[Senate Hearing 119-345]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 119-345
OVERSIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES
ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 17, 2025
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-288 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Chairman
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island, Ranking Member
KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina MARK KELLY, Arizona
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska ALEX PADILLA, California
PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas ANGELA D. ALSOBROOKS, Maryland
JON HUSTED, Ohio
Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
Dan Dudis, Democratic Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
SEPTEMBER 17, 2025
OPENING STATEMENTS
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Whitehouse, Hon. Sheldon, U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode
Island......................................................... 2
WITNESSES
Telle, Hon. Adam, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil
Works, Department of the Army, Office of the Assistant
Secretary for Civil Works...................................... 4
Prepared statement........................................... 7
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Cramer........................................... 12
Senator Graham........................................... 13
Senator Sullivan......................................... 13
Senator Wicker........................................... 15
Senator Whitehouse....................................... 16
Senator Merkley.......................................... 20
Senator Kelly............................................ 21
Senator Padilla.......................................... 24
Senator Schiff........................................... 27
Graham, Lieutenant General William H., Jr., 56th Chief of
Engineers and Commanding General, Department of the Army, U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers........................................ 31
Prepared statement........................................... 33
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Cramer........................................... 36
Senator Ricketts......................................... 36
Senator Whitehouse....................................... 37
Senator Kelly............................................ 40
Senator Padilla.......................................... 43
OVERSIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES
ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
----------
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2025
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:16 a.m. in
room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Shelley Moore
Capito (chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Capito, Whitehouse, Cramer, Sullivan,
Ricketts, Boozman, Merkley, Padilla.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Capito. All right, here we go. I am calling this
hearing to order, and welcome our witnesses. Thank you so much.
I apologize for the delay.
I also want to congratulate Adam Telle on his recent
confirmation. Hanging by a thread, there, Adam, until the very
end, but you made it across the finish line in our final vote
in August.
Today we will conduct oversight of the U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers Civil Works program and examine the agency's
implementation of prior Water Resources Development Acts. Since
2014, this committee has kept to a biannual schedule of passing
this bipartisan legislation and we look forward to keeping on
track with that record.
WRDA authorizes water resource studies and projects and
sets national priorities for our civil works program. The Corps
does critical work across the Nation through its navigation,
flood risk management and ecosystem restoration missions. This
work protects the lives and livelihoods of millions of
Americans, facilitates commerce throughout our Country and
internationally.
The timely implementation of these laws, consistent with
congressional intent, is essential. The Corps is actively
working on a number of studies and projects that I am going to
mention, because they are critically important to my State of
West Virginia.
The Lower Mud River Flood Risk Management project in
Milton, West Virginia, has been a priority of mine. In WRDA
2022, I was able to increase the Federal share of that project
from 65 percent to 90 percent. This change brought in the
support we needed without creating financial strain on our
State.
In 2023, I also secured an additional $190 million for this
project, bringing the total to $287 million in Federal funding,
delivering on the Federal side of the funding equation to make
this project happen. Last month, West Virginia signed an
amendment to the project partnership agreement to formalize the
new cost sharing agreement which allows the project to resume.
Secretary Telle, thank you for being there, I know that was
your first visit in your new official position, and I thank you
for joining us in Milton for that ceremony.
The State of West Virginia recently committed to matching
the Federal funds that I have secured for the Upper Guyandotte
and Kanawha River Basin Flood Risk Management studies. Just
over 9 years ago, in June 2016, West Virginia experienced
flooding at historic rates, leading to tragic deaths and
devastation.
The Kanawha River Basin study is a direct response to this
flooding. I championed a provision in WRDA 2024 that increases
the Federal cost share for future projects identified by this
study.
WRDA 2024 also increased the ability of the Corps to carry
out smaller projects for debris and obstruction removal, which
is critical to reducing the severity of flooding in many areas
of I am sure everybody's State, but particularly ours.
The fifth and final phase of the Bluestone Dam Safety
Assurance Mega-Project, in the city of Hinton, continues to
make significant progress. In September 2024, Hurricane Helene
led to high water levels in rivers and streams across the east
coast, well beyond the areas hit directly by the storm. The New
River was among those affected and resulted in historic water
levels against the Bluestone Dam.
The dam was able to withstand the rising waters and
prevented an estimated $577 million in damages. Once completed,
the project will protect more than 150,000 people and $20
billion worth of infrastructure.
Unfortunately, there is more to be done. This year alone,
several parts of West Virginia experienced devastating
flooding. In February, flooding in McDowell County resulted in
the loss of lives and necessitated major rescue and recovery
efforts. The damage wiped out the only route to the Welch
Community Hospital, and caused major infrastructure issues in
Wyoming and Mingo counties.
Ohio and Marion counties also experienced significant
damage and loss of lives following flash flooding on the
Father's Day weekend. My congressional colleagues and I
supported Governor Morrisey's requests for Presidential
disaster declarations, and I am grateful to President Trump for
his approval of these requests.
I will continue to work with the Corps and local government
officials to determine if additional authorities are needed to
help mitigate the impacts from future flood events.
Thank you again to the witnesses for being here. I now turn
to my Ranking Member, Ranking Member Whitehouse, for his
opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman, for this hearing
today. Thank you, Secretary Telle and Lieutenant General
Graham, for appearing.
As you know, one of my most vexing problems, one the Corps
has refused to remedy, is chronic underfunding of coastal storm
risk management projects. For my Ocean State, that is a bad
situation.
While flood risk is on the rise nationwide, coastal areas
face the most severe increases due to rising sea levels and
more frequent extreme rainfall events. In First Street's
National Flood Risk Assessment, coastal cities outrank inland
cities by all measures of substantial flood risk.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has determined
that the share of properties exposed to flood risk in coastal
communities is more than twice that of inland communities, and
coastal communities are projected to see even sharper increases
in flood risk over the next two decades.
Greater flood and storm risks are, in turn, contributing to
a property insurance crisis that threatens to trash our entire
economy. When risk makes property uninsurable, the property
also becomes unmortgageable. Without mortgages, property
markets crash. As we all saw in 2008, when property markets
crash, so does the economy.
Despite this dire situation, coastal storm risk management
projects year after year receive between 20 and 100 times less
funding than inland flood risk management projects. That simply
is not good enough. The Corps needs to tackle problems like
this one head-on and embrace reform.
Assistant Secretary Telle, I supported your nomination and
confirmation because I know you understand and appreciate the
critical role that congressional oversight plays in ensuring
that Federal agencies deliver for people. I value your
commitment to maintaining an open line of communication with
Senator Capito and me, and particularly appreciate your
willingness to engage with committee staff on a regular basis
to keep the Corps accountable.
In prior testimony before this Committee, you spoke of your
formative experience helping to secure funding and resources
for the State of Mississippi's recovery from the devastating
effects of Hurricane Katrina. You know from experience managing
the FEMA portfolio for the Senate Homeland Security and
Governmental Affairs Committee that disasters do not
differentiate between red and blue States.
Under your leadership, I expect to remove the political
bias so blatant in the Corps' Fiscal Year 2025 Construction
Work Plan, which shifted over $250 million in construction
funding from blue states to red States, completely eliminating
funding for four critical California flood risk management
projects to fund navigation projects in Texas that did not even
make the cut in the Corps' Fiscal Year 2025 budget.
Assistant Secretary Telle, I expect you to put an end to
it. Egregious partisanship does not serve the Army Corps, and
it does not serve the American people.
I also expect to see progress on project delivery. Cost
escalations and delays are pervasive, recurring issues in the
Corps' civil works construction program. The Trump
administration's attacks on the Federal work force have only
made addressing these problems worse.
In just a few months, DOGE's deferred resignation program
and voluntary early retirement have hollowed out Corps offices,
so that across the agency, work force reductions undermine
mission execution. Some Corps district offices have lost as
much as 20 percent of their staff, and all have likely lost
expert personnel. The prolonged Trump hiring freeze is
exacerbating the staffing shortage.
As a result of this DOGE-driven chaos, Corps offices are
either deferring work, contracting it out at a higher cost, or
paying employees overtime to complete it, all while continuing
to pay salaries to employees who, under the DRP, no longer
report for duty.
This is not just a matter of work force morale; the DRP has
actually jeopardized mission-critical operations and increased
project costs.
Assistant Secretary Telle, General Graham, you have your
work cut out for you. I look forward to working with you and
hope that you will acknowledge the challenges, roll up your
sleeves, and work cooperatively with this Committee to address
them.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Our first witness is the 14th Assistant Secretary of the
Army for Civil Works, Adam Telle. Secretary Telle, as I
mentioned in my opening statement, was recently confirmed to
serve in this role by the Senate in a bipartisan vote.
Prior to his confirmation, Mr. Telle spent two decades in
public service, with roles in the U.S. Senate, notably as my
clerk for the Homeland Security Subcommittee, and as a special
assistant to the President in the first Trump administration.
Welcome, Secretary Telle. Again, thank you for visiting
West Virginia. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF HON. ADAM TELLE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY
FOR CIVIL WORKS, DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY, OFFICE OF THE
ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR CIVIL WORKS
Mr. Telle. Thank you, Chairman Capito.
Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse, and
distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the
opportunity to be here today to discuss the Army Civil Works
program. I am honored to serve as the 14th Assistant Secretary
of the Army for Civil Works and as President Trump's, Secretary
Hegseth's, and Secretary Driscoll's top official responsible
for overseeing the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers' civil works
mission.
I was nominated by President Trump on March 24th of this
year, appeared at a hearing in May, and I was confirmed by the
Senate, as Chairman Capito pointed out, on August 2d. I began
work in this role immediately thereafter and have been on the
job for six and a half weeks. During this time, I have been
working alongside General Graham and his team to ensure that
the Army Civil Works program is positioned to deliver on
President Trump's vision for our Country and on its critical
mission, which this committee has had an important role in
defining.
As I said during the consideration of my nomination before
this committee, I am honored to help lead the Army Civil Works
mission. It touches small and large communities throughout the
Country, and very few government agencies' missions capture the
interests of American citizens, landowners, communities,
States, job creators, and the representatives here in
Washington quite like this one.
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers originated in 1775, before
the Declaration of Independence was even signed. The America we
know today developed, in large part, as a result of the work of
the Corps.
Congress has given the Corps two main missions in addition
to its original navigation mission: flood damage reduction and
ensuring the future availability of our aquatic resources.
Because the Civil Works program is important to the American
public and their elected representatives here in Washington,
during my first weeks, I have been working to establish greater
consistency and accountability across the four layers of this
enterprise, which consist of my office and the Corps
headquarters, divisions and districts.
I intend to spend my time in this job ensuring that the
Corps carries out its missions to benefit the American public
as effectively, as quickly, and as efficiently as possible. We
must optimize our program for quality, speed, and cost if we
want to do our part to protect lives and commerce as President
Trump is delivering on his vision to ensure that the United
States remains the greatest nation in the history of the world
during the 21st Century.
Our partners here on Capitol Hill, and particularly on this
Committee, have been pivotal in supporting this enterprise, and
I request your partnership as I work with General Graham to
ensure the Civil Works program evolves to become more efficient
and consistent to meet our modern demands. To deliver against
that workload, we must work in partnership with the Congress,
throughout the executive branch, and with our stakeholders to
drive efficiency, collaboration, and results in an environment
that is necessarily resource-constrained.
In addition to driving more efficiency into the Civil Works
program, we must continue to lift the Federal regulatory burden
on the public. This Administration is committed to ending the
last five decades of confusing and ever-changing definitions of
the term ``Waters of the United States'' under the Clean Water
Act of 1972.
Together with Administrator Zeldin and President Trump's
Environmental Protection Agency, the Army has already issued
guidance that follows the Supreme Court's Sackett decision, and
we will move quickly to issue a permanent definition that
follows the post-Sackett law of the land, reduces red tape,
cuts overall permitting costs, lowers the cost of doing
business in communities across the Country and continues to
protect America's waters.
In July, my office made much-needed changes to our National
Environmental Policy Act implementing procedures that will
reform, modernize, and expedite the Corps' environmental
reviews, eliminate unnecessary delays, and help ensure the
growth of highly cost effective, reliable infrastructure
projects across the Nation.
We also recognize the opportunities provided through WRDA
2024 and previous WRDAs, which this committee has had such an
important role in shaping. These efforts were intended to
address navigation, reservoir management, the beneficial use of
dredged material and many other issues.
I look forward to gaining insight today about your views
and interests, so that together, we can serve America's vital
infrastructure needs.
Thank you, Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse and
the members of this Committee. I look forward to answering any
questions you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Telle follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Capito. Thank you, Secretary Telle. Appreciate that
opening statement.
Next we will hear from Lieutenant General William H.
Graham, Jr., the 56th Chief of Engineers and Commanding General
of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. General Graham assumed
these duties last September after serving as the Corps' Deputy
Commanding General for Civil and Emergency Operations. As
Commanding General, he is responsible for over 30,000 civilian
employees and 800 military personnel in more than 110
countries.
General Graham, really, welcome, thank you for serving,
thank you for being here. We look forward to your opening
statement.
STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL WILLIAM H. GRAHAM, JR., 56TH
CHIEF OF ENGINEERS AND COMMANDING GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF THE
ARMY, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
General Graham. Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse,
members of the Committee, I am very honored to testify before
you today in regard to oversight of the U.S. Army Corps of
Engineers Civil Works program and implementation of the Water
Resources Development Acts.
Through the Civil Works Program, the Army Corps works our
partners to study, build and operate water resource projects
focusing on our three main mission areas of commercial
navigation, flood and storm damage reduction, and aquatic
ecosystem restoration. Let me break those down.
The navigation program, which consists of our coastal and
Great Lakes channels, as well as the inland rivers and inter-
coastal waterways, underpins much of the national economy,
ensuring that commodities can move reliably and efficiently.
Our flood and storm reduction program maintains 746 dams, over
13,000 miles of Federal levees and 450 miles of shore
protection. Those systems provide, on average, a staggering
$200 billion per year of flood damages avoided.
To continuously maintain and improve these mission areas, I
certainly want to thank this committee, as was mentioned by the
Chairman, for supporting the Corps' Civil Works program with
your commitment, since 2014, to passing biannual Water
Resources Development Acts. Those acts have provided us with
the authorities necessary to address the changing needs of the
Nation's water resources infrastructure.
WRDA 2024 advanced the Corps' principal civil works
missions by authorizing new navigation, flood risk management,
coastal storm risk management, and aquatic ecosystem
restoration studies and projects all across the Country. These
studies and projects, when funded, will strengthen the supply
chain, better protect Americans from flooding and improve
degraded aquatic environments.
We deeply value the authorities you have entrusted to us.
Our pledge is to put them to work to deliver for the American
people. To that end, the Army Corps' objective every day is to
safely deliver quality projects on schedule within budget. We
measure this closely. Our scheduled delivery, our current on-
schedule rate when I checked this morning was 80.4 percent.
That is a low, low, low B. That is unacceptable.
This performance is influenced by factors we can control
and factors such as inflation that we do not control. Focusing
on those things that we can control, the Army Corps is
absolutely committed to procedural improvements, as Mr. Telle
spoke about, in the following three areas.
First, we have to get the engineering right. Focus here is
on the majority of the designs. We will not request authority
to build new projects unless the design is advanced enough that
we truly understand what we are proposing to build. That
threshold is usually around the 35 percent level. We have not
been doing that in the past.
There are some nuances on how we need to work to break down
large, complex projects and there are some nuances on cost-
sharing of studies vice cost-sharing of construction. We are
committed to working through those nuances with this committee.
Fundamentally, fundamentally, we need to better understand
what it is we are proposing to build before we ask you for
authority to build it.
The second thing, we have to get the project management
right. Here we are focusing on crafting logical, fully
resourced schedules and sticking to them, ensuring that we are
delivering these important projects with a great sense of
urgency, or as General Kelly puts it, hustle. If we stay on
schedule, then we are likely to stay on budget.
Third thing, we have to get the team right. We are striving
to bring together the right mix of talent with either onboard
manning or leveraging the incredible talents in the private
sector.
In closing, the path to successful delivery is clear: plan
projects thoroughly, fund them efficiently; and build them
rapidly with the right team of master builders. I look forward
to working with this committee to stay on that path.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look
forward to addressing your questions.
[The prepared statement of General Graham follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Capito. Thank you, General. Appreciate it.
I will kick us off to the first question for Secretary
Telle. Many provisions provided in prior WRDAs have gone
largely un-implemented. Section 1102 of WRDA 2024 requires that
your office develop and submit a plan to Congress on the
implementation of not just WRDA 2024, but prior WRDAs. This
plan must identify provisions that will require implementation
guidance or appropriations.
My first question is, when can we expect the list of WRDA
2024 provisions to be finalized?
Mr. Telle. Senator Capito, thank you for the question,
Chairman Capito.
My office and I know General Graham's under his leadership
with the Corps of Engineers takes very seriously the work of
this committee. I am committed to following the provisions in
WRDA, following the law. This committee has expressed
frustration over the speed of implementation of the laws that
you have enacted. As you point out, Chairman Capito, we owe you
a plan about how to get that done.
Each of these provisions is different. I believe the number
in the WRDA 2024 was approximately 180-plus provisions that we
were working to implement. Some of them are straightforward and
easy to implement. Some of them require implementation
guidance, as you point out. We have made determinations about
which are straightforward enough to implement and which require
implementation guidance.
I will just say that it would be helpful to work with you
to identify provisions that we can address without triggering a
large interagency process. If we can get the information to you
that you need to do your job, we will be happy to work with you
on doing that.
Senator Capito. I am asking if you have a date of when you
would put your plan forward with all this implementation. My
understanding is in 2024, we required you to submit to us a
plan, correct?
Mr. Telle. Yes, ma'am, that is correct.
Senator Capito. Do you have a date when you will have that
to us?
Mr. Telle. Senator, I do not have, I am not prepared to
give you a specific date today. All I can tell you is that----
Senator Capito. Is that because it is 180 provisions and
some that are more complicated than others? Or is it because--
why is that?
Mr. Telle. Senator, at the heart of it is that the Article
II branch of government is led by a chief executive. Many of
the provisions included in WRDA 2024 implicate agencies and
equities across the government.
In order to speak with one executive branch voice and give
you an answer that is correct, it necessarily involves
coordination with a myriad of agencies that complicates our
ability to get you the information you need so that we can
speak with one executive branch voice. Given that that
provision implicates a number of provisions that implicate
other agencies, it is complex for us to deliver to you
something that you can count on that is right.
I am committed to doing that.
Senator Capito. Well, that is important, I think,
obviously, for us to have it included in that WRDA 2024, that
plan is important to us.
General Graham, on the cost overrun issues, this is just a
consistently huge issue. We included several provisions
intended to provide the Corps with more time and resources to
better study possible solutions, the needs that might be in the
front end, and you sort of mentioned this. Our intent was for
the agency to then spend less time reworking project plans
after they have been authorized for construction.
However, we do not want these provisions to be interpreted
as directives from Congress to the Corps to go back to the days
when the agency spent years or decades studying a single
project.
What additional steps are being taken to address these
costs overruns? You addressed this a little bit in your opening
statement, but if you could get a deeper dive on that.
General Graham. Chairman Capito, thank you for that
question. Every time we do not deliver a project on schedule, I
get an email from the district engineer who explains what
happened. Then we have some very pointed discussions on what
was the root cause. The vast majority of the root causes are,
we did not know enough, as I spoke to in my opening statement,
about the project before we asked you to authorize it.
Probably a good way to visualize that is, a lot of those
authorizations were kind of at the conceptual 10 percent level.
They were not at the 35 percent. Basically, hey, we authorized
a house, not a four-bedroom house with a gas heater and three
bedrooms. That is what is tripping us up.
Digging down into the details a little bit more, the main
thing we missed is the field investigations. We did not get all
the survey data that we needed. We did not know, this is a
water resource business we are in, so those elevations, those
are kind of critical.
Same thing goes with, well, what property is associated
with those surveys? What does the soil look like that we are
going to buildupon? Kind of fundamental stuff. We did not know
nearly enough of it.
We are working with Secretary Telle to come up with a
commonsense reason or rationale for moving this forward.
Senator Capito. My time is running out here, but I would
ask, do you envision, then, going back on pending projects and
redoing this? Or is this from going forward, this is the way
you are going to do it on new projects?
General Graham. Certainly going forward. Projects that have
been authorized but we have not built those yet, the designs on
those are still sitting probably around the 10 percent level.
It would be helpful to be able to open those up, take a look at
those, and then, when Congress and the administration are
looking to fund those projects, I can give you a realistic cost
estimate.
Senator Capito. Okay. All right.
Senator Whitehouse?
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you very much, Chairman.
Gentlemen, thank you both for being here.
My coastal risk management concern is exemplified in the
President's Fiscal Year 2026 budget, which has $1.56 billion
for the Corps construction account with only $2 million
recommended for coastal storm risk management. I have talked
about a 20 to 1 ratio, I have talked about a 100 to 1 ratio,
this is an 80 to 1 ratio.
If you drill down on that one, on the $2 million, you find
that it actually will not even fund a single project. It is for
employee compensation claims to the Department of Labor.
That to me nets out to zero coastal storm risk management
projects in the Fiscal Year 2026 budget. What are we going to
do about this?
Mr. Telle. Senator Whitehouse, you and I have discussed
this previously on several occasions. It is something that I
have looked into in my six and a half weeks here on the job.
You and I should compare numbers. The numbers I have for Fiscal
Year 2026 President's budget are different than yours. I just
want to make sure we are speaking from the same facts.
What I will say about the overall ratio that you just--go
ahead.
Senator Whitehouse. Give me the name of the person on your
team my team should talk to to go through the numbers before we
have this conversation.
Mr. Telle. Absolutely. Your team works very closely with
Stacey Brown.
Senator Whitehouse. Stacey Brown it is. Go ahead.
Mr. Telle. Senator Whitehouse, one of the things that I
wanted to point out to you in looking through these numbers is
that the vast majority of construction and investigation
funding goes toward rehabilitating our dams. These are dams
that were built over the decades that protect American cities
from flood risk. They hold water back from flooding those
cities. A large portion of the President's budget request is
related to maintaining and rehabilitating those dams that are
of a critical safety level.
When you look at the new projects that are not dam-related,
and investigations and construction, the ratio that you are
discussing is more like 1.7 to 1, inland to coastal. I just
want to point out that when we are taking action to
rehabilitate infrastructure that is in desperate need of it
based on the safety implications, the President's budget has
prioritized those activities, and it does skew the numbers.
I want to make sure that you understand those are not new
dams, those are dams that are in our inventory and have been
for, in many cases, decades.
Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Were it not for this discrepancy,
there would probably be a lot of coastal projects that would
have been in your inventory for decades. Because they were
overlooked, they are not in your inventory for decades. It is a
continuing problem, and I look forward to working with you to
find a sensible solution.
Mr. Telle. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Whitehouse. You have indicated that you are pausing
work on feasibility studies for non-structural solutions. That
is Army Corps speak for what, non-structural?
Mr. Telle. Senator, thank you for asking the question. I
think in the case that you are discussing, non-structural
refers to an activity that does not, is not in keeping with the
Corps' long tradition of building infrastructure that protects
entire communities, but rather going home by home and in many
cases----
Senator Whitehouse. Rehabilitating homes would be an
example of that?
Mr. Telle. Correct. I would say at scale is a key part of
this conversation. Because we are not talking about a project
where we provide some piece of flood control infrastructure and
then for the few homes that are still in harm's way, we elevate
them. We are talking about going into entire regions and using
the United States Army Corps of Engineers to go and home by
home elevate.
I think, as I discussed with you yesterday, I think based
on the initial results of some of this work at scale, we need
to have a conversation about whether this is how you would like
for the United States Army Corps of Engineers to dedicate its
efforts.
Senator Whitehouse. Well, first of all, let me say that I
am eager for that discussion. I think there are other interests
that could be brought to bear having to do with the National
Flood Insurance Program. There is a lot of messy work that has
not been done about protecting our coasts and it is not clear
that you coming in and doing all of it is the best solution.
Neither is it the best solution to have you just walk away.
I have the example here of Louisiana's large-scale non-
structural project of $600 million to raise 3,462 homes across
a 4,700 square mile study area, which is a pretty big project
and $600 million is pretty serious money, even for the Army
Corps.
If you put that next to the Ike Dike in Texas, the budget
for that is closing on $60 billion. It is 100 times more
expensive to do the Ike Dike project. You could do 100 of those
Louisiana projects. I think in that context it is important
that we come to a sensible commonsense solution and not one
that just says, okay, non-structural is all done here.
Mr. Telle. Senator, I agree with you. I want to make very
clear, General Graham's team's directive to take a harder look
at the non-structural program has not slowed work on the two
pilot projects in Louisiana and New York, the one that you
referenced.
However, I would just say that the early results that I
have been made aware of that program would cause the cost to
escalate far beyond the $600 million amount that you
referenced. Quite frankly, I believe if we did not take a
second look at this, we would be being called before this
committee for waste, you know, inefficiently using taxpayer
dollars.
I think your willingness to work with us to get this, we do
not want to walk away from non-structural solutions and will
always analyze them as alternatives. The question is whether
the United States Army Corps of Engineers is the appropriate
entity to implement them.
Senator Whitehouse. I think I can safely say that both the
Chair and I would like to work with you to get to a sensible
solution that is not no more non-structural. Thank you.
Senator Capito. Thanks.
Senator Cramer?
Senator Cramer. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you to our
witnesses, to both of you.
Let me start out, Mr. Assistant Secretary, by thanking you.
In WRDA 2024, we passed the bill, or the law that required,
required, required the Army to form the Western Water
Cooperation Committee. Added two-plus years of stalling. Oh, by
the way, it was due in 90 days after we passed it, or after it
was implemented.
You stepped in and it got done. I appreciate that. Because
that is part of what we are talking about. Many of these things
we are talking about do not require, with all due respect, a
brand new elevation report. The land has been the same for a
long, long time. Just forming a committee, thank you for doing
that. It means a lot to me that you stepped up and did that.
On the topic we discussed a little bit, generally speaking,
the administration has embraced doing more with less, being
more efficient with the people's money. Not just throwing
personnel and dollars after every challenge, as though somehow
that is going to magically fix things. It is a breath of fresh
air. I am fully supportive of it.
In the past, especially with the Corps, something we have
heard a lot is, we just do not have enough staff to do things.
We give them a whole bunch more staff, and so that means more
lawyers get to read the same thing over and over, more
engineers get to look at the same thing over and over, and
stall longer with regard to the law.
I think the smarter approach is streamlining things and
eliminating unneeded regulations and ultimately reducing the
workload, not just the work force, but your workload.
Specifically, Mr. Secretary, with regard to the Corps, do
you believe that pre-COVID staffing levels are adequate to
deliver a lot of the things you are hearing about today and the
task in front of you?
Mr. Telle. Senator Cramer, thank you for the question.
Thank you for working with us on the Western Water Committee.
I agree with you that a larger bureaucracy does not
necessarily mean better results for the American taxpayer. As
you intelligently point out, the staffing levels within the
United States Army Corps of Engineers mirror the staffing
levels of the United States Army Corps of Engineers prior to
the pandemic.
I believe that with modern technology, with better forms of
cooperation with our non-Federal sponsors, I think about the
project in Fargo, in your State, I think we can deliver more to
the American taxpayers with a staff that looks a whole lot like
the staff prior to the pandemic.
Thank you for addressing that. I think that answered your
question.
Senator Cramer. Thank you for addressing it.
Like I said, let's reduce the workload along with the work
force, because it seems to me there is a lot of redundancy. In
fact, I mean, just listening to the discussion a little bit
ago, well, throughout the morning, I find it frustrating that
years go by, I mean, with regard to just one example in North
Dakota, noxious weeds. WRDA 2020, over 5 years ago I passed a
law that requires a report on how to deal with noxious weeds.
I hear over and over from landowners that border Corps
land, it is over 3 years late, the report. In other words, they
are never going to do it. I am sure it is in some well-
intentioned bureaucrat's pile.
The law did not say, get around to it when you can. What I
was going to say about the nuance of things, when in doubt,
obey the law. It is not--you know, I do not call my wife if I
get picked up for speeding to see what I should do about it. I
slow down. You know, our laws are not arbitrary, they are not
open-ended, they are just, do your best.
A report on noxious weeds, and noxious weeds is a good
example. I am glad you brought up technology. Because the
farmers that farm the land right next to Corps land know
exactly how to do it. You could just have a cup of coffee with
the guy next door and they would tell you exactly how to get
rid of the noxious weeds in a safe manner, because guess what?
The farmers make a living off that land. They are not even just
doing it because the government told them they should. They are
doing it because they have to feed a hungry world and they know
how to do it.
Let's default to yes and that is what I appreciate about
you, Mr. Secretary. You default to what is possible, how do we
do the possible. Okay, that is the law. How creative can we get
within the law to get to yes? The default of the Corps for
decades has been no, we can not do that, even though the law
says you have to do that.
Maybe I will just, General, if you want to speak a minute
or two about the noxious weed issue. I do not know how familiar
you are with it. Really, it is now over 3 years late, that
report. Why is that?
General Graham. Senator Cramer, I believe that report, as
you kind of alluded to, is still under administration review.
We absolutely want to be great neighbors with our partners
up there and leverage every bit of local knowledge that we
have, with the farmers out there, with the tribes out there, so
that we can steward this land for the American people to the
best of our ability.
Senator Cramer. Okay, good. Let's just give more of it back
to the tribes and the farmers and they can steward it really,
really well.
Senator Capito. Senator Merkley?
Senator Merkley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you both for
your partnership on so many important infrastructure questions
or challenges in the west.
In Coos Bay, the stakeholders are working to establish the
first ship-to-rail container port on the U.S. west coast. You
all have been serving as the point for the permitting process
for the channel modification and for coordinating with other
Federal agencies in upgrading the terminal and modernizing the
railroad line.
This is an incredible opportunity to add to our ability to
move freight in a cost-effective fashion. It keeps trucks off
the road and enables us in a growing, interdependent world to
get products to market, supply chains to be effective.
I appreciate that very much, and I appreciate your
operation and efforts on the hatcheries. When the dams were
built, there was a promise made that these dams will be
accompanied by efforts to make sure the fish runs continue.
Those kind of go close to our heart and our soul in the west.
Incredibly important. Of course, the dredging projects that
involve various ports.
Three questions that I am going to get to here, a minute
apiece. It will be kind of rapid fire.
First, it has been 3 years since I met with the Corps down
at the Cole Rivers Hatchery. It became very clear that the
biggest challenge there was the supply of clean water, and
basically the answer was, we need a pipeline that goes further
up the river to bring in cleaner water, we need a better
filtration system.
This hatchery supplies not only to the fish runs on the
Rogue, but also on the Umpqua, also a whole series of lakes in
terms of trout. Incredibly important.
In those 3 years, we have gotten an electric line and six
roofs. To me, that is a 1-year project. Meanwhile, we are
nowhere close to getting the water supply, which is the
critical, essential heart of the hatchery challenge, because
they have had a number of losses of different groups of fish as
a result of contaminated water.
How can we expedite the completion of the renovation of
this essential hatchery?
Mr. Telle. Senator Merkley, thank you for the question, and
understanding the rapid fire request, I would just say, we
agree with you completely on the need to increase our U.S. port
capacity for competitiveness in the 21st century.
With regard to the fish hatchery questions that you raised,
I will defer to General Graham on the details of the progress
there. I would just say that in my review of this issue it is
clear that there are a number of equities implicated, including
hydropower and other interests in your State.
I would defer to General Graham on the complicated nature
of this challenge.
General Graham. Senator Merkley, thank you for that
question. We understand the challenges at Cole River. The
design for that water treatment improvements that you spoke to
is at 85 percent as I checked yesterday. The additional
substation electrical work, the funding is on hand to do that
for a 2026 award.
When I talked to the Portland District about all of the
fish hatcheries that we own that others run, they are all of,
if I had to give them a letter grade, they are all about a C
minus, D plus. The direction I gave the division command up
there is, we need to come up with a long-term capital
reinvestment strategy in those hatcheries.
Senator Merkley. Thank you, and I will just keep pressing,
because this was the deal on the dams, that the hatcheries
would be a very effective complementary component. Watching
them deteriorate and in many places be unable to fulfill the
responsibilities that they have is extremely disturbing. It is
not just an environmental issue, it is an economic issue for
our commercial fisheries, for our sports fisheries, but just
for our whole connection to the ecosystem in the west.
I will keep pressing, and thank you. I just do not think it
should take years to do new roofs and electrical cable. It
should not take forever to design, redesign, and the 85 percent
you referred to, the design work just seems to go on forever.
It is like one can always visit and revisit and revisit, is
this the best design?
At some point you say, listen, this is a plan that enough
people have looked at, let's build the dam pipeline to get the
water there, let's put in the state-of-the-art filtration
system and do it, and start spending the money on
implementation rather than one more design contract. That is my
energy about this, my passion about this.
There is a report that was required in WRDA 2022 on a
deauthorization of hydropower in the Willamette Valley System.
The Portland District and Northwest Division have completed the
report, but it is sitting somewhere and it kind of echoes of my
colleague across the aisle, where is that report sitting? Is it
sitting in OMB? Is it sitting at Army Corps headquarters?
It is very frustrating to see these reports completed and
just nobody ever takes action to say, yes, we will actually
issue it.
Mr. Telle. Senator Merkley, I will take that one. It is
important when we get you information that it speak for the
entirety of the executive branch of government.
With that said, I am committed, and that may take longer
than any of us would hope, but I am committed to following the
law and getting you the report that you referenced as quickly
as we possibly can in coordination with our interagency
partners.
Senator Merkley. Is it on headquarters' desk, or is it on
the [inaudible] desk?
Mr. Telle. Senator Merkley, I do not know with the
particular report that you are referencing where it is within
the interagency. It is important that the entire executive
branch have the ability to speak and give you the right answer,
based on all the information that is needed to gather across
the interagency. We have to be better at delivering that.
Senator Merkley. You will get me an answer, though?
Mr. Telle. Yes, sir.
Senator Merkley. Thank you. I am over time. Just one
sentence, if the Chair will bear with me. You do not have to
respond. I will followup.
WRDA 2020 established provisions for a 15 percent set-aside
of the Harbor Maintenance Trust Fund for emerging ports, of
which we have 14 on the Oregon coast. That guidance that was
required from 2020 has never been released. Let's get it
released. Let's get that 15 percent doing the job that Congress
said it was supposed to be doing.
Thanks.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Before I call on Senator Ricketts, I want to announce that
we are going to do our business meeting that was previously
recessed, we will reconvene at 11:45 in the President's room
off of the Senate floor.
With that, I will go to Senator Ricketts.
Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you, Chairman Capito, and
thank you, Ranking Member Whitehouse, for holding this
important oversight committee meeting for the Army Corps of
Engineers.
Secretary Telle, great to see you again. Congratulations on
your confirmation. Glad you are here on the job.
General, glad to have you here as well. Look forward to
working with you.
I am really pleased to be on this committee, because the
Army Corps serves an important function in my State. When I was
Governor in 2019, Nebraska and the Midwest experienced a
devastating flood that had many of our rivers, but the Missouri
River in particular. Four people lost their lives, farmers lost
$400 million in corn and soybeans, ranchers lost $400 million
in livestock.
Federal authorities estimate the damage to Nebraska alone
was $2.6 billion. I worked closely with the Corps to push for
action. Together with the Governors of Iowa, Kansas, and
Missouri, I partnered with the Corps to launch a planning
assistance to States study, which we actually helped finance.
This effort brought the Corps, Governors and local stakeholders
together to make better informed flood plain management
decisions.
At that time, the relationship with the Corps was rocky.
Too often, Nebraska's concerns were met with only explanations
of why something could not be done, a refrain we heard here
earlier, and were not getting done quickly, or not at all. At
times, I saw the Corps as more of an obstacle than a partner,
and one that failed to put people first in its decisionmaking.
Today is a new opportunity, though, with Secretary Telle
and General Graham leading the change. Yet more than 6 years
later, many issues remain. The $3 million, 3-year planning
assistance study has now taken more than 5 years and it has
cost more than $10 million. This is again a similar refrain
from what we have heard from other people, projects taking
longer and costing more.
Still, it has not changed how the Corps has conducted
business. The study has yet to be finalized, but it is not
clear there is going to be any concrete, actual steps in this
plan for improvement.
Another part of the challenge lies in the 2018 master
manual, which governs the Corps' work on the Missouri River.
The roots of the problem go back to 2004, when amendments to
the 1979 manual reversed the Corps' historical flood control
water management practices.
That shift fundamentally scrambled the Corp's priorities
for basin management. The amendment made environmental
compliance equally as important as protection of human life and
property through flood mitigation. The Corps must refocus its
management of the river on the agency's core values which is
water management for the benefit of those who rely on it for
commerce and protecting people.
Secretary Telle, do you believe the 2018 master manual puts
environmental compliance on the same level as protecting human
life?
Mr. Telle. Senator, I would defer to General Graham on
questions about the manual and the specifics.
I will agree with your broader point. It is one that we
have heard many times already in this hearing, which is these
projects cost too much and take too longer.
I would just, I am proud to report to you that under
President Trump's leadership, the executive branch agencies
that govern the issues that you raise are working to follow the
law, the letter of the law, not beyond what Congress intended
with the law. There have been a number of actions taken with
NEPA, with the definition of Waters of the United States, as
rendered by the Sackett decision, as well as----
Senator Ricketts. I have a limited amount of time, so I
appreciate that.
General, are you familiar with the 2018 master manual?
General Graham. Yes, Senator.
Senator Ricketts. Do you believe that it puts environmental
concerns on the same level as protecting human life?
General Graham. No. We always put life, health, and safety
first of the eight authorized purposes for the Missouri River.
Senator Ricketts. Okay, great. Will you commit that you
will continue to do that?
General Graham. Absolutely.
Senator Ricketts. Great, because that is what we need to
have happening. Because that has not been happening in the
past.
Can you tell me why the planning assistance study is taking
more than 3 years and triple the cost to get done?
General Graham. I can not specifically speak to that, but
oftentimes those planning assistance to States are to provide a
broad overview, and to understand what is going on in those
drainage basins. Then from there, they can take that
information at the State, local, or even at the Federal level
and tear that off into additional studies.
We will confirm with your staff what exactly else they
needed to find out.
Senator Ricketts. Great. Will you commit to getting us that
report in a timely manner?
General Graham. Absolutely.
Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you.
I want to, I have just a few seconds left, but since
Senator Merkley went over, I am going to beg the Chair for a
little indulgence.
Senator Capito. It is all yours.
Senator Ricketts. Thank you.
Really quickly here, critical industries along the Missouri
River must be able to have predictable flows on the Missouri
River. Recently, the Corps' Northwest Division announced that
Gavins Point releases would be set at a minimum of 12,000 cubic
feet per second from December 1st through February 2026,
December 1st of this year through February 2026.
In 2023, when the river levels dropped low, two power
station facilities in Salix, Iowa, were unable to generate
power during an extremely cold stretch of time when we had very
frigid temperatures.
Secretary Telle, will you commit to prioritizing energy
reliability when setting release levels at Gavins Point so we
can avoid disruptions to power generation over the next couple
of years?
Mr. Telle. Senator, absolutely. The Missouri River is one
of the more complex rivers within the portfolio. We have to
balance all interests and all purposes, including flood risk
mitigation and navigation, and as you point out, energy
product.
Senator Ricketts. Great, thanks.
General, what factors are considered in determining whether
updates to the Missouri River mainstream reservoir system
master water control manual are warranted?
General Graham. Senator, specifically, we will get back to
your staff on what would trigger that. Broadly, it is large
changes that we believe have happened in the watershed.
Senator Ricketts. Great. We will followup with you both.
Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Thank you, Madam
Chair, for giving me some time.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Padilla?
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for
the flexibility in our 5 minutes in advance.
[Laughter.]
Senator Capito. I must be in a really good mood today. I do
not know.
[Laughter.]
Senator Padilla. I want to begin by coming back to an item
that General, you spoke to in your opening comments, that of
the proposed new 35 percent design standard required for
feasibility study approval. I understand the rationale behind
the effort, but I do worry, and I think you share the concern,
that larger projects will get stuck in a Catch-22, where they
can not move forward without significant more resources up
front while the Army Corps budget does not actually provide
those necessary resources.
I am worried that this could lead to a situation where the
Army Corps simply stops doing any more big projects, and there
is a number truly needed across the Country, projects that are
critical to protecting life and property of our constituents.
We just celebrated the 20th anniversary, for lack of a
better term, of Hurricane Katrina, the devastation to the
people in Louisiana. I imagine a new standard like this would
have delayed the project to restore the communities out there
for years and years and years. That was a $14 billion levee
repair.
General Graham, for feasibility studies that lead to larger
water resource projects costing more than $500 million, will
the current annual budget for the investigations account
support the level of design spending without causing multi-year
delays? Or what is your ideal proposal on how to address that
dynamic?
General Graham. Senator Padilla, thank you for that
question. Whenever your Senator gig kind of finishes up, we are
hiring. We are always looking for some MIT mechanical engineers
to join the team.
Senator Padilla. There you go.
General Graham. Sir, you know well that the path to
delivering quality projects on schedule within budget is to
think through them carefully during this design phase. Line up
the funding, and then build them rapidly with a team of expert
builders. That is just what we have not been doing.
We do need to figure out with the investigations budget and
the workload we have on very complex studies how that would
break out so that we can deliver those studies efficiently for
these large things. The Corps had been criticized in the past,
many decades ago, for, we were not looking system-wide, we were
looking at small projects scattered around.
Wisely, we were given direction from Congress and support
from the administration to start looking at larger systems. We
have done that. Coastal Texas is a great example. Same thing
with projects up in New York City.
With that, we have to figure out a way to both break those
down into manageable, implementable pieces that we can advance
the engineering far enough that we know what it is we are
proposing to build. Those also have to be budgetable. Fifty-two
billion dollars on a billion and a half construction budget,
that is probably going to be infeasible.
We have to square both those circumstances.
Senator Padilla. I understand. I have a little bit of a
close ``in'' to California, by the way, not just Louisiana and
New York.
You referenced in your opening remarks some nuances that
are important to recognize. Would you consider any exceptions
to the 35 percent design standard requirement for large
projects? There are future projects and there are projects that
are sort of underway right now.
Is there any grandfathering considered before this new
standard is imposed?
General Graham. Secretary Telle's guidance to us is, make
sure you are applying common sense as we are going through that
analysis. Senator, that is our commitment to you, is that we
are going to apply common sense as we go through this. The goal
being to deliver these projects as efficiently and effectively
to protect your citizens and to make sure that our navigation,
and just particularly, like the Port of Long Beach, that
amazing economic engine continues to run well.
Senator Padilla. Right, because there are ripple effects.
All right, thank you for that. Definitely will be doing
some followup with you.
Secretary Telle, I wanted to, before I ask you about the
harbor maintenance tax conversation we had previously, I just
want to express my condolences on the loss of your father
recently. I appreciate your willingness to be here and continue
the work during a difficult time. Please convey that with your
family as well.
Now, as you and I spoke during your confirmation process,
the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach are the busiest
container port complex in the western hemisphere. I appreciated
the commitment you made at the time, not just to me but to the
committee, to uphold the donor and energy port funding as
directed by WRDAs of 2020 and 2022.
However, since your confirmation hearing and before you
were sworn in, the administration released its Fiscal Year 2025
work plan for the U.S. Army Corps as well as the budget
proposal for Fiscal Year 2026. Neither document reflects the
increased funding targets for donor and energy ports that
Congress directed.
To put it mildly, that is troubling. Can you assure me and
this committee that the WRDA 2020 set-aside of 12 percent of
harbor maintenance trust fund obligations for donor and energy
ports will be honored?
Mr. Telle. Senator Padilla, thank you for the question. We
will follow the law. The Fiscal Year 2025 work plan and the
Fiscal Year 2026 President's budget include $58 million in
keeping with that set-aside and in keeping with the
appropriations acts that have been enacted by Congress. They
govern those fiscal years.
Senator Padilla. For my constituents watching from home, is
that a yes or a no?
Mr. Telle. I am just telling you that the Fiscal Year 2025
work plan and the Fiscal Year 2026 President's budget both
include $58 million, which is consistent with the
appropriations acts enacted by Congress.
Senator Padilla. By my simple math, that does not add up to
the 12 percent that we had previously discussed.
Mr. Telle. Senator, your math is correct.
Senator Padilla. That Congress had directed.
Mr. Telle. Your math is correct, Senator. That is the level
set by the appropriations acts for those fiscal years.
Senator Padilla. It is not living up to the requirement. I
understand the position that you are in, but we obviously have
some work to do.
Mr. Telle. Senator, we follow the laws that are proposed by
this committee and the Appropriations Committee.
Senator Padilla. All right. The Chairwoman has been more
than generous with me. I will do some followup questions for
the record on the Pajaro Flood Protection Project and other
important issues for my State.
Thank you both very much.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Senator Sullivan?
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair, and Mr.
Secretary, thank you for being here, and General, thank you for
being here.
You both have a really, really critical job, I think one of
the most important jobs in government. I think you are doing a
great job and I am going to get to that on some of the things
you have been doing in Alaska.
I do want to remind you of the context. You have seen this
chart before. This was the 70 executive orders that the Biden
administration issued singularly, exclusively focused on
Alaska, what we called the last frontier lockup. You look, they
have the actual list of them, the seven zero right there. Those
are executive orders and executive actions. No State got
sanctioned more by their own Federal Government than we did in
Alaska by the Biden administration.
I like to do this in public a lot because those days are
over, right? We have a new EO. That was the Alaska lockup. This
is the Alaska comeback and you are very familiar with this
executive order. This is day one. The Trump administration
issued an executive order called Unleashing Alaska's
Extraordinary Resource Potential.
We are the only State in the Country that has our own EO.
It was issued on the day of the President's inauguration. The
Corps of Engineers, as you know, Secretary Telle, is
highlighted in that EO in a really big way.
The part on the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Civil
Works, now I am reading the EO, shall immediately review,
revise, rescind any agency action that may in any way hinder,
slow, or otherwise delay any critical project in Alaska. During
your confirmation hearing, do you remember what you said to me
about that executive order and that paragraph in particular?
Mr. Telle. Senator Sullivan, I indicated to you that I had
tattooed that paragraph of that executive order on my heart.
Senator Sullivan. Yes. You tattooed that on your heart. I
have to admit that was one of the best answers I have heard in
a confirmation hearing in a long time. You are doing that. I
very much appreciate that.
Let me compliment you on the really important work that you
did when we had another glacial lake outburst flood in Juneau,
Alaska. Actually this was the worst, but it was not as bad
because the Corps of Engineers had acted quickly at my request
this past spring on getting those Hesco barriers to help
prevent flooding.
You also surged Brigadier General Goetz to Alaska for a
whole week, and his team. They gave Juneau a lot of comfort. We
have a lot of work to do.
Can I get your commitment, and General, your commitment
that we are not just going to study this. The people of Juneau
are having flooding every summer. By the way, last summer and
this summer, it is amazing nobody has gotten killed. We need to
get on this soon.
Can I get your commitment and any other updates you want to
give me on that?
I appreciate you surging a high-level team for a week in
Alaska to be in Juneau when this happened again. We need a
Corps of Engineers solution to this. I appreciate your focus on
it.
Mr. Telle. Senator Sullivan, thank you for emphasizing the
importance of this challenge. Your leadership helped guide our
decisionmaking. I have committed to you--let me also say I am
just so proud of the United States Army Corps of Engineers,
General Goetz, his team, the Alaska District, for the work that
they did in real time to save lives and property in Juneau,
Alaska, in mid-August.
I have committed to you and General Graham has committed to
me that we are going to be focused on a long, medium, and short
term solution to address this challenge. The short-term
solution is what you saw in August, and you are going to see it
again as long as we need it while we are developing the medium
and long-term solutions. I will let General Graham comment on
the progress on the medium and longer term solutions.
General Graham. Senator Sullivan, this is what we are built
for. Being able to take a complex situation and work with our
State and local partners to put a project in place rapidly. As
you saw with General Goetz up there, that is what we are
committed to.
I know there is a smaller outburst happening kind of as we
speak. They are working again with the city on, I think they
held off on repairing some of the existing Hesco barriers until
this finishes. The technical report that we will look at laid
the foundation for a long-term fix. We expect that next spring,
and we will watch that closely as that work unfolds.
That work that we are doing is going to be with all the
partners who across the government at all levels has the
ability to add to the solution. That is our commitment to you.
Senator Sullivan. Great. I appreciate that. I know the
people of Juneau really appreciate that. It is so important.
Madam Chair, do I have----
Senator Capito. Let me ask you a question. Have you voted
on this----
Senator Sullivan. I am going to vote right after this one.
Senator Capito. Okay.
Senator Sullivan. Very quickly, just two more quick
questions.
Relating to this EO, I met with the company that is working
on a really exciting project in Alaska. It is called Graphite
One outside of Nome. They are concerned that even though they
were put on the docket, it is a graphite mine, one of the
largest mine deposits in the world, in Alaska, that they were
put on a Fast 41 as an EA and we are hearing that the Alaska
District is maybe putting them on as an EIS.
Can you gentlemen take a look at that? That seems to go
against the Trump executive order and maybe even more
importantly Sackett v. EPA, the recent Supreme Court case.
Mr. Telle. Senator, absolutely. This is something we take
very seriously and I will just report to you that we have
guidance in place now to implement Sackett on a temporary basis
while we wait for a permanent rule to implement that Supreme
Court decision.
I will also tell you that through nationwide permits which
this committee has afforded the United States Army Corps of
Engineers, regional permits, and good old-fashioned elbow
grease, President Trump has delivered more than, or close to
800 permits for energy-related and resource-related activities,
including approximately 10 percent of those in the State of
Alaska in the first 9 months of his administration.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you.
Final question, very quick. Port of Nome. I always put this
chart up as well. Lot of action in Alaska. We have Russian and
Chinese incursions into our airspace, Russian and Chinese
incursions into our waters. Four incursions just in August. The
Port of Nome is going to be critical for Alaska economic
activity, but also for infrastructure for national security
assets.
The Corps awarded a nearly $400 million contract for phase
one of the Port of Nome expansion. This is a crucial step to
establishing our infrastructure in the Arctic for our economy
but also for our national security.
Can I get your commitment, gentlemen, to continue on beyond
phase one, which is a huge phase? We are building the Port of
Nome. We have been trying to get this done for 15 to 20 years.
We are building it, thanks to your leadership; $400 million
contract awarded on phase one.
To continue that as a key issue for the Corps going
forward, even beyond phase one, General, Mr. Secretary, can I
get your commitment on that?
General Graham. Senator, you absolutely have our
commitment. We are also looking for more sources of rock up in
Alaska that can bring the construction costs down. You
absolutely have our commitment to the Port of Nome.
Senator Sullivan. Great.
Mr. Secretary?
Mr. Telle. Senator, of course.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Senator Alsobrooks?
Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you so much to Madam Chair Capito
and also Ranking Member Whitehouse for calling today's hearing.
I would like to also say thank you so much to our witnesses
for joining us.
Mr. Secretary, in particular, I want to thank you for
visiting Poplar Island in Maryland, and seeing the important
ecosystem restoration work that the Army Corps is doing in
Maryland.
As you saw, the Army Corps' mission in Maryland is
important and far-reaching, and the Corps is responsible for
dredging near the Port of Baltimore, for undertaking large-
scale ecosystem projects like Mid Bay and Poplar Island and for
beach nourishment to protect our coastal communities. I am
really glad that you had the opportunity.
As you know, the Corp manages over 4,300 recreation areas
across the Nation, including one on the Maryland-West Virginia
border. These recreation areas support local economies and
provide opportunities for boating, fishing and hiking. In fact,
nearly 212,000 boats are registered in Maryland, and boating
remains one of the most popular recreational activities at
Corps managed sites nationwide.
The administration's hiring freeze prevented the Corps from
hiring seasonal staff who play an essential role in keeping
these sites safe, open and well-maintained. Without them, we
saw closures, reduced hours, and limited services at recreation
areas.
Senator Cramer and I sent a letter urging the Corps to take
immediate steps to exempt seasonal workers from the
administration's hiring freeze. I was glad to hear that the
Secretary of the Army subsequently granted the Corps and
exemption to hire up to 320 staff for Corps recreation areas.
Either of you can answer, but I wanted to check in, and
maybe, Mr. Secretary, you can start. How many of the 320
authorized seasonal employees was the Corps able to hire?
Mr. Telle. Senator, thank you for raising this issue. Thank
you for suggesting that I go see Poplar Island. It was
enlightening, and I appreciate that suggestion.
You are correct that we had a shortage of recreational
workers heading into the spring. Thanks to your work and
Senator Cramer's work and to the administration's very quick
reaction to that, we were granted an exception to policy on
hiring. We have been working against that denominator that you
referenced approaching 100 employees that have been hired for
recreation facilities.
We expect that by next spring that we will be at a point
where we will not have any impacts, or minimal impacts, as it
relates to the challenge we faced this spring.
Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you.
Now, I also would like to know whether you expect the
Federal hiring freezes, do you expect it to affect the work
such as eco-restoration, and what procedures have you put in
place to monitor and assess the impact of work force reductions
on other authorized activities of the Civil Works program?
Mr. Telle. Senator, I am not aware of any impacts on the
Corps of Engineers three core missions of flood risk
mitigation, navigation and aquatic ecosystem restoration.
Senator Alsbrooks. Okay. Now, the Atlantic Coast of
Maryland Shoreline Protection Project is a longstanding effort
to protect Ocean City and nearby areas from coastal storm
damage, flooding, and erosion. It is managed by the Army Corps,
and the project includes engineered beaches and dune systems
spanning nearly seven miles over a 50-year period.
Now, these systems have proven effective and have prevented
about $927 million in storm-related damages since the 1900's,
and supporting our tourism economy. This project relies on
periodic beach nourishment, with the next cycle originally
scheduled for late 2025 to mid-2026. However, the replenishment
has been delayed and is now not expected to begin until
September 2026.
I wonder whether you can speak to the cause of this delay.
Mr. Telle. Senator Alsobrooks, thank you for raising this
issue.
You mentioned in your opening remarks that quite often, the
dredged material that comes from places like the channel that
services the Port of Baltimore can be used for beneficial
purposes, including beach renourishment, which is really about
protecting coastal communities from coastal storm risk.
You are correct: the project in Ocean City that you
referenced, as you correctly referenced, has a 4-year
replenishment cycle. The last time it was renourished was in
2022. That puts us on schedule for 2026.
I will defer to General Graham about any delays or causes
for delay. I am not aware of any.
Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you. General, maybe you can just
say whether you foresee whether a 1-year delay, what impact
might that have on the overall effectiveness of the project.
General Graham. The Coastal Storm Risk Management Project,
Senator, that we do many of the beach renourishment projects,
we are working with Mother Nature. She is awfully variable. We
have this periodic renourishment schedule, but sometimes the
beaches erode, sometimes they accrete, as the storms move.
There is a lot of variables that go into that.
Senator Alsbrooks. All right, thank you.
I yield. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you very much.
With no further questions, I would like to thank the
witnesses and all of my colleagues for their participation in
today's hearing. Senators who wish to submit written questions
for the record have until 5 p.m. on Wednesday, October 1st, to
do so. The witnesses' responses to these questions are due back
to the committee no later than close of business Wednesday,
October 15th, and will be submitted to the record.
I am going to run out here because we are on a vote and I
do not want to hold us up on the floor. Do not take that as any
reflection on gratitude for you all coming. Quickly, I know you
have been in the position for a short period of time, but we
want to stay close with the Corps and we want to stay close
with the projects.
Thank you very much. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:26 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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