[Senate Hearing 119-407]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 119-407


                  HEARING TO EXAMINE S. 3135, THE COLD 
                     WEATHER DIESEL RELIABILITY ACT

=======================================================================



                                HEARING

                               before the

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 11, 2026
                               __________
                               

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works




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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

             SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Chairman
            SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island, Ranking Member

KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming           JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah                 EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina    MARK KELLY, Arizona
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 ALEX PADILLA, California
PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska              ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi         LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               ANGELA D. ALSOBROOKS, Maryland
JON HUSTED, Ohio


               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                  Dan Dudis, Democratic Staff Director
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                            C O N T E N T S

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                             MARCH 11, 2026
                             
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     1
Whitehouse, Hon. Sheldon, U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode 
  Island.........................................................     2
Sullivan, Hon. Dan, U.S. Senator from the State of Alaska........     5

                               WITNESSES

Anderson, Ryan, Commissioner, Alaska Department of Transportation 
  and Public Facilities..........................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................    10
Fornstrom, Todd, President, Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation.......    19
    Prepared statement...........................................    21
    Responses to additional questions from Senator Whitehouse....    26
Walke, John, Director for Clear Air Programs and Senior Attorney, 
  Natural Resources Defense Council..............................    27
    Prepared statement...........................................    29
    Responses to additional questions from Senator Whitehouse....    57

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

Article from Greenwire: Sean Reilly; Air pollution spikes as 
  Trump doubles down on coal power...............................    65
Letter to Senator Sullivan from the National Federation of 
  Independent Business...........................................    82
Letter to Senator Capito and Senator Whitehouse from National 
  Consumers League...............................................    83
Statement from Engine Technology Forum on Diesel Engine Emissions 
  Control........................................................    86
DEF testimonials from various individuals........................    89








 
                  HEARING TO EXAMINE S. 3135, THE COLD 
                     WEATHER DIESEL RELIABILITY ACT

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 11, 2026

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    WEDNESDAY, MARCH 11, 2026
    U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works 
Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m. in 
room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Shelley Moore 
Capito (chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Capito, Whitehouse, Lummis, Sullivan, 
Ricketts, Padilla, Alsobrooks.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Good morning, and thank you all for being 
here. I appreciate it.
    Today, we will be receiving testimony on S. 3135, the Cold 
Weather Diesel Reliability Act, sponsored by Senators Sullivan, 
Lummis, Curtis and Murkowski. This legislation is meant to 
address a serious safety issue for drivers of diesel trucks and 
equipment in certain parts of our Country. I know two of our 
witnesses have traveled very far today, and I appreciate you 
all being here.
    Since 2010, to comply with EPA vehicle emissions 
regulations for toxic gas mixture (NOx), most new diesel 
engines have used a technology known as selective catalytic 
reduction or SCR. SCR is an emissions control system that 
sprays diesel exhaust fluid, or DEF, into the vehicle's exhaust 
stream to reduce NOx emissions.
    To maintain the proper function of the emissions control 
system, drivers must continuously refill the vehicle with DEF. 
To ensure compliance with emissions standards, the EPA requires 
manufacturers to install on-board diagnostic sensors that 
detect when NOx emissions are too high, signaling that the 
vehicle is out of DEF.
    When the sensor detects an issue, it triggers the engine 
controls and software to severely limit an engine's performance 
through what is called a derate. That is about as technical as 
I am going to get with you. When the vehicle derates, it cannot 
go faster than five miles per hour.
    However, vehicle derates are not limited to instances when 
the vehicle is out of DEF, but occurs at any time when the 
emissions control technology is not functioning correctly. 
Emissions sensor failures can cause these restrictions, as well 
as prolonged cold weather, which can freeze DEF and prevent it 
from entering the exhaust system.
    No matter the reason, if the sensor detects an emissions 
system malfunction, a driver has just 4 hours to fix the 
problem before the five mile per hour restriction kicks in. 
This system response in rural and cold weather regions can and 
has resulted in farmers' tractors shutting down in the middle 
of a field during harvest season or stranded truckers in sub-
zero temperatures on isolated roads in northern parts of the 
Country.
    In 2021, sensor failures led to thousands of trucks across 
the Country being derated and thus out-of-service without an 
immediate solution. To address this issue in emergency 
vehicles, such as fire trucks and ambulances, in 2012, the EPA 
exempted emergency vehicles from this requirement when 
responding to an emergency.
    The Cold Weather Diesel Reliability Act takes a similar 
approach by authorizing manufacturers to override the system in 
targeted cold weather environments. By exempting diesel engine 
derates in Alaska and other parts of rural America, where so 
many folks rely on diesel trucks and equipment for their 
livelihood and transportation needs, the bill seeks to address 
this critical safety issue.
    I want to thank my colleagues for championing safety in 
transportation and working to address the unique needs of 
Alaska, Wyoming and other cold weather States.
    I would also like to thank the Trump administration for 
recognizing the importance of protecting America's farmers and 
truckers. Last year, EPA Administrator Zeldin issued guidance 
to allow more flexibility and longer warning times before 
derates occur, and is gathering information to help fix this 
safety problem.
    I look forward to this topic, and I will now recognize 
Senator Whitehouse for his opening statement.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND

    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
    I am happy to discuss the diesel engine issue that Senator 
Sullivan and Senator Lummis are concerned about. We also have 
to remember the last 14 months of Trump-Zeldin attacks on the 
bedrock policies that protect clean air and a safe and livable 
climate. They merit even greater attention as they harm every 
single American.
    Before the 1970 Clean Air Act, air pollution in the United 
States was at crisis levels. Smog blanketed large parts of the 
Country. In the 1950's, scientists discovered that vehicle 
emissions were a primary cause of smog. Vehicle tailpipes 
coughed out a long list of dangerous pollutants, including 
nitrogen oxides, usually referred to as NOx.
    NOx causes lung disease, reproductive issues, birth 
defects, kidney problems, nerve damage, autoimmune disease, and 
cancer. NOx is the primary cause of smog formation.
    The smog of the post-war era seems like ancient history to 
us now, because the passage of the Clean Air Act drove down the 
primary smog-causing pollutants by nearly 80 percent. Title II 
of the Act requires EPA to set standards which drive down 
vehicle emissions. In response, manufacturers invented and 
implemented groundbreaking emissions control systems, including 
the system at issue today, which dramatically reduces NOx 
emissions from diesel vehicles.
    Diesel vehicles are a major cause of NOx pollution. In 
fact, diesel vehicles alone emit 27 percent of all NOx 
pollution nationwide. Diesel vehicles are equipped with an 
emissions control system powered by diesel emissions fluid, 
DEF, which breaks down NOx into nitrogen and water and reduces 
dangerous emissions by 90 percent.
    Senator Sullivan will shortly introduce his bill, the Cold 
Weather Diesel Reliability Act. I appreciate his interest in 
advocating for his constituents, many of whom live in remote 
areas and experience extreme temperatures.
    This bill may target a problem that the EPA has already 
largely addressed and manufacturers have already adapted to. We 
will hear more. The potential for diesel emissions control 
systems to fail below 12 degrees Fahrenheit from a cold start 
is a known issue that has already been successfully addressed 
by EPA in 2009 and again last year.
    In both cases, EPA directed engine manufacturers to allow 
the vehicle to drive on for some distance. Now, with a software 
update distance is up to 8,400 miles before the engine derates 
in response to a sensor telling it the NOx control system is 
malfunctioning.
    While the vehicle is driving, my understanding is that heat 
from the engine keeps the DEF liquid, that is unless the DEF 
tank is empty or malfunctioning, or in the case of catastrophic 
engine failure unrelated to the DEF. There are examples we will 
hear about of circumstances where truck engines derate. EPA is 
currently working on updates to the existing NOx standards for 
heavy duty vehicles. Just this month, the agency issued letters 
to the top 14 diesel manufacturers, demanding relevant 
information on DEF failures.
    While EPA continues to address this issue, under President 
Trump and Administrator Zeldin, it has completely abdicated any 
and all responsibility to protect everyone's air and climate. 
In just the last 14 months EPA has rescinded its greenhouse gas 
tailpipe emission standards, a recission that by EPA's own 
estimate will cost consumers at least $580 billion and up to 
$1.4 trillion at the gas pump.
    That is money directly out of Americans' pockets and into 
the coffers of Trump's Big Oil donors. As the price of gasoline 
skyrockets due to Trump's war of choice in Iran, that transfer 
to wealth from Americans to Big Oil will only grow.
    Two, EPA has rescinded the greenhouse gas Endangerment 
Finding, defying the law, scientific evidence, and the lived 
experiences of millions of Americans. Climate change is already 
driving up the costs of property insurance, groceries, and 
electricity across the Country, and EPA's retreat from its 
regulatory duties will turbocharge existing climateflation.
    Three, EPA has handed out dozens of regulatory exemptions 
to coal plants, letting them spew toxic mercury at will and 
raising the costs to consumers.
    EPA has rolled back the Mercury and Air Toxics Rule, 
dramatically lowering standards for emissions of mercury and 
other highly dangerous and often carcinogenic pollutants from 
power plants.
    Five, EPA has decided not to count the health costs 
associated with certain air pollutants, and to only count costs 
to industry when they undertake their rulemaking cost-benefit 
analysis. The message is clear: costs to industry donors 
matter; costs to the public do not.
    EPA is not enforcing regulations that are still in place. 
This is No. 6. Last year, EPA pursued 75 percent fewer legal 
actions against alleged polluters than it did in the first year 
of Biden's first term, and 81 percent fewer than the first year 
of Trump's own first term in 2017.
    Twenty twenty-five also saw a 36 percent decline in toxic 
substances inspections, and a 29 percent drop in average 
penalties from 2024.
    There is a common theme here: polluters win. All these 
actions are being taken so that Trump's fossil fuel donors will 
be able to sell more oil, gas, and coal. All of these actions 
cost Americans, all Americans, lots of money. Property 
insurance premiums are skyrocketing across Country, 
particularly along the Southeast and Gulf coasts, across the 
mountain west, and in the hail belt of the Great Plains.
    In these places, many homeowners have seen their premiums 
double or triple in just the last several years. Many others 
have been dropped by their insurance company altogether as 
uninsurable.
    Unaffordable and unavailable property insurance portends a 
deep recession, similar to 2008, as property values crash. The 
Economist magazine predicted a $25 trillion hit to property 
values around the world. Fed Chair Powell noted last year 
before the Senate Banking Committee that climate risks will 
render entire regions of the United States uninsurable and 
therefore un-mortgageable in 10 to 15 years.
    Food prices are being driven higher by extreme weather. 
Coffee, sugar, orange juice, chocolate, olive oil, are just a 
few of the goods that have seen their prices spike in recent 
years due to unconstrained climate change.
    As storms along the Gulf Coast and wildfires out west 
become more frequent and severe, electricity prices have risen 
in those parts of the Country. Natural Resource Defense Council 
(NRDC) estimates that pollution from fossil fuel combustion 
results in more than $800 billion in added healthcare costs a 
year in the United States.
    Under Trump and Zeldin, all of these things will get worse 
as they allow more and more and more and more pollution. This 
committee would do well to examine how a corrupt EPA is harming 
all Americans, in addition to the matter at hand.
    Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse.
    I will now turn it over to Senator Sullivan for his remarks 
on the bill we are discussing this morning, and to introduce 
our first witness, Ryan Anderson.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DAN SULLIVAN, 
             U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ALASKA

    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair, and my good 
friend, Ranking Member Whitehouse. After that opening 
statement, I get the sense you are going to support my bill but 
maybe not some of the other things. We will get there.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Whitehouse. I am always happy to work with you, 
Senator Sullivan.
    Senator Sullivan. I know. We have a very good working 
relationship.
    Madam Chair, I really appreciate you holding this hearing 
on my legislation that would fix an issue that I am hearing 
from dozens of Alaskans I represent. It is more than just 
Alaskans. It is constituents, Americans, in many other States 
that have cold weather.
    As I mentioned, this is a problem my constituents brought 
directly to my office, and it is really about another EPA 
mandate that does not reflect the real world that impacts so 
many people outside of D.C., and in Alaska can literally be a 
matter of life and death.
    You have already explained it, Madam Chair. I will expound 
a little bit more on the EPA emission rules that required 
nearly all new diesel engines during the Obama administration 
to install emissions control systems that used diesel exhaust 
fluid, or DEF. To enforce compliance, EPA also required 
manufacturers to program automatic ``derate'' safeguards that 
limit engine power or even shut down the vehicle if the system 
detects a problem, such as low DEF levels or a malfunction in 
the emissions equipment.
    As often happens, the people hit with these one-size-fits-
all regulations from D.C. are not the D.C. lawyers who wrote 
them, it is the truck drivers, mechanics, and equipment 
operators, farmers out on remote highways, doing the hard work 
that keeps our communities supplied and our economy moving.
    Why do I say that? DEF freezes at just 12 degrees 
Fahrenheit. Modern trucks have heaters to thaw them once the 
engine starts, and in normal winter conditions, those heaters 
generally do their job.
    In places like Alaska, temperatures do not just dip below 
freezing for a few hours. They can stay well below negative 20 
degrees at a time for weeks. As our witness, Ryan Anderson, is 
going to testify, we have had a very cold winter in Alaska, 20, 
30, 40, 50 below zero for weeks on end in many communities in 
my State.
    When that happens, the emissions system can stay too cold 
to reach ready status. The extreme cold can affect the sensors, 
pumps, and heaters that the emission systems depend on. The 
sensors think that something is wrong, even when the engine 
itself is running just fine.
    The truck's computer reads that as a fault and starts 
reducing power, slowing down to as slow as five miles per hour. 
Then in some instances, shutting off the engine. When that 
happens in a city, it is an inconvenience. When it happens on a 
remote highway in Alaska, where there is no cell service and 
the nearest help might be hundreds of miles away, it becomes a 
serious safety risk. Literally a matter of life and death.
    Don't just take my word for it. One of the calls my office 
received that led directly to this legislation came from a 
trucking company operating on the Dalton Highway. That is what 
we call the Haul Road, the only road that goes up to Alaska's 
North Slope. Think of the show, Ice Road Truckers. That is the 
road. Those are the truck drivers. It is the economic lifeline 
of Alaska.
    One of their drivers was hauling north toward Prudhoe Bay, 
the biggest oil field in North America, during a blizzard. 
Temperatures were negative 45 degrees below zero. That is 
without wind chill. It was gusting at over 60 miles an hour, so 
the wind chill was probably in the 70 to 80 degree below zero 
temperature.
    The truck was practically brand new and properly 
winterized. Near Atigun Pass, the truck suddenly lost power 
when the DEF crystallized, and the sensors registered a fault. 
The driver went from highway speed to crawling along at about 
five miles an hour in the middle of a blizzard while hauling a 
heavy load through mountain terrain.
    There is no cell service on most of the Dalton Highway. He 
had to call dispatch on a satellite phone while idling in the 
brutal wind chills just to keep the truck from freezing solid. 
Not moving.
    Hours later, many hours later, another driver finally 
reached him and helped him. He survived, but the load had to be 
dropped, and the company paid about $15,000 just to tow the 
truck back to Fairbanks.
    Madam Chair, stories like these are not unusual in Alaska. 
I hear them all the time from truckers and equipment operators 
and small businesses that rely on diesel equipment to do their 
jobs. I would like to submit for the record these several 
additional testimonials from my constituents about exactly this 
problem.
    Senator Capito. Without objection, so ordered.
    Senator Sullivan. These are the men and women, by the way, 
who keep our Country moving. They haul food, fuel, and the 
supplies that keep communities running. They produce American 
energy on the North Slope of Alaska, still the largest oil and 
gas fields in the Country, which we need right now.
    What they are telling us is simple: the rules coming out of 
Washington do not reflect the reality they face on the ground. 
In Alaska, these failures can leave someone stranded in 50-
below zero weather, hours away from help. This is a compliance 
trap, and it is dangerous.
    My bill brings some common sense into the system. It 
directs the EPA to update its regulations to account for 
extreme cold and allows manufacturers to temporarily suspend 
automatic derate or shutdown functions during those extreme 
cold weather conditions. Common sense.
    I am committed to working with the manufacturers, 
regulators, and the trucking industry, and of course, my 
colleagues here, to get this right. We have to start by 
listening to the people who are actually living with these 
everyday problems and not ignoring them.
    That is what my bill does. It listens to the working men 
and women of our Country who keep our Country and economy 
running and makes sure that Federal policy reflects the reality 
they actually face on the road.
    With that, speaking of roads in Alaska, Madam Chair, I am 
very honored to introduce the Alaska Department of 
Transportation Commissioner, Ryan Anders. I have known Ryan, he 
has been a friend of mine, I have known him for many years.
    Commissioner Anderson has spent the last 25 years working 
for the State of Alaska. He moved to Alaska in 1993 and 
attended the University of Alaska Fairbanks, where he earned a 
degree in geological engineering. He also earned his 
professional civil engineering license in 2003.
    Before becoming Commissioner in 2022, he served for 6 years 
as the Alaska Department of Transportation Northern Region 
Director, an area, by the way, larger than the State of Texas, 
that stretches from the Gulf of Alaska to the Arctic Ocean and 
from the Bering Sea to the Canadian border.
    In that role, he oversaw construction, maintenance, and 
emergency response across some of the coldest and most remote 
terrain anywhere in the United States. Commissioner Anderson 
brings decades of on-the-ground experience managing 
infrastructure, equipment, and people in extreme Arctic 
conditions, which makes his perspective particularly valuable 
to today's discussion.
    Thank you again, Commissioner, for traveling about 4,000 
miles to come to this hearing. It is always an honor to work 
with you, and we want to work with you to keep Alaska's 
transportation system operating under some of the toughest 
conditions anywhere in the world, safe and effective.
    With that, I will ask the Commissioner to make his 
statement.
    Senator Capito. That is good. I will just welcome Mr. 
Anderson, and thank you for being here. You are now recognized 
for 5 minutes. Thank you, Senator Sullivan.

STATEMENT OF RYAN ANDERSON, COMMISSIONER, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF 
              TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC FACILITIES

    Mr. Anderson. Thank you, Senator.
    Chair, Ranking Member, and members of the committee, thank 
you for the opportunity to testify today. As the Senator said, 
my name is Ryan Anderson, and I serve as the Commissioner of 
the Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities.
    Our department maintains Alaska's statewide transportation 
system, highways, airports, we have marine facilities. We 
connect facilities across Alaska, one of the largest and remote 
transportation systems in the Nation.
    I have worked at Alaska DOT for more than 25 years, and I 
am here to share the challenges facing the operators and 
transportation providers who keep people, freight, and 
essential supplies moving across Alaska.
    Transportation systems in Alaska operate through some of 
the longest and most severe winters in the United States. In 
most of our State, winter conditions last 6 months or more. If 
you go into the Arctic, these conditions last months of the 
year. In interior Alaska, temperatures often fall between minus 
30 degrees below zero Fahrenheit to minus 50 degrees below zero 
Fahrenheit. This past winter, we had temperatures minus 60 
degrees below zero Fahrenheit.
    During these times, crews work through darkness, they work 
through powerful storms, extreme cold, and they are often 
working independently where help can be many hours away by road 
or by air. Aviation is a lifeline across Alaska. More than 250 
rural communities do not have road access. From food and mail 
to medical supplies, even medevacs, they arrive by aircraft.
    When storm removal equipment fails, runways can close until 
repairs are made, delaying flights carrying freight, essential 
supplies, as well as delaying the emergency medical 
evacuations.
    Alaska's environment already puts people at risk. Now, 
imagine if critical equipment that we rely on to reduce these 
risks is not reliable. In Alaska, reliable equipment is not 
just an operational issue. It is a life safety issue for us.
    Unfortunately, the reliability of the modern diesel 
emission system is making this already challenging operating 
environment even more difficult. Across Alaska, operators are 
reporting failures tied to diesel exhaust fluid and related 
emissions control systems during sustained cold weather 
operations. These systems can freeze, malfunction, or trigger 
automatic engine derates, as was discussed.
    In most places, that might mean a quick trip to the repair 
shop. In Alaska, when equipment loses power in extremely cold 
and remote areas, the consequences are far more dangerous. 
These situations are not hypothetical, they are happening today 
on Alaska's highways where professional drivers are moving the 
fuel, food, and industrial supplies that communities across our 
State depend on.
    For our department alone, emissions control systems have 
become the single largest source of maintenance failures 
affecting our diesel fleet. Our fleet director estimates that 
70 to 80 percent of diesel engine maintenance issues over the 
past 2 years are related to emissions control systems.
    On any given day, 10 to 30 percent of our heavy equipment 
fleet may be unavailable for service because of these faults. 
In one recent case, a maintenance unit had to be hauled more 
than 500 miles for repairs after an emission system failure. 
That single failure resulted in more than $45,000 in added 
operating and equipment cost, and the equipment was out of 
service for a full year.
    In one rural Alaska community, a runway was temporarily 
closed after snow removal equipment experienced an emissions 
systems malfunction. There was no mechanic in the community, so 
parts and a technician had to be flown to an adjacent community 
and then transported by snow machine to get the runway back 
open and the equipment operational.
    Now, DOT is not alone. Commercial trucking companies, 
school transportation providers, fire departments, and the 
Alaska Railroad have all reported similar failures affecting 
operations. Transportation providers in interior Alaska have 
reported school buses experiencing DEF-related failures during 
extreme cold, forcing crews to respond immediately to move 
students off disabled buses and get them safely to school.
    Fire departments in some communities have also reported 
emergency vehicles sidelined by emissions systems failures . 
Repairing these failures in Alaska is far more difficult than 
in most places. In many rural communities, mechanics and 
diagnostic tools simply are not available nearby. When 
equipment fails, technicians and parts may have to travel 
hundreds of miles by aircraft or highway before repairs can 
even begin. In aviation-dependent communities, it can take days 
before a mechanic even arrives.
    Alaska operators are adapting. DOT is rebuilding older 
equipment to ensure reliable equipment operations. Our largest 
school bus operator is converting its fleet to gasoline 
engines. Fire departments are rebuilding older trucks to ensure 
emergency vehicles remain dependable in extreme cold.
    In Alaska, emissions system reliability problems are 
increasing life safety risk for operators, raising maintenance 
costs and reducing our ability to respond quickly when winter 
storms disrupt transportation routes. These impacts extend 
beyond our communities.
    Alaskans care deeply about clean air and protecting our 
environment. Policies designed for moderate climates must also 
work in the extreme conditions where our transportation systems 
operate.
    The Cold Weather Diesel Reliability Act provides a 
practical and targeted solution by recognizing the challenges 
of operating equipment in the sustained extreme cold.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Anderson follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
    I will now recognize Senator Lummis to introduce our next 
witness, Todd Fornstrom.
    Senator Lummis. Thank you, Madam Chairman and Ranking 
Member Whitehouse. I want to thank the members of the 
committee, certainly want to thank Senator Sullivan for 
sponsoring this bill.
    This subject came to my attention when a constituent of 
mine in Cheyenne, Wyoming, was imprisoned for fixing diesel 
engines so they would run in cold weather. He was imprisoned 
not because he broke the law, but because he broke a rule, a 
rule that was created back here in Washington, DC, where it 
never gets below zero, where it never gets below 10 degrees, by 
people who do not understand that there are other ways to 
protect the environment from NOx, other than this one device 
that they require.
    They required this one device, no alternatives, diesel 
mechanics have been trying to keep these diesel engines running 
by altering the required emissions control systems. Thank 
goodness, President Trump pardoned Troy Lake. It was an absurd 
result. You look at these big cities that are letting violent 
criminals go because they broke the law, and yet they threw a 
diesel mechanic, a good man, in prison because he is fixing 
diesel engines so they will run in cold weather, school buses, 
ambulances, trucks.
    I am just so offended that our Nation would do that to 
someone. You have constituents, Senator Sullivan, that are 
being prosecuted under that same law. Hopefully, they are not 
getting thrown in prison for it yet. My constituent was.
    There is a solution that can solve the air quality issues 
without shutting down the engines. That is why I am so grateful 
you are sponsoring this bill, Senator Sullivan, and I am 
grateful that my Farm Bureau president, Mr. Fornstrom, would 
come today and testify about this.
    Todd Fornstrom is a fourth-generation farmer from Pine 
Bluffs, Wyoming. He works the land there alongside his father. 
He runs his own trucking and combining businesses.
    His dedication to advancing and advocating Wyoming 
agriculture and the Farm Bureau has earned him the trust of our 
Farm Bureau members who have elected him to serve a ninth term 
as president.
    Farming is tough work. Sunrise to sunset, no days off, 
everything goes wrong Friday after 5 p.m. I know it from 
personal experience.
    Mr. Fornstrom brings first-hand experience with these 
issues. When the environmental policies that we invoke to 
protect our air makes it so we can not even run our equipment 
in cold weather, we have to find a solution. It can not be by 
electing Lee Zeldin to be the permanent director of the EPA. We 
know that the director is going to change. We know some day 
there is going to be a Democrat administration that is going to 
try to reverse everything that Lee Zeldin is doing at the EPA.
    That is why it has to be in law. We have to rationalize and 
bring common sense on issues that are being administered 
without any common sense. This is one of them.
    I am so delighted Mr. Fornstrom is here today He has 
personal experience operating in some of the harshest winter 
conditions in the Country, with heavy snowfall, high winds, 
temperatures very routinely below 20 degrees. We call that 
balmy, 20. When it gets below zero it is starting to get kind 
of cold. Those conditions present serious challenges for 
equipment and emissions systems designed without reality in 
mind.
    Mr. Fornstrom, thanks so much for coming. Thanks for your 
willingness to share your experience and perspectives with the 
committee today. I look forward to hearing your testimony.
    Thank you, Madam Chairman. I yield back.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Lummis.
    Mr. Fornstrom, thank you, and welcome. Please proceed with 
your statement.

  STATEMENT OF TODD FORNSTROM, PRESIDENT, WYOMING FARM BUREAU 
                           FEDERATION

    Mr. Fornstrom. Thank you.
    Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse, and members of 
the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today 
on the impact of diesel exhaust fluid, or DEF, on the 
agricultural community.
    My name is Todd Fornstrom. I am a fourth-generation farmer. 
I farm with my father outside of Pine Bluffs, Wyoming. We grow 
irrigated corn, wheat, alfalfa, and dry beans, which are pinto 
beans. I operate a pellet mill, Premium Hay Products. I have a 
combining business and now we have a trucking business. We stay 
busy.
    It is an honor to represent nearly 12,000 members of the 
Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation and nearly 5 million members of 
the American Farm Bureau.
    Farmers depend on clean air and clean water. The natural 
resources impact long-term productivity, which is why the Farm 
Bureau supports policies that balance environmental goals with 
the economic and operational results. However, the requirement 
of DEF in agriculture equipment has created significant 
challenges for farmers across the Country. While designed to 
improve the quality, operational and financial burdens for the 
agriculture sector have ben increased.
    DEF became widely used on farms following EPA's Tier 4 
emissions standards. Today, most large tractors, combines and 
sprayers all are required to have DEF to operate. Farmers have 
experienced several problems with the systems. Reliability in 
harsh operating conditions is a major concern.
    Farmers operate in extreme dust, dirt, temperature and 
constant vibration. These DEF systems included in the tanks, 
pumps and sensors can struggle in those environments.
    In cold climates like Wyoming, DEF can freeze. Although the 
machines have heaters designed to prevent this, the systems do 
malfunction. To keep those properly running, it is a major 
problem. If they fail, the engine can reduce power, or shut 
down entirely, often during critical periods such as planting, 
harvesting and feeding.
    The Cold Weather Diesel Reliability Act addresses some of 
these concerns. The legislation would allow manufacturers to 
suspend automatic engine derates or shutdowns caused by the DEF 
malfunctions while temperatures are at or below freezing. It 
would also exempt, for equipment, exemptions for equipment 
operating primarily in extremely cold regions. For farmers 
working in the harsh winter conditions, these changes are 
essential to maintaining reliable operations.
    Farmers also face contamination risk. DEF has to remain 
extremely pure to operate correctly. Farm environments are full 
of dust, dirt, and other contaminants. Even small amounts can 
cause system failures and shutdowns and costly repairs.
    These DEF systems rely heavily on electronic sensors. If a 
sensor detects a problem, the machine can still run most of the 
time, but most of the time it automatically reduces power and 
goes into a limp mode or a derate mode, or it shuts down 
altogether.
    While designed for emissions compliance, these systems can 
disrupt critical farm operations that depend on the equipment 
running continuously and for long hours. Beyond reliability 
concerns, DEF has added significant cost to farming operations. 
Farmers most regularly purchase DEF and invest in proper 
storage systems to prevent freezing and degradation, another 
added cost. Many operations have installed heated and insulated 
tanks and special dispensing equipment also.
    Maintenance and repair costs can also be substantial. 
Maintenance on sensors, injectors, are also expensive to fix. 
These costs come at a time when farmers are already facing 
rising input costs, volatile commodity prices and unpredictable 
weather.
    Profit margins in agriculture are already razor thin. These 
DEF requirements have added just another layer of financial and 
operational pressure.
    We appreciate the leadership of Senator Sullivan and 
Senator Lummis in introducing this legislation, which addresses 
the challenges DEF systems pose on these cold climates. The 
agricultural community believes that Congress should go further 
and carefully weigh the environmental benefits of DEF systems 
against the reliability issues and economic costs.
    Farmers are calling on the elimination of DEF requirements 
on agricultural equipment so producers can focus on 
productivity, efficiency, and feeding the Country.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look 
forward to answering any of your questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Fornstrom follows:]
    
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    Senator Capito. Thank you very much.
    Finally, we will hear from John Walke, the Director for 
Clean Air Programs, and Senior Attorney, at the Natural 
Resources Defense Council. Mr. Walke has spent his career in 
Washington, previously working at the EPA as an attorney in the 
General Counsel's office.
    He is, as I am, a graduate of Duke University. We are 
looking pretty good this year.
    Mr. Walke, welcome, and please proceed with your opening 
statement.

 STATEMENT OF JOHN WALKE, DIRECTOR FOR CLEAN AIR PROGRAMS AND 
       SENIOR ATTORNEY, NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL

    Mr. Walke. Thank you, Chairman Capito, and Ranking Member 
Whitehouse, for the opportunity to testify today.
    I will start my statement with some reasons why I do not 
support today's legislation. Then my statement will address 
where congressional engagement is needed most: conducting 
crucial oversight and pushbacks against an executive branch 
carrying out historically sweeping harmful attacks on 
Americans' health and air quality safeguards.
    Turning to S. 3135. In response to concerns relating to 
cold temperatures impacting the DEF system, EPA has directed 
manufacturers both to update onboard software and design 
engines to be able to run for periods of time without NOx 
controls and without entering the limp mode. Last month, EPA 
requested that manufacturers provide information to EPA within 
30 days on DEF system failures. A public process administered 
by EPA which would include public notice and comment 
opportunities can solicit important data and information and is 
the appropriate avenue to address all relevant issues.
    I am unaware of any other provision in the Clean Air Act 
that would exempt an entire State from any of the law's 
requirements, as today's bill would do, or exempt activities 
anywhere in the Country when it is ``impractical'' regardless 
of cold weather, because of the word ``or'' in the bill. I urge 
Congress not to start here.
    Next, EPA Administrator Zeldin boasts that he has 
undertaken the largest campaign of deregulation in U.S. 
history. Since then, EPA has proposed or finalized rules to 
roll back strong clean air protections that allow dangerous air 
pollution to increase by hundreds of millions of tons. Last 
year, U.S. power plants that burn coal increased dangerous air 
pollution by the second most that they have over the past 30 
years. Sulfur dioxide increased by 18 percent; smog-forming NOx 
nearly 12 percent.
    EPA data show that the average amount of coal-fired 
electricity generation was dirtier last year than in 2024, the 
result of more coal being burned to generate electricity and a 
sign that owners are dialing back or turning off pollution 
controls.
    An article just yesterday shows that EPA is refusing to 
tell Americans what factors might be behind these pollution 
spikes or how the increases are consistent with Administrator 
Zeldin's pledge to ensure clean air for all Americans. This 
committee should bring Administrator Zeldin before it to answer 
these questions and to examine his rollbacks and pollution 
increases.
    The following is just a partial list of dangerous EPA 
rollbacks. EPA plans to roll back health standards for deadly 
soot pollution and reinState unsafe standards. Independent 
scientists confirm that this type of pollution results in many 
thousands of preventable deaths and hundreds of thousands of 
cases of avoidable asthma attacks.
    Not coincidentally, EPA abruptly announced in January it 
will not longer value health benefits from clean air 
safeguards, and EPA will assign these important benefits zero 
dollars. EPA will only count industry compliance costs.
    President Trump himself has issued seven different 
proclamations across six industries exempting 180 facilities 
from hazardous air pollution standards. EPA has eliminated 
stronger standards for mercury and toxic soot pollution. EPA 
also repealed the need for continuous pollution monitors, after 
Administrator Zeldin found that $1,167 per month for each piece 
of polluting equipment cost too much to disclose to Americans 
how much toxic emissions are coming into their communities. 
Eleven hundred and sixty-seven dollars costs too much to 
improve pollution control performance in compliance.
    EPA plans to roll back carbon pollution standards for power 
plants, and they have already rolled back the endangerment 
finding for greenhouse gases and repealed motor vehicle 
standards as Senator Whitehouse said. This will mean annual 
increases of 410 million metric tons of greenhouse gases, 2.1 
million tons of carbon monoxide, and over 270,000 tons of smog 
pollution.
    A reporter asked President Trump at the vehicle rollback 
announcement what he would tell Americans concerned about the 
rollback coming at a cost to public health and the environment. 
The President replied, ``I tell them, do not worry about it, 
because it has nothing to do with public health.'' He 
misunderstood that the rule will cost Americans more, and he 
concluded, ``They'll have more money to spend for health 
care.''
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Walke follows:]
    
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    Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Walke.
    I am going to recognize myself and begin the questioning 
portion. My first question is for Mr. Anderson. I think many of 
us, I guess you call us in the lower 48, Wyoming understands, 
but I do not think we really understand. I mean, I do not think 
we can fully grasp what cold weather really is. We think it is 
cold here, but obviously, as you so described, it is nothing 
like what we see.
    We want to make sure that we have safe, efficient, reliable 
transportation for the people and goods in your State. What is 
different with respect to public safety between a diesel engine 
derate that might occur in Washington, DC, and one that could 
occur in the North Slope? You kind of alluded to this in your 
statement. How would you say that occurs differently in Alaska?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, thank you, Senator. I mean, I will use 
an example just from last night, when we got informed last 
night that the Dalton Highway, north of the Arctic Circle, 
closed again because of the powerful storm, wind, snow. It will 
be closed for probably well over 24 hours, just because that is 
the situation up there.
    Our crews immediately go to work, and for us, that is 
mobilizing the equipment that we have. We can not bring 
equipment from other locations. It will take us 6, 12, even 18 
hours if it is coming from Fairbanks.
    The real difference here is just that what we have and the 
resources that we have to work with for an event that happens 
and the response that is expected of us, of course, the Dalton 
Highway is that lifeline for the oil and gas industry and for 
the North Slope. It is our support arterial for the Trans-
Alaska Pipeline system.
    There is a lot of pressure on us by industry, and just that 
public safety piece, when people are stuck, it is not just our 
folks working, but it is the people who are trying to get 
through and get these materials and supplies delivered. Then 
the people on the other end that are waiting for them, that all 
get delayed.
    When we have equipment fail, there is a cascading impact 
across the State, across all of those industries, and the 
public.
    Senator Capito. How often do you hear from, how frequently 
are you hearing from people that are concerned or directly 
impacted by this? Is it frequent?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, thank you, Senator. Absolutely. I mean, 
just in the past, as Senator Sullivan's Cold Weather Diesel Act 
has become more known in Alaska, we have had enormous amounts 
of people reach out. It hasn't just been, so, we have our 
statewide equipment fleet of just thousands of pieces of 
equipment, but we also have the commercial trucking industry, 
enormous outreach from those companies, and that discussion 
about, hey, this is really needed.
    We are making significant investments into our older 
vehicles because we do not want to move forward with the newer 
vehicles. We have had fire departments come forward and say, 
this is a problem for when we are trying to do active response 
activities. The school bus companies have come forward. They 
are concerned, in rural Alaska, we are moving kids and it is 40 
below, in those school buses. They have examples of when 
failures have occurred.
    It really has been just across the board. Then the one, the 
Alaska Railroad reached out, the Alaska Railroad Board, as 
Commissioner, DOT, they reached out and said, yes, this is 
impactful for our operations as well.
    Senator Capito. Let me just, for somebody who is not as 
familiar with this issue, I am getting familiar, you mentioned 
school buses, emergency vehicles, your trucks. This can also be 
personal vehicles if they are powered by diesel, is that 
correct? Like a truck, F-150 or something like that?
    Mr. Anderson. Senator, yes, that is correct. Then a lot of 
folks in Alaska, when they have small pieces of heavy 
equipment, I mean, I just had an example just from yesterday, 
somebody reached out to me and they had a cabin our in rural 
Alaska and they had a small piece of diesel equipment out 
there. Of course, the system failed. They had to fly someone in 
with a helicopter to fix it.
    I mean, it is happening to people all across Alaska.
    Senator Capito. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Fornstrom, a farmer's livelihood obviously is closely 
tied, when we enumerated everything you do, I am like, I do not 
think this guy sleeps much. That is what you farmers have to 
do. You can not just do one thing. You have to do a lot of 
different things to keep--but anyway, you rely on a successful 
yield for each growing season. These yields are directly 
impacted, and you mentioned this in your statement, planting 
and harvesting and when that can occur.
    Could you say a little bit about the potential consequences 
of a derate for farmers during these kinds of seasons, when you 
are planting or harvesting?
    Mr. Fornstrom. Yes, I had an example, and this came to 
mind. We always, farmers, we are always looking for a good 
deal. I was at an auction looking for a piece of equipment. The 
farmer that was selling the tractor, I asked him how good it 
was, and told him what I wanted to use the tractor for. He was 
like, well, you do not want this one. If it goes into the 
derate mode, you will not be able to run your grain cart like 
you are wanting to.
    That just halts harvests to a stop.
    Senator Capito. Right.
    Mr. Fornstrom. It is eliminating some of this equipment 
from different operations that farmers do not want to deal 
with. They are choosing not to buy newer equipment.
    Senator Capito. Okay, thank you.
    Senator Whitehouse?
    Senator Whitehouse. Thanks very much, Chairman.
    I can not come to a hearing about the Clean Air Act, even 
on a very narrow topic, without having to try to reckon with 
the behavior of Trump's EPA. The general destruction and non-
enforcement of the Clean Air Act by this EPA is harmful to 
Americans, not only in their health but in their pocketbooks, 
and is, in my view, completely inconsistent with things that 
Administrator Zeldin said to this committee while he was 
seeking confirmation.
    The confirmed Zeldin and the seeking confirmation Zeldin 
are two very different creatures. I would ask unanimous consent 
that an article about the air pollution spikes that have 
resulted from his policies be admitted into the record.
    Senator Capito. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The referenced information follows:]
    
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    Senator Whitehouse. Things as simple as not counting health 
harms, only counting industry costs and a cost-benefit 
analysis, that does not even make sense. EPA willingly goes 
there. I am happy to work with Senator Sullivan and Senator 
Lummis on a sensible solution to this.
    It has to be founded in the recognition that this NOx 
pollution is actually dangerous. To over-permit NOx pollution 
from tailpipes is a harm of its own.
    I hope we can work on it with that realization as a 
baseline.
    I would also add that fossil fuel emissions have put us on 
the front edge of what I call the great climate insurance 
collapse, which is very real and very immediate in a great many 
States, where flooding and wildfire risks are destroying 
homeowners insurance markets. That cascades from homeowners 
insurance markets into mortgage markets, from mortgage markets 
into real estate markets, from real estate markets into the 
banking sector, and generally into recession.
    Indeed, the former chief economist for Freddie Mac has 
predicted a 2008-style recession from this meltdown, based only 
on coastal property value crash, without even considering the 
wildfire risks that the west is now experiencing.
    These warnings do not come from the environmental 
community. They come from the Fed, the Fed Chair, they come 
from Freddie Mac, their former chief economist. They come from 
The Economist magazine. They come from the International 
Financial Stability Board. They come from the board member of 
the biggest insurance company in the world, Allianz, and the 
CEO of the American insurance giant, AON. They come from the 
former risk chief of Goldman Sachs, they come from the former 
head of the Bank of England. They come from the Mortgage 
Bankers Association. They come in the form of an op-ed I wrote 
with Senator Sheehy.
    We have to be real about this. While I look forward to 
working with my distinguished colleagues on solving this 
problem, to overlook all of that in the context of a hearing on 
the Clean Air Act is just more than I can bear.
    Mr. Walke, you are from the NRDC. You published a 
comprehensive report in 2021, finding that the health-related 
costs of fossil fuel pollution are $820 billion a year out from 
Americans. Can you explain a little bit the conclusion that led 
to the $820 billion freeload for the fossil fuel industry and 
health harm to the American people?
    Mr. Walke. Yes, Senator, thank you. We looked at the direct 
health impacts that would flow from fossil fuel air pollution. 
That figure encompasses health hazards from cardiovascular 
disease, heart attacks, strokes, and overwhelmingly from about 
107,000 premature deaths that are caused annually by fossil 
fuel pollution. That is using government figures for assigning 
costs to that. Before the EPA eliminated them, that is the 
figure that we came up with.
    Senator Whitehouse. I often cite the International Monetary 
Fund analysis of the effective subsidy for fossil fuel, not 
immediate cash subsidies through the tax code, but the subsidy 
being allowed to pollute for free, which even very conservative 
economists understand is bad economics. It violates the basic 
laws of the market economy. Their latest figure put it at $770 
billion per year. That seems to track pretty well with your 
$820 billion number, does not it?
    Mr. Walke. It doe, but I would add that there are different 
ways of subsidizing fossil fuels. This administration has just 
rolled back motor vehicle standards that will cause Americans 
to spend over $1 trillion in added gasoline costs. I just 
noticed in the newspaper this morning that gasoline prices had 
risen at the pump 17 percent just since the war was started in 
Iran.
    These costs are additive. That does not even include the 
800 and something billion figure that we found in direct health 
costs.
    Senator Whitehouse. One side's cost is the other side's 
revenue, and that is what they are interested in.
    Thank you very much, Chairman.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Senator Lummis?
    Senator Lummis. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    This question is for Mr. Fornstrom and Mr. Anderson. You 
represent States that have cold weather but also have 
significant transportation industries. Have you or an employee 
or in the case of you, Mr. Fornstrom, a Farm Bureau member, 
ever been stranded in the cold due to an improperly functioning 
DEF system?
    Mr. Fornstrom. Thank you for that question. I personally 
have never been stranded. I do my best to not buy anything that 
has DEF in it. I do have to have some equipment that does have 
DEF. The big worry with that is, as you know, in Wyoming, with 
our ranching, as rural as it is, is that when these ranchers go 
out with this equipment and they are, in Wyoming we are famous 
for ground blizzards, where you can not see from me to you.
    They feed their cattle a mile away from their house. If 
that equipment goes down because of a DEF problem, somebody is 
going to die. They are going to be frozen before they can make 
it back to the house. Those are real worries we have in 
Wyoming. Throughout the whole west.
    Senator Lummis. Mr. Anderson?
    Mr. Anderson. Thank you, Senator.
    I am not an equipment operator, but I have been impacted. 
When we have had road closures, I have been impacted by road 
closures. A lot of times, in my role as commissioner, we are 
always looking at our performance as a department, and how 
quickly we can open those roads.
    We have had situations where this is taking us longer than 
it normally does. When you dig in, it is because there has been 
equipment that has been downed by these DEF issues.
    It is a real impact across the board from that perspective. 
I have been in the shops with the mechanics, and they have 
shown me the problems. This is real. It is a real impact, and 
it is having significant impacts to us.
    Senator Lummis. Mr. Anderson, is there ever a case where 
there is plenty of DEF in the engine but the DEF system still 
malfunctions?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, Senator. There is, from my discussions 
with our mechanics, there is a multitude of factors and ways 
that these systems malfunction. With the engine derates, yes, 
that is typical. When our folks will be out in extreme 
temperatures, trying to keep our roads open, and they can get 
stuck out 40, 50 miles from the nearest maintenance camp. Now 
they have a piece of equipment that can go five miles an hour. 
That causes a lot of disruption to our services.
    Also, our equipment, you know, when we are out working in 
this cold, cold temperatures, things freeze. Equipment is not 
on all the time. SO if one of these systems and this fluid 
freezes, it crystallizes. That causes other problems within the 
system, to injectors within the tanks, just a multitude of 
factors that start causing reasons for malfunction.
    It is not just limited to these derates. There are 
challenges where we just can not get the equipment started 
again.
    Senator Lummis. Mr. Fornstrom, you mentioned that the 
mileage per gallon goes down when there is a DEF system 
installed. Does that mean that you are consuming more and 
polluting more because you are getting fewer miles per gallon?
    Mr. Fornstrom. Yes. I guess the background on that is, I 
have run trucks since the early 1990's. When we started with 
the trucks, equipment, horsepower size, all in the same 
weights, we could run between six, six and a half miles per 
gallon of diesel on those trucks. That was a pretty good mile 
per gallon for us.
    As of late, if you talk to anybody who runs anything with 
that in it, they are hoping to get four miles per gallon. You 
are 50 percent higher at least, in the efficiency. I think the 
petroleum companies probably love that. I am not sure, as a 
consumer of that diesel fuel, at the prices they are now 
compared to what they were in the 1990's, it is putting a real 
pinch point on agriculture.
    Senator Lummis. In one sense, the government, trying to 
avoid NOx emissions, is creating more emissions because they 
are driving down the mileage you can get on a gallon of diesel.
    Mr. Fornstrom. Emissions per gallon of diesel, for sure. 
For sure.
    Senator Lummis. Well, my time is expired, Madam Chairman. 
The EPA under Obama knew, they knew, that DEF systems didn't 
work well and posed a risk to public safety. They mandated them 
anyway.
    What we need to do is in some ways what Mr. Whitehouse 
described. We do need to remediate NOx emissions. We need to 
reduce them. There are ways to reduce them and still keep 
diesel engines running. That is what this bill is about.
    Thanks, Mr. Sullivan. I yield back.
    Senator Capito. Mr. Padilla?
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
    Listening intently to my colleagues on both sides of the 
aisle, I try to keep an open mind here. Let me share the lens 
with which I am approaching this conversation. Recognizing that 
the EPA recently rescinded Federal vehicle greenhouse gas 
emission standards, and last year Congress, this Senate, voted 
to rescind California's Clean Air Act waiver authority.
    Together, those actions have significantly narrowed 
California's ability to protect our own communities, our own 
constituents, from vehicle emissions.
    Now, one argument for this bill is that regions with unique 
operating conditions deserve flexibility from the Federal 
Government in how they address emissions and emission 
requirements. That sounds common sense.
    That argument cuts both ways. If we are being asked to 
consider cold weather States, whether or not they deserve 
flexibility to weaken emission requirements based on their 
unique conditions, Senator Sullivan, that is sort of what I am 
hearing as the basis for this proposal, then I am sure through 
the same logic California also deserves flexibility to meet its 
unique standards and air quality challenges.
    My first question is for Mr. Walke. In your view, what are 
the public health consequences for States like California that 
have now lost both the Federal floor and their own authority to 
go even further?
    Mr. Walke. Thank you, Senator. It is well known that 
Southern California, especially, but really the whole State 
faces some of the most challenging smog problems in the United 
States, and those come overwhelmingly from motor vehicles that 
the Clean Air Act reserves to EPA, or California, with its 
special authority.
    This administration has undermined that, as you noted. Has 
this body.
    The emissions increases in NOx resulting from the rollback 
of the motor vehicle standards by this EPA rollback, so, power 
plant standards, the pollution spike from power plants, 
frankly, overwhelms the NOx increases that might occur from the 
type of engines that we are talking about today. I am kind of 
struggling with how to balance all that.
    California is facing some of the worst of it from the 
rollbacks, especially the motor vehicles and the California 
waiver kind of weakening.
    Senator Padilla. I think it is a combination of just the 
size of the population, size of the economy, aging 
infrastructure, growing infrastructure, along with topography 
and weather patterns, that has resulted in--correct me if I am 
wrong, but the last I checked, the plurality of Americans 
living in non-attainment areas are the central, Southern 
California Air Quality Management District and the Central 
Valley.
    Mr. Walke. That is correct.
    Senator Padilla. Just those two parts of California 
combined, with the plurality of Americans living in non-
attainment areas.
    Mr. Walke. That is correct.
    Senator Padilla. We talk about what the State has been 
historically, what they would like to do if the Federal 
Government allowed them to go further. Passenger vehicles is 
one thing, stationary sources, power plants is another. It is 
eras of Federal jurisdiction that are the biggest, last nuts to 
crack. Think locomotives. Technology is leading us quickly if 
we let those who innovate do so more aggressively but 
realistically, balancing our economic growth. That is just one 
example.
    I would also remind ourselves, colleagues, that over the 
past year we have seen the EPA grant these exemptions from 
emissions and toxic pollution standards to a significant number 
of industrial facilities or sectors of the economy, often 
through mechanisms that bypass the normal notice and comment 
process. The bill before us today would add a statutory 
exemption on top of that administrative process.
    Mr. Walke, do you have any concerns that normalizing broad 
exemptions, even ones that seem targeted and reasonable on 
their face, could ultimately undermine the consistency and 
enforceability of the rules that everyone is supposed to be 
operating under, and thereby distorting markets?
    Mr. Walke. I do, Senator. I think there are better 
solutions than exemptions, statutory exemptions. I do want to 
emphasize that this exemption is not limited to Alaska. It is 
available to the entire United States. In fact, it is not even 
limited to cold temperature because of the way that the bill is 
worded, ambient air temperature, without regard to cold 
weather. That may be inadvertent, but that is what the bill 
says.
    I think that there are solutions available through 
regulatory channels with greater technical expertise than I 
have, or that this body has. I encourage those to proceed. 
Thank you.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam 
Chairman.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Sullivan?
    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank 
Mr. Anderson in particular for his really excellent testimony.
    I want to help you help me and my colleagues set the stage 
a little bit here. You are from Fairbanks. How cold was it this 
winter? In December, just December, it was really, really, 
really cold, wasn't it?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, Senator. We had temperatures below 30 
below for several weeks. It was actually a, I believe it was a 
50-year record for cold temperatures in Fairbanks.
    Senator Sullivan. Yes. In Fairbanks, it gets cold, really 
cold. I used to live in Fairbanks. My wife is from Fairbanks.
    That is consistent, too. I think the month of December had 
25 below for most of the entire month, right?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, that is correct. Along with the 
darkness.
    Senator Sullivan. Yes. The Haul Road, what we call the Haul 
Road, or the Dalton Highway, explain that a little bit. It is 
about 500 miles from Fairbanks to Prudhoe Bay, Deadhorse, 
correct?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, that is correct. Five hundred miles, it 
is a combination of some pavement but mostly gravel.
    Senator Sullivan. Mostly gravel, right. It is not even 
paved.
    Mr. Anderson. In the wintertime we actually ice it, so we 
put ice on top to keep it smoother.
    Senator Sullivan. Those are the ice road truckers I was 
talking about?
    Mr. Anderson. Those are the ice road truckers.
    Senator Sullivan. Tough duty.
    Mr. Anderson. Yes.
    Senator Sulivan. Dangerous duty.
    Mr. Anderson. Absolutely.
    Senator Sullivan. Without the DEF system.
    Mr. Anderson. Absolutely.
    Senator Sullivan. Then let's think, if you are north of the 
Yukon River, my wife and I, we go up to the Yukon every summer, 
so we drive the Haul Road ourselves, but if you are north of 
the Yukon River, how many gas stations are there between north 
of the Yukon River and Deadhorse? In the winter.
    Mr. Anderson. There is one gas station at a place called 
Coldfoot.
    Senator Sullivan. That is about, Yukon River to Deadhorse 
is about 350 miles, is that what that is?
    Mr. Anderson. That is about correct.
    Senator Sullivan. There is one gas station.
    Mr. Anderson. Absolutely.
    Senator Sullivan. This is kind of the sense of the 
challenge. In the fact that it is the economic lifeline of 
Alaska, can you unpack that a little bit more again for the 
witnesses here? Why? What is up in Deadhorse?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, the Prudhoe Bay oil fields, that is, 
back in the 1960's, with the big oil finds in Alaska, the 
Trans-Alaska Pipeline, takes the oil, I think we are doing 
about 400,000 barrels per day now.
    Senator Sullivan. Yes, we are turning that around now.
    Mr. Anderson. Where it is going up fast. That has been 
super positive.
    It really is, if you are in a lot of Alaska and the 
communities, I mean, the majority, that is what drives their 
economy, that is the revenue that drives our State government 
across the board. Even our permanent fund dividend, if you have 
heard of that, that has been generated from oil revenues based 
on the----
    Senator Sullivan. The Country, especially now, needs that 
as well, right? We are producing oil in Alaska that Americans 
need.
    Mr. Anderson. Absolutely.
    Senator Sullivan. Big C. A lot of it goes to California, 
that is another whole topic.
    Let me ask this question. I thought your statistics in your 
opening statement were kind of shocking to me. I mean, I have 
been focused on this issue for a long time. You said, and I 
quote now, ``The internal maintenance data and field experience 
indicate that between 70 and 80 percent of the diesel engine 
maintenance issues encountered in the past 2 years as part of 
the Department of Transportation in Alaska are related to the 
DEF system.''
    Mr. Anderson. That is correct.
    Senator Sullivan. How many pieces of equipment are we 
talking about? I mean, you have thousands of diesel equipment, 
do not you, in terms of trucks?
    Mr. Anderson. Yes. The DOT in Alaska runs the State 
equipment fleet for the entire State of Alaska. It is thousands 
of pieces of equipment across the State.
    Senator Sullivan. The 70 to 80 percent of your diesel 
challenges with that equipment relates to this problem?
    Mr. Anderson. That is correct.
    Senator Sullivan. The 10 percent of the department at any 
point has unavailable equipment because of that?
    Mr. Anderson. That is correct.
    Senator Sullivan. That is giant cost, just to the 
department, correct?
    Mr. Anderson. Absolutely.
    Senator Sullivan. Let me ask you, Mr. Fornstrom, you talked 
about costs too, to farmers. I am a big fan of America's 
farmers. You mentioned this idea that hey, a lot of times when 
commodity prices or farm prices are not as high as they need, 
your margins can be really, really low, right? To just be a 
farmer who can make ends meet.
    What about, you mentioned briefly the cost of this for 
farmers. Is that something else that, it is not just huge cost 
to the Alaska Department of Transportation, but to farmers in 
Wyoming? Isn't this kind of impacting your ability to make a 
livelihood?
    Mr. Fornstrom. Yes, you know, you mentioned prices being 
low. Low would be great. The negative ones are the ones that 
hurt.
    Senator Sullivan. Yes.
    Mr. Fornstrom. DEF, it adds to our cost of production. 
Everybody here knows that agriculture is a price taker. We can 
not add money to what we are charging for our wheat. You will 
take it and you will pay for it or you will not do it anymore. 
DEF is nothing more than just an add-on for expense.
    Senator Sullivan. Thank you.
    Madam Chair, we need to work on this. To my colleague, 
Senator Whitehouse, none of us are saying we should not do 
anything about NOx or SOx. We need to have regulations that 
actually are not one-size-fits-all that really penalize States 
like mine in a huge way. A reg written by lawyers in D.C. that 
do not have a clue about any of this stuff, not a clue.
    That is not right. That is not the way the Federal 
Government is supposed to work, and we are going to fix it. 
Thank you.
    Senator Capito. I look forward to working with you to do 
that.
    Senator Ricketts?
    Senator Ricketts. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. 
Thank you to our witnesses for coming to talk about this 
important issue.
    Diesel engines are an important part for many vehicles, 
including in the agricultural industry. In States like 
Nebraska, where we experience cold, not as cold as Alaska, and 
highly variable weather, these systems face additional 
operational challenges.
    Nebraska agriculture producers that emissions related 
issues, particularly with DEF, the DEF systems, account for a 
majority of their machinery repairs, sort of what my colleague 
from Alaska was just saying.
    Major grievance is that when a DEF sensor fails or the 
system malfunctions, it often triggers limp mode, where a 
tractor or combine loses power and speed, causing critical 
delays during planting or harvesting.
    During these seasons, especially, farm operations rely on 
narrow windows to be able to do the planting or harvesting. If 
equipment malfunctions and a tractor derates during those 
windows, farmers can miss critical planting or harvesting 
timelines, which can negatively affect the entire season's crop 
yield.
    On top of failing engines, these failures can cost 
producers thousands of dollars in repairs and lost 
productivity.
    This is also a major safety hazard, especially in bitter 
cold weather. Allowing manufacturers to suspend engine derate 
or shut down functions that operate in cold provides targeted 
regulatory relief for farmers, truckers, and Nebraskans.
    I applaud the Trump administration's EPA, who has 
recognized this challenge by publishing guidance that allows 
greater flexibility and longer warning periods before derate 
occurs.
    Mr. Fornstrom, how does the EPA guidance and this 
legislation in tandem provide long-term regulatory relief 
needed for our agriculture and trucking industries?
    Mr. Fornstrom. Thank you for the question. We all know out 
in the rural parts of America that these regulations, the move 
around so much. This codification by the legislative body will 
be, it gives us a direction to head, at least. It takes away 
one of those questions that we will have, is when will it 
change and where will it go next.
    Senator Ricketts. Why is that important for farmers?
    Mr. Fornstrom. We think on terms of years, not next week. I 
mean, I plant a crop that I will harvest for the next 5 years. 
In those plannings, we need to know where things are going to 
be. It is just the planning process. We need to know.
    Senator Ricketts. Certainty is a really important thing?
    Mr. Fornstrom. It is super important.
    Senator Ricketts. In the trucking industry, these system 
failures have also caused serious safety risks. The Clean Air 
Act regulations were not intended to jeopardize human safety or 
mobility, as my colleague from Alaska was talking about. 
Ultimately, this legislation is about protecting lives while 
maintaining practical and workable standards.
    Mr. Anderson and Mr. Fornstrom, can you speak to the safety 
and operational benefits of this legislation and how it will 
help address the challenges drivers and operators are currently 
facing?
    Mr. Fornstrom. I live on a stretch of highway called 
Interstate 80, goes right through the middle of your State.
    Senator Ricketts. Familiar with that.
    Mr. Fornstrom. In fact, I live on the other end of, I live 
right on the border. We travel Cheyenne to Kimball, Nebraska 
regularly.
    On any given day, it does not matter if it is cold outside 
or hot outside, there will be one to a half a dozen trucks in 
about a 70-mile stretch and they are all parked alongside the 
road. I have asked the local mechanics, what is going on with 
all these trucks?
    They say, most of the time, it is an emission issue. 
Derates will shut them down, put them on the side of the 
interstate. If you have ever stopped on the interstate, on I-
80, and tried to get off the road far enough, you can not get 
far enough off the road.
    Senator Ricketts. Yes, it is dangerous.
    Mr. Fornstrom. It is dangerous.
    Senator Ricketts. You said that happens even in warm 
weather?
    Mr. Fornstrom. Oh, every day. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. What are some of the other causes, then, 
of the emissions failures? We talked about the cold.
    Mr. Fornstrom. Well, that is not only a problem in the 
cold. It is a problem in the heat, also. It degrades in the 
heat.
    Senator Ricketts. Talk to me a little bit about that. When 
you add DEF, it actually can degrade in the heat? If you get 
warm temperatures--
    Mr. Fornstrom. Heat and sunlight.
    Senator Ricketts. Will that increase, then, is that an 
issue where the NOx emissions are increasing and that is what 
causes the shutdown? Or is it a systems problem with the 
emissions system somehow malfunctioning?
    Mr. Fornstrom. You know, I do not know exactly how that 
system works. I would assume, I mean, you hear all sorts of 
situations, whether it is a sensor, whether it is a broken 
tank, whether it is--I mean, these systems are, they are 
plastic tanks. Where we are from, the roads are not always 
smooth.
    Senator Ricketts. Right.
    Mr. Fornstrom. In the winter time, I guess everybody 
forgets that we shut these things off every so often. When you 
shut them off, that is when it freezes. Then it breaks the 
tank.
    Senator Ricketts. It expands the tank?
    Mr. Fornstrom. It is like 50 percent water. It expands the 
tank, breaks it, and now you are sitting with a piece of 
equipment with a broken tank, with no way for it to get the 
DEF.
    Senator Ricketts. Madam Chair, do you mind if I let Mr. 
Anderson just respond quickly?
    Senator Capito. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. Mr. Anderson, if you could just respond 
quickly to that as well.
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, on the life safety issue, just imagine 
you are an equipment operator and it is 40 below, you are out 
trying to keep a road open so other people do not get stuck in 
those same conditions, and your equipment derates or breaks 
down. You are there, help is maybe hours away. We have good 
communication structures, but it still takes time.
    Now you are in a situation, an uncertain situation with 
snow conditions, changing weather conditions, changing rapidly. 
You are basically helpless.
    That, for us, that is a real concern in our department.
    Senator Ricketts. Yes. I think that is just kind of the 
point. Legislative reform that actually increases public safety 
is common sense, and we look forward to working with the 
committee on this. Thank you.
    Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Ricketts.
    Senator Sullivan has asked to ask a few more questions. 
Since he is the sponsor of the bill, go forward.
    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Walke, I wanted to look at a little bit of your 
testimony. You had mentioned in your written testimony, by the 
way, I read most of it. It was almost 30 pages. Very 
impressive.
    You said that Administrator Zeldin in February took further 
action to ``address perceived concerns.'' After listening to 
this testimony, do you think these are perceived concerns or 
real concerns? Perceived, in my view, is kind of dismissive, 
right? I got, for the record, a whole bunch of Alaskans who are 
not perceived, these are real concerns. The commissioner just, 
I think, very, very strongly laid out real concerns.
    When you say perceived, it is kind of dismissive of what we 
are talking about here. Is that your testimony? Do you think 
these are perceived concerns? Wouldn't you call them real 
concerns?
    Mr. Walke. Senator Sullivan, these are absolutely real 
concerns. In my testimony, if I used that word, and I trust 
that I did, I thought it was in a quote. If it is not in a 
quote, then I withdraw the word perceived.
    Senator Sullivan. Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you.
    Look, I have a lot of respect for the NRDC, and you guys 
have a lot of really smart attorneys. You had also mentioned 
that the bill is unnecessary and harmful to the health of 
Alaskans. That is another quote. I mean, I know this DEF thing 
is really harmful to the safety of Alaskans. Again, we need to 
address the NOx and SOx issues.
    We have to do it smartly, so you do not take one State that 
has a lot of cold weather and presents really, really dangerous 
situations, let alone costs, which in our State are probably in 
the tens of millions that relate to this regulation.
    Is that still your testimony? Or is your main testimony, 
hey, we shouldn't try to fix this through a law, we should try 
to fix it through the regulatory process?
    Mr. Walke. Testimony is that the regulatory process can 
balance the very real NOx health concerns, the very real safety 
and access concerns in Alaska. We are hearing in this hearing 
that this is not just about Alaska. It is now about all NOx 
control systems, apparently, including in warm temperatures. 
The bill is written to apply it to the entire United States.
    I just do not think that is a balanced--
    Senator Sullivan. Well, it has a primary focus, the bill 
does, and this hearing does, primary focus on cold weather 
operations where the systems really freeze up.
    Let me turn to Commissioner Anderson again. We are talking 
about the economy, we are talking about danger, we are talking 
about how you are having to clear roads. One of the testimony, 
I want to make sure it is in the record, Madam Chair.
    Senator Capito. Without objection.
    Senator Sullivan. The Interior Alaska Fire Chiefs 
Association. They submitted testimony. I thought this was very 
powerful, because they are from the interior part of the State, 
Fairbanks and other. The fire chiefs are saying, hey, we have 
to fix this because our fire trucks do not work, when we are 
going out to like, address a burning building and people's 
lives are at stake, they are worried about the operational 
reliability of their fire trucks.
    Can you, Commissioner, I know this is not exactly the DOT 
area, but it is safety, and you are talking about safety. Our 
fire chiefs are also saying this is a big problem.
    Mr. Anderson. Yes, Senator, and that wasn't the only fire 
chief that commented. We also got others. Even the Anchorage 
fire department, which, Anchorage is our largest city in 
Alaska, put in testimonials about this problem as a concern. It 
is a bigger issue, absolutely.
    Senator Sullivan. Yes. Just again for our witnesses, 
Anchorage does not get as cold as Fairbanks, usually. This 
winter, Anchorage has been 10, 15, 20, almost 20 below zero for 
a decent part of the winter. Anchorage has gotten really cold 
this winter, too. I am glad you are saying that that is the 
other fire chiefs.
    Madam Chair, I really appreciate you holding this hearing. 
I want to commend the witnesses, all the witnesses. I want to 
thank you and Senator Lummis and Senator Ricketts. I want to 
work with you and Senator Whitehouse on what I think this 
hearing clearly demonstrates: there is a problem. A big 
problem. This is classic one-size-fits-all.
    I am just glad, knock on wood, that nobody in my State has 
been killed yet because of this. If you are stranded on the 
Dalton Highway, it is 50 below zero and you have no cell 
service, that is very high danger. We need to fix it.
    Senator Capito. Thank you. I could not agree more.
    With no further questions, I would like to thank the 
witnesses and all my colleagues for your participation in 
today's hearing. Thank you.
    Senators who wish to submit written questions for the 
record have until 5 p.m. on Wednesday, March 25th, to do so. 
The witnesses' responses to those questions are due back to the 
committee no later than 5 p.m. on Wednesday, April 8th, and 
will be submitted for the record.
    With that, this hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:25 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    
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