 
Administration to reverse course on some of their most harmful 
policies, but this fight is not over. Social Security 
Administration is still facing a customer service crisis, and 
the Trump Administration and the Republicans are still looking 
for ways to cut Social Security.
    Their current approach is making Americans work until they 
drop dead, so just listen to what Trump's appointees are 
saying. When asked about raising the retirement age, Social 
Security Administrator Frank Bisignano said, "everything is 
being considered and will be considered." Mr. Adcock, you are a 
Social Security expert. How would raising the retirement age 
affect Americans' benefits?
    Mr. Adcock. Simply put, it is a benefit cut. Doesn't matter 
whether you claim Social Security benefits at 62, or 70, or how 
long you live, it is a benefit cut in any way you slice it.
    For every year you decide that you are going to raise the 
retirement age, you are taking about--well, you are losing 
$24,000 of income for every year but then in your future 
benefits for every year that it is increased, you are losing 
about seven percent of your benefits.
    Senator Warren. Raising the retirement age on Social 
Security by one year cost $24,000, and over your lifetime is 
about a seven percent benefit cut. Is that--?
    Mr. Adcock. For each year.
    Senator Warren. For each year.
    Mr. Adcock. Yes, that is right.
    Senator Warren. For each year, okay.
    Mr. Adcock. Because some of the proposals that are being 
discussed would raise it from 67 to 69, or 67 to 70.
    Senator Warren. If you go to 70, if you do the math, how 
big is the cut?
    Mr. Adcock. Well, the math ends up being--it is a 20 
percent future cut.
    Senator Warren. A 20 percent future cut.
    Mr. Adcock. Yes.
    Senator Warren. Okay. Frank Bisignano is not alone in this. 
After the Republicans blew trillions of dollars on a tax cut 
for their rich buddies in their Big Beautiful Bill, Dr. Oz said 
the way we dig out of a deficit is having, "the average 
American work a year later" and not retire. Mr. Adcock, how 
many Americans without a college degree work in physically 
demanding jobs?
    Mr. Adcock. In that category, if people don't have college 
educations, about 41 percent of them.
    Senator Warren. What does it mean to work an extra year?
    Mr. Adcock. Well, it means an extra year that you don't 
have benefits and especially when we are talking about this 
particular group of people who need to retire early, generally 
their longevity isn't as long. I mean, I think I have seen 
studies where when you take the bottom half of the income 
scale, they live about five years less than the people at the 
top end of the income scale, and especially the other part of 
this is that if you do have a physically demanding job, and you 
are likely also to be from a community of color, in these 
situations it means that you are going to need to claim 
benefits early.
    Today, under current law, if you claim early at 62, you are 
taking about a 30 percent cut to your benefits, had you not 
waited until your full retirement age currently at 67 but if 
you were to raise the retirement age to 70, we are talking 
about a 50 percent cut.
    Senator Warren. Wow, wow. I just want to add in this, there 
are obviously also people who have college degrees who also 
have physically demanding jobs.
    Mr. Adcock. Sure.
    Senator Warren. Am I right on that?
    Mr. Adcock. Oh, yes, absolutely. Yes.
    Senator Warren. Right. My favorite example are kindergarten 
teachers. Try it sometime. Unsurprisingly, Dr. Oz is not 
thinking about the millions of Americans who work in manual 
labor, who have physically demanding jobs, many of whom have 
ground their bodies for decades at construction sites, hauling 
boxes in warehouses, scrubbing bathroom floors, and literally 
may not be capable of adding work.
    Indeed, as you say, these are often the people who have to 
retire early because they are just physically spent and look, I 
am all for older Americans working longer if they want to work 
a lot longer, but let's not confuse wanting to work with being 
forced to work because the Trump Administration is taking a 
sledgehammer to Social Security.
    Instead of hanging those workers out to dry, we should be 
expanding and protecting Social Security, especially when 
tariffs and war are now driving up prices for our seniors, for 
everybody in this country, so Mr. Adcock, how could we pay for 
bigger Social Security benefits?
    Mr. Adcock. Our preferred solution would be making the 
wealthy pay their fair share.
    Senator Warren. Yes. That seems right to me. Look, we have 
got to make sure that the wealthiest Americans pay their fair 
share, and not force seniors to work until they drop dead. 
Right now, a billionaire, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, 
pays as much in Social Security taxes as someone who makes 
$175,000 a year.
    I have got a bill to fix that, and it would raise enough 
money to increase benefits by $200 a month for every senior and 
help stabilize Social Security to make sure it is around for 
the long haul. Social Security is not charity. It is a promise, 
and it is a promise that people have earned.
    The Trump Administration is trying to strip away that 
promise, trying to chisel it, trying to shrink it up, and then 
rebrand it as an opportunity to work. Americans aren't buying 
it, and we are going to keep fighting back. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Raking Member Gillibrand.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to 
our witnesses. I want to address the question of privacy 
concerns that people whose data is on the Social Security 
Administration servers are facing.
    On March 10th, the Washington Post reported that Social 
Security Administration's Office of the Inspector General is 
investigating a whistleblower complaint alleging that a former 
DOGE employee assigned to SSA improperly stored beneficiary and 
worker sensitive personal information on a personal thumb drive 
and further shared it with his employer, a publicly traded 
information technology company.
    This follows allegations in 2025 from SSA's then Chief Data 
Officer regarding the improper actions and storage of SSA 
beneficiary information. In November 2025, and again in 
February 2026, joined by Senators Schumer and Alsobrooks, we 
requested that the IG initiated investigation determine once 
and for all the scope of the personal information that was 
compromised.
    Mr. Adcock, can you discuss the potential risk to both 
Americans, individual Americans, and our national security of 
having the most sensitive and personal data insecure?
    Mr. Adcock. Sure. I mean it is something we hear from our 
members quite a bit from that they are concerned about it, 
along with other chaos that has happened because of DOGE and 
the managing of the Social Security Administration.
    Yes, you know, they understand so much of their personal 
information, both health care and other, and Social Security is 
part of that data base and before, they believed that that was 
a pretty secure site, that they didn't really have to worry 
about it but now, basically, because of this information 
disclosed in court cases that it has been sold to third 
parties, I think it is very troubling for a lot of our members.
    They are really concerned about how this is being managed 
and it speaks to just the overall data base itself in terms of 
proposals to try to take it from the current system to a new 
system in a very short period of time without any extra money 
and what that could mean for ensuring that all the information 
that is there, like work histories that determine benefits, 
that that stays pristine and that still is enable--that that 
data base is intact so that we can ensure that benefits are 
really what they should be.
    I mean, that is why for instance people have been--we have 
advised our members to go on to Start My Social Security 
account and to save all their work history, so in case that 
information was ever lost by accident or what is going on at 
the Social Security Administration, they would have that.
    Senator Gillibrand. Yes, we hear--I have been on the Armed 
Services Committee for almost 20 years, and if you lose your 
data about what you did in the military, it is very hard to get 
your benefits sometimes, so I think this data protection is a 
very big issue that we all have to be concerned about. Mr. 
Fichtner, would you like to add to anything?
    Dr. Fichtner. Actually, I would, Senator. This is a very 
important issue on privacy, and I am a little bit out of the 
loop on this one. It has been a while since I was digging in 
this, but when I was at the Social Security Administration, we 
were so concerned that working with Congress, I think that is 
when we got rid of the Social Security number off of Medicare 
cards.
    We went to a Medicare number and I think one of the things 
to start considering, as you think about privacy, is the Social 
Security number has become a de-facto national ID number, and 
it is linked to everything you do. It is on your tax return. It 
is on your employment records. It is everything. Maybe it is 
time to start thinking about how you can segment those.
    You can have a separate number for your tax return, 
separate number from Medicare, for Social Security, so if some 
hacker gets one number, they don't get your entire life and I 
am very concerned about this from an administration standpoint, 
because you are putting so much information now into Social 
Security, which also processes W-2s for the IRS.
    They have tax information. If that information gets out, it 
could be very valuable and it could be very detrimental to 
people when it comes to fraud.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. I now want to address some 
of the issues that we talked about earlier in terms of 
improving the public's access to Social Security 
Administration.
    The Social Security Administration lost 7,000 workers, 
which is a lot, because DOGE encouraged and pushed them out, 
and pushed out the more experienced workers, the ones who had 
more years. I have heard from New Yorkers, they have really 
struggled to be able to talk to somebody at the Social Security 
Administration and hard to get an appointment. In March 2026, 
the approximate wait time in an office--for an office 
appointment was 35 days.
    The agency has limited publicizing its casework metrics, so 
we just don't have a lot of insight into this, so one potential 
burden reduction on Social Security Administration would be to 
eliminate the need to administer the Retirement Earnings Test. 
This is something that this chairman and I are looking into as 
a reform that I think is interesting and good.
    For beneficiaries who remain in the workplace, what major 
challenges do members report when dealing with the Social 
Security Administration, and are there any unforeseen 
challenges with this change that we are talking about? Why 
don't you start, Dan, and then we can go down the line.
    Mr. Adcock. Yes, no clearly, we have been, you know, for 
more than a year now that we have received lots of calls from 
our members that have made similar complaints. That they have 
had to wait a long time to make an appointment with the field 
office, if they can get in touch with the field office.
    Now that is being compromised in some sense because in 
order to make an appointment at a field office, you can't do it 
individually with an individual field office. It is being 
switched now to a national call center in which you have to 
make those appointments. I think the same is true in also 
accessing the 800 number, awaiting a really long time in order 
to get calls.
    You know, obviously, Social Security disability insurance 
claims, we don't work as much on those as other organizations 
do, but we have heard that the lengthy period of time in which 
it takes to adjudicate those cases has really increased too, so 
yes, all of these things have been a huge problem in terms of 
people being able to talk to the agency and--transact business 
with the agency.
    Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Fichtner.
    Dr. Fichtner. It is a great question, Senator and the one 
thing I would point out is that before I was asked to testify 
on this hearing about the Retirement Earnings Test, I have been 
working with some advocates about the possibility of moving the 
administration of the RET over to the Internal Revenue Service, 
because this is an income based issue we are talking about.
    Who is better to manage income-based issues when it comes 
to working is the IRS, not SSA and IRS also has funding 
challenges as the Social Administration but as Rachel Greszler 
pointed out in her testimony, the agency spends $70 million 
administering the RET. If they are not administering RET, that 
is $70 million they can put on someplace else, including 
customer service.
    I think one of the things, to now channel my old boss, 
Commissioner Mike Askew, who came before you, you know, the 
Committee on the Hill, on the Senate and the House, asking for 
more money and said, here is what I need, and here is how we 
will demonstrate and prove to you that we are doing what we say 
we are going to do--hold the agency accountable.
    If the agency needs more money, have the Commissioner come 
in and say, here is what I plan to do with this money, and here 
is how I will report to you how we are coming along, which 
could be public hearings.
    For a while, the agency was putting on YouTube its 
operational meetings so you could see their metrics. That is no 
longer there. I would love to see that back. It was very much a 
transparency issue to see what the agency is doing in their 
metrics instead of hiding them--making them public.
    The Chairman. Why aren't they doing it?
    Dr. Fichtner. Very good question, Senator. I do not know.
    Senator Gillibrand. We could maybe do a letter on that, 
asking them why. Mr. Taylor, anything to add?
    Mr. Taylor. Wouldn't add anything.
    Senator Gillibrand. Ms. Greszler.
    Ms. Greszler. Yes, so from 2019, we know that the RET 
affects--could affect about five million people and about 
500,000 individuals did have their benefits reduced or 
completely eliminated.
    That is 500,00 individuals who many are going to be 
confused and are going to call the SSA, try to schedule a 
visit, so by eliminating the test, you could immediately 
eliminate all of those things and so, it is a very kind of 
quick simplification.
    The one thing that you would need to do is those who are 
already in that 62 to 66 age range who have had some benefits 
held back, you would have to figure out how are we going to get 
those back to them? Is it going to be an immediate, like one-
time refund, or are they going to be in the old system and 
still move forward and wait until their full retirement age? 
That is a pretty easy fix to make.
    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Yes. I am fine. I mean, we ought to get the 
information. I mean we ought to find out.
    Senator Gillibrand. Yes, I agree.
    The Chairman. You know, both of our states have a lot of 
seniors. Ms. Greszler, can you speak a little bit about the 
positive potential impact that repealing the RET will have on 
the trust fund?
    Ms. Greszler. Yes. It is a modest impact. I have estimated 
up to about $8 billion additional dollars per year and this is 
because individuals are working longer and as they work longer, 
they are paying additional payroll taxes. That boosts Social 
Security's revenues, Medicare's, state and local income taxes, 
federal income taxes, so it is really kind of a spillover, not 
just to Social Security, but to all the other Government 
revenues as well.
    The Chairman. Mr. Taylor, from your perspective, what are 
the most common misconceptions employers have about older 
workers, and how do those perceptions differ from the evidence 
you seek?
    Mr. Taylor. Number one, it is that they are unwilling to 
learn new ideas, and particularly in this AI environment and 
what we have learned is there are just reticent. Obviously, for 
good reason. They are not, as we use the term, digital natives, 
so we have got to be more intentional about training and 
creating training and development opportunities for older 
workers.
    It is two-way, so some of that has some value to it. The 
reality is I am one of those, right. I was born a Blockbuster 
kid, another Florida company, and the world is just different, 
right. My 15-year-old has to teach me how to do things but I am 
willing to be taught those things, and we have to be 
intentional about it. The second area that we find is a 
perception that they won't work as hard.
    That younger generations have more youth vitality and 
therefore are willing to put in more hours and actually, the 
data would suggest the opposite but that is some of the 
perception, so much of the work that we are doing is around 
narrative building and storytelling.
    We have to convince our colleagues, as well as leaders, 
that in fact older workers are just as valuable, if not more 
valuable in some ways than some of the younger workers at this 
point.
    The Chairman. I think my generation, I think probably 
everybody thinks their generation is the hardest working. I am 
sure my parents thought their generation was the hardest 
working and I think it could actually--it could be true, right. 
Who knows. Mr. Fichtner, can you explain how repealing the RET 
test would also provide freedom and flexibility for older 
Americans when making benefit claims?
    Dr. Fichtner. Oh, definitely. Thank you, Senator. One of 
the issues people see is they still have this cultural issue 
that when they stop working, they have to claim Social 
Security. If they claim Social Security, they stop working.
    One, if we disconnect that, that is the first thing. When 
they see the Retirement Earnings Test, they think, whoa, I am 
going to be taxed for me working after 62. Why am I even 
bothering to work then? Most of them take the benefits and they 
don't work and I think this is also very important when 
thinking about the importance of income and the benefits.
    Just to give you an idea, Senator, so when I was--I have 
been working on this issue for almost 20 years now, so I really 
want to thank you for your efforts with this, and Ranking 
Member Gillibrand as well. Because one of the things I did at 
Social Security is we got rid of that break even analysis and 
made it a personal decision where the agency talks to 
beneficiaries about them, their spouse, survivors, and they 
have a double sided one-pager that I put in my written 
testimony.
    To give an idea how important the claiming decision is for 
income, if you were scheduled to get just $1,000 at age 67, 
just $1,000, claiming at age 62 would give you $700. That is a 
30 percent reduction in your monthly benefits for the rest of 
your life. If you claim at 70, it is $1,240 benefits. That is 
24 percent increase. Now, for those who can't do math quickly, 
the difference between that 62 benefit and age 70 is a 77 
percent increase in your month benefit that is inflation 
protected for the rest of your life.
    When may need that money the most? When you are older, 
might have health concerns and costs, that claiming decision, 
that transparency, will help you make a better informed 
decision, then telling people, look, you can work and get 
Social Security. You cannot work and get Social Security.
    You can do whatever you want. The idea is not thinking 
about income as the outcome, and how to help you to make a more 
informed decision and again, I applaud you for your efforts in 
this.
    The Chairman. Does anybody want to add anything?
    Ms. Greszler. I would just like to bring up a point on the 
solvency of Social Security and the issue of raising the 
retirement age. The reality today is that Social Security does 
not have the ability to continue paying benefits when the trust 
fund runs insolvent sometime between 2032, the most recent 
projections, and that is an across the board 23 to 28 percent 
benefit cut. The reality of that is that even if you waited 
until 70 to start collecting your benefits, you would not get 
what the current program pays today.
    Dr. Fichtner. Mr. Chairman, if I can because the comment 
came up--I am sorry----
    The Chairman. No, please, please.
    Dr. Fichtner. Whether or not to touch Social Security, like 
hands off Social Security. What I would encourage the Senate is 
to put their hands on Social Security because the default is 
trust fund depletion.
    The Chairman. The default is horrible.
    Dr. Fichtner. The default is horrible. It is roughly a 23 
percent benefit cut across the board. Technically, you could 
say Social Security is solvent because it is designed not to 
pay benefits greater than it has in revenues but that default, 
again, is the worst option and so, I think I would love to 
encourage--and the trustees have been saying this for over 20 
years. The sooner Congress acts, the better, so I would 
encourage----
    The Chairman. It is really not fair. I mean, it is not fair 
to people that, you know, that rely on it. I was Governor of 
Florida, and I think when I went in, the pension plan was like 
80 to 83 percent funded and people act like that is okay, so 
wait a minute. How is that okay?
    Dr. Fichtner. Well, and again, I chaired----
    The Chairman. The private sector can't do that.
    Dr. Fichtner. I chaired the Puerto Rico Pension Reserve 
Trust and out of the bankruptcy of Puerto Rico, their public 
employee pension plans were underfunded to the tune of $0 
dollars, and a $40 to $50 billion of liability, which we are 
turning around but this is important to do things earlier, not 
wait until the last minute.
    Mr. Taylor. The point that I wanted to make is that, you 
know, we talk about how these plans impact older workers, but 
we haven't oftentimes asked older workers how they actually 
feel about it and our research at SHRM suggests that there are 
four things. They say, one, I get to stay mentally active and 
engaged.
    Seventy percent of older workers 67 and older say, this is 
good for me, so you may think this is negative, but it is 
actually good. Second, to maintain financial stability. I 
actually want to do this. Not that I need to maintain financial 
stability, vacations, trips, taking care of the grandkids, 
etcetera. Third, to avoid boredom. The reality is people work 
for a purpose in retirement.
    Then finally, to continue using their current skills and 
their experiences, so this idea that it is a bad thing and that 
we are working people to death doesn't exactly sync with what 
older workers are telling employers.
    The Chairman. I mean, some of the jobs are too demanding, 
you know, right. I think, I mean everybody wants to have--I 
don't know anybody that doesn't want to have purpose. I don't 
plan on retiring. I believe we do have to--we have to figure 
out how to preserve Medicare and Social Security.
    I have only been up here seven years. It is pretty hard to 
have a conversation right now. If we don't, it is not fair to 
the people that are relying on it. It is like when I was 
Governor of Florida, I worked hard to get the pension plan 
fully funded, so it is hard. Anybody else? [No response.]
    I want to thank everybody for being here today and 
participating. I look forward to continuing to work with 
members.
    If any Senator has additional questions for the witnesses 
or statements to be added, their hearing record will be open 
until next Wednesday at 5:00 p.m. Thanks each of you.
    [Whereupon, at 4:50 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
=======================================================================

                                APPENDIX

=======================================================================

                      Prepared Witness Statements

=======================================================================
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
     
      
=======================================================================


                        Questions for the Record

=======================================================================

                 U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

            "Experience Matters: Seniors and the Workforce"

                             March 25, 2026

                        Questions for the Record

                            Rachel Greszler

                   Ranking Member Kirsten Gillibrand


    Question:

    Why in your view is the repeal of the Retirement Earnings 
Test a better policy proposal than further liberalizing it, for 
example by increasing the current dollar exemption amounts?

    Response:

    Increasing the current dollar exemption for the retirement 
earnings test (from the current $24,480 in 2026) would be 
helpful because it would reduce the number of working seniors 
who are hit by the test and who lose Social Security benefits. 
Moreover, among those who continue to lose benefits, it would 
reduce the amount that some of them lose. There are two primary 
reasons, however, why I strongly support complete repeal of the 
retirement earnings test rather than an increase in the 
exemption amount:
    First is that an increase in the threshold contradicts the 
primary remaining justification for the test, which is a 
paternalistic attempt to protect older Americans from making 
decisions that might not be best for them. Specifically, this 
refers to the decision to claim Social Security benefits before 
the full retirement age, thereby exchanging a lower monthly 
Social Security benefit for a longer period of receiving 
benefits.
    The rationale behind the retirement earnings test is: if 
you are still working and earning over $24,480, you may not 
need as much income now from Social Security, but there is a 
chance that you will need a higher Social Security benefit in 
the future when you are less likely to be able to work and may 
have used up other non-Social Security savings.
    In this way, the retirement earnings test essentially takes 
away individuals' choices over when to claim benefits if the 
government thinks that they are A) earning enough to not need 
as much in benefits now, and B) are at risk of outliving their 
savings and may need higher Social Security benefits in the 
future. Increasing the exemption amount eliminates the policy 
for those it is most likely to "protect," while leaving it in 
place for higher earners who are less likely to outlive their 
savings.
    From a fiscal and economic perspective, raising the cap 
would be significantly inferior to eliminating it because 
people who are still working and earning significant incomes 
between ages 62 and 66 tend to have longer life expectancies, 
and thus are more likely to come out ahead, in terms of total 
Social Security benefits received, as a result of the 
retirement earnings test.
    Second, an increase in the exemption does little to reduce 
administrative costs and burdens on the Social Security 
Administration. If any level of retirement earnings test 
exists, the Social Security Administration has to monitor the 
earnings of all beneficiaries between the ages of 62 and 66, 
approximately five million individuals. While the number of 
people affected by the test (roughly 520,000 in 2019) would 
decline, and the SSA would have to withhold fewer benefit 
checks and respond to fewer calls and visits from those 
affected by the test, the SSA would still have to send notices 
to and monitor the earnings of millions of individuals who are 
below the full retirement age. Eliminating the retirement 
earnings test would-in the long run-save the entirety of the 
estimated $70 million per year in administrative costs and 
eliminate all confusion caused by the test.
    In the near term, immediately after elimination of the 
retirement earnings test, the SSA would need to address 
individuals who have had benefits withheld by the test and who 
have not yet reached their full retirement age. The simplest 
way to do this would be to move up the re-calculation of 
lifetime benefits from individuals' attainment of full 
retirement age to the year of implementation.
    Thank you for the opportunity to further explain why I 
believe eliminating the retirement earnings test entirely is 
the best way to help workers and reduce administrative costs 
and complexities for civil servants at the Social Security 
Administration.

                 U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

            "Experience Matters: Seniors and the Workforce"

                             March 25, 2026

                        Questions for the Record

                           Dr. Jason Fichtner

                   Ranking Member Kirsten Gillibrand

    Question:

    Based on your prior management roles at SSA, what impacts 
would repeal of the Retirement Earnings Test and the Claiming 
Age Clarity Act have on agency operations and budgets, and what 
advice can you share on how best to support effective agency 
implementation of these potential reforms?

    Response:

    I am of the view that the Claiming Age Clarity Act would 
have a negligible impact on SSA's budget and operations. Short-
term costs to changing terminology in communications and policy 
documents, training staff, etc., are real, but at the margin 
the costs would be negligible.
    If the Agency has not yet shared a cost estimate of 
implementing this legislation, the Senate should ask for an 
official cost estimate. I am also of the view that additional 
appropriations are not necessary to implement the bill. That 
said, a small amount of dedicated funding would likely make 
implementation more effective, and support for that funding may 
address any administrative cost concerns that legislators or 
the Agency has if this bill were to become law. Recently, the 
Bipartisan Policy Center Action submitted a letter to the 
Senate and House Labor, Health and Human Services, Education, 
and Related Agencies Appropriations Subcommittee (March 19, 
2026) where they supported "including at least $10 million in 
dedicated funding to improve SSA's communication with 
individuals considering when to claim old-age benefits. This 
funding should support the adoption of clearer, more intuitive 
claiming terminology-consistent with the intent of H.R. 5284 
and S. 1504-and enable updated systems and publications, as 
well as expanded outreach, education, and decision-support 
efforts to help beneficiaries choose the claiming age that best 
fits their individual circumstances."\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ https://bpcaction.org/wp-content/uploads/BPCA-FY27-LHHS-
Appropriations-Requests.pdf

    I will add that the act will likely reduce administrative 
costs in the long term because of the increased clarity the new 
claiming language will provide the public.
    Likewise, the repeal of the Retirement Earnings Test (RET) 
would also have some short term costs, including reprograming 
systems, communications and policy documents, training staff, 
etc. In her testimony before the committee during this hearing, 
Rachel Greszler referenced an SSA OIG report that SSA spends 
approximately $70 million annual administering the RET.\2\ If 
the RET were to be repealed, the Agency would eventually free 
up $70 million annually for other administrative purposes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Office of the Inspector General, "The Social Security 
Administration's Enforcement of the Retirement Earnings Test," Social 
Security Administration, February 2, 2024, https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/
uploads/a-08-21-51049.pdf

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Question:

    I am a strong supporter of ABLE Accounts that support 
people with disabilities and empower them to fully engage in 
their communities. From your time at SSA, how can the agency 
better publicize and educate beneficiaries and their families 
about these accounts?

    Response:

    While SSA does provide information on ABLE Accounts, for 
example on the Agency's website,\3\ the Agency could do a 
better job promoting the benefits of ABLE accounts through 
targeted outreach to the SSI community. In a 2023 research 
paper by the Center for Financial Security at the University of 
Wisconsin-Madison, researchers documented "...an array of 
barriers, including financial constraints as well as diverse 
administrative burdens and misperceptions, that deter eligible 
persons from opening ABLE accounts."\4\ Lack of understanding 
and awareness of ABLE accounts was one of the key findings of 
the report, leading to a recommendation that "...state 
administrators might offer stronger campaigns to increase 
overall awareness of ABLE."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/spotlights/spot-able.html & https://
choosework.ssa.gov/blog/2023-08-22-able-accounts-what-you-should-
know.html
    \4\ https://rdrc.wisc.edu/files/working-papers/WI23-10--Working-
Paper--Pollack-et-al--4.24.pdf

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Senator Elizabeth Warren


    Question:

    During the hearing, you mentioned that the Social Security 
Administration (SSA) under the current administration has hid 
metrics from its operational meetings. What metrics has the 
agency concealed, and what do these metrics show? Please list 
the metrics that are no longer being reported and the function 
they have.
    Under which commissioner, did SSA stop releasing these 
metrics? Have past administrations released these metrics, and 
if so, which ones? How does concealing these metrics impact the 
agency's functions and Americans' ability to interact with SSA?

    Response:

    Unfortunately, I have not kept records on SSA's reporting 
of operational metrics overtime, nor by individual 
commissioners. During my testimony, I mentioned that Acting 
Commissioner Lee Dudek was posting SSA operational meetings to 
SSA's YouTube channel\5\ and offering metrics online, including 
real-time data on hold times and callback times on the 800 
number.\6\ These posts were removed from YouTube shortly after 
Commissioner Frank Bisignano took office. News articles have 
reported some of the information that was presented during 
these meetings.\7\ I personally found this type of disclosure 
to be of benefit to the public. The real-time metrics on the 
800 number were a laudable improvement in the ability of the 
American public to interact with SSA to allow them to make an 
informed decision about when to call the agency or to schedule 
an appointment. The loss of this level of detailed public 
disclosure, as well as the manner in which it was transmitted 
via YouTube videos, is loss of that may make it more difficult 
for the public to view and understand the critical challenges 
now facing the agency. This loss not only impacts the public, 
but also impacts Congress, which could provide oversight, 
instructions, or dedicated funding to address customer service 
challenges.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ https://www.youtube.com/@SocialSecurity/playlists
    \6\ https://www.ssa.gov/news/en/press/releases/2025-03-24.html
    \7\ See for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/16/us/
politics/doge-social-security.html & https://www.londondisability.com/
ssas-push-for-transparency-youtube-videos-and-more-what-it-means-for-
your-disability-claim & https://www.youtube.com/shorts/P0--8GK--JJnY 
(accessed April 11, 2026).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Question:

    How is SSA deploying call-sharing - or the redirecting of a 
call meant for a local field to a field office in a different 
region - on its national 1-800 hotline?
    Have the older Americans that your organization works with 
reported having their calls redirected, and if so, how does 
this mechanism impact their ability to talk to an SSA 
representative and have their question resolved?

    Response:

    Based on what's been reported, SSA now shifts calls from 
one field office to another once they go unanswered for a 
certain period of time. Other organizations have been 
publishing reports about SSA customer service metrics, 
including the 800 number.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/trump-
administration-personnel-policies-harming-social-security-customer

    Katie Savin, also a Fellow at the National Academy of 
Social Insurance (NASI),\9\ has been quoted in the New York 
Times,\10\ about how staffing reductions at SSA have made it 
difficult for claimants to get customer service assistance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ https://www.nasi.org/fellows/
    \10\ https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/24/business/social-security-
customer-service.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Question:

    Have the older Americans that your organization works with 
reported increases in the wait time for scheduling an in-person 
appointment at an SSA field office?
    If so, how many days are they waiting for an appointment, 
on average?
    Response:

    Unfortunately, I do not personally have any direct 
knowledge or information to be able to answer this question. 
SSA does report wait times on its website.\11\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ https://www.ssa.gov/ssa-performance

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Question:

    Reports indicate that the drastic staff cuts the 
administration has made at SSA have forced some rural field 
offices to close. Has your organization heard of any SSA field 
offices closing completely under the current administration - 
or having such limited capacity due to staff cuts that they are 
unable to perform their usual services and are effectively 
closed?

    Response:

    I am not aware of any field offices being permanently 
closed as of this time. SSA occasionally temporarily closes 
field offices to deal with maintenance or other issues and then 
reopens those offices once the issues have been resolved. The 
last SSA public notice I am aware of is dated March 27, 
2025.\12\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ https://www.ssa.gov/blog/en/posts/2025-03-27-b.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                 U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging

            "Experience Matters: Seniors and the Workforce"

                             March 25, 2026

                        Questions for the Record

                               Dan Adcock

                   Ranking Member Kirsten Gillibrand

    Question:

    Your organization was closely involved in the successful 
and bipartisan effort to reform the Retirement Earnings Test 
during the Clinton administration. What would you advise 
policymakers to take into account when considering repeal in 
this era?

    Response:

    Earlier claiming reduces monthly benefits for life, 
especially if people do not fully understand the adjustment, 
which has implications for old-age benefit adequacy. In fact, 
the misunderstanding that benefits reduced by the Retirement 
Earnings Test are "lost" continues to be a problem to this day. 
For the current proposal to repeal the RET for 62- to 66-year-
olds, claiming decisions are more consequential for long-term 
benefit adequacy since early claim results in much lower 
lifetime benefits.
    Finally, the administrative burden of the 2000 RET repeal 
was real. The need to track earnings, withhold, and later 
recompute benefits cost SSA on the order of hundreds of 
millions of dollars annually in operations and contributed to 
beneficiaries' confusion. Given that mass staff reductions at 
SSA and flat funding has hollowed out the agency, it is hard to 
see how SSA could absorb the administrative requirements of 
repealing the RET for 62- to 66-year-olds.

    Question:

    In your view, why ultimately did Congress elect to retain 
elements of the Retirement Earnings Test, and are any of those 
considerations still valid today?

    Response:

    Repeal of the RET was promoted as a way of increasing 
participation in the workforce by older workers, much as the 
current effort to eliminate the RET for those between ages 62 
and 66 is proposed. However, research has shown that, while 
elimination of the RET does result in some additional workforce 
participation, it also would result in a significant number of 
workers who claim their Social Security benefit early. This 
decision to claim early has two major consequences - 
permanently reduced benefits for those workers least able to 
afford to lose this income, and potentially accelerated 
insolvency of the Social Security Trust Funds. Both of these 
concerns would have been known to the authors of the 2000 RET 
repeal and presumably influenced their decision to retain the 
RET for those claiming benefits at ages 62 to 66.

    Question:

    Do you see any potential positive outcomes from a renewed 
repeal initiative?

    Response:

    We know from seniors we have talked to at townhall meetings 
across the country that repealing the rest of the Retirement 
Earnings Test would be popular. In some cases, claiming 
decisions motivated by repealing the RET might benefit some 
people but before this legislation is approved and enacted, 
Congress must determine if there are ways to mitigate the 
permanent loss of benefits for those workers and their families 
who might be hurt by the change (like improving survivor 
benefits), if there are really jobs available for people ages 
62 to 66 when age discrimination in employment is pervasive, 
and what will be the short term impact on Social Security Trust 
Fund solvency if the RET is repealed.

    Question:

    How can we best protect and strengthen Social Security for 
retirees, the disabled, and survivors, and what should we bear 
in mind regarding the program's annual cost-of-living 
adjustments, particularly at a time of soaring costs for 
Americans?
    Response:

    The best way to protect and strengthen Social Security for 
retirees, the disabled, and survivors, as well as for all 
workers and their families, is by extending Social Security 
solvency and improving benefits by finally making the wealthy 
pay their fair share in FICA contributions. Because of decades 
of stagnate middle class wages, income inequality and the 
erosion of employer sponsored retirement benefits, a growing 
share of Americans will depend on Social Security for all or 
most of their income in retirement. That's why any conversation 
about Social Security reform must include benefit adequacy if 
the program is going to allow retirees to maintain a modest 
standard of living in retirement.
    The number one benefit improvement our members tell us 
would be to make the COLAs more accurate so that they take into 
consideration the disproportionate share of income seniors 
spend on out-of-pocket health care costs. Undervaluing the COLA 
has significant long-term impacts as its' effects compound over 
time. That leaves the oldest retirees, who presumably are the 
least able to work, and are the most likely to have exhausted 
any other resources and have the highest health care costs, 
with the deepest financial burden caused by years of 
underestimating the inflation they experience.

    Question:

    Last year, the Secretary of the Treasury stated that 
efforts to build wealth were viewed as "a backdoor to 
privatizing Social Security". However, Americans can best be 
served in retirement with support from both Social Security and 
private savings. In your view, how can Congress move the needle 
on expanding access for the millions of Americans currently 
shut out of the retirement system?

    Response:

    There are many proposals - some well-meaning - that would 
help workers save for retirement. It is commendable that 
lawmakers are trying to fill the gap in retirement savings left 
by some employers that don't help their employees plan for 
their golden years. Part of the challenge remains that so many 
workers are struggling to simply afford the daily costs of 
living, that even when retirement savings plans are offered by 
their employers, they simply do not feel they have enough 
disposable income to take advantage of them but the wheel does 
not have to be reinvented if we have a highly successful 
retirement program that could be enhanced if benefits were 
improved - and that program is Social Security.

                        Senator Elizabeth Warren


    Question:

    Has the insolvency of the Social Security trust fund been 
accelerated under the current Trump administration?
    If so, what actions taken by the administration have 
contributed to this acceleration?

    Response:

    The One Big Beautiful Bill Act included a temporary 
additional deduction of $6,000 per eligible individual age 65+ 
through 2028. Because of how this tax cut indirectly results in 
less taxation of Social Security benefits and since this 
taxation helps fund benefits, the trust fund will receive $30 
billion less revenue a year which will accelerate insolvency.

    Question:

    Do you expect the unprecedented levels of workforce 
reductions at SSA, and the ripple effects these reductions have 
had on key agency services, to also contribute to accelerating 
the trust fund's insolvency?

    Response:

    Potentially, yes. We have heard from some people in their 
60s that they have claimed benefits earlier than planned 
because of what might happen to the program as a result of the 
mass staff reductions and chaos caused by DOGE at SSA. The next 
Social Security Trustees Report may show whether such early 
claiming is having an impact on solvency.
    While not related to accelerating solvency, we are 
concerned that the DOGE staff cuts and mayhem at SSA could 
soften public support for the program which would make it 
easier for some lawmakers to enact legislation to cut earned 
benefits.
    Question:

    How is SSA deploying call-sharing - or the redirecting of a 
call meant for a local field to a field office in a different 
region - on its national 1-800 hotline?
    Have the older Americans that your organization works with 
reported having their calls redirected, and if so, how does 
this mechanism impact their ability to talk to an SSA 
representative and have their question resolved?

    Response:

    The National Committee has not heard from members about 
redirection because they may not even know it is happening and 
it only becomes apparent when the caller is ill-advised and 
shows up at their local field office. In other words, if a call 
is redirected, the SSA employee does not say where they are 
physically, so the claimant/beneficiary has no idea and that 
adds to the risk of not knowing local information (e.g., 
claimant/beneficiary's local records, state taxation of 
benefits, etc.) and this is all very compounded by the 
reassignment of SSA personnel into these front-line jobs by 
staff not properly trained or acclimated. Very general 
questions work well with call redirection, but specific, 
personal issues do not and the consequences of bad information 
can be huge.
    As for the reassigned SSA staff, whatever work they did in 
their former jobs is likely to be neglected, particularly 
because of the mass staff reductions. For example, the SSDI 
backlog will grow if adjudication staff were reassigned to the 
national call center. Likewise, overpayments could become a 
greater problem if operations staff are now answering calls.

    Question:

    Have the older Americans that your organization works with 
reported increases in the wait time for scheduling an in-person 
appointment at an SSA field office?
    If so, how many days are they waiting for an appointment, 
on average?

    Response:

    We don't have a good number from our members about how much 
wait times have increased, but what we hear anecdotally is that 
beneficiaries are waiting months for an appointment.

    Question:

    Reports indicate that the drastic staff cuts the 
administration has made at SSA have forced some rural field 
offices to close. Has your organization heard of any SSA field 
offices closing completely under the current administration - 
or having such limited capacity due to staff cuts that they are 
unable to perform their usual services and are effectively 
closed?

    Response:

    While the SSA website lists multiple field office closures 
in 2025, some field offices still open are effectively closed 
because many of their staffers were let go by the DOGE mass 
staff cuts. That means seniors and people with disabilities - 
many with mobility issues - are traveling farther and waiting 
longer for an appointment at a field office.

                        Senator Raphael Warnock


    Question:

    Since January 2025, the Trump administration has cut more 
than 7,000 Social Security Administration (SSA) employees, and 
Georgia lost nearly 10 percent of its SSA workforce between 
Fiscal Year 2024-2025. Due to limited workforce, older 
Georgians must wait weeks to schedule an appointment with the 
SSA field office and an average of 11 months for their 
disability claims.
    How can Congress improve the SSA workforce capacity and 
address the declining quality of customer service in states 
like Georgia?

    Response:

    Because the appropriation process tends to be bipartisan in 
the Senate - unlike the House - there are more opportunities 
for Democratic Senators to call for increasing appropriations 
for SSA and for including instructions in the Labor-HHS 
appropriations bill for SSA to more adequately staff field 
offices, including in Georgia.

    Question:

    According to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, 
the average driving-age person in the South will pay $39 more 
per month in higher gas prices, compared to $34 nationally or 
$24 in the Northeast. Food prices have also increased by over 
23 percent compared to 2020, and nearly 10 percent of Georgians 
age 65 and older are food insecure. Seniors in Georgia are 
facing a calculus of whether they will have enough money, 
through Social Security or savings, to retire.
    What steps can Congress take to address the concern over 
rising costs of living among seniors and ensure older Georgians 
have a pathway to a financially secure retirement?

    Response:

    Congress can enact legislation that would base Social 
Security cost-of-living adjustments (COLAs) on a fully 
developed Consumer Price Index for the Elderly (CPI-E). The 
CPI-E would more accurately measure the spending patterns of 
seniors, including the disproportionate share of income they 
spend on out-of-pocket health care expenses. Georgia seniors 
could also better afford rising costs if Congress passed S. 
3078, the Social Security Emergency Inflation Relief Act which 
would increase Social Security benefits by $200 per month.     
=======================================================================

                       Statements for the Record

=======================================================================

[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                          [all]